Transportation Committee - Regular Meeting

Hello. The transportation committee meeting will begin, 04:03PM on Wednesday, May 7. Roll call. Alder Savage?

Present.

Alderwoman Vonda Pindel Charles is not quite here, but will be joining us shortly, I believe. And I'm here. We have quorum. Can I get a motion for approval of the agenda?

So moved.

Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Pass. Can I get approval of minutes from threetwelvetwenty five?

So moved.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Motion passes. Alright. And Aldo Rhonda Pindell Charles is joining us. Thank you. First up on our agenda is, our 1725 transit development plan, Indianapolis, and we have director Moore and crew to give a presentation. Thank you.

Good afternoon, madam chair, committee members, alderman, alderwoman Pindell Charles, and alderman Savage. Marcus Moore, director of transportation parking, City of Annapolis. I'd like to give you a few updates before we get into the, TDP about what's been going on around our area. One of the things I've already discussed with Alderman Savage is our new white label for the GoTime. It's been updated in the Google Store and the Play Store.

And, basically, what the white label is is essentially an app that's been customized to look like or to be for our GoTime service. So when you go to the transit Transigo GoTime app, you'll see, you know, a a backdrop that looks like Eagle Alley in the logo that we've created for the service. Other things around our area, ADOT staff participated in the Robinwood and Bloomsbury Square community days. These events were for about one hour, and staff presented information about GoTime, our micro transit, and our ADA service and the like. There were about a dozen residents that attended and, several actually signed up for our ADA paratransit service, which is good taking the show on the road to show folks what we actually are offering.

And those were on April. Bus procurement, as you know, we get buses every so often as the old the other ones are starting to, age out of service. So we took delivery of six smaller cutaway buses, last week, replacing some of the older, larger ones. And these buses would mainly go into the micro mobility service in our ADA paratransit. They're smaller our smaller cutaway version, eight eight passenger size.

One of the other big things that we're really getting excited to look forward to is our procurement with automatic vehicle locator. You've heard about AVL, Where's My Bus? Some of our surrounding communities actually have that. We have it specifically on the Magenta shuttle and on our, GoTime. This will be a little bit deeper to cover all of our transit routes.

So that RFP draft has been, you know, submitted to m t MDOT, MTA with the DBE analysis and to see if we can advertise soon and also share with our procurement officer to get that going. Also, last month, don't know if guys you've ever heard of a a bus rodeo. So last month, five of our drivers actually participated in the bus rodeo. And the win for all around the state, in the winter's year, we'll go to a national. It's good bragging rights of stuff that you can participate against your peers.

We didn't place high enough. It's just a top three or four to go to the nationals, but we've participated through TAM, which is Transportation Association of Maryland. They sponsor it each year. Moving on with training and all, with our transportation superintendent and our total maintenance staff, they were invited to tour the MTA Kirk facility in Baltimore, and that facility actually maintains all of their electric buses. So they got a chance to see how they're working on, you know, keeping their fleet going.

It was a good, road trip for them. But now what we're here to talk about is the TVP plan every five years. So So this is the first time we've done this, since 2019 just before the pandemic. So as we discussed at the, one of the other transportation committee meetings maybe back in the fall, KFH, which are transportation planners, Don, Dan, is here with us, senior transportation planner. Dan Dalton and Kwaku are the manager of this project are here to discuss with you what we have presented for your review.

I'd like to call up Dan Dalton and Kwaku Dua with me, and we'll give you the presentation. I emailed one and we have a set projected for you, and I do have some hard copies if you wanna take notes with that. Mister Parker? Oh, we did the other ones over here.

If you just

hand yourself again. Right.

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you again for having us back. As director Moore just mentioned, we had the opportunity to come before you in November, when the weather was a little different than today to provide kind of an overview of the the planning process. What we wanna do today then is actually talk about actually what came out of the planning process and present to you the particularly this, key points from the draft plan. The challenge for us is presenting about eight to nine months worth of work in an appropriate amount of time here.

So we obviously are going to hit the key points and be available for any questions or discussion you'd like to have afterwards then too. Just again a little bit of an overview of the transit planning process. As director Moore mentioned, this is a process that every transit system in Maryland goes to about every five to six years. It is a requirement of the Maryland Department of Transportation Maryland Trans Administration because it connects actually with the annual application process for federal and state funding. The state though issues that requirement but also then works hand in hand with with the the local transit systems and the development of the plants also then to including, obviously, providing financial and fiscal support for that.

So the TDP overall provides an opportunity to kinda even though director Moore and Kwaku and Jamar on everyday basis are analyzing and evaluating services, the TDP process presents like a specific time frame to be able to look back a couple years from the services that have been operated They conduct a needs assessment and we'll talk in a minute about the needs assessment and the opportunity then for a variety of inputs on that. And then obviously then some potential improvements and options then for expanding and improving mobility and transit in the future then too. Often, we talk about the fact that not everything in a TDP typically will be funded. It would be great. It would be.

But if it's not in a TDP, then it definitely won't be funded in the future then too. So we want to have a realistic view of transit for the next five years while at the same time hanging some sort of visionary aspect to that also. We're always trying a short range plan like this, trying to find that balance. One thing I should note too, this is a short range plan. So it is a plan, again, conducted every five years.

It does take into account other planning and more long term planning efforts too and there's a section of the TDP that kind of covers those areas then too. This just provides an overview of the planning process where again we had to kick off with our advisory committee, which we'll talk about in a minute, where we obviously we were taking a look at existing conditions and particularly an assessment obviously of current Annapolis transit services then too. Extensive community outreach through some couple different surveys, the advisory committee, and we'll talk again in a minute, provide you an overview of that. That leads into potential alternatives both from an operational and a capital standpoint, and those alternatives then are then detailed further in the ones that actually become recommendations in the transit plan part of the overall TDP. And again that right now is in a draft format and available again, we'll be hitting the high points then this afternoon.

And you you can see I keep pausing because I usually have someone else who's advancing the slides and like, oh, this slide's not advancing. So again, I've mentioned several times about the outreach aspect. There was a public advisory committee. I know Kwaku worked with the city government in actually establishing a committee that included users of the system and also several of the Annapolis transit drivers, Who else knows better about what's going on and what the needs are than people on the front line? I believe one of the public advisory committee members actually came to the city council meeting last week and actually presented public testimony in support of the plan.

The public advisory committee met at key points during the planning process, very engaged in the planning process, which we enjoyed and gave us great input, especially when we got to the point of the alternatives and options. And we had a rather really good discussion about which ones then would move forward that, and you'll see that in actually some of the recommendations that we'll discuss this afternoon. Obviously, presented to you back in November then to providing kind of an overview of the of the planning process. We had a rider survey, a customer survey, and then we had a community survey. So we want to get input from people who are using the system, but then we also want to get input from the broader community.

So both of those survey process. We also had several stakeholder interviews with people who we either weren't on the committee or we didn't get their input specifically through a survey. We had some one on one discussions with them. I mentioned the operations and drivers. There was also a questionnaire presented to the drivers allow them to provide their input.

We also had a a project website, so we could post documents there then too. And again, there was a public comment period then where the plan was actually posted on the city's website for any particular comment then. So there is an extensive section obviously in the plan which covers the needs assessment, but we have one slide trying to cover at least the key points from that then too. So from current customers, not surprisingly, we heard about the need for earlier service, later services, and also on a late more extended services on Saturday. Not surprising because most of the people who actually are using the system then may be using it for employment, which may have morning, earlier morning hours, later evening hours, or require Saturday hours too.

