Vob Committee & Council - Regular Meeting

And I will call this rules meeting, rules committee meeting to order at 6 p.m. Can we have a roll call?

Schaffner. Present. Carroll. Here. McLean.

Here. Also in attendance, we have Fiscal Officer Brian Bibler, Village Administrator Matt Neiheiser, Police Chief Brett Rogers. Village Solicitor Jeff Fico, Mayor Rick Ellis, and Council People. Gar Phillips and Brandy. So I need a approval of June 22nd, 2026. I'll make a motion. I'll second. Meeting minutes.

Carol McLean.

Yes. Yes. You weren't here for June 22nd.

You were, you were, you were excused. You were at the last meeting. You want to abstain? Well, you weren't here for the rules meeting either.

I guess I wasn't.

You weren't. That was the one I called you and you came.

Oh, that's the one.

Oh, yeah.

It's okay. The meeting was over. Yeah. Okay. It's okay. So I abstained.

Sorry about that. Yeah. Ron, anything to say to the rules committee? No. Okay. Thank you. All right. So old business, codification of ordinances overlapping with code sections. Okay.

Is it still?

Yes, keep it on.

Okay.

All right. Anything anybody want to say about that? Philip, you look so distinguished tonight.

That's how I dress for every council meeting.

All right. Proposal to amend Chapter 804. And I think this... this was something that i think you were going to look into okay so keep that on and then uh chapter 220 of the codified ordinance all right now first of all i just want to say that i would swear At one time, the rules of council held all the dates and times of our committee meetings. But it's not in here now, so I don't know.

That's established.

If I'm confused or if it got taken out. But I don't see it in here anywhere. Philip and Jamie, did you guys get a chance to look at the rules of council at all? Briefly. 2020. So the only thing I have on this is on page, and I think we've talked about this in previous years and I don't remember what the decision was, but page, it would be page 18. At the end of the page number four, duties of committee chairperson. Everything on this list is something that the fiscal officer does, not the committee chairperson. It's page 18. Going by the numbers on the top right hand, there's numbers on the bottom left, a different number, and then there's... Back on the first page?

That'll get out of order. I don't know. Maybe mine's out of order. I only got 17.

is that what you're at committee chairperson so well a well actually I always thought the mayor appointed the vice chairperson but I'm not sure about that be received from the village administrator all items for consideration by the committee with the assistance of village administrator prepare an agenda like we don't do the agenda no we prepare for you So does that need to be fixed? No.

But you can always call in and say, hey, I want this added to the agenda. All right.

And then I'm just going to throw this out here. I know it's not going to be a popular thing for me to say, but I'm just going to say it anyway. On page 20, order of business. I'm sorry, number C agenda, number five order of business. This is basically the agenda order. I would like to remove oral or silent prayer. It's not comfortable for a lot of people who walk in here and don't realize they're going to have to say the Lord's Prayer. We don't know what religious affiliation they are. There's a certain degree of concern for church verses.

That will not be popular. I would go everything against that. but I'm not on that committee, so it's up to you guys.

So that is my only, oh wait, there isn't something else. Okay, page 22. Item number three, suspension of rules. I question this only because I'm pretty sure that it's happened. Suspension of rules regarding reading of ordinances or resolutions. So we're talking about waiving the three readings. When a motion is properly made and seconded to suspend the rule requiring reading at three separate meeting days, no debate shall be permitted on the motion.

I'd be able to debate it, right?

You debate after.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, but this is saying there is no debate permitted on the motion.

Yeah, just on that. Just on the motion to suspend.

I don't like that because, I mean, and I've done it. I have questioned just here a couple weeks ago. I questioned why we were passing something as an emergency.

That's just a question. That's not a debate.

says who no it's just a question are you debating well those are my things i don't know like if you guys have looked at these or um and i also don't know i can't really to be honest with you i can't remember jeff these things do we Okay, so let's first of all just say, I think we just probably ought to keep this on the agenda for another time for you guys to have the time to look it over a little bit closer to make sure that there's nothing that you would like to change as well.

So for this one, the number three, page 22, number three, suspension of the rules, that's merely just to debate whether we should suspend the rules or not right so it's not the actual whatever is being proposed right the three readings part yeah that's the way what would you debate though is I guess yeah whether or not it's whether or not it's an emergency I think that's where our way I take it we have a discussion over it though don't we no

It's not on the motion to suspend. Well, I'm going to ask Jeff. Jeff is currently blocked. And then after a second.

So it's just a matter of when we talk about it.

Yeah. That's it. What's it?

It's when you talk about it. So do you need a discussion on whether you can make a motion or not?

Make the motion, and if the motion passes, then have a discussion on what the vote should be. When a motion is properly made, and seconded to suspend the three reading rule, no debate shall be permitted on the motion.

I see what she's saying now. It sounds like you can't talk about it.

So you're proposing to change that then?

Well, I mean, I know I've done it. I have actually done it. I mean, I have questioned why something is an emergency. If that's not what it's referring to, then fine.

I absolutely understand what you're saying because I know several instances, whether it was Phil or you or another one of us that have done exactly that. Why are we, I think Rick has as well. Why are we trying to get this through so quickly?

And it's commonly done. I agree. It's commonly done. Because one of the points of contention is, why are we doing everything on an emergency basis? So why not let it go through its normal process of having three readings?

Do you know what the point of this was? There must be some sort of point.

Is it just to clear up the agenda?

instead of done a couple times just to get it off the agenda because it was my new little things yeah when when we initially came on to village council we actually went to a conference or a meeting up in columbus that was all about the a lot of was related yeah we should be able to talk what you say what you're saying is right yeah there should be a discussion why but but i feel like we do talk about that don't we i mean

I mean, I'm trying to think.

Is there some sort of a drawback to taking it off that you can think of?

No, not really. I mean. Or to amend that language to allow a discussion on the motion? Yes. A discussion?

I will, yeah. Following this motion?

Yeah, I think that's reasonable.

So I think for right now, maybe we should just. hold off until you guys get a chance to maybe do this a little bit closer and make sure that the things that I have said, whether you agree with them or not agree with them, give you time to think about it, and then we can address it at the next rules meeting, because it's nothing that has to be done right away.

So you want to waive the three readings rule? No, I'm kidding.

But that makes sense, though, what she's saying. We just change the language. That's all.

I think that that is all. Do we have any new business rules committee tonight? If not, I guess we can adjourn. The next meeting will be held on the fourth Monday in August, which is August 24th at 6 p.m. Matt, do you have an extra?

