Environmental Matters Committee - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon, everybody. I'd like to call to order July 10 meeting for of the environmental matters committee. Let's see. Let's take, roll call. Alderman Arnett? Here. Alderman Finlayson?

Present.

Alright. Thank you. Business miscellaneous. Can I get a motion to approve the oh, I missed yeah? Approval of the agenda?

Second.

All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Is there a motion to approve the minutes from June 12?

Move approval of the minutes from the June 12 meeting.

Second. All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

It carries. Thank you. First up, legislative item o twenty twenty four. And I think we would have liked to we also have a presentation from we have staff here. For example, we also have the Heritage Commission. So I guess if staff, either city managers or public works, whoever wants to give us a breakdown on the legislation. Yes. No. Twenty twenty five.

We'll do introductions real quick. I'm Burr Vogel, director of public works.

Allison D'Amato, engineering department of public works.

Matt Flinner, director of central services.

Thank you. So if you give us a breakdown of o twenty twenty five, what the purpose is.

I can kick it off and just yeah. It so very briefly, we are conveying the Spa Road property to the county to move forward with the environmental remediation. So this is just a step we have to do to comply with the grant and complete the remediation work, and then we intend to get the property back from the county and then do other development.

I mean,

I'm sorry. One one correction. The transfer will be to the Resilience Authority.

Oh, thanks, perfect.

Of Anapolis

and Anne Arundel County.

The Resilience Authority. And then, we'll be getting it back, and then we'll use it for future development after site's remediated.

Alright. Anything else to add? That's it. And this is for, both sides or one side?

It's for both sides. It'll be for 09:32 and 09:35. 935 is we'll go through a subdivision. So Weems Welland Field in the back will be done separately, and then the front piece will all be for the remediation for a Brownfields grant.

Okay. So just to clarify then, it's the north Northwest and southeast side by or Western East, whatever it is.

So

Both sides of the region.

We generally refer to the side with the Salt Dome as the west side, the side with Weems Whalen Field as the east side. And so 935 is the east side.

935 is the east side.

35 is the side. It will be split into two parcels, and it will be the westernmost parcel that we're transferring here.

Okay. So it's only the westernmost parcel of the east side, 930 And

the west side.

Oh, and the west. Correct. So one parcel from the east and then one parcel?

Correct.

Okay. What's what's rash why is the one part what part's being separated out, subdivided out? Because I I don't I'll take a crack at it

and I make I mean

have a map. None of us

just Yeah.

Do we do is

there a map?

There's parts that. Do We should have a map

in I don't see one in the staff report, but I may have missed it. We'll admit.

Williams Wayland Field, we're gonna move forward with construction, and we're not including that in the grant application. So we're we're that's just we're just separating that area out as well as the, I think, some of the portions that are not developable. Because

this is not

So Weems Whalen Field is going to be separated out because

Separated out because we want the city wants to retain ownership and control so we can continue on with, reopening the field.

The CIP project.

Correct.

And thank you for the public. We do the map forthcoming. Can you get that scanned or

Oh, can I

the studio?

You don't have to a connection.

Can I issue can I provide you with a current copy? That's that's not my current copy. So could I provide you with a current copy for the public for public use?

Yeah. Sure.

I thought you were gonna just use it to help guide you, but if it's for public use, I'll provide you with the subdivision.

Yeah. But I think they wanted need to show it on the screen.

I was just saying, hey. Everything at this meeting has

to be It's being 100. Being

recorded and telecast.

Yeah. Sure. You can show it.

Yeah.

But she just said this is not the current map. Did you not say that, or did

I It's not

it's not the current subdivision, but you can use we can utilize it as a talking point. Do

you have do you have a current map that you

leave present? No. But I do have it available that I can provide

Okay. After.

What is it different?

I mean, I wanna speak to Trump.

No. I understand. Well, I guess, current if you could send that to staff because we need to upload that with legislation.

Yeah. The current is just an adjustment of the property of the property lines based off of review comments.

Good. I see. That is pretty important.

It it's minor. Right? It's a minor

It's an adjustment. I can talk you through the adjustment. Okay.

So we'll wait for that. So I will while we're waiting on the map alright. So we've been separated out. The rest of it, which is, I guess, part of the the old building that was taken down. Right? The old Public Works Building. So that along with everything on the other side, which is the current one of the current public Works Buildings. Right? That whole side with the Salt Dome, old Salt Dome, is going to be also included in this. Okay. K. And for remediation on both side. I know there's remediation on the east side, but there's also remediation on the west that's needed.

Correct.

It's different scales of remediation. Right? I mean, just what's the what are the issues on the left side? Similar?

Yes. More hydrocarbons, right, from the public works usage, less so ash from the landfill, if I remember right. Yes. Landfill was only on the East. Yes. And then you had contamination from the public works usage.

I think the remediation efforts will be Yeah. Something

Good question. Do we have the phase two study results?

Yes.

You do. You and I believe you you all have the phase two ESA from from several months ago.

Well, mean, well, the director did present on that a while back

in 2020. But I thought that was very cursory. It didn't really it only took a few tests. I

There's a there's a complete phase two, probably 40 ground soil and water samples. That was completed in January, maybe before.

Correct. The phase two has been completed and submitted to MDE for review. MDE is reviewed and issued comments back, and currently, our environmental consultant is, responding to those comments.

I'm having a very hard time hearing.

The phase two was completed in January and submitted to MDE for the voluntary cleanup program. MDE has reviewed and issued comments. The comments are minor, and our environmental team is currently working to address those comments. I can provide a phase two to the committee.

Thank you.

Can we take a step back? Yeah. My understanding coming into this legislation was that we were going to turn this over to the Resiliency Authority for a short period of time so they could get grants, get the grant money that was necessary to do the remediation.

That's fine.

And then it would come back to us.

That's correct.

Alright. So first of all, the reason I asked the question about the phase two is I have no idea what the cost of remediation is. I've heard figures as high as $10,000,000. But it seems like we need to know that.

So the phase two won't include that?

I can answer that.

The phase two will or did?

Well, did did

not include cost remediation. So I'm having trouble figuring out what it is we're doing and why we're doing it when we don't really know what the benefit of it going to the resiliency authority is. And I'm really disturbed on page two, where it says it'll come back to us in seven year. What happens for seven years? And I know this is associated with the Choice Neighborhood Initiative. Does that mean the Choice Neighborhood Initiative is gone

It's okay. I can't answer.

Or in suspense for seven years?

So so no. This is the the remediation will happen concurrent with development. So right so the so the seven years the seven year period is to allow the site to be rid of is to allow the site to be redeveloped. I it's a little bit of a simplistic answer, but what is gonna happen in some of these places, a building foundation will be built. There will be contaminated soil that will have to be removed and disposed of as hazardous waste.

That is those are the kinds of costs that will be covered by the grant. So that's why this is not just get in, do a bunch of cleanup for a year, leave. We wanted we wanted to allow time for the Choice Neighborhoods development and to to occur and for those construction activities to happen, for the environmental costs associated with those construction activities to be reimbursed via the grant. This is all in support of the housing. It is not in lieu of or It something that would be an obstacle to that.

I'm quickly scanning. I don't see any mention of the Joyce neighborhood program in this legislation. But it sounds to me

like Right.

Getting the grant is automatically saying this property is going to the Choice Neighborhood Initiative. There's none of that in here.

The grant is specifically for the cleanup of the site. It's a $4,000,000 opportunity. The opportunity will essentially be lost.

Yeah. No. No. But I I understand.

So I mean, they

and develop

This does not prejudge how we use the site.

It does because you said there's gonna be cleanup and development during the seven years and then it'll

come

back

to us.

If for some reason we don't get the grant or we don't do anything, the property would revert to us.

That that's what I'm saying. So there's a lot more going on here that is not in this legislation. So there's all kinds of relationships with

That's correct.

Choice Neighborhood Program, HUD, so forth. And, actually, I'm really perplexed. The the HUD property will come back to us in seven years. And does that imply some city responsibility to the housing authority? And does this imply what does this imply in terms of cost of financing to the city? This ordinance doesn't get any

This is simply this is simply one step, one mechanism. It is its purpose is purely to make us eligible for a grant. It has no other implications beyond that.

Yes. It does. According to your verbal testimony, it's gonna be clean up and development. Development of what?

That's gonna have to be worked out between now and the time we apply for the grant in October.

I think it needs to be cleaned up before we give away city property for a dollar.

