Town Council - Regular Meeting

meeting to order everyone please rise for the pledge pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you we'll let the record reflect all council members are present this evening and pastor brown would you like to start us off yeah let's go straight

diligent in watching over us. Father, we've got a meeting, business discussion tonight. We ask for your blessings on that. Also, with the free dance, that's free. I also just ask that you guide those in the

All right, we'll start with prior meeting minutes. We've got minutes from our July 27th meeting.

I'll make a motion we accept the minutes. I'll second that.

All in favor? Aye. We'll proceed with reports starting with John.

I'll start with the water utilities, the daily grounds testing and sampling and collecting and usage. All pretty good. Our production out of our wells so far this month of August, it's 502,610. Our average daily use is 50,261. Don't know if anyone's really noticed. I know Murray has. The detention tank top, water basin has been pressure sprayed and cleaned. We need the coat of paint. We were looking into some tanemic paint, like we painted on the water towers for it. Need about five gallons. I think they said it was about $174 a gallon. We haven't got a call back or nothing on that yet. I did forget to write something here. The two estimates in front of you are for boring that water line across County Line Road for David Castle. I forgot the address. 556 South. 600 South County Line. Mr. Bill's came in a lot cheaper. That is for just boring the line. So I don't know if you want to look at them or not. Do we have line already? We have plenty of lines. As for the wastewater utilities, daily grounds done, sample collecting, influent and effluent samples were collected, E. coli was collected for the month. Our basic average influent use for the month of July. was 111,643. That's what the lift station pumped to our legumes. Now, I actually just finished up the wastewater report, the EPA report, and our inflow going to our ponds for the month of July, with all the rain we had, almost five inches of rain, was only 3.4 million gallons to our legumes. Now, in May, when I started, We had 5.6M and we didn't have near the rainfall as we had in July. Now, the paperwork starting to pick up where I can't explain. I can bring that paperwork in next meeting and you guys can look at it and see. Sure. That's almost a 2M difference.

So it would seem like that. I did discharge last month. I shut it off on July 30th. We discharged around 600,000 gallons a day.

That's roughly around 440 gallons a minute with right around 7 million for our discharge for the month. Perky's heating and cooling, installed the mini split out there at the wastewater plant. There's some issues there. I don't think anyone wants to discuss anything.

What's going on with it?

I guess something around the building.

Hmm.

I can touch on that. Sure. So I got three invoices from Perky. One was for the 31. The other one was for the 13. And then I got a $10,000 one. And you guys actually didn't take a vote on that $10,000. I just need you to approve that.

That's for that? For the shop?

No, the $13,000 was for the shop. And then the other two were for the sewer.

so we approved the mini split but not another one that's yeah i put the invoices in your packet they pulled the wall over my eyes and you guys was because the estimates were there i had better i didn't have better estimates but i had other things efficiency two-time species

SUPPLEMENTAL WALL HEATER.

SOUNDS LIKE THEY PUT SOMETHING IN THAT WE DIDN'T.

WELL, WE NEED TO REVIEW.

I DON'T REMEMBER EVEN LOOKING AT AN AFFILIARY HEAT THING.

WE NEED TO REVIEW OUR PASS, OUR INVOICE, OR OUR ESTIMATES, BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WHAT I REMEMBER APPROVING.

WELL, THEY'RE BRINGING TO YOUR ATTENTION AND BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION TODAY. LEAST I INFORMED ART ABOUT ANOTHER MANHOLE I FOUND THAT WAS NOT LYING DOWN AT THE BALLPARK DIAMOND WHEN I WAS DOING THEIR LOCATES FOR THEIR TEAR DOWN DOWN IN DIAMOND IN MORRIS STREET IN MORRIS STREET NO THIS IS UM ON THE BALLPARK FIELD RIGHT BY THAT FLUSH HIKER THERE'S A MANHOLE THERE THAT WAS NOT EVEN They brought it to their attention. They said they'd get it when they get me a time to come off to do the other ones that they missed.

I'm not sure if that's ours.

That's not ours?

I'm not sure.

It's highlighted on that map.

I believe it is. Okay. I think that was installed once the ball diamond went on.

We have a map over there with everything. Another thing, I went down to Bill Kitchens and complained about the truck. It wasn't done up to par, in my opinion. They redid the doors and fixed the dents. There was a big dent on each door. I took the decals off for them, and they fixed the dent. So they called me at 3.30 today to pick it up. I haven't made it back. Sure.

Well, thank you for doing that. Appreciate you. It wasn't right.

We get any traction on these three storm drains we're going to do here right outside.

That's Luke. Luke was handling that street. He's just doing a little surround around it where the asphalt's crumbling away.

I didn't know if that was you, Brian.

No, it's a street thing. There's three right here in front of this, and then there's one a block away where the street's failing around it.

Our front drains were WE'VE HAD OVER TWO INCHES OF RAIN. OH, GOOD.

HOPEFULLY THAT SOLVES THAT PROBLEM, ESPECIALLY FOR FESTIVAL. IT'S A BIG PROBLEM. OKAY, ANY QUESTIONS FOR JOHN? With regard to 5, 5, 6, 600 South, I'm not prepared to move on that tonight. I don't know if anybody else is or not, but I'd like to look at these both more and I'd like to do a little bit more research as well if I can. Okay. But somebody wants to move move.

Got a couple of us.

three places I think that's sufficient okay okay Luke's not here no enforcement Jennifer do you have anything for us this evening so are we able to maybe schedule a budget meeting Can we push it into September, like the first week of September?

First week of September is fine. Our public hearing is typically set for September 28, and then the adoption will be October the 12th. So if you want to do the first week of September, that's fine.

I should have availability the 2nd, 4th, 7th, 8th, or 9th. You say 2nd, 4th, 8th, and 9th? Yeah, or even the 7th, really, that Monday.

7th looks better for me. I have commitments on that. It is, isn't it? Yeah, so the 8th. Thank you, Tim. I'm good with the 8th.

Yeah, me too. Talking about evening or morning? I'm open. I'm open on either one.

You want to just do 6 o'clock? All right. We'll do our budget meeting on September the 8th at 6 o'clock.

WORKING ON THE CLOSEOUT FOR OUR COMMUNITY CROSSING GRANT.

All right.

Let's see. Scott Wells and Endeavor, they both came and went to the library. Endeavor's ready. They kind of cleaned things up a little bit. Scott said he will be here next week to start getting all of his stuff put in. So let me see. Okay. Street Dance. So the Street Dance is August 22nd. at six o'clock and we've decided to kind of just throw in a cruise in with that so we got been advertising that so we didn't talk about closing the road would it be okay to close the road from definitely from the railroad tracks to Walnut Street but depending on how many vehicles we get who knows we may use this you know this block right here so you want to do this block or you want to go down into the park um well i suppose it would depend on how many vehicles we don't have very many we can kind of head down that way but whatever you guys whatever you guys think either way would work i think if we keep the cars on main street they'll be able to enjoy the music as well sure you know so you just block off

Well, I guess if it's blocked off, nobody will be parking in these spaces. So. And then have public parking in the park or behind town hall or both. Sounds good.

And then another question is the town, does the town want to donate anything as far as. THE CHURCHES ARE DONATING AND THE HUDSON IS DONATING. I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS WANTED TO DONATE AS WELL.

FOR FOOD AND.

IT'S JUST GOING TO BE PIE AND ICE CREAM. THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY COST. WE'RE TRYING TO PICK UP THAT COST. THAT WAY PEOPLE CAN, OUR RESIDENTS CAN COME AND ENJOY THAT. SO IT'S NOT GOING TO COST, YOU KNOW, THE GUYS FROM THE CARS IN. IT'S JUST A CRUISE IN TYPE OF THING. SO IT WILL JUST BE PIE, ICE CREAM AND DRINKS. what we're going to start then it'll be served out of the huts is the idea that people will bring homemade or does it matter I mean did the town go buy some pies we're going to buy we're just going to buy an ice cream and I don't know that the Christian church the ladies there might bake some as well yeah or if anybody wants to bake a pie what kind of budget are you looking for well it's kind of hard to tell but we're kind of basing it off of our christmas tree lighting you know we we have about 100 people from from that so of course that is actually serving that serving a meal you know but um

WITH 250 BUCKS BEING?

I THINK SO. THAT'S WHAT THE CHURCHERS ARE PUTTING IN.

BOTH CHURCHERS ARE PUTTING IN. I THINK WE OUGHT TO DO THAT THEN JUST TO MATCH WHAT THE CHURCHERS ARE DOING. OKAY.

YOU WANT A MOTION?