But we also hear about Sunday service and also the need for more frequent service beyond what actually is in place now then too. Then for the broader community, we heard some of those same items, but also we heard from people one of the questions we asked in the survey, for the community survey, is if you don't use Annapolis transit, what changes, what improvements could be made that actually would encourage you to actually use transit? And you'll see the fact that there was new service near their community or connecting them to other communities, more local service within their community, service near their home, obviously from a convenience factor from that standpoint, more frequent service, shorter wait times, and then improved information on available services then too. You'll see that a couple of those, and this will tie in with the new service, the GoTime service, which actually features a lot of these items from the standpoint of service closer to people's homes and more rapid response service too. So not surprising, you're going to see a proposed expansion of that service for the future then too because it kind of responds to the needs both from the current customers but also potential customers in the future then too.

And I want to highlight one key item and again there was a ton of details in the plan about the survey results, but one that we ask people is if you think there is a need for additional or improved public transit services. This is in the community survey where most of the people are not transit riders, so we all that gives us a good flavor with the support for non transit users. And you'll see that 86% of the people responded yes. Even if they don't use public transit, they feel like there is a need for expanded improved services then too. So overall from the needs assessment then, these are the proposed improvements that are included in the plan and we'll talk in a moment about kind of, obviously they they have to be prioritized in some way.

It'd be great for all them to happen right away, but obviously that's not reasonable then. So we actually will talk a minute about the proposed implementation schedule for the improvements then too. The first one is kind of a no cost type of option is to kind of streamline in some tweaks to the current system, both for the for the excuse me, for the brown, green, and red routes then too. Some streamlining of those services then too to interline the routes and also adjust to certain to broaden the services a little bit, but still using the same amount of hours actually, the operational hours that are in place now. We are also proposing a new blue route, and because of course we had to come up had to have a color for the name of the service, because the other services are brown, green, and red.

That obviously could be taken into account if it's actually implemented. But this is one that we heard a lot of input from the advisory committee, and this is one, and we'll show a map in a moment, where it serves the Annapolis High area and some of that parts of the city and actually a little bit beyond the city boundaries too. But we heard a received a lot of input from the committee related this, so there is a proposed new route then. The expanding the go time service, as I mentioned, this is one that's been, as you know, very popular. On demand micro transit is the way a lot of systems are going to, like Annapolis is, and so there's an expansion related to that.

And then there is improvements related to the the expanded service in the mornings, evenings, and weekend service. And then one thing that we mentioned, and even though there is coordination between the city and the county, my co worker Sarah and I was here the last presentation, we may have mentioned we just recently completed the Anne Arundel County Transit plan. And having worked on the Anne Arundel County one and on the Annapolis one, we there's good relationships, but we saw a fact that there could be even greater connectivity and planning between the two jurisdictions. And so that is formally actually presented, actually, and discussed in in the TDP then. And that happens now, but it just what we call it out was it'd be great if that, along with working with MDOT MTA, which obviously runs MTA services in the area, commuter services, there there appeared to be from our from an outside perspective, a greater need for connection coordination and connectivity related to those services then.

So finally getting to instead of the bullet points, actually some of the maps actually and graph is in there. And this is actually provides an overview of the proposed system taking into account the changes to the red, brown, and green routes and also the proposed blue routes. You'll see the fact that with this and in future slides here that we highlight mobility hubs for key areas then that are key destinations for people needing to go to and travel to, and you'll see those are taken into account in the the proposed modifications of the current routes and the new proposed new route, and then you're also gonna see it in the next slide which actually present presents the the expanded micro transit on demand go time services then too. Kwaku, please stop me at any time if you have any comments or thoughts too. Because Director Moore and Kwaku obviously were their assistance through this this process, as you can imagine, was invaluable for, as we knew a good bit about the system, but obviously with the specifics, and they were extremely helpful along with the advisory committee.

Next up then is the the micro transit system or the expanded go time service. As you know, right now it just continues to be like one area, one zone, and the TDP actually, through this, we did an evaluation of additional zones and received input. I think at one time actually working with advisory committee there was actually four potential zones, but through our discussion it ended up being the three zones then that you see on the graphic here, again focused around the mobility hubs. The whole idea again with the GoTime service with on demand is the fact that it provides that service within a zone, but also can be the feeder service then to the current fixed route network also. As you're well aware, Annapolis has a lot of, I guess, nooks and crannies, I guess.

That's the effective term of where people live. Actually, older woman O'Neil and I think met at a senior building that is where there's probably a great demand for service, but it's an area that's just you never be able to take a bus back to. And so the on demand service, which again has already been implemented, great job of marketing that, What this does is take that to the next level where potentially there could be three different zones in the area. One thing we should point out, and Mark director Morris probably mentioned this in previous presentations, the great thing about the on demand service is the flexibility. That the area of these zones, these are proposed zones, they could be implemented this way or they could be modified and they could be tweaked all the time then too because it's just something going into the software and be able to change the service zones a little bit.

So these all these services are proposed, but obviously they can be modified through the plan through actual implementation then. Next couple slides, actually just a little bit more detail about each one of the three zones, and again, you'll see highlighted the the mobility hubs, key areas that people would want to be able to access through the micro transit zones. Some of this again is concurrent with the the current IGOS service, but then this expands it out to three specific areas then. Did I say iGo? We are working with another transit system whose service is iGo, and I joked with director Moore before the meeting, I'm probably gonna call it iGo instead of go time.

Sadly, I did that. Thank you for correcting me, director. Probably if I hadn't told you that, I wouldn't have done it, but Every one of the micro transit services has needs to have a special marketing type of thing for the service that are unique. So obviously, the go part is a very important part of that process. Is actually then the last one of the go time, actually shows the last zone.

And again, this is the one that incorporates the area right now, I believe it's not actually in this current zone, but also incorporates the potential new blue route that would actually also travel in this area too, and incorporate some of that area around Annapolis High School, Social Security Administration, Annapolis Harbor Center, those areas then too with that area, and those would serve as the hubs, and also out, you know, to the mall area then too into the western part of the city. Now, I'm always hesitant when we put numbers up on a screen because you'll see the word conceptual on this screen. But obviously the plan does have projected operating and capital budgets recognizing the fact that again, take into account current conditions and to give an idea about this. There's a couple of things that are on this that are in the plan, and I want to highlight this from the standpoint because it does show a dramatic increase in the budget, but there's a couple notes related to this. One is the fact that the the first couple years, it focuses on the services that we just mentioned, the blue route and the expanded micro transit.

You'll see under year five though, there is a variety of different expansions that then relate more from a regional standpoint. And so some of those would actually not be City of Annapolis services. Those would be the city working in conjunction with the MTA and with Anne Arundel County to implement service, but we did have some costs for those projected out from our work on the Anne Arundel County TDP, and so those are included in there. So I just want to caution you as you look at the numbers, obviously, it increases, but some of that actually in that last projected last year would be ones that would actually be a regional service and not necessarily operated by city or specifically paid for by the city then too. Again, this is these are conceptual numbers.

The actual final implementation of any service will be dependent on the funding that's available and obviously any costs related to that, any changes in cost between now and the implementation. But it's a way of actually giving at least an overview of the potential costs if all the services were implemented, and also then projecting out what the federal state share potentially will be, and then relate it to the local share. So with that said, one thing that we always highlight when we present these plans is the fact that this is a plan. So it does not hold the city or to the MTA in actually funding any specific element. That is actually then through the annual application process, the ATP that is the city of Annapolis submits to the state, and so the funding for that is actually always based on that.

