Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Commission meeting to order. It is 5:30. Uh he had turned them on so I think we're off now. Let's see. There we go. Green. Okay. Thanks. Um I don't have a plan commission agenda. I don't know if there's any business from any condition members at the moment, but if there's I think you were absent at the last meeting. Dealers are here tonight.

Uh to discuss uh their property down on Central Street. Sure. over here was a month ago of mine and discuss uh they're wanting to put a outdoor storage uh like boats campers on their property and uh behind the house

behind the house there and uh I've looked through the book here and I don't know the correct way to proceed with this personally and But that's what they've requested. Be it a a zoning change. If you read through it's currently zoned agricultural uh and agricultural doesn't permit right that storage. It it does permit farm storage but not require zoning. Yes. usage.

The only thing I could find under special exception uses under the agricultural section was uh commercial outdoor storage of farm materials is what it states. And it also has a special exception used for farm and equipment sales and store service. But I I don't find anything in there with outdoor storage. Uh does Atlanta, it's been a long time since I looked

the ordinances and I made the mistake of giving my copy to somebody that was supposedly going to buy the house there before. My daughter bought it. But as I recall, Atlanta had three commercial zoning, C1, C2, and C3. And what was a little different Atlanta versus the way the county does it, like for instance, I have a C3 property in the county and I have a I lease a farm lot there and I have an outdoor storage facility and the county allows the uses up to C1, C2, and C3. But as I recall, unless it has changed, Atlanta's ordinance was more specific. You have C1 uses, C2 uses, and C3 uses. And so if you have C3, you can't do C2 or C1 and so on. So, I would think that, you know, anytime you say the word outside that it would require a higher zoning. Um, you know, probably the C3 because I originally when I had all 10 acres there, uh, was going to make five 2 acre lots of C2 because at that time it met all the requirements. It was an art road. We had 200 ft of frontage. Mhm.

Um, and what I was thinking was a place for contractors or whatever to have a pole barn and keep their equipment or whatever just because, you know, there's a need for that. But that was quite a while ago and then the economy took a a nose dive. Um, and uh, the boat was actually the same. And then the board flipped over and Gary Ralph called me and said, "If you want to do that, you can." Then I thought, "Well, gee, I don't know if I want 10 acres zone commercial." And and just pay my taxes. And, you know, but the question at that time was, you know, well, why do you want the zoning before you do something? It's like, well, if I don't have the zoning, then they won't cut. Uh but then you know that the board changed and they were all willing to do it but I shed back on it. The property does have a little bit of commercial history back when they sold antiques back there in the the barn way back then there in the day. And my daughter currently has um commercial you know a variance for uh her business there. Uh but that does not include the two acres. In the main question, there's so much going on with this. We both attended the meeting uh last week um at the middle school

to try to get a better idea of what's going on and then we met personally with Steve Dillinger um you know because it's two different sides to these stories and they painted a picture how the commissioners are the bad guys and and all this and that that that the utility, you know, wants to get all these permits and they they They're asserting that maybe the commissioners are in bed with utility company and all this and it's all hearsay, right?

Um my experience has been that the county has been good. I've always represented myself and as long as you're not doing something that's crazy or offensive, uh and I've never generated a complaint uh ever. Um, it's a pretty low intense thing when people just come to get their camper or their boat. Typically, most people don't even camp more three, four or five times a year. And with their boats, they just want a place usually to put their trailer in the summer, you know, and and this and that. So it's not a it doesn't generate a lot of traffic or noise or there won't be any need as we discussed last time for Atlanta to to give us you know run a water line or any of that stuff lighting um I know your concern was that um we screen ups and you wanted to hear when are we going to do that? I couldn't give a definitive answer just like with this annexation issue,

right? I would be curious. I don't know what the difference between the tax rate and farm and Atlanta is but everybody knows farm tax rates extremely low and uh getting changing but you know if it's unimproved property no buildings no nothing it may not be that great of amount and and helping Atlanta would be fine you know in in that case because of course you want the tax revenue coming for that if things are a a little backwards in the fact that I bought that property because it had every city utility

in place and it was 10 acres and I thought some small developer at some time. I bought it in 2003, but the wheels of progress sometimes go slow and then the economy sort of took a dump in 2008. But now there is some more growth and just looking around. People neighbors don't really want to see that stuff in, you know, let's say somebody wants three bucks. I mean, I'm sure you guys are all familiar with Riverwood.

