Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

So, good afternoon. Um it's Wednesday, May 6th. Um the time is 12:02 and so I'm calling to order this um Athens City Planning Commission meeting. Um the first item on the agenda is to establish a quorum quorum. We presently have four of the five commission members. So we do have a quorum. Um, I would like to ask anyone who may wish to speak uh to raise your right hand and and it would be for the uh Ohio recovery uh housing presentation or or item under communications or any other business to raise your right hand and uh and confirm the this fact that um anything that you might present or uh speak to here at this commission will be accurate and true to the best of your knowledge. And if you do, thank you. Uh the the first item or the next item on the agenda is the disposition of our last meeting which was March 4th. Um and so commissioners, I think we all have in front of us the uh minutes to that meeting. Do any does anyone have any questions or uh changes that might need to be made or at the or would somebody like to propose we accept the minutes as presented?

Make a motion to approve. Is there a second? I have a second. Thank you. Um so again, any any any other questions or concerns there? If not, then uh all in favor say I. I. I. Thank you. Any any opposed? No. I I didn't think there. Okay. Thank you. Uh we have no cases today. The um the the next item on the agenda following the cases is communications. And what we've got on the agenda for communications is the Ohio Recovery Housing Facility and a chance for questions and answers. So if you'd like to recuse yourself from this, you may do that.

Very much. Yes, I'll recuse myself as is appropriate on this matter. Thanks. Thank you. So with that, uh, well, um, would, um, me, Miss Jennings or Mr. Pile, would either of you like to say something before we open it up here for the presentation? Mr. Chair, I'm happy to introduce our speaker. Okay.

Um, our speaker is from the Ohio Recovery Housing LLC. that is the if I understand it correctly and I'm sure she will explain it uh in detail um they're the entity that is responsible for inspecting recovery houses in the state of Ohio on behalf of the state of Ohio. I believe they work for the department of behavioral services. I encountered the Ohio recovery housing uh when I started in February. There was u uh considerable um u traffic in in my world about recovery houses operating in the city. And so as I began to investigate, I learned of the LLC, uh, the high recovery houses, and I I set up a a Zoom meeting with some of their staff about a month ago and had my staff attend the meeting. It was about an hour long. It was just a presentation, a general presentation about how recovery houses are supposed to operate in the state of Ohio. And uh, they provided us considerable uh, literature that we hadn't had to that point. And I I I came away from that 1-hour Zoom meeting uh thoroughly impressed uh with their presentation and I thought it would be good opportunity to bring that uh um that presentation to the community. Uh so I discussed with the administration and we thought the planning commission meeting was the appropriate place to to have them come and do their their general presentation about how recovery houses are are u supposed to operate in the state of Ohio. and then uh they are prepared to answer some questions.

Good. So, uh um I've forgotten her name already, but I believe it's Wendy Man. Kelly Man. Kelly Man. Thank you. Close. Okay. Please come to the microphone and then state your your name once again and uh where who you work for and where you know where you're located. Sure. My name is Kelly Mans. I am I am the co-inter executive director for Ohio Recovery Housing. We are a statewide organization. Our home office is in Columbus, but our staff work remotely throughout the state. So, personally, I'm from down in Warren County near Kings Island. Okay.

I appreciate you all giving us the time to do this presentation today. I'll tell you, I'm struggling because I feel like I should be this way. I'm not used to having my back to anybody. Um, but you know, we'll make it work. So, I brought some PowerPoint presentation slides that hopefully will be helpful, but I'm not sure how to get them up on the screen. They're right there. Look at that. It's magic.

So, the mission of Ohio Recovery Housing is to increase access to affordable, highquality recovery housing for people with substance use disorder. That is our whole purpose. This is what we do. There is what's called the National Alliance of Recovery Residences. That's the national body. We are the state affiliate. Each state can have one affiliate. And as that and our responsibility is that we re we create and maintain a review process for standards of excellence for recovery housing. We also provide training opportunities. We provide advice on how to operate quality housing. We produce reports and guides. And we do cast tool estimates on recovery housing needs. We educate and inform on recovery housing. We work to ensure that stakeholders and decision makers know what quality recovery housing looks like. We advocate for recovery housing as a critical piece of the continuum of care for people in recovery. We also advance recovery housing as an evidence evidence-based practice, collect data, and educate and inform on how to use the data. So, what recovery housing is, it's housing for individuals recovering from alcohol use disorder or drug addiction that provides an alcohol-free and drug living free environment, peer support, assistance with obtaining alcohol and drug addiction services, and other alcoholism and drug addiction recovery assistance. This is defined in Ohio Revised Code. So this is not an Ohio this is not I'm really struggling. This is not an O definition. It is the definition found in revised code.

So recovery housing is housing. It is a resident driven length of stay. They have a free choice of who they get treatment from. The house operates as a landlord and there should be a homelike environment. It is not treatment. It is not an adult care facility or a residential care facility. So by resident driven length of stay, what we mean is there's no arbitrary time limits or forcing residents to leave once treatment is completed. If they are following the rules, paying their rent, you know, abiding by all the guidelines, then they can stay. There is a quote, "The recovery housing residence shall not limit a resident's duration of stay to an arbitrary or fixed amount of time. Each resident's duration of stay shall be determined by the resident's needs, progress, and willingness to abide by the resident's protocols in collaboration with the operator, and if pro appropriate, in consultation and integration with the comm community addiction services provider. If scholarships or subsidies or free rent is offered for a time period, the operator has to work with the resident to help them pay the rent after the time period is over. So again, they operate as a landlord. Recovery homes are not treatment centers. NAR standards regarding homelike environment. We really want recovery houses to operate like a home. When we go to inspect the house, one of the first things my staff do, although it's not part of the standards, is would I want to live here? Would I want my son or daughter to live here? And that res and the other piece is residents can receive any services that can be typically delivered in a person's

private home. So if you if there is a resident who requires physical therapy, my husband required physical therapy. There was a physical therapist that came to the house twice a week and worked with him. That would be appropriate. What would not be appropriate is having an AA meeting in the house because those are done in the community. So it's really about identifying what services would be provided in anyone's home at any given place in time. So our biggest question is, do people typically do this service in their home? So recovery housing is recovery housing, meaning it's an elicit drug and alcohol-free living environment. There's strategies for peer support and recovery planning, working with people on what are your goals, how are you going to get there, let's review next week. and it's for people with substance use disorders. So, the elicit drug and alcohol-free living environment, it applies to the entire property. There must be policies, procedures, and strategies in place. Any incident of disruptions in recovery or relapse are addressed immediately and appropriately. Those are part of the measures and the standards that these operators are required to meet. Some some examples of recovery support activities. It really depends on the level of support but b again they have a recovery plan and there are policies and protocols in place for checking in and working with residents on the recovery plan. There's also a focus on developing relationships and leadership. So, the physical environment has to support resident interactions.