So these potential improvements would be part though of the annual application process. But one of the first things that the MTA looks at when they look at the application, not surprisingly, is the fact, well, is it in your TDP? You're asking for this expansion, you're asking for this funding, where is it? In this way, the city can be able to point directly to something that's right in the TDP then. So, again, the plan is a five year plan, looks broadly, but the actual, I guess, nuts and bolts of the the funding and the implementation are in the annual transportation plan.

And I assume director Moore probably comes to the committee and presents that information on an annual basis and discusses that with you then too. So these potential improvements would be part of that. That is eight, nine months worth of work in about ten, fifteen minutes. So I please I'm sure you have questions with that then too. Hopefully, was helpful though in understanding and giving the kind of the broad review of the transit plan.

Yes. Thank you very much. It was. I have a couple of questions, and I know that my colleagues have. Looking at the expanded zones, for the microtransit, the GO time, I love it. How does one is one able to move through zones? How would that how do you foresee that? I'm starting off on the far right side of Zone 1, but I really need to get to Zone 3 in the middle. Am I transferring buses? How am I going about?

I have a couple of thoughts on that, but, you go you're gonna be the operational one. I'll talk from a broader standpoint of what typically the on demand service is how they're designed, but then they actually will then have to be designed specifically for Annapolis. But overall, a broader standpoint, the idea is the fact of having travel within a zone or an area and service then also serve as a feeder to the fixed route network. So there will be some challenges in actually trying to have people be able to go across zones. This will be the this is the challenge of implementing on demand services in an area that's pretty compact because you don't want to take away ridership on your fixed routes.

You want to encourage ridership on your fixed routes because that you really have a knowledge of exactly how much it costs to operate that. While I suppose that on demand or demand response services are a little bit obviously more variable. So, Quako, I know you've been thinking about that about from an operational standpoint then too, so I'm talking more from a broader what micro trends on demand services, how it's designed to actually support mobility and improve mobility.

Yeah. You you are right. Microtransit to zones or buses are not designed to move from one zone to the other. It's supposed to be operating within the zone. However, in our discussion, the idea is that we will use the one quarter for mine buffer as we use in the ADA.

So if where you're going is very close or just over the border of the current zone, the bus will be able to take you there. Otherwise, the idea is not to move one bus from one zone to the other. If you look at the orientation of the microtransit concept plan, they are more like east north south direction, whereas the idea of the fixed route is East West so that if you want to transfer from one zone to the other, you can actually catch a fixed route and then go to the next zone. So that's the way that's the idea. Microtransit zones are not supposed to take one person from, say, zone a cross zone b all the way to zone c, and that is the function of fixed routes service.

My second one is sort of in relation to that, that I see that zone three is basically not at all in the city. And it would that be a partnership with county, or would that be a city run microtransit outside of the boundary?

The microtransit zones are are essentially based upon our current service area, which is beyond which is beyond the city. Sorry. Beyond the city. So it is within the current service area. Currently, as you may know, the city actually contributes in the form of a transit subsidy to Annapolis transit. At the point of the implementation, if you will have a discussion with them in terms of this unique service, kind of a premium service, and see what kind of financial contribution the county can make. Thank you.

Thank you.

To kind of piggyback on what doctor Dua said about specifically three, which is appears to be all in Anne Arundel County. What we did with the microtransit system was replaced it with two of the underutilized routes, which was the orange and the purple. And the purple did transverse throughout most of what you see there, especially the Best Gate Road and around because we did once upon a time have that yellow route and the gold route that went to Heritage Turnaround and around Best Gate, Rowe Boulevard. So our purple still kind of went around that area. The county does give the subsidies because we do operate a bit into their area, specifically the mall.

So you look at Region 3, it it does appear to be all within the county. And we've had preliminary conversations with Anne Arundel County Department Of Transportation on how we can best serve each other. Our infrastructure here supports it better because we have our own employees, our buses, our maintenance facility, and and the like. And they have a bigger area to try to cover with about as many resources as we have. So they're spread pretty thin.

So, it will be a collaborative effort, but as Doctor. Duwamid mentioned of here, is what we've been used to doing for the last few years. So we would need financial help. I'm sure that they would be willing and able to do that to serve those other areas like the high school, Social Security Administration, and the areas there.

My last question in regards to in putting together this plan, I hear over and over again that Annapolis doesn't have enough density to truly support a robust public transit. Did you do comparisons with other similar municipalities or areas?

Not specifically, but we obviously take into account other areas in Maryland and our firm works nationally even though we're based here in Maryland, so there wasn't any specific peer analysis done of that sort, but we do look, there is a demographic analysis that's included in the plan which actually shows the areas where there is then, and obviously much of the city is for fixed route net system like you have, actually does support that then. You can look at the numbers, it's more the reality of actually where the roads go and where people are. But there is a lot of times we go into a community looking at just density where there is enough, they're not actually operating a fixed route network like you already have in Annapolis, and where we propose that because the density is strong enough for that. You already have that. I think the the challenge in Annapolis is because of just obviously the way the city is laid out and some of those challenges.

So I think that one of the first discussions we had when we started the planning process was this hybrid approach which is now available thanks to the on demand micro transit services. So it's not it's not just operating the RAN response services and it's not operating just fixed route, you can have this combination. And that's the proposal and what's going on now is trying to get the best out of both of those worlds. To get the most out of a fixed route network, and as I mentioned, which is the most cost effective transit to operate while taking into account the the specific nature of Annapolis and also just the mobility needs that people have. So, Otto Moneo, I'm not sure if I actually answered your question, but it's kind of like mix of two is actually what we're we're shooting for.

So we take into account other communities, but really, you you know, a lot of Annapolis is unique from that standpoint.

Okay. I said that that was my last question, but can you talk to the idea behind fixed route is more

It is from the standpoint that you you know what your operating hours are because they're usually pretty consistent, because your hours, if you're running from, you know, 9AM to 6PM, you know that's nine hours a day. You know how many buses you're operating and how many days. So your actual annual operating hours are very well known if you know what your operating cost is. Demand response service is usually more variable in nature because it's more of a one on one type service, and so that's why those costs can be more variable. And usually the productivity, again, we're trying to find a balance too because the productivity is important also, and obviously that if you are doing five trips an hour, but through a fixed route you could do 10 trips an hour, you're doubling your productivity.

Balancing that with the needs that are more specific to people and that's where the on demand services kind of balances that out also. And I'm sorry I'm getting to kind of some transit nerd stuff, but but some of the things that we take a look at from a a, you know, in each community that we work with and trying to find that balance. We're always looking at efficiency and effectiveness and cost. We have to be realistic about that. But bottom line, it comes down to the mobility and transportation that people need and where they need to go. So trying to find that balance.

I appreciate it. Thank you.

Sure.

Let me add to what Dan did indicate. In terms of Annapolis not having the density to support transit, it's a very relative statement because, for instance, when it come to microtransit, most rural areas, that's what they do. They don't have the density. When you are thinking of, say, a train service, yes, we do not have the density to support that kind of transit. So it's very relative.

And chapter four of the plan actually looks at the population density. The idea of the needs analysis is to determine the population clusters where they actually need a public transportation system, and then we designed a fixed route accordingly. So what Dan was saying was that, for the fixed route in some areas, great. For those areas with very low density, your best shot, it would be the micro transit to actually provide those services. There is very interesting article about some kind of reverse commute where we think that in very rich neighborhood, they don't really need the transit.

It's true, but in those neighborhoods also, have many people of lower income group going there to work, cleaning jobs, and stuff like that. So for those people, microtransit will be perfect to transport them to have jobs and then bring them back once they adapt.

