Transportation Committee - Regular Meeting

Good evening. We're about to begin our meeting for the Transportation Committee. Call to order. I have done that. Roll call. I have on. And

Alderman Savage.

Present with us today. At this time we have approval of the agenda.

Madam Chair I would like to make a motion to approve the agenda.

I'll second that motion.

Thank you.

We

have to take a vote at this time. All in favor of approval of the agenda. Aye. Aye. Any nays? Thank you. It has been approved. Now we have election of the chairman.

I would like to nominate all the women Alsop Johnson to be the chair of the transportation committee.

I second that motion.

And I accept. All in favor. Aye. Any nays? Okay. It was approved that I am the chairperson for this transportation. Yay. Okay. Now we'll have our general discussions. First, we have the speed camera program.

So the representative for that can come forth, please, and discuss the speed camera program. Before you begin, can you just introduce yourself, whatever I could please, at this time?

Good afternoon. It's captain Thacker with patrol division of the Annapolis Police Department.

Sergeant Wayne from traffic safety Annapolis Police Department.

And captain Amy Miegeth and administrative services captain Annapolis Police. Thank

you. You may begin.

Good afternoon and thank you, Captain Thacker. In reference to the camera program, just some general conversation. In September, we went through a shift in the police department and Sergeant Prince Wang became the point person in our traffic safety unit that will be leading and being the point person for this possible expansion of the camera program. He has some basic information. He's becoming our residential expert at many of these issues.

Captain McGuiz and I have had a lot of conversations about this up to and including, and I think we probably need to talk about it, and the city law office is also involved in this, is actual contract with one of the vendors that the city of Annapolis has gone into this transactional type business relationship and that would be Red Speed. And through all of the contracts that were available, I think that our city law office indicated on some, fair to say, some deficiencies or timing mechanisms inside of these contracts. Bottom line to all of that, and Amy can elaborate a little bit more in detail. Our city law office and Red Speed are in contact with one another and there's going to be a meeting I think within either at the end of this week possibly early next week to kind of hammer out some final details relative to contractual nature between the city and our vendor. Suffice to say where we are with the expansion of the actual program itself.

Red Speed has been out and Sergeant Wang can elaborate a little bit more on this. They have conducted some data studies. They did one phase of it. They have also finished a second phase and I think they are in a position where they're actually crunching the numbers, I guess you'd say. And we're waiting for a final report back from them. It was pre designated through community input. We were looking at four locations. Correct me if I'm wrong. West Street, about the 1,400 block of West Street which is near the public library. Edgewood Road down at the bottom end of the city.

Tyler Avenue and then also right out in front of the office building here on Duke Of Gloucester. So four general areas that the Red Speed was doing data analysis for, and like I have said, they're in the process of just trying to put together the final report so we can take a

look at that. Could you please repeat the four roads? I apologize.

Do you have the actual

100 miles? Right. So it would be West Street.

It's depending on where the location would be. We're looking at between the library and the light at Russell Street. So it would go in that area. The next location would be Tyler Avenue. It would be around Tyler Avenue and Stephanie Lane. So kinda in the middle of Tyler Avenue. And then third one would be Edgewood Road and Brakewater Drive near that area. And then Duke of Gloucester would be out here. Be mainly towards the end by Saint Mary's.

Thank you.

And so can you explain this, so the data analysis is being done by the contractor and that is to specifically look at these locations for presumably for potential speed camera installation, Right? So you're awaiting that study until we take the next, if we take the next step. Is that correct? Correct. So they've done one study so far. One the numbers seemed a little irregular. So I asked them to do a second study just to make sure we have a better estimate of the number

of violators in each location. So that's what we're waiting on right now from RitzBeat. Last contact with them, they were having new equipment to measure the speeds. And that's where right now we're waiting on those results.

Okay. And so the study includes all four potential locations? Correct. And is that study a requirement coming from the state? Or is that just considered a best practice to get the data to justify the installation of the cameras? Right.

We look at, you know, past crash data from the year from the year before and look at where where most of our accidents occur. And then also from officers' experience where we find the most speed violators in the city in these locations are probably the most frequent areas where speeding occurs.

Okay. And so I guess at some point when you get the data back, could there be a situation where it shows that there aren't enough speeders to justify?

Goes into that So red

speed, yes. So they do

have a number that they're kind of looking for also. Like I said they're a contractor for us.

Do large return on Correct. So

they maintain and do installation and kinda do a monthly report on all these cameras. So the you know, it's an investment for them also. So they do have a number that they're looking for when it comes to number violations during the time period.

So part of our negotiation with them can be if we have, because Sergeant Wang mentioned that the areas that we focus on are the ones where we have the most crashes and speeding. But that's not always the case. We also take community input. And so places like Duke of Gloucester, which over the years they've done numerous speed studies and there's not a lot of speeding that goes on on Duke. But there's a high perception of speed.

We know there's a big drive to get a speed camera on Duke. And if we can negotiate with Red Speed that they'll put a camera where they're not expecting to get as many speeders to recoup their costs for managing the program for us, then that's what we'll try to negotiate so that we can, you know, the community is gonna continue to want a camera there. And if we can put one there, then that's something. But it won't alleviate the need for other ongoing enforcement that might be needed on Duke.

I guess what are the, well a couple questions. The, do you have a general cost? How much does it cost to install the camera versus how much does it cost them to administer?

So we have not had a new camera since 2017. And that was a failed effort to add one on Farragut. Before that it was March 2013 was the last time we had a new camera installed. So I have no experience with how much this costs or anything like that. This is not something that anyone at the department anymore has any experience with.

