City Council - Regular Meeting

Okay. It is 6.07, so we'll move straight into our regular meeting, and certainly we welcome everyone, and I want to call to order tonight's Auburn City Council meeting for September the 15th. We appreciate everybody that has joined us live, as well as that are watching through our streaming services and listening on WANI. With the roll call, Lindsay.

Adams. Here. Oblentz. Here. Dawson. Here. Griswold.

Here.

Foreman. Here. Parsons. Here. Taylor. Here. Whitman.

Here.

Here. Would you please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance and remain standing for a moment of silence. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Please be seated. Earlier tonight during the Committee of the Whole, we had a number of appointments or reappointments. We had a couple from the Greenspace Advisory Board. Phil Chancellor was appointed for his first full term and Michael Buttman for his second full term. We had two from the Industrial Development Board. Dave DeBates was reappointed for his fifth term and Matt Clegg for his second term. And the Lee County Youth Development Center, Cynthia Boyd, was reappointed to her second full term. We introduced Parker Nelson, who now will be part of the communications team to our community, and we just had a discussion about issuing a city email for an incoming city council representative. Under announcements tonight, I do have a number of things I would like to go through. We're certainly looking forward to a huge weekend with Florida coming to town, and we certainly want everyone that is interested in coming to Auburn You're welcome. We hope that your intentions will be to have a good time and to be respectful of all those in this community and to make sure that you don't become a problem for the community. But you are welcome here, and we are certainly excited about a big weekend. Next weekend is homecoming weekend. I want to remind our community on Friday will be the homecoming parade for the Student Government Association of Auburn University in a pet rally will be held afterwards i would say that friday afternoon getting in and around downtown be very challenging so please file that away um i want to thank the chamber of commerce for hosting blessing on the corner last friday uh it's always a rich time to gather together uh as members of our community and uh and ask for the lord's blessings as we start a new academic and athletic year here and i appreciate the chamber of commerce putting that on i also want to thank uh Father Farmer at St. Michael's Church for hosting a blue mass that that church hosts every year in honor and recognition of the sacrifices that were made on 9-11, as well as recognizing the great work that is done from our public safety officials here locally. I want to say thank you. It was really interesting to go to the groundbreaking of the North End Zone. When you think about what's going on at the North End Zone, you can really get caught up in the athletic purpose of that. And then it was really interesting to hear the student purpose of what that facility is going to be. But there's also going to be an opportunity for us as a community to be a part of what goes on inside the North End Zone. And it'll be exciting as it comes together here over the next 24 months to see how that can offer different opportunities for our community to host events and parties and whatnot. And so we're very excited about that. This past Sunday, I went to Mama Goldberg's and celebrated their 50th anniversary. Certainly the story of Don Dement, who had a fine men's clothing store in that little building and turning that into a deli shop is an interesting story. But I appreciate what Mama Goldberg's has meant. It is a true Auburn business that was developed here, founded here, and has grown from here. And certainly thank the current owners for all that they're doing to continue to make Mama Goldberg's a part of our community. as well as everywhere else. I want to give an update on some of the meetings I have had regarding affordable housing in our community. Certainly had a great meeting with a couple of staff members and Mr Fred Bennett, who has been a developer and a builder of affordable housing in our community. There's at least two projects he's been involved in and it was a great discussion with him about what potential opportunities rest with the city becoming a partner in creating some affordable housing in this community. Those were early discussions. There were no conclusions that were drawn. Also, myself and Max Koblentz had a breakfast with a local property manager. I'm hopeful that something will come with that as other property managers come together and can evaluate what the opportunities are and where the vacancies are after students go through the signing up for next year's leases and so we are actively talking to those people and hoping that things can come forward with that also had I'm keeping up with the developer had another phone conversation with him recently and he is continuing to work on some of the initiatives that could be helpful to those who will be displaced come May so that's the work that I have personally been involved with I've also had a new granddaughter since our last meeting so I was out a few days and didn't get as much done I do have an announcement that I'd like to read, if you would bear with me. It's something I'm very excited about and I believe our community will be excited about. This past February, the city council committed $2 million of gap financing to the Auburn Housing Authority as they sought funding from the Alabama Housing Finance Authority to redevelop the first 56 units of the Ridgecrest Apartments. The Housing Authority had previously applied for this funding in both 2021 and 2024. With support financing from the city, but they were not selected. But perseverance and hard work paid off, and today I am pleased to announce that the Auburn Housing Authority was notified that they have been funded by the Alabama Housing Finance Authority. Over the next year, the Auburn Housing Authority will begin to work on this important $21 million redevelopment project. Now that this project will be moving forward, I'd like to remind the council that the city has committed the following. a $225,000 grant from the city's Community Development Block Grant, CDBG, allocation, a $225,000 loan from the Section 108 loan program, a $1.7 million from the general fund payable over eight years, which equals $221,000 plus per year and is included in the FY2027 budget that is on our agenda this evening. As the project proceeds, it is important to note that the Auburn Housing Authority does have a program for relocation of the existing tenants as required by the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development. I also want to say congratulations to Sharon Talbert and the board of the Auburn Housing Authority for their dedication and perseverance. I know I speak for the rest of the council when I say we look forward to seeing this project move forward for the benefit of our residents and our communities. Does anyone else have an announcement they'd like to make tonight?

I don't have an announcement, but I do have a clarification. I just want to say that the city council, all of the city council members, I don't know about the mayor, but I know the city council members all receive an allocation budget for traveling, and that budget is $2,000.00. And every year I get ready to go to Washington D.C. since I've been on the council. $2,000 is not enough to accommodate. So we have the opportunity that we can ask other council members if they're not using their funds, can we use those funds? So I have asked other council members to let me use their funds in order to travel with. So it's been granted over the years. And I'm thankful that council members, because I really probably couldn't afford to go to Washington without using someone's funds. So I just want to clarify that when I'm using, nobody's giving me money out of their pocket, but I'm just asking for the funding from another council member to make my trip a success.

All right. Anyone else have an announcement they'd like to make?

I have a couple, if I may. Yesterday I had the pleasure of touring the One Voice Women's Home at Northridge campus and had a very nice visit with Ms. Causey and we talked through a lot of things and initiatives and what their future looks like and then I also had a neighborhood meeting with the Bridgewater community at Chappie's Deli last night and it was a great conversation with residents and it was just nice to sit and chat about things that have been happening in North Auburn.

Anyone else? Okay, we'll move ahead with Auburn University Communications.

Good evening, city council members and Marianners. My name is Tempe Stokes, and I'm a director of city relations for Auburn SGA. The Argentina-Iceland soccer match held in Jordan-Hare on June 9th brought in approximately $27.3 million into the Auburn economy over the summer and saw a $79.7 million impact in media exposure with over 100,000 visitors. President Roberts hosted an event for first-year students at his house on Mel Street as a part of the First 56 Experience. And this event allowed students to meet academic and university leadership while experiencing the Auburn community early in the year. And on September 11th, Auburn ROTC hosted their seventh annual Memorial Stair Climb Injured in hair and saw over 600 participants from cadets of all ROTC branches local first responders student athletes and student universe student and university representatives to honor the 343 first responder lives that were lost in the attacks Continually like Mary under said um Auburn University broke ground on the North End zone project also this past Thursday and it is a 300,000 square feet addition to the stadium scheduled to be for completion of spring 2029 and like Marianne said again, it goes beyond athletics. It's space for students to hold events and for the community to hold events, and it goes beyond just the athletics. Auburn Greek Life will be participating in National Hazing Prevention Week from September 21st to 25th, 21st to 25th, to encourage a shift towards safety, inclusion, and respect within student and Greek organizations. And then football is finally back on the plains. We played Southern Miss and won 43 to 8, and then this week we will host the Florida Gators, and then the next weekend will be Vanderbilt, which is homecoming, which will have the parade and pep rally at 6 p.m. And then finally, Pi Kappa Phi kicked off their annual week-long philanthropy event, The War of Roses, which is hosted by chapters of PI-CAP around the nation in order to raise funds for their philanthropy, their ability experience, which aims to raise awareness for people with mental and physical disabilities and historically rates upwards of $100,000 for this cause. That's all for me. Thank you, and War Eagle.

Thank you, War Eagle. Appreciate your report. All right, this time is citizens' communications on items on tonight's agenda. Please, this will be Only items that are on tonight's agenda. There are a few items that have public hearings attached to those. That would be item 9C, and then all of our resolutions under number 10 have public hearings attached. But anything else that is on our agenda you'd like to speak to the council, please come forward and give us your name and address for the record, and you'll have five minutes to speak.

Robert Wilkins, 261 Denson Drive, Auburn, Alabama. A, E, 1, 2, and 3, dealing with board appointments. Mayor Pro Tem Beth Whitten and Councilman Griswold had an idea to improve our board selection several years ago. But the good old boy system is still well and alive. We are denying the extraordinary talent that we have in this city so we can play favorites. This has got to stop. You can be mad at me, but do the right thing. Overhaul this travesty. Now I want to talk about 9A, amending 2026-27 biannual budget. The mayor, Councilman Griswold, city manager, Director Matthews, and Tyler Adams said, we don't do certain things in mid-year. But in mid-year, our city manager introduced a whole new department, a legal department, with no data as usual. When the city manager wants it, the mayor and this council Gives it to her this council gives her the biggest salary benefit of all top ten government in Alabama her contract reads like a sports athlete Why all she has to say is I need something to enlarge our government by staffing funds No, no. No, this has got to stop We have to stop being wasteful with the abundance of revenue that we receive we've got to stop doing so many slush funds and one being as high as $122 million that I mentioned last council meeting. By the way, can we start having a real in-depth audit on the likes of a forensic type of audit? Our city manager, which this practice started in 2000, so she didn't start it, but under Mayor Hamm's first term, she can change any line item at any time she wants. This is a horrible, horrible practice, inexcusable. Councilman Griswold has tried over and over to stop the excessive purchases, especially automobiles by our city government, by our city managers pushing for one automobile for every police officer. What is next? One automobile for every city employee? Stop this, please. But we will fight over pennies for helping the homeless and deny that we're dropping them off in Tigertown. Who would admit to such a terrible practice? But it's happening, and it is true. Yes, it is.

Stop. Stop this clock. How do you have proof of that? Do you have proof that our police officers have taken a homeless person to Tigertown and pushed them out of the car and said, good luck? No, tell me. Do you have evidence of it? Would you let me speak? Yeah, I'm going to let you speak right now.

Thank you. I appreciate it with such kindness there.

Thank you. You know I'm mean. Huh? I'm mean.

Whatever. I have the right people, but the problem is you as a – Good old boy system. People are afraid to come up and say things. Who's afraid?

Who's afraid?

The people that have told me this. So have you seen it?

Have you seen it?

No, I haven't seen it, no. I have not. Do I need to see it? I can go and look, I guess, next time I hear about it.

So you really have no proof?

Yes, I have proof, but I can't pull them forward. If I could, I would. But why in the heck would I want to make up something like this? Because it's not made up. It is true.

Recently you said 75% of our employees in our industries were from foreign countries.

Well, you said that 25% were from Auburn at a WAIN radio.

Did I say 75% were from foreign countries? You just said 75%. Yeah, so you interpreted that.

What do you mean by Tiger Town, sir?

Tigertown, Tigertown.

