Town Council - Regular Meeting

It's 6:30. So, I'm going to open to attendees and begin recording. Recording in progress. We are recording. Please go ahead.

Good evening. Seeing a presence of a quorum, I am calling the April 6th public forum on the Community Preservation Act appropriations to order at 6:30 p.m. Please be advised that this meeting is being held in person and that the remote access option for members of the public is provided as a courtesy only. In the event of technology issues with the remote connection, the meeting will continue in person as scheduled as long as there is a quorum of the council present in the town room or through technological means. Chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 has been extended through June 30th, 2027. The ability of the public body to meet without a quorum of the council physically present in this meeting location, although we do have a quorum of the council present in the town room tonight. This meeting is being recorded and is accessible in real time via Zoom, by phone, and as a live broadcast on Ammeris Media Channel 9 and on the YouTube live stream. I will call upon each counselor by the name they have indicated that they would like to be addressed. Um, please indicate that we can hear you and you can hear us. Councelor Brevik,

here. Counselor Conno Martin here. Andy Churchill, yes. Anna Delane Gothier, not yet. Not yet. Here. Lynn Grymer, present. Mandy Joe Hani, Councelor Lord, present. Sam Mloud, Pam Rooney, here. Counselor Ryan present. Kathy Shing here. Jennifer Ta

here. and councelor Walker is present. If counselors have any technical issues, please let the clerk of the council know or call a point of personal privilege. Um, I would like to take a moment to pass this to Kathy so that you can call the finance committee meeting to order. I I have to I have to quickly look at participants to see if we we have Joseph Jane is here in the room already. I don't see any other. So with the council members all here, um, Joseph Jane. Yes, I am here. Thank you.

That I call the finance committee to order.

Thank you, Kathy. Um, so in this public forum, we will start with um Paul who will speak briefly regarding the appropriations and Sean may also have something to add. I just did also want to add that we will move to uh the public comment afterwards and we will attempt to organize this in two sections. So first all projects other than the Jones library and then we will move along to comments regarding the Jones library. So if you are present in the town room and would like to sign up for public comment, please be sure to do so on the correct uh sheet. Um and I will make this announcement again afterwards, but for now I will pass it to Paul. Thank you. Um so this is their uh the public forum on request by the CPA committee to the council for funding the um the various items that they have in their report to you. They did a complete presentation at your last meeting and so we're not going to re redo that presentation. It also includes a borrowing order to authorize debt for the construction of the war memorial bath house which would be under the open space and recreation part. Okay. And I don't see if Sean has anything that he would like to add. No, I don't see it here. Okay. No problem. Okay. So, we will move into the public forum comment period. Anyone wishing to comment or ask a question specific?

Alicia, Anna's here. Oh, yes. I just wanted to say hi and that I was here before we got into public comment and that I can hear you. Great. Thank you, Anna. Um, Anna has joined us at 6:34 p.m. I was here at 6:32.

6:32. Thank you, Anna. Um, anyone wishing to comment or ask a question specific to the CPA appropriations that are not related to the Jones project, um, please make sure you are signed up. Anyone who is attending remotely and would like to make a comment regarding the CPA appropriations not related to the Jones project, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. Residents are welcome to comment or ask a question specific to the recommended appropriations related to this public forum. This is not a general public comment period. This period will take place during the regular town council meeting that will begin directly after this public forum adjourns. Public forum comments or questions are not reflective of the opinions of the town council. Because this is a public forum, if questions are asked, there is a potential for getting them answered. Um, right now we have two hands raised on Zoom. Can I ask Athena how uh many signups we have in the town room?

Zero for non Jones CPA. Okay, great. So, um, we will allow three minutes uh for each comment and we will start on Zoom. Um, Darcy Jameson, if you would like to unmute, state your name and make your comment, please. Hi. Um, I think that I'm supposed to be in general public comment, so I will I will hold until then. Okay, no problem. Thank you. Thank you.

Then we will move to Bonnie. Please unmute, state your name, and make your public comment. Hi, this is Bonnie Isman and I'm talking today on behalf of the Amoris Historical Society just to convey our appreciation for the CPA funding recommendation to help preserve the Simeon Strong House. This is a house that's graced Ammerst for over 250 years and was originally a center for Tories and loyalists in the revolution. However, ironically, it later became the home of the daughters of the American Revolution, celebrating the re revolution. So, this is just one of the many stories that we tell with the historical society, and we greatly appreciate your support. Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie. Um, we have Joy Bowman also on Zoom. If you can please um unmute yourself, state your name, and make your comment. Yes, thank you so much. Uh I am Joy Bowman and I am representing the Goodwin Memorial Goodwin um Memorial AM Zion Church. And um like the previous um speaker, I want to just say thank you for your support of the work that we hope to get done at Goodwin. Um we've had a little bit of confusion over the course of the year. We lost our pastor in uh November and so we've been um trying to catch up to where uh she was. uh we didn't have the information at the time and so we just appreciate your patience um waiting for us to make um

you know make our proposal clearer and we have an architect coming in and looking forward to um being in touch with the committee. So thank you so much.

Thank you Joy. Okay, I do not see any other hands on Zoom to make a public comment regarding to CPA appropriations other than the Jones Library project. Um, so I will move along and ask that anyone wishing to comment or ask a question specific to the CPA appropriation that is the Jones Library project, please make sure you are signed up with the clerk in the town room. And if you are commenting via Zoom, please raise your hand now. Um, Athena, how many signups do we have in the room? Two. Um, and I see only one on Zoom right now. So, we will continue with the 3 minutes per comment. Um, can we start in the town room, Athena? Sure. K Farber.

Thank you very much. Hear me. Now, I'm Kent Ferber, a member of resident district 5, co-chair of the Jones Library Capital Campaign Committee, and I appreciate the opportunity to talk about the Jones Library recommended grant tonight. Uh, this is a large and complicated project and a large and complicated issue, a subject about a lot issues of raised about. So, I'm wondering if I might have an additional two minutes to make the remarks that I have. I have them prepared. I'm not going to ramble on, but if I could have a couple more minutes to cover them, that would be appreciated.

Okay. Thank you. Um, I am willing to allow you an additional two minutes for public comment unless there are any objections from other counselors present. If so, please raise your hand. Okay, you can proceed with five.