You want to?

charges motion second an extra what second all in favor who's second I who's second I did okay I did it with a wink okay before we do no I'm not okay I need help my I've been on this today and it turned my screen I am an apple person I do not know how to stand on your head brandy no because I can't Anybody?

Oh, for last week? Or last month? Is it just upside down, Brandon? Right.

Yeah, there's a keystroke. Thank you. Okay. It would seem like it would be you. See, I would just take it and start flipping it around.

No, I'm good.

any of these committees I wasn't speeding. No, not me.

We're still alive. They're speaking anyway. You probably had cars going around you.

Yeah, I think it's a friend.

Yeah, just FYI, we're still alive.

Sorry for the delay. the Safety Committee meeting to order. It is exactly 615. First roll call please.

McCurry. Present. Schaffner.

Present. Carroll.

Present.

Great. Also in attendance we have Mayor Rick Ellis, we have the VA Matt Neuheiser, Police Chief Brett Rogers, Fiscal Officer Brian Bibler, and we also have Gar Phillips in attendance. as well as Phil McLean, and we have two visitors also. Approval of the minutes for the April meeting, please.

I will move to approve the minutes.

All right. All in favor? Aye.

Aye.

Visitors this evening, we have Mr. Bibler, Mr. Holton. All right. 2026 goals, zero workplace accidents as well as zero fatal accidents. Still zero. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Would like to have we have two reports and in just a minute Mr. Anheuser will give his VA report I Have nothing to report Okay That's what I apologize for all right. Well, thank you. All right, Police Department I

from finishing up from the HVAC at the shoot house and the training house and other than that my email was hacked so I sent out about 8 million emails to everyone in the world and got 9 million back so but it's been taken care of at least as far as stopped or whatever but other than that getting ready for school to start when does it start?

12th

Wow, that seems early to me.

August?

Yeah. Doesn't that seem early to you guys? Also, we're getting ready for a festival and a national night out with the Sheriff's Department and Lancaster Police. It's going to be at Johnson Park on the 4th from 5 to 7. So it's just a kickball, tug-of-war, water fight, fighting between kids and cops. That sounds great.

All right.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, thank you, Chief.

Old business, we don't have any. New business on the agenda first, electric fences.

Well, that's about the... Do you have anything on electric fences?

I mean, I don't know if the chief wants to take it, but we had a lady, Mrs. Ward was in here last council meeting, addressed council about a letter she received about her dogs being off-leash or not restrained in any way or contained within a fence. So she had lots of questions about her electric fence, and I... I believe that's why that's on the agenda.

She made the statement that night that she had never, nobody had ever complained about her animals. Is that true? Chief would know better than me.

No, that's not true. Okay. Complaints about barking. Okay. Complaints that not do it well. Okay.

In reading through this, to me, an electric fence is not a fence that confines. So the language, I believe, is missing. An electric fence is not meant to physically confine a dog. I think if anybody knows me and you follow me on Facebook, I am constantly posting about dogs needing homes and following up on. There are so many dogs that are found with their collars on, whether the battery or whatever is low. They do not keep a dog necessarily within. But let's also then talk about you can have anyone can walk into your yard and confinement is meant to protect people as well as the dog.

So I say it just stands as it is. I don't think we need to make any changes.

So yeah, I think they need to be confined. So then it comes to enforcement.

I mean, so just a question then the, the people that have invisible fences, but don't have a dog that escapes.

I think the invisible fence is where you can be out in the yard with your pet and your pet doesn't have to be on a leash. But if you're just letting your dog out and you go back in the house... Yeah, that's not...

But the question is, unless that dog gets out, I mean...

There's less of a chance.

I guess the question is if somebody just calls and says, hey, my neighbor has an electric fence. I want you to come over here and give her a ticket. Is that going to happen? Or is it because of some sort of infraction that a dog got loose and bit somebody or something like that?

of the barn if you wait until it bites them.

And that's what we had happen, which brought this up a year or so ago. So yeah, I mean, if somebody has one, I mean, as long as that lulls on the books,

So should we, I guess my question then is should we, if we know people with electric fences, should we notify them that this is?

Well, that's how this started.

That's how this started on this particular one was with a letter saying, hey, just to let you know, that's not.

how this got started. So right now it is in violation. So that's what it was all about. So yeah, if they're notified, then they gotta do something.

So somebody, so I'm still just not clear. So somebody has, like, somebody has, I know, an invisible fence around Coomler. Are they going to get a ticket tomorrow because they have one or is it one of those things where, you know, the grass, we're supposed to mow the grass, but we didn't really know what this was, you know, so we're going to let go until next week or I don't know. I mean, I guess my point is as far as enforcement is concerned. Does that mean are we going to notify these people that that's not enough? Or are we going to wait until it all gets out?

Well, I think we almost have to wait until something happens. Until somebody calls.

They don't notify us when they've got an electric fence.

I don't know who's got an electric fence and who doesn't.

It's not that we're going to drive around and look for it.

Or maybe posting something on Facebook. How about that?

You could do that. But to your point, we're not going around looking for that. Right. But if we see it and... someone calls and says, hey, these dogs run out to the sidewalk and bark and whatever, and we go and they say, well, I've got a visible fence. No, then they're going to be told they need to correct that problem or they'll be cited.

As a person who walks all the time, as I know some of us do in here as well, when I had my dog Buster, he was attacked four different times. He was on a leash. But he was attacked four different times by four different dogs. And that's why if you've ever seen me post anything about leashes and fences save lives. They save the people from getting bit, the dog from getting hit. But there is an issue here sometimes in this village with dogs not being on leash or behind a fence, especially if it's a more, what I wanna say. aggressive dog and I had a dog that I had to have on leash so I've owned the dogs that needed a fence I've owned the dogs that needed to be on leash so and accidents do happen but we try to we need to try to do our due diligence to make sure that if you are an owner of a dog who would benefit from a fence and a leash, we need to be responsible owners.

That's what I'm going to say. I feel like if we post something, if we're going to do this on a case-by-case basis, if you do put something public, like, I'm not afraid to say it, but if you put something on Facebook, you're opening Pandora's box, just like we did with the state mandate that you have to have a permit for a hot water tank. We're not the hot water tank police. We're not going to be the electric fence police.

I just think if it was me and I had an electric fence for my dog, that I would want to know that I was in violation. Because it would not occur to me naturally that that would be in violation. They will be notified.

