Municipal Services Committee - Regular Meeting

The longer I'm on, the more I'm impressed by people like you that have been here so long. Because I kind of am starting to get lost on who's on what committee. It's only my fourth time around. It's like you see somebody and you associate them with that committee. Then it changes.

Yeah, I know what you mean. The two? Well, I assume he's taking them. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, the three.

I see what you're saying. Balance, yeah. Okay, are we all set? All right, 5.30, it is 5.30. Let's call to order this meeting of the Safety and Licensing Committee for Wednesday, May 27th. Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. All right, thank you. Roll call of membership tonight. I am Chris Crote, chair of the committee, representative from District 14.

To my left is... Denise Fenton, District 6.

Patrick Hayden, District 7. Josh Lambert, District 1. And Alder Jones is excused from tonight's meeting. So we do have four of five members present. We can conduct business, we have a quorum. Moving on to the next item as minutes from our previous meeting, which is 26-0710. Meeting was held on 5-13-26. Move to approve. Second. Motion and a second to approve the minutes. Are there any corrections or changes? Not hearing any. All those in favor of approving the minutes, signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposition? Any abstentions? Minutes are approved 4-0. Okay, takes us to public hearings or appearances. We have three scheduled appearances tonight. They are all demerit point violation appearances for establishments, starting with 26-0569 is the demerit point violation appearance for empty pockets. This is an after-hours failure to vacate violation that came with a 50-point demerit, and the establishment has 130 total. Is there a representative from empty pockets here tonight? Okay. If you could use the microphone at the podium, give your name and address for the record, please, and then just explain what happened and what you've done to correct it from happening again. That's what we do with these appearances. Thank you.

Brian Tomaszewski, 2906 East Newberry Street. As far as the situation, my bartenders do know that we need to close by 2.30 and stuff, so I had to address that with all of them. But the one thing that's unique about this situation is that the ticket was issued at 2.31 a.m., and I'd asked my bartenders that, or the bartender and then my other bartender was there just on our leisure. If the officer had come in prior to that, which would have made it before 2.30 to see that the two bartenders and then there was a gentleman that was packing up his stuff from playing darts and leaving and stuff. Like I said, they do know that everything's supposed to be gone at 2.30, but the officer would have had to have been in there prior to 2.30 in order to be able to issue a ticket at 2.31. OK.

Thank you. Any questions from committee members? No? OK. Anything from APD?

No?

Okay. All right. Thank you for coming. We appreciate it. Just for all three of these, I just want to state that the police department offers free training to ensure the establishment stays compliant. You are aware of the points system and where you're at with the total? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thanks again for coming. All right. Moving on to 26-0570, demerit point violation appearance for Cinder's Charcoal Grill. This was a dispensing alcohol to minors violation, 80 points, 80 points total for the establishment. Is there a representative from Cinder's Charcoal Grill here tonight? Same situation. Name and address for the record, please, and then explain what measures are being taken to prevent it from happening again.

All right. Adam Delfos, N207, Country Air Court, Appleton. To my knowledge, The bartender had a sting, and instead she checked the ID, but it was a minor ID, and it says under 21 until then, and she actually hasn't ever seen that ID. Nonetheless, she still looked at the wrong age or wrong area, and then, I mean, go from there. They leave, come back in, issue the ticket. After that, what we do, well, prior, we always, Check IDs, if they look like your grandparent or older, don't, anyone under, check them. Run around every day we have a meeting, check IDs, check IDs, check IDs. So I mean, she did and just looked at the wrong area. So now we have sheets with that circled and then the real ID circled, what to look for, what not to look for. So and so.

Okay. Thank you. Questions from committee members? Not seeing any. So these are often opportunities to conduct, to refresh staff and conduct training measures. It sounds like that's what's happened in this case. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for coming. We appreciate it. All right, moving on to 26-0571 is a demerit point violation appearance for Holiday's Pub and Grill. This was also dispensing to minor, 80 point violation, 80 points total for the establishment. Is there a representative from Holiday's Pub and Grill here?

Hello and welcome. My name's Franklin, address 3950 North Richmond Street. Dispensing to a minor happened on April 7th. We've taken four steps to rectify this. Step one, we have terminated the employee based on obviously violating the law, but also violating company policy. something that they signed when they were hired. Second thing we did was we posted signs on both sides of our bar stating such thing as not dispensing alcohol to minors. Third thing we did was recently we had to renew our liquor license and so we in that process ensure that all our bartenders are up to speed with their licensing. So those are three of the four steps. The fourth step was we had a meeting about it, obviously, right after it happened.

Good. Thank you for outlining that. Any questions from committee members? No? Okay. Thank you very much for coming. We appreciate it. All right, that takes care of the scheduled appearances. We will move into our action items and take them in order, at least for now. 26-0641 is the operator license for Tammy T. Taylor. This was at the last committee meeting, and we held it after making a motion to deny the license. It was held at committee so that the attorney's office, Attorney Berwin, could do a review of what was presented to us for expungement. I'll turn it over to Attorney Berwin for the memo that was crafted on the 22nd of this month. Attorney Berwin, you're for. I had that. Okay, go ahead.

Thank you. I will keep it relatively brief since the memorandum pretty succinctly sums up my thoughts on what I found. The short version is that there isn't very clear authority on how expunged convictions should be handled in this situation. I think there's countervailing... there's authorities intention with each other. I'm not going to go through that in great detail, but ultimately what it boils down to is my recommendation that, um, it's not clear that on the record, the applicant would be statutorily ineligible. Uh, So based on that, it is my recommendation that the council not consider the expunged conviction and that it vote accordingly, which I think, based on the remaining record, she would be statutorily eligible and should be granted the license. I should note that if there is new authority or additional information that comes from the state and it becomes clear that the license that would be granted in that situation is granted counter to the law, the granting of the license would not override that. I'm not saying that that's going to happen. I'm not saying that we know that that would happen. I just want it to be clear that if that does happen, this doesn't provide any additional cover. The license that we give would be void if it's given in violation of the law. But I think from what I can tell here today, it's not clear that she's an eligible. So the license should be granted.

Okay. Thank you. And thank you for the last part of the memo there. Tammy Taylor, are you here tonight? Okay. Would you like to address the committee? Okay. He explained his memo, which basically allows us to approve your license based on his review of expungement. OK.

I just did want to let you guys know that I do have a current bartending license in Chi-Octon, Wisconsin. And I am a RN as well. So this has not stopped me from getting other licenses, is what I'm saying.

All right. Anything else?

And I do have a paper here that does say the expungement, but he's already verified that, so. I have not verified that. Oh, can I show you this then? Can I give this to you?

Do you need to keep a copy of that? I already have a copy. Okay. Yeah, you can give it to the clerk, and she'll get it to the attorney's office, and if it needs to be part of the record, we'll include it as part of the record.

That would be really great.

Yep, thank you. Okay, thanks for coming, and yeah, so we held this for that specific reason of having the review conducted. I'll bring it back to committee. Committee, first let's get a motion on the table, if we could.

I would move to approve the licensure.

Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second to approve the operator's license for Tammy T. Taylor. Are there any questions for Ms. Taylor? Okay, you can take a seat, thank you. Okay, Alder Fenton, go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to thank the attorney and the attorney's office for going to, for the memo, and because I think we all felt at the last meeting that it was unclear, and I personally would have been uncomfortable denying the license, and I feel better about it now that we have the research to support it. Thank you.

Yep, and I concur. I'm glad we held it, and I'm glad we took the time to conduct the review. Are there any other comments or questions from anyone else present? Not seeing any hands. Okay, let's vote on the operator license approval for Tammy Taylor. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? All right, 4-0. So a 4-0 recommendation from this committee to the full City Council a week from tonight, if I'm right on that, at 7 o'clock in this room. If you want to address the full Council, come a little bit early. There's a sign-up sheet in the back of the room. You don't have to speak. It is going as a 4-0 recommendation. Some of us may choose to speak as to why we're doing that, but you're welcome to come and welcome to speak. Okay, thank you. All right, moving on to 26-0699 is the operator license for Victoria P. Singleton. Victoria Singleton, are you here tonight? Okay, would you like to address the committee? Name and address for the record, please.