Okay. And do you or maybe the law office know like what the provisions in the contract as far as how the locations are set? Because how much of that is going to be up to the department, how much is up to the consultant, and how much ability does the council have to be able to say, look, constituents want one on whatever street and we're gonna add that to the budget and get it funded. So like, what does the contract say about the placement?

That it's part of negotiations. That it's not a given that they will put cameras wherever we want them. They have to be within policy and then they have to be also in a way that makes sense for them as a business. There's no provision that says that we can force them to put cameras where they don't wanna put cameras.

Yeah, that seems odd. Because I mean we ultimately are the ones who allocate the funding for the program, right? It's not up to

the There is no funding for the program.

So this is all going to be paid for through the

It's paid for by the fees that they charge per ticket. You know, they get a part of the violation.

Were those fees set presumably by us?

They're in the contract.

I mean, yeah, mean, presumed they're in our fee schedule somewhere.

You you, the council, set a fee schedule for the speed cameras last year. You increased the fines.

Right.

Yeah.

Right. And so that's set by code.

Yes.

But okay. Alright, well I'll take a break here. But it just sounds a little frustrating because we've had another bad case where a recent contract we've had which removed a lot of our controls to be able to do things as far as

Right. Like captain And

I'd hate to have the same thing happen with speed cameras.

Right. And like captain Thacker said, we're kind of in the middle of something with them. With the office of law, I don't think it'd be fair to dissect the contract while we're in the middle of looking at it and figuring out what the what's happening. So I can't really speak to that part of it right now, but it is in the works with the Office of Law.

Okay.

Thank you. Now we'll have a question by Alderman Shandermott.

Thank you Madam Chair. So the reason we have to go through these studies and negotiations is because we pass off these enforcements to a contractor. We're not handling that internally. Is that a correct understanding?

The implementation, the actual work to go out and install the camera, the management of the cameras themselves, whether they need servicing, They provide all of that equipment upfront. They take a they take a cut of all the fees that are assessed to all the violations. The role that sergeant Wang and the traffic safety unit do is they actually get a snapshot of the violation. And they then, as sworn officers, look at the violation and confirm that it's a violation to make it something can be mailed out to the owner of the vehicle.

Okay. So essentially the reason we're going this route is we don't have to pay any upfront costs. We only make money. We don't lose money in installation maintenance. But as a side effect of that we give the contractor a lot of authority in where they choose to put it.

Well, we haven't so like I said, we haven't had any new cameras since 2017. And that was Farragut Road, which was at a community request. But it also created a community uproar when it was placed there and subsequently was taken down. It really wasn't in an area that should have had a camera because it's not a school zone on Farragut. But that was the decision that was made at the time.

So from that experience I would say obviously we had them put a camera where there was not a good spot for a camera. So I don't think we're gonna have an issue getting cameras in the areas that we've pinpointed. I think until yeah. We have these contract issues to work out, but I think until we have a problem, it's we're speculating that we're gonna have a problem.

Okay but is my understanding though that as part of this deal we don't pay upfront costs but the contractor gets to decide where to put it. Is that a correct understanding?

No, mean we're asking them to look at these locations. So we're deciding to tell them where to put them. It's not like they're coming to us with locations they want to put cameras.

But do they have the ability to say no we don't want to because we don't think this will be profitable?

According to our contract right now, yes they do.

Okay. But we are working on renegotiating that part, correct?

We are working on the contract.

Okay. So I guess what I want to know is what would be the potential costs per year if we were to take over it directly? I understand wanting to try and find a way to do this efficiently. We want to watch out for taxpayer dollars. We want to try and find ways where we can do this with a financially sustainable responsible manner.

But also being cognizant of if a contractor decides we don't want to do it here because we don't find it profitable. That does put us in a bit of a lost amount of control. So you have any idea what it would cost if we just had entire direct control of the program ourselves?

I don't. I don't know another agency in Maryland that has that runs it themselves, their program. Montgomery County, Anne Arundel County, PG County, Baltimore City. They all have companies that they call in to manage this for them. Because it's the camera installation and maintenance. There has to be monthly regular calibration. Those people have to come to court if there's issues challenging the camera. Then there's something goes wrong. You have to have the person who calibrates it has to be able to fix it. Then you have to send out the citations for it.

So it requires a system where you're sending out mass mailings. So it's a whole it's not just a job for one person. It would be a whole system of doing it. And we outsource a lot of like bill pay things because they are kind of complicated. So I'm happy to look and see if there's any agencies in Maryland that do run their own program and how they do it. I'm certainly you know.

I would be curious if any do but I had not taken into account all of the other logistics about that. So I am glad you explained that out to me.

Yeah I mean I would love for us to do more ourselves. And even if, I think one of the ways the city can look at making things more economical is really trying to get Anne Arundel County to see us as an integral part of the county. And when they are doing something so like Anne Arundel County's contract, they piggybacked off Montgomery County's contract with the speed cameras. And they didn't call us ask what our cameras, how we run our cameras. It's like they could've, we could've used the same company and then maybe there'd be a benefit in having a county wide system.

But regardless I just think it's something to keep in mind that when we do things and only think of whether it's the county or us, we sometimes need to think. And I'm not, you know, I try to that.

Are we using the same company as Anne Arundel County?

No they use a different company.

Okay. So I guess for me the million dollar question is when do we think we can put these cameras down? I know Tyler Avenue is not on my ward but I have a constituent who works and assists as a crossing guard there. She less than gently yells at me during a campaign time about how there were speeders and we weren't doing enough. Well honestly I couldn't exactly disagree beyond, hey we're working on it with cameras. So I told her we were having this meeting to get an update. And can I give her good news or am I gonna get yelled at when I call her?