One one other note too that I don't think I mentioned was, especially in the discussion about fixed route and the go time, is we we discussed the fact a lot of there was input through the needs assessment about expanded morning, evening, or weekend services then too. And so the the go time on demand services provide the opportunity that maybe to fill those gaps when a time when you don't want to operate actually your fixed route network, that there's just not enough demand to really support that, but people have specific needs. And so the plan actually talks about those in kind of the latter years of the five year process and the plan planning time frame as when you get to that point, maybe the go time to be more of knowledge of that, more experience with that, maybe that's the way of filling some of those gaps, not actually expanding the the green, brown, and red routes that run longer. Maybe that time is the time to actually look at the on demand services. That'll be that would be more efficient and effective then too.

So to kind of, again, always trying to figure out how to best use those those resources then.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank

you, Madam Chair. You indicated that the TDP will basically be the evidence that we have to proceed with with whatever we decide we're gonna do when it comes to transportation. Have we also looked at our comp plan 2024 to see if that's evidence as well that we can utilize to justify what we're doing here?

I know we we

Oh, we did.

And then we did a summary.

I'm trying to get this chapter where we did review various studies, and one of those documents that we did review is the comp plan. In addition, we have two staff on planning and zoning on the advisory group that actually did provide very valuable inputs in terms of demographic and land use and where the major activity centers are. So we did look at that.

Alright. Okay. Thank you so much.

Alderman Savitz?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. There's a lot of good information. I wish I had more time to dig into it, but I have spent at least a few hours trying to look over it. So oh, let's see.

The survey information was really interesting, and both the transit user survey and the community survey. And it it's helping me get my head around how to understand this system because based on the ridership the rider surveys, it was interesting that a majority have income under $40,000. 53 are black, only 7% Hispanic. 66% of the riders have no car. And 10 only 10% of them have two, and that tells me people who oh, and 8088% of the riders do not have access to cars.

What that tells me is our transit system is focused, and I'm not making judgment on this, it's focused primarily on giving people access to mobility who don't have who are mobility limited because they don't have a car. Right? But it kinda relates to the other thing I've been trying to figure out, because as director Moore knows, one of my goals is to figure out a way to get people out of their cars so that we can have a more sustainable way to get around town. And I think so I guess is that an accurate assessment of our system? Our current system, basically?

It is actually the results from both the customer and community survey are very typical of what we see for most transit systems. The customer survey, usually the income is lower. People are more dependent actually on public transit, either for lack of having an available vehicle or disability or age, while the community survey, which is the broader survey from the general public, usually then people's incomes are higher, they usually have access to vehicles, and so they are the demographics are typically pretty significantly different then too. So that is a correct assessment.

And I guess, so one of my questions, and again, I think maybe I'm thinking further down the road because I think this would require a much more significant investment, But how do we make a system that is going to be appealable to the users who have cars? And presumably, that means getting headway down because it looks like our headway is thirty minutes. Presumably, that's getting it down to fifteen, twenty minutes. Our most successful route is Circulator, which has a headway of twenty minutes. Right? And so, yeah, what can what else can we do to this system? And I know there are improvements proposed,

but

are are the changes proposed focused on just making it function better for the target audience, which are the people without cars? Will it help us? Or is it geared towards getting those people who have cars out of them? That makes sense?

Well, let me make a yeah. You are right. If you look at the current riders, those characteristics are correct. You can improve the system. But if you take a look at areas where it's very expensive to park and difficult to park, and there is public transportation, there is always the idea of where do I go to park when I drive my personal vehicle. Classic example is New York City. K. In the case of Annapolis, that is not parking is relatively cheaper. In fact, the first time I came here for interview, I was short when I put in 25¢. I got, like, two hours.

In Downtown Philly, I put in 25¢. I I got seven minutes. So when I'm going to Downtown Philly, I always look for the bus. Whereas in in an airplane, that's not the case. So whilst we can improve the system, this those improvements may not necessarily lead to attraction of those who have the options.

So for us, for instance, it's cheaper for them to park, and parking is easy. So we have to have a package where, for instance, when we were building a human parking garage, it's not there. So people have to park outside. We did provide and improve the downtown shuttle, label it, added EVL, all those convenience. But because the garage wasn't there, people would think twice that, okay, when I come to downtown, it's going to be very hard to park.

So we need to look at what we can do from the transit end and what whatever the local government can also do to basically make sure that, okay, there is a cost for parking. I mean, there is a book about parking. It's not cheap if you look at everything else. So with those kind of pie with that kind of package, we will see choice riders thinking of, okay. When I go to downtown, where should I park?

And if I park, it's a limit of one hour. I I want to go and eat. I can take the bus or the micro transit, relax, eat. Anytime that I'm ready, I just pick up the phone, make a request, and then the bus would be there as promised. So these are the some of the things we need to do. So we are not looking at transit only because no matter what that kind of improvement you will have, it would be still very difficult for people to use it. So far as they think that it's cheaper to get parking around.

Yeah. And I and I think I think, yeah, obviously, I I agree in the sense that I think parking is related to it all. But I I think so, yeah, part of it is is how we manage the parking. Right? But part of it is it's just people are always going to choose to use those parking lots because the transit system is not designed to get people downtown in the most efficient manner possible.

It is very difficult and confusing, again, for people in my ward to get downtown, right, because you have to get a transfer and, you know, it it takes it can take a while, especially if you miss a transfer, right, to get to downtown. So it is it's designed to get people to the places of employment, which, frankly, is not downtown, it seems like. Right? So we're making it easier. If we're trying to appeal people who are are you know, have cars, one, it's like I think, you know, we're we're kind of encouraged well, we're kind of encouraged people to go outside the city to these employment centers to do their shopping and, you know, and touristy things.

Right? And instead of sending them downtown to the heart of our business district. Right? It's not set up to support that business district. And it's not oriented toward tourists. Right? Tourists coming into town are gonna use parking because downtown because the system's not set up to have people park at a satellite lot and jump on the bus or a circulator and get downtown. Right? But it's it's the only route that's focused on getting people around town is the circulator. And guess what?

That's the best performing route in the city. Right? Partly because, I think, the headway, you have two two shuttles running that. But so it does make me wonder, like, well, maybe we should be spending some attention, some planning on planning for that other maybe I don't know if I should call it another system, but it's a parallel system. We're adapting this system to serve more than just the people trying to get to work who need to we obviously need to serve that population trying to get to work, and that's shown by the results. But, again, I'm just wondering, can we adapt this system into something that is multipurpose to serve people getting around town, or do we need to make parallel systems to people around town?

One point with the the GoTime service, obviously, it's it's still in its infancy, and even the on demand services around the country are still in their infancy. So there's not enough extensive data on that, but I would think the fact that that type of service though is going to be more appealing to choice riders because it does follow the Uber Lyft model that, you know, where people can just use their phone and access a trip. Now obviously it would be limited to the certain zones where people would be in and not necessarily from your standpoint about, you know, drawing people in a specific direction, but I would think the fact there will be people who are excuse me, dependent on transit will use the service, but I would think there would be some choice riders too that are to become familiar with it, and if by the fact that they can pay a lower cost than an Uber or Lyft trip, if it's assuming the fact that the response time is similar and the service is similar, that there will we we think there will be some choice riders from that standpoint. But you bring up a good point about the fact that always from a planet transit planning standpoint, we're trying to find that balance where, you know, serving the people who actually are being that need transit and the more people who would need a more expensive expensive transit, not expensive, expensive transit, versus then trying to attract choice riders.

And there's always that balance with those, and really that typically is a community decision about where you want the funding to be segmented to and generated to and trying to find that balance. There have been times where the choice riders in transit planning efforts are the more of the focus, and more so lately, it's been more of the actual people who actually then specifically are transit users and putting more emphasis on that. We typically try to find a balance with that. I don't you're right though, in this case, though, most of these these services, especially the expanded fixed route services would probably be for people who are actually depending on the service. But hopefully, again, the expanded go time excuse me, was gonna say iGo.