Thank you very much. We hope the town council will approach this grant by respecting both the letter and the spirit of the law through which it's brought to you. This is different from most of the spending decisions you have to make because the community preservation act has very detailed terms about the way in which funds are levied, their their use is restricted and the procedure by which they're allocated. First, this is not a referendum about the larger library project. The quote CPA funded project close quote under consideration is only for the preservation of some historically important and beautiful wood. Most of the considerations raised about the larger project are not relevant. For example, disapproving this project will not free up funds for roads, schools, or any other uh town needs. CPA funds can be used only for historic preservation, affordable housing, and recreation and open space. This grant will not raise or lower anyone's taxes. The same char search charge will be collected whether this grant is approved or not. That's why the prior CPA grant was not considered quote a penny more close quote when the town limited its general revenue commitment to the to the project. And a grant today would not be so considered either. Nobody's taxes will be raised by either of these grants. And the competitive process for awarding CPA funds prescribed by the law in great detail clearly implies the standard to be used in judging grant applications. The carefully composed committee is charged with comparing which applications among only those presented to it each year best carry out the purposes of the CPA act and then then constructing a a slate of recommendations that carefully

reflect that comparison. Pulling one element out of the committee's carefully constructed slate upsets that calculation and should not be done without an overwhelming reason to do so. This is very difficult and timeconsuming work the committee has engaged in involving dozens of hours of discussion, negotiations, and reading hundreds of pages of documentation. Rejecting this slate disrespects the hard work the committee put into creating it and provides little incentive for it to commit to such work in the future. So again, this decision is a very narrow one, namely whether the committee aired in deciding that preserving some very specific, beautiful, and historic woodwork advances the goals of the community p community preservation act as well as the other projects presented this year. It would be difficult to imagine a historic project that does that more effectively. The 1928 Philippine mahogany woodwork being preserved has been repeatedly identified by experts for its historic value. The historic preservation community of Ammerst and other residents have repeatedly demanded this work and the Mass Historical Commission requires it. If the town had elected not to pursue the large library project and chosen only to repair the present building, there's no question that this that preserving this woodwork would have been included and that CPA funds would have been sought and readily granted for it. With hundreds of thousands of patrons going by this woodwork every year, there'll be few other projects that will more visibly demonstrate the value of historic preservation. The allegations that this grant is ineligible under the law are all unfounded. The town's attorneys have made it clear that this grant would not quote quote supplant close quote the detailed terms of the bond authorization for the larger

project. Bob Parrot and Fontaine have confirmed that $330,000 of the work funded by the recommended grant is not quote underway and won't be used and won't be needed until after July 1. And the exact wording of the community community preservation act rules require that only the quote CPA funded project close quote must comply with the secretary of the interior standards. Funds from this grant will not be used for anything but woodwork. preservation. Both the planning department and the opinion of the historic preservation expert you have now received confirm that this is the customary way CPA projects that are part of a larger construction project are reviewed. So again, we hope the council will set aside whatever it thinks about the larger library project and carry out the purposes of the community preservation act by supporting this much more limited but very important preservation of some of the town's most significant historic assets. Thank you for your work on this.

Thank you, Kent. Um and we can move to Jeff Lee on Zoom. Um please unmute, state your name, and make your public comment. Thank you. I'm Jeff Lee with Bob. I just like to point out that in Excuse me, Jeff. I'm not sure if you're aware, but your voice is just coming through distorted. I'm not sure if there's a setting to address that on your end, but it's hard to understand exactly what you're saying. Is that any better?

That's much better. Thank you.

I don't know why I have that problem, but thank you. Um, yeah, I just like to point out in your packet there is a letter from uh the law firm of uh Anderson Kger. They represent several towns across Massachusetts. Um, and it articulates their opinion that the Jones Library CPA request is uh not compliant with the law uh for two reasons. The it violates the non-supplanting rule of the Community Preservation Act and it does not qualify. It does not meet the Secretary of the Interior standards for his treatment of historic properties. um that you may recall has been um communicated in a letter from the Mass Historic Commission. Um so I would advise you to take a good look at that letter. Um it was written by um attorney Mina Marius who represents the town of Lexington. Um would also like to point out that the letter from uh Virginia Adams that claims that uh the violation of secretary standards does not matter because the uh uh MOA for the section 106 review was was signed and agreed to by the mass historic commission. Well, there's no rules that say the me that a section 106 review has to meet the secretary standards, but there are rules that say that CPA requests need to meet the secretary's standards. Same as for mass historic rehabilitation tax credits. That's why Amoris was denied for those. So, uh, just wanted to point that out. And um I also wonder why if the library if this money is being paid out of taxpayer

funds why is it not credited to the taxpayers rather than to the library share of the project. So thank you for your consideration. Um thank you Jeff. Um and Athena can we please move back to the tone room? Vince Okconor. Uh, Vince, great. Thank you.

Um, Vince, please um use the mic, state your name, and make your comment.

Yes, my name is Vincent Okconor. I live at 175 Summer Street, apartment 12 in North Ammerst. Um, I was a member of the CPA committee and the petitioner for all three in both the original CPA appropriation and the two increases uh through the town meeting. I served as vice chair of the CPA committee for the last four years. my two three-year terms um from which lasted from 2004 to uh 2010. Um this is actually um this request in light of the the real destruction of the historic character of that building. Um is uh is such an a flagrant um abuse of the historic preservation uh feature and having served on the committee for six years and been around long before and since. Um there are plenty of un um served historic preservation needs in this town. um and that have not been addressed because of the persistent willingness of this council to give money to a project that they which monies they claim are fundraising, not town appropriations. That's absurd. We all know it's absurd.

um this appropriation should be rejected. And I think that the council and the CPA committee ought to take a much broader look at historic preservation than simply continuously giving money to this project and other projects related to town properties. Um we have missed the boat in many ways of of doing preservation work. Um instead just focusing on town properties in a way that I think is really um an abuse of the CPA's purpose and of and of the um the historic preservation um mandate. It isn't just to preserve historic features of town buildings and town properties. This project should be more broadly applied to historic properties throughout the town and all aspects of them rather than being focused as it has been. Thank you.

Thank you, Vince. Um, and on Zoom we have Maria Copiki. if you can please unmute, state your name, and make your comment.