Well, my heart

But I I really wouldn't I wouldn't consider this giving away city property. This is an administrative step that makes us eligible, does not give up control of that property. Nothing else is gonna happen to that property that without our approval. I recognize that this is not all spelled out in some you know, this is not a comprehensive piece of legislation that shows all of the pieces. But again, this is a mechanism that will make us eligible for grant funding.

So it says for the purpose of the sale of the property owned

by I I understand that.

Hold on.

But we're we're selling it to ourselves in essence. The Resilience Authority is part of us.

We have not a majority on the Resilience Authority. We have minority. We have one seat.

We have some other questions though.

We do.

We'll come back, Alderman Arnett, Alderman Flemyson?

Well, I'm I have I share Alderman Arnett's concerns. This is extremely vague, and I feel like we're being deliberately left out of the facts. The Resilience Authority is made up a majority of count. So what's the guarantee, first of all, that they're going to accept this and that they're going to pursue the funding at the $4,000,000 if that's what it is. Okay? There's nothing that speaks to that and more of the guarantee that it's gonna come back to us without any financial obligation on the city. Okay?

So how I think maybe some of these questions we should bring the law office, planning and zoning, HACA. If you want to have a full briefing on the overall way forward for the for the site, that would be appropriate.

Well, then we should just postpone the action on this legislation until we get the appropriate parties in front of us. Fair enough. To give us this legislation without a map attached, You know, I'm looking for and and part of it's my ward. I have every right to expect that all the information would be provided. Okay? Whimswell, on which I've been fighting for years about, is near and dear to my heart. And according to what you said, it's cut out of this piece. I don't understand how Williams Whelan has a certain level of contamination and property around it does not. How does that work? You know? So where

Would you like to talk about that?

If you can answer the question, absolutely.

But Okay.

You know, we need things in writing so that we can refer back to these facts as they're provided to us. But, yeah, by all means, tell me how that works.

Alright. So Williams Whelan has a, small amount of a low level of contamination from the ash from the incinerator. And that contamination, as you mentioned, is all over the site. Right? Both the, both the parcel that where the field is as well as the parcel that's closer to Spar Road. We are keeping Weems Whalen under our own control Gotcha. So that we can move forward with constructing the new field under the capital project for Weems Wayland Field.

That that

remediation will happen without the support of any EPA funding. That would With

that support of what?

Without the support of any EPA funding. Okay. Where is Weems helping with that will have to approve MDE will have to approve our plans for the Weems Wayland.

Okay. But they don't have anything to do with the funding that is needed to

Correct. No. We're we're self funding that To

get rid

also with with DNR.

Rid of the contaminant?

Correct. The the capital the capital improvements project for Williams Wayland Field covers everything.

Okay. So you didn't answer the question about how come Williams Whelan has a certain level of contamination, but the property adjacent to it does not.

I I did I did say that. They're they're all contaminated. Weems Whalen is contaminated less because it's further away. But the closer you get to the incinerator, the higher the levels of contamination.

Okay. So the the property that is partially on this map that abuts the Williams Whalen Field has different levels of contamination. Correct?

Yes. There there there are various levels of contamination throughout the site. I would recommend, taking a glance at the phase two environmental site assessment when you get a chance.

Okay. Does the report that you sent us speak to the different levels of contamination throughout and the cost for remediation?

Which report are you referring to?

That was my question. Which report? The phase two report? The phase two report. Yes. That speaks to the contamination types of those levels. The phase two will speak to the contamination types and those levels throughout the entire site, both this portion and the portion on the other side of Small Road.

And the remediation that we're seeking through funding from the Resilience Authority? No. No.

The re the remediation funding is coming through an environmental protect Federal Environmental Protection Agency Brownfields grant.

For which piece of property?

Both of the pieces of property that are subject to this legislation. The legislation transfers the properties to the resilience authority

Mhmm.

So that they will be eligible for the brownfield cleanup grants.

Okay.

The city would not be eligible to apply for those grants.

Well, that was gonna be one of my questions. Then why wouldn't we be eligible in in

The city of Annapolis is the responsible party for the contamination. The federal rules do not allow the responsible party to get grant funding.

Okay. So we're the Resilience Authority is pursuing it.

Correct.

Okay. I will stop here. I'm sure I have other questions. But

Okay. So when did you said the grant's gonna be submitted in October?

No November.

Oh, November. November. Okay. Is that when it when is that the deadline?

Yeah. The grant deadline will be November 2025, and then we will know if we get awarded the grant in May 2026. And they issue the grant announcement in, likely in September. The funding opportunity will come through so we can start the process.

K. And that's a grant being submitted by the Resilience Authority, presumably, if this goes

The grant will have to be submitted through the Resilience Authority. Yes.

Alright.

And I think so the staff report I'm gonna keep I'm trying to keep track of some of the questions the committee has. In case we do need to postpone it today, we'll know questions we have or other requests. We can go over that as well. The staff report does mention that public works operations would need to be relocated before the remediation can occur.

I think. And

Correct. On the area on the portion with the salt dome and the storage yards. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. And I guess some of the confusion on my part, I think perhaps our part, is I'm trying to remember. I I don't think we have received a briefing on the phase two. So I think that'd be good to understand as far as the level of contamination because I do remember the concentrations on the East Side and that those were in clear conflict with any potential future redevelopment in the East. Right?

But as far as the West Side, I'm not so clear on where exactly that contamination is and how bad it is. But presumably, levels were found that require remediation before any kind of redevelopment Yes. Or residential redevelopment?

Yes. If the committee would like, our environmental team is willing to do a presentation on the phase two so that you could understand fully the scope of the research and the findings.

Yeah. That'd be good. That would be good. Thank you. We'll get you back to get them on the agenda for the next meeting.

But we do have a very tight timeline because our next meeting is not gonna be until September. And let's see. This is an ordinance. Right? So but we are I think are we the only committee that this Yeah.

On the rules?

It's going to

How did it end up on?

Can you also get the results for you for the next meeting? But I think

So

I I do think that some of the at least confusion on my end is I understand how this is tied to some of the redevelopment opportunities, but I think some of the consternation may be that we haven't even settled on what type of redevelopment would happen. But I think if I understand the director correctly, you're you're basically saying that's still to be determined, but this just Right.

But it does. The EPA will have this very same question. Right? So our grant application will be fairly specific as to what is going to be built and what remediation will accompany that.

Okay. So what is what exactly is the grant for then?

The grant is for the cleanup of

Yeah. But cleanup can be, you know, multiple things. Right? It it it can be prevention measures to stop the, you know, the vertical movements of anything that would be hazardous. So it can be a a vapor barrier, vapor removal systems underneath foundations, things of that nature. It it allows for the safe construction and reutilization. Right? That's what brown that's what a brownfield is by, you know, by definition. It allows for the safe utilization of a site that has some environmental contamination. And so those those mitigations or remediations can take, you know, several different forms.

Mister chair, MDE told us many years ago what levels of mitigation were necessary for different parts of that property. At a time when we were considering more athletic fields in addition to Williams Whalen. And they told us a certain level of mitigation was needed, and we had that discussion about putting housing. And they told us, for example, that you couldn't include housing that would have basements. Okay?

So there is a report that tells us what MDE has told us as guidelines. I don't know whether that's being used now or not, but it sounds like MDE isn't weighing in on that aspect anymore, or are they?

They they will have to approve. Right? We are we are part of the the VCP voluntary cleanup program. All reutilization of this site will come under the purview of MDE. Absolutely.

So it would make sense to me that we would know what the restrictions or the requirements are from their standard before we make our own plan. Is is that what we're doing? Maybe we are

I think some of those details will be flushed out further down in the process, further down the road.

Well, part of my question on that is is why I was asking about what exactly the grant is for and what has to be spelled out because my concern well, a couple of concerns. One, don't necessarily wanna lock in the West Side, some kind of residential redevelopment. I personally, I wanna keep that open for potential city facility expansion or city

infrastructure. So you may not be aware that the developer that HACA is working with has has proposed the reverse. East Side for city use, West Side for residential.

But, yeah, we are completely unaware

of it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Why would we know?

I I you're right.

It's a but part of my why one of the reasons why I'm asking

I'm just the money guy. Right? Mean, you're here trying to get some money for the project.

But one of the reasons why I'm asking that is because if, for example, like, what's the most cost effective? If the West Side is not gonna be used for residential and just gonna reconstruct another city facility of some kind, would we still need to do full remediation, or could we just put on a new city facility if nobody's living there?