We completely understand. We know that you want to be able to report back to your constituents a time frame. The best answer that I can give to you right now without we really don't know. So the contractual aspect needs to be taken in-depth look at when we get the data back and then conversations with Red Speed themselves about possible installation to the four locations that we just talked about, maybe three. There is a possibility that we could ask them to look at other locations that we have, other crash data to go look at those locations too.

Then it would be the implementation phase. So that's like the engineering aspect. Have to have a power source. Have to be able to get the permits to be able to put them in. And where are they physically going to be with line of sight? There's a process to that. That's an amount of time. And then finally the full rollout. So I can't give you a phased in exact time. And I don't even want to speculate and say a goal would be within six months or a year.

But as soon as we efficiently can get everything in order in specificity to make sure that it's correct. Again, if we look back at 2017 and the implementation or the rollout wasn't done correctly, I think it's fair to say that that caused problems and we don't want to revisit that.

I'm glad you mentioned the process of installation and requiring permits, etc. Would you be able to get us and work with Public Works on what our code requires for permits and where we can find ways to streamline that process to install speed cameras. Because I want when we finally approve these locations and get everything ready, I want that to go as quickly and smoothly as possible without long drawn out meetings, long planning commission hearings hypothetically, board of appeals hearings hypothetically, and then three months in the planning and zoning office. I want us to be able to get a permit that day and be able to plug it in within a week. So if you wouldn't mind teaming up with public works and figuring out what permits and processes needed and where we can find some streamlining, would greatly appreciate that.

Sure. I just wanted to mention, so three of the four locations are city streets. So we don't need any kind of permits for those. Oh. As long as we can get public works, which we're working with also to they're gonna come out and make sure once we are ready for installation implementation, we'll have a member of works come out, one of their engineers, just to make sure the location is is viable for you know, to make sure it's within code. Okay. The only location that we do need permission is West Street, which is a state highway. But also working with public works, he has knowledge on that process to get permits.

Okay. Thank you.

Well, wanna ask a question at this time. Do you are there a certain amount of cameras we can have in the city? Or if if I find by me being new, if I find an area that I would like to issue maybe getting a speed cameras because do I notify you guys or how how do I go about?

You can. The limitations on speed cameras deal with the location. So the state law has specified that cameras can be put in school zones and those cameras are operated eight to eight? Six to eight? Sorry.

Six a. M. Till eight p. M.

Yeah, six a. M. To eight p. M. Monday through Friday. And then they recently expanded the location to also include residential areas where the speed limit is 35 miles per hour or lower. And for it to be a residential area, it has to have I believe 300 feet, yes, 300 feet of residences. So it's not how it's zoned. So it's not has anything to do with the city zoning. But it has to do with 300 feet of roadway with residences along it.

So that does somewhat limit where we can put a camera. And then the citations only are issued if someone's going at least 12 miles over the speed limit. So if someone is complaining about speed on their street and it's a 25, you know most people are still going under 35. It's just they, it's you know. But we're happy to do speed enforcement.

So Sergeant Wang is the sergeant in charge of traffic safety. So if you pass along any complaints about that that those type of things to captain Thacker, he can make sure that both the traffic safety unit and the patrol officers do enforcement Okay. You know in those areas. Okay. And we always say the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

So like you know if we get a complaint they'll do like like Tyler and Stephanie's is a is a frequent place where our traffic safety goes out and does enforcement. Because the elementary school on Jan Wall and people cut through between Forest Drive and Hilltop. And regularly. Other areas they may only go out for a couple weeks after they get a complaint. And then they'll kind of lay off. And so then the resident will be like, well they were doing it and now they stopped. It's just because of you know they're always moving different locations.

Okay, thank you very much. Is there anything else? Aldman's side of the chest.

Yeah, thank you. Just a few follow-up points. So was this contract something that was put out to bid?

At the time, yes.

Okay. And how many people, how many firms did we have actually get back?

I have no idea. That was twenty thirteen. That's how long we've had this contract.

The contract is that old?

It's been

Don't they

expire at same It's been amended and and such over the years. I've not been involved in any of the renewals. But now we're working on it.

Yeah. Mean

I believe it was last updated. Correct me if I'm wrong, it was 2022 was the last like Major

update.

Major update. In my experience, in the county, contracts typically don't extend last that long. This isn't directed at you, I'm just off to, I think I'm gonna ask our purchasing department because that's really odd to have a contract that old for this kind of thing.

I think in any case it's an issue that you know with a lot of different personnel changes and things like that. So we're working on it.

So does law office know or you perhaps like is there a provision we can utilize just to say look it's, we just need to, let's cancel this contract, we need to get a new one in place, put it out bid.

Think it's a conversation that I'll have with the office of law. Can ask Ashley. She's obviously contract person in our office. So I can ask her

and then circle back. It might be a good opportunity. I mean it sounds like the county already has some kind of piggyback agreement with Montgomery County you said. But all right, I'll follow-up with the city manager on that. Well I guess, could law office also just ask Ms.

Leonard to provide a summary on just existing or at least send the contractor to provide some summary of the existing conditions. Because I'm also curious, another reason I think perhaps to have a new contract. You know, one of the reasons, obviously the primary reason for having these is safety. And part of our understanding of what was authorized from the state is that, and what we did locally is authorize some of the money after administration costs that they can go towards actual safety projects. And so I know that's one of the things on my mind is under the contract, what's an estimation based on the fee and administration costs?

How much money would we potentially get based on the data we have coming back to us for actual safety projects.

Right and I know that portion of the code needs to be changed as well because it's not in line with state law. So be asking for changes on edits on that as well.

Well I think we addressed that when we got it passed. Did you hear from the state or did they have concern with how it's worded?

There's a portion in our code that says it will be spent on mobility. Yeah. And that is not specifically safety related.