You're not going to say, okay, here's your fine. When we know about it.

Yeah, and we didn't do that to her.

And just, you know, you know who you're talking about when you're talking about they're just, like I said, my dog. My dog needed to be with a fence and a leash. I tried to be a responsible owner, and I think that that's important.

And I think, too, as I'm doing code enforcement, again, most of that's with the exception of high grass. Most of that's not driving around the village looking for things. But while we're driving around the village, if I drive by and see a dog in the front yard with no owner, I can call the police chief or I can knock on the door and we can ask the question.

So if the owner's there, it's not an issue?

Well, it still has to be restrained.

Wait a minute. Now, if I'm out in the yard with my dog in my property and he's not on a leash, that's going to be a problem?

No, no. If he goes at somebody. If they see you. If somebody's out in their yard and their dog's in their yard, you're not going to stop and say, do you have an electric fence?

I'm not going to say that. But that doesn't mean the letter of the law either. Right.

No, I understand that. Well, any time I open my gate to go out of my fence, then I'm

technically kind of my dogs no longer contained for that second that the gates open I know I'm taking it to an extreme I think comparably this is similar to to the situation when we talked about water heaters right I think this is very similar we can compare those two situations is that responsible ownership whether it's your hot water heater or your dog i mean we know what we need to be doing and yeah yeah i mean i feel like i feel like most people are responsible dog owners i i

Listen, I got a fence and locks and gates and everything else, and that dog of mine gets out on a monthly basis, because he finds a way to get out, you know what I mean?

Again, here we go.

Stick out. If my dog is on a chain, and they're screwed into the ground, those things, those are fine. Even though dogs pull those out of the ground all the time.

It's still tethered. I mean, you know. Again, I think chief is the best one to answer these. In reading this, though, I mean, we can sit here and read through all of this and accept when a dog is lawfully engaged in hunting and accompanied by the owner, keeper, harborer, or handler of the dog, no owner, keeper, or harborer of any dog shall fail at any time to do either of the following. Keep the dog physically confined or restrained upon the premises of the owner, keeper or harborer by a leash, tether, adequate fence, supervision, or secure enclosure to prevent escape. Number two, keep the dog under the reasonable control of some person. That's what this states.

And Council previously said it's not an affirmative defense to say you have an electric fence.

I was not present at that meeting when the... This was a year ago when Oh, yeah. No, I think because if you're talking about it doesn't provide a secure enclosure is what the...

Reasonable controls were, I think, different. It's like how we define that. Yeah.

Does your dog come when you call? Are they trained? I'm using that as an example. Mine doesn't.

That's why I use a leash. Sexy. I mean, that's what... But I understand because it's your dog.

Run the line. Yep.

My dog definitely would do that. But he's a bird dog. That's what they do.

So were we just discussing this, wanting to change the language to... I think the emphasis, everything's here.

No, I think she just wanted... If I remember correctly... Clarification. Clarification. Yeah, everything's... When she was here, she just wanted to know the reason... Why?

And then I think council decided to kick in the safety to look into it.

Just to discuss it. To me, everything's here. Anybody have any?

So it's really, I mean, I think I disagree with it, but, like, I mean, I'm not on this committee, but I think it comes down to officer discretion. Is that right, Chief? Kind of.

Not really. I mean. reasonable control and that's what is happening and I guess once again

in June there was a dog that was running over at Basel Park and I was with my walking group so very large breed not very friendly but I was okay with it I kind of knew where this dog belonged and I guided it back home but had it been a child yeah so And, you know, I told the people that.

And they had an electric collar? Or you don't know?

No.

So, and it had crossed 256. And I only knew because, again, I probably know the dogs and cats better than the people sometimes because I pay attention. That's true. But I knew exactly where this dog belonged. And it actually chased a woman and her dog inside of an apartment. So... That dog, I told them, your dog needs to be on a leash. You should not be letting your dog out. It's one I could have called, I could have reported, but it went home and so, anyways.

So what's the standard, may I? I'm sorry. No, no. They get basically a warning or a notification?

Yeah, just get a notification.

And then they just buy a chain or put up a fence? Yeah, one or the other.

I mean, it's up to them to figure out how they want to do it after that. You know what I mean?

But like this one, it's just a notification.

then we would go back and see if that happened after 10 days or whatever, see what's going on.

Thank you. I was the one that referred it to committee, and I just wanted to discuss it and have it clarified. Thank you.

All right. All right. Last under new business, resolution 202623. I'll have Jeff explain this one. Okay.

District. The village is asked to do that every so many years. I believe it's every four or five years.

And we participate, we're one of the counties that participates in that solid waste district. And so the group meets periodically, comes up at some times with new rules, and asks everybody to rejoin that district. And so that's where we're

And in reading that, is that something that's going to need to bypass the three reading rule? Okay. I'll sponsor that.

I encourage you to sponsor.

And just a house.

Are you making a motion to take it to council? Yes. I'd like to move that to council, please. I need a second.

I'll second it.

Okay.

Brian, I don't believe that we pay, the village pays any fees to participate.

No, no. And you said the basic reason is they redraw the map?

They renew it. They renew it, okay. Every so many years. Okay.

Roll call. All in favor of taking this to council? Aye.

Aye. Okay. All right, so I don't believe there's anything else. Any other new business?

Yeah, I'd like to bring something up.

Okay.

take it to council and vote on it. A few months ago, we put logos on all the vehicles in the village, on all the trucks. Village of Baltimore. One vehicle continues not to have that on there. They were stenciled on the doors. This final vehicle had magnetic signs for months. Today, I noticed the magnetic signs are gone. So I would like to send that over to council and vote on that vehicle having it stenciled on the doors like the rest of the fleet.

Okay. So this is something you're requesting to take up. You don't feel that executive session is appropriate?

We can do an executive session however or whatever you want to do.

That doesn't sound like it to me. It's not an executive session. Okay. All right, so discuss logos on the vehicles, one in particular that needs to have stenciled on or a magnetic sign.

Stenciled on. Stenciled on. Not magnetic. Magnetic seems to disappear. Stencil does not.

You want the vinyl letters on the doors is what you want.

Can I just mention that when we get into council, I was going to ask an executive position. time it's not just about that but it's okay so I guess if we could personal issues

Okay. So we'll ask. Okay. So I think that's all. Is there anything else? All right. So it sounds like that we'll discuss later. Okay. So if there is nothing else, our next meeting will be August 24th at 630 or immediately following rules. Anyone move to adjourn?