And for some reason, they're having a 25 or 40 year old boat sitting that didn't around is never going to run sitting in your yard is like a an ornament for them or something. And and uh it might help, but we can complement each other in the fact that you can say, "Well, there's a place to go," which we know there's another alternative, but they're pretty full. But we plan on being affordable. Um, in fact, I named mine affordable outside stores and I'm under market rate and I know Jacqueline would want to do the same thing. And as assuming if we could get this as it progresses and is actually got some income then, you know, fencing and all that. As I recall the C2 requirement that I was going for talked about so many trees per so much. Um, we don't want gravel. Gravel makes dust. I I'm a firm believer in asphalt buildings because they don't generate dust and they drain well. You get 53s with shaker in it, it's like concrete. You got puddling everywhere. Nobody wants that. So, um, you know, it's it's, uh, but I don't know. Well, I'm sort of running all over the place on this, but I just sort of want to lay it out on the table. And if you have any questions or whatever far as this, I can speak from experience. I've been doing this for about 15 years, and I've not generated any complaint. I have been surrounded by neighborhoods with HOAs and I generally just service the community that's immediately around me. Uh Atlanta's sort of out here, you know, and it it takes time. We're not the lakes aren't close by. you know, it

could take years for it to get a lot of people say,

but in the meantime, in the interim, she's moved and uh she's got a great tenant. They're in their 40s. They're going to mow. They've agreed to take care of all that, do that. So, Dave doesn't have to come down and and and do that. And and they're both uh got great jobs. You know, I don't think she could have got any luck here. get a good tenants. I've made some mistakes in the past. I think no youngsters, but anyway, uh um so with the fencing and all that, uh you know, we're of course open to the idea and we'd like to do that if nothing else, just so people feel safer about that. mind it's completely fenced and I have an automatic gate with the code and all that stuff

because really to attract people especially if you're remote safety is going to be one of their big concerns

and at the same time we don't want kids playing around over there or whatever so as soon as it was feasible uh you know we would like to to screen it but in I don't know what the C I can't recall the C3 was for screening but the C2 requirement was not a a lot of burden it, you know, so many trees. So, you know, every so often and this and that. Um, which I would recommend like the fur trees or something, you know, that wouldn't leave lose all its leaves in the winter time because, uh, it can actually, you know, serve as pretty good screening all on itself. Be super costly. Yeah, there is a C2 and a C3. And u C2 ask for it says a privacy fence. C3 uh does as you mentioned uh on the outdoor storage indoor or outdoor with screening is what it says. So like I shared with you the last time you were here, this process is completely new to me.

Sure. So, I wish I could just tell you the next step and hopefully with all of us sitting here, we can we can figure out what the next step is so we can

Well, initially because there's the barn and the house and all this, we would start to where nobody would see anything anyway. It would be immediately behind that. Um, and I can't say how much demand there's going to be. Uh, you know, and I I think it's we would be flexible and and certainly if anybody was complaining, uh, but if if the town said, you know, you've been there 10 years, let's stick something here more or whatever. Not that we would have to wait 10 years, but Sure. you know, if there's only four campers there,

right? Yeah. You know, we're very profitable with it. I mean, we're we're taking a risk, but we're just we're not farmers and right

when I bought that property, the weeds were 8 feet tall on the whole 10 acres thing. Somebody bought it as an investment. Their brother died and he was the and the guy just let him go. Um and and I med took care of it and made friends with Doug Stoops pretty quickly and my old chief writer and it broke down and he let me borrow his trailer. Didn't even know but he'd only seen me there one other time and you know I thought that was great. you know that you have a either C2 or C3 still be that friendly I don't know if that's going to work for

and ever since then we've always got along so make copies of this too so besides screen error are there any other concerns that come to mind well C2 and C3 both have setback requirements uh number one I'm not sure what you're talking about how big of a lot or it's two acres but is it already a separate parcel or are you going to break it off

no it's already separate And then the one acre is most of the frontage and then there's about 40 or 50 ft where there it would which would serve as a driveway. So the front set back off central would automatically be probably a minimum 100 and some feet that way from the sides. She owns the acre that and all the way back to where the corn field is. So, uh I don't know is it a 50ft set back or did they It's 40 plus a buffer yard.