The expanded go time service then would actually attract both and actually serve both populations then.

Yeah. The go service is that it's not designed to go between districts, so you're kinda limiting that. Like, example, we can't in Ward 7, that's not gonna help us get downtown.

Right.

It's a different

This is the way the service is proposed. There's still a learning curve even with the current service. And so, again, the great part about the On Demand services is the flexibility and to be able to Yeah. Make those changes. It's just the fact that you don't want to actually set up two separate systems where you have a fixed route service and you have your on demand service and they compete with each other. Yeah. Because people always obviously take the more convenient one from that standpoint. So unless you there's a vast difference in the fare or other things, again, you don't want them competing with each other. You want them complementing each other, obviously, and that's what we're trying to shoot for here.

And on the on the microtransit question, yeah, and one of the one of the figures when you looked at one of the figures that show need transit need, one of the populations, obviously, was in my ward because I have a high number of seniors. And they are not, you know, the fixed route does not serve them, frankly, because, again, they'd have to it doesn't even go all way down to their one of their main facilities, and they'd have to get a transfer again to get downtown, and they're not looking to get to work. They're looking to get around town. Right? The microcerpt transit system, the Annapolis Go, may, but, you know, but, again, that that doesn't necessarily get them downtown.

And I'm I don't know if we have what transit is serving the seniors, one. And two, like, I had some folks last night even say to me that they're just not aware of the Napa SCO system. So is there outreach to some of the seniors to say here's an alternative so you're not mobility limited?

Yeah. Those are really great questions, and we do need to get back out there and take the show back on the road. With our pilot that we're doing right now, we made mention of those two underutilized routes, the orange and the purple. So the purple encompassed all of the rainbow routes during the day. So serving that Ward 7, kind of familiar with, that it would catch it on 7PM until the end, Monday through Saturday, and all day Sunday in holidays.

So when you look at three quarters of a mile from that giant, the Bay Ridge giant, all the way down to maybe Wind Whisper, you can get it and get actually to downtown because that purple remembers encompassing the whole gamut of the services that we had. And this is still in the pilot phase. So breaking it down, how many buses you would need to cover all of that. The purple did run with a purple north and south on a fixed route, and it would take you from the mall to Bay Ridge Giant probably an hour and fifteen minutes. Turn the Purple.

Yeah. The Purple, that's no longer. So now that we have micro transit, you don't you're not making, you know, those 18 to 23 stops in between. They can cut it down in less than half, probably a third of the time, almost, if you have one or two stops in between with others that other riders. But that's one of the things that we found more of the service being needed in the Eastport area, Ward 7, getting to downtown, not just those jobs and, you know, shopping of the mall and all.

So that's what we're kind of looking at, breaking it down into those three zones, but that may not work either, even if we go into three quarters of a mile into the next zone. But right now, we do serve in the evenings and Sundays, and that's not really enough. When we look at the orange during the day, it's where we have, like, right now, up until 07:00, it's just transversing the areas of that service. So that's some of the things that we we can actually look at because we're in a pilot that we just started on June excuse me, July 15. And we're we're finding most of our riders and what we're looking at, what we need to expand just a little bit. But that's really a good point on how do we get them to the downtown area.

Talking about the go time for the purple. One of the look at it. Say that again. Talking about the go time. Yeah. For the weekdays in the evening from seven to about 10:30 and also on Sunday. We do actually monitor the ridership and the frequency. One of the things we have observed is that we have the entire service area as one zone. Sometimes, the request may come in, and it will take a much longer time because the bus may be at Bay Ridge or somewhere else, dropping somebody. Somebody is at another place going to the mall.

So that's the idea behind having the zones and letting letting those microtransit buses operate within the zone. If we we can also have the entire service area as one zone with many more buses so that when the request comes in, there is another bus that can actually meet that request and take that person to wherever that it wants to. So it depends upon the resources we have, how many buses, the service frequency, and can we afford that? Because some cities did try micro transit. It it came out to be very expensive, and they did abandon the idea and then went back to fixed cost.

So as Dan did indicate, this is a planning. I think when it come to the actual implementation, that's where the details come in for us to do to look at what will actually work and what may not work.

So since you since the, you know, the director mentioned the Eastport, I wanna go into some of my other next line of questions, which looking at the draft alternative fixed route system in the presentation. So the and I cracked in my assumption that the solid green is an existing route that is staying. Right? All the dash, they're all the dots are all ones that are changed proposed to be changed. Right?

Yeah. Is that why why is it solid? Is that the existing route? Make sure you use your mic. Sorry. What was what was the answer again?

Okay. On top of that, the solid green, the short one, that is the state shadow. Shutter.

No. No. No. No. That that's a that's a blue Oh, okay.

It's a solid

green going down West Street.

I think that was primarily because there's no changes to that.

Yeah. That's what

the alignment.

Right. Yeah.

What's

that? That route, there was no changes to that.

That was Yeah. That was my question.

That's an

existing route. Yeah. Exactly. Alright. That's what I thought.

The proposed changes were primarily to the red route and some of the aligning of the red route

Right.

To broaden the the service area a little bit. And then, obviously, the blue route is a proposed route, so that's why that's dashed also then.

Yeah. So but I so I wonder throughout changes to this. Because I'm also thinking about how can we get rid of how can we my goals are how can we get people more easily down to Eastport I'm sorry, from Eastport downtown, in particular from Ward 7. And two, you know, how can we make this more efficient? And so, what I'd suggest is, like, looking at for example, if we extend the circulator into Eastport because I'm also trying to address the parking issue in Eastport.

Right? If we extend the circulator to Eastport, for example, to this transit center in Eastport, that makes it a lot easier, more compelling for, for example, my constituents to take, in this case, brown or gold, sorry, the dash gold down to the transit hub and catch the circulator. Now, I know that would probably require adding another circulator shuttle to maintain the twenty minute headway, but having a twenty minute headway or ideally, again, fifteen minutes makes it much more predictable and easier to use. Right? So then I think because then, again, that's one of the things that prevents me from actually taking the bus now downtown is just because it's, again, if it's confusing, if I miss it, do I have to wait half hour for another which I do, to get another bus to get downtown?

So if if you extend a circulator out of shuttle, then you can get rid of the solid green. Alright? And when you get rid of the solid green route, you could bring the dash red. Instead of having a dash red go downhilltop, have dash red go through Eastport downtown. Right?

And then to cover the the gap on Spa Road from the dash red, you could bring the dash blue up Spa Road, and then have it go out West Street, and then down Riva to the high school. Right? Then in then you maintain your coverage on Spa Road, you maintain your coverage down West Street, and and then you can extend the circulator to Eastport, and you can get rid of the whole route, the green route. Just throwing it out there. Where you look, consider.

Definitely, like, one of the things that we did at least with this potential alternative when we presented to the advisory committee was the fact that it is fairly cost neutral. The fact that there's no expanded hours for this, it's basically modifying that. Take out the fact of the new blue route that's on this map, the red red, brown, and green routes. Obviously those those ideas you have obviously sound like they could definitely be taken into account. We could take into account for the plan or actually, again, this is the plan before it's implement implemented, obviously, there would be more outreach of any changes, obviously, of those things too.

So the changes you just proposed, I guess, could be considered as part of that then too. I'll leave up director Moore about how we can handle it from a planning standpoint of making those changes though.