I second.

so we are adjourned

Okay, let's see. Carol? Foreman? Here. McCreary? Here. McLean?

Here.

Phillips?

Here.

Selfner?

Present.

Okay, can we get approval of the agenda?

You don't need to approve the agenda.

Okay. To review the impervious surface regulations, what we'd like to do is Mr. Foreman has found a video in reference to this.

I made a video, and this video clearly demonstrates that this policy doesn't really solve why it might, and that some of the policies of council have made it worse.

And it's just one example.

There's examples all over town, but, you know, This is a really good example because it's one I know well. So Brian has a video and he's going to play it. And then we'll go to questions. I'll narrate it a little bit.

Yeah. So I guess, why is he going first? Oh.

Well, you didn't have to go first.

No, I just was wondering.

It might answer some of the questions that some of the people have, too.

I don't have to go first, I can go last, but it seems silly to go last if I've got something to present.

They may have something to present as well.

Other people can go while we're rebooting, but it looks like he's there. And that water coming into that storm drop is all the water that falls on my house. I'll be the first to acknowledge that most of the houses in town probably aren't connected like this, but mostly because we haven't provided the infrastructure for it. Now, as I go around the corner, you can see all this water on the street running right over here. There's a manhole right over there to the left where all this water is going. All this water has been forced out into the street because of this sidewalk that I was required to build. all this water used to roll off the edge of the street into the grass around the curve and into that storm drop that I just had on the video instead of going across the street to where there's a manhole. And so you can also see all the erosion caused on the street because of the sidewalk. And so I guess this is just my point that some of these blanket policies aren't really a good idea. I think there's, my reason for being on council was to eliminate the I and I problem And if this did anything to help contribute to solving the I&I problem, I would be all for it. It doesn't. It just absolutely doesn't. And this is an example. The sidewalk is blocking all that storm water from getting into that storm structure that it had always gone into. And you can see from the beginning of it, all the water that falls on the impervious house is being directed right into a storm structure. So that's not ending up in your sewer plant, in your sanitary. So there are a lot of houses who have a lot of their sump pump and other things going into the sanitary. And in most cases, it's because we haven't provided something like this. This solves the I&I problem. But a lot of the I&I comes from old manholes that are brick, and they're literally collecting all of the water that falls on the dirt around them like a stormwater collection facility. And all the new ones are sealed, they don't do that. But the old ones leak like a sieve, and all the water that falls in people's yards where there's a mantle like that winds up going straight into that mantle. And so this is why I'm against the policy. I don't think anybody can give me any evidence that that impervious service ordinance has prevented one drop of water from hitting the sanitary.

You're calling this the impervious surface, but maximum lock coverage is what you're talking about. Right. So this is language embedded within that.

Right. Okay. So that's why it's not a solution to our problem. It's being touted as a solution to our problem, but it's just not. So that's really all I have to say on that. I think I've kind of illustrated.

your residents that you are set up and your water is captured and it goes back into the system. But I think one thing we have to consider is that even though there's an opportunity to capture the water, it doesn't mean that all residents are going to see that as an opportunity. They're not going to do it.

So your garage lots out on Holder Road where there is no storm are allowed at like 24,000 square feet of impervious surface because of the size of their lot. stormwater problem up there. Whereas that impervious surface that they're allowed to have is two and a half times the size of my entire lot.

I still don't think it's a good idea to fill up a lot, no matter the size, with surfaces that are unable to allow proper drainage. So allowing one residence water to run off, it absolutely becomes another residence problem. It really does.

Well, that's our responsibility to not let people build things and shed their water onto their neighbors. They're not allowed to do that. And we have to make sure we don't allow that.

Can I add something to that? So our ordinance has already addressed some of that. The neighbors' water running off section 1272.10 subsection B4 already requires All paved areas to be graded and drained to prevent excess surface water runoff to neighbors' properties with required diversion to an adequate stormwater drainage system. So I think the lot coverage is arbitrary because there's nothing tying a 30% rule or 35% rule to if that's the problem. I don't see how they're connected. And if they are, we already have something saying that They're supposed to do that in a certain way. There's also other things like section 1272.04. It prevents permanent structures in any drainage easements and requires lot owners to maintain drainage flow. We also have chapter 1266 that establishes the floodplain overlay district. It's a comprehensive FEMA-backed regulatory framework where it requires engineering certification for any development that could affect flood carrying capacity and it prohibited, it prohibits structures in the floodway entirely. Um, but you know, the, the 35% for our 30% for our one, why, why not 35%? Um, you know, there's no, there's no data, there's no engineering study, there's no flood history, there's no soil analysis, there's no reference to any standard planning. Um, So I think I'm with Rick on this completely. I don't know that this arbitrary percentage is the best way to approach it. And I would also add that we already have stuff in our ordinances that address some of the issues that were mentioned by the zoning commission.

Can I interrupt you?

Yes, sir.

Since this is a public hearing, I don't know if there are any visitors here that wish to speak. These are great points, but they can come up in council when that ordinance is being reviewed. So I would refer to any visitors who are here for that purpose, if there are.

Yes, Jake Haskins.

Go ahead, Jake.

But that and lot coverage are two completely separate things, like requiring a review for maximum lot coverage versus requiring you to put in a sidewalk is actually putting in additional impervious surface.

So I will be subtracted from the impervious surface that I'm allowed to have because it also . No, it is not. OK. The video was about bad policies. One's about the impervious surface. The other one's about sidewalks for everyone. Right. Two different things.

So sidewalks for everyone, I don't necessarily agree with. I mean, if there's an existing city walk and you're doing some construction, you destroy it, you need to replace it.

And we recently changed to that.