When we do um on-site inspections, people should not be hanging out in their bedrooms. It's really about developing that community. There should be defined strategies for residents to support one another in recovery. Resident leadership should be developed and residents have a voice in governing the home. Not that they get to make the rules, but they should have some input on, you know, how things operate on a day-to-day basis. So, under the National Alliance for Recovery Residences, there are four levels of recovery housing in the state of Ohio. Level four is not certified by Ohio Recovery Housing. That is a residential treatment and it is licensed by the Department of Behavioral Health. We do certify levels one, two, and three. Level three are considered supervised. These are homes for people who are very new to sobriety. And one of the primary requirements is that staff must be present whenever residents are present in the home. Level two is considered monitored, which means individuals who are coming into the house. What we look for is a minimum of 28 days of continuous sobriety. There are a few very nuanced reasons for exceptions, but what we require is that staff be present in the house. a minimum of four days a week physically to physically check in on the residents and the condition of the house and that they are also communicating with the residents every day checking in how are you doing? What's going on? Where have you been? Did you go to work? Did you hit your

meetings? Those kinds of things. And then level one is considered peerrun. This is these houses are for people who have a minimum of 6 months of continuous sobriety before they move in. They tend to be democratically run. In all of the houses, one of the requirements is a drug screening upon entry. Um, for level 3es, it's drug screening on a random basis. For level twos, it's drug screening if there's suspicion of use. And then in a level one, they also do drug screenings on suspicion of use. So the general differences. So residents are looking for others for support look as opposed to looking for staff in a level two. Level threes mainly serve people early in recovery and level ones again mainly serve people with more recovery and are more appropriate to support each other. Recovery housing leads to positive outcomes. Increased employment and income and we have the data to support this. Decrease de debt, decrease substance use, increase positive relationships with family. The data shows recovery housing save costs. For every dollar invested in recovery housing, Ohio saves $6 in reduced criminal justice expenses, reduced child services expenses, reduced medical expenses, and reduced addiction services expenses. Recovery housing also stimulates the envir environment. For every dollar invested in recovery housing, $24 is generated in the local economy because people in recovery housing go to work,

earn an income, pay taxes, buy things, they increase their credit, and engage in formal banking, and they spend their dollars in the local community. Recovery housing is workforce housing. It provides affordable living environments. Part of living in a recovery house is to build formal and informal job skills. How do you write a resume? How do you do an interview? How do you respond to these questions? It builds workforce readiness. Everything from education to gathering documents. residents can be a pipeline to fill needed jobs in behavioral health and other fields. The land the laws that apply to recovery housing, landlord tenant law, federal and state fair housing law. Again, this is a landlord. building codes. All recovery houses must follow all building health and safety codes of their local um area, geographic area. They have to follow all employment laws. We've had in the past where recovery houses have said, "If you go work for my company, I'll give you free rent." That is not appropriate. and they have to also follow Ohio charitable law for nonprofit organizations and all other tax laws. So, there were some legislative changes made with House Bill 33, which was two budgets ago. All recovery homes must complete a form with the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health to let the department know they exist. And the form must be completed within 30 days of the first resident moving in. Now again, I'm really struggling. That's

the Department of Behavioral Health. That's their rule. Then starting January 1st of 2025, recovery homes by law need to be appropriately credentialed in order to operate in the state of Ohio. They can either be certified by the state affiliate of the national alliance of recovery residences which in Ohio is Ohio recovery housing. they have to or be chartered by Oxford House or there was a nuance in that if they had CARF accreditation for community housing that went into effect prior to January 1st of 2025, they could operate under that accreditation, but then they had to transition to Ohio recovery housing by the time that accreditation ended. they have to be applica active in the application process and open less than 18 months. So right now the way that the law reads is if someone wants to open a recovery house and they have an active application with Ohio Recovery House by the date the first resident moves in, they can operate for 18 months without being certified. recognizing that through that 18 months, they are actively working with Ohio Recovery Housing to get certified. Starting January 1st of 2025, community behavioral and mental health providers may only refer to recovery housing residents that are on the Ohio DBH website or registry. We call it the statewide registry. programs must meet the credential requirements to be on the registry, even if it's for their own program. So, if you have a treatment provider who also has housing, if their housing is

not on the statement or on the statewide registry, they cannot refer to their own housing. And providers must document referrals made to recovery housing residences. So, what do we look for in certification? One, we look at administration, administrative and operational standards. Do they have appropriate policies and procedures in place? Are they registered as a business? Do they have insurance? Then we look at recovery support. Are they engaged in are they engaging residents in recovery supports? Do they have strategies to help people? Does every resident have a recovery plan? Then we look at the good neighbor policy. Do they have a policy? Are they following general practices to be a good neighbor? And then we do a physical property inspection. Is the property homelike? Is it free from obvious safety hazards? Is it well-maintained? And please understand that this is just a very high level of what we go into. We review every line of every policy that is required. We spend hours at the houses going through every room, you know, looking in attics, looking in basement. So very high level here. So the certification process, we have an online application. It's a user portal called roads. When someone applies, they have to put in their EIN number, information about their organization. They have to upload a multitude of policies and procedures. We review those policies and procedures against the established measures. Then we do an on-site visit and an interview. The interview is to find out if the policies that have been submitted

are actually being implemented in practice. People can submit beautifully written policies, but then we go to the interview and if they can't explain their policies to us, we know something's wrong. And then again, we do a review of each dwelling. We do allow people to make corrections. So, if they submit a policy that doesn't meet the measures, we send them back a report and says, "This policy is missing these pieces." And you have 20 days to get it corrected and back to us. If we go to an on-site, I was actually at one Friday. There were some minor things. There were knobs missing off dresser drawers. You know, there was a globe missing from a light bulb. Or if it's major things, we send a report and they've got to correct it. There are cases where we go back to do a second on site depending on the amount of corrections or the magnitude of corrections. There are times with like the globes for the light bulbs. We would accept a picture So complaints. O is the front door for complaints. We report all complaints to the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health so they know what's happening. We triage the complaint and help the person move to the next steps. If the house is certified by O, we do an investigation. If it's certified by Oxford House, we pass that information on to them. If they are not certified, we report them to the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health. So if someone is not certified or if certification gets revoked, this is what happens with complaints. the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health can refer the organization to the attorney general and the attorney general can seek an injunction and this has happened and or local prosecutors can seek

criminal penalties. This has happened as well. This is our website for where to file a complaint, our phone number, and then our general info@ Ohio Recovery Housing for any specific questions you may have. I see people writing furiously. I'm happy to leave a copy. You've got a copy of the slides here. Um, I will tell you if you go in your search bar and just type in Ohio Recovery Housing, our website will come up. If you click on it, on the front page, there's a big button that says complaints. But you're welcome to copy this all down if you like. Oops. So, I'll leave that up. So, that was my I don't know, five minute presentation, 10-minute presentation. I used to have an executive director that actually had a watch that would tie me. Um, but I'm open for any questions.

Okay. So, um, well, we'll start with any of the commissioners who might have questions for you. Um, Mr. Stone, did you have some if you want to start?

Sure. And thanks so much for coming and and and presenting. This is a tremendous amount of information and it's great. Uh I think we've all learned a lot. And and you were speaking to the home audience when you were looking this way. So there were probably more people watching you when you're looking this way than than are behind you now. I know it feels weird, but but don't you know don't don't worry. Um hey, how do operators get paid? Do the residences s residents sign a lease? Like what is the business model for an operator to exist? So yes, the residents sign a lease. There is no funding for recovery housing. Medicaid or insurance does not pay for housing. So in many cases, operators are required to have a lease regardless. There are some communities or counties where the county mental health board may subsidize for the first 30 or 60 days, but that's up to the county and the contracts that they have. There are some organizations that do a tremendous amount of fundraising again to subsidize people sometimes for that first 30, 60, 90 days. So they do a lot of funded braided funding, but again there is no direct funding line for recovery housing.

Ultimately they get paid by the residents through a lease. Yes. Just like any other landlord. Correct. There's not like an external entity that's paying them. Correct. To operate this for people that aren't paying on a lease. Yes. Okay. Thank you. The second question I have is you talked about um the the policies and procedures um that that are you know part of the certification process. How do operators enforce those standards of behavior for say the alcohol and drug-free conditions and behavior and and and different things in the house? What what is the me what do you typically see?

So it depends on the level of housing but for say level 3es staff are present whenever residents are present. That's the requirement. So if they see someone who is using or think they are using the first thing they do is give a drug test.

They can you know refer them to a higher level of care. In some cases unfortunately if someone is very combative they may call the police. But each house is also required to have a policy that's called disruption and recovery. Which means if you have someone in your house who returns to active use, what is your policy? What are your procedures for addressing that? Now, to be honest, if someone would be over overdose, god forbid, then you've got to address that medical need first before you can do anything else, but they are required to have very clear policies and procedures in place.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you. And then and then another question. You talked about the three levels, and I don't think I was aware of of those levels yet as we've been discussing this. Can a local government find out what level a house operator is planning to get certified under? Um, or is that is that like if we go uh and check the registration? That is a process that has to happen within 30 days. Can that local government say, "Oh, this person is registered to get certified as a level two." Or or can do we know that?