Okay. So, that still leaves plenty of room. Uh which buffer yards an additional 10 and it has to have trees planted in it. One deciduous canopy tree and one needled to evergreen tree every 30 feet of continuous boundary.

And all trees must be planted within 5 to 15 ft of the property line. You want a copy of this?

Yes, please. How many acres did you say that was? It's two. Two. Three total. You know the one acre that's north of that.

Okay. Just looking at C2 versus C3. C2 is a minimum of two acres and C3 is a minimum of three acres. The what they're going to be using for business is only two acres. So that kind of forces you to see two. Yeah. still think it has to be changed to commercial. Oh yeah, you might think so too.

Is a C2 is a commercial. Yeah. So yeah, last time we knew you guys thought maybe we could stay on agriculture.

Yeah. And after reading that, reading through that, it doesn't permit what they're wanting to do. It was only farm storage was all agriculture. I know I had mentioned that at the last meeting about staying agriculture but after reading through this that's not permitted. Appreciate that. Do you know the process to switch from agricultural to commercial? Is that just a a vote or is that

location of some sort? Yeah, I think there is a process of notifying neighbors and stuff like that. I'm not entirely sure on that because I've never been a part of one, but um sure it says it in here somewhere. Um, so it's a twoacre property. No, it's it would have its own access, its own drive and all that. Are there any buildings on it already or is this a

It's a different part of Okay. It looks like C2 is the perfect fit for it.

Sure. Because if it allows automotive sales, this isn't near as intense as auto sales. So the problem is we could do this but then if it's one of these special exception uses that's a BZA thing. They would have to grant a variance for that. As far as I understand it it's an allowable special exemption but that that so then that requires getting for sure that requires getting um you know notifying neighbors and then going before the BCA and I talked to Kevin He said this

explain the whole situation. Reszoning is not him but uh uh I just lost the word. Variance is Yes. Okay.

So, um I don't know if there's a I mean I guess there's no way to really know if you would be successful in that process. You probably would. I'm just curious under permitted uses. I mean, this is pretty short list here, but they're pretty intensive uses. I uh I mean the because it's not specifically listed. Um it is specifically listed in the special exception uses though.

Oh, for outside storage it is. Yeah. business, general business. Yeah. Outside storage facility shall be enclosed with a privacy fence. Okay. So, you're right. It would seem like a body shop would be more intense than outdoor storage. However, it is an enclosed. It specifically says those are enclosed in a building. Okay. So, um I think that might be part of the reason those differ. Also, none of us had anything to do with writing any of this. Sure. May or may not make sense. I assume it was adopted from somebody. Yeah. uh because it's basically the same as has been um

so on C3 it's under permitted many storage facility I think they consider many storage like uh what you think of a storage a place with the mini garage doors inside yeah inside storage kind of a place or indoor outdoor or however you would consider that cuz it's in the special exception there's uh indoor or outdoor with screening. So that would be just general storage to me that fits closer to what you all are talking about. But that's a that's a three acre,

right? And that would be a threeacre minimum and there's different standards for C3 beyond that as well. I don't know if you can get a variance if you have like two because she actually has three. And so that we we wouldn't reszone if you don't meet the standards. I mean, we just we can't these are the zoning standards for that type of property. So, you could get a potentially get a variance once you have it zoned a certain way. But I'm just saying I'm I don't think that we could uh reasonably uh zone something uh when it's not even close to the size it's supposed to be. But of the C2 it would Sure. the two acres.

Yeah. That's two acre minimum. So you you would fit that if it's two acres. All right. Yeah. Well, I mean if that's the route we have to go. Um but you know how it is. Nobody can stand for somebody else to seems like do anything different or or whatever to where you know what what distance do you on your adjoiner list? What distance do you have to send out the the mail?