Victoria Singleton, 3013 Chain Drive, Monashville, Wisconsin, 54952. I just want to go and say I have obtained an Appleton area bartending license before, and it was denied for a felony. That happened in 2003, but I have held an Appleton bartending license, a Menasha bartending license since 2020, and I have suddenly got denied, and I don't understand why now.

Okay, and we can get a little bit more information for you from the attorney's office on this. There was a memo from the Ableton Police Department, Lieutenant Gooden. There's three things in our packet. There's the memo from the police department, the clerk, and then your redacted application. So at this point, I will have Attorney Berwin outline our options as a committee and as it relates to the memo from the police department.

Thank you. Unfortunately I did not get a chance to prepare a memo like I like to do in these situations. Um, I cannot speak to license granted by other jurisdictions. I can't even really speak to necessarily licenses that were reviewed in prior years. What I can look at is the information we have based on what Lieutenant Gooden has provided.

Um, make sure I've got the correct information here.

Um, Lieutenant Gooden's recommending denial based off of a conviction for a Class A misdemeanor, specifically battery. That is one of the categories of exempt offenses. As detailed, I'm sure, has been repeated ad nauseum in the memorandums that I filed on the subject. But under 125-04-5A1, licenses or the applicant would not be eligible for a license based on that conviction record. Um, and because it's an exempt defense, there would not be the opportunity to demonstrate rehabilitation as there would be in most types of offenses. Um, but this is a chapter nine 40 offense, which is an offense against bodily security. Um, basically, uh, battery and similar types of offenses, violent offenses, things along those lines. Um, the potential piece of evaluation would have to do with, um, evaluating a substantial relationship. We're not under as a municipality under any obligation to provide written documentation of that, which is why Lieutenant Gooden doesn't have anything in there. But I think, There is a strong basis to conclude that battery offenses taken in the context of commercial distribution of alcohol, especially with the public order aspects that that entails, there is a substantial relationship between that offense and that licensed activity. As I've mentioned before, this isn't a question of whether or not she has the ability to do the job. This is a question of whether or not there's a substantial relationship between the two and largely whether it provides the opportunity for that type of criminal behavior or similar criminal behavior. And under the circumstances, there is at least a basis to conclude that there is, and based on what we have before us, Lieutenant Gooden has concluded that she's not eligible, and I see no basis to contradict that.

Okay. Thank you, Attorney Berwyn. Does that help answer the question that you had?

No, so for this 20 years ago thing that had happened, I have held an Appleton bartending license since then. So why is it denied all of a sudden now? Because there's a different lieutenant?

We can't talk to the history of license approvals. All we have before us tonight is what you're asking, what your application, your application and the documentation.

I have already held one, so that's why I don't understand why.

Yep, I understand what you're saying. This is one of those situations where we, as a committee, don't have a lot of options. The guidance from legal and the state statutes basically don't allow us to do anything except for deny your license application. Am I correct in that, Attorney Berwin? Is that true in this case?

Effectively, yes. The requirement is that if the applicant is eligible, they're required to be granted the license, and if they're not eligible, they cannot be granted the license.

And in your opinion, not eligible, cast appointed?

Correct, Chair.

Okay. Attorney Alder Lambrick. Apologies, Chair. Thank you.

Can I just get a point of clarification? There's a modifier of party to the crime on the conviction, and I'm just curious, can you help me understand how that modifier, what that means?

Certainly. I'll state up front that it doesn't change any of the evaluation of what we're dealing with here tonight. The conviction in all respects is identical to if that modifier were not a piece of it. But To more directly answer the question, party to a crime means that the person participated in the commission of the crime either by directly committing it, aiding, abetting, or somehow contributing to the commission of that crime. It is a modifier in the Wisconsin criminal statutes. It is not a requirement to be included as a modifier, even when that is the theory of guilt. But it also does not preclude the direct participation of that individual. And I'm not saying that that's happened in this case. I don't know that I have the specifics in front of me here as to what happened. But it could be either direct participation or indirect participation, aiding, abetting type of participation.

But that doesn't change the way we can evaluate that?

Okay, let's get a motion on the table before we have any more questions or comments, please.

Move to deny.

Second. We have a motion. Is it second, Alder Hayden? Yes. Okay. Motion by Alder Fenton, second by Alder Hayden to deny the license application, operator license application. Any other comments or questions from committee members or Alders present?

Alder Lambert, go ahead. I would just say that while I don't know what the evaluation understand that our hands are fairly tied with regards to what the statutes are, and so that's my understanding.

Very limited in options. Attorney Berwin, go ahead.

Just want to add one thing, and this applies to a number of folks potentially here tonight, but I want to make it clear that this does not preclude the ability to work as a bartender. It just means that there would need to be appropriate supervision for it. So I just want to be absolutely clear about that, what the license does permit and what it does not permit, and what the denial doesn't prohibit either.

Good point. Thank you. Any other comments or questions from committee members? Any final comments? No. Okay. All right. You may be seated. All right. If there's no other comments or questions, we'll take a vote. All those in favor of denying the operator license for Victoria Singleton, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? All right. 4-0. Recommended for denial. That will go to the full city council. Same situation a week from tonight, seven o'clock. If you would like to address the council, you will need to sign up ahead of time and speak during public participation. The mayor will call you if you sign up and you will be able to make your comments on your license application. All right, moving on to 26-0700, operator license for Chelsea M. Straw. The recommendation from the APD is to deny the license application. Attorney Berwin, similar situation, different options for committee, please.

it is similar in this one. There is a memo prepared in, uh, it was my conclusion that based on the information that the applicant is not eligible, there are two convictions, uh, one of which is an exempt defense, which again puts us in the same or similar situation with regard to that. Um, I did note a, I have a graphical error in my memorandum that I think is substantive here, but it's specifically on the applicability section.

Is that towards the bottom of the memo?

Yes. Uh, third page, which paragraph, um, does a person engaged in the license activity has elevated responsibility to, and then it just ends. Um, I'm not sure how that snuck by me, but, um, they've elevated responsibility to conduct business in a way that's consistent with public order, which often involves dealing with disruptive, disagreeable and disinhibited patrons that would directly and substantially relate to the violent conduct contributing, uh, constituting the offensive battery. So it's another battery. Um, in this particular case is the exempt defense. Um, so for much the same reasons, uh, there's also a felony offense, which if that one by itself were at issue, there would potentially be the ability to demonstrate rehabilitation, but the battery conviction does not allow that kind of makes it mood on the other one. So, um, you can answer any additional questions, but that's the basis for the conclusion that the license is not, um, something that she's eligible for, unfortunately.

Okay. Thank you. Um, Chelsea straw are here. You here. Okay. Name and address for the record, please.

drought, 1818 South Sanders Street in Appleton. I work in a gas station. That was in 2014. I have been out of trouble since. I am a mother. Haven't done anything since that conviction, just trying to be a good mom to my kids and make an income.

Okay, thank you. We appreciate you coming. We appreciate your comments. However, I hope you were able to understand the position that we're in and our options are very, very limited. If you read the conclusion part of the attorney's memo, it basically says that you're ineligible to get a license and that we would be, We cannot lawfully grant your license based on statutes. So our hands are tied and our options are very limited.

Okay.

Anything else you want to add? Nope. Okay. All right. You can be seated. Committee members, we need a motion on this operator license. Move to deny. Is there a second? Second. Okay. A motion by Alder Hayden, second by Alder Fenton to deny the license for Chelsea Straw. Any comments or questions? All right, not seeing any. All those in favor of denial of the license application, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions? All right, 4-0. Same situation. If you want to address the full City Council next Wednesday night at 7 o'clock, come a little bit early. There's a sign-up sheet in the back. You will get the opportunity during public participation to make your comments. It is going as a 4-0 vote to deny your license application. You don't have to speak, but you're welcome to come and speak. Thanks for coming tonight. All right, moving on to 26-0702, commercial solicitation license for Jacqueline Logier, Jay Logier. The recommendation from staff is to deny the commercial solicitation license. Is there, who wants to take this from staff, the staff perspective?

