City Council - Regular Meeting

It's 5:30 and we will begin tonight's special meeting uh the agenda um for sewer and rate bond uh approvals and electric rates and uh we'll begin with invocation by Councilman Turner. Will you please stand? Dear God, we pray for wise guidance for our nation. We know that without it, we will fall. Please grant us the wisdom to seek out and listen to to the council of many councilors so that we may achieve victory. help us work together towards a common goal and make make decisions that are in the best interest for all.

Amen. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Will the clerk call the role? Councelor Turner, present. Council Harless, I am here. Councelor Dixon, I'm here. Councelor Freeman, here. Councelor Cole, here. Councelor Wagner, here. Councelor Landers, here. Councelor Newman, yes. President Graham,

here. Let the record show that the all nine members are in their seat. Uh we'll begin. Uh, I just have a couple of little things to say prior to introducing the mayor. Um, uh, I want the the public to know that, you know, we're here on January 22nd, special meeting, and those always start at 5:30. We on on February 17th, uh, we'll be at 5:30, another special meeting, and February 19th will be at 5:30. Um so the regular meeting in February which I believe is the 12th will be at six o'clock and they will we will not uh have any utility issues at the regular meeting. Those are kept separate from the regular issues that come before the council. So that's what we're looking at. I have one other thing to to add. Uh, Councilman Turner uh suggested that we need to take a look at our bylaws, our rules of operation, if you will, uh, for council meetings. And I took a look at them and he was absolutely right. They are antiquated. Uh, I think perhaps they were originally carved on stone tablets maybe.

But, uh, I began [clears throat] looking over all of us received a copy of those I think at the last meeting. I began going through it and you were right, there's lots that needs to be changed and some of the information there is not even applicable to today. So, I've begun doing that. I hope that certainly we want input from everybody here. uh we may need to have a work session as we as we get closer to uh bringing him to the council and I hope to do that in uh either March or April for council review and approval. Uh but January from now on hopefully uh we'll be focused on this the utility issues which are critical. So that's kind of my plan as we go forward over the next couple of months and I wanted you all to know that if you have something else you want to suggest, give me a call and certainly we'll take a look at it.

President Graham. Yes, sir. Also, while we revising, taking a look at uh the bylaws. Uh why don't you have the rest of this council to take a look at representation for the CI civilian review board? Yes,

we've this council has been intact for now over a year and I have not seen one member or their representative to come to that civilian review board. If you're talking about changing bylaws and to discipline Ali Dixon, you got another thought coming. Why don't y'all comply with what justice is all about? Equality for everybody, not just a few.

Let me speak to that. Okay. Um, and you and I have talked a little bit about this before. The Civilian Review Board, um, I have asked Rosemary Curry to get a copy of it and begin her review of it. Now, here's the deal. We have virtually four members that were never around when the civilian review board they don't know about it. This been going on, Greg. I know for uh we're in the third term, third four year term. And come on. Well, yeah, but it's we need we need to have some education. That's why I got Rosemary involved to bring everybody up to date to really understand what it's all about.

Fairness, equality. As long as you've been sitting on the council, you don't know what that's all about. I didn't say that, Ollie. Of course, I know what it's all about. But we have members that have never been exposed to it. And I hope to bring that back to the council in April or May. Greg, you've been six times I've counted. Six times you've been president of this council. Many, huh? It's not that many. I was only president once before this time. Come on. You've been president six times. I'll prove it to you. I was happy to sit down there with Joe Newman. You was 16 years as a Republican because you able to switch anytime you felt like it. But in your lies a lot. Let's do what's right for everybody. I'm with you all.

And you was down with uh taking away representation from the fourth district and simply you want to get rid of me. But the people out there is unhappy right now. Greg, you understand? No, I understand. I understand. But I want you to understand we are moving forward. I want it when I believe it when I see it. Okay. Well, you [clears throat] ask Rose. Talk is cheap. I I'm talking to you. I I understand. We will get to that. Following the bylaws. We'll see.

Yeah, we will. Um you can talk with Rosemary about it if you wish. Um she's, as a matter of fact, she's not here tonight because she's a deputy prosecutor and she had to take the Wait. I know. I talked to her, too. Okay, that's um that's what I wanted to uh inform the council of and it's my pleasure to introduce the mayor of the city of Anderson, Tom Broadick. Mayor,

thank you, Mr. President, and good evening, members of the council. Uh thank you so much for holding this meeting this evening. I'm Tom Brick, mayor of the city, reside at 16 Green Meadow Drive, Anderson, Indiana. U as you know the Anderson uh Board of Public Works uh has passed resolutions making recommendations to the council uh for the adoption of the legislation that you have before you tonight. I'm just going to make a few uh remarks and then I'm going to turn this over to Chris Dino who's our legal counsel uh with Bose McKenna to talk about uh some of the more details of this and then we have several other people here as well uh that will address the council. We have some other folks that are here that probably won't address the council, but we certainly stand here and ready to answer questions you may have, the public may have, and and or the press may have. Uh it's my understanding in talking to the president a few moments ago before we started, um that the preference is that we uh take each one of these utilities one at a time, uh which we will certainly do. In my opening remarks, I'm going to sort of cover both of them kind of quickly just to sort of give you the highlights of where all we're going to be going, sort of a summary, if you will. So, what we're asking tonight, the documents you have before you are ordinance request uh that will allow us to increase the sewer rates uh and also the electric rates. The uh sewer rates would be raised under this proposal by 18% on all uh customers. And the electric rates uh would be as far as there the electric rates there's 10 different classifications of different types of customers uh depending on their sizes. Um the overall total rate increase of that would be 12.58% with respect to the customers however that are residential customers that many of us are concerned about it would be 13.5% increase and we'll go through the reasons for those and the need for those here in a second. I do want to make sure that everybody understands that the

council is the final uh determin determiner if you will um with regards to the sewer rates. So your actions tonight and over the next couple of uh meetings that we have that you discussed a moment ago um will ultimately decide what those sewer rates are going to look like um on the other hand the Indiana the Indiana regulatory commission will be the final determinator of the uh electric rates and like the water case that we had before us last year uh with the uh with the electric case we you will basically be giving us authority to proceed with the filing of a case before the Indiana Regulatory Commission. And then they will have a very extensive overview of that and review of that and they will uh also it will take probably about 10 months or so to get that through the uh that through the process. During that period of time the office of consumer counselor which we refer to as the OUCC will act as a uh sort of an advocate so to speak on behalf of of consumers to make sure that everything looks appropriate. We do have strong confidence that at the end of the day, similar to the water case, uh that our position is very strong and we think that they would adopt uh our proposal once it gets through all that entire process. I do want to make sure and stress to all of you that I can assure you uh that we've all worked very hard on this side as I know you'll be concerned about that as well to make sure that uh rates are held as low as reasonably possible while at the same time making sure that we have the dollars that we need to be able to to carry forward with our utilities in the fashion that we all agree that they should be. Like I said, we do have several people here um this evening. Um, among those will be Ryan Pascal who's who's the head and superintendent of our water pollution control, Paul Cyverson with our electric utility, Chris Janok, who will be up here right after me, the legal counsel again for Bose McKenna, Jennifer Wilson with Crow Financial, Tim Lannon, uh, our assistant city attorney who's worked with very diligently with

respect to a, um, possible modification of our, uh, consent decree that we're operating under with regards to the water. um the wastewater utility, Doug Whittam, our uh city controller, David Iikes, our chairman of the board of works, and Chris Kaufman, who's with Eegis, which was formerly Beam Longus and Nef, who are the engineers on our sewer projects. The reason for these requests are that we we have a very urgent and desperate need for additional funds in both of these utilities. With respect to the sewer utility, the last time that there was an adjustment to those rates was in April of 2009. That was 17 years ago. [snorts] Um, since that time, according to the consumer price index, inflation's been about 55% since that period of time. Yet, we're still operating on the same amount of revenue coming in with the same rates that we were that many years ago. Um, so our net income coming in after expenses is is dwindling each and every u year and month really as we go by. And we are definitely on track to be in a situation where we're going to be spending more money than we're um than we're taking in. And we obviously cannot sustain under those circumstances and Jennifer will explain some of that here in a few minutes. Right now our rates are among the lowest in the state with respect to our uh sewer utility. In fact, and I think Jennifer may have some updated information, but the last information I saw on it was that out of the 39 cities and towns, uh, we were at number 29 at the B and towards the bottom. So, there was only 10 below us. And we actually have the the, um, our rates are the the oldest set of all those 39 cities. And so, um, we are very low. And in fact, with this adjustment, we would still remain in the midpack um probably at the most. Um, as an older community, uh, talking about

sewer here for a minute, as as an older community, we years and years ago, before any of us were around, even before Ali was around, uh, we basically had a sewer system put into place that basically allows for a combination of the sewer systems of both the sanitary sewer, which you think of terms flush in the toilet, your your actual sewage, that and then also our uh, storm water, which is the water that comes comes in as a result of big rainstorms or the melting of snow and so forth. And so all that eventually goes together into the same uh major sewer systems and then ultimately makes its way down to the to the sewer department where they clean the clean that and treat it and then discharge it into the river. However, uh when we have extraordinary rainfalls or we have a lot of snow and we have a lot of runoff and a lot of melt u then it becomes too much for the system to to take on. And so what happens is there are certain locations around the river where we have what we call CSOS which stands for uh combined sewer overflow and those open up and let this they discharge basically the combined combination of the uh sewage as well as the runoff from the the u from the storm water all goes out together into the river untreated. Uh obviously that's not something we don't want to see and it's something certainly the federal government and the state government doesn't want to see. This all really kind of came to a head um about 26 or so years ago uh when we had the fish kill and at that time uh guide corporation had discharged some things got into the river that killed a lot of fish and Tim is going to talk about some of this here in a little bit. Um but the result of that was eventually it was a lawsuit um that was taken by the EPA and IDM and also Department of Justice who represented uh EPA and they sued the city. They sued Guide and Guide was

fined substantially. Tim can talk a little bit about that and the city actually uh paid a $250,000 fine which sort of pald in comparison to what Guide had to pay but still nonetheless we we had to pay a fine as well. Um at that time we entered into the city entered into what was called a consent decree which is a a court judgment um that we set out certain things that had to be done. It set down a timeline in which those certain things had to be done. Um and then the the the the uh regulators the both the EPA and also the IDM continued to obviously look into everything that was going on in our community and they really then became probably more aware about the the csos than maybe they were before. And so when all that was was looked at, they determined that we had too many csos, too many occurrences of csos occurring and they wanted us to back those [clears throat] back those off. They wanted us to have as few as possible in a perfect world eliminate them completely um but certainly back them off from what they were back in those days, which was substantial. Maybe some of our engineers can speak to those those numbers that I don't particularly have off top of my head. So what happened was that after the consent decree was originally entered into um there was an agreement to modify that decree and that modification took place in 2010 and when the modification took place they extended the time period that we had to do certain things to 2029 and uh they really were focused on those csos again and so there was several things that had to be accomplished within those 20-y year period of time and since that time a lot of planes have been accomplished and that's been under three different administrations um that those have been taken place. But obviously you can only operate with the the money you've got. And so as time has has marched on u it became apparent that we did not either have enough time or enough money to be able to take care of all those problems. When I first became

elected in 2015, I met with then mayor uh Kevin Smith and also the controller at the time, Jason Finwick, and they explained to me at that time that they were working to try to get an enlargement of time uh in which to have more time to be able to attend all those issues because they knew then even back in 2015 um that there was not going to be enough time nor enough money to take care of it. At that time they were estimating as I recall uh around $300 million. So something that obviously our community wasn't even close to being able to to do. Um unfortunately the um the the parties could not come to an agreement for that enlargement at that time. And so when I took over uh we took over sort of where they left off and then we continued on with some of the major projects including one of the projects was called the green branch um where we realigned a major uh tunnel for sewage and then also we started the interceptor project which is what's over in Edgewater Park that's going on uh right now. That is being done in two phases. We've almost I think and Ryan can speak to this. I believe we're very close to finishing if we haven't finished the phase one and then phase two will be starting up uh pretty soon. The monies that would be generated from the rate increase that we're requesting today would be utilized in that phase two in order that we can continue on with that. uh once the phase two is completed in that project that phase one and two together on the interceptor uh project will eliminate two uh of the csos locations that we currently have at this time which will help us advance towards um making sure that we are in compliance with the long-term um uh control plan which is built in part of the part of the consent decree. Uh so that's part of what some of the money would be used for. Um at the time that the that the uh parties agreed to make the first extension back in uh that happened again in 2010 and