Yeah. But, I mean, impervious surface is pretty standard. everywhere, not just Ohio. And that maximum impervious surface requirement is to just stop somebody from saying, I'm covering my whole lot with impervious surface, and then it causes flooding everywhere else. You can have a great drainage plan, but if you cover 100% of your lot, it's going to flood somewhere else, no matter what you plan to do. And just... In my experience, and so you all know, if we have no impervious surface coverage requirements that are standard, if you want to cover more, you just apply for variance. I don't think we've ever turned one down that I know of, but I mean, it's just, hey, I'm gonna cover more than I need. There's a process for saying, this is my plan. And as long as we say, what's your stormwater runoff plan? That's what stops it there. Otherwise somebody go, I'm just gonna build whatever I want. Yes, there's subsections elsewhere in the code that say you've gotta have a runoff plan, but who approves that? Because it doesn't go to zoning. It doesn't go to your neighbors to say my yard floods all the time. And if you cover your whole lot, it's gonna cause a problem. And if you have no impervious surface requirements in your building code, then the EPA will provide them for you. And that's what sucks. And, you know, pardon my French, nobody wants to deal with that crap. Because if someone decides to say, I'm upset about this, then the EPA can come in and require you to have that. And that's a... engineer drainage plan signed off by an engineer that you pay for etc etc and that's a requirement on every lot i think it's above a half an acre but it might be one acre period if there's nothing in your code above that yes we're talking tiny small i know but you're talking about everybody right it's you know you said those big lots that they can cover 25 000 feet well that's that's what we're talking about so if there's a minimum if there's a requirement in the code and then you want to do more than that you just go apply for a variance what's the issue with that because if there's no minimum that you are going to have people that do whatever they want and it does cause flooding it's the reason there's impervious surface requirements everywhere in the state of ohio every city village in the state of ohio has them if you dig for it you'll find it you don't have to dig hard and the only places that they take that away is large urban areas where there's no development left and there's only tiny lots left and they want to reignite that part of the part of that community and they say hey let's remove the coverage because i can only put a 900 square foot house on this lot if i don't cover more than So I think we're talking about two different things, in my opinion. You were forced to put in a sidewalk. I'm not super jazzed about that, especially I've poured concrete for 30 years. I wouldn't have poured my sidewalk that high, that close to the curb. There's a lot of people that would have done it differently, but you had to do it. So that's one thing. But taking away an impervious surface requirement as a standard, and then if you want to deviate from that, apply for a variance, I would never do that. That's my advice. That's all.

Can I ask you a question? Sure. You said if 100% of the area is covered, then that's going to create flooding somewhere.

I mean, definitively, any percentage displaces water that would be absorbed into the ground.

I mean, if that water's controlled into a drain, 100% of that water, I mean, I don't understand how that causes flooding if it's going where we want it to go.

If it's controlled into a drain and you have a plan for that and there's infrastructure in place for it, that's a whole different discussion. But that's part of, like, applying for a variance would be we need to see your drainage plan before we issue the variance. Not just do whatever you want and then hope it turns out okay. Because who polices that otherwise?

But instead you're asking people to... You're telling people to get permission to use their own property.

You can use the property for whatever you want. You're making them go get a variance. That's not us. Like I said, if you take it away from the zoning and you take it away from a variance, then you can deal with the EPA. And that is terrible.

Or there could be no issue. Or there's civil matters. So it's a nuisance. It's a complaint. I file at a civil court. My neighbor's draining onto my property. I file the lawsuit. I get it taken care of. It's a trespass.

You're welcome to do that. Why would you eliminate it from the code?

I mean, why would I want to go get a variance? If I'm doing it right, why do I need permission to use my property?

If you do it right, you don't need permission to use your property. But if you're going to do anything outside the building code, you apply for a variance. It's that simple. And that's the check and balance to say, is this guy doing it right or is he not? You are doing it right. Great. Go for it. You're approved. Because not everybody is considerate like that.

Concrete doesn't require a permit.

Concrete does require a permit. What kind of permit are you talking about? Well, if you're building and you're applying impervious surfaces, then it goes as part of a review.

Like you're going to pour a driveway or something like that?

You don't, but you should adhere to the impervious surface requirements. And people that don't do that, how do you control that? But to eliminate it doesn't make any sense to me at all. It just doesn't make any sense. Besides taking away speed limit signs, it's saying drive slower. Not everybody's going to do it.

Okay. We've got another speaker.

No, I'm done anyway. I mean, any questions I can talk with you.

Thank you, Jake.

Thank you. You know...

This whole thing, we've rehashed it many times through planning and zoning. We've done a lot of research. You know, we've compared this to other communities within the state. These numbers were not come up with flying. I believe you mentioned, I'm sure, I don't believe I know you. I think I know everybody else here. I'm Phil.

Phil. Excuse me. Phil. Good to meet you. I got a cut fist bump here.

I think I know everybody else.

You know, these numbers will not come up with blind. We actually looked at what was the norm for the communities that compared to ours. And for the most part, we are at least five or 10% allowing more coverage. Now, all this is not about groundwater, but I believe a big part of it is. A lot of it is just simply small town aesthetics of it. You know, if you want to go to live in Newark, New Jersey, you have a hard time finding a grass anywhere. You know, I personally live there and to find it, just about 100% of the people in Baltimore don't want to live in that type of environment either. But when you open up the window to allow people to step through and just do whatever they want, you have no control over it. You know, Mr. Heston's...

I don't control someone else's property. I mean, I control my property, and I let other people control their property. So, I mean, that's what I think we're debating here is the level of control.

Right. And, you know, I don't want to be... I don't think anybody in this town wants to be policed or to be the police of somebody else saying, oh, their grass is too high or their pork isn't well cared for. No, we all want to get along and to help each other out, I hope. You know, that's the reason I'm here. I want everything to be the best we can be for this town. You know, if you want to allow people to do whatever they want to do with their ground, you know, What if I went to raise sheep on my property? You know, right now it's in our code. Unless it was brought in as agricultural and as state agriculture, you can't do that. But why shouldn't we allow somebody to raise sheep? You know, same thing. It's our property. You know, so there have got to be guidelines. I think we all agree on that. He's the last one. You mentioned, Mr. Foreman, it's not a solution.

It doesn't even make a drop of water towards the difference.

Well, I don't agree with you there. You're welcome. My property up here, the business property, 1200 West Market, when I bought that, that parking lot was complete. There was no grass at all. I purposely took out asphalt so I would have water getting back into the soil. Now, a big rain, I'll bet 80% of it runs off. Maybe more. Some of the road gully washes we've had, it's been more than that.

And there's solutions to that. My parking lot drains towards the central drain where I control my rainwater. Right. So there's ways to fix that.

Right. And in a perfect world, if we had the infrastructure where we could handle solid concrete, I wouldn't love it, but that would eliminate all the flooding problems, right?

But that would eliminate it.

Wouldn't that eliminate it? But we do not have that infrastructure. You know, I've been in places where they had amazing infrastructure, but still big enough rain overflow. But, you know, it's always better for more water to get back in the ground than to just ship it off out to the creek, right? We all agree on that? Absolutely.