In other words, the county jail over in Tigertown, we quite frequently take folks over and drop them off all the time. Do what now? Say that again. There's a county jail also over there in Tigertown, and we take folks and drop them off all the time. Maybe that's what you're seeing or hearing about. No, that's not it.

I'm sorry. And the people that are pretty reliable, I'm working on it, and I'm hoping I can have at least one or two bring it forward, but it is true. I have no desire to make up anything. This is true, and you can laugh, Tyler. All of you can act like it's not happening, but it is. And the problem is, it's not just happening in Auburn. It's happening all over the state. Mr. Mayor, can we restart the clock, please?

We can at the council's discretion.

I just have one moment.

Before we restart.

The notion of including me as a good old boy is just... I just don't...

I didn't say you were a good old boy. I said the good old boy system. You're not a part of the good old boy system.

There is no good old boy system. Yes, there is. So that is my issue. If the people behind me would speak up, they would. If you're including us collectively as good old boys... You're not a good old boy system. I am so not a good old boy. There is not a good old boy system here. These are elected people trying to do their best work on behalf of the citizens they represent. And it's just some of the things you're saying just don't make any logic. And that one is the one.

Well, first of all, you weren't logical, because I didn't say anything about any of it all being a good old boy system, except for maybe the number.

I'm sorry. I heard it. You just said it.

I said the good old boy system is selected.

The good old boy system implies that this body is a good old boy, and that's just not the case. Robert, you literally said that.

I said the good old boys system. I didn't say y'all. I looked at each and every one of us. No, I did. Are you going to read it again?

Mr. Mayor, can we restart the clock, please?

Ms. Crouch, I'd like to hear from the public safety director. if we've been dropping citizens off in Tigertown, our police department.

You think he's really going to say he does?

No. We have not been removing anyone from the city unless they have asked for a ride, and we only do that when we're able to do it. So if they ask for a ride and we're not busy, we will facilitate a ride. Sometimes our officers buy bus tickets for people that ask for a ride. But to remove someone against their will involuntarily does not happen.

Thank you. Please start the clock.

First of all, why do you think that House Bill 162 was introduced in 2025? Why? It's because of things like that happened at Tigertown. There are other cities and other counties in the state.

This is not referencing an item on the agenda.

I think we dealt with that last time that you and I talked at the last council meeting. It was dealing with the homeless, and you said it wasn't. And I said it was from the United Methodist Church program that they have. So, yes, it is still part of it. I'm about through, so give me three lines, and you can have rid of me, okay? The bill 162 introduced in 2025, okay, it said it deals with this kind of practice. And it says because this practice is happening throughout the state with our city government of Auburn involved, and they did not pass it, it stayed in committee, and of course it would be. It would be a difficult thing to pass. I'm surprised anyone ever put it up before the legislature. But it is a common practice, not just in Alabama, throughout the country. And we ignore it. And we want to go ahead and tell people, well, Mr. Wilkins, you sure don't need to be up here talking about this because something's wrong with you, I guess, or whatever. But I don't have any reason not to be truthful. I have no reason. I have no gain. All I have is this kind of stuff. This is what I get. And I have no problem. I'm ready to be here, and I'm ready to help those homeless people. And I think dropping them off at a tiger town is unexcusable. And until y'all figure out what's going on, but between our city manager, she controls our safety department and so forth. And I know when I say city manager, y'all all go crazy. So... If I can get these people to speak up openly, well, you can laugh. I am. I totally laugh. They don't exist.

Yes, they do. They don't, Robert. Yes, they do. We do not drop people off in Tiger Town.

That's ludicrous.

It is untrue. You speak falsehoods.

Under no circumstance have I ever instructed the police chief or the public safety director to drop a homeless individual off in any other city. Period. End of story. That's the truth and not in my sports contract.

Could you imagine the friction between our sister city in Opelika should such a practice exist? It's ludicrous.

That's correct. We actually collaborate very closely with our sister city and work on these issues together. And so despite people, we can have a football rivalry with Opelika. We can argue about sales tax. But when it comes to public safety, we work together hand in hand. We collaborate together. Our chiefs talk regularly. And you're correct.

Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak about an item on tonight's agenda? Okay. We'll move ahead with city manager's communications.

Mayor, I don't have any communications this evening. Our first item of business is the consent agenda. Does any council member wish to remove an item from the consent agenda and deal with that item individually?

Yes, I would, please. All right. Item 8D4, 8 Delta 4. All right. Anyone else?

Anyone else? Okay. 8D4.

Item 8D4 authorizes a temporary construction easement and compensation of $87,500 to the Owens Family Partnership LLC for the North Donahue Drive widening project phase one.

Move for approval.

Second. I have a motion and a second. Mr. Griswold? Thank you. I'm just a little confused on how this item interacts with item 10B2 later on. 10B2 is a statutory warranty deed purchasing this property. and yet this item has us approving compensation for the temporary use of the same property. Both items had the exact same map, and I'm unclear as to why we should be doing a temporary easement for the tune of $87,500 when we're going to turn around later in the agenda and purchase the property for $980,000. So I just need some clarification, please. Sure thing.

Understandable. I'll have Mr. Cummings respond. Typically when you're dealing with a temporary construction easement, It's something that is temporary. They retain the property, and then a permanent or acquisition of right-of-way would be different. Mr. Cummings.

Yes, and the map is the same because the property is adjacent to that. So there is some additional property that we're purchasing for right-of-way. That's the actual statutory deed that you'll consider a little later. The temporary construction easements. So when we're actually constructing this, we're actually – building slopes, we're having to do some grading that gets off of that right-of-way that will eventually be ours, but it's not property that we need to retain indefinitely. So that's why we get a temporary construction easement to be able to do work off the right-of-way onto their property. So it's actually adjacent to that run. It's a smaller sliver.

I think where the confusion, Councilman Griswold, and I totally understand why, is comparing the two drawings, there's a gap between what shows as North Donahue Drive right-of-way and what's called a construction easement in the item you asked about. The gap in between that is the property we're actually purchasing.

That's correct.

And the easement is on the outside of that. So if you see the white space between, yep. So the property we're purchasing is in between there and the current right-of-way of North Donahue, but these are very similar maps and totally understand why that could be confusing.

Yeah, I say the gap in there just if we're gonna buy it Can't we use that property rather than releasing something ahead of time?

So it's property that we don't need for the road itself. It has to do with construction It will return to their ownership at roughly three hundred and fifty thousand dollars an acre It's very pricey property and not something we want to acquire long term if it's not necessary.

Okay. Thank you Good question anyone else? I do have a motion and a second on this. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, and the motion carries. Do I have a motion to approve the balance of the consent agenda?

So moved.

Second.

Motion and a second to approve the balance of the consent agenda. Any further questions? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, the consent agenda is approved. Ordinances.

Under ordinances this evening, item 9A amends the biennial budget ordinance 3544 that was adopted on September 16, 2025 to account for events and changes that have occurred since the fiscal year 2026-2027 budget was adopted. The process is also known as the mid-biennium budget. This is the second reading of this item.

Move for approval.

Second. I have a motion and a second. Any comments, questions from the dais?

Yes, once again, I will be voting just present on this one instead of yay or nay, because I didn't vote for the original ordinance, so I don't think it would be appropriate to vote for a change to it. And also, I was a little disappointed that the council members' priorities were not solicited prior to this to see if there would be... any changes in our, in the council's approach, uh, in the, uh, mid biennial budget.

So just so you know, sure. All right. I got it. Um, anyone else have a comment question? Yes, sir. Mr. Mormon.

Well, in agreement, uh, with the sentiment there, the city budget is a very large document covering the health, safety and welfare of our entire community. And, So I just want to pick an item. I'd like to pick a school funding and talk just a little bit about that. Um, to maybe help clarify an issue or big issue, uh, from the citizen and the taxpayers viewpoint, people come to Auburn for a lot of reasons. One big reason is our school system. And we, as a city have made a conscious decision to have great schools. Reflected in this budget are two chief forms of revenue, ad valorem or property taxes and sales taxes. First, property taxes. The average homeowner in Auburn pays about $2,000 a year in property tax. That's not a bad deal compared to other states and other communities across the nation and across our area. Of that $2,000, About 1,300 of it stays home, which means that it goes to the city of Auburn to be used locally, and the rest goes to the state and the county. Of the 1,300 that stays here, about 800, or about 60%, goes to fund construction and improvement for the facilities of the school system. So about $800 of the $2,000 that the average student citizen pays goes to support funding of capital projects for our school system. Now, if I'm off on my numbers, I trust that I'll be gently corrected. But in addition to property tax, the city receives four cents on each dollar from sales tax of retail sales in our community. Of that, one and one quarter percent or about 30% goes to support the city school system's general operating fund. So to sum it up, we take seriously our pledge to have good schools in Auburn. And the most important ingredients in that are our teachers and our administrators. But we want the system to be well funded. And as you can see, it is not a great burden for us, just a priority. So that is a bird's eye view of one item on a very large budget, and I've covered things I just thought the average taxpayer would like to know from their viewpoint. So for that and for the public safety and welfare of this community to include safety, security, transportation, water, all those things that are important to us, for that I'll be supporting the budget.

Anyone else have any comments, any further questions? Again, Ms. City Manager, I want to say to you and the staff, thank you for your hard work. Thank you for staying on top of this. And you were recognized by your peers, Allison and your team, as being one of the best, if not the best, in Alabama, and we're certainly grateful for that. This is a big job. And it's our responsibility as a council to make the final decisions as to where these resources are applied. And, uh, it's a great, great responsibility that we have on behalf of the citizens of Auburn. So, um, we take this, this second reading and this vote very, um, it's very important. It's very vital to the health and welfare of this city. So I appreciate you bringing that forward. That certainly is a, is. is a strategy that we've employed in this community for a long time to support our schools beyond what we're required to do. And it has been the primary reason that people have moved to this community over the years. That is certainly, there's a lot of different reasons why that's going on right now, but certainly when Auburn started growing, it was primarily for people to have their children in our school system. And I believe this support has been meaningful. So, okay. All right, do we need to do this by voice vote or roll call? Roll call, please, because it's an ordinance. Lindsay?

Yes.

Taylor?

Yes. Yes.

Adams?

Yes. Yes, ma'am.

Dawson?

Yes, ma'am.

Griswold?

Present. Norman? Yes, ma'am. Anders? Yes.

Item 9B1 is a request to annex approximately 3.39 acres of property located at 744 Lee Road 8, also known as Cotton Valley Lane. This is known as the Gaither Annexation. The Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of this request at its September 10th meeting. Unanimous consent is necessary.

I'll introduce the ordinance and ask for unanimous consent. Second. Second.

I have a motion. Seconds. Anyone on the council have a problem moving forward with a vote on this this evening?

I'd like the record to show I abstain from voting.

Okay. One abstention. Any other questions? Any other? Okay. We'll move ahead. Any questions? Comments? Okay. Lindsay with a roll call.

Taylor?

Yes.

Whitten? Yes. Adams? Yes. Koblitz? Yes, ma'am. Dawson?

Abstain.

Griswold?

Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

Parsons?

Yes. Yes.

Item 9B2 is a request to annex approximately .17 acres of property located at 1400 North College Street. This is known as the Youth for Christ annexation. The Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of this request at its August 13th meeting. Unanimous consent is necessary.

I'll introduce the ordinance and ask for unanimous consent. Second.

Motion seconds. Anyone on the council have a problem moving forward with a vote on this this evening? Any questions or comments?