Yes. If well if they have filled out the form and if they have submitted an application with Ohio recovery housing on the registry it will show as either it's new language P which is peerun which is a level one um M which is monitored or level two or S which is supervised or level three but that is on the registry. Okay. You won't see it until they've submitted an application though. Okay. Okay. that first 30 days, you don't know. But then after that, well, two different things. Two different things. So, for the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health, you have to do this registration form within the first 30 days. Okay.

For Ohio recovery housing by the date the first resident moves in. You've got to submit an application. Gotcha. And that's when they should show up on the registry. I understand. Your other option is always to reach out at this info@ ohioveryousing.org and we can tell you. We can look into the back end of the system, but it should be public record through the statewide registry. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, would you like I thank you for being here. Uh, no questions at this time.

So, well, I have one thing. Um, it it seems as though uh the residents that we've had that we had here on uh on Madison Avenue anyway were all from central Ohio. How do you how do you work that? I mean, why would you bring them why would they be brought to Athens, Ohio, as opposed to trying to house them closer to the communities that they live in or grew up in or whatever.

I cannot speak to that operator's business model. I will say there are times where residents need to leave their immediate community and go somewhere else to have separation from the bad influences that they used to have. Um there are residents who just can't go home because the environment, the community is not supportive of their recovery and so their odds of maintaining sobriety re are reduced significantly. It really is or should be for certification process a resident driven choice. I cannot say why people in Columbus would want to move to Athens. Nothing personal against Athens. Um you know again I can't speak to that particular business model.

Okay. Okay. Um, do either of you have some questions you'd like to ask? Well, yeah. I don't uh remember specifically what prompted me to write this down, but something you said in your presentation, and I just wanted to to make sure that the the community is clear that will accept complaints from the community on just about any issue regarding a recovery house. Is that correct?

That is correct. So, in other words, over occupancy issues, aside from the local code agency being involved in that, those can be legit. Those are legitimate complaints. Parking issues, noise issues, all of those things or considers when they look at the certification. Is that accurate? That is accurate. And if if the if a place is certified but continues to have problems, their certification uh can be in jeopardy based on those types of complaints.

Correct. If they are certified and we get those kinds of complaints, we typically do what we call an unannounced site visit where we just show up and say, "Hey, we're here." Operators have agreed to allow us to do that at the beginning of their application process and we investigate the situation. Yeah. And so as as as our agency, the code enforcement agency, uh if we should receive complaints in the future on uh recovery houses that are operating here in the city, we will certainly uh if if we have something to investigate, we will certainly involve O. But I wanted to make sure the community understood that they can involve O as well.

Always. And the website's open 247. I will tell you that we have people who like to send complaints in at two o'clock on Sunday morning, which is fine, but most likely you will not get a response until Monday morning. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You mean I know just put it on Facebook and expect somebody to respond an hour later. Lots of people put lots of things on Facebook. I can just tell you my staff will most likely not respond at 2 o'clock in the morning.

Absolutely. Thank you. And then one last thing if you don't mind. Um in the presentation that I received from uh your um one of your co-workers on the Zoom presentation, she had indicated that if recovery housing is operating as it should, most residents in a community other than noticing some new neighbors should not um experience major problems and should not really even understand that they're living next to a recovery house. Is that a fairly accurate statement? That is a very accurate statement. And so, so would it be fair to say that if if if residents in the community are starting to see issues that cause them concern that those are the kinds of things that would be interested in hearing about?

Yes. Yeah.

Yes. I will tell you there are some recovery houses around the state that the neighbors do know their recovery housing, but it's because they've been there a very long time. The people who live in the recovery houses have relationships with the neighbors. I was talking to one community not too long ago where they said it's a men's recovery house in their neighborhood and she said they come out and shovel my driveway for me. You know, I she I just come out and it's gone. You know, so yes, it is accurate. Most neighbors would not know that a recovery residence is in their house unless that type of community has evolved over time. Miss man, thank you very much. I'm going to open it up to questions and uh or or um comments from people. If people have comments, you you're you're welcome to sit and and watch. If somebody has a question specifically for you, I'll you know, I would like you to come back to them back to the uh podium then at that point. Okay. Thank you.

So So uh don't rush the podium, folks. Uh if there's anybody who has a question, let's please come forward. Na name and uh res address, I guess. Yeah, 40.

Okay. Well, maybe she could come up to the podium and stand with you as you ask. I guess I I don't know. We don't have two different microphones. So, pause a preacher here or something.

Um, first question. Um, from your experience, in what locations, from a city zoning standpoint, have you found recovery houses to work best? And in what zoning situations have you found them to be more problematic? I don't think it's a zoning or location issue. Um, I have seen some just phenomenal recovery houses operate in residential areas and as Tom pointed out, neighbors don't even know they're there. Um, it really comes down to the operator and whether they're p they've got policies and procedures in place, not the location of the house.

Okay, sounds good. Second question. House Bill 58 passed unanimously in the Ohio House 92 to nothing. Yes. It's currently in the Senate committee. Correct. What effect, if any, will this have on your operations and what effect, if any, will it have on the public's ability to live comfortably in a community that has recovery houses?

So, let me just say that you understand the Senate process. It's still in process, right? So my understanding of the language today, it may not be what passes when they pass. That's just kind of how the legislative process works. The couple of things that I am aware of is that 18month, what we call loophole that you can open a recovery house and not be certified for 18 months is going to be closed. Okay, good. Um, that's one. I know that they are also trying to build in more teeth for local prosecutors to take action. Um, but again, how the language comes out at the end, I can't guarantee one way or the other.

Right. Even though it was unanimous vote in the House, it could very much it's already been it's already been modified over in the Senate. Right. Yeah. It's in committee now. I've been following that. And the reason I'm asking all these questions, I'm on staff and city council and I'm the uh chair of the planning and development committee. and anything that the planning commission would do in terms of zoning or recommendations would flow through the city council committee. So appreciate those answers. Third question director Stone kind of hinted at or or ask about or no I'm sorry it was John Katowski asked about why would people come down here and you were doing real well till you started talking about Athens and then I no I'm just kid enjoyed your presentation.

It was a beautiful drive for me. That's awesome. From your experience, and you did mention sometimes people need to get out of their home environment because of temptations easily falling back, but from your experience, do people generally as a group do better staying close to where they live or in a remote location in general?

I don't think I have a good answer for that question. It would be a 50-50 split based on my experience. Again, it's really up it's really the individual. Yeah. Well, and the other thing is, you know, also if you take a look at just family dynamics. So, you know, if you have a family that's very supportive of your recovery, probably you want to stay close to them. If you have a family who is not supportive of your recovery, you probably don't. Okay. So, the last question I say because it's the toughest one. Okay.

How did Next Level slip through the cracks and set up two houses in Athens, Ohio? So again, we were unaware that they were moving into Athens. They had not submitted an application. We were not aware that they were here. Once we started to get complaints, they were elevated up to the Department of Behavioral Health. You know, it's the same as, you know, I could go and open a business next door without anybody necessarily knowing until I get caught. We had a vape shop do that here in town recently and our co-director has taken care of that very well. Yes. Okay. So, those things can happen. They can. Okay. All right.

And honestly, we rely on communities to tell us when that happens so we can do something. Okay. And this complaint process and the ability to do it on a website uh expedites that. Yes, it does. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. Appreciate your answers. Okay. Thanks. Anybody else? Anybody else? Ah, okay. I'm kind of surprised by that. Oh, okay. Statements, but no questions. So, Oh, yeah. That either either. Yeah, it doesn't have to be questions. Correct.