I can address it.

Okay. Go ahead, Attorney Berwin.

So I want to start out by noting that this is subject to a different set of eligibility criteria than what we've been dealing with on these alcohol licensing matters. And that is set forth in Lieutenant Gooden's memo and it really comes down to a safety assessment by the police department, the designee of the chief of police. So it's not a grant if eligible type of licenses would be for the operator's license. Based on the information available, the denial of the license would be lawful. It would not be unlawful discrimination. It would be permitted. based on the discretion of the committee and the council here. Because this is a little less cookie cutter, I do want to provide a little bit more information here, providing some context here. The convictions noted by Lieutenant Gooden, they are theft and burglary convictions. They stem from an incident where, according to the criminal complaint at least, the applicant and some other individuals sought out one or more unattended residences for the purposes of making unlawful entry and thieving. The nature of the conduct, the license applied for, they leave the recommendation and the potential decision of the committee and council to deny such an application or such a license, they leave it rooted in, pretty strongly rooted in necessity for the protection of the public good, and that is essentially the category or the criteria by which this is being evaluated. So this is a discretionary decision. The recommendation by the police department is, I think, well-founded based on the facts.

Thank you for that. So the committee does have options here, although I would say pretty strong statement from the attorney's office and from the Appleton Police Department to deny this application. Jacqueline Lozier, are you here tonight? No one in the audience to speak on this? Okay. Let's get a motion on the table, committee members. Move to deny. Motion. Second. Motion by Elder Fenton to deny, second by Lambrick. Questions, comments?

everyone clear on their options I do have a question which in reviewing the application for commercial solicitation there's no opportunity to disclose a past offense or at least not one that I see on the amended version if that is if If we are looking at a potential criminal history, is that an opportunity for us to maybe make an improvement on the application itself so that a person might have the option to self-acknowledge if there are things on the criminal background? This is maybe outside of the purpose of what we're talking about right here, which is maybe why we can have that conversation in the future.

I'll allow it if you're referring to the application in this case, which is a one-page application in our packet that does not appear to have any questions on it regarding your point. Attorney Berwin, you want to comment on that at all?

I can comment on it. I don't think there's ever a problem with getting more information about something like this. there's still the opportunity to address it through this process right here. This is a much more discretionary type of evaluation than the statutes allow us in other areas. So there's the potential for some of that discussion and disclosure, but I don't know that it necessarily, and clerk monitor could probably speak to this a little bit if she wanted to. I don't know how much it would add since we're pulling that information The police department is able to obtain that information anyway. But I don't know that it would hurt to ask either.

Okay. And I think we shouldn't stray too far from the action item in front of us tonight. Comments made about the application are valid. Alder Hartzheim, did you have your hand up? 13. There you go.

Thank you, Chair. This may be string, but a quick comment. The commercial solicitation license application, I believe, is a Health Department, City of Appleton Health Department form, so that could be addressed directly with them, but the licensure for bartenders, et cetera, is a state license application, I believe, is that correct?

Clerk, my honor, which number are you? I'm going to take that.

Okay. Actually, commercial solicitation is with the clerk's office, and operator bartender licenses are licensed within the municipality. However, there is a permit that the state does as well. There is a statewide one that can be used anywhere within the state of Wisconsin, but we do still license individually in municipalities as well.

Thank you for that clarification. For clarifying. OK. Any other questions or comments? We have a motion and a second to deny the commercial solicitation license for Jacqueline Logier.

I think... Go ahead. Just because we have more latitude here, I think the reason why I'm going to be voting to deny is the timing, right? The very recency, recent... recentness of some of the convictions and the fact that they are very closely aligned with the type of work that would be doing. So I think that's an important thing to point out as well. Good. Thank you. Any other comments or questions?

Not seeing any. Okay. All those in favor of denying the license application, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions? 4-0. Okay, that'll go as a recommendation to full city council. Okay, I'm gonna skip down a little bit here and take up, I'm gonna skip these standard applications and go to the 26-0692 is the WI-TF1 contract renewal. It is related to emergency management. Chief Hanson, are you taking this? Okay. Okay.

Thank you, chair. This is a renewal request for our Wisconsin task force contract. We've been part of the Wisconsin task force since 2006. We currently have 12 members on that state team with the hope of getting up to 18. This asset provides ropes, confined space, trench rescue, large area search, collapse rescue, and swift water rescue for the state of Wisconsin and literally across the nation. Our members have been deployed to hurricanes Ima and Helena. We've had flooding in southwest Wisconsin, just recently in Portage County, and we also responded to the flooding in Texas last summer. Regarding building collapses, a few years back we had a factory explode, the Didion factory explosion that we sent members to. So the Appleton Fire Department is very engaged in this team, and we'd like to continue the contract that is before you. There's just some minor changes to it. They added some minimum hiring standards, which they didn't have in there before. They relied mostly on the participating agency, City of Appleton, to determine the hiring requirements, but they felt the need to add some in. On page five, they put in some training expectations, which really don't affect our members because they attend all the training. But it's a way to cycle out some individuals on the team, the 160 person team that might not be meeting expectations. And then they did increase the reimbursement from $55 an hour to $60 an hour and added a cost of living increase the first of every July. So that's new in the contract. The current rate that we receive in reimbursement is four years old.

there's been some increases in four years and this should take care of it into into the future so okay thank you any questions from committee members to your agreement right correct okay no questions all right is there a motion to approve motion a second to approve the w i t f one contract all those in favor signify by saying aye aye all opposed any abstentions All right, 4-0 to approve. Moving on to 26-0693, which is the Request to Apply for Assistance to Firefighters grant. I'll turn this over to Chief Hansen. This is a large grant with a 10% match, it looks like, about.

Correct.

I did find one issue on the form. Let me get to it here. The finance director is corrected at the top, but then there's a former finance director's name at the bottom, if I remember right. Let me get to it here. If you look at the application, part one lists Jennifer Messerschmitt, and then part two lists Tony Saucerman. So you may want to update that. Minor, go ahead, Chief Hanson.

That is an internal document, so it doesn't go anywhere. Okay. But I will take a look at that and see if we can get that updated. So yes, asking for approval to apply for assistance to firefighter grant. Appleton Fire Department has been very successful with the AFG grants. In the past, we've brought in over $2 million in recent years. The largest part was 1.8 million to replace our portable radios. And we brought in additional funding to send up to six people to paramedic school. That was also very successful. We have been unsuccessful in one attempt or two attempts to get cardiac monitors, which we eventually just purchased through the capital project. And last year, I can't really say we were successful or unsuccessful. I know we didn't get funding last year, but we never got any notification at all. But there was a lot of flux with FEMA grants last year. This grant typically opens up in December. It just opened last week. So again, there's flux with the federal funding and the current administration and how it's rolled out. But the timeline is pretty quick turnaround. It needs to be submitted by June 22nd. We are asking for $770,000 to replace our self-contained breathing apparatus. That will get us... 63 SCBAs, 126 bottles, 93 individual face pieces, batteries, the chargers for them, and then firefighter rescue packs as well. Our technology that we currently have is pretty much obsolete. It's going on 15 years in 2027. After 10 years, it's considered obsolete. So next year in 2027, our PACs literally expire. We have to replace them. And our match is about $70,000 if we're awarded this grant. If we're not awarded this grant, we'll be putting in a budget request for 2027 for the total package price of 1.2 million. That will get us all of these SCBAs plus what we call hip airs or SCBAs that go on your hip for confined spaces and then replacement of our 20-year-old air compressors that fill these SCBAs.

Okay, thank you. Hopefully we get it. So this action is simply to apply for the grant. The local match just comes out of your budget if you have to fund that part of it?

Correct. And there is a two-year performance period. So if we are awarded the grant, we have two years to spend the money, which we can ask for the funds in a capital budget to cover that 10% match.