2009 when they were negotiating all that, it became apparent again that they needed more money to to work on some of those projects. And so a bond was issued in 2009. Uh and that bond was used for the uh for the project I was just describing. um part of that bond still remains unpaid and so we this this rate increase would also allow us to continue to pay on that bond and make sure that we remain in compliance with the bond terms. In fact, that bond when it was issued in 2009, and the parties will speak to this here in a moment, but when that bond was issued, there was a requirement that we maintain a certain level of income uh that would make sure that we had a proper coverage to assure the bond holders that we would stay in compliance. And we were supposed to stay at what they called 100% of coverage. And that's after you take deductions for your debts and expenses and so forth. Well, without this increase, we will slip down to about 63% um of coverage, which means that we would become out of compliance. And if that happens, then that would adversely affect our bond ratings. Uh it would impair our ability to get future bonds, not just in for utilities, but for other uh city needs. And we don't want to do that. We want to make sure that we remain in compliance and that we do the things that we promised that we would do um back in 2009. So, that's another reason that we're here. And that's really somewhat explains the relationship between the csos and the consent decree and what how that ties into what we're asking for here today. I might also note we have looked for other sources of in of money to be able to assist us. Uh you may recall those of you who served on the council um last last uh prior the last election uh when we uh joined the what was called the central Indiana regional development authority. Um, one of the things that we did when I when we got in there and I went on that board was I made a a uh request for some monies from from them

to assist with some of these projects and we did receive a $ 1.5 million uh grant from them uh that we used to relocate a water line that was needed to be relocated in order that we could put our interceptor system in. So, we have done some other things to try to help some of those expenses. Um, in the meantime, Tim has been working diligently, as I said a minute ago, actually for several years to try to pick up where uh Kevin Smith's administration left off in trying to work out a resolution of being able to extend the time period that we have and also maybe change some of the terms of the prior agreement, especially in light of the fact that technology has changed a lot uh over the years. that would make it more uh possibly more cost-effective to do something differently today than they would have been doing 20 25 years ago. And I'll let Tim speak to that again here in a minute. But I can tell you we think that we're pretty close to a settlement agreement with them. Uh and if that happens, we'll get a substantial extension of time uh to continue to proceed. But we will also have certain specific milestones that we definitely will have to to hit as we move forward between now and that that the end of that time uh in order to stay in compliance uh and not be find ourselves. And so again, this particular increase would allow us to to to meet some of those u concerns. We do recognize, make sure you know, we do recognize that there will come a time, probably 28, 29, um, that we'll have to come back and revisit this, but we won't do that until we know for sure what those future costs will look like once Tim gets um, gets that agreement worked out. Also, this rate adjustment that we're seeking would allow us to proceed again with our current projects that I've just spoke of here just a moment ago. Plus, uh it will give us coverage of about 150%. Uh which not only will will help shore up and make sure that we keep our

bond uh rating strong like it is presently, but it will also take the pressure off when it does come time in 2029. Uh that we ask for a future adjustment. We won't have to have as much of an adjustment that we'd have to have if we didn't if we didn't do this now. Um, also, uh, again, we want to make sure that we stay in compliance with the terms of that 20, uh, 2009 bond that I just spoke of, and Jennifer again will speak to you here a little bit about that. Um, on to the electric. Uh the well the other thing I should say is we are in the process and you're going to hear from our water pollution folks in a minute of the various projects that we expect to be doing if we get this if we get the increase that we just we just asked for here a moment ago. With regards to the electric, the electric's a little bit more straightforward in a sense uh in that it it is just simply the fact that again similar to sewer there has not been a meaningful adjustment of those rates in several years. In fact, the last time we had a rate adjustment that actually brought us additional uh revenue in was in 2007, which was 18 years ago. And since that time, the in that case, the the uh consumer price index has went up about 57%. Um and so again, same amount of revenue coming in, a lot more expenses of course going out and just more pressure on the utility. There was an attempt, I should tell you, back in 2014 uh to u change the rates on the electric. Um that case did make it down to the IURC with the blessing of the council at the time, but when that case got settled, uh they ended up adjusting rates among rate payers, but it actually didn't bring us any more revenue. Uh we actually ended up with a slightly less revenue. So the real again last time we had any any actual increase of of dollars coming in into us was in 2007. Uh similar to the uh sewer we are among the lowest again. Um in this case of

course in electric you have a lot more private companies involved you know companies like Duke and so forth. Uh but out of the eight electric utilities we are ranked third again on the lowest. And I will point out that every private utility is higher than we are. Duke, for example, is about 32% higher. AES, Indiana, Michigan are even higher than they are. So, people do get a good bang for their buck utilizing our our utility. We like to keep it that way. Um, but again, like the sewer, we are spending more money than we're taking in and we are running into a deficiency um of our expenses against our our revenues. I will tell you that the city uh electric utility did borrow from the Anderson Redevelopment Commission $7 million uh early last year, 2025, $7 million for the purpose of being able to continue to maintain our operations. And since that time, we've expended about three million approximately of that $7 million. So, we're going through it pretty quick because it's a very expensive utility to uh to run. Um so we that is a repayable uh debt and this this increase would allow us to repay that debt as well as shore up our um operation costs that we need. It would also allow us to do some equipment upgrades that we need and would also allow us to do some projects that would help us to um make our electric utility uh more redundant. uh that it will make it u less less outages, not as much time when they are out. None of us like to hear from our our constituents about that. Uh it'll just make it more reliable, which is something that we think we all agree that we we need to do. The other thing I want to note about the electric utility is that different than the sewer utility, when we present our case to the IURC, uh we're [snorts] required to present to them, and this is work that Jennifer's worked on. We're required to present to them what they

call a test year. And so we have to pick pick a a 12-month period of time and then we have to crunch all those numbers. They do, of course, they put all these numbers together to present that to them. And in this case, the test year that was used is 2024. And we're to the point that if we don't move on this pretty quick, that's going to become stale information. And if it does, then they won't rely on it. We'll have to go back and renew and and redo it. And if we do that, it's pretty expensive to have that done. So that's another uh reasons reason for our urgency in in that uh situation. Um, again, as in the the U sewer, our effort is to try to keep rates as low as we reasonably can. Uh, obviously neither us or the prior administrations have rushed in to get rate increases. Uh, nobody wants to do that. Uh, we've been fortunate to be able to operate in the manner that we have, but it's just one of those things. We can no longer kick that can down the road. So, um, that's why we're here tonight, and that's the need, and that's the urgency of it, and that's why we're here. So, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to go ahead and turn this over to Christian Janok and then moving forward, for the most part, we will try to stay focused utility at a time. Uh, starting with the electric utility. Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [clears throat] Mr. Mayor, hang on just a second. Where's Could I talk to Tim? Could Tim You absolutely can. Yeah, you. Okay. Tim L, assistant city attorney. Okay. A lot of my constituents want to know, is it appropriate to have a vote as we're going to be asked tonight before the public know what's going on up here? I

I would say yes. And the only reason being that uh you need to at least give this ordinance a reading in order to have the public hearing. And of course, you're not going to have any second or third readings to to consider final passage until you've had the the public hearing. And the statute does require there to be this public hearing before before the rates are finally passed. So, there's certainly no harm in doing doing this. Uh we do have a schedule we want to try to to adhere to. Um the mayor talked about the some of the urgency in regards to the bonds and we definitely need to get these uh in place. Hopefully we're asking these be put in place before the end of February. So that's why we we've constructed this timetable this way. But I guess the main point I'm trying to make here is that the rates cannot be finally acted on before there is the public hearing which is scheduled for uh I believe it's for February 12th. Well, I'm just saying I go to grocery stores anywhere I go.

Since last week, people are hearing about utilities going up. Uh, I had a lady that says she got behind on her utilities and when she did get the money together, not only she had to pay quite naturally the bill and that uh the fee went up to, I believe, $67 just to reinstate

her. Now, that type thing that's going on. And I want to ask you too, Light Power, I hope this council know, has a budget of their own. They come to us solely just to ask for money. Once we fund them, we have absolutely no control. We don't have a damn thing to do with what they do with the money. Now, those taxpayers out there, they're are being abused. You're sp asking for their money. This council is expected to give light and power sole responsibility distributing money any way they want to. That's my problem. Sure, we need water fixing. We need electrical uh things fixed up, but we also need to let the public know what we're doing with their money.

[clears throat] They don't have to come back to us. Light power don't have to come. You can give them $10 million or whatever. Just and they don't have to answer to no one. Right. We This council, we are the overseers of the taxpayers dollars. I feel like a fool telling the public I just gave them $10 million and don't know what they're going to do with it. U Miss um Tim um that's state law is written that way that we can change things.

State that's a state law that gives the authority of of public utilities to the board of public works. I've been here 35 years. I've been around a while too long. Terry Camp to Mr. President to Ali's point yeah that is I agree with you state is this is a state law however

the board of works could have an open utility budget meeting where we don't have a say but they could invite us in so that we could listen and understand and ask questions so that when constituents come to us because that's the fact the constituents are coming to us and the water rate hike that was that we okayed uh two months ago well I guess it's longer than that now but um you know now there's a that $67 $7 is down downstairs as a flyer that [clears throat] says the city council did this. Not the administration, not the board of works. The city council does did this alone. And so, you know, it would be nice if we would be we can't vote on it. We can't do it, but we could still be part of the process and they can invite us in so that we can see and hear all of that.

And at one time that was done. Yeah. But I agree with you. You're absolutely right. And you're going to explain to me before I give them some money. Yeah. Okay. Regardless of the job moving right on, are you are you you finished with Tim? Okay. All right. Excuse. Um, thank you. I think we need to introduce the ordinance and then have testimony beginning then. Uh, so Mr. uh, Mr. President, I'd like to introduce ordinance 2-26. Second. Ordinance 2-26, an ordinance adopting a new schedule of rates and charges for services rendered by Anderson Municipal Light and Power.

The ordinance is now introduced. Mr. Janick, Janok, excuse me.

Mr. President, you're not the first one to say that. Let me tell you. This is Chris Chanok. I'm with Bose McKinnon Evans. Um, I do work for utilities across the state and I've been doing it for you all for 10 or 11 years now. Um, what I thought I'd do, the mayor stole a lot of my thunder with this presentation, so uh, I'll keep this brief. Um, but what I thought I'd do is talk a little bit about the procedure for each of the ordinances. They are a little bit different. Ju just be a bit more specific. There's four ordinances in front of you. Uh, there's 2-26, which is a electric rate ordinance. 3-26 which is a electric bond ordinance and then you'll have two sewer ordinances. One's for bonds, one's for rates. So there they in some ways they mirror each other but the procedure is a bit different. Um all four ordinances have been considered by the board of works at a public meeting. I know at least uh there were some of the same folks were and Mr. President, I know you were there at that meeting. It's open to the public. We uh welcome the council or any uh the public at any time to make comments on that. Um but those were introduced and recommended and approved by the board of works. And when I say approved, they they do not under Indiana law, the board of works does not have they have the authority, as Mr. president said and I think Miss Cole recognized they have the authority to run the day-to-day operations of the utility, but when it comes to borrowing money and changing rates, they initially approve it and they recommend that you pass it, but you have final jurisdiction on that when it comes to a local level. Now, the mayor's right. Sewer, it the buck stops with you on the sewer. When it comes to the rates and the bonds on the electric, that uh the buck doesn't stop with you. There's a

three-step process. It starts with the board of works. It comes to you all. Uh we hold a public hearing and then we go to the IURC and they regulate the electric utility. And to the extent they're not spending their funds, right, they're the overseer, if you will, of the electric utility. They are government agency. It's independent, so they do oversee it. So, when it comes to the electric rate ordinance, that's what you have up right now, 2-26. Um, the mayor is right. We have a math problem. Uh, when it comes to rates, that's often what it is. you you've it's been a long time since you've had an increase to your revenues and now the expenses are exceeding the uh revenues and uh it's a math problem and it's if we don't do something about it it will not only u rates that are too low or unlawful under Indiana law but it will affect the utility's ability to make improvements and which will in long term impact reliability. So, what I thought I would do, uh, instead of hearing from the lawyer all night long, I thought you could hear from, uh, two of your folks who can kind of explain to you the electric rates and why they're necessary. The first will be Jennifer Wilson. She's with Crow. Uh, she'll start and she'll bring up Paul in a bit to explain some of the capital improvements. Now, the capital improvements will be paid out of rates and some of the improvements will be paid with the bond ordinance. So, that'll be your next ordinance, I think, on your agenda, which is uh 3-26. So, with that, I'll be quiet and let Jennifer come up and give her presentation.

Thank you. Yep. Good evening, Jennifer. Hello.

Very good. I'm Jennifer Wilson. with Crow and I prepared a revenue requirement report and then I gave that revenue requirement report to your cost of service study expert and he created then the rates. So you can think about that as I created what the pie how big the pie has grown and what the revenues need to be and then he took it and divided it into pieces on who the rate payers of should be how it be should be split between those those rate payers. So in my report, we took the years 22, 23, and 24 and looked at them and compared them and made adjustments to the year 2024, which is the test year. Then we would then pulled together the revenue requirements, which is your purchase power, which is a majority of your expenses, operation and maintenance, and taxes. We proposed a new lease. You already have a current lease outstanding, and we also are proposing a bond issuance. We uh with that bond issuance, you build up a debt service reserve and then you'll be paying for capital on an ongoing basis through extensions, replacements, through the revenues, and then also as the mayor said, you have a loan from redevelopment that we need to pay back. And we also need to build up the operating funds. So that's the working capital and the loan repayment. But first, we're going to talk about the capital improvements. You have up to $19.6 million. And I'm going to quickly move on to the um the details, but I'm going to have Superintendent Cyverson come up and discuss those.

Thank you, Superintendent Cyverson. Welcome to the council. Thank you, sir.