We took that into consideration when we

drafted it. I know, the wording in the code is the concern though.

I know what I'm We took that into consideration because our goal is mobility but with the safety lens for sure. But I remember at the time we had not heard any concerns from the state about it. I'd be hesitant to change it unless we actually get something from them saying it's a violation. So other question, so yeah the wonderful, So who would be able to get that estimate assuming we have to go with this existing contract of what the waterfall would be as far as coming back to money that's able to roll in after, mean how much after administration's paid for, how much will come back to safety projects?

So we have three officers in traffic safety that administer the program. So it would have to be much over their salary and benefits to then go. And right now we're not bringing in that much. We don't have the studies back yet to say what the proposed revenue might be from these different locations. And then we also don't know with the new fines.

A lot of times when they do the speed studies they don't break it down into the same miles per hour violations as is provisioned in the fine schedule. So it's hard to extrapolate so quickly what the revenue would be.

I mean wouldn't that be part of the contract? It'd be important to know from contract negotiations to make sure the estimated amount of money raised would pay for all their costs, measured costs per the contract?

Sure. I'm sure we'll have some sort of estimate but it probably won't be broken down by the fine schedule. Once we have the studies of the violations we'll have at least the base of the $40 fine as an estimate. So when did

you say we would get that report

We didn't say when we were getting that report. We're awaiting it.

Do you know when they may get that back? Are

we talking about the second Yeah. Speed should be really any day now. Last contact I had with them they said they were working on it and this was early December.

I mean another reason I'm asking about this date is it'd be important to know we're entering into the budget and we need to know I think if we have to increase those fees to pay for the program or to pay for, basically to pay for the program and associated programs. So we do this assessment for our other utility fees. This isn't necessarily a utility fee. It's not a utility fee but same concept would be helpful. That may be included in the speed study or is that gonna just focus on the safety and

The speed study will definitely have the number violations that it issues and we can do an estimate based on the lowest fine schedule at least.

Okay. And as far as the process, a colleague brought up permitting process. I think we should check with the city manager because there may be other things that plan, if it has to be hooked up to electric, presumably a planning zoning might wanna have some involvement with the electrical inspector. Maybe we can, yeah I think we'd have to figure out exactly what might be needed in order to identify where we could streamline the process. Alright that's all I have. Thank you Madam Chair.

Alderman, Sean O'High.

Thank you madam chair. You said that the cameras only activate at 12 miles an hour. Is that state law that requires that?

They don't. It's not that they're activated. That's when you get a citation. And it is state law, yes.

Okay, so nothing we can do to start them off at 10 or five or? Nope. Okay. Do they still collect information if someone is speeding at five or 10 miles over though? Like if we let's say we have a street that doesn't I

don't think they capture the speed data when it's below. The state has a requirement that, because there are cameras there and we have used them in say some accidents that we've had where there's a speed camera in the area. And they will capture some footage. And we have to get a subpoena to get that information if it's not a citation. So they do capture some information sometimes that is helpful for investigations. But we have to subpoena that per state law. So that's what we do in those cases. Is

there any way to get them to do that or have any type? So even if it doesn't lead to citations. Because here's my think where my thinking is going. Let's say we have a road where we don't have a lot of 12 miles an hour over speeding but we still have 10. It's a 25 mile an hour road but people are going 35 on it. That's still a dangerous lethal speed if a pedestrian is struck in the majority of cases. But they're under that fine amount. I think we still need to do some type of speed enforcement until we restructure the road to make it more encouraging at the 25 mile an hour limit. Do these cameras offer any tools to get that info or do we have any tools in our toolbox to capture that?

We have other things like officers writing tickets and making stops. And we also have a speed sign that we put up in different neighborhoods to hopefully bring people's awareness to their speed. And then there's speed studies that they do all the time in the city to actually get data about how fast people are going. So those are our tools that we can use at this point.

Okay, thank you.

Anything else before us? Well thank you for coming out this evening.

Thank you madam chairperson.

Thank you and having just chaired my first meeting myself just last month, I'm rooting for you.

So you will be continuing the discussion of this at the next meeting? More can we have more discussion of it at the next meeting about the cameras?

We can certainly if you wanna invite us again.

Okay. Alright. Thank you. Have a nice day. Okay.

Next on the agenda, transportation department update. Mister Marcus, welcome.

Good afternoon Madam Chair, members of the Transportation Committee. For the record, Moore, director of transportation. I'd like to provide you with an update on what's been going on at the agency over the last few weeks or month or so. One big thing we're pretty excited about is our electric vehicle charging infrastructure has started the work to put that in the ground and all. The installation started probably just after Christmas and expected to be finished with the city's portion of it in March.

And then BGE will come in and do a lot of the bigger work with the substations and all that. We're hoping to have everything done by the June. Donovan Harold, our civil engineer in central services, is actually the project lead and been getting updates and meetings with him every other week. So we're really pleased to see how that work is going on. We're working with the procurement officer to secure another vendor for an electric bike and scooter contract.

Bird Bike and Scooter ended the relationship with us back in September. So we talked about it at our last meeting and hopefully get that RFP on the street sometime the in the next thirty days. We'd really like to get it in place by, let's say, May or the springtime when we have bike to work. You know, that was a really good effort that we had, especially with the scooters. Bikes didn't get used as much as the scooters, but the scooters were really cool way to get around.

One other thing we're working on with you probably heard some information about City Dock, the next phase that's going on on Monday the nineteenth. We're gonna lose a little bit more parking in this next phase until the conclusion probably in the late twenty twenty seven. This Hillman Garage is only like two tenths of a mile away. However, you know, I know some of the businesses are wondering how do we, you know, connect those dots and that kind of stuff. We do have the electric cart.