Thank you. Maria Kapiki, South Ammerst. Um, I hope that you guys have uh read the uh emails that I've been sending you. Um, there was a pretty complete one. I won't touch on everything there because that's way more than three minutes time and I won't do that. Um uh I will note that previous memos that I had sent to the CPAC committee before they were to deliberate and vote um one of mine did not get sent to the committee as I had asked. Um but uh I hope that those memos also get sent to the town council before you take your vote. This is even simpler than Kent Farber is saying. This is not about will this project happen. It's not about will the woodwork happen. The woodwork's going to happen. The woodwork's been part of the budget. It's in the budget. It's in the construction documents. We all know that. That's why it's inappropriate for the library fundraisers to ask for this money. This is about promises that you made and were made on your behalf um and that the trustees made every time this came up for a vote. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. about a penny more. And you were given documents when you reconsidered this project last spring about a year ago and you received a memo that said, "No, no, no, no, no. The rest of the money that the fundraiser going to are going to get is going to be private, federal, or state." Last time I checked, Ammerst taxpayer money that is the primary and overwhelming source of money that goes out in CPA is none of those. Um, I hope you will give no credence to this um, argument I just heard tonight

about not separating it out. You guys know as well as I do that there is ample precedent for separating items out for CPA and for other things. And the fact is this money does have an impact on other things. It has an impact on other projects that didn't get funded at all this year and may die. I'm talking about pickle ball. It has an impact about how that $3 million is going to be used and whether there's going to be additional borrowing which is going to incur more interest. There are impacts and what I'm just asking you guys to do is to keep your word. This project's going to happen. The woodwork's going to happen. But it does. There are sketchy reasons at best that they've given that this does not violate all kinds of rules. So, just say no and it will happen anyway. Thank you.

Thank you, Maria. Athena, do we have anyone else left in the town room? No, that's it. Okay. Thank you. Um, seeing that there aren't any additional public commenters at this time, I will make I will move Oh, sorry. Kathy, can you please adjourn the finance committee meeting? Yes, the finance committee is adjourned.

Unless you need to make take a vote of all the finance committee members. Well, I am just noticing that we have another hand up on Zoom. Is it too late to take that hand? No. Go ahead. Okay. Um, so Hedi Startup, I do see that you um are raising your hand. Can you please unmute, state your name, and make your comment?

Hello everyone. My name's Hedi Startup. I live in North Amist. I'm currently on the AmIst Historical Commission. And I just want to comment on a item that was sent to add to the packet for your agenda at town council tonight. I have a slightly different memory of how things unfolded at the meeting where we discussed the Jones Library project and many other projects. Um, I do remember questioning why they were applying because it was my understanding that things that were funded had already been taken care of in the final bid for the project. Um, we did discuss some things that they were requesting funding for. Um, we also looked at all of the other projects that were being proposed under the historic preservation category. And because our chairperson is always having to recuse themselves because they work for the Mass Historical Commission, I think it was my understanding that there would have there was going to be some kind of memo that would communicate with the CPA committee about how we discussed these projects that came before us. So, um I'm just kind of a little bit concerned that the kind of processes of decision making aren't quite on the level at the moment. Um, and I'm not commenting necessarily on the finance aspects of this consideration, but I am, as far as I was concerned, we had rolled in all the things that were going to

happen with the library project in terms of the exterior wood trim and the interior woodwork. and we discussed those extensively as a commission. So I'm just a little confused by them coming forward again and I know there are a lot of issues around supplanting um and I don't want to comment on that. I just want to make it plain that this doesn't feel right to me. Thank you.

Thank you HDI. Um, I would like to move to Evan Naymith on Zoom. Um, and to just let you know that we are in the public forum on the CPA appropriations regarding the Jones Library project. Um, if that's what you wish to speak to, please unmute, state your name, and make your comment. I'm going to lower my hand then. I want to talk about revenue.

Okay. Thank you. We will move to general public comment shortly. Okay. Uh, seeing that there are no uh more participants that wish to make a public comment, do we need to have finance just vote to adjurnn, please? And and the finance committee can be adjourned as well if if we want to vote with Joe Jane, please. Okay, I will do first the finance committee. Uh, Joe Jane. Yes. Lynn Griezmer. I just Perfect. I

Sam I I'm an I too, Kathy. I'm over here. Oh, Anna's Anna's on the screen. Anna, I looking around the room. Thank you. No problem. Oh, and Kathy is voting for turn. Sorry, I had to look lots of ways to find five people. Uh, thank you Kathy. Um, and I would like to make a motion to adjourn the public forum. Second. Okay. Thank you, Mandy. Uh, Councelor Breick, yes. Councelor Connor Martin, yes. Andy Churchill, yes. Anna Delvin Gothier, hi. Lynn Gmer, hi. Mandy Joe Hani, hi.

Counselor Lord, I Sam Mloud. Hi, Pam Rooney. Yes, councelor Ryan. Hi, Kathy Shonne. Yes, Jennifer Ta. Yes, I'm getting back on the internet. Thank you. And councelor Walker is a yes. Um, and with that, the public forum is adjourned.

Thank you, Vice President Walker. Um, as our agenda said, and as Vice President Walker said at the beginning, we will now move into the regular meeting of the town council. So, um, at 7 PM, seeing a presence of a quorum, I am calling the regular meeting of the town council on April 6th, 2026 to order. Um, again, please be advised that the meeting is being held in person and that remote access option for members of the public is provided as a courtesy only. Um, in the event of technology issues with the remote connection, the meeting will continue in person as scheduled as long as there is a presence of the council. a quorum of the council present in the town room or through technological means. The meeting is again still being recorded and is accessible in real time via Zoom phone and as a live broadcast on Ammeris Media and Channel 9. We have already gone through the hear and be heard so I will not repeat that at this time. Um announcements are that we have our next council meeting is April 27th. Um, on May 4th, we will receive the town manager's budget. And on May 11th, it is not on that announcements list yet, is the planned public hearing of the finance committee on the manager's budget. Um, so that will hit the the announcements lists and the committee lists soon, but the plan is to hold that public hearing, the finance committee to hold the public hearing on May 11th, which is a Monday evening. Um there are no hearings this evening and so we will move into general public comment at this time. Anyone wishing to make general public comment who is attending remotely, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. If you are present in the town room and have not signed up with the council clerk, please do so

now. Residents are welcome to make public comments on matters within the jurisdiction of the town council. The council will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during general public comment. Public comments are not reflective of the opinions of the town council. The first amendment broadly protects individuals rights to address the government to speak and to express themselves, including their right to say hateful and offensive things. I am generally unable to shut those commenters down under the first amendment to the US Constitution unless their level of speech falls within an exception articulated by the courts such as fighting words, true threats to a particular individual, harassment of a particular individual, or incitement of imminent lawless activity. If a question exists as to whether a particular speaker is engaging in unprotected speech, I must defer to the principle of freedom of speech. There are four hands raised on Zoom of people who wish to make public comment. How many people in the town room have signed up for public comment?

Eight. Eight. So, we've got 12. Um, each commenter will have two minutes, two and a half minutes to make their public comment. Um, we'll go with two and a half minutes. Um, who is we're going to alternate. So, we'll start in the town room. Athena Karen Drum. Kieran, please come up. Come on up. Have a seat. Make sure the the mic should be on. Just speak into the mic. If you can state your name and then make your comment, Kieran.