Okay. Let's get a motion on the table on 26-0693. 26-0693. Motion and a second to approve. Questions, comments?

Alder Hayden. Just one quick question. What happens to the expired equipment?

It is actually provided to the vendor. They'll take it in trade, and then they'll sell parts and pieces. But the irony behind that is one of the reasons we have to change it is we can't buy parts for it anymore. So we're looking for somebody that awarded a grant or bought SCBAs, and you'll see them put their Firehawk SCBAs up for sale for like $200 for an entire $15,000 pack, and we'll buy one and just part it out. So that's what will happen with it.

And is that included in the estimates that you kind of threw out there, or is that something that has to be put together later?

What part?

Well, when you're talking about you give it back to the vendor, I'm assuming it's not free of charge. They're giving you some compensation in return. There could be trade value, yes.

Okay. Other questions, comments? Not seeing any. Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favor of applying for the grant, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions? All right, 4-0. Moving on to request to apply, I think it's supposed to say for WE Energies grant. Is there a motion? Move to approve.

Second.

Motion and a second to approve. Chief Hanson, are you going to take this for Deputy Chief Weyers?

Yes.

Okay.

It's the season of grants. Yeah, this is a much smaller grant every 3 years you're eligible for we energies grant for and they fund just about anything that related to public safety though 3 years ago we received a $2,000 grant to do interosseous IV drills where you drove up needles into bones. And this year we're going to be looking at staying with that same theme a little bit but we're going to be looking at a Milwaukee tool set that we need for extrication and other various needs. So we're asking for 2,000, which is the maximum, and we would have to pay another $248 to purchase the equipment then. 248 or 284? 248.

The memo or the grant tracking form says 284, just as an FYI.

All right, I'll take a look at that.

It's okay. It's a smaller grant, but they all help, right?

Yeah, for sure.

Okay, any questions or comments from committee members? Not seeing any. All those in favor of approving the application for the WE Energies grant, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions? 4-0, okay. That takes care of a lot of the action items, but there are a number of them remaining.

Move to approve the balance of the agenda.

All right. A motion and a second to approve the balance of the agenda, which I will read the numbers. It's license applications, it's temporary premise amendment applications, a number of different kind of standard applications that come on our agenda. 26-0701, 26-0679, 26-0680, 26-0681, 26-0686, 26-0687, 26-0688, 26-0689, 26-0690, 26-0691, 26-0697, 26-0698, 26-0682, which is late alcohol license renewal applications, 26-0685, which is late cigarette, tobacco, and vaping license, and that is the extent of them. Are there any of those that anyone would like a separate vote on? Okay, not seeing any. We have a motion and a second on all of those. Comments, questions on anything? Nobody raising their hand. Okay. All those in favor of approving the balance of the agenda, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions? All right. 4-0. Balance of the agenda on the action items is taken care of. That takes us to information items. First on the list is an update, or actually not an update, just a discussion. 26-0683, it's the Appleton Area School District Truancy Ordinance Discussion. I put this on the agenda because I wanted to have another opportunity to discuss this in an open forum ask questions get some answers if there's anything that was a follow-up item from the previous meeting there are multiple representatives from the school district here that are going to speak committee members are free to discuss this the intent is that It's information tonight. It will be an action item on June 10th on our agenda. We may or may not take action that night, but we do have a scenario where the ordinance, a temporary ordinance, is in effect until June 30th. Correct, Attorney Berwin? Do you want to say anything related to that?

I could probably take the opportunity to review that. the memorandum that I prepared at the Chair's request that deals with that. Chair's correct, June 30th, the ordinance would cease to be effective if nothing else is done. As far as options, that is one option is to take no action with regard to it. Second option is to repeal the effective dates, which would make it effectively a permanent portion of the city's code until something was changed. Option three would be to amend the effective dates to effectively to extend it, but leave some expiration or sunset date in place. Option four would be to. amend it substantively in some other way, shape, or form, and that could be combined with either of the previous two options. And then less substantively, the committee could also look to review or amend the purpose section set forth in subsection A. It's not a mechanism of enforcement, but it does provide an opportunity, a desire to clarify expectations and what the committee wishes and the council wishes to see going forward, understanding that it's not judicially enforceable. It's merely a political enforcement opportunity.

Okay. Thank you very much for both memos. There's a second memo titled Implementation. Do you want to comment on that? I really appreciate the sunset options because when this does come back before the committee on June 10th, the options will be clear and hopefully the committee members will have ample time to gather all the data that they need to make a decision.

Absolutely, and I can address that second memorandum. It is more lengthy, so I'm not going to go through it in great detail, but I wanted to take the opportunity to make sure that there was some clarity on certain aspects and certain terminology, frankly, that was being used that could potentially be of importance. So, That was one portion of the purpose here, is to clarify some of those terms and legal principles. The other portion was to provide some practical information on how it has actually worked, how it has functioned in terms of how it's interacting with the judicial system here. So there's some information about the roles of the courts, the city attorney's office, the police department, a SD and then obviously the council's familiar with its role as the legislative apparatus from the city, um, did make sure to clarify, um, terminologies such as the reference to criminal law and criminal courts, um, expungement, which we've heard a little bit about already today. I wanted to clarify that since it's entirely inapplicable to any of what we're talking about here. Um, the references to hold open dispositions or hold open agreements or things like that. The other portions that I wanted to make sure that I went out of my way to address had to do with how the cases came into the circuit court. The short version of it is that basically everything comes in through the court commissioner with exceptionally rare exception. And that's from parking tickets to homicides. It all comes through the court commissioner no matter what it is. Court commissioners have similar abilities to judges. They don't have the same overall abilities as judges. But they allow things to basically be dealt with when there's no controversies or disputes without taking up the judicial resources in terms of having things go to judges when they don't need to. Consistent with how truancy matters are handled by other municipalities that utilize the circuit court, frankly, most of them never go up to circuit court judges. They are essentially at the court commissioner stage given the opportunity to demonstrate improvements in their attendance, maybe provide some information regarding their effort in terms of academics, not necessarily specific expectations of grades, but to show that they're showing up and putting in the effort. And the vast majority of the time and every time I'm familiar with, if that is shown, the citation is dismissed. There's no finding of guilt. There's no penalties imposed. And the only time it would go up is if they don't put in any recognizable effort or if they just want to argue that they weren't truant to begin with, in which case that's what the court trial process is for. There were, and I can't go into real great detail with it because it just hasn't been enough of a volume of cases to get into without crossing confidentiality lines, but I can say that in terms of the way they've come into the court and the way they've been handled by the court, it's been in keeping with my expectations. There were not any... I'm not sure where the idea came that it would be potentially something that would be handled directly by judges or... where there was any reference to specialized training for any of the judicial officials that would be handling it. So I can't speak to that. There was a little bit of a discussion in terms of timetables in order to be effective and deal with cases individually. Sometimes the timetable for how soon a case is a review hearing is scheduled just in the normal course of how the court commissioners schedule does not make sense for maybe juveniles in general, or maybe a specific juvenile in a specific set of circumstances. So that's something that's always actively being looked at and taken at a kind of case by case basis to make sure that the overall goals of improving attendance without, without being heavy handed is achieved. and giving them a chance to succeed.

Anything else? Apologies. That's okay.

So I will say that in terms of the expectations, they've been pretty in keeping. With what I've seen, I've not had too many cases even be brought to my attention for possible citations beyond a few. And those have gone into court and been handled pretty much as would be expected to the extent the circumstances allowed. I will say that I'm ready to answer any questions that I can in terms of the court process, the implementation, those aspects of things. And regardless of what the committee and the council end up deciding, the city attorney's office will make sure that whatever the existing code of the city of Appleton is, it's applied and enforced and is fair and consistent and just way as possible. Having said that, I want to be abundantly clear. My purpose in providing this information is to provide information. It's not to advocate for a position. The city attorney's office does not take a position on what should be done. This is a policy decision for the committee and the council, and I'm not advocating for a position either. I just thought there was some information that would be of benefit as the discussions go forward. And if I can add to that going forward, I'm more than happy to do so. With that, that's all I have.