It's only a five seater. It is a fair weather vehicle. It's owned by the city, and we've created a route that we can, you know, maybe do after, daylight savings time, which is around about March 9, all the way through the October, depending on weather, early November. But the route would go from here, 145. If I could take you through it real quick, up Gorman Street, make a left onto Conduit, make a left onto Duke Of Gloucester.

Go down Duke Of Gloucester to Green Street, make that left. Go down Green, back onto Main Randall Street, and make a right onto City Dock. Continue up City Dock and make that left onto Craig, left onto Prince George, left back onto Randall, come around. About eight or ten minutes. There's a big challenge, you know, to doing that with Green Street during the week because of school.

You know, just like Saint Mary Street becomes a parking lot here on Duke Of Gloucester, Green Street is kind of the same thing around that time. It's just, you know, you're gonna get stuck there. But weekends is not. We can try it out as a pilot to see if it works. We're still working on some other things for additional type of parking programs that we can have at Hillman. Alderman Savage?

Can you just You back up a little

said that this was a pilot program for like a shuttle to serve Dock Street?

Well, right right now it's it's thoughts that we're looking at doing. Nothing is there now, but we're gonna lose more parking. It's gonna we probably have 55 to 65 spaces now.

I I mean my first thought is, you said upfront it's two tenths of a mile. Why the hell would we run, expend all those resources to run a shuttle? Unless it's more like handicapped or like seniors, but like

It's not all day, it's not every day. You know, it's what we were using as a pilot in Eastport. So looking at six hours a day, two days a week.

That's lot more than eight tenths of a mile in Eastport. This

is Yeah.

And it wasn't used much. Absurd. I'm sorry. It

may not be needed. These are thoughts that we're, you know, we're thinking out loud and maybe we should have

I would rather have it go towards another, you know, bus program. You know, I've tried to get some money set aside for looking at doing a expanding the circulator in Eastport or something. This just I don't know.

I don't know.

It's just I know it's We can talk about it a little more later. One of the things when we look at those kind of changes that you're making, you know, the Magenta shuttle, you know, you can have a really good route with a really good time frame. Expanding that, you might end up diluting paid revenue, paid service, or making it no longer feasible on the route that it's working now. That one carries quite quite a bit. We we aligned that one three years ago, and that was like a a, you know, a really good hit.

So what we're looking at, some of the ideas of the amendments you were bringing up with Eastport and the Forest Drive, Edgewater, Edgewood, would probably be better off better served standalone. Not increasing this one to go further, but something similar to that to serve other areas that have the need. So that's another conversation I totally understand. I totally understand where you're going with that. That's something that we're just, you know, talking about to see what we can do.

Showing the businesses and others, because you're right, you know, could be handicapped. That would be a big help, but how many what is the help? You know, what is the percentage? You know, that's what pilots kind of do. And like our go time, you know, it's been a year and a half, or some of the others that we piloted to see before we become a part of our transit operation. So I see where you're going with it and it makes sense.

Yeah, I mean it just perpetuates that kind

of, I don't know,

centric. You know we could probably use the same amount of money and put a dedicated bike lane in the garage.

But one of the things that you're most wanting to hear about, Alderman Savage, is like the AVL. And for the new folks on the committee, AVL, automatic vehicle locator. So we talk about vehicle, but in our aspect would be for where's my bus. We currently have an AVL on the magenta shuttle. Translock is what's used.

You see a little dot that's moving across a pattern, and you can kinda look at where it is and gauge yourself where what time it'll be there where where you're going. So one of the things that we're looking at with doing that is how do we get that without having an RFP process. We may have to go the RFP process, but one of the things we're looking at with the county. And as you know, with a lot of these grants within the state, sometimes there's a little leftover that we can piggyback on another contract. So once we reach out to Anne Arundel County Department of Transportation, we were directed to take a look at the others that are using that same contract.

And the steps that we're in right now, on December 10, you know, a formal request was sent per Anne Arundel County to Howard County because that was where it went next for the utilization of this contract for the ITS dispatching hardware and all. They directed us to Saint Mary's County, which, you know, they got the reassignment there. So they're looking at their numbers to see if we could actually get on that Pasio contract, which will be the best bet because we're part of the county. All else fails, you know, we would just go out for bid and do our own with whoever the best case scenario would be. So December 18, we reached out to Saint Mary's County to see where we are.

We're expected to get a determination from them probably not until the February. We do have money in the budget for this. We have 19 revenue vehicles. The big you know, so we've had money that, know, our local share, the state share, and the federal grant comes down to play with this whole whole mix. And the biggest part of it with the the PASIO contract is the reoccurring operational cost per vehicle which could exceed 18,000, which will be a part of our operating budget for the next fiscal year.

So most likely at the next meeting, next transportation committee meeting, we'll have more firm update. This is something we plan to do. It's definitely something that will be very helpful, very beneficial in a lot a lot of ways. One of the things that we wanna add on to this this technology would be an application to assist passengers. Like, it's automated automated announcements.

So with an automated announcement, that's, you know, that will help eliminate possible the possibility of a passenger missing their stop or knowing what stop is best for their desired, you know, destination. So weighing our options with this, we hope to, you know, have something towards the end of this fiscal year, but clearly by, you know, the January July 1 of FY twenty seven, but of this this calendar year. Getting it right the first time is really the biggest thing. We we have a good system with Transloc. There's quite a few companies that are very much interested in partnering with us, just trying to make the best use of the grant money that we got for this particular project.

I'm ready to entertain any other questions you might have. Alder persons and chair?

Do you have a Alderman Shabbat?