This portion of this also coincides with the next item for rezoning requests. This .17 acres, is this the piece of property that currently houses a billboard?

That's correct. It went up at a time when the billboard went up. We had done a lot of checking with the planning staff, and it is, I think, kind of the best way to put it, Justice, is over time and as zonings and annexations and things happen, there's a little tiny piece that was never in, nothing closed in terms of when we look at survey data on the ground and kind of left this as a little islandish piece.

Yeah, that is correct.

So it was unknown to us and the adjoining property owners at the time that this was not in the city limits. And therefore, we can't regulate the billboard, but we can if you annex it. And we don't regulate billboards, by the way. It's large signs. Right. Thank you.

Any other comments, questions?

Would that regulation include potentially removing it?

It becomes a legal nonconforming. Mr. Cotton can explain.

Yeah, so normally in situations like this, it's kind of like Senator said, it becomes a legal nonconformity and then the leases can't be extended pretty much. It's how we have handled them in other places in town where we've annexed property like down in South College, things like that. It just becomes a legal nonconformity and the lease doesn't get renewed.

If it's severely damaged, it can't be replaced. There's a number of nuances in the nonconforming section of the zoning ordinance that address it. So say the frame came down or somebody wanted to lease somebody else a new frame could not go back up. It would have to be removed.

So I don't know the details of the lease, but there's a current lease by the billboard company or whatever to place it there.

Correct.

And that has a period of performance or runs out at some point or?

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. And it would not be, and it wouldn't be able to be extended. And I guess just kind of to provide a little more details on the nonconformity stuff. So it has to do with major alterations, anything kind of that extends beyond minor maintenance and repair. So if there is any significant damage to it or compromise the sign, the sign will not be able to be fixed and be re-erected again.

All right. Thank you. Any other comments, questions? Okay. Lindsay, roll call.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Item 9C is a request to rezone approximately 1.35 acres of property from rural, the 0.17 acres you just annexed, and development district housing, which is the remainder of the parcel. It's a comprehensive development district for property located at 1400 North College Street. This is known as the Youth for Christ rezoning. Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of this request at its August 13th meeting. A unanimous consent is necessary and a public hearing is required.

I'll introduce the ordinance and ask for unanimous consent. Second.

Motion is second. Seeing none, we'll open the public hearing. If you'd like to address the City Council, please come forward and give us your name and address for the record. And you have five minutes to speak to the Council. Seeing no one to close the public hearing. Any comments or questions from the council?

Yes, I have a couple. Yes, ma'am. I don't understand if maybe there can be some clarification as to why this is a request, what the plans may be for this piece of property.

Yeah, so when they reached out, they were, in the process of trying to sell the property, and they thought that all their prospective buyers would have commercial interests. That was when they did research on the property, and I understood that they were zoned, DDH was in it, which is pretty much an exclusively residential zoning district, and really precluded any of the potential buyers of the property. And so they are trying to expand the horizon of people they can sell to by rezoning this to CDD.

Do we typically reason things for people just to be able to resell without having an idea of what may come there?

We do not. That that is a great question. The reason for that and the reason staff is very is comfortable with this. This property is this particular parcel is significantly encumbered by floodplain. And so if they want to do anything as far as tearing down the building and then and to put it back up, it would be very, very small footprint, probably smaller than what they currently have. If they wanted to... I think a lot of the concerns that rest with CDD are single-family housing in different places. That would not be possible in this. They would not be able to construct single-family housing. So a lot of the concerns that exist in other places in the city with rezoning the CDD does not exist here because this property is so encumbered by floodplain.

But there are some uses that could go there. If it were rezoned to CDD, that would be permitted by right and... could become an issue because of its location at that corner or off that corner.

Yeah, I would say I think what's buildable, and I understand what would be permitted by right, but what's really buildable when you look at the site, the amount of floodplain on the property, it would really be a very small footprint. They'd either have to alter the building or it would just be office space. Like I said, a lot of the uses that are allowed by right in CDD would not be buildable. You wouldn't be able to realize it. Like I said, I mean, the vast majority of the property is encumbered by floodplain.

Could you put a seven brew there with its footprint?

You could not. You could not. And I've had several calls from folks who live across the street about it, and that was one of the things that I assured them. The footprint there that's actually buildable would not allow the vast majority of the uses in CDD to be realized. It wouldn't even really be able to be subdivided to the density that CDD does allow for things to be subdivided.

So, but one of those small little coffee kiosks that has a bunch of stacking wrapping around the building in a very significant high traffic area, I think is what Mayor Pro Tem is getting at. One, theoretically, a building could fit there, Justice.

Yeah, a building could. Like I said, it'd be more walk-up kind of park here. But but even something to the scale of like the downtown footprint of a well rent would not be able to fit. Like I said, it is is that it is that encumbered by floodplain.

Okay. Thank you.

But I mean, in theory, any use that's allowed by city could could go here. There are no limitations.

It could. It would be a it would be one of those things in DRT or in the pre-op meeting where we would sit down with them and they would have to satisfy a very excruciating barrier of entry to make it happen but this council would not have any any control over what could no once it's permitted by writing cdd like i said i think staff is comfortable just from a it's not viable from a building standpoint and that that's what really it's the natural constraints of the property but it could be

added to another parcel next to it or that could create a use that could go there.

It could. Yes, it could. That was my question as well. I didn't know what was behind this property that's in CDD currently. Is it vacant land?

Is the store ease?

Okay.

And then there's some property on the corner that's in the county still.

I'm familiar with this piece of property, and I'm very, very comfortable with the recommendation to approve this. There's a stream right there. There's a bunch of drainage pipes. It makes no difference. You're not going to be able to put anything on this.

But there's a church there now that's been operating...

So it's more of an arm of a religious organization that they've been meeting there, but due to internal changes within their organization, they largely don't use it anymore and they operate somewhere else. So that's the reason that they're trying. They also have other reasons for selling it, but it hasn't really been a part of their operations on a day-to-day lately. That was one of the reasons for them moving to sell it.

It could be used for residential, though, just a single family dwelling.

Not. Not. Yeah, yeah, not. Not likely, just not likely. And I think also so we talk about the floodplain also this this intersection from a residential standpoint, this is an arterial and I guess there'd be a lot going on with they'd be combating us on the existing driveway, trying to maintain it, their access, all these different things. So like I said, I think any intense uses are really ruled out from the proximity to the intersection, the volume of traffic on this road, also being encumbered by floodplain and then them also not having the depth to really maneuver and mitigate the floodplain on the site. It is a lot. This entire stretch, and I think that's also why property on the other side of the road that's been on 280 has also largely remained vacant. There's just a lot of floodway, floodplain, not easily traversable, not easily developable.

Real quickly, the estimate is about a third of an acre. Is that right? In floodplains, about 14,374 square feet, roughly, and that's not an exact number. But in that case, is parking allowed in a floodplain? I'm trying to get at the crux of the council's questions. I think justice one challenge is every time the council makes a decision, somebody figures out a way around that and ends up with something that I'm not sure that they may or may not be comfortable with. Trying to understand, is there a way around this? Can parking go in the floodplain? Can other things, can you fit a small building envelope for a liquor store, a hemp store, whatever it is, just making sure I think that's kind of what they're looking for.

Yeah, so even in this, I think one of those things is, they would have to present a plaque to us to actually outline where the floodplain boundaries are to really kind of match up with whatever conditional use or whatever use that they wanted to do to make sure they can meet the special development standards associated with it. To the point about parking in the floodplain, that would also be heavily contested. Like I said, a lot of this from the footprint of the building And the special development standards associated with a lot of the uses in CDD really preclude this, a lot of those things from being built.

So I guess my question would be then, why would they want, if it's that limited, then why would they want to change the zoning?

Yeah, so right now it's DDH. Only permitted by right use in DDH is single family housing. And so just they'd have to tear it down. They'd have to rebuild it. But if they were, like I said, the majority of people they're trying to sell to have commercial interest. That is the only thing that really makes sense on property like this. It is something that just with the proximity to the intersection, all those different things, commercial is really the only thing that makes sense. But it doesn't. it doesn't mean that it would be buildable i guess like so i understand from their lens why they are pursuing it but i'm saying from our lens on the development staff side we don't know if they would be able to realize it if they did if they opted to tear down the building or like make the necessary adjustments to it like we just don't know if it'd be feasible i just have some consternation granting our white broadest

zoning designation that allows the most uses when we have near a very high traffic intersection when we have zero idea like what what allowable uses could could actually occur here that's I'm trying to get over that stumbling block right now I'm having difficulty you know if the applicant is here I do not

To piggyback on that, if we turned it down, it would not be with prejudice. I mean, there's no reason that this couldn't be brought up

For rezoning requests, there is how much time?

Yeah, so rezoning requests, I guess kind of from a planning commission, it's definitely a year. But I guess with this, I mean, a lot of the other things really do align with that, I guess, as far as the future land use and things like that. But like I said, I think our position is really on the development side. We just do not think a larger structure would really be able to be realized or constructed with a lot of the current things on the site.

If you need more information, you can postpone. We can provide that information to you. It's whatever you guys want to do. You can act on it tonight one way or the other, or do that if you feel that you need more information.

Justice, can you remind me of what LDD was allowed in LDD? Because there's LDD across College Street here on that corner.

Yeah, so LDD only enjoys commercial uses with a PDD overlay, and also has to have a neighborhood... neighborhood shopping center designation. And this just does not have the square footage to realize that I said this is, if anything, this this could be a poster stamp, I think they'd have to redo the building. But then with that any nonconformities, not even just just from a planning standpoint, but also from an inspection standpoint, they would also have to satisfy. I said, I think there's just a lot of nuances to this property that that would make it challenging for somebody to move forward with anything really kind of beyond office space, honestly.

So in your discussions with the applicant, that type of future use is not brought up, so you're not clear about their intentions at all?

So we've talked to them for several months. They were in the process of trying to get it together to sell it. Like I said, I think a lot of the outfits that we work with for people who are trying to sell property or do deals like this, they have designated real estate people that are used to working with this, kind of have things lined up. That is not the case. This is someone who works for the organization who's been tasked with, hey, we would like to sell this property. Can you facilitate that? And real estate's not what he does, kind of what he operates in. This is really just kind of something that he's been tasked with. So for this, to that point, they are still in the process of just selling it and trying to find a buyer for it. And pursuing CDD was a recommendation when they went forward and got a commercial broker, a real estate person. It was like, you have exclusive residential zoning. You need commercial zoning. And I think that's as far as they've really gotten. Okay. Thank you.

Anyone else? City manager offered an idea of a postponement. Is that interesting to everybody, or do we want to go ahead and vote?

Go ahead and vote.

Go ahead and vote.

I personally would be interested to hear from if the applicant were to be able to come to another meeting to be able to hear from the applicant themselves about potential uses, I'd give them a shot. So I would entertain a postponement if anybody else on the council would agree to that.

I'm fine with that. Got two people that would entertain a postponement.

I'm kind of intrigued by it now.

You need a motion.

All right. That's three of you. So I need a motion to postpone.

I'll make a motion to postpone to a date certain of October 6th, I believe, is the next council meeting. Second.

Motion is second to postpone to October 6th. Any further discussion? Questions?

Okay.

All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Nay. All right. What was that? Two nays. Two. Okay. All right. Two nays. So we'll hear this on October the 6th. Correct? Okay.