Even then, this grant funding would be helpful. Yeah. But, I mean but so let's say we're gonna do some sort of commercial use. There are the, you know, the standards for cleanup would be less stringent under that use. But there would still gonna be some amount of hazardous material that's gonna have to be disposed, right, just just in dealing with excavation. Those costs could be covered by the EPA.

Yeah. And if they're yeah. But, yeah, if they're needed, I mean, I because some of it can just simply be capped. Right? Some of it

Right. But e right. That's still that even a capping is a something. Yeah. Even with that, that's bringing in some clean fill

Yeah.

And and likely some sort of barrier.

Right.

Right. Again, this this legislation that's in front of you is purely a financial mechanism to allow us to tap into some federal funding. And and and absolutely, you know, question the law office about some of the questions about, well, could, you know, what are the uses that could could the Resilience Authority go out and do other things that we wouldn't necessarily like? These are these are these are perfectly valid questions. Not for me, though.

Well well, I guess it's so I'll go to your next, Alderman. So the, for the grant, I'm I guess my concern is, does the grant would the grant lock us into particular use, could we use that remediation money for general just period, clean up the property regardless of what we're gonna do?

That's correct. The grant doesn't lock you into the development. The grant requests that you show what you're thinking about doing with the property, but they EPA has told us that they understand that there can be changes as designs progress. And so, yes, the money is there for the cleanup no matter what we ultimately utilize it for, whether it's for housing or another type of development.

Thank you. Alderman Arnett?

Yes. Thank you, mister chair. So several questions. One, it it seems it feels to me very premature. We have no idea what the cleanup costs are going to be and whether or not we'll get the grant for that. And I think that's an important thing to know. I think

Could we could we pause there?

Pardon me?

Could we could we pause on that point? You sounded like you were gonna move on to another one.

Yeah.

Okay. So you you are you are saying that this step feels premature because we don't have a a fully fleshed out plan of what's gonna be built, what exactly remediate is going to be remediated.

I'm not even going I'll come to that later. We don't even know what we're getting by going to the resiliency authority because they can get the a grant for the remediation. We don't know what the remediation is costing yet.

And so could I ask why why that cost is so significant to know right now at this stage?

Well, maybe they won't if if the cost is $10,000,000, maybe they won't be able to get a grant for $10,000,000, particularly in this environment. Then what happens?

So, right, $4,000,000 if that's all we get is better than us having to cover between us and our development partners with HACA and and the developer. If the cost is $10,000,000 and we get a grant for 4,000,000, that's $4,000,000 that don't have to come from a city funding source one way or another.

I know So that $4,000,000

is helpful. Right? Whatever it is we get is helpful. That's why we're going through these steps. And because of the timelines on these on this grant, this will be the last year this funding is available. It will it's not been reauthorized. It's not something we can take a bite at in 2026. We either decide, like, hey. Look. What we're happy to take the federal government's money to support the plans that we have for this site, or we say, no. Thanks. We'll just figure it out ourselves. And that's and that's fine too.

Well, on that point, did you have an estimate of the cleanup cost that you have to submit with the grant application? Like, rough estimate Not not

yet because they're it's a little bit to be determined.

We're currently working with the design team for the Choice Neighborhoods and our environmental team to come up with those costs. I think Hailey Aldrich did provide me some preliminary numbers based off the phase two, and it was, approximately $4,000,000, a little bit less.

So I I think we really need to have a better feel because if we do this and it is more than 4,000,000, this implicitly, if I'm understanding these, six items here, commits the city to the rest of the cost. No? The city shall be responsible. Well, that's for the transfer costs. The resiliency accepts it as in condition as in is condition. So what if the grant doesn't cover it? Is the resiliency authority responsible for the additional money? No.

No. Who is?

No. So let's say nothing ever happens. That's a good We don't get a grant. The development for some reason is not able to move forward. The property will simply revert to us.

But that's actually was gonna be one of my next questions. Do we still have a liability to clean up? If we don't use it, do we have to clean it up?

There are certain aspects of the site that we that we do have to clean up even if nobody ever occupies it. If it just stays empty, a little bit of some some groundwater things. But those are relatively low cost. We we do have a responsibility to clean up certain aspects of the site regardless of how it's used.

So can that be delineated for us?

We we can answer we can come back and answer that question.

Alright. Now in state law and in our code, there are certain requirements for the sale of property. And one of them is that you have two assessments of the value of the property. I've seen nothing done along those lines. I've heard that that you've contacted property assessment people, but I haven't heard what it is. We're selling this, sort of selling this, for $0. But what is the value of the property? And what is the value of the property uncleaned? And what is the value of the property if it is cleaned up?

I mean, I think you you you kind of answered it there when you said that we are seeking appraisers. And I and I'm I would expect that that will have to happen before council act before it comes to full vote for council because as you said, it's a requirement of the code.

So this is scheduled for a public hearing Monday night before the city council, which I think we really have to reconsider that. This

this has already had a public hearing.

I have the sale of city owned property is for July 14. I I really am I I think we need to have a lot more specific information. Where in subsection six, where did the seven years come from? And what does it mean? It says, the deed transfer shall include a reverter clause provided that the resiliency authority ownership of the property shall revert to the city seven years from the date of transfer.

Suppose this all goes in this really unknown largely to the public path where it goes to the resiliency authority, it gets cleaned up for $4,000,000, a real real estate development goes on East Side or West Side, which I think we need to know a lot more about. What what does that mean when it comes back to us? Do we own now the Hakka property?

Yes. Right. The the Hakka property would be developed under some sort of a ground lease. And and we would be the lessor. Early on, while the property is owned by the resilience authority I mean, I think we're drifting a little bit of the way out of environmental matters, but we're again, we're we were kind of here to to explain some of the environmental aspects and a little bit of the why we're doing this, getting into the mechanics of the these legalities is I I feel is probably best to do with the law office.

And I did But

again, the idea is if if we if there were no contamination, right, we would be leasing this property out to Hakka or the developer. It would I think that's the intent, not not to sell it or to transfer it. So none of that none of this really changes any of those plans.

Well, none of those parts have come to the council either. So and I did request that the city attorney be here, and I think Ashley Leonard really would be the best person, and she can't be here. So I think there's many, many contract, including how we complying with our own city code, let alone the state code in terms of surplusing property, which when you're selling it for zero, pretty much feels to me like we're surplusing property. And we haven't seen the rigor that needs to be done to to comply with doing that.

I mean and that is the point of of paragraph six is to is to make it clear that is this is not giving this away forever. This is a temporary get it off our books, make us eligible for a grant, then it comes back to us. Is this is a transfer, you know, a name only.

Okay. No.

That's not what this this is a sale.

I know that. But that's why but the paragraph is six is extremely important. It's a city. The property reverts back to the city.

Okay. I I think there's I mean, I could go on. I'd love to know why seven years. Why not five? Why not three? Why not ten? I think so

we're

not Loop seven is the life of the grant.

Not gonna be able to resolve this today anyway because I mean, typically, the code requires we we this shouldn't even be in committee until after the public hearing. I don't understand why this is sent to committee before. Cynthia, do you happen to know why? It's only agenda Monday for a public hearing, but we can't actually talk about this in committee until after the public hearing. Why is it even on our agenda today?

Or tomorrow? Well, I mean, it would require suspension of the rules for any committee to take action before public hearing. I understand. No. I don't

I don't do We are

Well, it would be have to be addressed by the Resilience Authority, not by the Yeah. But at the next meeting, we can get the Resilience Authority. In the office. So for today, I think, I do want we I do want we still have a presentation from the heritage commission on this property. I wanna hear from them. We also have other business. So just to go down some of the I think, committee members can send questions. If wanna you send to me, I can file them. But the ones I have are I think we do wanna get some clarity as far as a parcel map if we get that uploaded with the staff report.

And also identifying Weemswell, and I Yeah. That identifies place over here.

The fields and the which parcels that could be transferred temporarily. If we get the phase two summary, I think the report should be attached, but also we can work on a summary for the next committee meeting. That'd be

ideal. That's a presentation in per it that's a presentation.

Yeah. That'd be fine. That's fine. Yeah.

We also need to know from the CNI people. Yes.

Okay.

NMDE. Yeah. Okay. Hold on.