Oh, okay. Um, my name is Reie Olsen. I live at 35 Lorraine. I live across from something that I didn't know what it was, so I appreciated this. I now have an understanding. But we got no information. I met the man who came down with another family member and children and my understanding was his family was buying the house across from me. We have a very established neighborhood. I have keys to my neighbors houses. They have them to mine in case we lock each other out. We watch pets. We have parties. In other words, it's a very established neighborhood. And we were thrilled to see that probably this family was coming in. That's not what happened. No family ever appeared. Uh I'm It's hard for me to understand what happened across the street. I didn't know anything about the recovery thing. Next level. I have no idea what that is. All I knew and all of my neighbors knew is people were coming and going and moving in and moving out and vans were pulling up with shaded windows and people were coming out the front door and getting in. One day I came home from work and by the way I teach um I teach at Hawking Valley Residential Center in Nelsonville and this is a program for boys who've gotten in trouble and drugs are a lot of their problems and it's like a second chance home for them and I teach there and I love it and I've I'm totally in support of recovery houses and whatever. That's not what's happening here. Um, talking about being a neighbor, that would have been wonderful. Would have been wonderful. However, in, out, in, out, vans pulling in, black cars come. Um, it was a circus and I live right across the street.

I closed my drapes because people would be sitting on the steps directly across from me looking into my house. So, I know I'm painting a picture that this is not what you represent, but this is what can happen. Um, I locked my front door. I started parking in back. My other neighbors also often lock their front door because we didn't know who was in the neighborhood. And for them being there for a while and having jobs and getting to be neighbors, I went over to say something to someone, just good morning, and he just looked at me and turned around, walked away. I know another neighbor had different colored lights flashing in her house at night and ultimately there was an exchange of some finger language which I won't go into. So, I appreciate all that you're saying, but how did we get from this man buying this house, which we thought was a family coming in, to someone in north of Columbus, which I happen to know who it was because I did some research. They put the telephone number out front when it was up for rent. And now suddenly, we have this thing across the street from us. It was shut down. It's evident. It didn't register. When I came in from work one day and there were two police cars out front, an ambulance, and they carried someone out that probably was an overdose case. That didn't ensure me that good things were happening over there either. I am a big supporter of second chances. That's who I work with and I've taught for 40 years and I will give any kid a second chance or an adult. But I I admire everything you said today. I learned nothing that I knew when these people appeared across the street. So my suggestion would be that there's big

consideration as to how it is introduced into a neighborhood because it certainly wasn't well done here. They're gone now. And I'll tell you, I've got my fingers crossed that it won't come back. We need a family. We don't need this commercial business in and out. in and out and it is a commercial business. I believe the person that bought the house I would assume is the this organization is renting it from him. That I can't I don't know. I don't know either. And that's part of the problem. We knew nothing. I feel better now and I know this is a great program and you're representing it very well, but that's not what's happening here. Thank you,

Mr. Chair.

Yes. It's it's still unclear to me and I don't know that this is a question necessarily for Kelly, but something has changed in the wider environment. I mean, opioids have been a problem in the United States for the last 30 years, but something has changed that is creating a business case for more recovery housing to exist. And and I I don't think it's a um you know, just more 501c3s that you know really want to help people just showing up. There's some business case that's happening. So to the point of the of the speaker who said you know household presumably another organization is renting from the person who bought it who is then subsequently operating the house and and you know tenants are paying rent you know that's I mean but but we've had landlords in this town for a long time as a as a business. This is different and and we just don't quite fully understand why things are happening now. And I, you know, I don't know if it's the one Ohio money that now is creating conditions such that that there's a business case to do this, but but that's, you know, that's that's one of the things that we're trying to get our arms around is if we do local regulations at all, what they would um need to look like. So, thank you.

Is there another speaker?

Thank you. Uh, I've spoken here before. My name is Anne Rubin. I live in in Athens at Maplewood Drive. And uh I think there's people here who know me. You all know now. I've I've worked as a attorney with lowincome families uh for 40 years. I've been involved in uh recovery. I am a big supporter of recovery housing and I would brag on some of the nonprofits we have operating here in Athens such as Serenity Grove. Serenity Grove was certified by High Recovery Housing uh before it was required to be mandatory. They voluntarily got certified. They're a notfor-profit organization. Similar with the Clemhouse. They, I believe, were one of the first recovery houses in the state of Ohio to voluntarily go through certification. And so, they've been operating up to standards. And we've come to expect, I think, in Athens, a a high level of of recovery operations in Athens, uh, that take care of local citizens and, uh, people who need help. I do have a couple of questions I wanted to ask, Kelly, and um, really um, just a few things that relate to things you said. I prepared something different, but you you talked about the zoning issue. Um, we had this operator in Athens who came in uh that was not registered, was not certified, and I know the complaints were being processed through Ohio Recovery Housing. And I learned from that process that when things got escalated and sent to the Ohio Department of Behavioral Health, then the way that they're handled is there's a 90-day letter, warning letter,

then there's a 60-day follow-up letter, and then there's a 30-day follow-up letter. So, can you help inform us all about what really is the complaint procedure for someone like Miss Olsen who was seeing things that were detrimental or other people who might have seen things that were detrimental? What is the process really like for them in terms of how quickly can things get looked into? So again, we're talking generally well, but you've got certified and non-certified houses. In this case, it was a non-certified house. Correct. So it was reported to the Department of Behavioral Health.

I don't I can't speak for them, so I'm not comfortable giving you time frames. I can tell you that we do meet with them monthly um where we're saying, "What's going on with this? What's going on with this?" You know, what where are we in process? But I have no jurisdiction and I'm not comfortable speaking for the department. Okay. I'm not trying to blow you off. It's just outside of my my scope.

Okay. And then the other question I was going to ask about, so when someone has not been certified and not registered and then they're reported and they're trying to see what they have to do, they register and then they start the certification process. Is there no consequence that's imposed on the operator for having operated for those six months without going through the required steps? So for Ohio recovery housing and there is not because again they're not certified. They've submitted an application within you know 18 months. One of the things we would do though is if they had operated for 6 months and then submitted an application, we would be, you know, having a meeting with them because the requirement is by the date the first resident moves in. So waiting 6 months is not okay and it may or may not impact their ability to get certified in the future. We may deny them certification. That's one of the options we have. Um, regarding Department of Behavioral Health, if they have not registered with them within the 30 days of operating, again, that's a DBH purview. It's not an O perview,

right? But there's no um sanction that O is imposing automatically. It's a there is not discretionary. It's discretionary. Then uh you talked a little bit with Mr. swank about the House Bill 58 and I understand it could change before uh it became law but uh I my understanding and you can correct me is that it would be one year from the date of enactment before it would take effect as it's proposed right now. That is typically the way legislation works. But that is true about House Bill 58.

Yes. And I mean there's always the option. My understanding is I mean the governor can do an emergency you know enactment but typically it's just the way the process works. Okay. Thank you. Those were my questions. I had things I wanted to say to commissioners but okay I wanted to but thank you for being here. I think the first time I came here I was asking the commissioners to educate themselves about what this recovery housing is. And I really appreciate that you're here today. Happy to be here.