I apologize for my voice. I'm doing a sinus Barry White kind of thing. Um [clears throat] um to the point that was brought up earlier um as as far as where those money go where the monies go and what we spend it on um and the accountability there that's that's definitely important. I want to start with the fact that out at Light and Power we're not just uh as most people believe just a bunch of linemen. We have different departments out there. Substation line department, garage, central services, uh IT. There's many different pieces to that puzzle out there. So, I just want to kind of go through these. Do you have it? Oh, sorry. You already have it up. So, I want to go through each of these departments, if you will, and kind of where those monies would be spent. Um, starting with engineering. Um, some of the main um obstacles that they face uh annually as well as projectwise. Um, we have uh a lot of direct underground cable uh that's past its end of life, which is typically 30 years plus for direct buried cable that need replaced. We label at the Meadow Brook Manor underground, but it's it's all around town. We have a lot of direct buried cable that needs replaced. uh ongoing street lighting projects uh cost as far as repairs as well as we've uh transitioned to adding LED lighting and uh trying to get those replaced and to a more common more efficient LED lighting system around town. And then [clears throat] engineering has uh vehicles and and and this is going to be kind of a repeat. Most of our vehicles in all departments at light and power have well over 100,000 miles on them are covered in rust and desperately need upgraded. So this is going to be kind of a rinse repeat for all departments out there. Uh so those are vehicle costs uh related to engineering. One of our big biggest areas where we need to spend money next would be substation. Um we have many oil circuit

breakers. Those are the older versions of oil cir uh when they connect and disconnect. Basically oil is that um if you will it's what discharges that. We have many of those that are uh 40 plus years old. uh well past into life. Some of them I believe are closer to 50 if not a little over that. Should have been replaced a long time ago. And we're still fighting trying to keep those operating. Those are our key safety as well as uh functionality components. Um our various substations are obviously the central points where our service to the the distribution system comes in and if those aren't maintained, it just creates a bigger issue throughout those lines. Um, so we have many of those 40-year-old breakers and older that need upgraded to the newer gas SF6 uh style breakers. Um, then there's engineering costs involved in that. Um, we need to add a second transmission line badly to our rangeeline substation. It's a the only radio feed we have in town. Um, which uh, if you don't know what that means, the bottom line is that that line were to ever go down, that entire substation's off for an undetermined amount of time. So everyone fed off range line would be out of power permanently till that was addressed. Um so that's a really big cost and a and a huge necessity uh for reliability out there. Um [clears throat] excuse me. We [snorts] have LTC's. Uh these are load tap changers allow us allows the voltage to change under load providing more stable uh load. We have several of those that need replaced. Um we have 132 a smaller voltage than the 13 KV. um oil circuit breakers uh that need replaced with vacuum. Um plant 20 substation, the old plant 20 down there, uh off scatterfield has not been in use. I didn't actually look up, but it's been a long time since my tenure. I've been here going on 10

years. Um that would provide us more capacity and another interconnection point, but uh the transformers, the switching there is nonusable. Um so bringing that back up to speed would definitely give us the ability for more growth and reliability. Um and then the next several are basic maintenance that we just we you know you have to start cutting costs when you can't afford your expenses. So things like repairing foundations, station batteries, restoning uh our substations. I could not tell you the last time we could drive through a substation without potholes and stuff for our trucks to drive across. So, those are just general maintenance issues that need taken care of at substation, security improvements, um, capacitor bank controls, and then, uh, again, some vehicle upgrades for that particular department out at Light and Power. Um, central services, uh, our building out there on West 8th Street, um, has some very old HVAC units. Um, the street department roof has been leaking and patched more times than I count can count and just needs replaced. Our parking lot, which is cracked, crumbling, full of potholes, has not been fully replaced. Again, to my knowledge, I couldn't tell you when that happened. It handles much more heavier our truck traffic than vehicle traffic, which was which is what it was originally designed for. So, um, that needs [clears throat] replaced. And then we have annual plumbing issues that we deal with, security improvements, and then we have some vehicles, a scissor lift, things like that to be able to maintain uh maintenance out there. Our garage has changed over the years and they now handle more than just uh our vehicles. They handle different vehicles and our vehicles are new. Some of their dated equipment can't handle tire changes. Simple stuff. Um, so we have equipment for the garage on there,

a tire, tire balancer, brake lathe, because all of that has to be outsourced at a higher rate because our staff cannot handle it in house. Uh, so these are equipment items that would pro help us be able to handle that uh out of light and power in our garage. Um, it um data center upgrades, security, cyber security improvements. uh meter department. Again, upgrade of some of our uh trans data cell modems. Um replacement of existing metering, our acler system. Those are our annual costs for more meters and software and customer portals to provide that information, those reads and that monitoring. And then we have TWAX, which is that's short for our two-way automatic uh communication system. We have equipment expansions that need to happen at several of our substations. And then equipment for the meter department, CT site analyzer, meter test board, uh vehicles for that department, meter department, cargo van, SUV, that type of thing. Our line department, um we have annual costs related to installing new underground services, replacement of existing underground services, and then doing facility extensions. Whenever the state comes in and decides they want to spend money, we have to move some of our stuff. It it's it's one of those things you can't supersede the state. So when they say move your poles, you move your poles. Um so those monies there can be substantial. Uh we have not had and it's a pretty big safety issue for communications. We have not had a functional radio system for many years now and it desperately needs to be out there. We uh think we have all were a part of that um day there where everybody's cell phones didn't work. Well, if you have guys out on lines or in buckets and and working live lines and their communications, no cell phone, that that's a pretty critical safety issue. Uh we need a new radio system out

there. And then other equipment, digger, derek's bucket tuck truck, excuse me, [clears throat] bucket trucks, easement [snorts] machines, and various vehicles. Uh finestly, uh finally, under various I put tools and equipment. We have costs in calibration and testing and tools that are needed all the time. Um, and then computer equipment uh to replace and upgrade phones, tablets, that type of thing. Um, so that's kind of everything that I had as far as projects. I I did want to mention um very quickly with a a quick analysis and looking at uh things online and through our invoicing system, there is nothing I could find at Anderson Light and Power um in our system did not that has not gone up between 2007's last increase and 2025 less than 140%. U we have some transformers that we purchased back then that were $18,000 that are $70,000 today. Um anyway, for your consideration, I appreciate your time. There aren't any questions. Yes, sir.

Yeah. Uh what are you planning on keeping that power station down there on Park next to Park Street? On Park Road? Yeah. Are are we planning on keeping it? Yes. Yes, sir. Yes. said streety park. Park. Yeah. Yeah. By streety park. Yes. Yeah. I mean, if you heard something I I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of just a lot of stuff floating around. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I to my knowledge, we're not shutting down any substations at all. Very good, Mr. President. Yes. Go ahead. Nope. Uh just quick question, and this is not for me. This is for the general public, sir.

Absolutely. The mayor did say that this is a very urgent matter that we need to attend to. On a scale of 1 to 10, I know this sounds silly, but please will you just humor me for a second? It's quite all right. All right. So, on a scale of 1 to 10, with one being we don't need any improvements at all, and 10 being we need everything all done at once. Where would you rate the electric? I will say not all of it's the same, but we have some things I would say are an 11 or a 12. And I understand that this [clears throat] is your baby, so to speak, right? So you want to give your babies everything that [laughter] you can, right? I do, too. But we all operate on a budget, don't we? Absolutely. And so we can't just give everybody everything we want all the time. Yes.

But I appreciate you bringing that [clears throat] and and giving us your report like you did. Thank you very much. And I appreciate the time that you gave us previously. No problem.

Mr. President, I have a question. um the this information that you've given us um all of it that needs to be [snorts] replaced. [clears throat] You talked about range line, how you know in poor shape it is and trucks and the holes and all of this stuff. Um how long have you known that this was coming? Well, as uh was spoken uh previously by the mayor, um since we haven't had the increase, um I guess the best way for me to describe this it is is it's been over this 18 years. Um I like to ask everybody um if you made the money you made 18 years ago, could you afford what you're doing today? Um, it's been a process, but we've finally gotten we not finally, we have gotten to the point where we have things that, you know, I get reports from our my supervisors that something didn't operate at 2:00 a.m. Um, a lot of people I know you see it on social media, why does an outage take five hours? Well, if things don't operate the way they operate and we have to come up with a way to fix it, it takes longer. Um, and my best description is we have some of these older breakers that are 40 and 50 years old. You've got to ask yourself, do you, you know, when your customer calls and says, "Why are we out of power?" And you just found out because we can't turn that on anymore. You're going to be out indefinitely. That's not a conversation I want to have with any customer. Um, a lot of this is is getting really close to critical if it's not there. it. But to your point, it's it's taken years,

but we just, you know, got the in-depth Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We're just we just started putting this together, but this is obviously well before my tenure out at Light and Power. Um, as the mayor spoke to, uh, they attempted a rate case. Obviously, it didn't go the way they had hoped, but um, this has been a slow process with with our grid. Um, our reliability is still looking at the numbers, and I can get you that report if you'd like it. We're still pretty high, but we have a lot of components and equipment that are very close or well past end of life, and it's going to become a bigger problem. [clears throat] I have, Mr. President, I have a question.

Is there a timeline for these capital improvements? You have a list of like

our biggest um and I can come up with a priority list, if you will. um our issue especially when you're talking the larger equipment the one I was referencing when you're talking 1500 2500 you know heaven forbid you have to change something actually a transformer station you you deal with lead times um precoid as we all know things were at least fairly available um I couldn't tell you but I would say anything substantial in that size were still out a year so if we want to replace one that we know is critical if it's not on order today we're still not seeing it for a year. Um, a lot of your smaller stuff has gotten a little easier, your poles, getting cable, that kind of thing. But our substations, most of that stuff, um, I think we're at pretty close critical levels on some of those, especially breakers and LTC's, things like that need need replaced. Um, we've, if you will, spent a lot of time mandating things that just need replaced now. So,

so [clears throat] is there something the council gets I'm new to all this so to let them know that these upgrades or improvements are made? Um, actually most of the projects actually end up going through the board of the works um um as spoke to earlier since we basically report to them. Um but we can provide any kind of project listing or or anything the council would would would deem that they want to see. Thank you. Yep. Any other questions to the council? Yep. Because I'm on a roll. Uh Paul, real quick, [laughter] um you said you've been in this position for 10 years. No, I've been at Light and Power 10 years. I left after the previous superintendent, uh Tony Pochard. Uh he left

in July. That's right. At the previous Yes. So, I'm curious then if you would like to speculate why it is that no rate increase has been proposed prior to now and why all of a sudden now I would like not to speculate. I don't know. Um and obviously I don't want to speak on his behalf and and any conversation he had with the board. Um that would be more a question for the border works I would believe to see what he has done or tried to do. Okay, fair enough. I'll save it. Sorry. Y I to the

the questions. I [clears throat] have a question for Jennifer. Can she just real quick? And I don't even know if you're going to know this answer, but um the debt that we are discussing that we are going to have be in big trouble in [clears throat] what what is the month that we will be in big trouble? That's on the sewage works. That's on the sewers. Okay. I'll ask them. Okay. So, we don't have that same problem with the bond for the electric. Correct. You don't have any bonds outstanding at this point in time on the electric utility. You have one uh one lease, one capital lease. Okay. And it doesn't have the same kind of protocols or requirements. Excellent. Mr. President, yes. Can I ask a question, please?

You can. Jennifer, I know I kind of briefly touched on this when we met before and we discussed these [clears throat] things. Um but the data set you had a choice in that [snorts] about which data set you used and you chose 2024. May I ask why? We started this process earlier this year. Um so at that point in time and the OURC OUCC like to see year-end fiscal year it's not a requirement but they like seeing year-end fiscal year. So, we took the year end um 24 we started this work in 25 and got to this point that we're now presenting it to you.

Okay. Thank you. Any other questions from the council? Questions from the audience? If you will, if you wish to comment. I I still have more of the presentation. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm sorry, but I I can I can stop. But yeah, there's there's a little bit more. That's Paul's part. It's Paul's part.