I I alright. So the other things I think would be a a timeline helpful with this I know there's a lot up in the air still, but I think it would at least help me. What's the projected timeline as far as how this plays in, the remediation plays in with the CNI? Clearly, need to get another update on CNI. That because that's what I'd rather have our work session.

I I that's really what this feels like to me is that all of these topics could, you know, be, you know, the entire city staff, everybody who's got a piece of this at a full work session rather than committee by committee, a lot of overlapping questions most likely, and and then as we've seen here with not the right staff to answer them.

Yeah. We can so we could certainly do a joint just a regular work session.

But with the proviso that all of the members get the information ahead of time, so we're just not getting fire hose here with all this information, then we can be able to analyze C and I, the the environmental the information, all of those things, the estimates of the remediation, the value the value of this property. I I know you say that we're giving away, we're gonna get it back, but it is saying sale. And once it says sale

We can address we could try to address that, but I do the bottom line is that I think we do need to get this this grant money to help with remediation regardless of what happens. So it's a matter of just ironing out some of these details. But the other information that's been requested would be so it's clarity on so this is something we may need wanna think about as a committee as far as an amendment to this. The number six, perhaps, but we'll need to work the law office as far as clarity on the that this will, in fact, come back to the city in seven years. But, also, I'm wondering if we should include a provision that says or or sooner if requested by the city council. Because if

Yeah. Don't know. I agree. I'm not So I wanna know why it's taking seven years.

I I suspect that's just a I assume they don't know how long the C and I but in order to fully under understand this, we need to understand CNI and where that is. I frankly have no I don't really know. I'm all I know is they awarded, the the contract, I think, to a developer to I don't know too much beyond that. So for the C and I, I guess we'll need some more information on that. Yep. Maybe we could circle up after and figure out if we wanna push for work something else on that. MDE, would you have recommendations on what would be helpful at this point from MDE?

I don't think MDE is providing recommendations. They're allowing the consulting and the environmental team to address how they think to bet to best remediate. MDE's

I couldn't hear that.

MDE's not trying to provide recommendations. They're a review agency. They're going to review the recommendations from our environmental team. If you want our environmental team to have recommendations ready for you for the presentation, I can ask that of them.

As far as levels of contamination on I'm calling it all three pieces of property, one being Wynn's Whaling.

Right. So so the levels of contamination, you mean the level of contamination that is there?

That must be mitigated.

Oh, I so the remediation standards can be found in writing. We don't need MDE here to tell us that. But they are But our consultant can get that information.

Well, and that's fine, but they are the ones who are going to evaluate it at the end of the day.

At end the day, all of our work will have to be approved to by make sure that it complies with their standards. That is correct.

As I was trying to say, they're the ones at the end of the day who will determine whether we're in compliance. So that's why I said MDE. If you feel someone else can provide it as long as this it's the accurate information from MDE.

Yeah. And it it sounds like we can

Clean up cleanup standards, I think,

is really where we're going. Yeah. I think we can get that information from the control. Yes. The remediation requirements, general review of the contamination, but I think we'll get some idea of that in the phase two. As far as c and I, I know this is c and I mentioned in this resolution? Mm-mm. No. So I guess that's still up in the air, though.

I'm wondering and ground lease isn't mentioned. All of those things that are Alright. We'll have to give us more thought.

But is there anything else I'm missing on this?

Mister chair, I would like a simple answer to the question, why sale and not transfer? I think it concerns all of us that we're talking about the sale of our property to the Resilience Authority.

Sounds like a law office.

Right. Okay. Why just not transfer is more tentative than

And then I think the the other question had we had was for law. Question on a guarantee that this will come back.

Right. That's part of the sale or transfer. And

Alright. Anything else?

Double of contamination.

Miss Jackson, I will send this to you.

Well, you know, I I think I would like to ask the question as to whether

Who wants to meet in this?

Before us or staff.

I'm trying to talk to staff why we couldn't just offer this property to a purchaser as it. Is there some restriction that would force us to clean it up before we give it or sell it? That's the question. We've talked about a third party. So, obviously, there's somebody who is interested, tentatively maybe, in owning this property.

Is there a requirement that we clean it up before There

is no requirement. Somebody could come make us an offer. City could accept that offer, sell the property.

Okay. So has that responsibility.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. They've become responsible for any cleanup at that point. Right. Absolutely.

So has there been a consideration or I mean, who's is this coming out of the mayor's office? Is this coming out of DPW? Is it coming where is it coming from? Why this

is from? The direction that we have been going with this property is that the city would maintain responsibility and, to not divest of the property has come from the administration, I will say. City manager and mayor all along throughout this process. It has always been conveyed to me that the city is not interested in selling it outright.

Okay. Well, you know, it's unfortunate that we didn't have that discussion.

Yeah. I know. But difficult.

Alright. Well, I think that's So what I guess we have Yeah. From staff.

So just to but I think we need to note that I think having a work session is a great idea. So everybody's hearing this at the same time. But then either after the work session or some subsequent time, it will have to come back to committees because we don't vote on legislation in a work session. So Mhmm. If there's some notion that this is gonna be happening quickly, I I don't see how it can. But personally, do I think whatever the value of this property, it's we should do it quick. I think we should think about it and be responsible and get all the information. We we have time. If we

can get all we can get some of these this information and the meeting scheduled in July and September, it'll be okay. Alright. I think that's all we have for staff. Thank you very much. Thank Mister Wharton from the Heritage Commission, would you please join us and give us your presentation? Miss Jackson, could you get his presentation up? Is the green light on?

Now it's brighter. Now you can hear me better. I'm sorry. I'm Robert Worden, vice chair of the Annapolis Heritage Commission. And as July 2 meeting just last week, they we passed a resolution directing me to come to this committee meeting to talk about the property DPW property as well. You've I I surprised to see my presentation on on the screen. I do not want you to suffer through. This is a long presentation that I gave to the an apples history consortium several years ago, in fact, in 2018. I have paper copies and I think you also have

Show take.

The digital copy, but you're welcome to the paper copies. And I also brought the reason I'm here is not so much as vice chair, but I've done intensive historical research of the civil war era on this property, the west portion, a little bit on the east portion. And okay. Fine. Thank you.

Thank you. We we hear a lot about Annapolis in the colonial era, of course, and even in the modern the modern era, there are a lot of lot of awareness of that. Not so much about the civil war era, which is a very important piece of our history that we we need to know more about. Miss there's also this other handout. So, mister Wharton, it's a very detailed are you gonna go through

this presentation or is this

No. I hadn't planned to. No. We don't It would take too it would take too much of your time. I really wanna get I can fast forward this a lot. You know, you're all familiar with their parole camps in Annapolis. There were three parole camps. The Saint John's campus, Saint John's College campus, then later grew is over in basically we call the Forest Drive corridor today. And then finally, in the area between Chincoten, Round Road, and Solomon's Island Road, the third camp that was they got bigger, bigger, and biggest. They also were army hospitals in Annapolis.

Naval Academy and Saint John's College became army hospitals. Was not not so well known about these what they call camps of instruction. And during the civil war, at any one given time, were upwards of 90,000 troops in Annapolis and outside Annapolis being trained to go fight the war. One of those camps instruction was on colonel John Walton's farm. Now colonel John Walton's proprietor, the city hotel, which basically is where the Hillman Garage is today and we still have a remnant of it on Conduit Street.

He had a 192 acres out there between West Street and today's Hilltop Lane. Hilltop Lane Hilltop Lane was not there at the time. And from Spa Road on out roughly to about where South Cherry Grove is today. There's a 192 acres. That was his farm to support his hotel which was the big hotel of Annapolis of the stay, and also to serve the the mark the farm markets with his his crops.

The army took all that over and this is where I've done some intensive research because colonel John Walton at the end of the war putting claims for the excessive damage done to his property. So that led me to get more interested than ever in this property and in this other submission here is excerpt from a book I wrote about about Saint Mary's Parish during the civil war, but colonel John Walton was a parishioner of Saint Mary's. In fact, he was one of the lead parishioners of of the parish, very important member of the parish. So this is where historical data is. It's got footnotes more than you'll ever expect maybe.

So what I'm I'm looking for here, guess the question make this as as simple as possible. Back in 2010 when Forest Drive is being expanded, the Annapolis History Consortium which is a different organization from the Heritage Commission, but I've been involved in that since 1992, the history consortium. We are the the local history police so to speak who research everything about Annapolis. Back in 2010, we had requested the the city, the county, and that that rent that expansion of the road to give a chance for some historic some archaeological investigations, not to do a full full bore archaeology, but to get in, do some test units, surface investigations where it's you all know where the Safeway parking lot is. The the the scavengers for decades referred to that parking lot areas the button fields.