I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DONATE $250 FOR THE STREET THINGS. I'LL SECOND THAT.

ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. YOU WANT A MOTION TO BLOCK OFF THESE TWO BLOCKS OF MAIN STREET AS WELL?

I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE BLOCK OFF FROM THE From Wonga to Broadway on Main Street and all side streets.

It could be shrunk down if it needs to be. All right. All in favor?

Aye. Thank you for that.

What are the times?

It starts at 6. And I think the band is actually going to start playing from 7 to 9. So we're going to 5.30 to 9.30? Yeah. LASTLY, WE DID THE SWEEP ACCOUNTS ON OUR BANKING ACCOUNTS. SO FOR THE INTEREST FOR THE MONTH OF JULY FOR OUR GENERAL FUND, IT WAS $2,864.22. WATER SEWER WAS $2,425.50. AND THEN THE PARK WAS $1,564.93. SO GOOD BOOF ON DOING THAT.

all right does anyone have any questions for Jennifer all right thank you Mr Fletcher do you have anything for us tonight I didn't have anything prepared okay any questions from the council for our attorney All right, we'll move on to old business, uh, 56 West 600 South. Um. Mr castle is right here. Yes, sir. So we did get these these numbers. We do still have some things to review. Like I said, I personally am not prepared to move on. On that issue tonight, I don't know how the rest of the council feels about it, but. I'm not prepared to, um, but, uh. Hopefully, we can get you an answer. What do you think about the next meeting? Okay.

We'll give them a definite answer next meeting.

Yep.

We've got these quotes we can go over and be prepared to give you an answer. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it.

SECOND ISSUE ON OLD BUSINESS I IMAGINE THAT THIS WILL GET INTO SOME PUBLIC COMMENT SO FOR ANYONE THAT HASN'T BEEN HERE BEFORE THE STATE HAVE MANDATED THAT WE HAVE ALL THESE NOW AND THAT WE DO A LIVE STREAM AND THAT WE RECORD OUR OUR COUNCIL MEETINGS AND SO AS SUCH WE'VE GOT THE PODIUM THERE SO IF WE DO GET INTO SOME PUBLIC COMMENT WITH THIS ISSUE OF THE CATS I WOULD ASK THAT PEOPLE take their turn and go to the podium and introduce yourself. And that way it's on the record and people watching online know who's talking and what they're talking about and where they're from. So, Beryl Katz, that's our next matter of old business. Luke's not here tonight. Do you know, were you involved in this at all?

okay as far as the ordinance okay um i think that there should be somebody Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.

one item that is missing from the email and from what I just handed to you is a letter of support from the Humane Society for Hamilton County. We got that late before we had time to print it off and bring it with. So, am i do you want me to stand here and yes please introduce yourself and then uh whatever you have to say you could say it and if you have questions we'll ask them okay um good evening uh my name is lynn petoskey um i have to give an address uh 94 65 champton drive indianapolis um I am the current president of Community Cats of Hamilton County and also, where'd she go? Carol Asherman is here as well. And we also have some other volunteers from the group in the audience. We're basically, we're all pretty much long-term volunteers. Our group is a 501 nonprofit, and our mission is to reduce the free roaming cat population throughout Hamilton County. And that is accomplished by implementing. TNR, which stands for Trap, Neuter and Return. And I'll talk about that a little more in a minute. We are a 100% volunteer run group. Nobody gets paid. We do this out of a passion for caring for unowned cats in the county to give them healthier and better lives. and also cutting down on the overpopulation. And we've also, I believe, got some local residents in attendance tonight who we have helped over the years here in Atlanta. So big picture, there are 50 to 70 million average free roaming cats in the United States. Whether we love them or hate them, they are and will be part of our communities. They're domestic animals, they're not wildlife and so they shouldn't be treated as wildlife. Some may be feral and some are friendly and some are in between. And Indiana law prohibits cruelty to animals, both domestic and wild. So, TNR also is sometimes also referred to as TNVR, trap, neuter, vaccinate and return. And. the vaccination is always a part of the process we don't always call it the full tnvr so it's considered to be the most effective and humane population management strategy for free roaming cats and the following organizations support that thought process Those are the Indiana Board of Animal Health, the American Association of Feline Practitioners, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the Humane Society of the United States, and the Humane Society for Hamilton County. So how TNR works is cats are trapped humanely and taken to the low-cost spay-neuter clinic in Noblesville. And Hamilton County and surrounding counties are so lucky to have that clinic close by. It's the most cost-effective, reasonably priced spay-neuter services that you'll find pretty much in central Indiana, at least. So the cats are taken in in the morning, they're neutered, vaccinated, they get rabies shot, they get their ear tipped, the left ear is tipped, and that's the sign of a cat that has been fixed. So it helps when we're trapping, that's an easy way to see if the cat has already been fixed or not. Or for anybody in the community, if you happen to see a cat, you see that ear tip on the left side you'll know if you don't then that means it's a cat we probably need to get to the clinic so after bringing the cat home and an overnight recovery then they are released back to their home the next day so some strategies that have been discussed and that are discussed not only here but in other communities are the following. But these are strategies that don't work. One is trap and euthanize. Another is trap and relocate the animal or the cats, which relocating sometimes can mean just dumping. So here's why those don't work. They're gonna be more cats. You're never gonna have, you know, if you trap and try to remove all the cats, you're never gonna get 100% and it creates a vacuum. So you might be able to take out the majority of the cats in a specific area, but then that opens, it creates a void and that territory is then open for other cats that eventually are gonna start trickling to where the resources are in a new territory. The vacuum effect is, it's a, widely documented phenomenon and it happens not only with cats, but also other species worldwide. So they're just going to continue, you know, they'll come into an open territory and assuming that those cats haven't been fixed or new cats come into the fold, it's just gonna start the process over again with multiplying. unless consistent efforts are made to stay on top of it. If a resident sees a new cat that doesn't have an ear tip, then they need to say something and get in touch with us or you can Google online and find out what to do. And with respect to relocating cats, that's not an easy process either if if you're going to do it right um there's a protocol to follow um but i mean first of all you've got to find property owners willing to accept cats you know if you trap 15 cats and decide you don't want them in an area anymore um you can't just drop them off and think that they're going to survive and be healthy and things are going to work out. So you need to get the property owner's permission. And they also then have to agree to care for the cats. Just being able to chase mice in a field isn't enough to sustain a cat. SO THEY NEED TO FEED AND WATER AND ALSO IF ANY MEDICAL ISSUES ARISE TO TAKE CARE OF THAT. THE PROTOCOL, IN ORDER TO KEEP A CAT FROM, YOU KNOW, RUNNING OFF THE MINUTE YOU DROP THEM IN A NEW AREA, YOU HAVE TO KEEP THEM CONTAINED FOR A TWO TO THREE WEEK MINIMUM PERIOD IN A LARGE CRATE OR AN barn room or something, feed them in there, let them get used to the new owners, the new surroundings before releasing them. And hopefully the majority of them will stay. But there are some cats that are just going to naturally want to run back and find where their old home is. And then again, that just perpetuates the problem. So the third strategy that also does not work is a feeding ban. And so I know that's been discussed or thrown out as an idea. And so now I am going to turn it over to my friend Carol, who's going to talk about that and finish up our discussion.