Okay. [laughter] All right. Um, so going back to the uh the information about the income statement. So in 2022, you weren't running at a deficit. You actually had $470,000 or so to put towards capital projects, but as Paul showed you, you have a a large amount of projects that you need to do on an annual basis. So, that wasn't a lot of money to use, but they made it through. Uh, 2023, it actually went negative, and a lot of that has to do, which I'm going to get to, your purchase power is 78 million of your $100 million worth of expenses. So, um, as purchase power goes up and down, uh, there's a lot of maneuvering that needs to be done to make sure that that purchase power bill gets paid. Um, and then in 24, it's $677,000 that you have. And then in February, we'll know what the 25 results are, but you did um take out a loan from redevelopment in order to keep the operating um balance running. So I expect it to be negative as well. So we take that test year of 2024 and your purchase power is the big light blue line or the big light blue part. It's 78.7 million out of your 95.95 million in the test year. So you have about 16.8 million of uh other operating expenses and taxes. We made adjustments to bring it up to uh bring it up 3.77 million for what we project out your expenses will be as far as we can in 25 and 26. So your adjusted test year is 99.3 million. Again, your purchase power stays at 78.7. As Paul went through, you have uh $19.6 million worth of capital. We're trying to bond a quarter of that and uh fund uh

another quarter of it through a equipment lease. And then you'll fund the remainder of those projects with ongoing capital as it comes in um from these new rates. So that your debt service will look like this. the the little small yellow at the bottom is your current equipment lease. Then we'll be adding $1.1 million uh lease to pay for a lot of those big trucks and other equipment that Paul talked about and then $425,000 per year on a bond issuance and that will go out for 20 years. So overall, this is your revenue requirement. The big blue is the adjusted or the purchase power expense of $78.7 million. And the remainder of the project of the expenses are shown in the smaller or in the smaller pieces of the pie. And that's about $30 million with the biggest part being 18.8 million for operation maintenance, 1.8 million for taxes. We have about $1.8 million in lease and bond and debt service reserve. You have extensions and replacements of 3.6 and then we're paying back the loan and also building up your working capital at 3.7. So overall your revenue requirements is $108.4 million. You have some revenue requirements offsets that's like interest income or other income coming in. So your adjustable um operating revenues of 95.7 million makes it that you have a deficit of $12 million. And so overall, we're needing a 12.58% increase in revenue. So again, that's not what everyone's going to see in their rates because there's a cost of service study that was done. I'll stop there and see if there's any questions. Otherwise, I'm going to start pulling up the cost of service study results.

Can can you explain in layman's terms uh adjusted purchase power, what that means? Um and actually, I should probably take it off. adjusted purchase power that is you guys actually don't manufacture your own energy you purchase it from another entity. So it's like the your the electric utility receives uh a invoice from another electric provider and that's what purchase power is. Unless someone else can thank you. Other questions from council.

All right. continue.

All right. So, as I said, I did the revenue requirements and there was a cost of service study expert who did the actual rate design. So, I'm presenting his uh his presentation here. He took my revenue requirements as I presented 12.58%. And sorry he then took all those costs and allocated them to different customer classes. So that you can see there that the projected revenues under the proposed rate is $107 million and you currently are bringing in 97 95.7 million and you can see the customer class over to the left. So that it shows the projected revenue change and what that percentage change is by class. Uh and so I I keep saying that yeah the overall increase is 12.58% and then it's divided by class. Not everyone in every class is going to see the same kind of rate increase. And I'll get that to that h in a moment. But he did rate design so that different users who use different amounts will see different percentage rate increase. But this shows what the overall residential service class is expected to increase their revenues by 13.5. But not everyone's going to see a 13.5% increase. So let me get to that next. So for residential customers, you can see over to the right he's switching up that the current monthly facilities charge is $9.86 and that's going to go to $12.50. So everyone's going to in the residential class is going to see that

increase. Now currently you have an energy block where the first block of 0 to 500 kilowatt hours is charged a higher amount 0.1 versus that anyone that uses over 500 kilowatt hours is charged something less a declining block. He is projecting to show that it's all going to go to one rate block so that everyone pays no matter what usage in the residential class of 13352. So just and and then you can see it over here to the left of the impact on the customers that as you use higher than 500 kilowatt hours you see a larger increase because your your rate block increased more than the first rate block. So for example most people will fall into the range of 800 to a,000 kilowatt hours and they're going to see between 11.8% 8% and a 13.6% increase. That will result in a bill increase of about $12.64 for our user of 800 kilwatt hours or $17.53 for a user of a,000 kilwatt hours. And that's your typical users.

So we're clear. Yes, it will be the facilities charge plus if it's 800 $12.64. So basically somebody they're their monthly impact would be 245 [snorts] that 12 uh he included that monthly facilities charge impact within that 1264. Okay.

Or yeah that $1264 increase for that 800 kilowatt user. So I want to give you an example of your utility bill because I I I want to make sure it's clear that we're not talking about the entire utility bill. So, I got a copy of what your bills look like. And so, it has storm water, that's not changing. Sewer, we're going to talk about that in a moment. Water, we're not talking about today. Electric revenues is the the fourth line down. It's highlighted, but you can't see that very well there. Um, and that's that's the part of the bill that we're talking about changing. Trash collection's not changing. Sales tax is what it is. It's 7% on what you use on electric. and sales tax for water is the same what you use on water. So, just wanted to make sure everyone knew we're not talking about the entire bill. We're talking about a certain line item on the bill. As the mayor said, we we grabbed the residential bill survey that's put together by the Indiana Utility Regulatory Commission. And you can see there that Anderson as of July 1st, 2025. And they show the different users of 500, 1,000,500, and 2,000 kilowatt hours. Anderson's ranked third out of the eight that are under IURC jurisdiction. You can see that the IUS the the ones that are forprofit are charging more. They're they're higher rates than you. All right, I'll quickly go through these. Uh your GS1 phase customers will typically see a 12.5% increase. Again, the overall increase is 12.58. The GS3 phase customers see a 6.4 to 7.5% increase.

Small power service their overall their average users 11.5% increase. Large power service will see a 12.3% increase. And industrial power service will see a 13.4% increase. Outdoor lighting is limited to a 20% increase. and municipal street lighting service also limited to 20% increase. That's the end of uh Can you explain what a GS1 and a GS3 is? Um give us some maybe examples in the city of Anderson. I cannot and so I'm going to look behind me and hopefully Paul can do that.

Yes. Just real quick, the the different classes uh the main one most of our customers uh 35 over 35,000 are residential customers. The different classes are divided based on basically your voltage, your demand and your usage. GS just stands for general service. So based if on if your voltage is different, it depends on whether you're residential, general service one. And it's just divided by demand voltage.

Can you give us some examples of like a GS1 or a GS? Um, off the top of my head, um, no. [laughter] I will get you that information though. Yep. I can get you a list of an example of each of those. Yep. [clears throat] Okay. Yes, sir. Mr. President, I think that concludes the presentation on the electric. So, ordinance 2-26. Let me just talk a little bit more about the procedure. There were some questions at the beginning. Sure.

So, the board of works considers it. This is the the statute requires you to introduce it or have a first reading. Uh and then you can have your second and third readings on the 19th. Now, under Indiana law, a public hearing is not required on the electric if you are regulated because that's going to be at the IURC. But the in the spirit of making sure that it's not confusing and if people want to say something about the sewer or the water, the notices we put out for a public hearing on February 17th will allow comments on both sewer and electric.

So tonight's the introduction or the first reading. We'll have a public hearing on the 17th on both the sewer and the water rate ordinances and then a final vote or as you call it the second third readings on the 19th assuming it it makes it through tonight. Thank you. So, it's ready. It's ready for the council's consideration. Yeah. I also want to see if anybody in the audience wants to speak or ask a question. If you do, please come forward. Give your name. Uh there's a sheet signin sheet. Uh isn't there for name and address? No. But I can Yeah, come right ahead. Mr. President. Yes, sir. I would like to reiterate time limit.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You're absolutely right. We will try to keep this to three minutes per person for your question and then we'll strictly on the electric right now. We are on the electric. Yes.

Okay. So, I'm not going to read through everything I handed you guys, but I did a quick little study myself today just to kind of see what the what the history was on the electric rate increases. And where some of the public gets confused is what gets put in like the Herald Bulletin. Now, these are all articles that I found pretty much on the Herald Bulletin. And one of the ones that I want to point out is from August 19th, 2025. It says electric rates climb 3.13%. In that particular article, it shows 2025 increases for January, March 864, April, June 484, um says October, December of 2025, 3.43%. And what I've heard here tonight and what I heard on Tuesday was that they hadn't had an increase in um since 2007. So, we're kind of confused as the public as to why that would be.

Yes. So um yes that is called the tracking factor and that is actually the cost to produce to the cost to produce the power for the last quarter. So it's kind of like estimated it goes down it's like estimated cost and stuff. Well I don't know that it's estimated I'm sure it's documented. Okay. Uh but that's what that is. Now that does go up and goes down. Uh one quarter may be up a little bit one quarter it'll come down a little bit. Is that a fair enough explanation? Yes. Okay. It's it's that sorry it's that purchase power we were talking about. Okay. We buy our power through Impa every

there may be a slight fluctuation and that's what you're seeing in your bill because we purchase that power through them. Say their fuel cost or their trucking costs or anything impacts that cost of buying the power that goes all the way down to the customer. So you see an increase but also last year we had some quarters where a decrease. It's all due to purchase power. It has nothing to do with the city of Anderson. Okay. Okay.

And then my other issue was um what protections exist for fixed income and lowincome residents with this because what we heard from uh Mike Shively at the Tea Party was the SB1 is getting ready to knock um some of the help that the poor community usually gets. and he said that 2026 we're going to lose 25,000 and 2027 we're going to lose 2020 or 50,000 and then by 2028 we're going to lose 200,000. So you know is there something that's going to be able to help

that was one of my questions is how does you know the mayor and upper administration see Anderson Andersonians being able to afford you know on the back of the water rate hike etc. Um it just they just have to like I mean what do you say to the residents that you guys and we answer to on that? Well um and if you don't have an answer tonight that's fine. No that's okay. And what what jumps in my mind with your question is many of those folks would be seniors. Many of them are living in apartments themselves.

Seniors. Yeah. And I I see poor single. they're living in. They have close to the base usage of water and that would that goes right to what uh Mrs. Wilson was explaining about the lower increase. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. Is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to answer qu ask a question? Question. Question's been called for. Will the clerk call the role?

Council Turner. Well, I support reliable utility services and maintaining bond compliance, but I cannot approve a rate increase brought forward under a lastm minute bond related pressure without a documented multi-year financial and capital plan. approved a prove a rate increase without the level of transparency and due to due diligence will will not meet my uh fiduciary responsibilities. So on that I'm going to substain my vote abstain my vote.

I don't think you can do that um unless you leave the floor. Yeah, that's right. You have to walk. You can walk out of here as long as you're I believe now your seat. In your seat, you have to vote yes or no or for or against. If he wants to do that, he can't walk out right now. He just fell before he came in here today. True. So, but why I'll help him. I'll do whatever we got to do. Why must he vote? What's that? Why must [clears throat] he vote? I just want because he's in his seat. I mean, I can get I have abstained from voting previously on this council. Yeah, I don't think that was correct. Um,

well, someone's going to have to prove it to me. Okay. All right. Mr. Lena, can you speak to that? I can go get the rules. Yeah, just like me being present. The I think if the clerk can get the rules, should be something perhaps covered by the rules. I can't remember. I know what the rules would be at the Indiana Senate, which is if you're there, you're going to have to vote. But, uh, I I I can't remember. It's been a while since I look at the rules and I can't remember.

If say at the previous meeting a person wasn't here and they was asked to approve the minutes from the last meeting, then you could abstain because you were not present. You follow what I'm saying? I follow what you're saying. But I know that's what I'm saying. You want somebody to help you walk out so that you can hold the I mean if that's what they're going to require. I can get out. Okay. Okay.

It says here under Robert's rules of border a member cannot be forced to vote and cannot be forced to leave to abstain. So okay under that may be different than rules we have in our council. Yeah. Obviously, if your rules provide otherwise, that's that governs. But if it doesn't, then you fall back on Robert's rules. Well, Tam, I want you on record. I want you to make that decision. You're the attorney. You should. Well, I'm not your attorney, actually, but your attorney. Rosemary is the council's attorney. Rosemary's here. Rosemary, you have a city attorney. There's a difference.

Well, she's the clerk's going to get the rule. So, let's see if there is something covers in the rules. Why don't we just take about a And I I agree that Rosemary is the council's attorney, right? But things shouldn't be put upon her when we have a city attorney who makes $100,000. I don't make $100,000. Well, we got what what do Paul Pesky make? Okay. That's that's not gerine to what we're doing here. What's gerine? You mean it's it's I know what you're talking about, but you listen. Sometimes you guys you guys are heading down towards violating the Constitution of the United States and not recess.

We're going to recess for 10 minutes. We'll reassemble at 5 minutes till that's about 9 minutes. Play with the rules.

Council will come back in session. Um, Rosemary Curry, would you come to the microphone, please, and tell us what the result is? She has to be out in the hall. She was just right there. This gets shot down. this first vote gets done, right? Yes. Go ahead, m Mr. President, you want me to address the the Mr. Lamb?

All right. So, your rules do not provide specifically as to whether a uh member who is present must vote or not vote. So, that's not in your rules. It's not covered by your rules. Your rules do say that if an issue involving uh parliamentary procedure comes up and it's not covered specifically by your rules, you revert to uh Robert's rules of order. Robert's rules of order does say that I just Googled this uh the question of whether or not a member may abstain. Yes, under Robert rules of order, a member can abstain from voting. They cannot be compelled to vote and an abstension is a legitimate choice. It does not count as either a yay or a nay vote.

Okay. Correct. All right. Council understand. So if this were to tie, the yay votes would win. Just so Yeah. Well, it takes five votes to pass ordinance. I understand. But I'm saying like if somebody were to leave or something like that, it would pass if it were four to four bec because we're abstaining. We're not voting yes or we're not voting no. So I I that's just I don't know. I'm not sure. Mr. President, hold on. Since Mr. Freeman,

since we have a new member, I just want to make sure and that everybody understands we're not voting to finalize this today. It's a first vote. And if we vote no and turn this down on the first vote, it's done. It's gone. We don't get another chance. So just make sure we're all clear on that. Miss Curry, sir, could you come to the microphone, please? Oh, no, never mind. Tim spoke to that. It's fine. Council all understands that. Do you wish to repeat your uh stand or uh you've already spoken. Madame clerk, you have that on record. My vote counts as a not a yes or a no, correct? Right.