Okay, thank you very much and appreciate the sharing of information. That's the whole goal with putting in this on tonight's agenda is to have some additional dialogue and discussion. get, like I said earlier, get questions answered, make some comments, and hopefully be prepared for some level of action in June. Members of the school district, if you want to speak one at a time, use the microphone. You're welcome to sit in the front if you want. Name, please. I think we all know who you are, but... Hi. Go ahead.

Stephanie Marta, Attendance Coordinator and Social Worker for the School District. Thank you all again for the opportunity to allow us to provide another update on the Appleton Area School District's ongoing efforts related to student attendance. Tonight is graduation night for the Appleton Area School District, so Superintendent is at Appleton East graduation this evening, so... I think you'll just have me tonight to share some information unless questions come up that the rest of our team members can answer. So over the past year, our district has continued to focus on a balanced approach that emphasizes prevention, intervention, family engagement, and accountability. Tonight I wanted to provide an overview of the resolution items connected to the truancy ordinance to provide some clarification and information around the policies, supports, procedures, and data that guide our work to improve student attendance outcomes across the district. So I am gonna go through each of the resolution items and briefly just describe what has been completed by the school district. So the first one is develop and enforce a policy of internal supports and tools which will be uniformly applied to all students with truancy and chronic absenteeism issues. So the Appleton Area School District uses a tiered approach to address attendance concerns at all grade levels. This information was previously shared with both this committee and the full Common Council last year. It was that flow chart that we, that very detailed flow chart that we provided to you. Last fall, our Board of Education attendance policy was revised to clarify the process that the district follows when considering a truancy citation. And earlier this month, we also completed a comprehensive revision of the attendance policy in its entirety. The next resolution item is to ensure that said policy will include enforcement of this truancy ordinance to be used as a final measure should other supports be unsuccessful with a student. So the Board of Education policy clearly outlines the conditions that must be met before a truancy citation may be considered by us in our school district. So these include that the student has met the legal definition of truancy, which is five or more unexcused absence in a absences in a semester, all are part of a school day. The student is chronically absent from school, which means the student has missed 10% or more of school days, either excused or unexcused. Multiple family contacts have been attempted and documented. Intervention efforts have not improved attendance, or the student is unwilling to participate in interventions. The student is not on pace to graduate due to absences, and the student is failing one or more courses. In addition, the district has established a procedural checklist that must be completed and submitted to the school resource officer when a truancy citation is being considered. This checklist documents student and family contacts, interventions offered and attempted, academic information and attendance data. It should be noted, as Attorney Berwyn's memo indicated, that the school resource officer makes the final decision on whether or not to issue a citation. The next resolution item is to provide evidence of the supports that the district has offered to students with attendance issues before any court dispositions for truancy are levied upon a student. So these include or are not limited to, the first one is number of truancy citations issued in the past semester. As we shared at the last couple of committee meetings, only one truancy citation has been issued during the 25-26 school year, and we're not looking at issuing any further citations next week being the last week of school. The next one is the number of truancy citations from prior semesters eventually expunged due to student compliance. This is none, and Attorney Berwin already clarified this information about expungements. Number of truancy citation convictions from previous semesters, including the dispositions that were applied, none. Updated absentee and truancy rate numbers for the previous semester. So semester one chronic absenteeism and habitual truancy data for the 25-26 school year were provided to the committee on January 28th. In addition, quarter three chronic absenteeism and habitual truancy data were shared with the committee on May 13th. The next one is data should be provided in alignment with DPI reporting. For example, grade level, school, race, ethnicity, gender, disability status, economic status, and EL status. So this information was shared with the committee on March 25th and will be updated again in June. And the information will be provided on June 17th to the full city council. That's because we have to wait for full school year attendance to be available. Due to confidentiality requirements, demographic data cannot be publicly shared if the population size is too small, and we've shared that information in prior meetings. The next one is track the counseling, supervised work program, and community service organizations utilized by students and compile a list of average costs. This is not applicable at this time as no students have been ordered to participate in these services and no related costs have been incurred. Provide evidence of policy and applicable data per the recommendations of the 2018 truancy court report, including but not limited to orientation and guidance for judges involved in truancy matters, including suggestions for a reasonable number of community service hours and education programs, not including summer schools. So as Attorney Berwin mentioned, this is not applicable at this time as no judges are currently hearing truancy cases. Any student receiving a truancy citation would proceed through the court commissioner process. The next one is maintain a community truancy task force, which works collaboratively to meet the interests of the district, the courts, families, and students, and reports to the school board. So an attendance improvement work group is currently being established. A timeline for the start of this work group was not included in the resolution. The first meeting is scheduled for September 30th. and the group will meet seven times throughout the school year. We wanted to ensure a broad representation, including school staff, community members, parents and guardians, and students. We also wanted to provide meeting dates well in advance so participants could commit to attending consistently throughout the year. An open invitation to participate was shared with AASD families in the broader community last Friday. The next one is continue to survey comparable school districts in Wisconsin to improve internal processes and report to the school board. So the district contacted comparable districts and shared findings with both the Board of Education and the Common Council last fall. We continue to collaborate with other districts regarding attendance practices. Increasingly, however, other districts are reaching out to learn more about the work AASD is doing related to attendance improvement. Most other surrounding school districts use truancy citations as their initial intervention rather than as a last resort. At this time, our Board of Education has not requested us to provide additional comparative reporting. However, we have sent another survey to nine comparable school districts in Wisconsin, and we'll have results available to you all in June. The next one is provide data for any case where the judiciary exceeds suggestions. This is not applicable as there have been no judiciary involvement at this point. Create a general contact email for parents or students dealing with attendance issues to seek help. So the district contact information for both district attendance coordinators, myself and Stacey Nitka, has been available on the district website since October. A general attendance email account would route directly to both of us, which is why the district chose to provide our individual email addresses and phone extensions directly on the district website. And then the last one, create student and family survey vehicle and a vehicle for anonymous feedback that reports to the board. So student survey results were shared with the committee on May 13th. This survey was specific to high school attendance education lessons. A global survey related to attendance will be administered to all high school students at the beginning of next school year. The Appleton Area School District surveys families each spring. We are more than happy to administer another survey, attendance specific, provided further direction from the committee regarding what information should be included in this survey, which we discussed at the last committee meeting. Finally, earlier this month, a feedback form was added to the AASD website, allowing anonymous feedback to be shared directly with both the attendance coordinators and our Board of Education. So that is directly on our district website.

That is all I have, and we will open it up to questions.

Do you want me to just remain up here for now?

Sure. Thank you very much for going through all of that. It's really important to me that you went through each part of the resolution and addressed what was being asked of you. Let's open it up for comments. This is an open but orderly discussion, so if you want to speak, anybody have any questions or want to make any comments? Alder Hayden, go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. And I would like to echo what Alder Crote was saying about going through the itemized list was very helpful. One question I have is a number of the items that you have sound like they're going to be implemented in the fall. So do you foresee that if this continues in the next year, that you'll have a little bit more traction to kind of gain some momentum and show more improvement than you have with the shortened time that you have because you didn't have a full year to implement this. You didn't have the run up in the fall ahead of the start of the school year. So with the learnings that you had with this time, do you foresee that you're going to kind of have improved numbers going to next year?

That is certainly our hope. And this is a learning experience for all of us. So definitely additional time would be beneficial for our district to be able to work through some of these processes. and to figure out what is working best for our students, which is our ultimate goal.

Okay, other questions, comments?

Alder Lambrecht, go ahead. First, thank you again for being here to present and share. I know that you have spent a lot of time this past year of your own trying to, you and your team, to prepare for these. One thing I would love for you to share a little bit, I think you kind of highlighted it with the checklist of here are the different considerations. And I was wondering, would you be willing to share that checklist with safety and licensing and the greater council as well? The one that goes through and would be a part of that recommendation to a CSO or something along those lines.

Yes, we can share a copy of our procedural checklist. I don't think that would be a problem.