In the ground or in the creek, where it belongs.

Yeah, well, you know, if it gets back in the ground, that's groundwater. If you're putting it in the creek, it's, you know, we all remember our high school science class, there's a cycle to it. But we want it to get back into the ground. Okay. Okay. You know, you guys got any questions, you're welcome to call me, stop in my shop anytime. But I feel very strongly about this. We need to keep these standards in place. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Any other visitors?

Not that I can see. Wait. He's just signing.

He just signed in for councilman. I would like to add some comments.

Well, can you save them for council? Because we need these.

yes so can I have a motion to adjourn during the visitors that it will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Forgive us this day our daily bread. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, Brian, may I have a roll call, please? Yeah.

Carol? Here. Foreman? Here. McCreary? Present. McLean? Here. Phillips? Here. Schaffner? Present.

Can I get an approval for July 13th, 2026 meeting for the minutes?

Before we make the motion to approve. I'll second it.

Get a roll call on that, please, Brian.

Foreman? Phillips? Yes. Carroll? Yes. McCreary? Yes.

Abstain. That was abstain because it's on the 17th. I was out of time. Thank you.

Okay. McLean? Yes. And Schaffner, you're abstaining. Abstain.

Can I get an approval of the agenda?

McCreary moves to approve the agenda as written.

McCreary? Yes. Foreman? Yes. Carroll? Yes. McLean?

Yes.

Phillips?

Yes.

Schaffner? Yes.

Okay, well let's just go right into visitors then.

Let's see what's going on.

Nobody wants to speak. Nobody wants to speak. Council meeting? No one wants to speak. Okay. They all said no.

Okay. Okay. Ron said they're here for questions. Who? What's that? These guys are here. Okay. Okay.

jeff will give a summary on it all right so let's go to village reports um i have nothing uh to add or to say i know that they were getting ready for the festival and things at the park are moving along nicely for that to be set up village administrator do you have anything

Yeah, I want to make council aware of one thing from my report. So the Ohio EPA is requiring the village to identify all service line materials within the village, both residential and commercial. You may remember that over the last couple of years, we've sent out several rounds of letters asking residents to call in. what their service line is, what the material is of their service line, copper, but really what the EPA wants to know is, is it lead or galvanized? And so we have 414 service lines out of about 2,100 that have yet to be identified. We cannot force ourselves into people's homes to take a look at what their service line is in their home, but the EPA is requiring us to put eyes on the lines in their yard. What this means is, well, this was kind of a neat thing. The Water Department has secured free water line inspections through RCAP, the Rural Community Assistance Program. They're going to cover that through a grant that is available to them. They will come in with their vac truck and they will vac down in two spots in the front yard. They'll vac down to the water line, put eyes on the water line. We can check that off based on the material. We'll have workers from the village coming back through or following them, filling that back up with topsoil. seeding and strawing. So RCAP will be in the village the week of August 10th to begin doing that. If the weather is cooperative, they think that they can get that done in three to five days, all 414. So just so you know, we've put that out on our website, Facebook page. We are sending out letters to each of these 414 residents tomorrow. Those should go out in the mail tomorrow. And then at the end of the week before, we're going to do a push to hang door tags on all 414 residents. doors as well because we know that it can be an inconvenience to the residents and we want to give them a heads up so that they see some big truck sucking dirt out of their front yard they know what's going on and that it's going to be repaired so i wanted you as the people's representatives to to definitely know what was going on there and see if you have any questions brian do you have anything no

Mr. Solicitor. A couple of things.

One, I would ask, before I forget, for a motion to go to executive session after break of the business, everybody at the tables here, for discussion.

table ordinance 2026-21, which is an ordinance to enter into a contract in Fairfield County for housing inmates. I've been in discussions with the county prosecutor and requested some amendments to their proposed agreement.

They've indicated that they're working on those, but I haven't received them. I have been doing some research regarding the all-park issue, and it does not appear to be doable to do a traditional lease agreement between the village and the BYBA because of competitive bidding requirements. But it does appear to be doable for a license agreement. And then I'm going to send that to BYDA. JD's been real helpful as far as giving me background information, pictures, drawings, that sort of thing. So I'll get contact information from him in order to. to construct these improvements that the group obtaining the financing, in the event of a default, hopefully it never happens, but in the event of a default, that the bank can't come in and seize the improvements because they're going to be made on village land, village-owned land.

And so those improvements will eventually become the property of the village.

So, and in talking to the banker for the BYU, the baseball association, when I talked to her today, I was very specific in asking and she called me. She's very helpful. Very nice. I just said, look, I think these guys will pay off probably before they, whatever the terms they have, because they have good fundraising skills, say the least. Um, I said, but let's just say something went awry. Well, how does that work? Do you repo the building? She said, no, whoever's name is on the loan is who we would go after, and it would have no effect on anything that's on village property. That's what she told me, and that's why we're working on it. on this licensing agreement to see if they're copacetic with something like that as well.

And the village is eventually going to need more detailed drawings showing the exact size of the building, the exact location of the building. Don't clarify that. But I don't think there's any mad rush to obtain those drawings now. I would recommend that we put together a draft license agreement first, circulate that, make sure everything looks doable. With the bank and everything. Yes. And then move forward.

Okay.

Can I ask a question to Mr. Faco? Yeah. Is it typical for these kind of license agreements to have some kind of performance bond involved?

I don't know. I'm in the process of obtaining drafts.

Thank you. Not a problem.

And I'll have other questions too.

Okay.

Undoubtedly. Once I'm working on that draft.

Does that answer your question?

It's overall good news. Yeah. Because what it indicates is that in concept, it's doable. So we just have to work through all of the details and make sure those details are agreeable to Village Council and to the BYO. Well, I got pictures. I can't say they're detailed drawings, but I did receive pictures.

They'll need something like from an architect or something.

Yeah.

And I would tell you after the conversation with the lady at the bank today and two, Council decides this. This isn't me or any... Council will have to vote on it and make sure that it's okay. But I feel like my personal opinion is it's an asset for sure to the children of this village and to the villages around here. Boys, girls, and everybody. So, you know, it's just we have to figure out that licensing thing. And the lady at the bank said the same thing. So...

That's it. Okay. With the ACE logo on it.

We'll go into Village Committee Reports, Finance.

Oh. We did not meet tonight, Mayor.