Thank you. I I'll make my comments. Um, but I do have some comments I want to make today. one is I've heard this um statement time and time again as you all have been processing uh possible amendments to the city housing and zoning ordinances that uh the state limits our options or the state laws making us do this and this and that. And I I really uh want to talk about that for a minute because yes, we do have state laws and we do have a state law that governs residential treatment facilities and and that law does not require the city to do anything with zoning. That law is going to apply to a residential treatment facility as the Ohio Revised Code defines it. Uh, we do have fair housing laws and and I agree with that, but the fair housing laws and the Americans with Disabilities Act does not require the city to amend the housing and the zoning codes. Right now, the city can comply with Fair Housing and the Americans with Disabilities Act without revising the ordinances and creating an open invitation or cart blanch to forprofit recovery businesses to move an unlimited numbers into Athens. move in import residents in unlimited numbers as cost centers for operators who are running a a profit business that relies on how many people can we have in a house that we transport to our center and we bill Medicaid for that. And I

think Ohio recovery housing has materials that has testified to u the state legislature about the fact that that is not truly recovery housing, but those actors do exist in the state of Ohio. And there is nothing in current law that um would pre if you open up and say we're going to allow recovery housing in uh the neighborhoods the would stop um this sort of development here further. Uh any resident right now under your current ordinances as they stand the zoning ordinances can ask for reasonable accommodation and engage in a interactive process under the ADA to uh establish what their bonafides are that they're uh how they're going to operate and what the specific need is for their services and how it would not impact the fundamental nature of the neighborhood. Those things are already law. But changing and broadening the ordinance is an open invitation. And it's actually saying that the state is making you do it. I think is a false narrative that uh you are giving an open invitation and giving permission to develop and promote recovery businesses unrestricted. that is not part of the city's development plan and it's not consistent with local needs. And okay, now I do want to talk about something and I do have some pictures about this one. The city has perpetuated allowed and perpetuated recovery houses for months from September of last year to February with an operator that was

unregistered, uncertified, had eight or nine residents in violation of the housing code that was owned by a member of this planning commission. and um uh she sat in on the initial discussion back in January without recusing herself. Uh you heard from her husband who was not sworn in and this created a very uh bad picture to the public as far as uh the commission's operation. The house itself was not up to code. And I want to show you a few things. Let me see which do I how do I start this? the right arrow key take you to the next slide.

Okay. What how do I show the current slide? Oh, it's up here. Okay.

This is the the driveway. I took this picture back in October uh to the house that was operating on Madison Avenue. And you see this is not uh unlike the house on Lorraine, 350 ft downhill to Madison Avenue. It's not visible from the street. There's uh a lot of growth uh through the on this hillside. So uh this is a very secluded spot uh to operate a re a quote unquote sober living house. This these are pictures uh from December of 2025. This is that same driveway and this is the condition it was maintained in by the owner and the operator. So, the the people that lived in the house um were basically taking the van up and down this steep driveway with no snow removal. And that should have been handled by either the operator of the recovery house or the owner of the property, but neither person was held responsible by city officials. These are things that happened. This picture was uh right before Christmas, December 23. There was so much trash accumulating because there was not enough trash uh containers according to what the city requires um that the residents uh took their trash and put it on the next door neighbors can. Okay. And there was a complaint made to to the city utilities department, but nothing was done about this. Uh this is a picture again from later in the week. The trash would pile up and pile up because there were eight people in this house and they had one trash can basically and it would pile up and then

they didn't have the house placarded to know what day the trash pickup was. So, um, the trash would, uh, be taken down on the day that it wasn't trash day cuz the operator didn't bother to tell the people what day the trash got picked up. And the property owner wasn't doing anything about it either. So, the trash would build up for weeks, they put it out on the wrong day, and then it sit down at the end of the driveway for uh, the next week. And when the code office was told about it, they just moved it up into the woods, but it wasn't secure from any animals. This LA uh pictures, these are dated of these are things that were happening right in our city. And um the the officials were not doing uh much to if anything to actually enforce anything. January 20, same thing. These are this is just how the trash would accumulate. And I know there's people on this commission who care about littering and trash and this was not good management by the company. Um but this is what was existing. The the van I heard Miss Olsen talk about the van. The van uh made it down one snowy day after they'd been isolated and stuck for a week and they couldn't get back up. So, they dropped the um just left the van down at the bottom of the hill. Well, you know what? That's a shared driveway, as you know, Mr. Katowski. And um the driveway was blocked from anybody being able to to use it. The picture on February 5th, again, the driveway was blocked. This was the day they were actually vacating the house, and the van got stuck because the snow hadn't been adequately removed. There were still icy

spots. And so, uh, again, that situation occurred. Uh, this was February 10, and this picture is showing this brown water running off down the street. This is where the sewer line was blocked to that house at 51 Madison. And it was known to have been blocked a month earlier on uh, January 13. Those people were living in that house. the sewer line was blocked and it wasn't until this day, February 10, after the people had moved out that the sewer line was addressed and repaired. This picture might be hard to read and maybe this is nitpicking, but honestly, I think you talked about the people sitting out front smoking, right? The people had nothing to do. There was they would sit outside of the house and smoke cigarettes and uh there's hundreds of cigarette butts outside that house and that has been in effect. I mean, no one cleaned them up after they moved out. Uh, I know that Ohio Recovery Housing has a rule about if for a certified house, you have to have a either a no smoking policy or a designated place outside with an appropriate receptacle is what I understand of the standards. But here's a picture of the receptacle. It's a coffee cup on the on the banister. Um, after the people had moved out, the trash was piled up. No one came and took it down. Um I don't know what the situation is there with who thinks they're responsible, but the trash was left up and added to by the the owners of the house who were doing repairs. Uh and then we had a big windstorm and

this the trash starts blowing down the hillside and no one came to pick it up. No one was taking the trash down. Um, it stayed up and I'm I pointed out this box on the top of the trash can here on March 6th. Okay. By March 11, it's blown down the hill. Nobody's done anything for most of the week to take care of the trash up there. It ended up in the ravine between the two properties uh before anything was was done about it. Uh the trash was in this condition on March 14. So they moved out February 4. Uh the trash was like this uh for animals to get into. You saw the nature of the the neighborhood. Um animals of all kinds uh could be in it. uh the trash was being torn open by animals and um ultimately uh a complaint was acted on we uh by the code office. Uh but it took over a month before that anyone actually came and addressed that issue. Now I took these pictures and I will tell you this is there's a piece of clothing that was thrown out in the yard. It was there after they moved out. It was there several weeks later in March. It It was there March 19. I think I was getting ready for one of your meetings when I put these pictures together. Still there at the end of March. And I will tell you, it's still there today. Uh that's the quality of what has happened in terms of handling litter and waste uh at that property. um the the cigarette butts, they're still there the end of March along with just random pieces of trash that blew

out of the cans that nobody's picked up. So, I went through that presentation with you because the house itself was not up to code. I think there were numerous violations found when the city code office did go in and inspect it in February. The trash was accumulated, wasn't cleared. The driveway wasn't cleared. It was blocked. And I'm saying this is at a property that's owned by a member of the planning commission. The police, the code office knew about those situations and did not act to enforce the existing ordinances. So, um, there's no consequences. There's been no consequences to anyone for the fact of how that house was operating. I do want to react to something Miss Man said about uh Kelly said about the economic impact because the folks that were living in that house I know were using the food bank and uh in terms of economic impact actually using resources of Athens uh and I don't know what the economic contribution was but anyone who's lived in Athens for a number of years knows there's not a lot of jobs. We tend to have a higher unemployment rate than our neighboring counties. There's not a lot of affordable housing where uh people coming into that house would have been able to assist themselves to get more stab after getting stabilized to get into more affordable housing. It it just was a a profit center, like I said, to have as many people as possible inside that house that could have their services

that were not provided at the house were provided out on 550 at the office. Um, but the these people um were profit centers for the owner and that is not what Ohio Recovery Housing is really about. Uh, but that was allowed to exist in Athens. And I'd like to ask you to bring it bring it to conclusion. There may be some other people that would like to speak and I appreciate but I am going to I will finish.

Um, and I think I have a right to speak today. You uh said this was a session for public comment. Um, there is no need for you to alter the character and function of the neighborhoods as they are currently zoned by the proposed changes to the housing and the zoning code. Uh, other businesses are not allowed to move into R1 neighborhoods. There are subdivision rules in various parts of the city that do not permit multifamily residences or uh businesses and those deed restrictions control uh and cannot be adversely impacted by the zoning. Proposing the proposal to operate to open the city to recovery housing in R1 zones is detrimental to the community. It's detrimental to the residents which the city serves and it's also detrimental to the recovery community which wants to operate uh responsibly in the city of Athens.

Thank you. Thank you. I do have a question on Okay.