Because you're abstaining. I want to stay with that for right now. This vote. [clears throat] So if it's 44, it fails. No, I don't think so. It takes five to pass. Fails. If if four it didn't pass and and it did not fail, it's a tie. It depends on what the four four is. If it's four yeses, four nos, then it is a tie. If it's Now, this is not because we have all of us here. So there will be five you know whatever four whatever whatever it is abstaining

I I understand that if it were to be four four abstain for vote for it then the yes's vote because we're not you know like he is not voting yes or no it's a four four right so the yeses would win because still have five because there's like he did not vote still that's according to the Robert rules order that I looked up. But but but you've got state statute. This is an ordinance, right? State statute says to pass an ordinance, it takes a majority of the elected members, right? You have you have nine

members. We if four people or are not not five, but if four were to abstain, then you don't have a yes or no vote. So you only have yes votes if you have five people that are vote. But the issue is what does it take to pass the ordinance? And it takes five affirmative votes. Takes five affirmative votes. But I'm saying if you have four people that do not vote yes or no, they have zero vote. They're just not voting. They're not voting. So they haven't voted no, but they haven't voted yes. Correct. And it does take five yes votes. Correct. Five of the eight has to pass it for it.

Or five vote no for it to fail. Five votes is pass. Will the clerk continue the role, please? Council Harless, I too would like to piggy back off of Mark's statement. I support infrastructure and reliable utilities, but I will not approve a rate increase rush forward solely to meet bond criteria without a clear multi-year plan for how the funds will be used. Financial pressure created by delayed planning is not a responsible basis for raising rates. And because of this, I choose to abstain. Councelor Dixon, no. Councelor Freeman, yes. Councelor Culp.

Um, I also support infrastructure reliability utilities, but I will not approve a rate increase rush forward solely to meet bond criteria without a clear multi-year plan for how the funds will be used. Financial pressure created by delayed planning is not a responsible uh basis for raising rates. I abstain from this vote. Council Wagner, I too support infrastructure. Oh, sorry. It's getting out of order. Yeah, you got it out of order. I got it out of order. Sorry. I'll fix it.

I do support infrastructure and bond coverage and complying with our obligations. Uh what a great second meeting for me. But I will I trust in a few of these people until they prove me wrong. So I'm going to vote for it. Yes. Councelor Landers.

I too support infrastructure and reliability reliable utilities, but I will not approve a rate increase rushed forward solely to meet bond criteria without a clear multi-year plan for how the funds will be used. Financial pressure created by delayed planning is not a responsible basis for raising rates. Therefore, I abstain. Councelor Newman. I've got a question question here. Where do we stand on this right now? Right now, you have four abstain. I can't say it. Obstensions. Obstensions. Yes. I can't say it.

And And you have two yeses and one no. It doesn't matter. So, what does that mean? Five. That means that right now you're kind of dead in the water. You're not going to get five. You you you don't can't get five yeses out of this. But you could get a Well, we have to come back. Why doesn't that pass? Because you didn't get five votes, right? Because Ollie voted no. Right. Girls voted one of you guys on the fence. Yeah. No. Well, I don't feel guilty of my vote. No. Hold on.

You know the one thing that scares me if this eventually if this does not pass, what's going to happen? Electric is going to be farmed out and they can whoever whatever company it goes to can jack the price up anytime that they want to without this kind of meeting. I wouldn't go for a utility cell. Well, that's where we're going. You guys have a choice. If we don't pass it, you guys, they weren't worried about it before, were they, Mr. Freeman?

Well, let's that horse is already out the barn. We can go all the way back to Republican, Democrat, everybody in between. If that's what we're going to do here, if we're going to go Republican, Democrat, if that's what we're going to do for the people, I am for the people. I'm for I'm not going private. You farmed out the entire black community on that reditioning a violation of the 1965 voters right section two. So don't tell me about uh uh farming out Yes. Yes. Councilman Newman, you have voted. You voted yes. Yes. Okay. President Graham. Yes.

The total is what, Madame Clerk? Four yeses. one no and uh four abstains, right? Yeah. Do we have to do it again? Well, we're going to have to talk to the attorneys. I don't know the answer to that. Doesn't fail. Um you can do whatever you want. Okay. Um you want me to do it? I don't care. Change my vote to yes. There you go. Madame clerk, did you register that? Yes. Say it again, Mark. Councelor Turner. Yes. Yes. Councelor Freeman. Yes. Councelor Wagner. Yes. Councelor Newman. Yes. President Graham. Yes. That's

that's five. Thank you, Councilman Turner. Thank you. It's not that, Greg. We We'd all love to understand this, but the the buck the buck stops here on these kinds of things. That sign downstairs bugs the I will I will talk with the mayor about that. We'll see what we can do about that. It wasn't just the council. It was the whole administration that did that water increase. But I thank you for your change of vote. Now

we have a five yes, a four abstension, and one no. We got you got three uh three three abstensions. Three abstensions. Okay. But we have five votes in the affirmative. Yes. Therefore, it passes first reading. Yes. Okay. Yes. Thank you very much. Uh let's move on now to uh ordinance 3-26, which is the bond issue. Uh Mr. Jar, we need to introduce it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We Mr. President, I'd like to introduce ordinance 326, please.

Second. Ordinance 3-26, an ordinance concerning the construction of additions and improvements to the electric utility of the city of Anderson, Indiana, the issuance of revenue bonds to provide the cost thereof, the collection, segregation, and the interest of the owners of SE revenue bonds. Other other matters connected therewith, including the issuance of notes in anticipation of bonds, and repealing ordinance inconsistent herewith. Thank you. You've heard the reading of the ordinance. Mr. Janok, are you speaking first here? Yes. Thank you, Mr. President. Chris Chanok again with Bose, McKenna, and Evans.

Um, the bond ordinance 3-26

authorizes a borrowing of up to $5.3 million. Uh the rates have included an amount for debt service of 4.6. The 5.3 that that is what we hope to keep the B borrowing at. The 5.3 is a little extra in case the projects that Mr. Cyverson outlined cost a bit more. Um the there seems to be some confusion about the capital planning and the capital projects. The capital planning and projects have been prepared by Mr. Cyverson. That's what he's talking about. And these will take place over several years, some of which will be paid out of rates as capital improvements that all utilities do to make sure they have reliable service. And I I think what's important in this instance to know is that especially for electricity, this goes to reliability. These are the things that the the commission and people and your customers, I think, would want you to do so that the lights stay on and and folks get electricity. Uh the IURC will review all of these improvements and make sure they're necessary. So you're going to get experts to review it and make sure that uh it passes muster. Uh but the the way to fund this at this point, especially for longerterm improvements is to if you bond finance them rather than putting them all in rates is you get spread that out over time and it avoids rate shock to customers. If we put them all in rates, that means you would be paying for those all in four or five years. And that means your rates would not be going up 12%. They'd be going up a lot more. So this allows you to do some of the improvements and pay for them over time, especially if they have a longer life. And again, Mr. Cyverson can speak to this, but these are reliability issues for for you all. So, uh, we'd ask that you approve this or at least approve the initial reading and set this up for a final vote on the

19th. Thank you very much. Anybody else, uh, speaking on this ordinance? Okay. Who is who is Dennis Autton? This is Dennis Autton. Oh, no. This is not Dennis. I'm Dennis. This is Christian. I was like, but but Dennis Dennis is my partner, Bose. McKinn, he's a bond lawyer. Okay. So he's the one who prepared the ordinance. He he we do these for communities across the state. Dennis was just on here. Yeah, Dennis and I work together all the time. Thanks for asking. Any questions on this ordinance from the council? I was like, "No, no, that's not upgrade." [laughter]

Any questions from the council on this proposed ordinance 3-26? Are there any questions uh from the audience? Anybody want to ask a question on 3:26? Please come forward, state your name and your address and keep your remarks to three minutes, please. My name is Rob Jose and 815 Rael Avenue. Um, how much is this for capital improvement? And how much? Because I've read the newspaper and it said that there was a budget shortfall. There was uh So, you're issuing bonds for a capital improvement.

That's correct. What is the improvement? Well, the improvements are what they would Mr. Cyerson went over. I wasn't here. I just

Okay. Can you come up and and give us a recap of that, please? Um yes, just a a quick recap. Um as I explained um earlier, we have different departments out at Light and Power um engineering substation, central services, and many of these projects um directly related to both sustainability and reliability. Um upgrading uh circuit breakers and equipment in substations. um replacing antiquated end of life equipment, uh purchasing new vehicles uh for those various departments uh as needed, continuing lighting projects, um upkeep uh of our central services building, um cyber security, uh upgrades,

percentage amount for upgrades, I'm sorry, of the of the amount being bonded. Yep. and requested from the increase. How much is the percentage for capital improvements that's on that you got that? Oh, there you go. You got Rob, Mr. Jud, we act, you need to come to the microphone if you will so you can get recorded. I just wonder what the percentage was for capital improvement. That's our technical. I'll get you count of what's capital, what's just a percentage.

This what this is showing is how much% we're bonding and how much. So about a quarter we're bonding, a quarter equipment lease, and then the other half are funding from revenue. Uh half the half the money is for revenue. But here's our probably talking about the total revenue requirements. No, I'm talking about the amount of money because you're asking for a rate increase. How much is going to be used to retire capital improvement and how much is going to be for um to for budget shortfalls for um for day-to-day operation expenses? Yeah. So for bonding, sorry, it's very small on a rate increase the percentage, how much is going to be for capital improvements? How much is going to be for a shortfall for for operating expenses?

Um I sorry, I don't normally look at it that way because you have a full revenue requirement. So, it's hard to say. Well, that's real important. You come to the microphone. It's real important. Yeah. What I'm what I'm trying to say is you have a full re what we've designed is a full revenue requirement. So, it's saying right now that your operating fund is deficient and you're not able to make any capital improvements. So, the full rate increase gets you up to so that you can pay for your operating and make capital improvements.

Yeah. But but but to me, you're you're clouding it. You're muddying the water because you're saying so much is for capital improvement. So it seems like we're going for capital improvement, but we don't know how much is for day-to-day operations because we we're supposedly we have enough money for day-to-day operations. We do not. You okay? And that's what I want to address. I think your answer here I think the lease, bond, and debt service is 2% of the total revenues that we're going to bring in. So I I think the number you're looking for is 2%. So it's the smallest piece. So two 2% is for the capital improvement or 2% is for operating expenses. For the capital improvement is that

2%. So the majority of this is for the majority of this increase is for day-to-day operations. Yes.

Okay. Now that that's my question. Um because every owner wants to be liked by their employees. Every owner does. And we've approved a lot of rating in we've improved a lot of raises over the last few years. And if most of this is going for a shortfall in budget for raises, you know, we've created this problem by not being really good stewards to the community. Um, you know, you know, Doug Whidam, you always said there was a lot of money available, right, for raises. Well, every time we we gave raises, you said there was a lot of money available for them.

Okay. Well, first of all, Doug Whitam, city controller. First of all, the one thing you have to understand that obviously you don't is the fact I do understand. Well, that we're dealing with multiple funds. Okay. In this case, we're dealing with the the electric utility, which is a fund of its own. I understand that. I'm not talking about the general fund. I'm not talking about the water department. I'm not talking about motor vehicle highway. We're just talking about the electric utility. The electric utility because the rates have not been raised since 2007. Okay.

Effectively needs funds for operations and these capital improvements for reliability as as has been presented throughout this evening. Okay. So, but but when every time every time I read the newspaper and we're giving out raises and you know and and I I don't have a problem with raises. I like people to make more money. You know, it's a tough it's tough for everybody, but every time we come up it's time for raises. You've said that we have enough money available for the raises. Okay. Again, I I I would say you're confusing some of the things that that are being said. Okay. Because

Susie finishes. I I'm not saying that we have extra money here with Miss Light and Power. This is the case they're presenting. We are running deficient on the operating utility. We have been able to fund raises up to this point. We're going to fall behind, right? Okay. I understand that we are. And um and you're

we try to pay people again when we try to pay people and we negotiate union agreements, we try to do so in a way that competes with the marketplace. Okay. And what their requirements are. So there's a lot of things here to your uh question. Um but I have not said in this instance that we have enough money for raises. You got understand we've lived in this community for 30, 40, 50 years. You probably heard me make comments about about the um You've probably heard me make comments when we've had hearings on the civil city budgets which are entirely different from this utility budget which is funded by rates. Thank you, Mr.

And you're right. You're right. Okay. Um I got I got another question for Doug. I think you've got the answer to your question. No, I didn't. I've got a lot of questions. Oh, no order. I mean, I've got a lot of questions. Please, Mr. Mr. President. Yes, sir. It's not like we got a lot of speakers. No, I've been president four or five times. If there is someone that's uh repeating the same thing over and over and over, right,

we we set limits, but when you got one speaker up here, hell, we've been here all night as it is. Give Rob Jose a chance to express itself. That's only fair. That's all that's being democratic. Now, if we had 15 20 speakers up here that became at speaking uh always saying the same thing over and over, that's one thing. So, give this man a right. He's a taxpayer just like we are. Give him a chance. I'm vice president. I say you deserve a chance to express yourself.