I don't know. So, we're gonna have to find out more about this process. I don't know anything about this other than that. I heard that you all might want to reszone part of your property or or at least change use of some of it. That's all I know. Um, and I don't know if any of you all had looked into this at all. Since the last meeting, but I guess we need to find out more about it, what is even possible, and then what that process is. So, I'm sorry if this meeting is a waste of your time. with with county as I mentioned. Sure. And they have you get it at the courthouse property adjoined or less

and they have so many feet. I think they require 200 feet. But if really the only people I could see that would even possibly see it are just anybody that's on central, you know, that's on the west side of the street there. the neighbor that they sold the two acres to. And then there's another house to the north that I think Lee used to own that has three acres on it. I know Allan owned it after that. I don't know the name of the people that own it, but to me because they're the only ones that could even see anything,

you know. And then then technically the farm that would be to the east since they're an adjoining property owner and the person that bought the five acres to the south. Um but I I think I'm not sure anybody would object. I just think we'd have to notify them and make sure they don't, you know, because we have that problem by approving something and neighbors saying, "Oh, I don't want this here." we had to go that route.

So many times people don't understand. Every time I've had to put up a building, there was a lack of communication from the people we sent the notices out to. They wouldn't call the plan department. And also I was doing this put in a glorified threecar garage and attaching it to my front office. And the rumors my sister-in-law lives in the neighborhood. It's in the near path area. and and they were saying I was going to come on their property and cut down their trees and everybody got all wound up about nothing. And then three or four of them showed up at the meeting and when they saw what it was, they'd already signed up to speak and the first guy walks up there with his hands in his pocket said, "Looks good to me." And so much of the time it's just lack of understanding. people don't know, but we always want to be good neighbors. Um,

sure. I' I've owned up here since 2003, and you know, it's it's a wonderful little town. Um, my grandson's played ball on that field. My son is umpired over there. Um, I just uh but we're not we don't want to do anything that we would think would be offensive or or whatever. Um, and so much uh like I said, we we don't even know if we'll get any business. Is there is there a way to uh not expedite this, but to not have to wait for another month for another planning commission meeting? But uh

we could set a meeting date, but I think what they want more than anything is answers to questions right now. Is that right? Like what would this process even be? Yeah. Just Yeah, it's uh So if I can get that information to you, if I can talk to our attorneys and we can we can get that to you, at least you'd have a better understanding of if it's even the process you want to try to go through. Uh and then based on whatever you say there, we could set a plan commission meeting. Does that sound fair? Sure. I just wouldn't want to wait month. You don't need to waste another month of your time. Like you you you at least need answers. Um so,

um if that's okay with you, I'd like to talk to our attorney and try to get a better understanding of the process so that I can relay that. The boundaries I just talked about, does that seem like they're the people that should be notified? I have no idea. It makes logical sense, but I have no idea. Okay. Uh it's going to be whatever the requirements are. So we're not that's fall that falls under different well either way we're not going to make it up like it's there's already a standard for it. So that's okay what we'll follow. I just don't know what that standard is. So okay. Uh but it's probably along the lines I mean you've done this before so you're probably thinking along the lines of what it is. I just don't want to tell you wrong. Um

okay. Um, can I work on that and I'll get in touch with you all like in the next week, week and a half, something like that. Is that okay? All right. Thank you so much. Thank you letting us figure out what we don't really know either. Thank you. Thank you. It's not really all that bad. I mean, I've had to do it. I had to get a barracks every time because my property it was 2200 feet deep and only 100 feet wide and so my setbacks

to put up any kind of building it's like the 150 foot setback it's like well 50 and 50 there's nothing so I've always had a gut get a bear it's but it's not really that bad you know at least working with the county never too well thanks all right uh somebody else have pl a gentleman in the second row there. You here to address planning commission? Yes. Okay. Okay. Well, we'll see what we can do. What What are you What are you uh uh I was here on by the request of Rick. Okay. Superintendent.