My name is Kieran Drummond and I am a third grader at Crocker Farm. I want to talk about something that doesn't feel fair in our town. One school will have twice as many students but only one teacher for PE, art, music, library, and technology. The other school have fewer students but the same number of teachers. That means students at the new school will get less attention even though there are more of them. That doesn't seem right. I'm also worried about the teachers. Having one teacher for so many students will be really hard. They will have to double the work and help twice as many kids. That could make them tired and stressed. And it might be harder for them to give each student the help they need. I believe all students in our town should have the same chances to learn no matter which school they go to. Please think about how this will affect the students at the new school. and how the schools need uh need more money to keep all the teachers. Thank you for listening.

Thank you so much for coming tonight, Kieran. Evan Naymith, please unmute yourself, state your name and where you live and make your comment.

Oh god, that's going to be hard to follow. Okay, Evan Naymith, uh I'm District 5. Um all right, I'm going to skip the first part then. All right, I want to talk about the letter obviously to Chancellor Reyes. You guys know I like housing. Um, I want to talk about like how it got written, right? When the indie crowd writes letters like this, they start with a conclusion and then they work backward. The facts they manufacture are easily disproven with a quick Google search. For example, the letter claims that UMass lags in its duty to create onampus housing. Well, according to actual facts, UMass does not lag at all. It's a regional leader in onampus housing. UMass has more onampus housing both in sheer number and as a proportion than UMass Lowel, URI, UVM, UNH, and the University of Maine. Those are all big schools located in small towns. So, we're comparing apples to apples and UMass leads them all. So, unless all regional colleges are Lagards, then neither is UMass. But the indie crowd doesn't want you to know that. So instead of linking to a truthful source, they just type out sentences that would support their conclusions and hope you don't fact check. When you point this out, they permanently block your account. There's a reason why these indie writers are not members of the planning board or the finance committee. They are not qualified. Their past applications have been rightfully rejected and their proposals should be subject to extraordinary scrutiny because these people are not acting in good faith. Tomorrow, I have a piece in the Amoris Current that highlights many of the glaring misrepresentations in this letter. I invite those of you who signed it to defend your work. A vibes-based housing policy is a true threat to our fiscal and progressive future here in Ammerst, and we deserve better. The best time for you guys to change your minds was yesterday, but the second best time is now. Please do the right thing and

listen to actual evidence. Thank you. Thank you for coming tonight, Evan Athena. Georgia Lerman. Georgia, please come on up. Have a seat. State your name, where you live, and make your comment.

Good evening. My name is Georgia Letterman. I am a general education teacher at Wildwood Elementary. I'm a resident of East Hampton, but I'm here to speak um on behalf of the school. So, I'm I'm speaking to express my deep concern around cuts being made to intervention positions and specials positions. Um, I'm also here to speak in support of a budget scenario put forth by the school committee, budget scenario two. Um, I'll start by addressing intervention. As a GenEd teacher, my teaching is extensively more effective because of intervention. Um, while differentiation is the cornerstone of good teaching, uh, meeting the needs of every child becomes impossible when there are significant gaps. So while I like most teachers make an effort to make our lessons approachable and meaningful for every student in our class, it is impossible to meet the expansive needs especially when there are gaps of multiple grade levels. Um I am hoping that we can take the needs of all students into consideration as we choose a budget. Um the data for intervention proves that it works. Um admittedly it already does not feel like there are enough intervention teachers at the school especially in math. Um so please consider uh these cuts to intervention positions in an effort to provide an equitable chance at success to all students. Um next I'd like to discuss the cuts being made around specials positions. Um, ditto to everything Kieran said. Um, that from the moment I began teaching at Wildwood, I felt a sense of inclusion and creativity that I haven't felt at any other schools. Um, and each special is adapted for students um, in the special ed programs in a way that truly allows

them to participate meaningfully and engage. Um the school is also bursting with vibrance because the library teacher is able to select specific books for specific students. Um our art teacher is able to design special events like our Lunar New Year celebration which makes different students feel seen and heard. Um our technology teacher is able to collaborate with classroom teachers. So I'm deeply concerned that with the cuts being made, the schools will become less inclusive um and less vibrant. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you so much for coming tonight, Georgia. Um, John Bonafas, please unmute yourself, state your name and where you live, and make your comment.

Good evening, everyone. My name is John Bonifas. I'm an Amoris resident living in district 1. I want to start by thanking the town council members who unanimously voted at the February 23rd council meeting to pass the town of Ammeris resolution calling for federal immigration agents to be held accountable for violations of Massachusetts criminal law. That resolution included language calling on the Ammeris town manager to work quote with other Massachusetts local officials, including police and other public safety and municipal leaders in consultation with legal partners to swiftly develop and implement protocols for protecting the safety and civil rights of all local residents in the event of a federal immigration enforcement action. The resolution also included language that quote there is a wellestablished history of state prosecutions of federal agents and troops who commit crimes in violation of state law and included a footnote citing key court president which is part of that wellestablished history. On March 20 March 3rd 2026 in response to that resolution the town manager issued an executive order. That three and a half page executive order included only one line addressing how the Ammeris Police Department should respond to calls related to ICE actions in the town of Ammeris. That line on page two of the order states as follows. Quote, "When responding to calls related to ICE activity, the APD shall take reasonable steps to verify that the individuals on scene are federal agents and gather relevant information. Completely missing from the executive order is any language ensuring that the Ammeris Police Department will enforce state criminal law against federal agents if they are engaged in unlawful actions. Contrast that order with what the mayor of

Denver, Colorado has recently issued on February 26, 2026. In announcing that order at a press conference, he said it was designed to quote, "protect Denver rightites from unconstitutional and dangerous federal operations." And he said, "To protect Denver, if we see any ICE officer using excessive force against a Denver resident, we will step in to detain that officer and remove them from the situation. We hold our own officers to that standard and we will hold any ICE agent to the same." I urge this town council to call on the town manager to revise his executive order in the same spirit as what the Denver mayor has issued and in and consistent with the exe with the town council resolution that you pass. Thank you.

Thank you, John, for coming tonight. Athena Sarah Johnson.