Well, I got another question for Doug. Does your son still work for wastewater? Well, first of all, that's absolutely irrelevant to this discussion. But on the other hand, no, he does not. He now works for Eli Liy, and I'm very proud of him. Thank you for asking. I was just curious. All right, that that's important. Um, I just want to understand Doug Doug has been here for like with the Broadick administration, correct? You've been here since you came in under the broader commission. What is your question, Mr. Zosak? Make this [clears throat] a courtroom. No, I understand that. So, my choices are give his opinion and it's set out.

Yeah. Well, there was a lot of there's a lot of things said in 2015 when I was removed from the ballot and we were talking about utility money and there you could have stood up at that time and it could have been a relevant conversation there. The audit process. Now Rob, let's state board of accounts. Let's stick with relevance. Okay. I'm I'm going to keep it out. The state board of accounts auditing of the utilities has changed under your administration. No state. Yes, it has. They outsourced all of audited every year. There's been de Yeah, you're audited every year, but it's not. It's outsourced. It's not done by the state board of accounts. We've asked you to keep it to three minutes and you haven't done

because you want because you don't want me to speak. asking questions about where you don't want me to speak asking questions about his son where he works. Mr. President, may I may I may I point of order? Uh if he is going to be allowed to speak, he needs to stay uh gerine to the matter. Germaine to the matter and this is getting way out of hand. And I would advise you to take control of this decorum and give a point of order. Yeah, Mr. Mr. Jose, thank you for your comments. So, can I continue? No. Okay. No.

All right. What else? Anybody else out there have any comments to make? So long as they don't. All right. Do we have questions been called for? Councelor Turner. Yes. Council Harlo. No. Councelor Dixon. No. Councelor Freeman, yes. Council Wagner, yes. Councelor Landers, no. Councelor Culp, I'm going to abstain from this vote. Councelor Newman, yes. President Graham, yes. The count is five.

Five for the ordinance. Five yeses, three nos, one abstension. The ordinance passes on first reading. We're ready to move on. Let's go now to the sewage works uh request. You want to introduce it first? Yeah, we need to introduce it. Mr. President, I'd like to introduce ordinance 4-26. Second.

It's been moved and seconded. 4-26 is on the floor. Ordinance 4-26, an ordinance concerning the construction of additions and improvements to the sewage works of the city of Anderson, Indiana, the issuance of revenue bonds to provide the cost thereof, the collection, segregation, and distribution of the revenue sets sewage works, the safeguarding of the interests of the owners in said revenue bonds. Other matters connected therewith, including the issuance of notes in anticipation of bonds and repealing ordinance inconsistent herewith.

Now, I know we've been here a bit, so I'll be as brief as possible, please. Um, two ordinances in front of you. I think they're actually reversed. The first one, I think, is the bond ordinance. Is that right, Sheila? Do I have Okay. Yeah. So, we we kind of have them in reverse, but I I'll just give a brief overview of them. Okay. Um the bond ordinance is the borrowing for the sewer system, right?

Your sewer is a bit more complicated than your electric. Under Indiana law, you have to have revenues that exceed your expenses. You didn't have that in electric. It was that simple. And you and then in addition to that, you needed to make some improvements. We have the same problem on the sewer side. In addition to that, we have outstanding bonds, outstanding debt that requires us to have revenues that exceed our expenses. And if we do not, we are in violation of those ordinances. And those ordinances are essentially contracts with our our debt holders saying we will maintain revenues that exceed expenses. So to the extent we've we don't do something about this and our revenues fall our uh revenues fall beneath our expenses that is a violation of our bond ordinances. And you may say so what? Well that is a those are commitments to your lenders that you will you're good credit risk. And if you and you may say well that's you know it's just s or no. uh once you start down this path that will roll over on all the debt the city tries to borrow and that will hurt your credit rating and make it more expensive to borrow money if not impossible and it'll increase the cost for you to do so. So that's tough. Um the third option the third thing you need to remember too is the sewer utility and the mayor touched on this. you have a combined system. Uh the EPA and IDM came in, they they issued a consent decree which is pending in federal court as we speak and as part of that you have to make certain improvements to your sewer system to stay in compliance and this will allow you to do that. So we have a three-pronged problem. We have Indiana law. We have outstanding bond obligations. And we have a federal court order, an EPA consent decree that we

that we have to do some of these things to make sure we stay in compliance. Now, what I I thought we'd do on the sewer with your permission is we'd have three different folks talk to you. We'd have I'd have Tim talk to you briefly about the consent decree so you can get a better understanding on where that stands because that is outstanding litigation. And then I thought I'd have Jennifer talk again about um from a revenue standpoint, where are we? And your sewer engineer, and it's been your sewer engineer, I think Chris Kaufman and Pete Wamsley from Eegis are here. They've been your sewer engineers for literally decades. They'll talk to you about the improvements they think that need to be done. So, with that being said, Tim, do you mind coming up and talking to the council about this?

Thank you, Chris. Then uh Mr. President, members of the council, I'll be very brief. The mayor touched upon uh the matter involving the consent decree decree which exists and this is in fact the consent decree uh which goes back to the year 2002 and uh this is still a pending lawsuit. the federal government retain jurisdiction over this decree and the matters that are in it to make sure that uh the uh provisions of it, the agreements of the parties as contained within the consent decree are carried out. In fact, as part of this consent decree, the parties entered into what are called stipulated penalties that could be levied against the city for failure to comply with the uh consent decree or any modifications of the consent decree. Now, we've not ever had any penalties rendered against us, and we hope not to do that. And that's why we have been working with the uh federal agencies and the state agencies at times to come to these modifications of these of this decree. As the mayor mentioned, the this decree provided that by the year 2009, we would uh come up with the long-term uh control plan to eliminate the overflows, the combined sewer overflows uh by 2009. That soon became apparent that was not a realistic uh deadline. And so in 2010, a modification, here's the modification. It's much, you know, briefer than what is in the original decree, but a modification was entered to extend out the timeline and the process by which we could meet the goals of reducing these combined sewer overflows. And let's remember what that

what a combined sewer overflow is. It actually is putting raw sewage into the river. And we don't want that. No one wants that. So, it's a worthy goal to eliminate as much as possible the times that we put uh sewage into our river system. The 2010 agreement extended out the time length for us to uh reach these goals that we were wanting to wanting to do to the year 2029. However, around 2017, as the engineers continued to work on how do we meet these goals, what is the what are the improvements, the infrastructure we need to implement within our system, it became apparent that one of the major components of of reaching this, which was the construction of an underground storage tunnel and tank, which was a huge part of the whole overall process to meet this goal. it became apparent to the agencies and to the city that that that idea was out of date. It was inefficient and it was going to cost too much. So, it was back to the drawing board, you might say, as to what are we going to do with this consent decree? What are we going to do with the long-term uh control uh program? How are we going to really reach these goals? And quite frankly, since around the year 2021, we've been in earnest having discussions with the state agencies with IDM and with the EPA as to how can we realistically meet these goals. And recently, we have reached uh a timeline whereby the city was to to submit their proposal back to the to the agencies. Here's what we realistically think we can do and we should do to reach this goal of reducing as as as as much as we can the reduction of these combined

sewer overflows. And so we submitted into December our proposal to those agencies where we said if you'll give us more time, if you'll give us an additional 22 years, we feel we can eventually reduce the amount of the sewer overflows to no more than eight events per year. Now that is and that will come at a cost. There long-term capital costs estimated to do that of somewhere around $84 million. There are additional long-term uh non-long-term control plan uh capital costs that are also estimated to be around $103 million. So, there's a lot of costs involved in in operating this sewage utility as we go forward. But I guess what I would like to emphasize to you is what Mr. Jack talked about in terms of this is a federal court proceeding that we are underneath and we are in good faith. We've tried to reach it. We've made many of the goals that we said we would we would do in the long-term control plan, but we've had circumstances that have occurred such as the the this underground storage tank which we realized was not feasible. [snorts] You might remember at one time we had Chesterfield in our system as well. So, we had that revenue at one time uh several years ago. I think it was around 2018 or so, 2017, 2018. Chesterfield decided they would build their own plant. So, they're no longer involved in our system. We've had other things occur technological wise that I can't really adjust address. The engineers might be able to do that. I will say this, there have been additional regulations that have come along that we have to comply with. I think one of the most substantial regulations that the uh utilities had to take a look at uh which has come down from the state, come down from the federal government has to do with

phosphorus, the the amount of phosphorus you have in your system. So, we've had to to deal with all of this. We're going to have to continue to deal with all this. But what you have in front of you on this rate increase meets the goal that that Mr. Janak has talked about and the mayor has talked about in terms of complying with our bonds, our bond promises, promises we made to the holders of those bonds that they're those bonds are good. They can they can rely on the city implementing the rates that are necessary to make sure that the bond holders receive what they're entitled to. But we also need to seriously consider this this rate because I think it's somewhat different from from the the uh electric utility rate and that we are underneath we're dealing with mandates here from the federal government and the state government and I don't want to say that you know hey the guy they tell us we have to do it we have to do it to a degree that's true we've been negotiating in good faith and I think they've been negotiating in good faith with us do and to try to work with us to get a schedule and to get reasonable rates that that uh are implemented that can be afforded within this community. In 2024, we invited the uh regulators, both the federal and the state regulators to come to Anderson and we took them of a tour of the city to show them some of the challenges that we have in this community, show them uh a lot of the very great things in this city. But we also wanted to draw to their attention that this city has its challenges. And so we've asked them to work with us in terms of this modification. We think we're close there to it. They they've got the modification as as recently as two days ago. We had a meeting with them. We've been meeting with them via Zoom monthly and they

acknowledge they've received our proposal. They're looking at it. They have not had a lot of time to consider that, but we expect them to get back uh with us in in uh due course soon to let us know where they stand with our proposal. We think the proposal will achieve the goals of this elimination of the combined sewer overflows and hopefully do it in a in a way we think it will do it in a way which is fiscally responsible for the sew sewer utility and for the uh customers and the citizens of the city of Anderson.

Tim, I got a question. Who is the mayor back then when that fish still happened to I believe that was you know 1999 it would have been Mark Lawler been yes that was a long time

was a long time ago and you might remember I guess I should have maybe preface this the reason I feel this is my opinion more than fact my opinion is this uh consent decree the long-term control plan uh it certainly came into focus with the agencies due to the fish kill that happened. Now, the fish kill, the mayor talked about the penalties that were assessed at that time. Guide Corporation ended up paying something like $14 million in fines and penalties on that. And the city, we'd had to pay, you know, what what was talked about the $250,000, but that pales in comparison to the 14 million. But I believe that the agencies I this is again my my opinion on this. They said, "Well, we're here. Let's look at your system and see how your system does." And at at that time in 199 that was around the time that really nationwide the policies were being developed. How do we eliminate these combined sewer overflows? It's hard to argue with them. We don't want to put raw sewage into our our our lakes and streams and and rivers. So, you know, we did enter to the consent decree at that time, but we it was modified in 2010. We're hoping it'll be modified again, but allow us to obtain these goals that we're talking about, which is good for our environment and good, we think, for our sewer system.

Any other questions from the council? Thank you, Mr. L.

All right. I'm here to talk about the financials now for the sewage works. Just as I did on the electric utility, we came in and looked at 2022. 23 and 24. 24 was the test year that we used. And so on sewage works, we have uh expect to get the financials for 2025. Um and then we have projected forward what the salaries and wages and other adjustments for what we could see for budget of 2026. We made those adjustments. And for the revenue requirements for the sewage works, you have operation and maintenance and taxes. You have currently bonds outstanding and we're also trying to fund ongoing extensions and replacements with cash. That is your coverage amount. So we need to have that amount there as well. Uh your capital improvement plan for the next two years for 26 and 27 is approximately $12 million. And at this point in time, I'm going to let Chris Kaufman from Egis talk about the capital plan.