Yeah, I do have a follow on, you know, beyond all the castigation that M. Ruben gave to the city and his failure to do its work. Um there were a couple things that that you mentioned an that uh I think have relevance here and something that we probably want to dig into has to do with uh um you know what constitutes a business and what constitutes you know housing operating a business and like when when can you draw the distinction about a business not operating in a residential zone because we have lots of landlords who have LLC's that own homes that then rent to people and those LLC's are businesses and so we need to try to draw a distinction and if we can draw distinction to say when is something a business and when is something an LLC that operates a house. Um and and so because otherwise, you know, 80% of the housing in Athens in the zones that are that are currently uh have have rental housing could conceivably not be allowed if those are all considered businesses. So that's something we need to work through. I do have a question for Kelly. Um, is it typical for um, the certification process to look at the leases that a operator would have and say something along the lines of snow removal? Would you look at a lease and say, "Okay, operator, you need to do snow removal. You can't make the residents do snow removal." Because I'd say it's a mix with the way that landlords operate in the city right now. Some of them have in their lease that the resident is required to remove snow. Some of them do it for them.

So, I just want to be clear. So, if the operator owns the house, um, or are you asking about the lease the operator has with another person who owns that? I I'm sorry. Uh, with the tenant, because you said the tenant sign a lease with the with the operator, correct? So, no, they cannot require the residents um, shovel snow.

Okay. Um, just like if I went to rent an apartment, if my landlord told me I was required to shovel snow, I would not live there because frankly I can't shovel snow. Um, now they can have what's called a paid work agreement where they agree that they will pay fair market rate for a resident to do specific tasks, but that is separate from the lease agreement. Do you review those as part of the Okay, gotcha. Thank you. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Um, and I Are you going to quit at one? It's past one. It's past one sailed.

Yeah, that ship has sailed. We we we scheduled till 1:30, I think. At least that's what I have on my calendar. So, we're going to do a little bit more. I think I would like to ask people to focus on different issues if they're, you know, as opposed to repeat the a similar not that people have, but Okay. Yes. Well, I thought I came because I saw the mess that I was around. I could tell that it was a mess. But anyway, I have 10 years in planning commission. several decades in council and I started out in the um zoning appeals board and nobody's really addressed except an what the requirements are for us and you're going to use the zoning to cause these people to do things that maybe they won't do. I don't understand that. But anyway, we have some good examples. I'll leave I think even you were there Dan Annie Dan Andy but we did when we were doing VBOS's we said what's going on and the people came in and they were furious and we talked to them and we talked to them and we finally got it settled out some of them live on the east side and so um what we're talking about was um then Habcap sent a sent out instructions and said they were going to build the redo the the um motel. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as it seemed, but they but the neighbors 80% 90% agreed with it. So, and it's going to affect us because people who stayed in that hotel had actually broken in to my house across

the street, which I should talk about right now. We have housing costs and um I'm a landlord in addition to being retired and I will tell you that um I don't even know the names of the people. My husband goes to to the meetings with Lance, your guy. And so I don't even know what's going on in the house very much because I wanted to separate myself from the uh various political things I did in the olden days. Okay. So they talk about saving being good neighbors. Crowding is not going to make them good neighbors. You can make all the rules in the world, but who the heck is going to enforce them? And that's one of the things I wrote down. I have lots of sk things sketched out. How can you be a good neighbor when you have seven or eight people in a house? I used to go pick up my student um my son's friend Pete. We go to I take them to soccer practice and it was just a twoerson house and you know what's going on here? So um I think we have lots of examples where perhaps Mr. Um, Mr. uh,

Allan's good.

Allan Swank can get the people to talk and what they want. I'm not sure you can produce that, but it's all a zoning problem. All people think that their zoning is going to ex going to protect them. I don't think it will. And you can't offer individual solutions like, oh, what you need is a privacy fence. I tried that already. It didn't work. um with not with my neighbors but as a suggestion. What the hell was I doing talking to them about put up a privacy fence when they're sharing a driveway? Don't understand it. So, um I think there's a series of things that you have to do to listen to the neighbors in areas where they're going to come. And you know, it's all very loose. It all we talked about was recovery. I yay recovery. I'm for it. But at what expense? That's the question. What expense are we going to have? And the other expense that hasn't been mentioned is that students are living in Brierwood. They're held to the threeperson participant or residents and the neighbors keep tabs on them and they also help us. I don't live in Brierwood, but I know it's it's going on there. I'm trying to rush so everyone gets a chance to talk, but I think that we could possibly end up with a better neighborhood. Maybe not in this neighborhood. That one is a mess where you have that up the hill and all the rest of it. And I don't see that it's going to work with what you have. So, I'm going to abandon all of my things and say if we're holding students to three people per house, why are we giving these people a re right to bring more people in the it's there's

something wrong going on here. And you know, you may may feel the recovery is the most important thing in the world, but I think it's also nice to have the students around since there are not enough houses in the area. So they aren't they don't they don't always conform, but I think they're doing it. I think you also underestimate what's going on in the neighborhoods. And I'm going to close with this. In the neighborhood, my third ward, which is now Michael Woods ward, there are lots of people who have students living next door to them. Somehow they've managed to adjust to this and they've made them aware of the law of what the law says about the number of people allowed in the house, the number of spaces not parking overnight on the street, putting your garbage can in and out. All of these things that an was talking about that should have been self-evident to anybody who'd lived in a neighborhood before, in his own neighborhood. I mean, we we may just be tough-nosed about it, but who knows? I mean, come on. Let's consider asking the neighbors, finding out what they want. They don't want platitudes from us. I Everybody's okay with recovery. Yay, recovery. But at what expense? That's what we have to figure out. And I hope you can especially look at those pictures and be a little bit concerned about what you've done to this neighborhood across. It's also very isolated. And I read the report of your of your inspector and I said, "Oh my goodness, how could that have happened in Athens?" They didn't I get inspected every year. George will tell you he's been inspected. We're going to be inspected in a couple weeks. But why did these guys escape inspections? How did it happen?

Oh, well. Thank you, Miss Bane. Thank you, Miss Be. Is there you're it? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um, thank you everybody for your Oh, we have one more. At least one more. I got You didn't sign up. I didn't see the list. Okay, let me sign up. Please be cons concise here.

Well, I'm under the impression this is question and answer and I didn't find excuse me, I didn't find out about the meeting until yesterday because the last three were cancelled and I guess I wasn't anticipating the short notice on this meeting. But anyway, I have a few questions. I have a few statements and um for the questions, they may be for the lady um they may be for you folks, but I would like answers to the questions, not just listen to the questions. First of all, my focus is on R1. I I understand we've got all the all the different zones. I'm wanting to protect the R1 neighborhoods for single family residences, which is what we all bought, what we all enjoy. We've all learned to live with the students. We've It's works out well. the 317 board and um Halfcap and everybody is doing a fine job taking care of apparently the needs in our community with the folks that handle these things in our community. And I'm all for that and I'm sure everybody in this room is all for that. After listening to the lady's presentation, it sounds to me like we need a presentation from the Department of Behavioral Health to get the real facts and not a warm and fuzzy description of how things would

unfold if everything was um done by the book voluntarily and willingly as opposed to the situations. that we have found ourselves exposed to on 51 Madison and 34 Lraine. I'm going to jump around here a little bit because they're random thoughts. First of all, um I get in a communication that I did not read yesterday, I'm under the impression that somehow um as Miss Bane pointed out and as everybody knows, students are allowed to have three people unrelated in an R1 in Athens. Now, um I think I got the impression from a um verbally that you folks or somebody have done or are thinking about allowing the recovery housing folks to have four people in the house as opposed to three people in the house. And I would like clarification.

I I think that was I think that was discussed at one point. Um we we've not taken any action at this point. We've uh sought the help of uh Miss Elias uh with regard to what we can and can't do and what we should or shouldn't do. Was that an answer? I believe so. Yes. I um you know, we have done nothing at this point to change the zoning codes or to recommend the city council to change the zoning codes. Did you imply that that um Mr. Elias suggested or said that would be fine or legal?