Sarah, please come on up. Have a seat. State your name and where you live and make your comment. Hello, my name is Sarah Johnson. I have lived in district 3 for six years. Now have two kids at Crocker Farm Elementary. I am also a first grade teacher at Wildwood Elementary. I want to urge the town council and town manager to consider giving Amoris public schools more funding like the school committee has recommended. As you know, with the merging of Wildwood and Fort River, the plan will be to cut some of the specialist teachers. To put things into perspective, in the budget process update shared with me on February 24th, it estimated that 553 students would be enrolled at Amethyst Brook in the first year it is open. Crocker Farm has an estimated enrollment of 245 students for the same year. And the Chestnut Street School is estimated to have 145. So an art teacher at Amethyst Brook will be responsible for educating 553 students and a Crocker Farm art teacher will be educating 390 since they will also be going to Cheset Street. They will have the same amount of student facing time as this year, but knowing the names and needs of 553 students is a massive cognitive load. In the same budget update, it was estimated that 27% of students access special education services in our district. 27% of 553 is 149 students accessing specialized services, which means one specialist will be responsible for being familiar with 149 IEPs or 504s. And most of those students will need accommodations across settings. 27% of the 390 students expected to be enrolled at Crocker Farm and Chestnut Street School is 105. It will not be possible for students to have the same specials experience as they have had in the past with their teachers stretched so thin. If we move on from numbers and think about the people that are potentially getting cut, they are the people that create consistency in a school across years. Students have the same art, PE, library, technology, and music teachers year after year. These people are some of the pillars of our community and I

can't imagine the loss that some of our students will feel knowing that their safe person is no longer there. I also want to bring attention that with this amount of students and less specialists teachers, adaptive specials will not be possible for ILC students and others. I currently have two students with physical disabilities that access adaptive PE. They feel successful and seen in that space. It has grown their confidence and I can't imagine a time that we can't make that available for them. This town seems to never have enough money for schools and yet always ends up with a surplus. I think it is shameful to be happy about a surplus when it causes harm to our children. I hope you'll do the right thing for our students. Thank you. Thank you for coming tonight, Sarah. Darcy Jameson, please unmute yourself, state your name and where you live, and make your comment.

Hi there, uh Darcy Jameson um from Boston, Massachusetts. Um I'm Darcy. Hello town councelor members and members of Ammerst. I'm Darcy Jameson, vice president of development with Beacon Communities Development. Beacon is a Bostonbased affordable housing developer and property manager. I know many of you are familiar with Beacon, but for those of you who are not, we own and manage Rolling Green. And in response to the town's goals to create a new town center in North Ammerst, including more retail and housing, we developed North Square at the Mill District. To further support the town's affordable housing creation goals and expressed need for both senior housing and housing for individuals and families, Beacon is proposing 140 unit affordable apartment community on about 14 acres at 246 Montigue Road. Over the last few months, we've had conversations with people in the community and various town departments and boards to share the plan and hear from the community. We're hosting a community meeting next Monday, April 13th, from 5:00 p. p.m. to 700 p.m. at the Survival Center located at 1:38 Sunderland Road in North Ammerst. Doors will open at 5:00 p.m. and our presentation will start at 5:30. The town's director of planning and economic development, Jeff Bag, will also be present to share some general information about infrastructure and other planning in North Ammerst. The goal of the meeting is for Beacon to share an update on our proposed project and to continue to communicate with the community. We look forward to seeing you on Monday. Thank you.

Thank you, Darcy, for coming tonight. Laura Ivonne Steinman. Laura, please come on up. State your name and where you live and make your comment.

Good evening. I'm Laura Ivonne Steinman. She they I um am here from Florence, Massachusetts, and I'm the art teacher and LGBTQIA art club facilitator at Wildwood Elementary School. I'm here tonight to advocate that the town of Ammerst votes to pass FY27 scenario 2 budget that the Ammerst school committee voted on and passed. Thank you to the school committee for listening to the teachers um who work with students every day. There are two um reasons to pass scenario 2 tonight that I'll share with you. There of course are many more, but I'll just share two. Um I did some math and budget scenario 2 comes out to about $3 a day per student to restore the specialist intervention um teachers. That's about a cup of coffee. Um, and then the second reason I'll share is that um, I personally will be cut if this budget isn't restored. I share this reason um, because of my personal experience. I am someone who benefited from intervention services at an elementary level as a kid in the early 80s. My places of success were in small groups, were in the art studio, and when teachers took the time to know who I was as a person and my personal needs. This made the world of difference to me as a young child and to me as a teacher today. today. Having the time in an art

schedule to have an art studio that opens its space to where students can be in a space that they are heard and create hard art when they're having a hard time is amazing. They can express themselves, be successful, and have positive self-esteem. This is the time and a space for our most vulnerable students. Don't we want that for all of our students to be successful? To be successful and of course to feel positive about themselves. To do this, we must invest and investing is a risk and I would say that it's a very important risk that we should take and that it will benefit our whole society. Thanks for listening.

Thank you for coming tonight, Laura. Uh, Jose, please unmute yourself, state your name and where you live, and make your comment.

Good evening, Jose, District 1. After the town's resolution to hold federal agents accountable for violations of Massachusetts criminal law, our town manager issued an executive order, which raised many questions for me that I'd like to be able to ask of our police chief. The resolution called upon the manager to develop and implement protocols for protecting the safety and civil rights of all local residents in the event of a federal immigration enforcement action. This is where the executive order falls short. It rightly states that municipal employees will not participate in an operation led by a federal agency solely for enforcement of federal civil civil immigration laws. However, it lists exceptions when requested to assist with support services deemed necessary to ensure officer safety, public safety. But the ICE agent who killed Renee Good said he felt his safety was in danger. What would the APD do in such a situation? Another exception to prevent a breach of the peace during a federal operation, including requests to establish traffic perimeters, control traffic, or provide police escort, but an agent's perception of a breach of the peace is subjective. Would the APD just take the agents word for it? Third, in response to an arrest warrant or other state or federal judicial order, when would a judicial warrant allow the APD to cooperate? The order stipulates that APD does not inquire with anyone regarding their immigration status. But couldn't APD ask ICE agents to ask for a resident status? I have a number of questions like this and time is short, but I'll I think I can finish in time. Um, no municipal employee shall obstruct, interfere, prohibit, or otherwise prevent the

federal enforcement of immigration laws. Um, but what if the federal government prevents local officials from carrying out their own investigation? The order states if someone is injured in the carrying out of an ICE action, the town will call for emergency medical services. But would the APD prevent a resident from being injured in the first place? In closing, the order keeps Amherst safe from litigation, but I feel that it doesn't keep Amherst residents safe in our own town. Therefore, I'm asking the town council to arrange for a special meeting with the Amherst police chief. Thank you. Thank you, Josea, for coming tonight.

Chris Hurland. Chris, please come on up, state your name and where you live and make your comment.