Thank you, Jennifer. My name is Chris Kaufman and I'm the water resources director for Eegis, formerly BLN. And with me tonight is Pete Wamsley, deputy director. And Christian is right. In 2001, the city of Anderson Water Pollution Control was one of the first projects I worked on as a junior engineer. Now, we haven't been the engineer for the entire time, but we've we've done a lot of work here, and I'm proud of that. And I can tell you that I can attest that Anderson's leadership is challenged us on every project to make sure that we're responsible with our projects, our capital projects cost. And I can see that I can tell you that that recently happened on one of our projects. We had a major project that we bid this summer and we had one bidder. And instead of just awarding it, the board of works rejected the bids and went back out and we were able to come this actually came back uh the bid was received uh two day two weeks ago and it came in under that original cost and that was because of the hard work that we did of re-evaluating the way that we did the work and in addition purchasing some critical equipment by Anderson and that reduced the markup cost on that as well. as Jennifer said that this these capital improvements are over the next two years and really the majority of what you see here is what it takes to operate the water pollution water pollution control facility in accordance with state and federal regulations. You will see that there is a capital project listed on this and this capital project list 2B. This project is mandated by the long-term control plan. It's the completion of the White River interceptor. This is the last phase and it starts at Immill and the White River and extends north along Immill and then back east to Liberty Christians off of Scatterfield Road. The pipe is 20 42 in. And when this is completed, like the mayor said, it'll remove two more overflow points. And this project will

be bid in the second quarter of 2026. The rest of these items are smaller capital projects and recurring costs. All right. So, looking back 22, 23, and 24, your revenues in 2022 and and actually in all four three years exceeded your expenses. And you can see there at the bottom in the range of 300,000 up to 375,000. So you had coverage in those three years. When we took your test year of 2024, we made adjustments for those expenses that we expected that happened in 25 and projected in 26. And those total about 1.8 million. So that $300,000 excess you had in 24 goes away in 25 and 26 going negative. And that's what's causing the coverage problem. So we made adjustments for salaries and wages, uh, gas, power and water, materials and supplies, contribution in lee of taxes, and some other adjustments to normalize the test year. Chris talked about the capital improvement plan. It's about $12 million. We are planning on bonding $8.7 million of that and the remainder of it to be funded with those excess coverage revenues to be coming in. So overall, your revenue requirements come to $24 million. Of that, $18.2 million of it is operation and maintenance. You have debt service and $4 million. And that was in 2025 and 2026. It's at $4 million. And your extensions and replacements is at 1.6 million. That means you have a deficit

of 3.5 3,575,000, which means you need a rate increase of 18%. What this means to a typical monthly bill is that you have minimum charges that the current charge is $32.84. It will go up just slightly under $6 to $38.77. And then when you do a rate survey, and I'll get to that here next, that's at 66,800 cubic feet is equivalent to 5,000 gallons. So, it's right really close to that 700 uh cubic feet user and they'll see an $8.15 increase. Again, I gave a utility bill example just as I did on the electric. We're only talking about the sewer residential line. That's that number there, that $45.14 of this bill that totals 213. We're only talking about that line going up 18%. Sorry, it's very small. I'll be sure to give you guys a copy of this. I updated the rate survey for January of 2026. Almost everyone has had a rate, not everyone, but as the mayor says, you guys are the lowest on there. You haven't had a rate increase since 2009. Everyone else has had a rate increase in the 2020s with the exception of two or three other utilities. So, you can see you're currently at level 31 out of 39. So, 31 or eight from the bottom. And this rate increase will bring you up to 26th. So you'll still you're still in the bottom half of all the comparable rates. You can see the highest one there is at $105 per month and that is a cso community. Um and you'll see the range in the middle is usually in the $50 range. You guys are going to be at $50.97 for the a 5,000galon user.

Now, what happens if you don't do the rate increase? Your estimated coverage with without the rate increase is your coverage at 63%. So, that's much lower than the 100% that you promised or previous councils promised in the bond ordinances that you would maintain. And so effectively, if you don't do this, it will cause you problems in future to actually issue debt because the bond holder wants to see that they get paid and you've made that rate covenant within the bond ordinance um ever since you've had debt. So it it's just a normal item that's in utility covenants that you're going to maintain rates to be able to pay operating expenses and debt service. And it's better if you have higher than 100%. And in fact, you can't issue parity bonds unless it's 125%, meaning you have more money to do capital improvements on an annual basis, but you have promised to maintain at least 100%. So with this rate increase, the coverage would be at 151% and that would coincide with your current rating on your sewage works bonds of A1. That's open for questions,

Mr. President. Yes, sir. Uh, you talked about it was going to raising these rates. We're going to move us up to 26th out of 39. Yes. But in our other meeting, didn't you tell us that there's like six or eight of those already putting in for uh raises, too?

Yes. So, any of the communities that, sorry, it's very small, but you can see the twos on the side. They have annual phased in rate increases just as we did on the water utility. They already have them in place. So I already know anyone with a two on the side has another rate increase coming either this year or another time period January uh January 1st 2027 they already have it built into their ordinances. We are talking about today only one phase only one increase. If this does not pass, what will the um uh what will you have to pay because we are not in compliance?

The effect is indirect in that once the financials come out for 2025 and it shows that coverage is lower than 100%. That gets reported to the bond community that's required. Um, so it won't have any immediate effect other than the next time we try to go out to sell debt, the bond, anyone that wants to invest in the bonds, we'll see that fines. There's no fines. Right. But our bond rating goes down. Okay. You may not be able to issue debt in the future. Right. Right. I understand that Chris might have some there.

Two two things. Christian Chino again Sheila to your answer Jeff I was just looking at the list Michigan City for example who's number 36 on here I I do work in Michigan City their sewer is going to they're raising theirs by over 100% this year um so it's happening and they have csos and they need to do stuff but Miss Culp to your question that that's a good qu and I didn't want to get into this too much but here's how bonds work uh when you it's kind of like when you do a mortgage uh our bond ordinance essentially says if we drop beneath 100% and we do not take steps to to fix that uh they can have a receiver appointed and they'll take over the system. They'll take it away from the city council. They'll take it away from the board of works and the receiver it'll be some guy like me who comes in and will run the utility and make all the decisions and he'll increase the rates to make sure that the debt is paid, his fees are paid and he'll make he'll do all of that. That's never happened in Indiana. um at least in decades probably since the Great Depression. And we don't have to I'm I'm going to I sound like Chicken Little probably to you, but I I swear this is true. If uh that that's not only bad for the customers because then they'll have to pay extra costs and pay all these legal fees and uh but it does if you get the reputation as a community of not honoring your bond covenants it does make it much more difficult for you to borrow money in the future if not impossible.

So how how long have we known that this was coming? We had I think we had coverage in uh we had coverage in 24 right. So, we did not know that we were going to be

well, we we had some we we had some until we knew exactly where we're going to go with a long-term control plan and how that's going to turn out and that is starting to crystallize a bit. There's really no at one point we thought it might be much more significant. Um, and there we still don't know how that's going to turn out. Uh, I think we'll have a better handle on that probably next year or in 28. at what exactly they're going to require. So, we're still not sure where we're going, but we do know coverage. 24 we're okay. 25 we're not going to be okay. So, it's something we're fine now. We just But we do need to fix this. We do need to fix it. Any other questions from the council? Questions from the audience?

Yeah. Come to the podium. Rob, stay on the subject. Mr. Jose, didn't go off the subject. Yes, you did. No, I did not. We're not gonna have that. Can I sneak in first? Point of order. Sneak in real quick. Go ahead. Thank you, Angie. Um, Angie Strickler, uh, 2232, Gregory Lane, 46012. And my question goes back to when Mr. Lannon was presenting. So, well, first, this bond is for $10 million. Is that right? Okay. up to

up to 10 million. Yes. Thank you. And so the mayor alluded to this earlier. You mentioned that in maybe 2028 2029 we're looking at $84 million plus $103 million. Is that like is that what Mayor Brick was alluding to as down the road we might have to look at this again? So, this $10 million is really just a band-aid for now, but we're looking at a $200 million potential bond coming in three years. I mean, just to clarify, I want to make sure I'm understanding that right. I I can't really say Tim assistant city I can't really say that's going to be a bond but the expenses needed to uh carry out the infrastructure and the improvements that we're going to need to implement the long-term control plan as a as hopefully as amended. Those are the figures that we're looking at there. So it's likely and I saying it's probably prudent that we will come back on a regular basis. uh you know whether that's every two years I'm thinking probably more four years on a four year

address the time period that we'll have that to make payment right we're okay we're looking at an extension of 24 or more additional years

so so it's a it's a long-term type of a process to implement these uh these these improvements but yet those improvements will be along those lines of the costs that you've you've mentioned and I've talked about and so it's going to be prudent for us in the future on a regular basis I would suspect every four five years or whatever to take a look at what rates do we need to continue to you know to construct the improvements that we need and to also keep up with the other costs of of the utility. Mr. President, may I ask a question? You sure can. Mr. Lannon.

Yes, ma'am. The first extension was for how many years? Uh first extension was for 20 years. Yes. 20 years. Yes. And so now we're predicting another 24 more years on the extension. And um do you have family here? I sure do. And so I'm curious, how many years do you think it should be acceptable for us to just dump raw sewage into the river? I I don't think it's I don't think it's acceptable at all. It is not acceptable at all. and 24 years more is pretty alarming if we're just going to put a band-aid on it right now. Well, I I think and I maybe the superintendent of the utility or somebody can address how we've been reducing opinion on that one.

Yeah. No, I I agree. I wish we could get them down to zero. The cost in doing that is another issue, but maybe the engineers or somebody in the other team wants to address that comment, that's fine. But I appreciate I can tell I can tell you I'm hoping that Ryan maybe can expound on the improvements that we've had in the system in that regard. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're only correcting two csos here, right? Two overflows. That's it. That's all that's going to be corrected on this, right? And we have 11 of them still. I'll let Ryan

May I? Ryan Pascal, superintendent water pollution. uh based on the flows. Okay, we are eliminating two sources towards the river where the the valves open or the flap gates open, it goes to the river. Combined with that, as the improvements grow, those get lessened volumewise. You have duration volume going against each other. So when one goes, it doesn't necessarily mean as many gallons as another. With our improvements throughout the system, we're going to be lowering the ability of the water to leave the system. It's going to stay in storage coming to the plant in transit. That's why it takes so long over the years. I think I answered the question. Is that under normal weather conditions?

Based on the year of 1995 is what all the uh geographical data is considered a standard year based on the rainfall from 1995. Oh, that's good to know. Statistically, it actually is very helpful. Um I I'm glad that we have some kind of data. Thank you. And what we do with that data is we go for the best case scenario, you know, best case scenario.

So it's it's not a case of we're only going to have very little rain. Let's only design to that. That's why we pick a specific year that had more rain than normal. That averages out your monthly rainstorms versus a drought summer and a wet winter. We try to get a wet year together for it so that we're designing to minimize how much impact rain's going to have. Other communities who have similar problems. I know that we are not the only ones who are dealing with this. I realize that this is a kind of somewhat common issue. Um, do you feel like that we're keeping up to par with making our fix in the same same fashion that other communities are that are similar to ours?

In the communities that are similar to ours being that they have 100-year-old sewers. Uh, what I mean by communities similar to ours, I'm referring more to the demographical status of our city. meaning meaning sorry clarify meaning other other communities that are diverse in the manner that our community is here. Okay. When you think about the money that our folks bring home in their pocket, right? The fixes that we're making, are we up to par with other communities that are at our level? Yeah, we're doing good.

Are we keeping up? Do you feel like that these this fix is that we're keeping up by doing this? This is enough to keep up with everyone else,

to keep up with the with the needs and to be able to afford it with the people of the city. It It's a money question. We could fix it all today if we had 3.3 billion. Nobody in this city has that to throw at the sewers. Well, we knew we didn't have that all these years ago, too, and didn't do anything to put a plan into place to make sure that as we went forward, we were making those strides. I understand that we made improvements along the way and that we're still continually making improvements, but no one has made a plan that is long-term and that will sustain and be efficient and that will incorporate these fixes and give us the power to be able to make adjustments as necessary and improvements to the infrastructure along the way and account for future increases due to inflation and unforeseen events, whatnot, yada yada. Look, we know that this problem exists. We've known about it for a very long time. Everyone keeps saying that. And yet here we are talking about another band-aid and it's going to be 24 more years on the extension.

Scary. It's scary. I have children here. I have children here that I would like for them to stay here, but how in the world can we continue to do this kind of government and move forward in a fashion that's going to be productive and give us something of a result that we're actually desiring in the end. The long-term control plan is a detailed 22-year plan of what projects are going to sir. that no amount of raw sewage in our river is acceptable.

I understand that we have a threshold that is allowable. I'm not sure I agree with that threshold limit either. And some of that is personal opinion, don't get me wrong, but uh and I understand that some of this is us doing the best that we can with what we have, so to speak. But I am not going to be the person who sticks it to the customer. I'm a customer, too, for that matter. And I'm not putting all this on our customers. It is not their fault that this has piled up in their lap like it has, Mr. President. It's not. It's not. And I think we can do better. I think we can we can do better. We need a better proposal. We need other options. This cannot be the only way. Coun, Mr. President,

Councilman Newman, in the capacity that we are all nine of us, I'm going to key in on you. Okay. give this gentleman's solution. Hey Joe, how much time have you had to think about this bud? When did this get presented to us? You know, what am I supposed to do? Think about it while I'm dreaming and sleeping in my bed at night? I haven't had a chance to process enough to be able to come up with any other fixes for this.

Okay, that's enough. Um, I will tell you this. Uh, 2009, 2008 is when I became aware of this problem. We were uh sued basically by the EPA federal. That's what Tim is talking about with the consent decree. We went to work. We come to the council. We got a rate increase uh and we fixed a lot of the problems. Now, you got to you got to know where it was and where it is now. At one time, think about this. A rainfall of one half of one inch we could not handle. We didn't have the capacity to treat it. They would open a lever and into the White River it went. Okay. We have come a long way.

I have acknowledged that. Yeah. And and I said that in my my email that I sent to members. We're not quite there yet, but we can see the end. We are much better shape. I don't see the end, Mr. President. I disagree. I see in 24 more years another ask for an extension. That's what I see. If we can only correct two sewer overflow systems, I think we started with 28. Is that right? 28 CSOS and we're now down to we're going to wait another 24 years and ask for we need to move forward and that's what they're wanting to do. But this is just a temporary fix. This is not a long-term solution. Well, it's not the final fix. It's not.