Our last meeting was the second Monday of July. Our next meeting is the second Monday.

August 10th. August 10th. Okay, Service. We did not meet. Our next meeting is August 10th. Safety Committee.

Yes, we met this evening, Mayor. We had a lengthy discussion about electric fences, and our next meeting will be August 24th, 6.30, or following.

Rules Committee.

Rules we did meet tonight. We had several agenda items, which we left them all on the agenda for the next meeting as well. Our next meeting will be August 24th at 6 p.m.

Public safety reports, anything for you, Chief? Nothing to add from safety. From safety, okay. How about you, Jamie, on the Basel Joint Fire District?

Yeah, I brought in papers for Brian. They're ahead of budget, so everything's good. He's paying bills.

We don't have anything other than our next meeting will be, if you could give me that date.

August 13th at 7 o'clock.

Okay. August 13th, 7 o'clock.

Anything for the tree commission?

Nope. We're just waiting for the tree commission to put together their final planting list. And once they do that, they'll send that over to me and we'll start getting quotes for that.

Brian, anything on the Records Commission?

Nope.

Okay. I guess we'll go into motions.

I would like to make a motion to go into executive session after regular business for the matters of economic development and personnel matters. Everybody at this table.

Yeah. Second from Jamie. Okay.

I got it. Huh?

Schaffner?

Yes. Carroll? Yes. McCreary? Yes. Phillips? Yes. Foreman? Yes. McLean?

Yes. Let me do one more. Oh, sure. Are you ready? Another motion for another motion? Are you ready for another motion? To table 20, 26, 21. Can they do that now? They can do it at any time.

We can do it when we get to it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Hold on. Hold on.

Sorry. That's all right.

Okay. So McLean seconded it? Yes. Okay. Schaffner? Yes. McLean? Yes. Borman? Yes. Carroll? Yes. Creary?

Yes. Phillips? Yes.

Okay.

Now Gar, I'm sorry. That's all right. No. Going forward, I'd like to make a motion that any hiring part-time or full time that involves a relative of the current village employee must go through this council. I'll second that.

Okay, I would suggest you amend that to have legislation prepared for that.

All right, then I'll amend it to have legislation prepared for that.

So do we vote on that or do we...

Wait a minute.

Wait until the legislation is prepared.

No, it's just a motion to prepare.

The motion is to have it prepared.

Who seconded it?

I did.

Okay.

Discussion?

Yeah.

Um... Well, I do have a question about this. I just want to figure out why. I know that Peg, I know that we had voted to allow Peg to come back part-time. But I guess there were some family members that were hired here recently for part-time lawn mowing or something like that. What was the difference? Why did we have to approve Peg and not approve?

Because Peg retired, and the state law says you have to vote to rehire her after she retired.

Yeah, because she worked here for years, and her relatives worked here as well.

All right.

That's all.

Okay. Let's see. Rule call. Phillips. Yes. McLean.

yes I got one more okay sorry that's all right I did some checking with local communities like Lethopolis Pataskala Canal Winchester Carroll about what time their employees came in for water, sewer, and street. None of them arrive at 6.30 in the morning. They also advised me that they have somebody there from one of those departments until the offices close for the day. I think since this town is looking at growing, which I'm against, um, that we should start looking into that because at 2 30 we don't have anybody in any of those departments here. And I think we should start looking into having them stagger their hours to have one, preferably two employees here until the offices close.

Yes. Well, no, it's to make them.

Okay.

All right.

Well, they work for the VA. Well, yeah, but Matt's here until close. Yeah. They're not is where the point is.

Also, keep in mind that if there's a water main break at 2 o'clock in the morning, they all get out of bed and come in here and fix it. So I don't think there's ever been a time when they leave and there's been a problem and we can't get a hold of somebody to come back and fix it.

No, if there's a problem at 3.30, they've got to come back. It's overtime. Not saying they could fix it at 3.30.

We could have somebody here to go out and assess the problem.

Yeah, or like stagger it, what you're saying. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Staggered hours, staggered hours. Yeah, that makes, yeah. I think that's just something that, yeah, we maybe need to try to figure out. And with the growth coming, as you said, that's probably not a bad idea. But along with that, we'll become obviously more employees as well.

Well, at least we'll be. Yeah.

Did we get a second on this?

I'll second it if not.

Okay. I guess we're on a roll call. Okay. Is that going to a committee? No.

I got one more. Oh, okay.

Is this so this is worded to a committee?

We're just saying maybe a later start time. Yeah, right, right, right, right. Some of the ones we have. Yes. We need to add staff.

No, no, no. I was saying in the future as well. I was saying. Yes.

Okay.

No, we don't need to add any.

Okay. Phillips. Yes. Carroll. Yes. McLean.

Yes.

Foreman. Yes. Schaffner.

Yes.

McCreary. Yes.

You got it. I got the last one. You guys are probably relieved. That Missy in the front office be granted a raise. She works harder than anyone in this village, and we're lucky to have her.

I'll second it.

I just said that recently.

least two dollars an hour January

You say $2? Mm-hmm. Okay. Who seconded it?

I did. I don't care. We all did.

Effective. Effective.

Whenever we vote on it. Immediately. Yeah.

The next pick period after the vote started today.

Sure.

Okay. Okay. All right, Phillips.

Yes.

Yeah, go ahead.

I just wanted to know, who does she report to directly? Is it to Matt? Both of us. Could we have your opinion?

Or is that something you're not allowed to talk about? Missy's worth keeping for sure. And I think this is a great way of saying thank you to her. Okay. And she would be really blessed by it.

She kind of reports to both of us.

Missy onboarded me when I was here. That's how much of the village that she knows.

And multiple village administrators before you.

Missy is the VA. I am the assistant VA.

has to take the bad phone calls. There we go. She shouldn't have to. That's exactly right. She does too much already.

She does a great job.

She also does the mayor's court. Yes, she does.

She's compensated for that as well. That's great. She's also the administrative assistant for water and sewer.

Sounds. The place would run fine without everybody.

When you say all that, it sounds like $2. Right, that's what I was thinking.

Well, you have a chance to read this.

It just blows the budget.

It just blows the budget.

That's your problem. She reports to you. Huh? She reports to you, too, you just said.

Yeah, and I question if she now makes more than me. We're not worried about that. Ouch. Ouch.

Moving on. Okay.

We got a roll call. Phillips?

Yes. Foreman? Yes.

Carroll?