Hello, I'm Carol Asherman. I'm the Trapping for Aid Trapping Coordinator with Community Cats of Hamilton County, and please bear with me, I'm not a good public speaker, but I do feel passionately about this subject. So we are aware that there's a cat issue in Atlanta, and we understand that, and we want to help with trap, neuter, return. As Lynn has talked about, the vacuum effect means that if you trap and euthanize or trap and relocate a cat that is just going to fill up with more cats. There's a lot of cats around. So those things don't work. Feeding bands also don't work. One of the reasons that they don't work is that community cat caretakers are often very bonded and they love their cats. They may have been feeding this particular colony of cats for many years. They know who the grandpa is and they know who doesn't get along with each other and who has to eat over here. And even though they can't touch the animals, I'm sure many of you may be pet owners. And if you're not pet people, you know people who are. Community cat caretakers can love these cats as much as we love our pets. So just try to imagine that somebody came to you and said, stop feeding your pet and just let it die or wander off. Normally law-abiding, honest people are going to have a very hard time doing that, and it's nearly impossible to enforce. Feeding vans, euthanizing, and relocating cats also create adversarial relationships with community members when what is needed is to work together. So as I said, we do acknowledge that there are concerns. Cats can be messy. People say that they can urinate on things, and they yell and they fight. But the good news is that almost all nuisance behaviors that cats exhibit are related to mating, the drive to mate. So when you neuter that cat, and this is something specifically that the Indiana board of animal health mentions in their statement when you neuter an animal almost all those nuisance behaviors go away there's no more need to mark and spray and the males start to smell a lot better and it just they settle down and become fat and lazy and not a problem to the community the other thing is that when cats are fed in a responsible way in a discreet location and kept neat and tidy and swayed from and kind of tucked away, then that also helps them be a better neighbor because then they're not looking at other people's doors and looking in garbage cans and basically being more visible in the community. So we want to be a stronger partner with Atlanta in terms of trap, neuter, return, which is, as almost everybody agrees, the most effective way to manage community cats. We need to partner with the community. We need to... We need to be able to do that. We need people to be able to reach out to us, and a feeding ban would just eliminate our ability to help at all. So I know that councils like yourself usually hear about it when people are unhappy, but you don't always hear about the success stories. So I wanted to just share one. Strap-neuter return and appropriate colony management can be very successful. We haven't been present in Atlanta as much as we'd like to, and we do want to change that if we're able to work together with residents. But one long-term resident of your community is a lovely lady by the name of Phyllis Bates. She couldn't be here tonight, but she gave me permission to use her name and her story as a success story. for Trap New to return. In 2024, several volunteers over the course of two days trapped about 10 cats on her property. There were six adults and four to six kittens, older kittens. It's, you know, it's fairly time intensive for us, but we work together and we get it done and we trapped them all. We got the kittens to the Humane Society that we have a great partnership with them and they will take kittens under a certain age and we get them up and off, off the streets. The adults aren't adoptable. So we got them, we trapped them, we neutered them and vaccinated and returned them. When I talked to Phyllis the other day, two years later now, she says they're fine, no new kittens. Importantly, no new kittens. And they're really just not very visible on her property other than when she rings the dinner bell. So it's a good situation. And it's also a situation that's a good example of how to combat the vacuum effect. Because Lynn talked about how when you remove all the cats from an area, others flood in. And just down the street from Phyllis is a property that has a lot of unfixed cats on it. We offered our help to them several times and they didn't want it, so they continue to have cats breeding and having kittens on that property. None of them have drifted over to Phyllis's house, though. When you have a small, stable group of healthy cats, then they stake out their territory and the other cats don't come in. Additionally, because the females are all spayed, you don't have tomcats coming in from all over the county. So, Phyllis is a very happy customer, and it's an example of how successful TNR can be.

Can I ask about the vacuum effect, so-called? So, is the contention that cats will fill any uninhabited area?

If they've already determined it's a place that they want to live, then yeah. If there's a water source, for example, if there's a creek or a lake, if there are food sources of a variety of kinds. Lynn mentioned that you can't really, cats are not native to North America, so they're not really, you can't just put them out and they can't just live on mice. They tend to need human help, but they have a variety of food sources, and they can get in garbage cans if they can, and they may have mice and chipmunks, but... But if they found food and shelter and a feeling of safety, they get very attached to their territory. And so they've decided that it's good and, you know, it might won't be immediate, but other cats, there's so many cats out there, you know, millions and millions in the United States is the point. So they're going to come. And then you've got another bunch of cats that aren't neutered that take their flexibility. But if you have a small group of healthy cats that you neuter and get healthy, that's their territory and then those other cats don't come in. Does that make sense?

But it's only a desirable territory in the first place if there are resources.

Yeah, and not just food, but also shelter and water.

Why would we as a council not be motivated to remove the cats and remove the food source?

Because there's always going to be more food sources than you will find. A, because, like I said, normally compliant residents are not probably going to stop feeding cats that they love.

They can be compelled to.

They could be. And if you compel Margaret to stop feeding, then they go to somebody else's window. And oftentimes there are several different households feeding the cats that are unknown to each other. There's restaurants. There's, you know... things that they find to eat all over the place. They're little survivors. So it may be, like you're saying, it may be in a very small location. Like if you had an island, you got rid of all the cats, then no new cats are going to come in. And every little microenvironment is different, but for the most part, new cats are going to come in. It's a species-wide phenomenon.

Yeah, except that there's one cat in my two block area of my house and there's probably 50 in the area in question and people residents actually have reported to us as a council that they witness food being dropped off in vehicles to certain residences down there to continue to feed all these cats.

Oh, well, yes. We believe that feeding the cats is humane. We believe in doing it responsibly. And Hamilton County ordinance says you can. We support you carrying cats as long as you get them spayed and neutered and medically vetted.

But the cats didn't appear out of nowhere. They came because there were resources.

Typically, so that is what a lot of people think, that if Margaret, theoretical Margaret, didn't start feeding, the cats wouldn't come. But people don't start feeding until they see the cats.

Why aren't there 50 cats at my house?

I don't know. Cats have their own way of doing things, and they decide they like a certain place.

I guess not. So you touched briefly, one of the two of you did, about property damage, and I think that's the biggest problem. There's obviously some concerns with public health, and there's also nuisance issues of somebody trying to walk your dog, obeying the rules, and you got your dog on a leash, and your dog is trying to chase 10 different cats on your walk, and that's very frustrating as well. When people invest in their property and they plant a garden or they have expensive porch furniture and it's a constant battle to keep all that clean, that's not fair to them at all. So why in the world would we allow someone to continue to feed feral cats?

Because when they are... vaccinated and the colony is managed properly almost all those nuisance behaviors are eliminated so they then stop going on to neighbors properties and using their flower box or or being on their furniture they're not owned and they don't have you know they go where they want to but and and there's no situation that's perfect and every situation is different but in large part and I know we have a representative here that has statewide experience with this will tell us too in large part.

Yeah, that's the idea. We all want less cats outside. We all want less cats born outside.

we're trying to persuade you that this is the most effective, not just the most humane, but the most effective way to do it. Well, like I say, every situation is different. We're giving you the overall information.

So I have a couple questions. Yeah. Has your organization been dropping cats off?

Absolutely not. Okay. We do trap, neuter, return, return, only return. We don't drop cats off anywhere else.

So how did so many cats come to live here?

In Atlanta?

In that one block area.

Oh. Well, I believe the one you're referring to is cats love mobile home parks. They just do statewide, countrywide. And I can't tell you why cats choose a certain place and why they don't choose another place.

So do you think that colony has grown over the last few years?

Yeah. Well, I don't know for sure, but I know that we have not done or gotten 100% of those cats fixed for a variety of reasons. We want to work on that, but that's not a success story right now. It's got potential to be, but not so far because we haven't gotten the majority, almost all the cats. You can get, you always wanna get all of them. They're hard to catch sometimes. If you get like 90% of them, then you see the good effects of TNR.

We always return a cat exactly where we trapped it.

Yes, ma'am.

So is the ultimate goal for the colony to go away then because you're spay-neutering all of them? You want them to all die out and not populate anymore?

Well, so one thing that's important to know is cats are always going to be a part of our communities. There's so many of them out there, and there are so many people that still are yet to learn about traffic or return. So the vacuum effect predicts that more cats will come. But we want to get them all spayed and neutered, like I said. So like at Phyllis's house, she's got this little, tiny, small group of cats and all those other mess cats that could be coming in or not. So...

Is it true that Hamilton County has a you must spay neuter your pet? Yes it is. So is Marion County? Yes.

then why is there even, there wouldn't be any responsible pet owners to let their cats go. They're supposed to be spayed and neutered to be here, so that wouldn't happen. I don't see a hundred dogs running the streets. So that doesn't happen.

Why is this a pre...

I don't... We're talking about here. I'm saying I don't see it here.

Okay, I don't see it. Why would it be okay for 50 cats to roam, but not 50 dogs to roam?

Especially for feeding.

I agree.

Same as the dog. Same as the dog.

Must be contained on your property.

There you go.

I believe we probably also have something about dumping of animals. So that return piece is probably a dumping of an animal. Because it's not owned. It's not owned.

The larger Hamilton County ordinance differentiates between feral cats and pets.

This is a Hamilton County ordinance. This is the town of Atlanta.

But it's a good idea, I think, to differentiate. Because cats came indoors in the 50s. I mean, what happened?

So do dogs. My dogs are inside and always contained on my property, and if they leave my property, they're on a leash. And that's so that they don't abuse anyone else.

So you're not a believer in this vacuum effect, then, that we're trying to persuade you about?

No, I think they're coming because there's a source that's been created for them, and I think the source needs to be eliminated. The source of resources.