No, I didn't imply that. I I said that we has we have sought her advice as to whether we should or shouldn't. Um she said she has not replied to me at this point. Yes,

I can expand on that. Okay. So, the the threshold of four people versus three was uh draft language only and it was a consideration based on uh restricting density. And there there was some case law that Miss Allison, I believe, uncovered that said if you're if a community is interested in restricting density, they had to make an allowance somewhere else that showed that uh people with disabilities were not treated differently. adding a density restriction to for housing for people with uh uh disabilities would be restrictive. However, the counter was considered and draft language to increase to four. But that's that that was the uh the result. Miss Elias's last conversation with me was that she recommends the city wait uh for an extended period of time uh before any considerations would be made for changing law

because of current case law that's running through the courts. So that's a gray area at this point in time. It leads to the question of if we allow these folks to have four rather than three, then is every landlord in town going to be able to put four people in their house so they are not being prejudiced against?

No, because there's that you're you're missing the density argument. the no landlords are restricted density-wise but uh um recovery houses it was considered that there would be a restriction for instance the density restriction on vape and tobacco shops exists and that's something that exists only for them and so it it was it was very specific about the the question of do we want to control density and what would we have to give up if we did so we may end up with four people in recovery housing and three people in student rentals. We we've not made that decision. We don't know.

That's what that is what we're currently considering. What what we're doing is as um I as Mr. Pile had indicated, we have talked with Lisa Elias. Lisa Elias said, "I wouldn't do anything right now." We're not doing anything right now.

Okay. All right. Now, in regards to one person somehow being um described as a couple or a couple is concerned is considered one person. And you're going to allow three or four people in these recovery homes. And you're going to say that a couple is one person. Theoretically, I understand. I think I understand that. Then you're going to end up with either possibly six people in one of these houses or eight people in one of these houses if the city continues to interpret the law the way they have in the past. Clarification. Mr. Stone,

you I mean I I can start and then I'll let Tom. So the

the zoning code now says R1's are designed for household units and then a household unit is defined as no more than three unrelated people. Um if you have 10 kids, they're related. You know, you got 12 people in the house. Um if you got two parents and 10 kids. So in in an R1 zone. Um historically we have considered married couples as one person for purposes of counting. Um to the point of a couple that is married or not married. That was one of the things that we discussed is like you know we're going down a slippery slope here. Um to say you know what's mar you know what's a what's related by family right? Is it is it married? Is it is it common law marriage? Is it is it domestic partner? Um there's domestic partner registry in the city you know. So we we really, you know, risked that specific problem when we were trying to interpret um this particular situation with unrelated people and couples. Go ahead, Tom.

Yeah, exactly. And the the at six um there there are state building standards that kick in if if there are people, you know, six and above

sprinklers and stuff like that. And so that's not a number that would be considered at all. Would it would definitely be under six. And uh and as director Stone indicated that that's exactly the discussion was nothing more than discussion. Uh my last communication with uh next level was uh if they were interested in in uh having residents they were limited to the rental permit number of three adult renters. Now, I I understand that you folks are considered about um liability issues by being prejudice or not offering everything to these folks that you offer to everybody else. But it seems that it should be an even playing field for the regular folks and the landlords as well as these recovery homes if they somehow show up here now a while back and twice and I gave a letter to to u Mr. Pile also. I presented it to you guys a list of questions or possibilities about minimal lot sizes. If you're going to allow a special exemption for four rather than three, then that special exemption of more people, this shared driveway thing is an issue I think that needs to come into play. And um the density thing needs to come into play. Now we're going to have people coming in here and I asked this question to Mr. Pile and I think I spoke but you guys never answered at a previous meeting here.

What seems to be from a logical layman's point of view, it seems to me it would be prudent upon the city of Athens since we are going to allow special privileges in one regard that we might require a little additional information about the situation that we're going to possibly open ourselves up to. In other words, these are my suggestions for you to think about, to consider, to be fair to all the existing citizens of Athens as well as anyone who might be coming on down in regards to these houses. Are we going to require an updated current list of occupants? and updated and kept current list of occupants. So the code office and the police department are aware of what type of characters we have in these homes because it's going to be a revolving door as it's already been described here. We need to know if these people have been sent down here court ordered. It's either that or jail. Are they on parole? Are they homeless? When I spoke with Mr. pile in his office a month or so back. I believe um he was under the impression at that time before he's meeting with the folks at um Ohio Recovery that these things are all a possibility that we would be unaware of these folks background who are going to be occupying our R1 districts where you could have anything from murderers

to pedophiles to shoplifterss. Um, let's face it, the folks that are in these particular situations, they're in their jam because they made bad decisions. And we all know the national failure rate for recovery is 70%. So people are going to come down here theoretically 70% of them are going to not complete the program. Then they're going to be in our community. Then they're going to be going to, like she said, our food banks and our churches and the folks that provide meals and stuff and taking up resources that the folks that give the money in our community, I think, expect it to go to the folks in our community. And although these are repercussions or side issues from the legal battle that you or the legal entanglement that we're in, I think those things need to be considered. Now, the the fact that the nice lady from Columbus here came down and gave us the the warm and fuzzy version of everything. And

you're talking about Kelly Man?

Yes. Excuse me, Kelly. Um, you know, she she says they're they're not they're they're not um they're not do doing any services there. It's it's merely a house. So, they're going through two or three or four steps to it would appear to skirt the issue of what they're really trying to do. you know, and the the problem is not the houses. The problem are the people who are in the houses. Whether it's student rentals, whether it's over at my house, whether it's in one of these recovery houses, it's the people that cause the problem. The building doesn't cause the problem. So I think we need to keep the number of people reasonable and I think the oversight needs to be um stronger so so that Mr. Pile and Mr. McGrder and any person in from the public who wants to come and find out who's living in that house just for uh safety purposes.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Staer. Okay, I'm assuming that we're done with any comments at this point. Anybody else? Okay, we Well, one sec. Let me let me try to finish up the rest of our agenda then. I appreciate it. So, um the the next item on our agenda then, and thank you everybody for your comments and um and points of view. I appreciate that. Um the next item on the agenda is reports. And so, uh Miss Jennings, do you have anything to report today?

Yeah, I'd like to update the planning commission and the public just on the progress that I've made with um setting up the update for the comprehensive plan. Um I do have just like a draft graphic just to kind of communicate some branding and imagery. Um over the next uh couple of months we are going to be diving into the public engagement portion of the comprehensive plan update. It's uh we have very extensive public engagement opportunities planned throughout excuse me throughout the summer and the fall. Um this is draft so it'll evolve over time but um over the next couple of weeks you will be seeing more announcements rolling out about these engagement opportunities. Um we will be sharing them on social media as well as posting flyers around town. Um we will also push out um press releases and announcements through the city's Nixl app. So please keep your eyes out for that if you would like to be engaged. Um the opportunities we will be hosting are a combination of public open houses. We will be having uh issuing a public survey. Um we will be meeting with stakeholders um and having topic specific public meetings with those stakeholders. Um I'll also be reaching out to each neighborhood and having targeted engagement opportunities um based on the neighborhoods themselves. Um, I'll also be reaching out to every city commission as well as every city department to meet with them to talk about their needs and goals for the next 20 plus years. Um, also want to mention um, council does have the comprehensive plan review advisory commission. Just want to report um throughout the fall and winter we received applications of those who are interested in serving on that and those have been um shared with council and so we will be working on forming that

commission together over the next uh coming of weeks or months. Um in general, you know, we'll be doing the public engagement heavily through the summer and in the fall. Um once we have collected all of our data in the winter, we will then report out on what we have heard and um bring the public into that conversation. Um after kind of getting some feedback in the spring of next year, we will then move into actually drafting the plan. And once that plan um is drafted, um we'll bring the public back to review the draft plan and make any amendments before final adoption. Um, now all of this work is being done by myself and two interns. So, we will work as hard as we can to maintain this schedule. Um, but it is a big uplifting and just three people. So, we appreciate your grace and understanding. Um, and the last thing that I want to mention is if anyone is an interested stakeholder, um, I would just ask that they email me. Um, we are looking for stakeholders related to the following topics individually. we kind of group them together to keep conversations concentrated. So the topics include um kind of our community culture and arts um scene, transportation, recreation, housing, economic development, and also environment and sustainability. So if you are an interested stakeholder, please send me an email and let me know how you'd like to be involved. Um but again, just keep an eye out as more um information about public engagement opportunities comes out over the next couple of weeks. Thank you.