Yes.

McCreary? Yes. McLean?

Yes.

Doffner?

Yes. Okay.

Thank you, Missy.

Yep.

Anything else, Gar? Nope. I'm done. All right. As everybody says. Great idea.

All right. So I'm going to go right into the reading. First reading resolution. 26-23 resolution updating the district solid waste management plan. I don't know that we had a sponsor on that.

Yeah, Randy.

I sponsored that. That's the one that we need to get passed, correct?

Well, technically we have 90 days from mid-July to approve that.

Okay, so my understanding is this is something that happens regularly anyways. It's renewing the agreement, so I would like to move to bypass the three reading rule.

Foreman seconds. Can I get a roll call on that, please, Brian?

McCreary? Yes. Foreman?

Yes.

Carroll?

Okay, with that, I would like to move to adopt 202623. Foreman seconds.

I said foreman seconds. I know. More discussion again? Okay.

McCurry.

Yes.

Foreman. Yes. Carroll.

Yes. Phillips. Yes.

McLean. Yes. governor.

Okay, so the next ordinance I assume this is there's no sponsor for this one and whoever sponsored I need to bypass committee Do you want to explain it Yeah, basically One is to establish a budget for the Elmwood Jefferson OPWC project for $984,200. The second part is to increase revenue and expropriations by $50,000 for engineering costs to monitor what's going on at the developments. um, increased appropriations of miss a tax fund by $51,800 to fund our share of the cost of the op WC project. And then lastly is to reallocate some money to pay I'll second it. Let's see, Foreman? Yes. McLean? Yes. Schaffner?

Yes.

Carroll? Yes. McCreary?

Yes. Phillips?

Yes. Okay, Foreman makes a motion to bypass three readings and pass this by emergency. I'll second it.

Yes.

Schaffner?

Yes.

Foreman makes a motion to adopt. I'll second.

Okay. Okay. Foreman? Yes. Phillips? Yes. Carroll? Yes. Curry? Yes. McLean? Yes. Schaffner? Yes. Okay.

We have no second reading. We'll go to the third reading this Next one is sponsored by Mr. Carroll, resolution 2619, a resolution authorizing the village administrator to request an amended certification to enforce the Ohio building code within the village of Baltimore and Fairfield County, Ohio.

Can somebody explain that one?

Police. I was just going to ask if we could do a recap on that one because we've had mixed conversations.

This is authorizing Matt to hire Safebilt back to do our inspections. Yeah.

All right. And to limit it to new bills. Yes. Yes.

So, Mr. Carroll, do you want to make a motion to adopt? I'll make a motion to adopt.

I'll second it. There's no discussion. Can we get a roll call on that one, please?

Carroll? Phillips?

Yes.

McCreery? Yes. McLean?

Yes.

Foreman?

Yes.

Schaffner?

Yes. Next ordinance is 2026-20, Mr. McLean is the sponsor of that, excuse me. Ordinance to amend Chapter 12, Title IV, Zoning Code, Appendix E, Site Development Checklist for Plan Development Projects, Impact Fees of the Baltimore Qualified Ordinances to Delete References to Impact Fees.

Mr. Mayor, since we don't do impact fees anymore, this is really just a cleanup of the ordinance. That's what it is, yes. I guess I make a motion to adopt.

I'll second it. If there's no discussion, we can have a seconder. Carroll. Carroll, Mr. President. Can we get a roll call on that, please?

McLean. Yes.

Carroll. Yes.

McCurry? Yes. Phillips? Yes. Foreman? Yes. Goffner?

Yes.

Okay, we're skipping the next one, correct? Okay, so going down to the next one. Mr. Foreman, you were the sponsor of this.

Okay, this was the subject of a public meeting earlier today. We've been made aware by the solicitor that in order for this to pass, it would require five votes. I think everybody kind of knows where everybody stands on this one, so I think this one's probably going to die here, but... foreman's going to just make a motion to adopt and let the chips fall where they may.

I need a second.

I mean...

I'd like to discuss, but... You can discuss.

I'll second. Or Jamie already did. I'll third. Or it could die on motion, too.

No, I got you down as a second. Go ahead.

Discussion?

Yeah, discussion.

We heard some... some good comments tonight. I think there should be guidelines, as Mr. Mauger said. I just don't know that these percentages are the right kind of guidelines. I think some of our ordinances already cover exactly what's going on here when it comes to runoff. I would say aesthetics is something that is arbitrary. I don't really think we should be in that game. telling somebody what looks good and what doesn't. I don't really think that's our place. But lastly, the argument or the claim that we've compared it to other municipalities is kind of a, I don't mean to sound rude, but I mean, it's just like, well, this is what everybody else is doing. But I don't think there's a study supporting any of those percentages that I could find. I did some research for engineering studies. The only thing I found was Booth and Jackson engineering study and then Center for Watershed Protection and then the Natural Resources Conservation Service. And what all these say is per lot percentage caps, they don't predict runoff. What actually matters is your soil type. Your grading and your connectivity to drainage is what really matters. And so none of these numbers were based off of anything like that. So that's why I believe they're arbitrary. And I think that we should remove them and rely instead on the other ordinances that already cover our neighbors when it comes to runoff and things like that. So that's really all I have to say.

I'll discuss. I just want to say that, I mean, everybody's stuck on this 35%, but it's actually 40, right? So our percentage is higher than the norm. I have heard this philosophy over and over and over of, well, if somebody is damaged, they can sue. I've heard that so many times around this table. I don't think that that is the standard of care that we should give for these citizens. to just put them in a position, well, it might be wrong, and instead we're just gonna have to sue. I think that's a terrible way to manage our residents. And I've also, I just wanna say too, I've heard we need to do this by a case-by-case basis. That is what a variance is for. That's exactly what a variance is for, to determine whether on a case-by-case basis that somebody can do what they want to do and extend that 40%. So that's all I have to say.

If there's no other discussion, we will go to a vote.

Okay. Foreman? McLean?

Yes.

Schaffner? No. Carroll?

Yes.

McCreary? No. Phillips?

IT DOESN'T PASS.

IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS.

IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS.

IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS.

IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS.

IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS. IT DOESN'T PASS.

IT DOESN'T PASS.

That should not be on there.

Any new business? Any of the visitors have anything else to say? Any comments?

Nope. With that said, we're going to go into an executive session.

Thanks, everyone, for coming.

Okay, we're going into the second session at 7.40, 7.41.