He's our building commissioner. Yeah, that's right. Um he had he had mentioned that it would probably be very good to come and talk with the commission community. You guys may have some questions about it. You going to get me to stop this? Well, it's I I appreciate getting to uh see you and I'm glad that you're here. I don't have any questions. I I trust that you're planning in accordance with what our ordinances are and the zoning and everything. Oh yes, absolutely. And we met with HCSO earlier today. Sure.

The way that it sounded on the phone call was that if there were some outstanding questions or some some concerns that maybe would be addressed and that's why I was coming tonight. I just wanted to make sure there are any questions or concerns we could uh you know talk through them together. Do you want to talk just brief overview of what you're what you're trying to do?

Uh sure. Uh the the purpose of the project is to finish the uh un the unimproved portion of the mobile home community off of Indiana. Um I think at this point 16 sites uh all over 5,000 square ft. Um they're full served with electric, water, and gas. Um we're working with HCSO right now on drainage. Um ultimately we're going to we proposed a detention basin on the west side of the property inside the basement uh for the legal drain which we're talking HSO to a non- encroachment door. Um it's 16 ft wide on the uh drive a uh we're proposing one way for the 3/4 turn section uh just to kind of mitigate any traffic issues.

Other than that we're trying to keep everything as simple as possible. We're not trying to tear up a whole bunch of stuff. We're trying to put as much of the grass uh you know in place as possible can. Obviously tearing out or uh tension based as much as we can. Are these all on the outside of the loop? Uh these are all inside of the driveway loop. Yes. So, the driveway loop is actually being um realigned because the current driveway loop is actually sticking into that uh legal uh drain ement by ft or so.

Uh we're actually clearing that out. There's also two structures that are there that are currently more or less they're pretty much full of sediment. Um our plan is to actually take those out. of cap those off. So those are no longer entering the regulated drain in application of the B tab and instead taking that water putting it into the proposed detention basin with a patrol or we on the south side that will tie it to uh they call it structure pin. Um it's whatever that southernmost large six foot diameter structure is. What is going to happen to the one that burnt? Is that going to get repaired or pulled out or? There was one that burned at the end

and then on the very end of the row there was a trailer that burned out on the south side. I was not privy to that knowledge. Okay. I will talk with our client who is the property manager that's uh see if they have any ideas. If so, I'd be happy to uh send those on to the council and see what they have to say. So, you're you're moving the the roadway on the southern side. You're getting rid of that or you're moving it a little bit north to get off of the eastment. Yes. Yeah. So, we're moving we're shifting everything kind of north and east. Okay.

Um and then we're also taking out the second entrance that's closest to Jackson and Indiana. that little um we were looking through that and it just made more sense from a traffic pattern standpoint to try to minimize any access there plus the one that's coming from the top of the north. Okay. Um just to clean things up and hopefully have a little safety that So all new homes will be on the inside of that. All new homes and you said 16 uh currently at 16 lots. Is it back to front on both sides of the of the loop? So I had but I didn't if you would please. Oh absolutely. I brought one just in case I didn't know I'd have to say

you dropped a set here at the last meeting. Yeah, we we've actually got it. I just don't think any of us have had over at the garage the garage too. Okay. No, absolutely. And um by all means feel free to reach out if there's any other questions. Uh if I need to come back up here for a special council meeting or anything like that. We just want to make sure and play nice to your guys' sandbox. Sure. Thank you. Well, if there's no other specific questions for him, do you have anything that you need from us? Not at the moment. As long as everybody's uh seems to be okay with it at this point or since there hasn't been much conversation yet. Um, would you mind saying your name again? My name's Adam. Okay.

I'm with Patreon. I just wish there would be some kind of decision about that trailer though in the end. I was not I was not aware of that that confirmed. So, um I mean our job is really the the engineering and surveying for the project at hand. But I'll definitely make that report. Uh if they are not aware of that, see what they can do about that. Is it the one that the very very back end? Yeah, it's it's on the south side pretty far to the west. Okay. Um I'm if it's the one I'm thinking of I know that that's also encroaching inside that I don't know.

I know it's not I know it's not your deal, but it is something about I will see if I can figure out All right. Well, thank you. All right. Uh we've gone over here. Is there a motion to uh adjourn our commission? Make a motion. I'll second. All in favor? I Thank you.