All right, good. Thank you. Alder Fenton?

Thank you, Chair. If I don't want to go, I do not want to ignore the AASD folks that are here, but I have a couple questions to direct to the attorney.

Sure, yeah. Okay. Attorneys for. Yes, District 4.

Okay, so first I wanted to, I did this offline, but I wanted to thank you for the very extensive memos that you gave us on this subject. Absolutely. And for people who are listening, it's long, but especially the implementation memo, it's really worth reading because it really clears up a lot of things that we have been hearing even amongst ourselves in terms of members of the council. So I think that's definitely worth a read. So my first question is just related to mechanics. So we've got four options presented for this. Chair Crow says that this is gonna be on the agenda for our next meeting. Since one of those options is to do nothing, mechanically, if this item appears on the agenda, We would have to take some sort of action for anything for it to not sunset. So the fact that it appears on the agenda, just how does that process-wise, what goes on there?

So you basically hit the nail on the head. If there isn't an action taken, it will sunset. Right. So the default, if nothing else is done, this will sunset on June 30th, I believe it is. Right. and there would need to be some type of agreement on some type of action to adjust it in some way in order for it to continue in any form. Good question.

Yeah, so that was just a mechanical. Sure, continue. Thank you. So a question, and particularly, I don't want to rehash the past, but in the past, the penalties for the truancy itself seem to have been less an issue than penalties for failure to appear when a citation was issued. And you really, really covered the fact that there was, the goal was to not have any penalty administered. But in this, because in my mind this works like a traffic citation, but there can clearly be more penalties for not appearing. Can you kind of explain how that works?

If I understand the question, this kind of, I covered this somewhat in the operational insights section, which is on page five. Um, and I'll preface this by saying I was not with the city during the past that's being alluded to. Um, I wasn't involved with it and I've kind of deliberately, um, kind of kept my focus on the present situation and the court process as it currently is. Um, but this is not a situation where they're going to be, at least in terms of the way things are done to this point, They're not going to be chased around the students, the juvenile defendants that they would be in this particular case, most of them. So there's not going to be arrest warrants issued for them or a KPS issued for them, which is a juvenile arrest warrant. Effectively, they're not going to be chased down and brought to secure detention or anything like that. This is a, show up and we deal with it, or you don't show up and a default judgment is entered. And at some point, presumably, they'll have to deal with it in some way, shape, or form. I don't recall offhand if I mentioned it in the memorandum, but I can share that in those situations, the court commissioner and the local court rules are pretty permissive in terms of allowing a defendant to reopen a case if they ask to do that within a specified time period. generally that's six months or so. Uh, they come back and they can provide some type of version of excusable neglect or justification for it. The commissioner is very likely to allow them to do that even in situations where I might otherwise object. I usually lose those arguments. Um, with rare exception, but that goes to the idea that this is more about dealing with it substantively, as long as they're willing to show up and do that. I didn't highlight it in my comments before, but I think I highlighted it in here. One of the things that we looked at in terms of, utilizing that court appearance as a benefit for them to be there, but specifically to connect them with services and put them in direct contact, because sometimes that's the issue, because the goal is not to have a conviction. The goal is not to require some type of penalty or forfeiture. That's not, as a prosecutor, that's not my job. My job is to seek justice, and that's not the way that's best served in court.

in this type of situation very often so i appreciate that i did read it in the memo i just wanted to hear it said out loud um can i ask a follow-up to that because hang on one second and my last one this this is really simple in terms of this it's very clear that the school district doesn't issue tickets is it the school resource officer who would issue the ticket or would the ticket come from our the attorney's office?

It would come from the SRO, the school resource officer. They've been infrequent enough that I have essentially asked the SROs just to, if they've got one that they're looking at, let's go through it together so we can, at least for the first few, so everybody's on the same page about what we're doing with it. they're frankly just haven't been that many of them, which is a good and a bad thing. Um, but it would be issued by the SRO, but ultimately that's one gatekeeper. And then the city attorney's office and more specifically myself, uh, currently myself, I am a next level of, of, um, of gatekeeper to it. Um, because as I alluded to the prosecutorial prosecutorial discretion, There's any number of decision makers along that process that have the authority to push it forward or stop it where it's at. And basically everybody needs to be pulling in the same direction for it to continue through. And if there's a stop at any one of those points, it's not going any further. Thank you. I will yield. Okay.

Okay, Elder Lambert, go ahead.

Just a couple other follow-ups on those things. So just to confirm, the council has no authority over the judicial or the execution of that, but we have some form of guidance that we can provide to the APD with regards to some of this stuff. Is that my understanding correct, or through the school resource officers and the attorney's office, I suppose, the areas that we have some discretion.

Yes. Um, this gets complicated in terms of a separation of powers because we're dealing with both different units of government, but then also different branches within that same government. But in terms of dealing with city officials, city apparatus, city rules, city policy, that's where the authority lies here. And then, uh, in terms of the city code that does provide some, um, outer boundaries for the judicial branch of the courts. Uh, but ultimately within the law, they have the discretion to handle it how they want to. And in terms of court operations, that's not something that the city has any, um, any, any authority over. I should, um, clarify specifically and it doesn't substantively change the point. The court commissioner is still a judicial officer. They are, uh, part of the judicial branch, and they do essentially work for the judges. So there is judicial involvement. None of the cases have gone up to the judge. There have been no judicially imposed penalties or anything like that. And it doesn't substantively change the point that Smarta was making. I just wanted to clarify, since I've been a stickler for the terminology up to this point, I wanted to make sure I was consistent in that just so there wasn't confusion that popped up.

And then the last question I have for you, Terry Bruin, and I know this might be hypothetical because as you just said, we don't have any convictions or we don't have any situations where a penalty has been made, but even when you were describing kind of the process at that point of somebody not showing up, a judgment gets, a default judgment gets made, there might be a penalty such as a fine that is issued at that time to try and compel an individual to show up and maybe reopen that case and address the issue. If that continues where they don't, right, the fine is still out there and that fine does not get paid, and that person ages out, they become 18, what happens to that fine that is outstanding for that individual that is now an adult that has a municipal fine effectively that is on their record?

So I think I may have misspoke if I said there have been no penalties whatsoever. I'm not going to get into any specifics, but I don't want to provide overtly false information. I want to be clear about that. As far as the question, that is largely, so that debt remains, that's a debt that remains through the Clerk of Courts. Specifically, the Audigamee County Clerk of Courts, they function as our municipal court as well, and that would function through the whatever collections mechanisms that the Clerk of Courts utilizes. A lot of the times, They will sit out there for quite some time until there's a tax intercept or things like that. I have seen situations where folks have come back years and years later to try and address it, and they're not at that point able to address the substance and go back and fight the ticket, whatever it was. And this is not specific to truancy in any way, shape, or form. So they're not able to go back and deal with that because that's long done and over with. But in terms of the monetary aspect of it, the interest that accrues when something goes to collections and sits idle, that is stuff that the court is typically, from what I've seen, able to to work with them on. But at that point, it's not something that we're directly involved with. That is something that the clerk of courts is dealing with as effectively the entity to which this money is owed.

Thank you. I think there has been some questions, or at least a lot hypothesis out there about what happens and warrants or other things coming down the pike down the line. So I just wanted to get as much clarification on that as possible.

There are no warrants in these situations, no KPIs. Nobody's going to jail for these things. I think within state law, it's at least theoretically possible. It's not been the practice for as long as I've been in the judicial, as long as I've been involved in the court systems in this area. And that would come more through contempt mechanisms, not

So a fine would sit out there. It would be basically in collections until such point that whatever mechanism for them to be able to repay that, be that a tax or any of those normal things, that might be utilized.

Yes. It is a civil debt, so it's dealt with through a civil process, not through any type of criminal process. Great.

Thank you.

All right.

Alder Smith, go ahead. Thank you. I have a follow-up as well, kind of along the same lines as Josh was going with Attorney Berwyn, and it's also a question for AASD. And I was thinking along the same lines that, so expungement, there's a presumption of confidentiality that would be the key idea here. So when people, after they're done with this, when they go to apply for jobs or whatever that may be, since it's a citation, this isn't going to be something that comes up or that employees are going to see?