All right. Item 9D authorizes a moratorium on the conditional use approval of new lounges within the urban core, urban neighborhood west, and urban neighborhood east zoning districts. Unanimous consent is necessary.

I introduce the ordinance and ask for unanimous consent.

Second motion seconds. Anyone on the council have a problem moving forward with the vote on this this evening?

Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion that we postpone this item, uh, to a date certain of October 6th. Um, uh, so I'd just like to give time for downtown businesses affected, uh, possibly in the urban core that can hear from some of those businesses and, uh, and have opportunity to talk with them. So I propose a, a postponement to a date certain of October 6th. Second. All right. Second.

Now motion is the second to postpone to October 6th. Any comments or questions?

I don't believe a motion is appropriate. Just unanimous consent, right?

Yes.

We're denying, you know, no, you did not deny unanimous consent. So he's making a motion to postpone. It's just explaining why it's the same idea. So it works both ways.

Okay. Okay. All right. So we have a motion in a second, uh, to postpone to October 6th. Any comments, questions? All right. Do we need to take a vote on that? Yes, you do. All right. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, and that motion carries, and we'll hear this again on October the 6th. All right, resolutions.

Item 10A1 is a request for conditional use approval for a retailer of consumable hemp products for property located at 2900 East University Drive, Suites 120 and 125 in the Comprehensive Development District with a Planned Development District overlay. The project is known as Charred Oak Hemp. The Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of this request at its September 10th meeting. A public hearing is required.

Say for approval.

Second. I have a motion to second. At this time, I'll open the public hearing. If you'd like to address the city council, please come forward and give us your name and address for the record, and you have five minutes to speak to the council. I see no one. Close the public hearing. Any comments or questions from the council?

I'm just not in favor. Just put that on the record.

I have a question. Yeah, please. This business, how long has this business been in operation?

Don't know for sure for Charter Oak itself. The ownership has changed hands fairly recently to my knowledge. Justice, is that accurate?

It's been occupying that space for a number of years.

Quite a few years, but it's my understanding the ownership has changed. So the request, obviously we've had a state law change too, has only been made recently since the ownership change.

And to date that business has been successful as a liquor store?

Yeah, it's kind of a boutique-style liquor store.

It's been open for a while, this liquor store.

Yes.

Okay. Oh, yeah.

All right, any other comments, questions?

As many issues are, and it may require legal opinion here, but these products contain what's called THC, if I am not mistaken, and this is the active ingredient found in, Marijuana, except this is not marijuana. So we could go on and on about the scientific properties and the makeup of these things, but it is my understanding that they contain THC. Is that correct? Okay. So, uh, I hate to even use this example, but a guy named Rod Bramlett and his wife, Paula were killed, uh, around the corner, uh, on the Shug Jordan Parkway. by someone who had THC in his system in 2019. And that driver had very high limits or levels of THC. But to me, it doesn't matter. This is a step in that direction. And I certainly will not support this or the following item.

DAVID BURRAGE. Anyone else? All in favor, please say aye. DAVID BURRAGE.

Aye.

All opposed, please say nay.

Nay.

Motion failed. Item 10A2 is a request for conditional use approval of offices and commercial support uses, warehouse, maintenance shop, contractor storage yard, and fuel center to be located at 2901 Beehive Road in the Industrial Zoning District. This project is known as the Dixie Electric Cooperative Maintenance Shop. The Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of this request at its September 10th meeting. A public hearing is required.

Move for approval.

Second. Motion to second. I'll open the public hearing. If you'd like to address the council, please come forward and give us your name and address. For the record, you have five minutes to speak to the council.

Good evening. Lee Thorpe, CADRE Engineering for the applicant. I just wanted to come up and say we're excited about the project, let you all know we were here. If you have any specific questions about what's being proposed or anything like that, no issues from the Planning Commission comments and things like that from last week. So I'd be happy to answer anything you got. Thank you.

Yes, sir. Why don't you hear us go ahead and do it? Perfect. I have some questions. Okay. What's the lighting going to be on this?

We don't have a specific design on the lighting, but I can say there will be parking lights around in the event that they need to access the facility.

Can you work on those where you aim them away from that subdivision?

I think we can probably do something about that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Sir, and Councilman Dotson, the zoning ordinance also requires that they not shed light on adjacent properties, so I think both of those things can be addressed.

Correct. Uh, good point though. I appreciate that.

What about the fencing?

What, uh, so it's going to be, it'll be secure and behind the fence. Um, um, I'm assuming you're probably getting it kind of a buffering on that South side. Yes, sir. Um, so the intent is, I believe in the drawing right now, we've got a buffer that's beyond what's required in the zoning ordinance. So we would intend to be vegetated in some way. Now there's not a whole lot of trees on that piece right now. You know, that used to be a farm and operation. Um, so anything new would be planted and there's also a, I believe there are a couple of options we had. In the Planning Commission comments from planning about a particular barrier that we could put up, there's a couple of different options there, but it would be a solid screen.

There's a pretty good row of trees back there now.

And we'd want to keep as many of those as we could. I mean, it's a 15-acre piece of property. Yes, sir. I hear what you're saying. Yes, sir. We're going to try to maintain that buffer as best we can. Thank you.

Yes, sir. Are there rules in the industrial zone that –

hours of operation for like large equipment and trucks typically not it just depends on you know this similar to the Alabama power operation is where they are not typically they're operating late at night but in a storm event or a major outage event is when they have to dispatch crews from this location to get people's power back on and so I don't know and we do have also other representatives from Dixie in the room Dixie Electric Cooperative is part of the PowerSouth network, and a lot of people don't realize they serve a good bit of this side of the city and below Cox Road and so on. And so there's a lot of folks that are served by it. By the growth in Auburn, they are choosing to now put a maintenance facility here to be sure they can respond as quickly as possible to the needs of their customers in the area. But they can certainly speak to how often that is. Beth, I think it's mostly random and not a normal 24-hour cycle.

That's correct. I can speak to that a little bit. It is kind of a, not only to say in an emergency scenario, but in the event of like a storm event, lines go down, that kind of thing. Very similar to the power company. That's a good example.

And the fuel tanks will be buried.

Yes, sir. There are other operations, I believe Montgomery and Union Springs, I think it's a single 10,000-gallon, maybe it's a 7,000-gallon double-wall tank. It's underground. It's one double-sided pump. It's only used for them. So, yes, it will be underground. That's the current plan.

We appreciate you all relocating down there. I think it hit with the storms. We'll get damage on that side.

I believe this is in their service area right here where they're planning to build. So it's going to be real convenient for them. So it's going to be great. Thank you.

Yes, sir. Were you required to get an ADEM certificate?

Uh, they will have one once the facility is in operation, I believe they've got eight M certification across the board with their company. Um, as far as, uh, the specifics on the eight M permitting that they operate under currently in town, I don't have the specifics on that, but I do know that they are permitted.

You're referring to the feelings specifically councilman Mormon, you're referring to the feeling.

They will have to pull new permits on the install for that. Yes, sir.

We've had some correspondence about runoff and diesel fumes and all kind of things, and just one of the things that was mentioned was an ADEM permit, so I'm glad to know that's part of the process.

Yes, sir. They won't be able to put the thing in the ground without it, so we'll have to have it.

This fuel tank that you refer to, is that going to be located where it says fuel station? Yes.

Yes, sir. It'd be in that area, but it'd be underground. That's the current plan, yes, sir.

All right. And then on the property, it looks like you have a separate back line road. I think that's a road.

Yes, sir. It's a driveway. Just so you can see, and this is the plan you're looking at is kind of long-term build-out as their needs increase, right? So they've got... Just due to the nature of the business, they've got to have a good bit of open space for truck circulation deliveries. Sometimes they may have some transformers that they need to store somewhere, things like that. So that's for access just around the site, nothing public, nothing like that, all behind the fence.

So two curb cuts on Biltmore and two curb cuts on Beehive, is that right?

Yes, sir, but I believe with the most recent comments from engineering and planning commission, we're going to be limited to, I believe, one access on Beehive with the primaries being off of Biltmore, if I'm remembering that correctly.

Are either of these roads arterials? Beehive.

Beehive is.

So it's okay to put a curb cut on an arterial?

One exists there already.

If you can meet the spacing requirement.

Hold on. There you go.

If you can meet the spacing requirement. Okay. And the intent would be to obviously meet the spacing requirement from the intersection, but we would also do our best to align that with the road across the street.

Okay, so the curb cut down where it looks like a parking area down here, that's going to be eliminated?

Up on the corner right there at the intersection. Yes, sir, the one. Okay.

All right, thank you.

All right, any other questions?

Thank you all.

Yep.

Mr. Mayor, I have a procedural question. We all receive correspondence from a gentleman that asked that it be put into the record. Do we need to read that aloud, or do we simply provide that?

I talked to him. He's fine. It's just being submitted in the file. Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

No, that's fine. That's fine. I appreciate you bringing that up, Kelly. Thank you for bringing that up. Thank you, Tommy.

Thank you.

Yep. Okay. Anyone else? Public hearing is still open. Anyone else like to speak to the council on this?

Public hearing?

Any questions from the council? Comments?

Okay.

All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? And the motion carries.

Item 10A3 is a request for conditional use approval of a performance residential use of 24-unit multiple unit development to be located at 621 Stage Road in the Comprehensive Development District. This project is known as Old Stage Road MUD. The Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of this request at its September 10th meeting. A public hearing is required.

Move for approval. Second. We have a motion and a second. This time we'll open the public hearing. If you'd like to address City Council, please come forward and give us your name and address for the record. You have five minutes to speak. Oppose the public here. Any comments or questions from the dais?

What does this look like? This is taking, I think, there's an existing business park on Old Stage Road, and this is replacing that with some housing.

What, though?

Student housing, similar to what else can be found off of Harper Street.

An ADDU, like a bunch of them?

It can't be an ADDU by definition in the moment, and the planning director can address that.

Yeah, that is correct. And so what's being considered is a multi-unit development which allows multiple structures on one lot. But CDD expressly prohibits private dormitories. And so private dormitories is defined in the zoned ordinance, and that is something that will be heavily contested in DRT. That is something that the applicant is aware of, that we're having active conversations about of what the configuration, bedrooms, all those things, what the floor plans need to look like, like I said, layout, structure, how they're going to run the operation, all of those things will be contested and DRT will need to be verified for this to comply to meet the definition of a multi-unit development and not a private dormitory.

not an ADDU. That will not be allowed.

No. And I guess what they did submit did look like, you know, I guess kind of from a rendering standpoint or looked like houses. But like I said, we got multiple MUDs around town that have a variation of units. variation of housing types, just kind of up on North Dean, that was one of the most recent ones, Creekside stuff, where there's going to be offerings and where they do look like houses, but like I said, it is all going to be on one lot, multiple structures on one lot, so 24-unit MUD.

Does staff have any concerns about, let's see, the parking required is 132 spaces. Does staff have any concerns about... the added traffic that this development would bring to the old stage road?

Yes, sir, we do. That was one of our comments. So we wanted to project to see what the background level of growth would be on that corridor. Basically, at east of Village Drive, you had 725 vehicles per day, average daily traffic, and then past that was 1,500. So it's classified as a local today. But with those numbers, that's not acting as a local. So we've requested the developer to turn in a independent traffic study to verify what kind of counts we're going to experience in that area just because of those types of housing units and those parking requirements.

got two things you got where old stage road comes out onto opelika road with a very narrow railroad crossing right there and then you've also got you've already approved the design contract for all of you know dean road at opelika road which stretches down to glen avenue so we're also dealing with old stage road and stage road itself You're likely to seize an outcome of that study. People can turn left onto those streets, but they will no longer be able to turn left out of those streets or go straight across because of very, very high-speed collisions and other things that happen in that vicinity. That's a possibility. Is that correct?