Well, one thing I wanted to also share with you is that it's not that easy if you did a feeding ban. It's not that cats are very attached to their territories and they can go for weeks without food and they tend to be, they stick around and they tend to be more visible in the community and they tend to create more problems then. You're going to have cats. We're all going to have cats in our communities. Your neighborhood doesn't. Another one does. We don't pick where they go. The caretakers of these cats get blamed. But like Rachel was saying, it's a lot of people are letting their cats out there to reproduce.

Atlanta's small. There's eight miles total of streets and alleys. Our square mileage is less than two miles. How can there's... almost that there's one in or around my couple block radius and there's 50 down there. There's something different with the resources that are available.

I live in 520 South Broadway. My name is Richard legally, but I go by Jason and I've been live trapped in these these cats for two years and some months. small trap. DNR showed up at my house and told me as long as I'm releasing them live, they won't find me.

But where are you releasing? Who gets them?

Nobody gets them. What property do they go?

And the property owner is accepting of that.

Long, long way from here. Two years I've been doing this, inconveniencing myself. You'll be doing it forever. I have two dogs that's always on leashes.

But if they're removed and they're not coming back, it's the same thing as a spade cat being here, except they're not peeing on somebody's porch.

But I think this is evidence that you can keep removing them until the day you die and the day your kids die and new cats will come.

But the source of food is still there. I got two American bullies, extremely expensive, nice dogs, good with beef. Privacy fenced in yard, I'm done all right. When something comes in that yard, and my wife has an expensive cat. with any dog. It's game on. And my dogs are not on the leash. That's my property. I pay my taxes. I'm tired. I had to take my dog, Dana, the white bully, the female, to the bed because she got a bad infection after she killed this cat. This cat was bigger than a 25-pound coon. And she had to get her

I shut the pond down because they come and they do whatever.

I got a front porch that I built. You can't even come up to my house without the smell knocking you over.

And you're not feeding the cats though, right? I do not feed the cats.

No, but he lives within eyesight of the place that we believe is feeding the cats that has food delivered and puts it out for all these cats to eat.

And I've also had cats. There's an orange one. 20 pound cat. I don't know how they get so fat. So, so much people. And I walk my dogs up in the evening. Even when I run. All around. My dogs are good dogs. On the leashes too. This cat come up on me and my dog. And try to take my dog on in front of me. Tell me why a cat would do that.

So none of these cats in your neighborhood sound like they're neutered.

Some of them are so feral, though. And the diseases, you already see their eyes and everything. It is crazy. Trap, neuter, and euthanasia. But it's terrible.

But more cats come. You're talking about eight miles here. There's cats all around you that are going to play.

They're not by my house because nobody's feeding cats.

Do you want some? Yes, I do. I would love to have some people get joy out of this. I know and I understand not everybody does.

What does the ordinance say?

The ordinance says that cats are the same as dogs. They are pets. They are to be contained on the owner's property.

But they're not owned. These animals are not owned.

If no one takes responsibility and ownership, that means they're straight.

I don't know what the definition of stray is. They're unowned. Community cats are, by definition, not owned by anybody. Even somebody who puts food out does not claim and own that cat. They can't pick the cat up. They can't take it anywhere.

They are creating a nuisance, though, by doing that.

see once again did they create it or are they just trying to help a situation that's not getting better by them doing that nobody puts food out when no cats are there yeah but there's your vacuum effect they start feeding one cat that they see

And now there's 10 and then the next year there's 20.

Well then that's when Community Cats of Hamilton County comes in and partners. We want to partner with the community. We don't want to have an adversarial relationship where neighbors are mad at neighbors and people are told to not feed cats and then they're unhappy. We want to all work together. I think it's something we all can do and let's see what we can accomplish.

Do you have any other information that you would like to relate to us?

Yes, I would just like to say that it's not the cat's fault. We failed them by letting them out and not getting them spayed and neutered. Not we in this room, but people have failed them. So let's don't fail them again. I would just like to ask for those of you who are here in support of the humane treatment of community cats, would you just please stand so they know who's here for the cat?

Happy to help.

We appreciate the time and we'll be here to answer any questions after the meeting.

I do have a couple of questions.

Councilman Johnson has a question and then I'll get to. I do have a couple of questions for you.

I don't have any idea.

You've mentioned a lot of things that won't work. Won't work not to feed him. Obviously I'm not in favor of euthanizing anything. What will work? Is the only option we have to trap and then put the cats back?

It's a humane and effective option in the long term because of the vaccine.

Will your organization pay to have things cleaned?

We pay for the TNR quite often.

Okay.

But pay for what now? Oh, to have property cleaned?

Property cleaned and disinfected.

No, we're not going to do that. We want to prevent that from happening.

How long would it take for a colony of 50 cats to be spayed, neutered, and reduced to five? Oh. We're talking tens of years for that to happen.

No, maybe not tens. The cats that live outside, they don't have as long a life as cats that live inside. They can live healthy, happy lives outside, but it wouldn't be tens of years. We had a big colony, Rachel. We had a 40-cat colony. How long did it take to get down to 10? Five years or so?

20, 21.

From 40ish to eight in five years.

What's an average lifespan of a cat?

For an outside cat, I don't know. Three to five. Three to five years.

So what you're asking us to do is to, and for the residents to do, is to put up with the amount of cat problems that they're having for

five to seven more years well we want to help too for all the the situations right here that we're hearing about it sounds like these are unfixed cats and we will be here with our phone numbers and ready to start you know assigning projects we want to help well after they're neutered they do tend to stay closer to the place that they have food so we can't always we can't prevent that but raccoons and possums do the same thing You can't just move all the wildlife and all that.

What do you do when you come across a cat that's not scared of your dog or you? I've never had a cat do that.

We neuter it.

Oh, how are you going to get it when it's already threatening to hurt me and my dog?

We use humane traps. We're good at this.

I've never seen a cat. This thing acted like it was a panther.

You know what's going to happen?

Somebody like me that's based by the law is going to get fed up with it. And I'm going to go in and give a little two pistol and I'm going to shoot it to protect myself. Then I'm going to have these repercussions for my actions.

So we want to help you.

We want to help.

We want to help. We can trap those cats. We don't want to deal with those cats all day long. We're not afraid of them.

No, I don't think that's fair to them.

All right.

We definitely appreciate you all coming to present to us.

Thank you very much.

I'd like to hear from some people from town.

Well, I just wanted to say, Trevor is on the agenda today. Appreciate it.

All right, about this issue? All right, you're on it. You've been recognized.

All right, so I'm Trevor Clema. I live down at the corner of South Broadway. I'm right across from the person that's feeding these cats. I'm the one. I've got custom motorcycles at my house. I've got nice cars. I've got nice trucks. I have nice lawn furniture. I've been replacing them. Due to the urine smell, you can't really get that out. If you guys have a way to do it, I'm all open to it. Man, I had a motorcycle left out, epoxy in my garage. Left motorcycles out for, I don't know, 16 hours. One of these bikes is full of custom paint job everything. Come out the next morning, there's paw prints all over the motorcycles, all over everything. Walk in my yard. There's piles of cat crap. I'd say you can Stand in the middle of my yard do a 360 and probably see 30 piles crap Me as a homeowner and the rest of the Atlanta residents I Why are we being strong-armed by a cat community that 90% of them aren't from this town nor have any recollection of what is going on, you know, like I Why are the residents being, because a cat has a clipped ear, we have to let it do whatever it wants. We can't touch it, we can't do anything. So I started trapping on my own, right? So I called the non-emergency number. Non-emergency number tells me to call Luke, or call Arcadia. Arcadia called Luke. Luke comes down. He takes the cat. You guys don't have any action in plan. US RESIDENTS WANT TO FIND OUT AND WE WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT YOUR GUY'S PLAN IS BECAUSE I MEAN WE'RE TIRED OF WE DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS AND WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE COMING FROM INDIANAPOLIS TRYING TO TELL US WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS WE DON'T AND I KNOW I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT FEELS THAT WAY AND AND I WAS HERE FOR A MEETING THE LAST TIME WITH HER AND WHY WHY ARE WE GOING TO WAIT FIVE YEARS FOR HALF A CAT POPULATION TO DWINDLE Half of us are going to be dead by the time the cats go away. I mean, I grew up here my whole life. There's always been cats. Not near as many as there are here. I mean, we've always seen two or three running around maybe throughout the town. You stand in my front yard, 50 cats. Easy. Do a 360, you spot more than a dozen. Easy. I mean, what are we going to do? What's the town's step towards this. I guess we just want to answer that. What would you suggest? I suggest trap them. I'd suggest trap them, relocate them. If they can't be relocated and they can't find a home, euthanize them. Be done with it. Why should the town of Atlanta have to have a cat colony in it where their residents are paying for the destruction?