Thank you. Um appreciate the effort you're going to put into all of this with your two uh interns. We're ambitious. Thank you very much. Um Mr. Pile, do you have anything to additional to report on today? I do not, Mr. Chair. Thank you, though. Thank you, Mr. Pile. Okay. So, the next item then on the agenda is the opportunity for citizens citizens to speak on items not covered by the agenda or on this agenda. So, thank you. You're welcome.

Hi, my name is Maryanne Hartwick. I live in the Wonder Hills subdivision, 26 Ball Drive, where I've lived for 27 years. I want to do a full disclosure. I don't own any property. I'm not a landlord at all. Um, but I am a concerned citizen and a neighbor in a subdivision which falls under your jur jurisdiction. Uh, even though I live outside of the city of Athens, I'm in that threemile extr territorial area. Um, I've come to talk to you about Avenel Crossing. Can I talk to you about Aanel Crossing? Go ahead.

Okay. So, we have a developer who wants to build a 60 unit lowincome housing uh in Valley View Estates at the at the end of Dona Road, which is a right ofway into a very small subdivision. Valley View is across the highway from us. And um I feel like it's disingenuous of the developer to do that there. It's like putting people who need the most city services as far away from the city services as possible. And so I was hoping that this commission could help us in saying that this can't continue or uh it can't start until a lot of questions are answered. The biggest question is these are people who maybe don't have access to their own vehicle, don't have access to paying $5, $6 a gallon for gas, and they need to uh use public transportation. And so there isn't a school bus that comes into this neighborhood because of how the neighborhood is laid out. And so all those children would have to walk down out of the neighborhood to catch a bus. And mom and dad, if they needed to go to the grocery store, they'd have to come walk down out of the neighborhood down Hooper Road to Route 50, a four-lane highway. The nearest Athens City Transit bus stop is on United Lane. And so they'd have to cross the highway as pedestrians just to catch a bus and then they'd have to spend 55 minutes on the bus to get over to Walmart to do their shopping or to go to a pharmacy or to go to a doctor's office or to go to social security or all the things that everybody needs. And so I I asked the commission to help us to prevent this from happening because uh it would fall under the subdivision regulations. They will have to alter that right-of-way road so that they can access Leak's

water so that they can access the city sewers and so all their com their equipment could come through to build this very large subdivision. Uh I am not opposed to lowincome housing. I think it's really important. I think everybody here is on that same page. Um, but it's not the right way to do it to say let's put these folks out in the woods and hope that they can fend for themselves. And so that's what I wanted to come here to say. I'd love to be on the agenda fully at some point.

Well, I think um I I think that obviously it's like you say the developments within the three mile uh radius of the city of Athens. Um and I so I believe that if um I mean the the project would come to uh to uh the code office and and if they felt that there was it was a major subdivision uh and it needed the uh input on of this uh body um and then ultimately city council I think or maybe city council is not involved. I think some people have been already involved and I just I just want it to happen before he breaks ground.

Right. I don't want that to happen and then we have to, you know, kind of backtrack and I and I I believe that um they don't that it hasn't been decided yet that they can that they would be a able to break ground. Is that fair assessment? Uh Mr. Per, do you know? I'm going to defer to the director. If he wants me to answer the question, I will answer the question. Oh boy. Oh boy. Yeah. I you know, I mean, it's the elephant in the room, right? So, we met with the developer um here recently and and and I mean to be brutally honest, the developer um that owns this property that's going to develop it argued against a a development in the city that had the services that you talked about not existing out there,

right? Um so, you know, that you know, a few months ago, right? And that ultimately didn't go forward. Um you know, so there's irony of ironies here and that's just that's that's really what it is. But um you know the developer sat down uh with us and there's a couple business partners and there's designers and they said, "Oh, we don't think it's a major subdivision and here's why." And we said, "We do think it's a major subdivision and here's why." Here's why.

And so they're going to go back and they're going to adjust their plans and come back to us again and uh we're going to look at it again and say whether or not we think it's a major subdivision. And if we think it's a major subdivision, we're going to say you have to go to the city planning commission. And if they then go n and they don't do it and they break ground on their own, then we have to decide as a county, you know, what we're going to do from a a recourse perspective, right? So, it's not just Athens city at that point, right?

You know, I mean, I don't know that the city can take action external the county. It's probably at that point goes to the county prosecutor or you I'd have to talk to the law director and find out if it was a, you know, how we would do from a prosecutorial perspective if somebody is breaking that provision in law. you know what where are the teeth if we decide that it's a major subdivision and the uh developer decides to you know thumb his nose and and and uh start construction. So that's ultimately where we are on it. Um I as of now as of what we've seen so far I think it's a major subdivision and it's going to have to come through a public pro process but conceivably they could change their plans and and make an argument for why they don't think it it is. Did I did I sum that up?

Yes sir. Yes, as the plans as we have seen them to date, we consider that a major subdivision would require them to go through planning commission, but they are interested in adopting their plans to to avoid that. Just as you said, could we uh members of the communities that this would really affect be at the next meeting where they come and tell you what they're going to do? You know, it's typically a back and forth between I mean, we it's not open public meetings, but um you I suppose we could work something out. I mean they they sat at the table and said we don't want to go before a public body and have a public meeting because we don't want people to come and tell us um and argue against us in development. I mean that's what they said. I know.

I have maps if anybody wants to see them on if you'd like walking across the highway. The plans are public documents right um that we have currently at the code office and certainly we can make them available for for folks to look at.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd like that because in in their um application to the H Ohio Housing Finance Administration to get money to do this um they talked about amenities, but they weren't talking about a grocery store, a pharmacy, a doctor's office. They weren't and they were talking about linear miles to different places, which is great if you're a crow, but it's not great if you're a person who doesn't have a car, right? I mean, we want people to be successful and to to have every opportunity, but this is just not the way to do it. So, I would love to be at any meeting where they are because maybe we could talk about it. It's every, you know, we're all just people and I'm number one on your sign-in list, so you have my email address. Thank you.

Thank you.

Very quick. Just as a followup to that, uh, and and Director Stone, you're you're absolutely right. That is a meeting where you're negotiating things. Technically, it's outside the city. Would it be appropriate for these individuals who have contacted me, had multiple conversations by phone with representatives of them for them to express their um concerns, questions, and all that to their elected city representatives would who in turn can share them with you and director Pile as um administrators of the city or would it be appropriate for them to gather that information to address to you as you sit down to future negotiations with this developer? Hey, help me Alan with the elected city representatives because you said it was outside the city.

It is outside the city, right? But at this point in time, no one from the county is sitting down with the developers. Uh the county planner is county. So it' be better for them to work through their elected representative being one of the county commissioners or township trustee or a township trustee. That would be the best way to go. Okay. So you could direct to them and then they in turn would share. Okay. What what is the uh incidentally? What is the township that that property Athens Township? Athens Township. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, just about 550.

Yeah, I know where it's at. I I do. I just am not sure where the the dotted lines are around the community. So, okay. Um any other any other uh any other uh speakers that would like to say something not related to what was on the agenda? No. Okay. With that, are there any announcements or other business? Anybody have? So with that, I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. So move it. Second. All in favor say I. I. Thank you.