That's correct. Yes, ma'am.

So that will be built into the studies if that's already happening.

In theory, what are we looking for in that study?

When we receive it so I will be able to get a better idea what the total daily traffic count would be post development and if there are any responsibilities for the developer to do any improvements or are situated along that right-of-way that we feel are necessary that meet that classification of roadway that they're presently on and that roadway just has not redeveloped and has been reclassified in any short term or intermediate term but as the city manager alluded to we are at 30 design on north dean and what she's proposed and what i've sent over basically is eliminated left out on the dean because we do have a higher than normal accident background occurrence right there so that that is part of the plan and we want to take that into consideration when we study this development okay

Does a development that's this size, would they be required to contribute to the infrastructure improvements that we're looking at on Dean?

Potentially, yes, ma'am.

We're going to see what the study says because a joining developer has added a lot of units in that area that are now ingressing and egressing this way. That is Summer Hill, correct, what I'm thinking of off of stage. And Summer Hill is seeing a good uptick in traffic, and that's where the Haygood Cleveland Pierce office also comes out on Glen Avenue. We're seeing a lot of changes to that area. intersection as well, and all of those other side streets, Cook to Bartle Haven, et cetera, in that area. So we're looking at all of that because patterns have changed by the density changes in the area.

This used to be mainly an office park, light industrial park. The information is showing 120 beds will be built here. Do you know how many people on an average day would work there? Is there any data provided you guys for that?

No, there have been a couple of business owners that come out to the Planning Commission to speak, though. That's when they found out.

All right. Should the traffic study come back with certain numbers, then you would require the developer to mitigate the impact of traffic. Is that? Yes, sir. Yeah.

That's something that the developer has been aware of from day one in the initial pre-application meetings, correct?

Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir.

Thank you. Looking at the assessment here, it says that the future land use was supposed to be mixed use two. And it says that that will, let's see here, focuses on retail and adaptive use of existing structures. Residential uses are permitted in integration with retail uses that are lower intensity. So I don't see any reuse or any retail, either one. So it's contradictory to the future land reuse plan. So what's going on there?

Yeah, so great question. So the mixed use two and the future land uses there. So mixed uses doesn't have to all be incorporated in one project. It can be mixed vertically and horizontally. So that entire area over there is really, a lot of the residential doesn't start until you get up into the neighborhoods on the Summer Hills. So this is really going to be the first introduction of residential. that i guess there is the existing um apartment complex i think on the other side but this this project does conform with the mix with the mixed use intent across the entire area really kind of looking at that area not necessarily just that parcel and i think that is something that sap is very sensitive to If we were to get multiple ones coming, that is something that we'd probably push for closer to the intersection that would have a mixed-use component. But this one just being an exclusively residential one in the ecosystem of the area on Old Stage Road over there does comply.

I don't see how we can look beyond what we're supposed to be considering tonight. And the thing that we're supposed to be limited to is a piece of property that's on the agenda. and there's certainly no retail or adaptive use or, um, you know, included in, in what we're being presented. So, yeah, I hear you.

I just, I don't know. Retail on that little stretch of old stage road seems pretty awkward to me. Um,

for a place to put a retail establishment I mean there's I know there's some offices over there there's Auburn Electric is over there there's a construction company yeah so retail it's a it's a hodgepodge mix of uses back there it's really diverse from a zoning standpoint MDRD you got CDD CRD ease there's a lot going on back there but like I said I think everything from light industrial, so you've got other commercial establishments, and there's a gym over there. There's a lot going on, like I said, I think, but just retail that far inland, not really near an intersection. I guess there's a lot of traffic of people driving through it, but I think if it were closer to the intersection or enjoyed a corner lot, that is something that we would have a lot stronger position on, kind of pushing for a mixed-use component there. But I think this far inland against the railroad, like I said, I think mixed-use across the broader ecosystem is fine for staff.

It was rezoned in Yule Senior Packets in 2019 as an outcome of the Harper Avenue focus study and CDD kind of to a point that we have much later on the agenda about the rewrite of the zoning ordinance. Some of these things will change over time. To Councilman Griswold's point, and one challenge for the planning staff is the land use plan is often ahead of our zoning ordinance. Part of this alignment with the zoning ordinance rewrite should get a lot of that trued up and you'll see more zoning districts. And right now you're caught in that area between the land use plan and a very broad zoning district.

Where I get a little comfort from the issue that Councilman Griswold brings up is in the commentary there where it speaks there's a sentence there it says this development is not located on a major transportation corridor therefore the importance of mixed-use development both horizontal and vertical is more subdued and that for me speaks to its location relative to the Opelika Road for sure.

All right. Any other comments? Okay. All in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Nay.

We may need a, why don't you do an individual vote just to make sure we get it right.

Okay, we'll do an individual vote.

Or you can raise hands or do whatever you wish.

We'll do an individual vote. That's better. Yes. Yes. Yes, ma'am.

No, ma'am. No, ma'am. Yes.

No.

Yes. Yes.

Okay, motion carries. Item 10A4 is a request for conditional use approval for a retailer of consumable hemp products for property located at 2328 South College Street in the South College Corridor District. This project is known as Tiger Spirits Hemp. The Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of this request at its September 10th meeting. A public hearing is required.

Move for approval. Second. Motion to second. We'll open the public hearing. If you'd like to address the council, please come forward and give us your name and address for the record. And you have five minutes to speak. Any comments or questions from the council?

I want to correct. It's the Comprehensive Development District, not South College Corridor. It doesn't matter. I just want you to know the district.

I think this use works particularly in this location. I'm sensitive to Councilman Mormon's feelings regarding the consumable hemp products. However, the the state has weighed in on what is tolerable as a consumable hemp product vis-a-vis its THC content. I would have a question about how I know our sister city has run into some issues with people appearing to not meet the requirements of the state and I would I'd like to know how we go about in the development of if this should pass. Where is the oversight and perhaps enforcement component to products contained in such a building?

Real quickly, before I have the city attorney weigh in, I'll remind you that our business license ordinance is set up very differently than our sister city's business license ordinance. This council did not give itself the opportunity to pull business licenses for certain reasons other than what's outlined in state laws. That is one major difference in the enforcement piece that may be invoked by another city in terms of our ability to enforce mainly resides with the ABC board.

Yeah, the state consumable hemp product statute vests the ABC board with exclusive regulatory control over the products that are sold, the labeling requirements for those products, the licensing that has to be carried to sell those products under the ABC board's regulations. And so ABC is in charge of that regulation. Now, this council did pass an ordinance adopting its own regulations its own regulations regarding consumable hemp product locations within the city. There is a limited provision within that ordinance that would allow this council to remove a business license if the operators of a consumable hemp products location are engaged in other nefarious activities, other illegal activities. But that's very limited. It does not expand to the actual products that are sold, the labeling of them, the THC content, et cetera.

Thank you. Any other questions? I share Council Mormon's concerns, but I don't think I can justify cherry-picking which ones we get it and which ones don't.

I think in terms of the conditional use component of this, I think location plays a strong part. We had an applicant early on in the adoption of this use. I thought... appropriately placed off of a main corridor on Opelika Road and the South College corridor mirrors that to some degree if not more of the urban the more commercial, I should say, component of South College there. We don't have a lot of housing there. We don't have significant neighborhood presence there. We have a commercial corridor, and for that reason, I'm fully supportive of it.

Is this one a little different in the sense of only part of the building will be used to the consumable hemp product, or is it like a package store where they're going to have it mixed in? Do we know the answer to that?

Yeah, so that would be something that would be specified on the ABC license. Give me a second.

It looks on the drawing that it's only a portion of the building.

The drawing that is just our site plan location?

Yeah, but that's just the... That's just their space there, Leeson.

Oh, okay. This is right down at West Veterans Boulevard and South College in the same center where Penny George's kitchen is. This is the end cap. It was like Bar 51 years ago and some other things. It's on the very end cap. I think it's been a cigar shop. It's been a few other things.

Any other questions? Have we approved... Retail of consumer products.

I'm sorry. This is the opposite wrong side. It's the Philly connection space I apologize flip it around

I'm sorry. Have we approved sell of consumable hemp products to any other applicants that also sell liquor and beer?

Not to my knowledge as of yet.

Vape and Jays is the only consumable hemp products approval this council has given.

And it is exclusively?

Consumable hemp products.

Okay.

Any other questions?

All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Aye. Why don't we do a roll call again?

Adams?

Yes.

Koblentz?

No.

Dawson? Yes, ma'am. Griswold?

Yes, ma'am. Borman? No, ma'am.

Parsons? Yes. Taylor? No. Bitton?

No.

Aye. That's a 4-5 fail.

So that one also fails. Okay.

All right.

Item 10B1 is sense to the vacation of a portion of a public sanitary sewer easement located at 1803. Can I pass? And also authorizes the mayor and city manager to execute a quick claim deed contemplated by the vacation. A public hearing is required.

Move for approval. Second. I have a motion and a second. This time we'll have a public hearing. If you'd like to address the council, please come forward and give us your name and address. For the record, you have five minutes to speak to the council.

Hi, Mayor and Council. My name is Jason Breaux. I live at 1799 Kenai Pass, which is the property adjacent to this. I had attended a Planning Commission meeting back in November when they were approving the plot for everything, and I had some concerns then with erosion and runoff because they've built the property very highly, and there is a slope down into my property. I had met with Dan Croudis, had come out before Christmas, kind of agreed that I was asking for maybe a retaining wall or something so that it didn't run off into my property. At that time, he agreed. They were going to send someone out. I've made contact, I think, in March a few times, in April as well, but got no response back. Those concerns are still there. I've got pictures if you want to see erosion. water runoff. There's a large pine tree that is right on my fence line inside on their property or city's property. I'm not sure how that easement works. That has been eroded out from underneath that I'm concerned with as well. And then there is a large storm drain pipe that runs right under my property to the back. And so I'm just concerned with if that were to block up, where is the, how would they get to that drain if that property is sloped all the way down and there is nowhere for it to go or trucks to get back there to look at things like that. And so that's kind of what my major concerns are with that. I would ask if you can delay the vote to look at the property and evaluate. I understand, you know, Houston's, you know, it's a, It's one of their major, their pricey lots because it is on the lake right there. But it does impact my property as well.

Thank you, sir. We appreciate your comments. Anyone else like to address the council?

How many questions from council? I'll make a motion we continue to date certain in October with a second. Second.

Motion second.

To the October 6th meeting?

Postpone to October 6th. Yeah. That's basically how we do it.

May I have one point of clarification? Absolutely go forward with postponement. I do want to clarify this has nothing to do with storm drainage. Sanitary sewer easement, I wanted you to just be clear that the sanitary sewer easement, there's no sewer line in it, so it's to abandon that. Totally fine to postpone, but I wanted you to be clear that this is not about stormwater in terms of the easement action. I can't have Eric Carson explain to you if you would like to do that tonight or proceed with a postponement that we have been out, including sending somebody today at your discretion, Councilman Dawson.

I would still like to postpone it to October. Yes, sir. No, no, that's totally fine.