So yes and no. It's not about it being a citation necessarily. Most of these are juvenile citations, which any of the stuff with juveniles involves more confidentiality. I want to be abundantly clear and emphasize once again that expungement is not part of this discussion whatsoever. Civil citations, they're not expungeable, period. But in some ways, and this is apropos to an earlier action item, from tonight, uh, the way that these are, the way that I hope to address these and the way that the court is inclined to address these based on what I've seen in past practice, uh, involves ultimately dismissal, which in a lot of respects is superior to expungement because there's no conviction, there's no finding of guilt. So when somebody is asked the question of, have you ever been convicted of say law violation in this particular case rather than a crime, If you're convicted and the convictions expunged, technically you were still convicted. It's still a valid conviction. And you would need to answer, in my estimation, yes, you were convicted. If you're found not guilty, either because of some diversion, like essentially what we're talking about, or because you were found not guilty at trial, whatever it is, then you wouldn't need to answer yes to that because you weren't ever convicted. But the confidentiality comes more from the fact that these are juvenile citations. And then the other piece of it is that stuff does not stay up on CCAP indefinitely. Even if it's part of the court record, it's not necessarily staying up on CCAP, even if it's part of the court record. So CCAP isn't necessarily a great representation of somebody's full public court record. But it does get taken off of CCAP, so it's a little bit harder to find that way, even if they can still go directly back to the court file and find it. Juvenile records are still much harder to get, though.

OK. And then my second question is about, you mentioned a few. Are you able to say an exact number of how many people started in the process of the citation? Even if they weren't at the end cited or had a penalty, how many people kind of started into the system?

That I'm not aware of, because the only ones that would come to my attention are ones that either the SROs were strongly considering issuing a citation for or that they wanted my input on or that there was an actual citation issued for. And I know the funnel for the process is much bigger than that. But as far as what has actually made its way to me, it's been frankly pretty minuscule, which again is good and bad.

And if I can just comment, for the Appleton Area School District, we have only recommended one citation that went to an SRO. We have not moved forward with any other recommendations.

Yeah, I heard you say one, and then Attorney Berwin was saying a few, so that's why I was trying to sort of get a handle on those, the numbers there. just what we're talking about as far as?

I don't recall necessarily what context I said a few in, but I may have, it was referring to citations more generally, or it may have just been in precise language to try and preserve the anonymity portion of it and be deliberately less specific in that regard. I'm not trying to be misleading on it, but I am trying to be non-specific for confidentiality reasons.

Okay, thank you. And then just a question as far as ASD's kind of overall view, is there a sense that this, okay, we've kind of gotten... of understanding the system and how this is going to work and we would expect to see more or is it more just the you're happy with the presence of truancy citation being there and that seems to be meeting the the needs that you have or do you expect to see you know one is a pretty low number but more moving on from here.

So we are going to continue using all of our interventions that we already have in place. There's nothing that we plan to get rid of. We're going to continue our process of that flow chart using our tier two and tier three interventions. And I think having the truancy ordinance in place is directly impacting students who will likely never get a citation. So just like a speeding ticket. My daughter's 16. She doesn't want to get pulled over by the police and get a speeding ticket and get points off of her license. So in turn, she is not going to speed. So for students who may not be significantly habitually truant, may never be a student we would consider for a citation, having it in place alone is a deterrent for them to be skipping random classes and meeting that criteria for habitual truancy, regardless of the level it gets. As far as would we look at issuing more tickets in the future? I'm not sure. I mean, I would never envision that we would be handing them out as a first option like some other districts around us are doing. It will continue to be a last resort if it's still an option for us. We will only consider it after all other measures have been attempted.

Thank you. Okay, thank you. Alder Hartzheim, and then you.

Thank you, Chair. Might I ask, please, that Ms. Marta's information that was presented point by point is available to us in a subsequent addition to either like in the minutes of this meeting or in an agenda, a future agenda item for this?

Yeah, good point. If you have that in a... document if you could leave it with a copy or send a copy to the clerk's office we can I want to make sure to your point I want to make sure everyone has all the information they need to make a decision when we make when we get to that point anything else no that's okay Alder Hayden great segue um one question I had was how critical is it that we make a decision at our next committee meeting because

When you look at the runway, there isn't much there because we have one committee meeting or one council meeting right after that. Then we have our July 4th council meeting is canceled. So it would be the middle of July before we have that. Or is it that we, since we don't have any citations in the hopper, that this is something that could go to the middle of July? Or is there really any impact if we don't make a decision, a definitive decision before the end of July?

Good question, and the purpose of putting it on the July 10th meeting was intentional, to allow for time for the committee to possibly take action at that meeting or defer action. I think we heard earlier that there's some information that'll be coming out after that date. I think you said the 17th, maybe, you would have more information?

I think you and Superintendent Hartges had talked about a June 17th full City Council meeting. So our district attendance data would be available by then.

Okay. Yeah, we don't have to take action on that date. It's just an opportunity to take action if we're ready to look at the four options that Attorney Berwin presented to us. Thank you. Okay. Other questions, comments? There is another meeting after this, so I don't want to rush anything, but if we can... wrap up a little bit here um good discussion thank you all for coming did other members of the school district did you have anything you wanted to share okay um any other members of the audience want to comment okay all right other questions for the school district or the attorney's office no okay again thank you very much thank you if you could get that uh that document or the answers to those I think Superintendent Harches has it in some format.

He doesn't have what I shared tonight. Okay. Well, either way.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. Moving on to 26-0696 is the April traffic report. There was the attachment with the APD's actions in April. Chief Olson, do you want to cover this quick? District 2 should be on.

Thank you, Chair. Yeah, you have the traffic report in front of you, and as you can see, it's similar to what the previous months looked like. I would expect going into the June report, which will reflect the activity in May, you might see a slight increase. However, I would like to share that in checking with my staff, the noise complaints have been minimal to this point, even with the nicer weather, and I feel like I want to knock on wood somewhere if that's possible. But to this point, the complaints really have been very minimal.

Okay. Are you seeing an increase, I don't have the data from previous months, but looking at warnings versus citations, are you seeing repeat offenders getting a citation the second or third time, warning the first time, It seems like the list of citations is longer this month than maybe previous reports, but again, I don't have the data to compare.

Yeah, I think some of that has to do with the number of traffic grants that we have out there right now as well, which our grant obligate obligates us to write more citations versus warnings. I do think the education component with our staff also in the importance of getting the messaging across regarding the emphasis on noise is probably reflective in the increase in citations as well. but I think as far as repeat offenders are concerned, Attorney Berwin might have a better intuitive feeling on that just because he sees the names that I don't have that same connection to as far as seeing repeat names come across the desk.

Sure. So this is anecdotal, obviously, but there are some folks that seem to come through with some repetition, and I will note that the idea that there's more citations being written doesn't have any impact on how I handle them. And typically with the, the muffler violations, the equipment violations, um, the goal is get your vehicle street legal. Um, and that is the, that's the outcome we want. Uh, so if the vehicle street legal, those citations typically get, uh, dismissed, um, typically how I handle those. Um, but there are a couple that I would say are, are, repeat individuals. And the officers do a pretty good job of noting if they realize that the person has been warned before and providing that information to me as well. So that's part of how I'm aware of that. But really, there aren't too many. And some of the ones that I see, frankly, they seem to come from out of town.

OK. Thank you. And it looks like I know there's a column here for downtown corridor. A good number of this list is downtown corridor, which is obviously an area of focus for noise. Alder Lambrecht, go ahead.

Can I address the chief?

Sure.

Can you please just... briefly describe the differences between excessive revving, squealing tires, the illegal muffler, and then the loud, unnecessary noise. It seems like those three items can be maybe a little bit discretionary, so I just wanted to understand why maybe officers decide one of those versus others.