Hi. Uh, my name is Chris Hurland. I'm a 25-y year veteran uh of the English department at Amoris Regional High School, and I'm currently the president of the APA. Uh so I'm speaking here on behalf of the the schools and um my colleagues that wonderful young man back there I think brought a lot of attention to to various details and the way that things are being shifted and funding and things like that. What I wanted to mention um was the way things have really changed in the 25 years uh that I've been there. And I could talk here all night in in that regard. I I remember writing Caleb's recommendation. Antique Churchill called me at home because Caleb's wreck I think maybe was a little late or I think it was going to be late like in a couple of days. But anyway, yeah. So, but back then um and I'm going off numbers from a Gazette article back in December, but Emmeris was spending upwards of maybe 53 54% of its budget on education and that was also right around the time when we had trimesters. Uh the students had amazing opportunities uh going through the high school and they still do, but it's not the same. And um it was also the last time that the Boston Globe uh listed us as among the top 10 high schools in in the uh in the state. Uh that was right around 2009 or so. I I can't remember exactly. Um we were the only ones too. I don't I think we were the only ones say like west of 495 who are in that list. We're not on that list anymore. um because we've uh gone from about 54% of the town budget being allocated for education to what now in what they listed at uh FY25, I think it was 47.

And I'm going off numbers from the Gazette. Um that's a that's substantial. True. In the same amount of time at the high school, I've seen the population there go from 1400 students down to I think we're about 800. We're in the 800s now. Um, however, kids are a lot more expensive to educate and uh, what is being brought up by my colleagues in regards to cutting things like interventionists and specialists are only going to make things worse because by the time then if if they haven't had interventionists and specialists helping them catch up to where they are with their the the achievement gap just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and by the time they're in high school, it's insurmountable and the kids will graduate and never having caught up and and they never will. Um the budget is your is a a document of priorities and in 25 years I've watched the priorities of am which always prided itself on education with the book on the thing and the farmland and all that stuff and the budget just doesn't do that anymore. You you can't pride yourselves in that way and it's too bad.

Please finish up Chris. Yeah. So that's like I said 7% increase and and again that or decrease rather just in percentage not an actual n like I said it every single year it gets worse and worse. Thank you. Thank you for coming tonight Chris. Kathleen please unmute yourself state your name and where you live and make your comment.

Hi my name is Kathleen Traphagen. I live in district 2 in Ammerst. Um, first of all, thank you all of you for running, for being on town council, for doing what you're doing, for spending your time. Um, appreciate it. And also everybody who's there in person. Um, three quick things. I wanted to talk about that executive order uh that the town manager put out about the um about the ICE agents and what would happen if they showed up into town um or showed up again into town. Um, first of all, thank you all of you for for voting for that. I'm just very confused as to how he could develop and publish an executive order that is so woefully inadequate compared to what the what you passed actually says. So I guess that's where I hardly understand the process that he has the power to just really ignore what it is that you all made clear you wanted. Um and I hope that you are going to take some action to actually make sure that what you wanted gets implemented in this town. Um I think the other comments are uh had a lot of detail about that. So I will just uh refer to them and thank them for having that comment. But um I'd also like to people were talking about the specials and I just wanted to say that I ran for school committee I don't know how many years ago it is now. my children were young and now, you know, they're they're not. Um, and I ran on the issue of specials because at the time the superintendent and the assistant superintendent had an idea that they were going to not have full-time specials in the elementary schools anymore, but instead figure out how many classes needed to be taught across all the elementary schools and then just hire part-time people who would shuttle around and teach only classes and have no planning time or

lunchtime to eat eat lunch with to children etc. And that was just so against pedagogy and so against the basic idea of what engages children and also what engages families and the idea that that those special people know your children through all the years that they're there and they actually know your whole family unit and they are the core and the anchor of so much engagement for the young people. And we have now issues with chronic absenteeism. We have issues with students being disengaged and this is just all coming back again. It is so depressing. I understand that we have money issues, but not here. Not this. Let's just not do the same thing again. And I'll wrap there by just saying that when I ran the school committee at the time passed it, did the thing with the specials that the superintendent and the assistant superintendent wanted, it was basically a disaster. and they reversed themselves shortly thereafter. So, let's just not make that mistake again. Thank you again for your time.

Thank you for coming tonight, Kathleen. Laura Jane Hunter. Laura Jane, please come on up, state your name and where you live and make your comment.

Hi everyone. When I practiced, I'm a little closer to three minutes. Can I have a little extra? Yes, I've been allowing people to go to three.

Thank you. Um, Laura Jane Hunter, she her pronouns. I'm here as a resident of Ammerst. Um, I am on the school committee, but I'm not here as a school committee member. I'm here as a constituent. D2. As the president of the town council, you have arbitrarily and capriciously decided that you must see all motions in advance. That is not how democracy works. This is not your town council. It belongs to the people who elected you. This is not your money. This is taxpayer money. This is not your thief. This is the people's government. What I have seen since you were elected president is an arbitrary and capriccious use of power. You know something is wrong because you keep needing to repeatedly consult with your legal team. That's a waste of my money as a taxpayer. That's money that should go to the schools. I demand that you do your duty as an elected official. As president of town council, it is your responsibility to make space for all voices. By stifling free speech, preventing motions, and closing meetings without listening to the constituents, you are showing fear, not power. What are you afraid of? This is not your town. It's our town. You have ti tried to silence the DPW workers who are asking for fair wages. You have tried to silence the town counselors who are working for the constituents who elected them and who are trying to breathe life into a stale system. You might be a democratically elected official, but you are allowing the tentacles of totalitarianism and fascism to creep into our town. Local politics is where fundamental change is possible. It is arguably the most important place to protect constitutional rights that this government is trying to erode. I ask you

to do your job. Stop trying to hold power and learn to share power. Stop trying to silence and learn to listen. This whole body has the rights to make motions and they don't need your permission. It is anti-democratic to prevent motions. As president, you should not censor them. You should never take things off the agenda because they don't align with your agenda. If you are afraid of what the other counselors are bringing forward, then it's time for self-reflection. Interrogate your own decision-m instead of reactivity. Be open. We are desperately trying to protect the Constitution and this body is a critical part of that protection. Do your duty. Stop brandishing unearned power and share power. I'm going to remind you, you don't get to vote motions in advance. Every single counselor here, every single one of you has the right to bring forward motions without fear of being silenced. I call on all the counselors here to stand firm to protect your rights and the rights of your constituents. Make motions, put items on the agenda. Do not let the country's dissent into fascism corrupt our local democracy. Also, please fully fund the budget that the school committee has presented to you. It is based on putting our the students first which is the charge of the school committee. Thank you to all of you for your service but especially to those of you who are not afraid to advocate for your constituents and fight back against the erosion of our rights.

Thank you for coming tonight. Laura Jane Vince O' Conor.