Yeah. That's definitely something that can be taken into consideration of how we, you know, tie those in. You know, we can cost it out and just see what that looks like with headways and all. That's the biggest thing I think you're making mention of because right now, if you have that solid green coming from the mall and it turns around at Monroe Street in Eastport, So the folks at Bay Ridge, like the Giant area, they would change at Monroe where the green does go, and it does take us to the downtown and shoot straight up Main Street back in. But that is a long route.

That is a thirty minute route. So how do we ping pong that a little bit differently by incorporating the magenta circulator going into Eastport and turning around at that transfer point. But those all can be looked at and considered, you know, see what the cost is to do something like that.

Yeah. That yeah. That's I know I don't expect an answer on that today, but yeah. Just throwing it out there for consideration. I do like adjustments to the gold brown proposed. However, I I'd also suggest again, it's who it's the audience we're serving. This gets people to the mall, but then it it you know, think of all the people at the end of the Peninsula, Bay Ridge and and Hillsmere. If they need it doesn't connect them to the transit hub in the county or current. Right? If it's at the mall, then it would.

But if the current Riva Road transit hub, this would not get them to that Riva Road. So

Yeah. That, you know, you're absolutely right with what the county is proposing to do with the transit hub, Harry Truman Drive. We'd really have to make some big adjustments to connect with that hub with all the commuter bus connections and what the county is actually gonna do.

Another quick suggestion would be to work with the state to connect the state route, that blue, with the county's gold. County's gold runs close to West Annapolis, but there's no way for West Annapolis to get from gold to the blue if they wanted to, like, get the trans transfer there to get downtown. I don't know if it's amenable to that or not. Just a few more, I think. Well, I mean, one of the so one of the big questions, you have a lot of stuff posed.

Are any of these sorry. And, like, looking at the conceptual budget and and the plans you have here, summary sheet, Are any of these being proposed in the fiscal year twenty six budget? Or are they incorporated into that? Or are these gonna come in future fiscal years?

Yeah. These haven't been incorporated in our FY twenty six budget. Because we were just coming towards the end as we're coming towards ours as well. Yeah.

Okay. I was just curious. And if we wanted to because you said part of the reason for this GDP is to provide where'd you put that? Like, provide a, yeah, basis for future federal state funding applications. So if we do decide to fund more for you know, to help try to build a system that also serves some of these other user groups. Can we amend the TDP in the future? You know, say, two years down the road, vote on something, have it amended, and have that be factored into this any kind of applications to the state?

Yeah.

It's kinda like the comp plan.

Because we

do that with comp plan.

Yeah. Because basically, this is a roadmap to kinda look at an idea of where where we should go. The conceptual idea of what was given to us by the stakeholders, shareholders, and the focus groups. It was an idea. We're trying to grab the ideas of all the meetings that we had going back to June 2024. So definitely can take a look at it in a planning perspective of what makes sense and what we wanna tweak here, but kind of the roadmap to give us some idea of some of where we can go. And we will probably need to tweak it a bit along the way.

And do like the I do like the direction you're going. I know a lot of questions and thoughts on it, but that's just some

Yeah.

In the grant interested in transit.

In the grant application, there is a section for proposed expansion. So you take the concept from here and you refine it. They will like you to provide more additional information, for instance, an estimated ridership and things like that. And then you request the funding. So you don't really have to kind of amend the plan.

You take the idea at the project level. You actually expand on that, get into details, refine it, and then put it in the request for funding. The other thing is that every five years, we do revisit this particular plan as a way of looking at whether the existing services needs to be changed. You did ask about, the fact that, down the road, if we need to make some changes to the service, I think you used the word adapt. Yes.

I did wrote it down. Yes, you can. And I will give you an example. If you recall, prior to 2010, almost all the buses were stopping at Spire Road, forcing many people to transfer. So I was new in transportation.

In that TDP, we reviewed the existing services as we have done in this one, determined that that particular system has uplift its usefulness. And we did propose the current route. So as we review and update the plan, there become a time that the current system may not serve the Annapolis residents, visitors, and workers very well, and therefore, we have to adapt again. So we have been doing this adaptation for some time. There is no end in sight in terms of when you have the next one so far as we keep on reviewing the existing services.

And we can also do it during, say, two years from now. If there is absolutely a need to make changes to that, we can do that. And then we provide a justification, and they move forward with that. So we have been adapting. This is just a road map in terms of where we are going. And if there is a need to make the changes very quickly, we can collect additional data to justify it and move forward with that.

Yeah. The details each year will be in the annual application to the state. And as you mentioned, in fact, that's for the federal and state funding, but there is nothing to keep the city then from obviously, there is a certain amount that has to be part of the match for the the federal and state funds, but obviously the city can go way past that in expanding services then too. This plan is is primarily targeted towards ensuring the fact that the federal and state funding is obtained, but again it does not limit the city in any way from the amount of funding or expanding services or moving up some of the proposed recommendations to earlier years then too if the funding's available. It's just, again, requirement that the state has in place because they administer the federal and the state funds then.

Right. I just have one last burning question I almost forgot. Because last time you were here, I asked for updated density information. Your density chart caps at 2,000 people per square mile. But, again, if you look at our population per square miles, it's actually 5,500 people per square mile.

I would like to and I thought you said last time you had the more detailed information to go up to 6,000 or whatever density so we can see the because right now, the entirety of downtown and a large part of our city is all just that shade red for 2,000 plus Right. When I think it is really helpful when we're looking at other forms of transportation, transit, to know what parts of town have that density of more than 2,000.

So I

guess, do you have that information? You said you have that information, so what what do we need to do to get that?

Four, and the and the population profile, I have to check exact numbers here, but there is discussion of population density. We can also calculate population density persons as tracks What

page are

you on?

Looking at 4.4 dash two. Oh, you don't have oh, you have a couple of the plan?

We we can go back. And if there's not the analysis in there, we can go back and look at the numbers in more depth. And I'm sorry that we didn't get that to you before, but we can go back and look at that. I think I mentioned last time I work with my younger, smarter coworkers who can analyze that data and pull that data out then too.

Yes. So that's the one on page four four dash three, and you'll see most videos that 2,000 plus. Yeah. I would like to see that

for playing I

Yeah. Thank you, madam chair. One one, quick question, and I'm looking at the word adapting. Would that be considered when we had, I guess it was two or three years ago when we did the renovations for Woodside Gardens and a lot of the residents had to move temporarily down to some of the hotels off of Riva Road down by the Social Security Administration. Was that a situation that we had to adapt or what was that what was that called?

No. Transit service stayed the same when we made those changes to Wood Newtown Twenty. That corridor was still being serviced by the yellow, and at that time, it was the county. But our services coming around where Newtown 20, the Brown and all, still ran the same way, But they were in the hotels, as you mentioned, Admiral Catheryn and probably River Road, some of them going to the high school. So the service then is the same as it is right now, with the exception of, Go Time microtransit.

So even when there was the Woodside Gardens renovation, it was the same situation?

Yes. Yep. No changes have been made. Major changes have been made, since the last CDP with the exception of the, the orange and the purple, you know, with this pilot of last summer.

Thank you. When

you do talk about adaptation, we are thinking of the way the system has been designed, and over time, they don't work very well. So, we look for changes to improve it. Microtransit actually is one of the recommend the the goal time that we have actually is one of the recommendations in the last TDP. So we realized that the orange route, for example, was a very low performing route. So, basically, we have to make some changes, and we use that as an example or as a pilot. So that is the sense that we use the word adapt when it come to the route design and restructuring.

Alright. Thank you.

I think that's all the questions. Appreciate your time coming and presenting, and I know that we're gonna all dive a little bit deeper as we move towards passing the legislation.