Why can't we just do a longer fix? That's what I don't understand. And why can't we present something that is more feasible to the pockets of our customers? Yes. And more long-term solution that gives us the end result that we're looking for. Isn't that the whole goal here is to get down to zero. That's what that's what Tim Lennon's working on now is another extension of the long of the uh consent decree.

So, and also if you went for the total fix today, I can't tell you what that would add to the rateayers. So, I'm not asking for a rate increase to cover it all right now, Greg. What I'm asking for is that we get a plan together that is long-term that will get us there. And we do this slowly in increments over time. But we need to plan and prepare for that now. Not just put this band-aid on it and then another band-aid and another band-aid. Why can't we go, this is where we're at. This is where we're going. We're going to do X, Y, and Z to end up here. Why can't we do that? We'll let Mr. land and talk to that or one of the consultants. Are you

I for one would just like to know when are we going to stop dumping in the river? When is it going to stop?

Well, until we carry out the plan, which I yield to the engineers as to why we can't snap her finger and do that, like even within a year or a couple of years, these are called long-term control plans for a reason. It takes a long time and as time goes on and other circumstances arise, you have to adjust your plan to deal with those. Uh it I I would agree with with the president of the council if if we were to implement I guess everything that needed to be done to totally eliminate all of the uh overflows say within a couple of years. I I I I can't tell you. I could only speculate that the rate increase that you would be imposing upon the customers in order to do that would be astronomical. It'd be far more than what is involved here. We think a better approach is to work out a reasonable plan with the agencies to allow us to go forward with periodical uh reviews of what our rates are so that we can continue to work on the plan and get it in place. You know, I agree with you. you I wish that you know the first time that the plan was constructed it was uh able to be implemented and implemented and carried out by the year 2009. But what do you do when you when you when you face the facts that that's not going to occur? You have to go back and redraw the plan. I can tell you that I mean the agencies stay on you and I've talked about this consent decree. it it provides for these penalties that will be implemented if we do not do something and can continue to move forward with trying to take care of the problems. So, I don't think anyone's dragging their feet on this. We just need to do this in a fashion that is not punitive to the citizens of this of the of the of the city when it comes to the finances that

they're looking at, but yet will meet the long-term control plan goals. So that's what we are working with the the agencies on. Uh I can tell you that it's going to call for their agreement on this. They are the EPA. They are IDM. So you know we feel confident we're going to be able to reach something which will achieve these goals. Mr. President. Yes ma'am. The public cannot afford our utility rates as it is. You see some of that every day. I do. And Anderson Township serves 33,000 plus people.

And so when I've got folks coming through my door and they have a $3,100 utility bill that they can't pay, but now they've been cut off all of a sudden, right, after it's been allowed to accumulate to $3,100, mind you, but now they they want their utilities back on and they can't get it turned back on. And that's with the rates that we have, sir. And that's with a partial water increase, not the full increase. Right. You know, our folks, I hope everyone is watching, our folks have gotten a partial water increase already. They're not even seeing the full effect of that. But these two increases will take effect as soon as it's passed, right? No, not the

Okay. Well, not the electric because it has to go before the IURC, but given the information on that one, it's probably pretty good chance of that. At any rate, our folks that impact that is a shell shocker for them. just this little bit is a shell shocker for them. It really is. And right now, township government is the ones that provides the assistance to those who cannot afford their utilities or who get in a situation and need help to get out of it. And right now, today, in fact, guess who was rallying at the state house to try and save township government so that we can continue to provide that assistance. So, if that goes away, then these folks have nothing.

And then what? And then what? So, if you can't keep your customers here and keep customers paying, it's not going to matter if you increase the rate, you're not going to increase your revenues if there's no one here paying the bills. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. I do have one real quick question. Sorry, Jennifer. Um, you mention I think it was you that mentioned the ones with twos next to it. Yes. They're ones that have regular rate increases. They Yeah, they passed ordinances that show subsequent phases. So, if I put a two next to them, I know that they have another rate increase coming in a subsequent phase.

Do you know if they're like every year it's 3% or or every two years? Do you have any of that information? I can get that information. I would love to know that information. It is 39 communities. So each one of them are just the ones with that have the regular rate increase that you know of the other ones are uh different. I understand. Yes, I can get that. Thank you. I almost forgot what I was going to say but

Angie Okay. Angie Strickler 46012. I do want to thank Mayor Broadick and his administration for bringing this forward because clearly we all know this is something that needs to be addressed. I also want to acknowledge though that the council once again has been put into a position of trying to make a decision rather quickly and just from the presentations tonight we can see it's there's a lot to it and very complicated. So um it would have been nice to have some more time. I understand that from the council. Um my question my second part of my question is to Miss Wilson. What would the uh sewer rates be for people who don't have a um city water? They're on a well, but they have city sewer. So, it's just a fixed rate.

Okay. Uh on the schedule of present and proposed rates, the unmetered monthly user rate for a residential is currently $63.71 and they would increase to $75.7.

Thank you. Theirs goes up more than theirs goes up more than Yeah, they basically that's um so much consumption is already assumed in that. I think it's I just the quick number I think it's about 10 1000 cubic feet and so that's more than a typical user. Mr. Joak, [clears throat] you have three minutes. Hey, Rob Jose, 8:15 Rael Avenue. Um, I just want to clarify. I mean, I was shut down last time from asking questions. This, um, rate increase is going to be used to service pre-existing debt. Correct.

Correct. Correct. Okay. And I just want to just clarify this. There's always a crisis with combined sewer overflow when they need more money. They had the money for the projects that they already they raised the rate previously for previous projects that that those rating that money has been mismanaged and there's a long history in this city of and it's illegally it's illegal moving money from the utilities into the general fund. What is your question? No, no, I'm just stating something. There's a long history and I got a right. I got three minutes. You have three minutes.

Yes. Okay. There's been a long history. It's been documented. On the topic. I am on topic. The money that we have paid for rate increases in the past has been mismanaged. Yes, it has. There there's actually in the last 12 in the last 10 years since the 2015 election, you have changed the audit process and outsourced it. What is your question? I'm not asking a question. And I'm making a statement. You've got about a minute. Okay. There's been and I and I'll fall into that. There's been a long history

of moving the money and we can't track it anymore because the state board of accounts is is the truth. And you don't like the truth. It's the truth. We need forensic audits to find out where our money's gone. That's enough. That's enough, Mr. President. That's done. If you wouldn't cut me off, I am cutting you off because you fail fail to recognize any rule. No. Uh and you made personal attacks. That's unacceptable. No personal attacks. Yeah. No, Mr. President. But you did personally attack the controller and we're not going to have that. I asked a question. No, that question was out of line. That was not out of line. Thank you for your comments, sir.

Does anybody else have it? Yes,

Nicole Capishinsky, disgruntled combat veteran from Spring Hill Road in Anderson. Okay, I got a question from the audience on YouTube and it's related to the contracts and somebody was asking if any of you have a business that is contracting with the city of Anderson, any of the city council, because somebody thinks that one of you has a contract with the city and that the voting on this stuff is a conflict of interest. So, I think we'll have to look into that. So, that's from the audience on YouTube. So, we'll keep moving. Okay. I'm coming from a personal point. I think you guys know this. I have waited to meet some of you guys for a really long time.

Can you talk to the mic? Yes, I can talk into the mic. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, my mother contracted um an incurable disease from groundwater contamination in the 1960s. So, my family has really been um plagued by the issue that you guys are trying to fix. So I do agree that we need to infrastructure with the sewage. I understand the need for it and I was actually I lived or I was born by CSO 25. So can any of you tell me which um CSOS are the ones that the interceptor is supposed to be cutting off? Do you know 25

25 and 26? Okay. Who's responsible for the mapping on ID like the item map? like do you guys report to item and tell them where to put the csos because currently can you come forward please to the microphone maybe all of you need to come up for this yes our GIS locations for the csos the actual outlet ports is reported in our NPDS permit application okay well I found an issue which so cso 25 is showing up down by Athletic park closer to I could pull it up real quick and I don't want to take up too much time so we can deal deal with this later.

Is that part of your public is that part of your public record u request that question you're answering asking? No, but I've [clears throat] been dealing with item on it because item promised they were going to fix it but I saw an opportunity window and I just wanted to have the answer before I have to go another four to eight weeks before they answer it. So CSO2 on the item map is showing up wrong. So, it's closer to Pittsford's ditch, closer to Scatterfield. So, that I don't know if you can fix that. So, but if you guys are going and you're sending out work crews to go take care of these issues, I think that would be something that would throw everybody off a little bit.

Okay. Will you guys, including the Aegis group, look into this? Yes. And get an answer and communicate that answer to her. Yeah. I I we get at the next meeting. It's And then last. Okay. So, some of the concerns from um constituents and voters are that the citizens feel as if we are missing out on a bunch of federal grants um that can take care of a lot of these issues that they're having on the ground. So, I don't know who's responsible for that, but that might be something you want to get somebody on board works. Okay. Take care of that works, but these fellas know about that stuff, too. Okay. And then, um last,

let's let's see if we can get you an answer. Can one of you guys give us an answer about possible federal grants? Yes, there is an opportunity to have federal grants. You have to go through the state revolving fund in order to pursue those that type of funding. Does it make sense to do that? Yes, and we have submitted an application previously. However, because of the negotiations with the long-term control plan, we're unable to complete that until the EPA consales that part. Didn't want to take too much your time. Is that okay?

That makes sense. That makes sense because I read through the packet. And lastly on the with the people concerned about the brown water and the you know you guys have just admitted the csos are pumping in. My husband was in the White River in June right at the same time that Chesterfield pumped out 930% above action level of E.coli into the White River and he's been sick. He was sick for nearly four to six weeks after that. So our concern is um water boils and why we aren't getting alerted to the when these things happen. Like I know we get mailers. So if we don't have something like a functioning program that can alert us then the citizens would like to see that kind of put into the long-term okay

plan that somebody want to come to the microphone please. Are you guys aware of what she's saying? Is is that factual information? Okay. Um, I'm unfamiliar with that event. You said that was Chesterfield. Yeah, Chesterfield was the violated. The EPA website's kind of messy right now. So anyway, it seemed like a whole bunch of us right around the same time all had brown water. Okay. So right after at like in core. So it could have been with the interceptor and the projects that you guys were working on or it could have been the wastewater. And now we'll never know who really turned or you know what caused it. But if or when the csos are I guess overflowing

just as a point of clarification are you talking about drinking water or the waste water part going to do waste water because I understand the drinking water part and it's all separate. So I do understand that but like what like the csos when you say like the rain water comes down there's overflow into the river. Okay we're over three minutes. Oh will you guys look into this? I can. Yeah. Yeah. Wait a minute, ma'am. Give me one second. What? As far as this uh one of us doing business with the sewer and stuff. Mhm. There's a conflict of interest form. Yeah. That if we're doing business with the city government, we sign it.

What the business is and what kind of service that we provide to the city. We understand. They sent me all the screenshots and nobody had it signed. So, I think the person who asked that question will be digging into that a little more. So, that's it. It it'll work itself out in the wash. But, thank you for answering it. Thank you. Any other questions? Council audience question. Questions been called. Councelor Turner. Yes. Councelor Harlo, I abstain. Councelor Dixon, I abstain. Councelor Freeman, yes. Councelor Wagner, yes. Councelor Landers, abstain.

Councelor Culp, abstain. Councelor Newman, yes. President Graham, yes. You got your five five votes cast in the affirmative. Has passed. And this ordinance has passed its first reading. We'll move on now to 4-26. I would like to bring forth to the uh city council for the first reading 5-26, please. Second. Ordinance 5-26, an ordinance of the city of Anderson, Indiana, amend amending certain rates and charges relating to the sewage works of the city of Anderson. Thank you, gentlemen.

Mr. President, I don't I don't know that I have a whole lot to add. This the two go the two the two the two go hand in hand. So if you've passed the bonds ordinance on the first reading, the only way to get coverage to issue the bond actually I would say this is more important than the bonds. They're both important, but you you can't do the bonds if you don't have revenues that even cover your expenses. So uh I did want to answer Councilwoman Harless. I you ask where everybody else is on this. I will tell you that the city of Evansville, whose current rates are $85 a month, are having the same conversations are in and they are in the same place you're in. Crown Point number one up there uh at $105 that they're try they're trying to go through the same process you guys are. It is it's an expensive expensive fix that you have to do incrementally without just clobbering your customers and ruining your community. So to answer your question, yes, there are others feeling your pain.

Thank you. Yeah. Questions from the council on this ordinance. Questions from the audience on this ordinance. Last chance. Okay. You said question. Question. You said question. Question's been called. Councelor Turner. Yes. Councelor Harless. I abstain. Councelor Dixon. I abstain. Councelor Freeman. Yes. Councelor Wagner. Yes. Councelor Landers abstain. Councelor Cole abstain. Councelor Newman. Yes. President Graham. Yes. Mr. Chairman. Yes sir. I'm move that we adjourn this evening. Second. We are joured.