They found so many civil war buttons and bullets and other accoutrements from that period and earlier periods and and of course later periods. Well, nothing happened to our our request that something be done, you know, to at least take a look. No. It was ignored. We tried again in 2020 with the Hudson Street DPW site and gave substantial amount of information about historical use of that property during the civil war era.

And all we asked for if a trench is built is dug, do some monitoring to see if there's any any artifacts to be so they could be retrieved and saved part of our city history. That never happened. So I'm coming you today to really to request that somehow we build into this whole process because this is part of our cultural history. Not just colonel John Walton, he had enslaved African Americans working and living on that property who ran his farm for him. It was a very important support farm to the city.

It's very important to The United the Federal Army to use because they took charge of it for four years and eventually the government did give him some reparations, some war claims. But to to build into this process, let's take a look, a surface investigation. Now I know the eastern side of the property has been much changed and and has been leveled and re leveled and filled and but I I my sense is that the western part which is where Walton's farm was did not go through this same level of of disturbance so to speak. I know there's been a lot of disturbance there of course you can see it visually. But how far back to that property goes into a wood line?

That would have all been cleared during the civil war period and was was used as an encampment. And I do wanna point out, as I I skipped my own note, that Burrow Camp Number 2, which I said was along Forest Drive corridor included part of Walton's Farm, not as far up probably as the the DPW site. So this this is the information to the other story and oh gee, we didn't know that. Well, the documentation I found the National Archives some 500 pages of documentation it says, yeah, this is part of the the parole camp. So that's part of our that's a very important part of our history, our city's history and and culture.

So what I'd be looking for is a surface investigation where some archaeologists walk the property. Is there anything that potential areas have been it's been totally disturbed, there's nothing worth looking for. But but do it. Have the investigation. And then they have the opportunity either during the remediation or during construction, whatever that may turn out to be, to do some sample test units in these likely spots. Archaeologists can see things that the rest of us can't see sometimes and they're they're they're they're going along just the surface. They can find a spot. Okay. Let's let's try this. Maybe find something, maybe not.

We hope they do and we preserve a little bit of that our our our city's history. And then to monitor any excavate once, I know you've had this big discussion with the DPW people, When construction whatever that is begins that that the city require that there be monitoring. I'm not talking about full scale archaeological digs that would be wonderful, but I don't think that's gonna happen. But to monitor this, to to capture any artifacts that that might come out of the come out of the ground. That's basically my my pitch.

As and from the Heritage commission itself, I from my personal standpoint, I was getting a little bit drifted back to this other other discussion is the question about, you know, what should be the distribution disposition of this property and I would hope that, you know, maybe some of it could be saved especially that western part which is near the Bates Legacy Center, the senior center near the Spock Creek Trail, but maybe that could become more of an amenity for the city. Maybe some of the other side too. That's that's that's a personal part. The the Heritage Commission didn't doesn't have a dog in that particular game, but I I wanted to add add to that too. But I'd be happy to answer any any questions or add more details.

Thank you. And, so any questions from the

Not a question. Alderman Arnett? Seems to me that what we need to consider from the council perspective is a resolution allowing some kind of monitoring by the heritage commission. But it's really, the city staff, Matt and city manager coordinating with the DPW and others. I have no idea how much this would how much time it would take and how much potential interference the monitoring would take, assuming that we do any of this.

Mhmm. But, I would certainly be interested in, thinking about sponsoring a resolution after we get the facts about interference to allow monitoring. I mean, part of Annapolis is its long, history, and, I think, I wish all the women, Kendall Charles, were here, I think, celebrating parole and the important part that it had in our city's history has always been important to her. So I I find sympathy for this request.

Order Alderman?

Yeah. I I agree. For some reason, I thought we had an automatic, response to construction, and maybe it was just in the historical district. But I thought that there had been some acknowledgment that there would be even a cursory evaluation before construction was allowed to continue. I I don't know whether we have any mister Warden, would you remember any such process that was in place?

Or, you know, when we did the Bates Legacy Heritage Park, I think we had an archaeological

Probably. Evaluation. Just county property. Right. Right.

And for some reason, Pinkney Street, Horn Hill, those streets and I don't know whether it was when we were doing the sidewalks or thinking about putting in curbs or what, that there was, because I remember us being delayed down there because of some archaeological significance being

Well, yeah. It's definitely a historic district. It's Please.

Yeah. Yes.

So They they were I think within historic district, you know, of of course. And it when they're doing some work at at City Dock four or five years ago, I think one or two days of an archaeologist down there and she was monitoring Mhmm.

A

trench, and she found some artifacts. She got down in the trench in the mud and found artifacts which I don't know what happened to them but they they were discovered. Outside the historic district, it would be wonderful if there was because there's a lot of history outside the historic district that we need to pay attention to. There's, you know, hundreds of years of history outside the historic district. I wouldn't encourage I think I've described a very kind of a minimalist approach of a surface collection that's maybe one day, two days of someone's time, professionals time.

The the maybe a test unit or two if they find something a likely hotspot could that could turn out to be some weeks maybe. However, you know what happens if they find human remains which is possible on a property like this. If if there's some undisturbed truly undisturbed land, well, that's a whole another game then. And that would have to be that that that also has to be addressed. So we're not I think don't think we're looking for something, you know, a major project like Historic Annapolis University of Maryland got involved in.

I I was involved in the archaeology at Saint Mary's five year project over there. It's all done through grant money. The city may have put a little into that, mostly it's county and state money. But, yeah, I would encourage any anything that's that you this committee can can do.

Yes. Thank you. And did you have anything else? So yeah. Thank you. I good to hear from the commission. Please share your your your wishes on this. I think, miss Jackson, if you could add to the list that I just emailed you, law the law office could work on an amendment. I think even if it's just the whereas in the ordinance that mentions just so this is on the record, mentions the Heritage Commission's findings as far as this being as part of the camp. You know, I think the committee we may wanna think about so because I do think it should be connected to the remediation.

The rest the ordinance is just about buying a mechanism to get money to do the remediation, but where the remediation is gonna come into play is with the CNI. And so I think the bigger question is how do we get this the awareness of the potential history and need to do an archaeological assessment or monitoring? How do we get that attached to the CNI? And to the older woman's point, I think many years ago, I would think I was looking at legislation to require try to figure out how to require archaeological assessment or monitoring like you've mentioned. And I don't believe there's anything currently in the code, but it is a general practice in the historic downtown.

But what I was thinking is maybe we could give some power to the commission to at least give a recommendation to staff or to make it known when particular projects in your judgment should have some kind of monitor. Yeah. That's kind of what I'm kind of what I'm thinking. So let's see. I guess that's about it. Do you have anything else you wanna add on this?

No. Just thank you for for giving me some time. Appreciate it.

Oh, I do I do have a question. Do you know where the the primary structures were for the farm or for the slave

In in my presentation, there the maps were submitted to the US Court of Claims and that shows where the structures structures were. Okay. So there there were there were some I think there were some on the DPW site. There were others, you know, the the headwaters of Spot Creek is right next door to DPW, and there were some on both sides of that creek, but up, you know, up on the, you know, the hard land. Walton had dammed up the creek there and had a pond there for us to make ice in the winter. Oh. The cavalry came in and had their torsos drink in it, so you can imagine what that that water tasted like.

Interesting. Okay. Well, thank you again

and Thank you.

Yes.

If I may, Jackie Gyle, deputy city manager for resilience and sustainability. So, I just sent a message to John Tower regarding whether there has been any archaeological assessment or survey there or any plans to do one or any monitoring. We'll wait to hear back from mister Tower. Okay. And then also, there I heard a comment earlier, that about the membership of the board of the resilience authority. The city only had one person on that. There are three there are three members on the board that represent the

city. Voting members? Voting members, though?

Voting members.

I thought we had one voting, but we had other staff like yourself.

So the board of the Resilience Authority is composed of 12 members, three of which were appointed by the mayor and then the remaining nine from the county, voting members. Then there is a separate advisory committee that is made up of staff from the city and the county.

Who are the voting members for the city?

From it's a good question. They've rotated, and I don't remember off the top of my head who they are right now. I apologize. I can I can find that out for you easily?

Yeah. It'd be good to know.