I want to make sure you have information.

I'm pretty comfortable with what's going on anyway. Yes, sir. Thank you.

Any other comments or questions?

And we have had someone go out? Yes. If you want to explain before you vote, if you guys have that question, just so you know what's going on in the moment to ask further questions moving forward, that's fine. It's up to you, Councilman Dawson.

Go ahead.

Eric.

Certainly. As Megan said, this is a platted sewer easement. At one time, sewers contemplated there and it was never installed and therefore it's not needed now. So the property owner approached us about vacating it and we were fine with that and that's why we presented it. I am aware that the citizen has raised concern of erosion and our watershed division did. to respond and look at the site and didn't find any issues at the time. And of course, Dan Kralis in engineering did respond as well. As my knowledge today, there's a grass swell there. I didn't see, staff has reported they haven't seen anything significant at this time from an erosion standpoint. But as far as storm water quantity going down there and causing other damage, I'm not aware of that and have not investigated that. That would be engineering's.

I think we'll be happy to have engineering reach back out in this interim period should you choose to postpone.

Yes, ma'am. I think that would be best. Somebody from there can go out.

City engineer's got it down, and he'll take care of it and get Mr. Krause to follow back up. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. We've got a motion second to postpone to October 6th. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. We'll hear this again in three weeks. All right.

Item 10B2 accepts a statutory warranty deed from the Owens Family Partnership LLC for property located at the northeast corner of the intersection of Shug Jordan Parkway and North Donahue Drive and approves compensation for the use and acquisition of property in the amount of $980,000 for the North Donahue Widening Project Phase 1.

Move for approval. Second.

All right. We have a motion and a second. Any questions or comments from the council? Okay. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? And the motion carries.

Item 10C1 authorizes a design contract with Foresight Group LLC to design the city's portion of the Yarbrough Farms Boulevard extension project in the amount of $344,656. Move for approval. Second.

Motion second.

Comments, questions?

Are there any other studies going on by the developer or the city schools analogous or similar to this?

So the city schools are doing their portion of the road. When we discussed the foundry, there's a portion being built by the schools. There's a portion that Mr. Jolly with the foundry is working on, and this is a portion kind of right where those two sections meet. And so... They've both done their own work. This is the engineer in common with Mr. Jolly's property. And I believe we have a separate engineer for the school piece who happens to be sitting in this room as well. And there's also the North Donahue Drive engineer. So this is the piece where we have to cross and do some other work. And I think you purchased some credits earlier dealing with this as well.

And this is for the design of that and to whatever costs are constructed. So not a study.

This is for the design and construction.

The exact design, correct. Not a study. Okay. Just want to clarify that it's not a study.

That's correct. This is the design.

Thank you.

This is the one where this was, I call it a little bit of no man's land. It was between both development areas.

Does this include the bridge? Yes, ma'am. Instead of the bridge, we're proposing a 95-foot wide precast buried culvert. It's a cost savings rather than a bridge in and of itself. So it's a cost savings to the city, basically. Thank you.

As far as a schedule of deliverables, is that applicable in this contract? Do we have a schedule that we would?

We do. It is inside the proposal. Based on the time requirements on the contract, they didn't put specific dates, but I went ahead and prepared that in case we were asked. The 100% plans, based on their schedule, would be delivered by March 19, 2027, and construction, based on their schedule here, would commence on July 13, 2027. Thank you.

Any other questions? Okay. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.

Item 10C2 authorizes a contract with White & Smith LLC doing business as White Smith Casino for the zoning ordinance update in the amount of $349,154. Move for approval. Second. All right.

We have a motion to second. Any comments, questions from the council? Yes.

Yep. Okay. I don't know about the other folks, but I've been telling people for quite a while now, the city's in the process of updating the zoning ordinance. And so when I saw this agenda item, I was real encouraged until I started looking at the timeframes. We're talking about October of 2028 before we have something that's usable, something that we can present to the public. So it may just be me, but I felt like I have... Severely underestimated the work that has been done to date. And in fact, I believe I've, well, I thought this was much more of a near-term task. I was just blown away the fact that October of 2028 for a zoning update that we've been touting and talking about for, I don't know, what, a year? So anyway, I'm just disappointed in it. That's all. We have to do it. I mean, it's got to be done, but this is the only way to get it done. But I just, I can't believe that we have used up so much time and effort and we're just now getting around to awarding a contract for this duration.

We have been working with them on a separate contract that was a smaller contract to get the scoping done. They're working on moratorium items, and we had to get all these modules aligned to actually do the work. They are ready to hit the ground running. A lot of these modules can be adopted as they come along as long as they don't interfere with other things. So, yes, it is an arduous process and challenging. At least one person sitting at the dais was working at the city at the time we built this zoning ordinance. I have another staff member in the audience. And the 1984 ordinance, when it came along, took multiple years to implement because we also have to continue to allow people to develop while we're rewriting an ordinance. So, no, it's never ideal, but this is also something there isn't enough staff time with our current project load by development going on in Auburn for the staff to undertake this on our own. So we've got to work with consultants. They need to meet with stakeholders in the community, and we need to spend adequate time. That's our citizens and everyone getting this right.

So is that just this particular firm, or have you reached out to other firms to see could their timeline be a...

This is a firm. We've vetted multiple firms. This is the one that has experience that we are... most in line with about how they go about this methodically. Our planning director has worked with them in a previous city and feels comfortable with their capabilities and the timeline.

Yeah, and so I would say just kind of as a reminder, when it came up, just kind of how long it would take from a moratorium standpoint that it would take about 18 months to kind of update anything on the moratorium. And really, if anybody proposed a timeline for the entire scope of the zoning ordinance to modify that, I do not think from a professional standpoint that they would be truthful about being able to deliver that. I just don't think that's a pace. I think what we're talking about isn't just hodgepodge amendments to different zoning ordinance. We're talking about special development standards. We're talking about how those interact with different things in the engineering manual, water resource manual. I mean, there's a lot that has to be considered, has to be reviewed. And so it's not that there won't be text amendments to the zoning ordinance that come forward in the meantime that are unassociated with this. Those things can happen and can happen and be very nimble. But this is a wholesale redo, I guess like a rewrite of the zoning ordinance and contemplating all of it. The complicated part is how it interacts and how it interacts with the engineering manual, water resource manual, how it actually impacts things on the ground, development process, special development standards. There is a lot to it. I think those are the complaints that you guys get. I think one of the main things is, one of the biggest complaints is if you go through our zoning ordinance and you want to do a single thing, there's maybe five or six different controlling points in the zoning ordinance that people don't know which one is relevant. And so it's those things and those nuances that have to be examined and have to be thoroughly examined and then also corrected and also understanding whatever we take out of that spider web, understanding its ripple impact. So I don't think anybody who would have proposed anything under two years on a scope of this size would be truthful or accurate.

I think one other key component is a number of you have asked over the years for certain things to be looked at. Landscaping is certainly one of those, saving tree canopy, those types of things. And so to take a comprehensive look at those in terms of how that works, what your tolerance is for those as a city council member, weighing the rights of property owners, all those things have to happen in here. And I can tell you I was not working here in 1984. My understanding is there were a lot of of public hearings and a lot of consternation about changes to the zoning ordinance at the time. And so it takes a while to get through that process. And this is a heavily involved process with the council, the planning commission, the public developers, property owners, et cetera.

I do think it's important to note in here as well. the extensive amount of time for community engagement that's listed through here that community open houses stakeholder meetings including a total number of six so this is where It's important to note that the community will have multiple opportunities to be a part of this process before we look at it That's correct.

And I think as the planning director just stated, there are other things that are not going to wait. Moratorium stuff is not waiting. That's why it's in a very early module. There are other changes that may need to be made or adjusted along the way, and those will not wait when they are necessary in the moment to move through.

Okay. I think that's fair.

Okay. Well, module two is zoning districts and use regulations, which seems to me the bulk of the... of the work, frankly. And it says that, according to the schedule, that's in, let's see, January, February, March, May of 27. Now, module one, we're going to adopt all those things at the conclusion of module one. But module five, which is, like I say, I think it reads as if it's the bulk of it, we're going to what, incrementally do that? Are we gonna set that aside until the final report's ready and whenever?

Yeah, that is correct. So the urban core, urban neighborhood west, things associated with a moratorium on an expedited timeline, and so that is how that one is getting approved. kind of all at once and everything else kind of how you look at the changes you'll you identify the changes that we want but then there's actual the special development standards the like i said the nuances of the buffer yards landscape and all those other things that that those items touch that needs to be understood before we come before you all with, hey, we'd like to change this. This is a setback that we'd like to change, et cetera, et cetera. There are many things in the zone ordinance that it touches that needs to be checked and thoroughly checked, not just kind of from us, but also from the development side of kind of how they view it. And so that's why those things are going to, those things may be conceptualized, but they need to be understood kind of from an administration standpoint before they can be adopted as a whole. And so that's why there's a large gap between identifying what that concept is and then the vetting of that and then adopting it.

Well, obviously we have to have this contract because we can't do it in-house, but I want to apologize to everybody that I've misled by saying that we were really actively pursuing zoning changes and we ought to be able to see some results soon because obviously we're not going to see that. So I do apologize for those of you that I have misled.

You know, if there's one thing in our community that's frustrating to users and citizens, it's understanding how planning and zoning works. It's almost daily that somebody's got a question for me about how does this work. There are people in the audience that are going to speak to us in a little while that Understanding how that works is very challenging and so we have handed today's employees Who are all so qualified and so smart and so capable this voluminous zoning manual and said fix it and It's just not easily done and they're having to redo 50 years of work that has been incrementally built up and so It's important. It's it's one of the things Megan and I have been talking about since the day she was hired is trying to get this to where the common person can have some kind of reality of understanding what it says and what the, what the outcomes could be depending on if something's going to be near them or they want to do something themselves or whatever it might be. And so I know this is frustrating and Kelly, I respect where you're coming from, but we got to get it right and we need, uh, trust that the people that we brought on to help us can help us get there. And in the meantime, we're going to continue to deal with projects that want to get done in Auburn. And that's not stopping. And so y'all have got to multitask every day trying to get things done. And so I really hope and, you know, I think we all have great hope that in a couple years we're going to have something we can look at that's going to be really, really workable for our community and make doing business in Auburn simpler and give us better, give us better for our community. So I appreciate all the efforts of y'all going through. Hang in there.

Did I understand that there's a Module 1 briefing in November for the council?

That's what it says in here. We will be moving toward that with the new council.

Got you. Okay. Any other comments? All right. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? And the motion carries.

Mayor, those are all the items of business we have for you this evening. Okay.

At this time, we'll open Citizens Open Forum. If you'd like to address the city council, please come forward, give us your name and address for the record. You'll have three minutes to speak. I ask that you address your comments to the council, and I ask that all of us that are here tonight be respectful so that we can hear everything that they are saying. Who will be first? I'll be first. Okay.