I'm agreeing with you all the way up to euthanize them. I think they should be trapped and removed. What's your idea of removal? Not back here. But where?

But then that becomes someone else's problem. And dumped on someone else's property.

Do you remember when we had the 15 cats come onto the street here? And how bad it was to the neighbors and how much damage that they had done. The gentleman next door took them out in the country to a farmer. And since they have been relocated to a farm, We haven't had cat feces around our building.

And the vacuum has not been filled.

Well, so on the contrary too, after our meeting that we talked about, we talked about cutting the cat supply. It's what we all say here and talk about. And then two days later, they show up with 130 pounds of food to the neighbor across the street to feed. I mean, this lady has a shed set up just for the cats, just for the cats to be in. It's disgusting. You're in my side of town. You smell nothing but urine everywhere. It's foul.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm not saying you're wrong. Do you have any proof, any pictures? Oh, absolutely. You do?

Oh, absolutely.

Would you like to see it?

Yeah, I would.

You have stuff you can email. That might be easier than trying to review it right now.

That way we can have it on file.

A word about relocation. There aren't as many barn homes out there welcoming all these cats as one might think. And it takes an acclimation process. If you're going to get that cat to stay, you can't just drop it off there. That's cool. It needs to have an acclimation process. They're very tied to their territory.

Why is that my problem or his problem, his problem, his problem? Why is that all of our problems? If someone has this on their cat and now just because it's cat, we have to, why are we responsible for dealing with all this?

We didn't collectively create the problem.

How did we create the problem? As a resident, I can assure you that most residents feel this way. Why are we being strong-armed by you guys? You guys do not live here. We have our own ordinance in town about these animals. We don't want this colony. The lady in the trailer park that owns it has no recognition of a cat colony. She does not want it there. Why is Atlanta paying for this? She does not want it there. No, she does not want it there. I have spoke with her.

She wants to evict the people that have them. Oh, you're talking about the owner.

Yeah, the owner. Yeah, no, the tenants.

The way you phrase that, it sounded like you meant the lady living there. No, the owner of the park. The park, okay.

We're not arguing that there's not an issue. So what's the difference between a dog and a cat? If our ordinance says that they're the same thing, then if we have 50 dogs running around here, we're going to have three guys out here in a truck, snagging them with ropes, and taking them to the United States.

They're going to sit there. If it's a pit bull, it gets euthanized, right?

Not here.

Most people won't take a pit bull. Okay.

Anyhow, what's the difference between cats and dogs?

Between the white dog doesn't go to his house. What's your guys's plan?

What's your guys's plan? The humanely way to get rid of these cats using Atlanta, but you're not getting rid of them TNR. You're bringing them back, correct?

How long has been up here? How many years have you guys said we're helping people in Atlanta or dropping food at her house? How many years? How many years have you guys been dropped? Do any of you guys have vaccination reports for these cats with you right now?

Why would you not bring it to you? I asked you last meeting. You didn't have it either.

Yeah, we've got 2 people with hands up. And then I don't know who you are, but I will recognize you up there and recognize.

Let's get back to 1 meeting here guys.

You're welcome to come speak if you have something to say.

Okay, I'm not very good at public speaking either. So my name is Gina Carter. I live at 625 South Indiana Street. So I'm actually around the corner from where they live. I can say that I do know that there is a lot. And I do think they are acknowledging that there is a problem because the girl I feel like Well, kind of going off of what, where is he? He asked, the gentleman that was just up here, some of the problem is is you got people moving into a rental places and they're collecting kittens and free kittens and this and that and they're letting them go. So we need to somehow have something with the rental property so it doesn't get to this problem. I don't believe in going out, my mom, TNR'd at her property. She does not live in Atlanta, so you can say what you want about that. But when she moved into her home, she had over 30 cats that came at the house. And they were all over her stuff. Well, guess what? She TNR'd. Within less than five years, she had zilch cats. To this day, she still has zero cats. Now, we did have community cats come out there, because someone dumped off a pregnant mama. They got both her and her kittens, and guess what? The kittens were young enough, they brought them to Humane Society. Humane Society took them in, and that got rid of four cats right there. Mama cat, they were gonna let her go as a barn cat, but my dad ended up taking her in and gotten her so that she is not crazy. I own four cats. My cats do not go outside. but I also don't believe unless just you know I believe I have a compassion you have to have compassion there's a reason why people have compassion there's a reason why I think some of the problem is you got people in this town that are hoarding and not doing what is right for these animals that's a huge problem and Again, I'm for TNR. I've seen it work. I have cats that came to me through TNR that I kept. I don't TNR on my property. I don't. We have expensive stuff too. I have a 70 Dodge Charger. We have a Little Red Express. I have a Camaro. Yes, we don't want all the smells. We have sprays we use around our house to keep away. We don't have that problem at our house. But I do know around the corner, there is a lot of cats and they do trickle over our way. And you know, if they're nice, I'll try to figure out whose house they belong to, which is how I got one of my cats, because the people told me point blank that it's one of the people that causes the problems of all these overpopulation, told me keep their cat. So I did. But I can't keep all the cats that are in their area. There's no way.

Are you feeding outside?

No.

You live in the brick house, right?

Yeah.

Well, we were told by the lady at the trailer park that you guys are the ones feeding it. Nope, we do not feed them.

We do not feed.

Amanda. She's the one bitching about the cats keeping them and shaming them with the meat.

I don't really talk to her that much.

She left a trap at my house because we had a cat. She was supposed to help us with community cats.

She left a trap at our house and never came back, so I'm used to that from her. We need to find a better solution for the town because, yes, TNR works if we do it properly, but we can't do it with people that are going to continue to bring in kittens because they are cute and they're just like the little bunnies. Let's get the bunnies. I see rabbits are dropped off out here that are used to be people's bunnies that would probably eat their bunnies. We have the same people that are bringing these cats in. It's always their dogs running loose. We gotta work on something and try and help these people come with a better idea of stop bringing these animals in to give them a fair shot because it's not fair to the cats. They don't ask to be dumped here. They're not asking to be repop, booming over and over. It's just, I just know that I've seen it work. I've seen it work at my mom's house. It does work, but you have to have the proper tools, and people need to do what is right and not do what they feel like and pick and choose. Okay, I'm gonna fix this cat, but this one's cute. I want this cat to try to have kittens with this cat, because that's where we feel we've seen that happening with some of the people, and they're willing to get people here that are going to do the right thing and not pick and choose, like some of the people that live across from them have been doing. They're picking and choosing which cats are TNRing, and that's a problem. Or they're just not doing it. They're throwing traps at people's houses saying, here, here's a trap if you need to trap a cat, and then they never come back or contact you again. And I've had the traps sitting on my porch waiting for her to come pick it up forever because there's no cats by me. And every time I do, she's like, well, I have three other ones that I've used. She's not using them. So that's a big problem. I feel for them, but I also don't want TNR. My mom just went outside her house and found a cat shot, a kitten shot thrown out in her yard. She was devastated. My mom in her 70s should not be burying the cat that's shot because someone didn't want it. We can't be those type of people that just throw. This town is compassionate. I've lived here for 20 years. I've seen compassion. We just need to work together on what we find is the right way. where people aren't getting their stuff damaged as well. I do believe in that. So I kind of rambled, I'm not very- It's all right, I appreciate your input.

I think you're right, and I think the problem is that we basically are at the point of maximal frustration with the people who are bearing the brunt of the consequences of this problem, who live nearby. I don't know, it would seem that there are certain realities of living in a town. There's certain ordinances in place that protect residents, and I'm not sure. This idea of a cat colony or TNR would seem to be IT SEEMS MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TO OUR OTHER TOWN ORDINANCES. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE TWO COULD COEXIST. WE WOULD HAVE TO IGNORE OUR TOWN ORDINANCES TO ENABLE A CAT COLONY OF ANY KIND TO CONTINUE. THERE'S CERTAIN PRACTICAL REALITIES. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE THAT LET THEIR CAT OUTSIDE SOMETIMES OR MAYBE THE CAT GETS LOOSE OR SOMETHING AND WE CAN'T CHASE EVERY ANIMAL. But when there's a complaint made, then that becomes something actionable for sure. So I'm under no illusions that we would never, even in an ideal world, have no outdoor cats. It's going to happen. But this seems excessive, and it seems like it's a problem that's been created through someone's misguided compassion. That's what it is. You're shaking your head, but she's putting out food and feeding 50 cats. How is that not creating the problem?

If the smell will not go away with a fixed cat.