Okay. And as promised, we'll get you the information, before the end of the by Friday to email all three of you the questions that you have. For having us.

Thank you.

You so much. Thank you very much.

Yeah. I I guess just second that, but I'm gonna discuss a little bit. Because I would like to see some of those changes and at least personally before I vote on it because I really do think it's valuable information to get. So if you could look at the information on the density and then and I know it's just a draft anyway, but take a look at those other potential route changes that I mentioned. Otherwise, I think it's good to go.

With some of the proposed changes that Alderman Savage might be making, how does that affect the timeline that we have to vote on this or accept this?

I I think where we are now, it was introduced first reader on the fourteenth. So now we go to a few other committee, I think tomorrow, Economic Matters. The next council in early late May will be second reader. So we'll get our questions our answers to your questions this week. But that's, I think, where we are right now. We're right in the middle before you would make, a vote or make a decision on adopting as presented.

Would that require possibly another meeting? And I'm just throwing this out. With the, Annapolis Transportation Committee that we already have, or does that trigger some other mechanisms or people we have to contact? I don't I'm I'm just asking the

question.

Yeah. Chair, I'm gonna defer to our office of

law Mhmm.

If that would, require another meeting if, some changes have been made or being re requested through the CDP process?

I think it would depend on Jessica Craze from the Office of Law. I think it would depend on what the changes were. If there's if there are substantive changes, then they would have to probably be another meeting to get those reviewed. It would be the extent of the changes provided.

So it would have to go through other committees as well. I don't know about the stakeholders, and those folks that weighed in.

Again, if it's something substantive that is gonna change what was already looked at and reviewed, it would be beneficial to have everybody look at it again.

Have everybody look at that? Yes. Thank you.

Just a clarification for Alderman Salvage. The population density maps behind that is the table. I'm not sure at what geographic level they did the population density analysis. So what you are wondering is how would that actually affect any part of the report apart from looking at the details behind the population density map?

Sorry. I didn't quite understand.

Okay. So we do have population density map on page four dash three.

Mhmm.

And you want to see the tables in terms of which specific areas in the city. The GIS person is not here, so I'm not sure at what level of, details that he used, either at the census track level or at other, a type of geographic level. So if you get that information, the question is how is it going to impact other recommendations in the report in in your mind if you get that one?

If if I get that data Yeah. What what was the other part of the question?

You get the density data, how is it going to affect the recommendations in the plan?

Oh, well, I don't think it's gonna impact the rest of the plan. I'm I'm thinking in the future as far as I mean, it may. Right? Because it but, again, I think if we're trying to seek if we're trying to serve the densest population or even in some of the maps you have figures, you you show the populations that have the greatest need, I think in order to correlate that with actual density and where the routes fixed routes gonna have the most success as far as ridership, then I think we need to drill down. I just I think you need to go lift that cap beyond 2,000 so that we can see the more detailed information.

So, you know, it potentially could have impact, I suppose, on some of your other proposals. But then again, I think it's it may it may not.

I'll defer to to Director Moore, but I just want to make sure that we we're clear about the things that we need to do to make sure for the next steps for the adoption of the plan. With that, the data, with that demographic analysis, that's something we could provide outside the planning process to you, you know, and to the the committee, or is it something you want us to actually make that modification actually in the plan for the final plan, then we can actually drill down more into those details with that. Either way, or both actually, I guess, too. Just wanna make sure we're clear on on that about how we should proceed as we try to work with you all towards a final plan then.

Well, mean, my opinion is I think it should get changed, because it as it is even, I I just think it's flawed figure because it does not drill down. It's just the mostly just one color. It doesn't give us the information we need. So from that standpoint, I think it should get changed in plan. Yeah. And I don't know what needs to get done to get that done, but again, I did ask this many months ago, Yeah. So

I'm sorry that we yeah. We I'll 'll go back and take a look at that. And again, I'm sorry that we didn't respond to that then too. I know that through the demographic analysis, these are the numbers that we're usually looking at, but again, we'll go back and I'm not an expert on how far we can drill down, but we can drill down as far as we can, and I think last time we did report that we could do that. So what we can do then is, I don't know, again defer to director Moore, if there would be an updated draft plan then too, we'll make that modification.

Because this draft plan isn't one that's actually been approved by the advisory committee from that standpoint, so we would incorporate that change actually into an updated draft plan. And then back to the changes to the routes also that you proposed, the rate right now the the recommendations include like that cost neutral one that I mentioned. So what you want us actually, we'll do more analysis of the ones that you mentioned, which again will include probably some cost additions and include that actually in the next iteration also. Then those are the two major things. I'll make sure of the fact that we we respond appropriately to that then.

That that sounds good to me. So what the one you have in the presentation, this is the cost neutral one?

It includes the cost neutral one because the cost neutral is the revisions to the the brown, red, and green routes, which doesn't increase that. This this map also shows that the proposed blue route, which obviously there would be a cost related to that.

Okay. So, alright. Well, I guess clarity might be needed on that then in the future as far as a figure that shows the cost neutral plan, and then here are your add ons. Right? Because I what if I'm understanding your calculation, it's it's cost neutral except the dash blue, which would be added extra.

You know

I know it's not before it's not before the council right now anyway as far as the in the budget. Right?

It exactly. Again, this is a conceptual budget. It's in the plan. The first year was the restructure route network, which was mentioned as cost neutral. It sounds like there would be potentially another alternative or recommendation included that would show these changes then to the potential route then. But director Moore, I should probably not speak for

you. Yeah.

If you're going to add something new to year one apart from realignment of the three or rainbow routes, and then that will affect the budget. Currently, the way that is proposed in year one, looking at the table, basically, is real alignment is not going to add additional drivers, no additional hours. Apparently, even in terms of the root land, they they it may be a little bit shorter because it doesn't go around. It keeps straightforward. So for year one, cost neutral, our current or proposed budget for FY '26 is covered up.

If it comes to year two and we want to implement some of the changes that will have budget or fiscal implications, then we would do that. In year two, any new thing that we want to do, actually, at the project level, we would do a much more detailed analysis. For instance, the density index that we want to see are in the in the text, it talks about density as at the census track level, which you can get the data in the form of a table. So year two, we want to see additional improvements from concept to something realistic. At that time, every detailed information that you will need in order to come out with project level recommendations to be able to implement that, we will take care of that, including actual cost estimate for that.

So that's why I was asking that given the current plan, it's a concept. Year one is cost neutral. It's just realignment, so we don't have to do a lot of thing in terms of, from fiscal point of view, with the exception of, public outreach that these changes are coming. You have to be aware that the bus will no longer stop here to be here. Year two, if there are substantial changes that actually will indicate increase or expansion of the service, a new service that has that will have budget implications.

At the project level, you'll be able to give some actual numbers to reflect what how many additional drivers you will need, how many more buses you will need, what will be the estimated annual radarship, miles that will help determine the, maintenance implication of these buses. They all go into the project level planning. And, we will have opportunity to talk about that.

Thank you, madam chair. What's the what are the implications when it comes to grant funding as far as, any any modifications that we make to the plant? Or are there any?

As I mentioned earlier, if in a grant application, there is a recommendation to expand service or introduce a new service, you have to justify there are additional there is additional information you have to provide, and then your request is in the grant application. Again, it's a request. Quite remember, one for the JAG route. We had to go and defend why we want to provide job access reverse commute route from Annapolis to New Carrollton, back in 2010, 2011. So that is a classic example of where we go from the plan to actual implementation and what it means in the grant application.