Good evening, everyone. My name is Letitia Smith. I'm the current president of the NAACP Lee County Branch 5038, and I reside here in Auburn at 2262 Heritage Ridge Lane. As you know, at the last City Council meeting, several of us stood before you, myself included, and I shared how deeply concerned and disappointed I was about how we handled the approval of the redevelopment of the Chateau and Le Mans Square apartments. I said then that while I understood the importance of growth in Auburn, I also stated that I believe that the progress should not come at the expense of our most vulnerable residents. However, I wanted to come here today to say that since the last council meeting, I have had an opportunity to have a conversation with both Councilwoman Connie Taylor and Councilwoman Beth Whitten, and at the end of the day, Although we may not all agree how we got here and how things have been handled to date, we do agree on one thing, and that is that the residents of Chateau Apartments and Lamont Square need some assistance. And whether that's free application assistance, moving assistance, security deposit assistance, credit bearer assistance, or whatever assistance that they may need, we do all agree that some help is needed. So at the end of the day, we must remember that the residents are fine where they were. They did not ask to move. They do not want to move. So providing some level of assistance at the minimum is the least that we can do. Auburn should be a community, a city where growth includes everyone, not just a city where long-time residents are left behind in the name of progress. So I believe that everyone gets it. And now that we're going to work together, so I just want to say thank you. I've also had some conversations with some other residents who have been concerned about community erasure. Community erasure is real. And there are some other proactive conversations going on about how we need to work together to protect and preserve some of the other areas in our community as well. So just know that residents are being displaced from their homes and being forced to relocate is not good. Longstanding neighborhoods being redeveloped without preserving the existing community is not good. And cultural landmarks, gathering places, or historic sites not being demolished is not good. So we want to work together collectively to meet the needs of our community. So what I would like to see, Mayor Anders, you are designated to convene a publicly advertised town hall meeting that focuses on affordable housing, housing insecurity, and resident displacement. This would allow all residents, housing providers, nonprofit organizations, developers in the city to come together and work collaboratively. This would give the residents a voice, it would create transparency, and it will allow you to hear directly from the citizens. So I think it would be a great thing. I appreciate the work you've done today, and congratulations on your new grandbaby. Thank you.

Who will be next? Yes, sir. Good evening.

Good evening. My daughter told me I did not dress for the occasion. I did not. I'm sorry. You did, but it's okay. I came from school and from practice. But my name is Chad Cunningham, 516 Owens Road. I have spoken with a number of you over the course of the past week and a number of the folks up here, and I appreciate all the conversations that I've had, and I thank you for that. I'm not going to reiterate them particularly because I only have three minutes, but I did send you all an email about the Meadows Platte that I am concerned about still, and I think a number of my neighbors are. and the outlet onto Sanders right in front of Kerry Woods Elementary School. And I'm here tonight to just reiterate looking at that and my advocacy for it. I have a petition circulating in the neighborhood. We're up to 274. Once it gets to a million, I'll be bringing them here. But what I wanted to say to you tonight in like the two minutes that I have sort of where we're at and sort of how I guess I feel and maybe some of my neighbors feel When you do start putting together, like, stakeholder meetings for this rezoning stuff, sign me up. I volunteer to think about some of this. Because here's where I am. I've had wonderful conversations with you all, and a lot of you up here. Mr. Adams, I gave you the weekend off, I know. I appreciate that. Dr. Abbey had a birthday, so God bless her. But don't worry, you'll be hearing from me this weekend. But... I'm concerned thinking about steps forward when we have a moment like this, I think, in communities where there is a lot of sentiment and there is a lot of pulse, right? And we find out about it maybe a few days beforehand to give us enough time to gather our thoughts and to go to a meeting. And we're rightfully told sort of the extent and the authority of that commission is not really, is not one that takes pulse and sentiment into consideration in some respects, right? And that I can have conversations with folks like, and again, I'm gonna, Compliment Mr. Cotton to the highest extent, Mr. Griffin. I mean, that man was on the phone with me the other day after hours. I feel like I could be the deputy city engineer now. Um, and I appreciate everything they've said. My concern still to date is that things are going to simply be data driven and I that's all well and good to an extent, but what makes communities communities is that it's data. and sentiment that come together. That's what makes us belong here. That's what makes us the loveliest village on the plain. And there's no place for the sentiment to come out well, I don't think. And that's why I'm here to tell you that's the direction I'd like to see things go. And as we overhaul things, think about that as a possibility. Because it's not that that is all bad, but it's not everything. It's not everything. And so I appreciate you all. God bless you. Have a wonderful night.

Thank you.

Who will be next?

I live at 750 North Cary. I know several of you in here and several of you I don't. I thought I'd have five minutes, not three, so I had prepared statements. I'm not even going to go into it. It would take too long. I just want to sort of follow up on what Chad was saying in our neighborhood and our concerns. for the Meadows development, the proposed Meadows development. And I think it's the same issue that he points out that I'm pointing out basically is the speed with which things operate in terms of the way the city works and the lack really of citizens knowing what's happening before the fact rather than after. I'm still confused a bit I think in terms of what the procedure is for, and I know I'm not the only one, And I've learned a lot in the last week, let me tell you, from talking to Bob and talking to Kelly both. But I'm still sort of in the dark about the procedure in terms of what happens next. I keep getting mentioned that, well, you will have no say as a council on what proceeds in that space, despite public sentiment. That's one thing I've heard. Another is to contact the planning department that it all starts there. So my proposal, I think, just off the top of my head that I hit the other day, was the idea of a communication increase between citizenry and elected and appointed officials is to have a liaison, an office, even if it's only one to two people or a small office that's funded by the city, that it's hired by the city, it's not a volunteer situation, that its purpose is not to work with a developer, not to work in that capacity, but to work as a liaison to the communities. I know we're getting to the point in terms of the growth of our town, to possibly realize that we need more formal advisory neighborhood councils or someone as a point person in an official capacity, perhaps, to be able to have a city official, their job and mission would be to communicate with these people. It would take the pressure off of you, I think, to a big extent, probably, because I know what you guys are going through in terms of getting the brunt of our emotion. The planning council meeting was a slap in the face to a lot of people when we came in expecting to have some sort of say and result, and finding that we had none, really, essentially. and that all the communication that was happening was between the developer and the Planning Commission, and we had no chance to have secondary questions that were presented by us. So I'm just hoping that, and I'm just throwing that out there, I'm gonna get all of this in writing and I'll send an email with my thoughts to everyone elected, um uh paid staff uh as as well as appointed uh officials in the city and i hope you i hope my my uh you my hope is that you'll look into that uh i've learned a lot tonight even more so than i did before i came in here so i appreciate your time thank you so much thank you i will say um mr donald um we do have a neighborhood specialist

And so earlier this evening we were introduced to the new liaison, Parker, right? Correct. Yes. And so I have found that has been a great position that has helped bridge the gap of communications. I will say I think it's probably easier – utilized through HOAs and I recognize that Cary Woods doesn't have a formal HOA but I think moving forward now that if there's some designated kind of neighborhood individuals who would take up that mantle for Cary Woods it would be a much easier way for that individual to communicate with y'all but that position actually already exists and so Yay, we've already accomplished one thing for you.

Can I ask another question? Yes. Is his position in terms – I mean, is there – there's formal communication with HOA individuals through those HOAs currently? Yes, yes.

And so, like, things that are happening in those neighborhoods, usually they – that position usually communicates directly and says, hey, FYI, this is coming down the pipeline or this is happening in the city as a whole that you may find of interest. So I have found it to be very effective in helping me communicate with my citizens in Ward 3.

Okay, and I think in our case, that's not anything that we had any idea existed.

Right, so I think the gap there is that formal HOAs, it's easier to communicate with than neighborhoods that don't typically have formal spokespeople.

Okay, I mean, most of my communication with the citizens in my neighborhood has been, and some out of the neighborhood, has been through social network and not through any sort of official means with city officials.

Yeah, but she would be glad to get your information. Okay, and who is it again?

Her name's Parker Nelson. She's in the back waving right there. And so we'll give her one break. She just started right after Labor Day, but Allison Blankenship that's sitting right next to her was our longtime neighborhood specialist and then director of city relations. She's our director of communications now, but they all work under the umbrella of the office of the city manager in our communications role, and that is our whole idea. And so they're happy to work with Neighborhoods who function differently, Payne Street for many years, they don't have a formal association, but they have some neighborhood leaders that communicate, even if it's door-to-door, smaller streets, and Kerrywood's quite large. But we're happy with different sections to do whatever we can, contact information. If there's an email list going, we won't advertise for the neighborhood, but if she gets that information and people want to receive it, She'll share it. This is what it's about, is to try to be that liaison. And if you have questions, go back to that person. Problem solved.

I mean, I don't know who to contact now.

Yeah, and that's for anything. There's a stormwater problem, a crack in the sidewalk, or whatever it is. If you're not sure, she'll help direct you.

Thank you. Okay, thanks a lot. That's great to know that. And once again, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Who will be next?

Good evening, Councilman. I am Dr. Joanna Abram. I reside at 206 Timberdale Court. I bring the same concerns that the previous two individuals have spoken upon as well. My concern is that, yes, I'm originally from here, yes, I moved away, and yes, my family moved back here and chose Cary Woods for a particular reason, because of the safety and the protection and also the school system. My concern in reference to the changes that's... perhaps may take place. I would say it like that. My concern is the fact that how much is actually going to change based on what I signed up for when I came here and I moved here and I chose that subdivision. How much changes will take place? So I am concerned in reference to the safety and the protection. I am concerned in reference to I do know that things take place now. I do accept growth. I do accept the fact that that must take place as well because we are a growing city. that does take place. But we also have to take that into consideration that the individuals who have been here and who have gone to school here as well as returned back here, we came back for a reason. We came back for a reason. So I do understand and I love the fact that the city is growing the way that it is growing and progressing the way that it is progressing. But I also like the little village. I like that because I have lived in other places there was not a little village. And regardless of what people say, things do change. What goes along with that is that we have to take place and be mindful of the protection of our residents and the safety of our residents. So I thank you, Mr. Davidson, for always talking about the protection and safety of the residents. I truly thank you for that because that's one of the reasons why we moved back here and that's the main reason why we chose Carywood subdivision to live there. So thank you for also sharing the information regarding to the person who to contact and to speak to because I will be keeping my keeping an eye on things and things along those lines because that does bother me a great deal. Not only does it bother me, it bothers my family because we chose this area for a particular reason and now things are changing and I want to know how much is going to change in reference to that particular area. So when we look at safety, When we look at education, when we look at protection, we are here, my family is here, and I say that because I have two children who have also gone through the school system as well, and they went to college here, and they want to remain here, and they too are concerned about what's going to take place with Carrie Woods. That's a place where I used to walk them to school every day. They did not ride the bus because we live so close. I walked them to school every day, and I walked back to school to actually walk them back home. So this is also a place where I would walk every morning or every other morning. This is the lifestyle that we created in our home and in our subdivision. In addition to that, this is the same place where I used to run basically on Sanders and walk our two dogs. So when I say this is home for me, this is home and we have built a home. And so therefore now I am home. becoming concerned in reference to the possible changes in the area for the reason why we moved back here and the reason why we chose to stay here. And that also includes the upbringing of our children. So thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Abrams. Who will be next? Who will be next? Okay. We'll close Citizens Open Forum. Anyone on the council have anything they'd like to add?