I think we probably unless anybody has a new perspective that we have not heard yet I'm not prepared to recognize anybody else so if this is a rehash of anything else that's already been said I'm not interested sure you're welcome to yes

Good evening, honorable members of the Town Council. I really appreciate your opportunity to hear me this evening. My name is Samantha Chapman. I've heard this evening the tensions are obviously high. Everyone's really frustrated at max capacity, but I think you all want the same thing. I've listened. You want a place that's clean. You want the cats to slowly disappear. I think that we want the same goals, truly. So just for perspective, I am the Indiana State Director for humane world for animals, formerly the Humane Society of the United States. I live in Hamilton County. I'm an attorney and I've worked on these issues at the State House for nearly 10 years. And so I bring that perspective. I did want to point out, I know we've been here a long time. This room is really warm. But the state actually took action in 2014 with a bill that was called House Bill 1199. It's codified in Indiana Code 1641-27-16. It states that provisions concerning animals running at large in mobile home communities do not apply to feral cats that are caught and released as part of spay and neuter programs designed to reduce the number of cats in this area. So the General Assembly has recognized just surprised you guys are not the first people to deal with this i mean just that's how this is and so i think really what i'm hearing is you know i think there's a lot of maybe rumors maybe some of it's true i don't know i don't live here but i know this group here they're reaching out to provide resources and i know that to be able to solve this problem your town does need resources we've seen folks you know implement feeding bans over the years we've seen folks remove the cats we've seen them relocate the cats the cats just keep coming back. So you're gonna continue to spend town dollars on that. And I know TNR might not be the answer immediately, but I don't know what is going to solve your problem immediately. I don't think there's a quick solution. There's not an osempic for this issue. So we have to work together. And like I said, I think, you know, there's a lot of like, I don't live here. Town versus city.

I get that.

I see that at the state house too, but I do think you all have common ground in trying to find the solution for your community.

And like I said, the state has recognized that this is a problem and stray animals are protected in that way. So I think.

committing resources and like these folks are volunteers. They're not doing this for pay. They don't have, I mean, ill intentions. I think everybody, if we look at our values, Christian values, we started this as a prayer. We want box creatures to be created. They're creating a nuisance in your community. I understand that. I get that. I mean, we all want to have nice things. I think, again, that's all a common goal that we have here. But how can we work together? Because these people are providing resources and our organization, we've worked decades on this issue. And I can tell you that if you continue to put resources into removing cats, and relocating them or moving them somewhere else, it's just not going to work, unfortunately. And you're just going to spend time and you're still going to be in a frustrated place. And so I think While is not a magical fix. It really truly is a good solution and there's 30 counties across the state of Indiana that have implemented this rural and urban alike. I can send you all a list. I'm not going to sit up here and name off every single 1. But it's, I think it's important to realize that this is like, just this is the way that we have to deal with it. And I know. you know, everybody wants an enemy or to point fingers, but I think really the reality is the cats are here and we gotta work together to find that solution. And I know tensions are high, but I think we all have more in common than we have different. And really just focusing on that and trying to find a solution and turning that energy and frustration into that is the best step forward. But, you know, I'm here, I live in Fishers, not too far away, and I'm committed to helping with resources as well. You know, we have a lot of grants. There's lots of organizations that work on this that have a variety of resources. And so we'd be really happy to help you move forward in a way that works for your community and to solve this problem for good. So with that, happy to answer any questions. I appreciate your time. I know this is a really long meeting, so I'm trying to keep my remarks.

Can I ask one question? Absolutely. You said you were talking about Mobile Home Park, right? Yes. Atlanta South Mobile Home Park. The moment they leave the mobile home park, then it becomes an issue, right? Sure.

My point is in stating that I'm not saying that it applies to the town of Atlanta. My point is saying that in 2014, the General Assembly codified that into state law, recognizing that TNR is effective as a way to reduce cat populations. And the General Assembly represents communities across the state. Indiana is a rural ag state, right? Those are our values that have been codified into state law. And so respectfully, Atlanta is not a mobile home park. However, that is something that has been recognized by the state that that is something that has to be followed in mobile home parks. So that's just something to keep in mind.

I do have a question if if and then we answered it earlier in Hamilton County, you have to spay and neuter the animal. Correct? Yes, that is a county ordinance or county law, right?

The problem I think with cats and community cats, feral cats, whatever you want to call them. Um, is that they're not they're they're quasi property. They're not really somebody's exact pet. They're sort of they roam around. The TNR provides a vaccine, so they're healthier. They're not causing, they're not spraying. The male calf spraying is causing a lot of issues, right? They're not as likely to fight, that kind of stuff. So it reduces conflicts, things like that. So yeah, they're supposed to spay and neuter.

But the problem is, is that we live in a time where things are really expensive.

I think everybody in this room can relate to that. So affordability is a problem. You can mandate that people fix things. But with what money? When you have to pay your rent, when you have to pay your white belt, like, what are you going to do here? Right?

What would happen to me if

my dogs were not back were not spayed and neutered so that would i mean who does the enforcement here is it um mr oprah i don't i don't know i'm saying it's the county law wouldn't the county be responsible to so would be for the animal control officer to county animal control would get involved so show up at your house and that's the enforceability of it right it's highly based on how enforceable and that's the thing too i mean if you implement a feeding ban If you implement, you know, a relocation plan, like, who's going to enforce that? Do you have community resources to do that? Or are you going to have your residents show up in a year and have the same issues before you and you've spent all this money on this? I mean, like, we've seen it happen time and time again throughout the state, throughout the country. It's just the reality of it. And I hear you. There's not a magic answer. But really, TNR is the solution. It may not be a quick fix solution, but it is the solution overall.

Why can't these animals go to Hamilton County Humane Society?

Well, I mean, first of all, our shelters and rescues are completely overrun. So and those are a lot of these cats, too, also are not able. They're not socialized in that way. Right. So that's a big, big thing as well. The kittens, they do. They're able to round those up and get those adopted. So that's an option. But really, people are not like. If they have a lost cat, they don't come to the shelter. We have data that shows that. So removing the cats, again, it's just opening up this space for more cats to come in. And if you don't, a kitten can reproduce at four months old. So basically, if you're not getting a fix quickly, you're just going to continue to have more cats. So really fixing the cats is really important. And then the vaccination part is really important for public health as well.

How long would it take to round up 50 cats and get them spayed and neutered?

I mean, it depends on how many people are trapping.

Well, it would be you guys.

But why is it their community buy-in? I mean, that's the thing.

So with a feeding ordinance or a feeding ban or for- There's not going to be community buy-in because the majority of the community wants them gone. And so if you tell them, so if you tell them that they're going to be returned, they're not going to help.

I think it's it, but this is a problem though. Like, the community is addressing this issue, right? You're talking about it. So so if you pass a feeding banner, if you pass a relocation. Then you're going to be dealing with it then too, right?

So, like, surely there's places where they just don't tolerate this. And so if they do find someone feeding them, they eliminate the problem, right? Like, this doesn't fly in Carmel, Indiana. This doesn't fly in downtown. No, it doesn't happen because they.

Truly.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I don't know this thing about the 130 pounds of cat food. I understand that's a frustration point, okay? I get that, but regardless of the food being dropped off or not dropped off... I understand, I'm just trying to provide, I'm trying to provide, I do this professionally, respectfully.

I've seen this community time and time again, and I'm just here to help.

I don't appreciate you coming.

I took time out of my day to be here for this community, as did everybody in this room. And I know you all are upset and frustrated. I get that and I hear that. And I think it's all valid, truly. And I appreciate the opportunity to speak. I just think we all need to work together because if you don't, then it's just going to continue to be a frustration.

It sounds like there's only one prescribed solution, though.

you can listen, you can try those other things, but you're going to spend taxpayer money and your you don't get anything TNR doesn't receive any money from the state no but they're they're volunteers like it's completely no there's no it's kind-hearted people wanting to help truly I mean that's that's the situation here so I mean you can spend money doing that and and like I said I mean go for it but I think that you're gonna see in a year or two or three or whatever you're gonna be back here again so try it

Did you guys see a lot of the cats on Main Street that you guys got rid of?

No. No, he was cited, and he found another home for them.

And they never came back? And they never came back. What about the guy in arrest? No. No. Yeah, is there something there?

So do you know, could...

Could there be a situation where somebody is perpetuating a nuisance animal situation and the well-being of their animals is not in consideration at all and there is disease and there are deformations and things like that.

Certainly.

That could result in something criminal.