Vince please come on up. State your name and where you live and make your comment. Is it possible for whoever controls this to put the time in the lower leftand corner so that they're in the field of vision certainly mine of people who are speaking here rather than having to look up the corner because it's really like difficult. ult to both speak and uh and watch the talk. Thank you. So Vincent Okconor, 175 Summer Street, apartment 12. Um the way to increase the vibrancy and use of any part of a town is to increase the numbers of 12 month a year residents. And who are the most likely 12 month a year residents? Families with children or families who move here with children or plans to have children. What in the past has attracted most families to live here, our public schools? We are about to open a new elementary school. What is the best way to herald that school's opening? by voting the budgets voted by the two elected at large school committees. Don't wait till June. Vote this month to put the budgets by the school committees

in the manager's uh budget. When the manager tells you in his May 1st budget about about this year's budget surpluses will be, then increase those budgets with a portion of the free cash that will become available as compensation for allowing the manager to make school budget cuts during the past five years by falsely claiming we have no money when every July or August our surpluses have uh between five and $7 million annually. So uh so don't listen to the we don't have a money because every year five to7 million dollars have been found after July 1st and the and any competent manager knows how much the surplus is going to be on May 1st and this council ought to demand that they get accurate stuff rather than claims that have turned out to be v false every single year. So I I'm an I'm the oldest of eight children. Three of those children had RH factor handicaps. One of those children worked for the federal government for 20 years. My sister, my only sister, and she had a top secret security clearance. The five white male doctors once came to my family's home and escaped with their lives after suggesting that my mother and father put the two of the children, including my sister, in a notorious warehouse for kids with disabilities. Do not turn these schools that the

taxpayers have voted for and tried to fund into warehouses for kids with disabilities by by allowing the manager to interfere with the the considered judgment of our atlarge elected school committees. When he puts them in the budget, please wrap up. He is exercising as one unelected person an authority that you should not allow him to exercise. Thank you for coming tonight, Vincent. Andy Anderson. Andy, please come on up. State your name and where you live and make your comment.

Good evening. I am Andy Anderson. I live in District 5. I'm here once again to encourage movement on cameras implementation of rank choice voting. As I mentioned many times before here, rank choice voting is included in the town charter adopted in 2019 with the expectation that it would be implemented in short order. The entire structure of the town council with multi-member districts and no preliminary elections was designed for use with RCV. But we have been stamied by the decision to seek approval of these details by the state legislature and now in its third session since then it just last month it has been kicked to the curb once again. It should be abundantly clear that they have no intention of approving this. We must therefore take another route. I was really disappointed to see that the recent charter review committee also washed its hands of this making no specific recommendation for how to proceed. But we could consider a charter amendment which would add the RCD language directly to the charter. We can take this into our own hands with a three-step process. First, you must pass with a two-th3 vote the detailed language that's already prepared for you by the rank choice voting commission per the Massachusetts constitution article uh was like 84 89 section 4. Second, the proposed amendment must be reviewed and approved by the state attorney general as required by state law chapter 43b section 10. Third, it must be put before the voters for a majority decision, which could happen this November. We don't delay for too long. If there's any concern whether a charter amendment isn't an allowed path, we would know for sure if the attorney general approves it. I therefore urge you to take this path. Otherwise, I see no possible other route except another charter commission. A difficult but last resort. Thank you

for your consideration. Thank you for coming tonight, Andy. Athena Kristen Riley.

Kristen, please come on up. State your name and where you live and make your comment. Hello, my name is Kristen Riley. I'm from Beluretown. I have been teaching in Ammeris for 28 years. I work at Wildwood Elementary School. I am a special education teacher. I'm here because I'm really hoping that with whatever power you all do have that you will do your best to fund our schools. I am, as other people have talked about, I'm very concerned about the children. I'm concerned about what I've seen happen over these 28 years with the funding. I'm concerned that as a special ed teacher, I look at my colleagues and our case loads are kind of like at our limit and that's going to change and we're going to increase our our case loads. And for me, it isn't really about how much work I have to do. It's about how effective I can be. It's not it's like, okay, we're all sitting here doing our best, but as the groups get bigger with kids with with significant needs, it gets really hard for them to be able to learn in the same when we can keep our groups smaller. Um, so I'm really hoping that you can help provide whatever funding or approve whatever funding so that we can have more specialists teachers, more intervention teachers, and hopefully um manage to keep as many special ed teachers as we can. I really want to see the best the future. I really only have two full years before I retire. Um, my whole reason for being here is really about the future of our children. This is the future of your community and I care about them. I love them. Thank you for listening.

Thank you for coming tonight, Kristen Athena. There are no other names on the register.

Thank you. And there are no other hands raised. So, at this point, we're going to close general public comment um and move to the consent agenda. The following items were selected because they were considered to be routine and it was reasonable to expect that they would pass with no controversy. To remove an item from the consent agenda for discussion later in the meeting, ask that it be removed when I list the consent agenda items. The request to remove an item from the consent agenda does not require a second. So the motion is if nothing is removed to move the following items and the printed motions there and approve those items as a single unit. 8 A, referral of the Ammerst Pelum Regional School District borrowing order, $497,000 for building repairs and equipment. 8B, approval of University Drive, amendment of restriction for parcels 13B, 18, 27, 28, and 54. Request 9 A1:2, approval of town manager appointments for the Community Safety and Social Justice Committee and the Council on Aging. 11 A and B approval of minutes for March 23rd, 2026 public forum on supplemental budget appropriations and regular meeting and March 30th, 2026 special meeting. Are there any requests to remove any remove any items? Seeing no requests, is there a second to the motion?

Second, Ernie. Seeing no discussion, the motion on the floor is to approve the consent agenda. Um, we will start with councelor Keno Martin. Yes. Andy Churchill, yes. Anna Deon Gothier, I. Lyn Greimer, I. Mandy Johanni is an I. Councelor Lord. I. Sam Mlab. I. Pam Rooney. Yes. Councelor Ryan. Hi. Kathy Shane. Yes. Jennifer Tub. Yes. Councelor Walker. Yes. Councelor Brevik. Yes.

The motion is approved unanimously. We have no resolutions and proclamations. We have no presentations and discussions. The um borrowing order was just approved on consent and the University Drive amendment of restriction was just approved on consent. Um, and that moves us to charter section 2.8, item C, 8C, charter section 2.8, request for information, water and sewer revenues and expenditures. Um, we will start. I'm going to recognize councelor Walker. Would you like to make the motion to put it on the floor and then we'll have discussion if there's a second?

Uh, yes. Thank you. Uh my motion is to request that the town manager provide the following information with the proposed FY27 water and sewer rates. A current and projected revenues and expenditures within the water and sewer enterprise funds. An assessment of whether current rate structures adequately support system maintenance and infrastructure needs. Workforce sustainability within enterprise funded operations, including recruitment and retention challenges within the Department of Public Works, long-term financial stability of the enterprise funds. Consideration of the relationship between enterprise fund capacity and broader Department of Public Works staffing challenges. Considerations of whether adjustments to water and sewer rates or alternative structural changes may be warranted to ensure the enterprise funds are adequately resourced in an equitable and sustainable manner.