I'm actually going to defer to attorney Berwyn on this just because he's more in tune with those elements since he has to prosecute those, but that's a great question. Thank you.

And there is often a lot of overlap between them, although they are very specific and distinct things. Um, so the, the revving and squealing tires, that's a local ordinance that was passed within the last year or so. Uh, that's directed at a specific set of behaviors. Uh, the, uh, the equipment violation, the muffler violations, those are statutory. Those are things that we have, as a municipality, no ability to regulate or set stricter rules on. And what those boil down to is the exhaust system can't be any louder than stock. That's the simple version of it, but that doesn't set any hard limits. The excessive noise, that I would need to look for looking for here. I don't know, without looking at specific citations, if those would be specifically vehicle related, at least required to be vehicle related within the traffic code.

I guess, is loud music or bass or things of that nature.

That could be any number of things. Ultimately, though, it is not something that would typically be dealt with. It would tend to be things that don't fit under one of the other two. But again, there could be lots of overlap. And where there is overlap, then there is some discretion on if one or more of those citations is written. And that is just kind of an inherent level of officer discretion. From what I've seen, I don't have any significant concerns about how that's being exercised. It seems to be exercised in a fairly appropriate way.

I appreciate that. Thank you. And I appreciate also seeing that there are various tools at the officer's disposal depending on what the situation of that is. noise situation is so that they can address it the best way possible. Thank you. Good.

I could, I could add just for my time when I was out doing traffic stops as an officer, the loud and unnecessary noise would definitely capture the loud music for me. Um, as well as sometimes we encounter somebody who's excessively honking their horn or trying to create a disturbance using their vehicle that way. And that would also fall under that. Okay.

Thank you. Yeah, good. Okay, other questions, comments? Alder Smith? Oh, yeah, sorry.

Thank you. I appreciate the list that we're getting at the end of each month. That's helpful, and to see what citations are being handed out. I'm surprised that the noise complaints, that they'd be characterized as minimal, because I'm definitely hearing from people who are calling in and discouraged at the fact that they're not able to get through. Sometimes they're moved over to the county switchboards and they're not getting any responses from the county or feel like they're being taken seriously. So I do feel like there's still a lot of community concern with the noise. And I'm curious, how will we know when the situation with noise that our residents are going through is getting better? Like, do we have any kind of way of saying, OK, yes, we've taken a bite out of this noise problem, or is the only thing we have a list of citations.

So, yeah, I can attempt to answer that. I don't want to give the impression that I'm minimizing the noise issue. I just wanted to point out that when we look at the number of complaints that we were fielding last year compared to the ones that we've been fielding so far this year, it feels less. Um, certainly not the noise issue is not resolved or taken care of. I think anybody that spends any time downtown can attest that it still exists. And I don't know that we're ever going to reach a point that everybody that is living or working or you know, engaging in entertainment downtown is going to be pleased with the noise level. But I can say that it remains a priority for us. And we continue to address it the best way that we can with the resources that we have. And I would hope at some point that there's some people that live and work downtown that could say that they've observed a decrease and that their quality of living down there has improved. I would consider that to be a success.

So is there, I guess I'm looking for some kind of a way that we can have data that would allow us to say, you know, this is, you know, this is improving things for people. And I think there's, even calls, are calls being logged? Because I think the people I talk to have a little bit of fatigue on calling in because they feel like it just goes out and nothing happens, the noise continues, and so they aren't sure if it's worthwhile to keep calling. Is phone calls about noise, are those logged and that they could be presented as a data point at some point?

So the phone calls that come in, I guess it depends on where they go and the time of day that they happen, because to your point, after 10 p.m. and the weekends, if they're calling, that does go to the sheriff's department comm center. And if it's a call where they want or they feel like an officer should be dispatched to address it, then that gets screened up, what we call an incident screen. Those are searchable, so we could see what sort of noise complaints are coming in and where that officers are being sent. If it's between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. and the call comes in non-emergency to our front desk, Those calls can be handled a couple of different ways. They can get screened up accordingly, similar to the comm center, where an officer might be sent out. They could send out an MDC message to all the officers in the area, making them aware of the complaint. And if there's somebody in the area, they can go and address it. They could send out an email, though that's much less frequent. It really just depends on what the complaint is and the person calling what they would like to see done with it. As I'm sure you're aware, it's difficult when it's maybe a car coming through, but they might not have a description of the vehicle. It might just be a complaint that there's excessive revving happening maybe outside the residence. So when the officer drives through the area, if that isn't happening, there really isn't any enforcement action for them to be able to take. So it really just kind of depends on what the complaint is and the specifics of it, and if that person is... specific about what they would like to see done.

So if, I mean, if people have asked me before about this, the, the noise calls and if, if those are logs, it seems like they are, you're saying, and that would be something we could see a kind of a where, how many or understand the number of calls coming in. That'd be something that we could see at a future time.

I don't want to stop this discussion, but I don't want to stray too far off of the traffic report just for agenda reasons. If you want to respond to that, go ahead. I just want to caution not to stray too far. Attorney Berwyn's shaking his head yes.

So as far as the noise violations are concerned in a report, that could be found if we would do a check of our noise complaints is like a searchable feature within our incidents. So if it got screened up for an officer to respond, those are absolutely searchable and trackable. The other thing I would like to point out, though, just related even to the traffic report, that if you encourage people to utilize the online reporting for traffic, that's helpful for us, too, because those are all tracked. Those go on our brief, many times go into our briefing for officers and direct them to specific locations for extra patrols. and or if there's a specific vehicle that continues to go by that somebody has observed, that's helpful to know as well. So we can direct our patrols and our resources accordingly.

Okay, thank you. And I think this is a continuous, this question is directly about this. This is, we don't have any other data than citations and warnings. It sounds like also we can add the phone logs, but there's no other data that we have as far as measuring or knowing the levels of noise or how we're doing as far as improvement goes.

Not with the resources that the police department has available to them.

All right, thank you. Okay. All right, other questions or comments on the traffic report?

Go ahead. I really appreciate you mentioning the online reporting form. I think that is some key information that I just heard, and something I'm going to be encouraging folks that maybe have similar types of concerns. Not only do they not maybe have to get on a phone when they don't normally want to talk to people, but knowing that it's tracked and elevated maybe in a different way is good to know. So thank you very much for sharing.

Yeah, of course. I mean, yeah, please point that out to anybody that calls in that you as alders have contact with. It does email directly to our lieutenant in charge of our traffic safety unit as well as the traffic officers.

Thank you. Good. All right. Any other comments or questions? All right. We will move on to the list of special events. There are four of them listed. And then we'll move. Oh, go ahead. Alder Hartzheim. 13 should be on.

Thank you, Chair. I apologize that it's late, but not noted here on June 13th is the 75th City of Appleton Flag Day Parade. the special event um has been approved i don't know why it's not on the list but that's okay i just wanted to make everybody aware of that because at 2 p.m is the step off and it is one of the oldest longest flag day parades in all of the country and this year there is a change in the route so please go on the city social sites for the parades or just look up City of Appleton Parades online and you'll find the information available for the new route and all the information for this big deal, 75th Parade. Thank you.

Great, thank you for mentioning that. Yes, a very important one for our community. Okay, moving on to Director's Reports. 26-0695, there's nothing for the City Clerk, there's nothing for the Police Chief, but there is a hiring update from the Fire Chief. Fire Chief Hanson, go ahead.

Director one. Thank you chair just quick update. We just hired 2 candidates that pool started with 52 candidates that applied for the position through our multi step process it was whittled down to 5 that we sent to the police and fire commission all 5 were approved out of those 5 only 2 were paramedics so we only hired the 2 that were. The other three were placed on an eligibility list and we will contact them because all three of them planned on going to paramedic school either right now or starting in July or this fall. We will be firing up another hiring process in August and that will be for hiring next spring, so spring of 27. So in the meantime, we'll be running two positions short until we hire next year.

Okay. Questions? Comments? All right. That takes care of everything except for number eight. We'll do adjourn. Second. Motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? 4-0. We are adjourned. Thank you.

Excellent meeting.