Madam Chair. That's great news director as far as the AVL. And just backing up, so just for colleagues and public's sake, benefit of this AVL is that people can then see on the transit app, right?

Yes. The transit app that will allow them to see where that bus is, the red, green, and all. One of the biggest things with the app that the county is using, you get that seamless journey of, you know, we, the city, are part of the county. It would be great if it all comes together and we're able to use that one app that they're using. But you're absolutely right in your definition of it. You'll be able to see where the bus is.

And so that's the transit app. It's called transit, right?

It's called Passio. Passio. That's what the county is actually using.

Well, thought Transit they're

app is is like a broader it's kinda hard to explain in technology terms, but you have a lot of different pieces of this. Like, Transloc is who we use, we partner with the Magenta shuttle. Not sure if that can be also viewed on the transit app. But when you look at the county, there could be a place, have and to do some research on that to get back with you to see if that once we get the the hardware to operate AVL, can it reside on the transit app? Which is really big for those that don't know that the transit app is all over the country.

Maybe 450 plus locations around, you know, New York to LA, whether it's subway or bus or things of that nature. And it would be good to be able to reside on something like that. As Alderman Savage is saying, you open it up on your phone, put on your location finder, and you're at the mall, and you put in 160 Duke Of Gloucester, and it'll be able to tell you the green route when the next time we'll be coming to you and predicting it in real time. And that's one of the biggest things. And there's so many other add ons, and what we wanna do with this to get it right or the best we can, You know, automated announcements, and now you're looking at the other population that may be some kind of impairment, or you may, you know, daydream, you know, and say, you know, now you're hearing that you're, you know, going down West Street, and then you're approaching the Michael Bush Library.

Transfer here for whatever or 80 West. It's like now you can transfer to the Baltimore 70 bus and the other routes that come through there. So it's really helping out that population that would need the, you know, the audio to go along with it, not just the visual that you will have on your phone. So I'd like to continue this conversation as you've asked for, like, the police there too, to keep you updated in where we are with this very important project that will just help the city.

Yeah. Thank you. That's it's it does look like in the transit app, can I can see the county, some of the state shuttles, they have a little icon if you can see the live position? But I don't see the and I see our buses, but it's not live. But I don't see

the circulator on there. That's a really good point. I'm glad you brought it up because without having AVL, automatic vehicle locator, you're gonna see our routes, but when we say it, it's a predictor. So you have an electronic schedule of the time it should arrive at a station or destination without knowing any other mishaps of a light failure waiting, letting the police or letting cars go by intermittently, or there's an accident or reroute. So yeah, you're right. You're gonna see our buses, but they're all in electronic schedule format.

With Howard County is that an instance where you're saying it would be the city and interrumble piggybacking on the Howard County contract?

Well, let me get some more information exactly how the state contract went. And other agencies, like what we're trying to do, is if there's there's room left on it, we would like to already piggyback on it because they've already been vetted by the state, and we can kinda do that without having to go out to a full RFP. A lot of jurisdictions within the state of Maryland or other states will do the same thing with bus purchases. Instead of going out on your own, MTA will actually say, okay, we already have this contract with you know, know, Gillick, and, you know, there's certain amount of room for you to buy x amount left from what Howard County, Montgomery County, whatever is already used. So it behooves us, because you don't have to go through the whole RFP process, that that has already been vetted.

And if there's enough room for the amount of buses that you need to do with the AVL, or the number of buses that you wanna purchase on this particular contract. Our two electric buses was a part of that, a Washington state contract on the federal level that we we were able to piggyback on a Washington state contract. So when you do those things, it's sort of embedded by the federal or the state agencies to allow us to, I wouldn't use the word bypass an RFP, but to use what's remaining of that RFP.

Okay. Thank you.

But yeah, definitely like to continue this because we'll have more information. I know our next meeting is February 11. We might not have much then, but we can keep pushing the envelope to continue the conversation, and it'll be really exciting to see when this comes to fruition. It's something that we really want and need.

Okay. We have another concern from Alderman Shademach.

I would just like to say as a frequent user of buses and the transit app, I can say it is such a great convenience knowing when and where your bus actually is versus the stated schedule due to the various things that can happen. That said one of the main things you said you want it to work right. You need to ensure that your drivers have their transponder actually on?

You are absolutely right and that goes back down to our dispatches and supervisors. You gotta sign the bus or else you're gonna see it parked somewhere that's, like, never moved. So you're you're right. So give you an example with magenta shuttle right now. We have four buses that have been outfitted with the the device. We have two, and our contractor rest in Reston Limo has two. And you know when they put another one in service, you keep seeing this bus sitting at South Street Lot. Why is it moved? They didn't change it over. That's going be a really big deal to make sure every single morning, every bus is turned on and is in service so it doesn't look like it's sitting at our depot. You're right.

I have missed the last bus out of D. C. Due to them not having that thing on.

That's not fun.

No it wasn't.

Okay. So that concludes your information for us today.

It does unless you have other questions.

Okay then. Well we will continue at the next meeting of next month.

I have some question related to our bus

system. You Madam

All woman. Man.

You Madam Chair.

So thank

you for the breakdown of the bus system. I am now gonna talk about everybody's favorite subject, parking. So we recently reduced the fines and fees for violation in Mill's Hillman Garage. This is good, But I know that we were asking for drive in drive out. And I know that you were fighting for that. This is not me venting frustration at you. You are definitely an ally in this. Why are they fighting us on this still?

It's not a fight. It's the programming part, and I do owe you an update. As we met with the AMRP Medco folks late November, we probably have a meeting set for the end of this month, early next month, clearly before the next meeting. A lot of that you have two different systems, and just the programming to make it right. But I'll be able to give you have an update for you, and I can do the research behind the scenes, but we can definitely have a representative from premium parking at our next meeting.