K. So let me repeat. So there are 12 members of the authority, nine of whom are county appointees and three are city appointees. That is correct. Thank you. You're welcome.

If the rest of the committee would be agreeable to this, I'd like to move mister Meekin's up on the agenda before the resilience update. I can ask Oh, sorry. Thank you. Yes. I would love to get a okay. Motion to put there's a motion to postpone, ordinance. Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. And this is our next meeting. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. The motion carries, and we lost our off representation. But well, this is where it was here, but I'm Well, she left we floor should probably miss Jackson, think we're gonna be willing to have somebody notify the committees that they can't be taking final action this until November. Thank you.

Well, rules is tomorrow. I think

I don't think we're gonna have a different outcome.

We have representation for rules right here, so I don't think you have to worry about that. I don't know what I can is it? Economic matters?

But I did make a specific by email request that the office of law be here for this meeting, because I knew we were

gonna get I saw something from mister Weil.

I and I personal should come. But I think Ashley is probably the best person from law, but she's not the only person. Good point. But we're only the counsel. We don't really matter.

Well, make sure someone from the law department, hopefully, Ash, is there tomorrow.

Well, I mean, Megan, personally, I've I've seen more value in getting an update on c and I than I do on some doc expansion. I

know it's.

Holy cow. Mister Meekins, thank you for your patience.

He's being entertained.

So you want to To say we have always. Could introduce yourself and then highlight any kind of updates you may have?

Sure. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Mike Meakin, senior planner in current planning, the Department of Planning, New City, Indianapolis. Again, thanks for having me and the purpose of my visit here at your request is to give you a brief update on several of the or brief update on large project large scale development projects that are currently in the permitting process and or being actively developed at this time.

So I provided a spreadsheet via email to you. Actually, there are two versions and the second one, I also printed out a hard copy just because I found a couple edits that I could make. So with that in mind, just generally noting that to read the spreadsheet, everything in blue really has not changed since my last appearance here last month. The items that are not highlighted that are actually in white have changed, and I'll go through those and certainly stop me or ask questions along the way. But the first and foremost is on page one, Gris Griscom Square at the intersection of Tyler Avenue and Bay Ridge.

It's a twelve twelve unit subdivision that has been dormant for quite some time. There was a free startup and some plan redesign to locate utilities, came in for revision due to unexpected other utilities interfering with the proposed work. So that said, the the project actually has recently come back to life. DPW had a preconstruction meeting actually yesterday with the new developer who the new developer developer is Ryan Development Group LLC. Their intent is to start with reestablishing the LED, the limited disturbance, and sediment erosion control features for the construction as early as next week.

So I would imagine phones are gonna be ringing with residents wondering what's going on. So that is that is to start next week. Phase one after the reestablishment of the LOD, Phase one would be the installation of underground utilities, namely storm drain that's gonna come down Tyler Avenue, which will be daytime working hours, and that's gonna affect, considerable considerably affect traffic as you would imagine. To speak on that, the traffic control plan is being updated and will be resubmitted to the city for approval approximately two weeks from next week. So that is basically the road map as to how to maintain and direct traffic around this this installation of the storm drain at Tyler Avenue.

For day day work or night work? Day work. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know which ones we get less complaints about. They're both But have challenges.

When this was two years ago, more live by the way, what is LOD?

The limit of disturbance. It's the basically, the construction envelope.

Okay. So Bur Vogel was brand new on the job. I was on vacation in Maine, and he called. And as it happens, my sister lives right by this, a block away. And it there were two options at that point.

One was a week of daytime work or, a concentrated period of time at nighttime. Obviously, nighttime construction noise disturbs the neighbors, but that that is an incredibly busy, important intersection. Almost anything will back up traffic in all directions. And I I guess I'd like to know what kind of input the two older persons who are sitting here that are joining this property have about work at night as opposed to during the day? And I know that's DPW kind of question. But Well, part of it,

presumably, if you could look into this, I know in the county, what we do is if an arterial roadway, which essentially is what Hilltop or Tyler is, we can't do any kind of work during morning or evening rush hour. Oh. So we're limited between, like, nine and and

Three Yeah. O'clock

Right? Yeah.

So that would be one potential and and probably even earlier on Fridays. But that could, I think, be a potential that could work and on traffic control if we don't wanna

do night. Yes. So that would be articulated in the traffic control plan, and I can certainly relay the message to DPW and then circle back with, you know, any answers or comments that they suggestions they might have. To Alderman Arnett's point, I do recall two years ago when this basically was starting up. I do recall pushback from the residents and this is via, you know, the reading the capital newspaper pushback from the night work, and it's gonna keep everybody up at night. But, you know, I think either way, it's it's it's gonna be a rough couple of days or week or so for that installation of the storm drain, traffic wise anyway?

I think I'll try to be out of town.

May may I ask? Tyler Avenue is a very wide street. I would hope they'd make every effort to not close the street. You know, if they're over in Ward 8, then they have to close the whole street. But in Tyler Avenue, I would think that we would ask them to make every effort to keep a lane open.

Yeah. I I have not seen that plan, and, I would imagine they're well aware they're gonna have, you know, companies such as, like, Flaggerforce who basically come in and they put cones up, signs up. They have personnel station to direct traffic

Mhmm.

Whether it's close a lane, peer you know, from time to time and have one way traffic. I honestly I saw a plan yesterday that the the engineer who hosted or was present for the preconstruction meeting, it looked like the pipe they're putting in is basically dead center in the middle of Tyler Avenue.

Of course. And

and from what I understand, it's it's pretty deep. It's like 10 feet deep. So with that depth, you also have to have a wider, again, LOD to be able to excavate, install, and then put the earth back and and paving back. So I understand your point and it's noted. I will convey that as well to DPW.

Good point. And hopefully, what they'll look at is just a lane shift. Close street parking temporarily and

But it's in the

middle of the street.

Well, they can they should be able to shift. Mhmm. Hopefully. We'll we'll see. But anyway, anything else on that project?

No. Other than I was gonna say that the demo permit for the the house that is there is in review right now. So I would it it it seems like everything's starting up. So you're gonna have clearing, you're gonna have eventually the the installation of that utility, that that storm drain, but you're also gonna have that house demo. So the public, obviously, because of where it's located, is going to be very curious. So I think your phones are gonna be ringing.

How many it's 12 units. So they have, well, one m one or two MPDUs?

They have two and actually they've already been constructed. They were constructed like immediately after the subdivision was approved. They were man pre pre manufactured homes that were brought in and assembled. So as you take the right off of Bay Ridge and go up the hill on Tyler, those first two houses on the left hand side are the MPDUs for this subdivision. And they've been, you know, they've been there for

a while. Yeah.

Yeah. Probably fifteen ten, fifteen years maybe.

Yeah. I don't understand that. How did they get those as MPDUs even prior to the approval of the plan? So

I don't know the lineage. When when I said the approval, I I meant the subdivision. But, honestly, I don't know the lineage and and the background. So I don't know. They they my mind my mind thinks that there must be a condition in the approval that they can get separate grading permits for those units and get them online prior to the construction of the rest of the development. But I I don't know if they answered that question.

This is one of the infamous zombie permits

that have been around for

a long time.

Just gonna ask ask about that and also where are the raccoons gonna go?

And the vultures. The vultures used to live in the houses. Yeah. You answered all my questions. I would love to have this project honor some of the changes that come about with the Tyler Complete Community Initiative. I know they already have all their approvals, but and it'd be ideal if we get them to agree to some of those.

This is close. I mean, it's close, but

it's not included. Is it? They're both on the same it's in the same neighborhood.

Yeah. But it's not in the Tyler the overlay. Well, I don't know. Is it in

the what you know, if it's on the overlay? The proposed overlay?

So it is. And I actually talked to mister Leshinsky about this, and it was included because it's more or less the the one bookend of Tyler Avenue as well as the other bookend of Tyler Avenue along Forest Drive. He really he really tried to point out that there wasn't much they can they could do with the with the Tyler Avenue initiative project on that site just simply because it was already approved. The plans have been approved. But I was looking at the plans yesterday, in fact, and they are they are providing some improvement of walkability.

There's gonna be a sidewalk from the intersection there right at Tyler Avenue as you go up Bay Ridge Avenue towards Hillsmere. There's no sidewalk there now. So, I mean, that is in in the grand scheme of things for comprehensive planning, that's a plus. But it's included in his in in his maps and and materials, but there was really no plan for that that corner.