Something criminal. know i i don't think so however i think there's what might be the issue here is that there might just not be proper feeding techniques going on i mean that it sounds like i don't i don't know again i don't live here we've made that really clear tonight okay um but i think there are ways that you can you can feed cats in a way that causes less cats to congregate keeping the area clean things like that that can can address some of these issues as you reduce the population

OVER TIME THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME I REALLY APPRECIATE IT I APPRECIATE YOU COMING THANK YOU I'M SURE THEY DO KNOW ABOUT IT THEY DO NEED TO IF THEY HAVEN'T ALREADY RECEIVED OFFICIAL NOTICE ABOUT IT I BELIEVE THAT'S HAPPENED AS WELL BUT I'LL FIND OUT I mean, all we can do is put them in our town kennel and feed them, I suppose. No. Sure.

Yeah, I don't know.

And we don't have an agreement with the Humane Society because they wanted something like $240 a cat or something like that. And that includes residential drop-offs that the town would have to pay for. And so we didn't sign that agreement with them. So that part is a tricky situation. But we do have a town kennel, I suppose, in that case, if there was a stray animal that was dropped off.

Yeah.

It's designed for dogs.

I can't imagine. And I'm an animal lover myself.

I've had dogs, I've had cats. I don't currently have an animal because the last one that I put down was like putting down one of my children and I said no more. I can't do it. The wonderful story about Phyllis Bates. I've known Phyllis since I was two years old. Phyllis, she lives on 100 acre farm out West of town. Yeah, I've known Phyllis forever. Wonderful lady 90 Phyllis just turned 90. When her husband was alive, they had a dairy farm. We went to their house every weekend growing up. Cats. She had cats. She loves cats.

But she has a place for them.

She lives out in the country. In a perfect place. And I'm sure she needed some help with the cats reproducing. This is an issue. I don't know legally where you know where we stand. I mean, I'd love to sit here tonight and give you a direct answer. I know if that was my house, I'd be losing my mind.

I mean, we're gonna set. We're gonna set 10 tracks tonight. Who do we call? I mean, we call the ordinance officer because we call Hamilton County non emergency.

going to call our exactly exactly to come get them that's what we have to figure out we have to figure out what right exactly and i don't know what the answer is for that i mean well no technically technically if they're the same as a dog then they're stray animals and we just put them in

of an animal before you're a problem?

I'm not aware of that. No.

I missed council for just like because if somebody's dog ran around for somebody's dog ran around and it kept happening then eventually there's going to be a problem and it's going to go to the Humane Society or kids going to get involved.

They get tickets too.

Right. Okay. So I

we do have a scanner I'm not sure if it current I'm not sure the status of it but yeah and that one accidentally would get out

Absolutely. Yes.

Yes, you should.

Yes. There's fines that could be implemented right now. Yes, ma'am.

Your town ordinance, does it allow people to let their pets, their pet cats be outside?

No. On your own property.

On your own property. Okay. There's no requirement of spay, is there a requirement of spay neuter here?

I think we rely on the county ordinance for that. Because county, we can be more strict than the county, not less, right? So county requires spay neuter. SO WE DIDN'T DUPLICATE AN ORDINANCE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

HOW DO WE BEGIN A RELATIONSHIP WITH TRAP MUTOR RETURN? HOW DO WE BEGIN THAT RELATIONSHIP?

And you guys are the ones posting all these comments on Facebook. You've been part of Atlanta's situation for quite a while. Well, I mean, certain people, I don't know who it is, but they keep saying their community, Castlehampton County, is highlighted, and they've been doing, helping here for the last several years. Okay, then why are we asking them?

It's not my response.

That's a question I wanted answered and I don't know that I got a good answer for. Have you guys been involved with this cat colony? We have tracked 16 cats.

So you have been TNRing these cats, but it's getting worse.

Hey, I've got a question. If there's cats in a certain area and that keeps other cats away, how is this population expanding?

Cats, when a new cat, you know, when there are cats that didn't get caught the first time, and that will happen because they won't come around when we're trapping. Or it'll come from a couple blocks away. We don't get notified right away. And so there's reproduction going on.

So it's going from within, not without.

Without, I mean, it could be from, it's a couple blocks away.

Okay. But more than likely, they'll reproduce them.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's see.

How many kittens can a cat? I've never had a cat that had kittens. How many?

Kittens can have more as they have more leaders. Yeah. A cat in first pregnancy can have four, three, five. I mean, what's the average? Three to six.

Three to six. Okay.

And how often do they reproduce?

They can reproduce up to four to five times a year.

Four to five times a year. Good. Nice.

They can start reproducing at four.

I think what we ought to do, Murray, is to begin doing that. Not that that's a solution that I agree with, but we need to get the ones that are here fixed. Then we can decide what are we going to do with it. I understand that. But I don't see any other way of doing it rather than just taking them out and shooting them, and I'm not in favor of that.

Do you live in Atlanta? I sure do.

I'm telling you, I agree with you.

I live like two blocks from you.

I don't want them there any more than you, but you probably don't want them there more. I understand that, but we have to start somewhere. We have to get something. You didn't start it, though.

Is there kittens now that can be taken? Is there kittens that can be brought to the main site? Why can't we charge the kittens to get them to the main site? The Humane Society never takes kittens for free. It's $240 a piece. If I personally let them drop the kitten off, they would charge me money?

But if you said, okay, I'll dispose of this some other way, they'd probably take it.

I agree with you. This should not be happening. Those cats should not be there, okay? But we've got to start somewhere. We've got to get the ball rolling. I mean, if we sit here and just talk about it forever, nothing is going to happen.

What we're talking about is already happening. Nothing.

my name is jessica gibson i live at 1398 and a half monument street in downtown noblesville i've lived in that double for nine years i've worked with hamilton county community cats when i lived when i moved there there were approximately 10 neighborhood cats that came around like a one block area i'd sit down at night and watch them My landlord slash neighbor has trail cameras. She also watched them. I've worked with Hamilton County community cats. We've got several spayed and neutered. I myself have TNR'd for over 20 years in various cities. I am down to, for the past three years, there have been two outdoor cats that are neutered and spayed. They're elderly. I feed them. I give them proper shelter. I have been able to commute... to create community in three block radius. I've walked over and talked to my neighbors. I've introduced myself. I told them about the cats. I've asked them, the residents that have been there for quite some time, what their experience has been. And I point them out and I show them and ask them, if you ever have any problems, feel free. I'm your neighbor. I am here to create community with you. And my goal is for there to not be cats there. And we've gone from 10 to two. Every year I have placed on average two kittens that someone dumps downtown. These are friendly cats that come to my door or are eating in my little, and I don't put out a lot of food because I don't want everybody there. So it's about natural attrition and it's about getting these animals adopted out. And it does take time. but you know building community and getting support and buy-in it's not going to happen overnight and it's it's hard and you know that's why i say i reach out to my neighbors and i ask them and that's also a part of i also know other people that have needed help and i've been able to place their dogs and other get them help that they needed and some of these people were senior citizens and some of them you know just needed needed somebody to talk to so thank you for your time

Thank you. All right, go ahead. Yeah. And then, uh, I think it's, we'll move on here.

Um, I missed me. 535 South Broadway, a couple of houses over from my son and a lot of the people here. Um. I kind of wonder if our problem isn't the rentals. Are we dealing with the owner rentals and just the tenants? Because I feel like one of these tenants has an eviction hearing coming up in the next few days. Are you going to still continue to drop cat food off to somebody else in that area if she gets evicted in the next couple days? I'm sorry. Well, she said she's not affiliated. With them that you guys.

Indiana street is.

Well, shouldn't you be registering the property owners? NOT THE TENANTS, THE PROPERTY OWNERS. SO WHO AT THE ATLANTA MOBILE HOME PARK GAVE YOU PERMISSION TO HAVE A CAT COLONY THERE? WHAT OWNER? I'M SORRY? NO, IT WASN'T. NO, IT WASN'T. I'VE LIVED HERE FOR 45 YEARS. THAT WAS NOT THERE. I don't know where all these cats came from.

Oh yeah, one tenant.

And then we were told that people on Indiana Street are part of this. TNR is bringing the cat food to the tenant.

You're not?

Oh, Community Cats is bringing? Okay, who's here from Community Cats? Are you bringing the cat food to her house? okay but did you speak to the trailer park owners to make sure this is okay they leased this area so when you need owner's permission and not a tenant no

THE TENANT WRITES.

THE TENANT WHAT?

THE TENANT WRITES.

TENANT, I DON'T, SURELY STATE STATUTE DOESN'T ALLOW A TENANT TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT ON THEIR PROPERTY WITH REGARD TO ANIMALS. NO, NOT YES AND NO, NO.