So whatever we take here, we want to expand it, we put it in the grant application. We justify it. We will cost it. They will take a look at that. Occasionally, we have to meet with them face to face, to answer questions. And depending upon funding availability, they may or may not fund it. And in the grant application, the steep portion will be estimated so that it will be reflected in our budget.

Thank you. Again, I wanna stress the fact that, again, we wanna present numbers in the plan, but they are entirely conceptual in that standpoint. The details then are actually in the annual application process because that time the system, the city knows exactly what they're applying for and a much better handle on the cost of that than to relate it to that. Excuse me. These, especially with the micro transit services, are projected based on what's known right now, but there's still a lot of information that's being, I guess, incorporated now during this learning process with the new service.

So these these numbers will change. They are very conceptual. At the same time, we want to present in the plan an idea about what how much these these new services and expansions expansions would would cost both for the city standpoint but also for the city for excuse me, for the state standpoint too.

Based on your work with the county, is there anything we need to do, should do, shouldn't do to comport with whatever you came up with with them?

Again, I think there's a good working relationship now. I think that it's it's just vital in the future, and again, and this is not anything anybody would, you know, clearly obvious, is the fact that just meeting together because, and with the state also, because there's so many services in the Annapolis area that are all interrelated that impact people's mobility. And so I know that director Moore meets with the county and there's regular discussions, but what we highlighted and we kind of focused on and reinforced in the plan was the fact that those discussions with the county and with state are are extremely vital, particularly from the fact that, you know, again, with Annapolis, with the transit system not being just within the city's boundaries of actually going beyond that. And one of the the blue route that's proposed was based on a lot on the input that we received from the advisory committee for services that actually go beyond the city boundaries because people are looking at where they want to go, and that's the feedback that we got. So that's again why we just reinforce that.

I think there's a good working relationship now, but I think it's one that's vital for and essential for mobility in this area moving forward then.

I guess according to what miss Jessica said, if it's substantial substantive, I'm sorry, then we'd have to go well, we have to go to the county as well to to find out what the integration or overlap or anything concerning them?

Yeah. It it's possible. As we as Dan mentioned, Kwaku and I have met with the leadership of, Anne Arundel County on a regular basis. Their or their translation and their planning folks to figure out how we can best serve each other. Because there is that invisible boundary of where, you know, that's theirs, this is ours, but for you and I traveling, you know, we use Route 2. You know, has that dividing line where it becomes a county? People see the mall as in Indianapolis, but, yes, it is in the county. So, you know, going in there, they do help us out a little bit as they're, you know, so much bigger. But we would like to look at things. They've actually asked us to look at things with our micro transit.

I can't say how we've been so successful, but we have a model that they would like to emulate. So they have some other planners that are working on some things along those lines. So we did get off, hit the ground running with a good model with our go time, and how we've made it in chewable chunks. And remember, as a pilot, we keep expanding a little bit more, you know, that elasticity, how far much more can we go before we don't meet our our goal. One of the things Alderman Savage did mention of about, you know, we talk about headways, thirty minutes.

That is a goal around the country of where you want to be. If you can be less than that, people will ride more. So, with our go time, from the time you make that reservation, our goal is twenty minutes. So, from the time you make that reservation to the time we can pick you up. So, sometimes it's as little as twelve or eight or nine, but it could be up to 25. So, we start adding more and more, that's gonna require another vehicle, another driver that could cost a little bit more. So, when we look at, you know, Alderman Savage, you know, the data request that you're asking for, the table of population density at the census level, the track census track level, we can get that, you know, per per per mile, I guess, what we're looking at. You know, what is the census data for that's given?

Yeah.

That's pretty much what you're asking?

Yeah. And yeah. And and just one last thing since you might be adding some additional information. I I would really like to see some kind of at least at least a paragraph talking about senior population. You do have well, you do have a paragraph talking about the senior population, but no discussion about how to better serve them.

I think I think many of them are along the routes, but in particular, again, those populations, seniors, that are called out in the need in the need figure that are not served by transit. Now you're saying, I think that they potentially take the Neapolis GO, but the ones in particular at the end of Edgewood Road are outside the Neapolis GO radius. And so that currently is not a solution for them. So I need to go back to my constituents because I have had, you know, requests as far as making sure they have the ability to get around town. So is there a solution for them that we can work into this plan that I can show them we are we we hear you, you know, there may be some ways in the future we can better serve you and here's how here's the kind of funding it would require and programming.

But right now, it's not really addressing. It's identifying it but it's not.

When you look at industry standard as far as ADA population and all, it's that three quarter of a mile of a fixed route stop. That's really kind of a guide, and we've gone a little bit greater than that in some areas, you know, up to maybe a mile and a quarter to get, you know, other areas like when you you're going east on Forest Drive, make that right on Spa Road. There's another, you know, developments further down. It may not be senior dwellings, but our ADA population is starting to grow as we did our community events and going out and being able to sign up a subscription service, how we can better help out. But if we expand that, you know, in increments of just a quarter mile or half a mile, what does that cost incrementally to get more of the population as you just described further down Bay Ridge?

Because we might be right on the cuff. It's not like we're going four miles further. But maybe that quarter mile may encompass more than what we're thinking. And

I do take that back to certain because I do your proposed draft bikers transit system, I think, would help address that. But but, again, I think that should be called out in the report as draft transit system will help address and increase the coverage to help the senior population. I think that should be because I think, like, again, I think you are moving in that direction. You just need to be more clear with it.

I have another question. The the transportation hub at the Annapolis Mall, how does this all integrate with that?

Let me follow-up with all the by the senior population. We unless you are doing a statewide special transportation program, that targets seniors. And the count the city does is not qualified for that fund. It's a county level. So the reason why we look at the seniors is that most of the time, they they they depend on our transit system, so we do the best we can.

The senior transport population is not anonymous with ADA service in the sense that the ADA is not the same as the ADA service because the fact that you are a senior does not qualify you to use the ADA service. The ADA is with people with disability who will not be able to make it to a bus stop. So unless the city, in its own interest, decide, like, what the STEP program does that we have seen, yes, we want to target them, you can make trip request. Typically, we don't design it specifically for a senior population. If we look at it in terms of the area where the need will be and as much as we can, reach out to them.

Perhaps the closest solution to that would be the micro transit, the way that we finally will implement it to be able to basically serve these people who can make the request for for their bus to go to their communities. Otherwise, the senior population as a whole is not a specific target for the fixed route or for the ADA. The ADA is more for people with some disabilities who cannot make it to the bus stop.

Think there was the question about the mall, I think, then too. It's Okay. From auto woman.

Okay. The the mall, we see the mall as a trip destination where people within the city actually will go there to shop to

No. I'm talking about the county or state transportation hub that's supposed to be on the Best Gate roadside of the mall.

Can be

And that the state county partnership? Yeah. It's supposed to be a transportation station hub?

Right. That's being put together by the in Arundel County. It's conceptual. They were gonna go on the other side, Best Gate Road side, west side of the mall, but with mall management, it just decided to go where off of off Harry Truman. I think they have a lot of their preliminary stuff done, I'm not sure when they're gonna get shovels and ground. That could be more than three years, and it could be not ready until our next DDP. But we'll see where we are and where they are in the process of the next thirty six to sixty months. But it definitely won't be in the next two years, but we can follow-up with Anne Arundel County, of their timeline.

Okay. Just wanna make sure that we're all part of that system as well.

We definitely wanna be. Yeah. We'll have to be. That'd for sure. Okay.

Thank you.

I think that's all for the question. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Yes.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your time today. I believe that, that brings us to the end of our agenda because we do not have a Board member here. Is there a motion to adjourn?

So moved. Second.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye. All opposed?

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