I'd like to talk a little bit more about the Meadows development. Sure. I guess I also am learning more and more, even though I've been doing this for eight years now, about what the Planning Commission can do versus what the City Council can do. And one of the things that's really come up over and over again is health, safety, and welfare. And, you know, the Planning Commission is... bound by regulatory zoning and whatnot, and they try to do the letter of the law as to what's allowable and not allowable. But city manager forwarded me a letter or a memorandum from the Alabama League of Municipalities, and I am going to cherry pick a little bit out of there, but it does say that the Planning Commission can consider health and welfare of the subdivision dwellers, depending on adequate streets and then a variety of other things. to include limitation on access to highways. So I think there's some room in there somewhere, somehow for the planning commission to take into account some of these more emotional aspects of things. And I would encourage the mayor through his representative to try to see if we can adjust that because you're right there. I was there at the planning commissioner here in, um, resident after resident got up and spoke and yet they was kind of like, Okay, well, so what, you know, so your piece to go sit down. No answers were provided. So that was real disappointing. So I don't know something. I mean, there's some options that have been presented to me informally about rerouting the road network through that subdivision. I guess we are bound by some engineering guidelines about the space between curb cuts and that kind of thing out on North College. But I just have a question, I suppose, for you, through you. Are all those guidelines, are they waivable? I mean, if we find something that doesn't make any sense by having a dead-end road in a subdivision rather than have it come out to, say, North College, is that something that we can... Overrule.

Not something that the council can overrule.

Not the council. I'm talking about the staff and the city.

So in general, if there is flexibility there, it's based on engineering principles, guidelines, and so on. Because when you're talking about health, safety, welfare, you also have professional engineering ability to do things a certain way. So we're trying to balance a number of things. North College is a very busy street. Sanders Avenue has plenty of capacity to handle 41 houses. There is no argument about that. And so one of the challenges for staff is an emotional situation versus a technical one is challenging. It's not that we don't sympathize, but we also have certain parameters in which we have to work. So at the end of the day, there are flexibilities to move things around that to meet certain criteria and so on. But there's a lot of nuances that go with that. And so it's not something the city engineer typically waves things in connection with a developer when it makes sense per the regulations and how they read and how they're interpreted. But it's very nuanced.

Well, and I'm not talking about what we typically do. You know, I get aggravated when people tell me you can't do something, but they don't give us an alternative about what can you do in lieu of that. Obviously, it may not be a great deal of traffic from 41 homes, but dumping out a whole neighborhood right smack dab in the middle of a school drop-off and pickup area does not make a lot of sense. So there ought to be some ways to take a look working with the developer, working with the professional staff, working with the input from the community to find a way around that. I just, I don't understand. So who will be on the DRT for this particular project, the design review team?

That's a multi-departmental deal. It's planning, it's engineering, it's water resource management, it's environmental services, it's inspection services, often police and fire. Am I missing somebody? Sometimes Parks and Recreation gets in there, not necessarily on this one. And so it's a multi-department situation.

The other thing we're missing is citizen input.

So the citizen's input does not come directly into the DRT process. It's a technical process that is defined by the adopted zoning ordinance, the adopted subdivision regulations, the adopted engineering design and construction manuals, and our water and sewer design and construction manuals. So those were adopted by either the city council or the planning commission. And so we are matching projects against very specific city standards.

I would just ask that we take a look at these standards and understand that they're not absolute, that we can use some discretion and hopefully work everything out with the community and with the engineering community and the staff and everything. Because I know that, for example, I know the school district intends to have someone at these DRTs.

They will not have anybody present at the DRTs. Well, they should.

They should. And I was very disappointed with the school district for not having somebody at the planning commission, somebody, but they didn't jump up and speak up or even take the position of supporting the school or the students involved. So I, I guess, you know, I'm, I'm reaching the end of my, uh, my tour here with, uh, with, uh, uh, city council, but I don't think I've been more aggravated, more helpless feeling the whole time we've been up here for the last eight years. that we can't put something forward that is workable to the public and still satisfy some of these guidelines or at least find some compromise. So I just hope that through the DRT process, through the process of looking at a final plat, that not only the Planning Commission, but the city staff, the professionals, try to figure out a way to accommodate the safety of the school. The significant traffic impacts right smack dab in the middle of a school and the drop-off and pick-up location with school buses. I just hope that everybody will please take a step back and try to find a way to make this work. That's all. Thank you.

Kelly, I appreciate your comments, and I think that is what Ward 2 has seen out of you for eight years, your passion and your interest in uh, representing the people that, that you serve. Uh, myself and the city manager had a, I thought a very productive meeting with the school superintendent today. Um, we, we heard some of the ideas and thoughts that she had about this project. And, uh, I believe that we'll be carrying those forward. Uh, I've also been in touch with the developer, um, about where he stands on some of the challenges and issues that, that I've heard. Uh, I want to commend the people that I've talked to, um, they have been passionate, but they have been, um, mannerly. Um, they care deeply. This is a special school. I live right down the street. All three of my kids have been raised on Sanders street. And, uh, Carrie woods has been a special place to my family. And, uh, as I've watched my children ride their bikes and walk to school and come home. And so, Uh, I have the same interest that y'all do. I want to protect that sweet neighborhood school. Uh, I want to make sure that the people over there that are working every day with our children feel protected. And, um, um, so I'm, I'm, I'm passionate about trying to make, find a solution to some of these things. I also trust our staff and I trust their, I trust their education and I trust their experience. And I trust that they're going to listen to all the things that we say to them, including you from Kerry woods and that they'll put all that together and, and give us the best roadmap possible. I would encourage people that still are concerned about this to continue to reach out to your council members and the elected leaders and to reach out to our staff and share with them your thoughts and ideas. I appreciate Mr. Cunningham for, for actually coming up with some ideas for us. And, uh, Thank you. Even with that Opelika shirt on, it was still a good idea. But anyway, but thank all y'all and just know that from my standpoint, we're still working on this and I want to find a great solution for all of us. Anyone else?

Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I thought Mr. Cunningham inserting the word sentiment was, that strikes a chord with me. During this process of the Meadows, I've been fielding, as we all have been fielding, a lot of correspondence and communication with people. And from a council person's lens, we're in a situation where I really do not like to go, I don't know, that's my job. So in... Because in many ways I understand the lane that we inhabit and I try not to cross it too hard. But I guess I'm seeking advice about what would you have me do from a management side of... of when I receive those calls and I can offer a little solace to somebody, do I encourage them to continue directing their concerns to our staff? because I feel a little stuck in terms of what I, as a representative, can offer. So my offer to find relief for complaints is to direct them to staff?

We are certainly welcome to listen to any and all ideas. It's also, we are... We get stuck in our own ways. And what I mean is it's not our way of doing things. We are stuck by legal parameters set forth. And it's not to hide behind. It's not an answer the neighborhood wants. And it's agonizing for us at times, too. We are people with feelings and not robotic. And we hear the emotion. We hear the concern. We talk about it. We look at ways. We have done nothing but talk about this for months leading up to this. I think there's been some concern of why did staff know about this and not tell anyone. It's a very, very difficult position to be in because until an application is submitted, Officially by somebody who has the authority to submit it we had more than one suitor for this property for a while And so we can't publicly disclose. We don't have an application. We're talking in in theories We certainly tried to affect a lot of change. I think the developer listens I also if people have met the developer or have contacted him. I think that's also a good Avenue. We are a Listening we will continue to look at things. That's what we were doing today And it is it is not over but the final plat meeting is not a meeting where anything's going to change and that's one of the things back to education piece and As mr. Dunlap had talked about is a final plat is after the infrastructure is already in the ground The final plat is later And it's a nuance and a very technical thing we do. I think what's odd is in the state of Alabama, the city council has zero subdivision authority that was granted by the legislature directly to a planning commission. And the rules for subdivisions are made by the planning commission, but once they make those rules, they have to follow their own rules. And if they do not, we end up in court and the court says you have to approve this anyway. By no means am I saying the developer threatened to take anybody to court. It's not. It puts the council in a precarious situation as the staff does. So I was talking to the city attorney today about the health, safety, welfare provisions Councilman Griswold talked about and inquired about, and one of the challenging things is when you're talking about a conditional use, as you dealt with with the hemp uses tonight, you're looking at health safety welfare in one way as a reason to vote however you did. In a different way, it's a little more prescriptive. The air and light and other things it calls for in a subdivision regulation and the orderly Use of property is a very kind of defined very technical. There's got to be setbacks You can't do some crazy things and so it's very nuanced. We have a very intelligent public It's it's very challenging to understand and yes, there are limited things now if this had been a conditional use they were asking for greater density than 41 houses or other things that that triggered other things in the ordinance you would have a different input and But when somebody has a piece of property and they're developing it by the standards set forth, we don't get to move the goal line on them. The standards are set forth, they meet those, and we even as a staff are required to do that. Now, we're always happy to collaborate. And I think you have a reasonable developer here. He's been building a long time in Auburn, but this is his first full subdivision. And we will work together. We are listening and we will continue to do that. We're here for that. We want to embrace our citizens, and we also want to embrace the education pieces. I also believe I've been talking to the city attorney for some time about this notification. The neighborhood raises a good question about that. We are very stuck with some state standards about the dreaded certified letters. which we are required by state law to send. We are looking at ways that we can send by snail mail. We still have to send you the certified letters, but at least you get these sooner and you're not thinking, why is this thing at the post office I don't want to pick up? We're also looking for ways to put more information in our letters that go on property. They're very mundane and legal, and we have to say certain things, but we're working collaboratively to nuance those. We have a desire to talk to the public and give them the most information we can at the time we're allowed to provide it.

Thank you. Thank you, Megan, for that. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I've spoken already. You go.

I'm going to throw something out there, and this is a question to you. It might be a question to Paul. With regard to notification, I think this will probably elicit some further conversation after the fact, but is there anything that's preventing us from, you know, we have our legal notification requirements. Is there anything preventing us from being able to at the time that we issue that notification to also maybe have a place on the city's website where we post those notifications so that we can then...

So they are already in the newspaper, which is also a mundane requirement that we're... And I don't mind that some people read the legals.

And we have to do that, right?

We have to do that. And there's actually been legislation that allows us to do it otherwise. And so... We can look at things in tandem, and you were asking we have to continue to follow state law. We can look at that. There's one timing piece problem that we have is in the first few days after an application is received, we have to run an ad pretty quickly. We may be looking in the future into the developers in the room, I didn't say anybody was agreeing to this, at moving those deadlines further back. It gives us a chance to take a deeper look at a project before it becomes public. What happens sometimes is we get an application that's not complete, and we have to kick it off the agenda before anybody ever knew anything about it. And so we don't want to create consternation about a project we don't know anything about yet or enough about to speak to. So there's a nuance, but I think a lot is... coming this fall that we want to talk to you about and some of that is to give us a little more time to do some of the things you're talking about we're going to need a little more time and that has positives and negatives depending on who you are and how you feel about it and so those are things that we need to talk about this fall to see where the council lands and so all of those things are on the table megan can you speak real quickly about what could if they were if this developer were to max out this property what could they do there I'll have the planning director speak to that.

So they said in the meeting, I think for the product that they were trying to do, they could have got 70 lots and i think that's about like third of an acre lots but this is a ddh allows for performance subdivision if you dedicate enough open space from a density standpoint it's about five and a half times 19 put you over 100 so there could be 100 lots here single family housing permitted by right i think that triggers some other things from a density standpoint they'd be required to have a traffic study and things like that But that is what they would be allowed by rights. So if they met that standard, submitted the traffic study, mitigated appropriately of what the traffic study required, they'd be able to build over 100 units.

And that is not what this developer has ever proposed.

Correct. Yeah, yeah. No.

Yes. And the zoning on this property goes back to? 1984. 1984. Okay. All right. Any other questions, comments? All right. Is there a move to adjourn? So moved. All right. We're adjourned.