In fact, that's what I thought we wanted to do, have both of the contractors. And I really appreciate you guys giving us agenda topics so we can be ready to speak on whatever it is you want. We can do a little bit of research. So I know this will be one That we want to see where we are, because we've asked for it for a while, Alderman Shantomar, you're absolutely right. And hopefully it won't be as long as it has been, and it should be right around the bend, but I can't tell you exactly that timeframe, but sooner than later. Good. I would like give an update on the February 11.

Because how it currently operates is

prepaid, yeah.

It's not acceptable and I voiced along with Alderman Savage how we felt about it during our last economic matters hearing last year. How we felt like they were being frankly predatory to us and taking advantage of a loophole with the prepaid going well we'll treat this like a meter. And if they don't do the drive in drive out I do want to get the divorce papers ready. Understood. That's all I have to say on that.

Okay.

Well again thank you for coming out this afternoon Mr. Marcus.

Thank you for having

We'll see you at our next meeting. Next, we have the transportation board update.

Could you please turn your microphone on? I apologize. I've been informed by Mr. Chair.

Oh wait, it was not on. Forgive me. Thank you. Tara Ashmore, chair of the Annapolis Transportation Board. Hopefully you all received the email at the beginning of the month which showed the representation from the different wards that we have on the board as well as from St. John and the U. S. Naval Academy. And if you have any volunteers that would like to join the committee we'd welcome them. Please just let us know.

The ATB is really focused on buses, bikes, and parking and we are voting on Monday on just a recommendation to the Annapolis Transportation Committee and that will be things on the Hillman the Mills Hillman Garage specific to reserved parking spaces. Someone on the committee is observing that there seem to be quite a few vacant spaces. I noticed there were 200 on my way up and that a 100 or so of those are reserved for monthly or dedicated parking spaces and the question is whether that's actually good utilization or if there is opportunity there to make better use of the parking at Hillman Garage from non monthly users. So you'll see that and then there's also going to be a comment or recommendation on electric vehicle charging stations in the garage around signage and ease of use. So we'll have that for you shortly.

I did know that you were going to be talking about the speed cameras. This came up last year as well. I could not find the Annapolis agreement but I found a Bladensburg agreement with that same red speed company and it looks if we're similar they get 33% of revenues. You have sixty days to terminate without cause. If you go to put in a speed camera and you don't get a speed camera installed, you decide, know, and Apple decides to pull it, then you owe them 30,000 or so for them not being able to put in the services.

So they gave a $30,000 recap fee. You have annual reviews and you have monthly reports. So I would offer that if you guys can actually hand me the 2013 agreement and all the amendments since then, if we could get the monthly reports and the annual reports from Red Speed we'd be happy to look into and do an analysis for you. If we have this four cameras requires three police officers, right, You'd have to have about $550,000 in annual revenue from those four cameras in order for you to have accretive funds going back to your safety programs.

For three officers?

Yep. Going going off what I you know do an average you know Annapolis police officer median salary plus 50% for benefits right? So call that 120. That's $360,000 just for the Annapolis budget going against the incoming revenues. So Red Speed would have to be collecting $540,000 in order for all of this to break even. They'd have to collect more than that for you to see money going into your safety programs roughly if we have a contract similar to the Bladensburg contract. Calculating here, sitting here while I was listening. So I mean this is all discoverable. You can figure this out. And I might suggest four additional cameras.

The question is do four additional cameras require three more police? I mean they're writing 90 tickets a week if they're at that max revenue at the original $40 ticket and granted the Maryland law changed and so you might get more than $40 a ticket but you'd have to have 13,500 tickets at $40 to break even which is an officer writing 90 tickets a week. That doesn't seem burdensome to me.

Doesn't seem what?

Burdensome. But that's where you need to get the scale. If you put in four more cameras, do you need three more police or are you gonna get the same amount of work from those three people? Or it's an automation tool that helps those officers do it more efficiently? I'm surprised we had three. I mean maybe they're also doing physical surveillance and ticketing but if they're just sitting at a desk doing ticketing that seems not very efficient. But you see what I'm saying. If you put in four more cameras and you have to have three more police officers, you're not gonna get the economy of scale where then you have more money going into your safety programs. Does that help at all?

Very.

And again happy to look at the contract and do that sort of

a

study from that point of view if it helps. Yes?

I appreciate your breakdown on that numbers for us.

It's estimates based on a Bladensburg contract not ours.

It's still very helpful to have that snapshot. Something that I've been trying to work on with Alderman Huntley and we're hoping to get some enabling legislation through the state this year is stop sign and crosswalk cameras. I believe Prince George's County allows them in some of their municipalities. I don't know if you're familiar with those. Basically you push the little if someone were to roll past a stop sign treating it as optional it would ding them.

Or in the case of my crosswalks on Hilltop Lane where we push the little flashy buttons and drivers ignore those putting pedestrians at risk. It flashes and dings them. So we're hoping to try and get enabling legislation to start putting those out as well because pedestrian safety is becoming an increasing issue for us in Annapolis. But if you're aware of anyone, I think Prince George's has those in some of their jurisdictions. If you know of any of that contracts that you can look at there that'd be wonderful.

Yeah. We can Google that. I haven't seen that. I just don't know. Also am sorry, as part of the study that red speed is doing for the location of the new cameras, there should be heat maps. Mean Maryland Department of Transportation keeps a data source of all accidents so there really ought to be a heat map layered over the locations of the cameras that tell you whether those are the most critical areas. Granted you're also school zoning or resident zoning but you should be able to pull a heat map from the Maryland Department of Transportation that would help guide you as to what would be the best prospects, highest prospects for locating those tumors.