NO, IT'S BETWEEN US AND THE ANIMALS. YEAH, YEAH, IT IS.

NO, I SAID WITH REGARD TO ANIMALS.

They're just in this one area.

And they know that there's 15 to 20 cats that are not safe. I swear to God. Hey, hey, hey.

ALL RIGHT.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF THERE'S SOME WAY THAT THE BOARD CAN CONTACT HER. IF THE BOARD CAN BE IN CONTACT WITH THE OWNER. YES.

ALL RIGHT.

I THINK WE'RE DONE WITH THIS POINT. I APPRECIATE ALL THE INPUT. I'M SORRY TO ALL THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE FRUSTRATED.

CAN LUKE CHIME IN ON ANY OF THIS?

Luke, do you have any input on the cat situation?

Can you provide any insight into what you've been able to do so far, what you've attempted to do, if anything?

I think I'm stuck between being legal to do what they're doing or illegal to do what they're doing.

Is it up to the town?

Have you made a notification to the mobile home park owner?

No.

Okay. Let's do that, please. And then we'll try to work through additional avenues.

Maybe it's a multi-faceted approach of some kind, but we've got to get the ball rolling here.

We've got to make a notification to the park owner of... loose animal situation or something and and also nuisance animal situation and and see if they can motivate some change there thank you So our animal control, it's kind of multifaceted. So we do have local ordinance enforcement, and that's Mr. Brown here. He works for us in another capacity, but he is also our local code enforcement officer. But with certain animal situations, he will rely on our police department, which we contract with Arcadia, the town to the south, for catching an animal, animal bite situation or something like that. And that would also involve county animal control. So if you have a stray dog, where does the dog go? The town has a kennel facility, and what we've done historically is if we don't know who the owner is, we'll take the dog to our outdoor kennels, which it's shelter, but it's not in conditioned space. And we'll post on social media, and we'll try to get word out around town, and typically the animal is claimed within a day. I don't actually, I can't think of anywhere that hasn't been the case.

You have very successful returns.

For dogs. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Can I ask a quick question of Luke?

And that is what are, there went to some tasks that you've been asked to come and pick up and what are you doing with them?

Oh, we had some planned in place. Yeah, that's what I'm kind of wondering. Did you hold them? No. We were told you were picking people at college and you picked up cats. Not yet. Okay, thank you.

All right.

Did you pick up any of Trevor's cats? What?

Yeah, the cat, the cat got loose.

Wild cat. What am I supposed to be doing with the cat?

Currently, I think we need to make official notification to whoever we can make notification to and then we'll come up with a plan. there but they need to be motivated to start taking care of this problem because it's ultimately their responsibility sure in spite of everything else like you understand I would hope you would understand at least my perspective of This isn't fair to any of them. We have ordinances that need to be followed, and they're not being followed. I do appreciate what you guys are trying to do, and I appreciate that you're certainly motivated by compassion and all that, and I think that's great, and I do appreciate your time spent with us tonight as well. I just don't know that it's fair to the people that are dealing with all these stray animals for us as a council, or me personally especially, to say, tough luck, you've got to keep dealing with it. I MEAN WE'VE GOT ORDINANCES AGAINST IT I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THAT YOU GUYS HAVE SAID I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING I THINK IT'S A PROBABLY A GREAT PROGRAM THAT WORKS REALLY WELL IN CERTAIN AREAS BUT WE HAVE ORDINANCES THESE PEOPLE DIDN'T SIGN UP FOR THAT one came in and get it fixed right sure it wouldn't have blocked of course and also if somebody wasn't feeding every stray cat outside we also wouldn't have this problem for sure I can, I appreciate everyone's frustration and I appreciate all the people that are in support of it too. I don't know that the support is in line with our town ordinances. I know it's not. So that's something that we've got to keep in mind and it certainly is detrimental to others here in town. So. But it's a difficult issue. It might take a variety of different approaches all happening at the same time to make it better. All right, we're gonna move on to the next thing. We've got ordinance number 2026-07-02. This ordinance was introduced at our past council meeting, our most recent one, and it is an ordinance establishing a Parks and Recreation Board. So this is something we've been talking about for a very long time, and it is in the hopes of maybe being able to formulate a plan for some park improvements and maybe even being able to pursue some grants that might be available to that end. So this would be a citizen park board. This would be appointed by, it'd be a four member board and members would be appointed by the council president and it is staggered terms and it lays all of that out in here. So we introduced this at the last meeting and IT'S BEEN AVAILABLE FOR REVIEW THAT ENTIRE TIME. ANY COMMENT FROM ANYBODY ON THE COUNCIL? AND IF NOT, WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO MOTION TO APPROVE?

I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE ORDINANCE 2026-07-02. I WILL SECOND THAT.

ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. YOU SIGN YOURS? OKAY. So, in conjunction with this, now that we've officially established the park board. We are looking for community members that would like to potentially participate.

So, and I don't want me to tell you that she's okay.

I don't know the best way to do this. I've never done this before. But I would say it probably be easiest. Would you be able to maybe take a list and then we can. IF THERE'S MORE THAN FOUR PEOPLE WE'LL FIGURE OUT HOW TO HOW TO PAIR DOWN BUT UH I'D LIKE TO GET PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD AND START WORKING TOWARDS THE PARK PROJECT SOONER OTHER THAN LATER BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT FOR WAY TOO LONG MAYBE WE CAN ACTUALLY MAKE IT HAPPEN ANY OTHER OLD BUSINESS FROM THE COUNCIL HAVE YOU BEEN OVER TO THE LIBRARY LATER? I HAVEN'T BEEN. I'VE GOT SOME LOOKING AT FLOORING.

A FRIEND AND I WENT DOWN TO MADISON, WHICH, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW MADISON IS A HISTORICAL COMMUNITY, AND SO I TOOK A LOT OF PICTURES. I STEPPED OUTSIDE THEIR CITY BUILDING. THEY HAD THE COOLEST CARPET. SO I GOT PICTURES. SO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW.

Tim is actually the one that gave me the idea for a marble looking tile. And I think that could work as well, but I really do. I'm still thinking that maybe carpet in that. South half makes some sense or anywhere south of that entry door. I guess. And so maybe we do a mix of some kind.

I think you need something solid on what people are going to be walking.

Yes, the high traffic areas. Yeah, something that's easy to maintain.

When I went in, it was looking really nice. Yeah. The office was...

Yeah, I've not even been over there since he started working.

I need to go to the bathroom. Yeah, and of course then they've got to work for the elevator.

Go ahead. To update you on the floor, that's pine. It's not going to work.

Yeah, I know. But it's probably best anyway just to cruise across it with something new that looks old and Leave it there. All right. So that project is progressing. We'll move on the new business. There's nothing on our agenda. Is there anything new from the council?

You want to address that now, or is that something we need to look at?

I think this is probably something that we need to try to address. Not here. That was sent to yeah, we've got a, we've got a letter about a utility customer that, but I don't believe that it's germane to this meeting. So. It could become so, but it's not currently so we'll try to address this in another way. Nothing else from the council, anything else from anyone in attendance tonight. Yes, ma'am please go ahead.

I don't know if everybody's been aware, but I see it in the paper and I know Pam was aware. They're trying to eliminate polling place here in Atlanta. So people need to be aware that. There was a, I can't September 29th. And you remember about September 29th. Yeah, but it's awesome. You can send Kathy. I can't read that, yeah. About your opinion of that. One more thing, if we sit quiet, Atlanta will get eliminated. So please take this into consideration.

And I wish more of you would come back for all. It's nice to see other people here at the board meetings. Thank you.

Thank you, Neela.

So what, do they have a proposal?

It's called voting centers. They're looking, the county election board's looking at forming voting centers. Not only will it affect Atlanta, it'll affect Arcadia. There will be, CISRA will still have a polling place.

There'll be two in Arcadia. Huh? There'll be two in Arcadia. Is the idea that there'll be two in Arcadia? SAC in the high school.

Right.

Right, right. But nothing in Atlanta, potentially? No. But is the idea of a voting center that you could vote at any of them?

Yes, correct. Just like early voting. If it passes, you'll be able to vote again.

Yeah, but a lot of residents .

Yeah. I know it is. I agree. I'm not saying I'm in favor.

How many people did we get voting in Atlanta? Not many.

Okay. Anything else from anyone in attendance tonight? Well, I appreciate you all being here and for your interest in our town. We have a motion to sign claims and adjourn. I'll make that motion. We'll sign claims and adjourn council meeting.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Aye.