Well, just to to I guess, kind of I I may have mentioned this before, but and I know I mentioned it with the tie there's the effort to reconstruct get a redesign for Tyler Avenue. And I've mentioned before that I'd like them to look at converting that traffic signal to traffic circle at the inter and so

At at at what intersection?

At the intersection of Bay Ridge Avenue and Ty Okay. So I don't know what kind of right way we have there or what's being proposed as far as their improvements, but I I guess one of my points is the proposed pedestrian improvements by the developer may wanna they should probably get put on hold until we figure out what we're doing with that section of Tyler Ave. I'd hate to have them install brand new sidewalk than have it torn up because that's the next that's, I think, the first project in our list to actually have a road reconstruction on. But, anyway, we might need to coordinate with public works. Understood.

I don't know who the PM is for that particular project. Alright. Do we move on to another project? Parole Place update?

Yes. So, really, Raskom Square was the meat of of this update. But Parole Place, I I have that unhighlighted just because I wanted to mention that the applicant, the developer has submitted their subdivision plats for review,

which,

you know, they as I recall, I was in the hearing, but the plan development was approved last last year around this time. And it's taken a while for them to get the plans the subdivision plats in for review for whatever reason. Anyway, they are in now, which is a sign that things are progressing. Once they do get the subdivision approval, which has been conditionally approved by the planning department, but once they're reviewed by city staff, DPW, and and current planning, they will be signed and recorded and that would be the mechanism for many things. But it it it would be a combination mechanism for fee simple lots.

And then the thought is once they have that recorded, they can come in for building and grading permits. I don't know their timing on the building and grading permits, but just to let you know that those plats are being reviewed currently. So that project is moving.

So I guess I'm maybe I'm not as facile, but I thought over the approval status, the subdivision was twenty seventeen. All of these things have twenty seventeen dates. So sounds like something newer than 2017 is happening.

So with the with regards with respect to the subdivision, the twenty seventeen was there the tracking number assigned to it when it was originally submitted. Okay. They had pro preliminary plat approval with the plan development, and now they've come in with the final plat.

Okay. The other point I wish to make, I don't know what the process is, but this is Rhonda Alderman Pullman Pindle Charles Ward. I I'd like to be sure that she knows that there's movement. I know she's worked on this project for a long time. And, I'm generally of the mind that we need to improve our process for letting older persons know when things are happening in their ward or coming to finance committee meetings or things like that. So I I would hope that someone could just send her an email and let her know the status.

I haven't seen her in about two weeks, but I I run into her periodically, and and she definitely reaches out to Oh, I know. Ask the question, and you bring that to my mind, and she has not reached out. So Yeah. That's kind of unusual. So but I I that's noted and

I busy running the campaign.

Well yeah. Understood. The next one Mister,

before we move on on that point, mister Meakins, could we just send these regularly when you present to us to all of our colleagues and say check it out, see if you have anything on it?

Yeah. Absolutely.

They'll put the the onus on us, you know, to follow-up.

Yeah. That that's that's not a problem. If I might take a second to ask, if I am gonna be a regular participant on a monthly basis at this meeting, if you can say yay or nay because I I basically, you know, obviously, I have a sizable workload, but I didn't realize the agenda wasn't published for this meeting until, like, Tuesday afternoon. So it didn't give me a lot of time to bring everything up to speed. It wasn't a problem.

But if I'm gonna come here regularly, then I can get you this and your the rest of the council members, you know, a week or two weeks earlier than today, this meeting?

Yeah. I'd say plan on every every two months, perhaps. That'd be Well sufficient.

I guess, or if it changes. But as it happens, I was talking to director Kubiak about this very thing on Friday afternoon. I think we've got to get stuff our agendas posted much earlier. I I think ten days in advance. Chris was making the point that it's hard for staff. You know, they get sort of last minute notice that something is on the agenda. And we do too. We kinda get it at the last minute. If you're not on the chair of the committee, you don't know either. And it takes time to work on these things and to be aware of it.

And so I I think that's something we need to do. I think we've gotten better with the city council meetings. We're getting those agendas locked in much earlier. But I think all of these agendas. The this morning, the rules agenda was not up on I'd legislate for tomorrow.

Well, let's we can talk to the city clerk's office about that, see if we can if there can be if there's room for improvement there.

But it helps the staff too because

they I need understand. I I wanna make sure we keep moving, though. I wanna get out of here around five. Okay. Rock Rocky Gorge, and we still have another update lengthy update from the manager's office.

Rocky Rocky Gorge, another another just minor update. I went through and looked at specifically, I put the ex some expiration notation in here. I have no new information about any new developer, nothing credible, but I did just make a note that the the grading permit that was previously issued has been canceled. Excuse me. I don't know.

Yeah. That was canceled. And then, the building permit for, one, actually retaining wall has been voided. So, really moving forward, whoever comes in to possibly develop that is going to have to go through site design review for the architecture of the houses and structures that are gonna go on the property, and they'll have to go through the building and grading permit process again.

Yeah. Do these projects ever die? Well,

they they essentially have at this point. They're gonna have to resubmit through everything. But it also has went out to auction.

Yeah. That I I heard I heard that it went on auction, but I have no idea. Yeah.

Where how do you is that a fact that it went up for auction?

Somebody sent me the newspaper blurb about it.

So we don't have notice for or information on another developer?

Correct. I I I don't have anything that I can I can report other than what Alderman Savage just said, but I I I've not seen that in writing? It's just hearsay regarding the auction.

You know, I thought we were gonna buy it.

Well, I was hoping. That's why I was if it was up for auction, that's a problem. Wait. They murdered us.

Yeah. Alright.

I'm gonna call him, though. I'll let you know if I learn anything.

Alright. And last one on here, village of Providence Point.

Yeah. Yeah. So last one, Villages, at Providence Point. The applicant, similar to, Pearl Place, their plat submission, they had they had submitted their record plat and it's been conditionally, I'll say, conditionally approved by the city. It's right now being circulated for signature and that basically is a process that the applicant will get signatures from the owner, the health department, deliver the plat to the city, will get the chairman of the planning commission, DPW director, PZ director, and then basically that gets recorded.

So that is that's gonna be a recorded subdivision in the very near future.

So may I and so the appeal because it was filed, but they're

We have a follow-up status meeting next week with the with the the design team. They, similar to what I said last month, are thinking that the appeal is just about over. They're pretty confident that they're gonna be able to move forward, but no definitive yay or nay at at this time.

Mhmm.

And so they're proceeding as if they're gonna they will be able to construct this project. Both building and grading permits are in review right now, and they're they're basically coming down to the the final the final edits. So that is it's it's it's close on the horizon to being approved.

Thank you.

Alright. So I would like to move on. Thank no you. Other burning questions. The thing that I would like to just say, I guess, ask the committee, do we wanna I mean, I'm quarterly might even work if I'm sure that'd be better for you. But do we wanna do monthly every two months or quarterly updates from staff on

May I ask mister Meekins. Mister Meekins, what do you think? What's the regularity, or should it just be when there's significant changes?

Yeah. So, really, the the heavy lift was actually just getting this together, whatever, three, four months ago. I I guess my point is my point was in talking about the agenda, you know, if I know ahead of time, I can circulate I can update this and then circulate it around. Mhmm. I have no problem monthly.

I mean, every other month, that makes sense too. I I don't know necessarily what the mechanism would be if, you know, something comes back to life or we're we've got approval. What I can do is when that happens, I can edit it and send it. And then if you wanna hear from me, on that agenda, then I can be available. But, you know

Well, why don't you just plan on every few months? Okay. And, if we have something else, we'll just make sure we'll get it noticed. Mhmm.

We should get Unless there's something I mean, I get questions about these things all the time. But, I have to admit, like, on this last one, I I can't tell what has changed on this. You're giving us an oral report. So village is a providence point. I'm not seeing what the the new change is.

So that new change is under status. The last sentence subdivision plats are being circulated for signature. That's the change. You know, I can certainly highlight that in, you know, a different color.

Yeah. That would be cool.

That's a good idea. Yeah. Alright. Thank you. I would like And I

to say I told the director that we love you coming here, so you're you're stuck with us. Because this is

this is awesome. We've never had such a consolidated report. So thank you.

Alright. Thank you. I hope you all have a good day.

You too. You too. Alright. Acting city manager, Gyle, floor is yours for an update.

Do we wanna address mister Flinner while he's here first?