Showing accidents. Showing accidents?

Yep.

Yeah, thank you very much. Is very helpful. It sounds like I need, I'm gonna, my plan is to request some of this additional information, the reports. I need to, think we need to speak with the city manager too to figure out. We need we should have had somebody doing this analysis in house already frankly. I'm a bit flummoxed. You're doing quite a bit of research and hopefully you'll continue to be willing to help us in that regard. Yeah I'm personally trying to get my head around this program. We'll need to get our head around this program for the upcoming budget as well as I mentioned.

And I'm afraid you're not going to find much there to redirect towards other safety programs.

Yeah, well maybe not. Mean it all depends on all depends on where we set the actual fine. My hope would be to have it set high enough where we could bring in some money via some kind of waterfall. But to your point, to do that we need to really understand the total program costs, how many officers would be needed per camera. We would need to know how much the contractor's gonna be spending. What their administrative costs are. There's a lot we need to

Yeah. If they're getting a percent, then what you really need to do is see the historical revenue.

Sorry?

If if if they're getting a percent of all revenues, if they get the first 33% of all revenues, all you really need to know would have been the historical revenues for four cameras, right, and you can make a good estimate there. And then also the, I thought that the fines are actually based on state law.

No. My recollection is the state law, I don't think they specified what the fines, the maximum. $425

for somebody being 40 miles per hour over the speed limit.

Was that in the state? I'd have to look at it again.

Yeah. MD it's easily found. 12 to 15 miles per hour with the speed limit is 40, so that's the baseline that officer was talking about. And then if you're 16 to 19, you go up to 70, almost double. 20 to 29 over is a 120 and it ratchets up.

Yeah, see. I mean I know they had specific restrictions for school zones but outside of that, and does it set at Florida, is it set at 40. Same floor, 40.

This was October legislation that passed in Maryland. Happy to put some numbers together if we can get the contracts and get all the back reports. Okay. I don't Yeah, who would receive those?

I mean the contract is so old I wouldn't be surprised if the state doesn't even get the annual reports. Presumably the police department. But I, you know, I haven't seen the contract so I don't know who the contract is with.

Okay.

Maybe it just goes to city manager. Although in 2013 we I don't think we had a city manager. We may still have city administrator. I don't know. We'll have to do more research.

Okay. But in a nutshell, if it's gonna require three additional police I don't think you're gonna have scale and I don't think you're gonna find it to be accretive. But it is an important safety program.

Can just intervene and just ask the equipment of those boxes that's up on the poles, They're for the speedy the people who speed. Right? We have one in front of our church, 87 West Street, and several people almost hit their hats on it. Can it be moved up some?

I don't know. Not mine. Not my area.

Who would handle something like that? Think you need to talk

to the police officer that has, you know

Yes. It's a great it's a big box. It's a huge box. And I mean why seeing one person struck their head. You know. But yeah you got to really watch coming across the street with that box right there waiting. So I'll I'll find someone who's in charge of that and see if they can adjust it some kind of way.

You just ask you can ask the city manager. I'm not sure if that'd be a if that's a speed camera or

Yeah. Don't know which regular

don't know

which one

it is.

Yeah. Street crime

because I know they have that little walkway right there. Okay. So it's something to do with that little walking cross the pedestrian. Yeah.

What street is done?

Right. West

Street in

front of our church.

Asbury right there. And several people almost struck the head. Okay. Well, Anyhow, do you have anything else at this time?

I don't think so. I thought that was good food for thought. Anything you need us to do, please let us know. And will you be joining our monthly meetings?

Okay. Anything else? I'll share my

How do you like Ward five's newest contribution to the board?

Pardon me?

How do you like Ward five's contribution to the board, Phineas?

I can't hear it. What?

How do you like Ward five's newest contribution to the transportation board, Phineas?

Oh, thank you. Sorry. I just wasn't hearing you correctly. He is extremely enthusiastic and he's already been put on a subcommittee on buses. So you'll probably be seeing something from the committee on that pretty soon. Marcus and I were talking about it. I think on a mission to go on every bus route multiple times. So he's been a good ad. Thank you. Did you see he's already got a Facebook page with his membership? Mean like that was instant. I thought that was a real sign of enthusiasm.

Is fired up about his You

know we've people before and they are fired up and then we sort of lose them because it gets monotonous? I don't know. We go over the same things a lot and so I do hope he sticks. Because there were some other ones that we did lose pretty quickly that were younger, brought a different viewpoint, and it was nice to have their viewpoint. So I hope he does stay.

So there should be one. We haven't really done any appointments I don't think.

Phineas was the We

do have a couple of new ones. I know I have one, Brendan Boyle. Not actually from my ward, right on the boundary though. But he's been an advocate for transportation cycling. So hopefully you'll be seeing his name once we get, I don't think we have a board's commissions coordinator right now. So once we get somebody hopefully you'll start to see some names. But how many vacancies did you say you have?

It's quite a few. I don't know that I mind the vacancies. It just would be nice to get a broader range of people so that's why Phineas was such a great ad. We only have right now Ward 1258, St. John U. S. Academy and three at large. I think there were four openings. And I wouldn't really worry about ward representation because at this point with that many openings somebody on the border I'm sure would be just fine. Thank you. Anything else? Alright thanks so much.

Thank you for coming out. Is there anything else for the good of the meeting for today? If not, we're gonna adjourn.

Madam chair, I'd like to make a motion to adjourn.

Second.

The meeting has adjourned.

We have to take a vote, madam chair.

Oh, I'm sorry. Let's take this vote. All in favor? Aye. All anyone opposed? Well the meeting adjourns at 05:15.