What what are you here for?

Oh, you're just for Sparrow. Okay.

Thank you.

Alright. First, I'd like to bring up our with Annapolis City intern program and, made a presentation to the interns about what we do with resilience and sustainability in the city manager's office. And one of the

Miss Dow, could you speak into the mic?

You're Okay. So from the Annapolis City intern program, we made a presentation on resilience and sustainability and what we do. And, from that, we had an intern that wanted to work with us, so we interviewed her and we selected her to work with us until August 8. So I'd like her to come up at this time so she can introduce herself and tell us, where she's from, where she goes to school, what she's studying, and what she's working on now for the city of Annapolis.

Hello. Nice to meet you. My name is Jennifer Andrea Gomez Gallardo. I am a rising sophomore at Boston College. I'm studying political science and history on the prelaw track. I'm here to be an intern under GACCI, and I've been working on doing some research currently on EV and how to I'm sorry. How to transition the city fleet into being an electric being more EV friendly. So I've been looking at different policies from different counties and different min municipalities and jurisdictions in order to provide a report or more like, to Jackie so that we can get this legislation going.

Great. Thank you. Thank you.

Welcome aboard. For your help.

She's been very, very helpful. She's looking at all of the codes, laws, policies, programs, different incentive programs in all of the Maryland jurisdictions. And she's very modest. She's on a full ride to Boston College, which is very impressive.

Thank you. Thank

you. You.

Welcome. So

I I highlighted for you in the the highlights for this month when I sent it out that we have hired for the second environmental program position. Yes. We just completed that the other day. I mentioned last time we had a 189 applicants. All but five, I would say, are very highly qualified. You could step right into this job. So it was a tough decision. I brought about 10 back for an interview, and then from that group interviewed for for the second round in person. So we selected Ashley Diaz. She is currently the sustainability manager for the city of Bowie, and she lives in Glen Burnie.

She's doing very similar work that, basically could step into the role and just learn the city. But she will have, besides project management grants and that sort of thing and legislative help, she will be heavily focused on communication and outreach of public education. She does a lot of that and is very good at it for the city of Bowie right now, and that's an area where we've been wanting to improve and do more. So she will start with us August 21.

Good one. Excellent. Yep. Did she help with some enforcement?

We're gonna

have to talk about enforcement and how we handle that. So we're busy, and I wanna have her fully at working at maximum very quickly. So that's something that's a discussion to have with planning and zoning. Planning and zoning really does not want to focus on environmental law environmental law enforcement. They wish to work within building code, and that's what they see as their mission, and, something to consider as we implement more and more environmental laws.

Yeah. I mean yeah. I I would suggest if we convince public works to do a trial to see how if to see how their if their inspectors can help, especially during the off season for them, which is winter, fall and winter.

Right. And right now, we haven't had polystyrene foam band, great compliance with that. We don't issue citations under that. We don't issue citations. The plastic bag ban in the very beginning, we issued a few warnings, and then we've had great compliance with plastic bag ban.

It's the gas powered leaf blower ban which is causing us the biggest headaches right now. We're hoping that with the third public information campaign that we do once we launch the rebate program that that will improve. And on that note, we are very, very close to finishing our contract with the Chesapeake Bay Trust so that we can launch that program as soon as possible. We have a $105,000 in this first year to work with to provide rebates to both the residents and the commercial landscapers. We are slowed down by the Resilience Authority in deciding whether or not they could take this project on and then deciding they could help in some ways but not administer the program.

Their contractor did help us select the Chesapeake Bay Trust as an administrator. We've been negotiating with the trust over the administrative fee. I mentioned that during the budget process. We used to have a 5% fee with all of our contracts with the trust. They wanted 20%. I think we've I have negotiated them to 10%. There might be an escalation clause with that. I'm working those detail details out with the office of law right now. So once we get past this final paragraphs we have to work on on the contract, we can launch the program. So I'm hoping that with that, we will immediately do our public education campaign and get better compliance.

Compliance. We just learned recently that some contractors are doing innovative things like turning gas power leaf blower bands into bug sprayers. And whether that's a violation, yes. That is a violation.

Doing what?

Turn them into insecticide sprayers for bugs. You know, people use them not just for leaves. You know, these include gutters and clean out your garage and other things, but that was first. I thought that was very innovative. But that is also a violation because the ordinance bans the use of gas powered leaf blowers. And the point is that they're it's a noise ordinance. They're very noisy, and they're still emitting carbon and all kinds of things, and they're still, noisy when you use them even to spray insecticide. So that is a violation. We had an inquiry just recently about that. We've had a lot of success lately in funding and being able to start programs that we've been working on for several months.

I just want to highlight some of those since we are running out of time anyway. Okay. On page two with our LED retrofit technology, we had the funding was provided in f y twenty six to contract with an store street light efficiency consultant. One we'd identified was tanker lighting. The point of that project was to do a feasibility study about whether it made sense for the city to acquire all of our utility poles that are lights and change them to LED.

And that study, we're moving forward with that, and we're gonna put out the contract with TANCO to do the study and the feasibility, analysis. A bit their their estimate initially is that by changing our infrastructure ownership and maintenance programs, we could save over $6,000,000 over a period of twenty years. So they're gonna do that study for us and make recommendations. We're moving forward with that. Then, on page three

On lights, are you thinking at all about when we're doing the LED lights integrating cameras?

So that is an option. We can look at that. We mentioned to them that we had spoken to BG and E and some other contractors before about multiple uses on utility poles, and that's something we can explore.

Right. Thank you.

K. On page two under ecological enhancement, I have the demonstration program to build green roofs and city bus shelters. That legislation did pass, and now we are charged with implementing it. I was gonna have a kickoff meeting with transportation and central services this week, but we had to change it till next week. We've already gone out and identified some potential bus shelters to use for the demonstration project. We did that earlier this year, but now we're we're gonna get together and talk about what is needed actually to do to kick this off, what are the next steps and timeline. So we'll we'll kick that project off next week.

I mean, it did the resolution passed, but we never actually allocated funding.

No. Funds have not been allocated for it. So as staff, we will talk about what next steps are and what we need to do, but we'll have to come back for funding.

Yeah.

And we have to we have to as I mentioned before, we need to do a little bit more research around exactly how much this will cost. We do have green roofs, as you know, on other buildings, but they're on large buildings and they're not on bus shelters. It's a little bit different. But with public works had already identified a company to do their maintenance work on our existing green roofs, so they are a good potential source of doing this project and to help us estimate what it would actually cost to do.

And just so you're aware, at Wednesday's, yesterday's was yes the transportation committee meeting

Yeah.

There is a safe route. See you there for a little bit, I think. The safe routes to transit program that the county is leading up heading up, but we are a part of that. And so the bus shelters may be seeing some changes as that program rolls out. So I would just I think it might be prudent just to kinda maybe gather some information, but maybe hold off on this until that's settled.

Okay. I can Marcus is more as part of the, you know, the group that I'm working with, so I'll definitely speak to Marcus about that. K. Making a note. Alright.

Alright. On page seven, under resilience building and habitat and ecosystem restoration, we have the 7 River Watershed Resilience Project. I mentioned this before. This is the five year grant that we received from MDE and DNR. And in the first year, we had nominated well, overall, between the city, the county, the resilience authority, and all of the stakeholders who are involved, we had identified about 40 different projects. So we we could select 10 depending on funding for the first year. Which

one are you on?

Page seven, 7 River Watershed Resilience Project. Yes. This is a state grant under a state piece of legislation. The city submitted a grant through the resilience authority with the county, and we were selected as the urban, group that would receive funds under this, grant program. So we'll receive $102,000,000 dollars in the first year, this year, and there have been a number of projects identified between the county and the city.

The city did I think we did well in the end. I didn't expect as many projects to be funded in the city. I can't tell you exactly where they are yet. There will be a press release later this month, and we at that time, this will be finalized. So this being a public meeting, I can't really say which ones they are, but I can tell you that there's some stormwater projects stormwater control projects in a major a parking lot of a major shopping center within city limits.

There's one at a church, and there's there's one at a park, a major park within city limits. There's also an oyster restoration component to this through the oyster recovery partnership, and that's through the city and the county, but there are some likely spots off on the Severn River off of the city shoreline where we'll have oyster restoration projects. But more specific information to come at the next time I report when the press release goes out. It'll go out probably at the end of this month or early in August on those programs. And then we have four more years of funding for other projects.