Is there a second? Second. Jennifer Tobs. The motion is on the floor um to request the town manager provide certain information. Uh councelor Walker, would you like to speak to it?

Um yes. So, I did provide a memo with my motion in the packet and hopefully you all have had some time to read it. I think that everything that I would like to say is provided there in the packet and we did talk about at our special meeting um regarding some of the concerns we've heard from DPW workers and this is my attempt to look at what we can do um in the upcoming budget uh cycle to see if there's anything any changes that we can make to better support our DPW. Um, I'd be happy to take any questions because I think most of the info is in the memo. Is there any discussion? I see Lynn Greimemer. I'd like to make an amendment to the motion.

You can make your motion. Um, probably be best to put the motion up on the screen. I apologize uh for not contacting you in advance. Um, I'd just like to uh add or do the following after enterprise fund capacity, comma, um, and then strike the and this is in the third bullet point. Yes. No, it's on this is in the the third main bullet point.

Yeah. Hold on. Yes. Maybe maybe what we're really going to do is um I I'm sorry. I looked at the motion here. Um if you'd like to go ahead, I'll look at this. Okay. Um we will pause while she figures out her motion. Um is there any other discussion? Um Kathy

uh um I in looking at this Elicia I was also looking at the detail that we get in the budget book um which is more than we typically get in the rate in the rate discussion. So in the budget book we have line items for payroll for benefits for debt service and others. So you can really see each of those and how they've changed over the time. Are you asking in this, it's a question. Are you asking that that level of detail also be presented when we're talking about rate increases? Councelor Walker.

Yes. And please tell me if this is not answering your question, but I'm just asking for provided to us, but with a lens of supporting DPW workers essentially. Um, so this is just some specific things that I think we can look at, which we again might have already been receiving when we're looking at the water and sewer rates in our regular budget cycle, but we're looking at it with a different lens and we're providing some analysis as to whether or not we think certain changes could better support the DPW workers. Does that answer your question, Kathy? Because I think it's more about the analysis piece. I'm not sure uh what analysis in in terms of you know I'll give you some examples are they working with outdated equipment that makes everything take twice as long would be a kind of analysis that affects the work but on the other hand are are we in at risk of system failure which is what we often get in the rate structure on what which also affects the workers so I'm not sure quite what analysis you Are they is staffing adequate? Is that what you're trying to get at with this? Is staffing adequate within the enterprise funds? I'm just not quite sure what additional information this is asking for. I know what the larger focus is, but uh obtainable information is what I'm trying to understand. Councelor Walker.

Yeah. Sorry. Is there something specific in this request that you're referring to? Okay. In if I'd go to the second bullet, an assessment of whether the current rate tractor adequately support underneath it, what we typically get is here are our revenues and here's what we're going to be spending. And on the workforce side, we get is what's the total cost of our workforce. So are you asking bullet two are we short staff you know so you know we're we're getting a staffing number in it are you asking whether this we're short staffed in bullet too so I'm not sure what what additional information because we're getting um a payroll plus a benefit number and an FTE number that's allocated to each of the visas. Then the the last one, long-term financial stability. A lot of it is driven by the infrastructure costs, not the wage costs. So that one I think we're already getting. So I'm looking at what information are you looking for that we don't get in enough asking it with enough specificity that you get what you're looking for.

Councelor Walker.

Thank you Kathy. Yes. So I think when we heard from the DPW, we heard a number of concerns about staffing. I don't think I am equipped to say whether or not we are fully staffed or need more staff, but I think that's what I'm looking at. Particularly when we heard about the water treatment facility and sort of who is um qualified to be doing that work and how the retention what the retention has been like there and so what that will mean for us moving forward. um that is something that I don't know and the numbers don't tell us that without a narrative and so I think that's where the analysis piece comes in is that we may be able to figure these things out by looking at some of these numbers but we cannot figure them out if we don't talk about them through this specific lens in terms of how will these changes impact these things in the DPW

and and so I give you an example we heard that we're losing licensed operators and we're having to retrain them when they're working with expensive. So, you're specifically focused on some of those issues. I'm just what whatever we send to the town manager, the more the record can show what kinds of things we're looking for, the more likely we are to get them. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that makes sense to me. And I think that I had my original plan was to propose this motion during our special meeting where we were specifically talking about a lot of those things. Um, a lot of the concerns that came directly from the DPW, we do have record of. I don't just have them pulled up right in front of me at this moment to be more specific, but I think again, we heard about retention, we heard about training, we heard about um actually operating these facilities, many different things. And I'm wondering if changing the uh structure for our water and sewer fees is something that could improve that. Um, if not, that's also worded in here. Whether or not uh an alternative or an adjustment may be warranted and may and that might improve the situation, I think is something I'm looking for. Um, and again, for the long-term stability because we've talked about seeing these challenges continue over many years. So, I think if we just continue doing the same thing, we will continue to see these challenges. So, again, we're looking at this as one way that we might be able to start to mitigate some of the concerns of DPW workers. I don't consider this to be uh something that's going to be an end- all beall. All of the problems are solved. I don't even know if this will bring a resolution, but I think we need to start looking at it this way if we're going to make changes.

Thank you. Um Lynn,

first of all, I'm not going to make amendment, but I do want to clarify the following that under the an assessment of whether current rate structures adequately support system maintenance and infrastructure needs. There's two issues. One is we already have a study going on that will be looking at our sewer plant and that is a huge infrastructure need that will have major cost implications. And so it I want to make sure we understand that in there that is included. And the other thing I want to make sure we understand is in there, and that is that we have a we have now been presented with the basic basics, if you will, of a five-year road and sidewalk plan. But every time you go in and you redo a road, if you've got to replace the sewer and the water underneath the road, that is a huge expense. And if you're going to tear up a road, the time to replace the 100y old water and sewer systems is at that time. Is that included in there? Otherwise, thank you very much for being very thorough. I just wanted to make sure that if we're going to look at this, we look at it with all of those other structural issues. I have one other piece too, and that is is there a possibility of looking at differential rates for high users? In other words, high users have to pay more.

Thank you. Do you have any response, Councelor Walker?

Um, yes, Lynn. So, under the second bullet, system maintenance and infrastructure needs, my thoughts was that's where that would be included. But maybe Paul, just in the event that this motion does pass, take note that uh specifically taking into consideration the five-year road and sidewalk plan and sort of anything that may happen there in regards to water and sewer um would be helpful. And I think again to the differential rates for high users is in my opinion would be covered under the last bullet um which was structural changes. But if you would like more specificity. Okay.

I believe that the record stands on the

Jennifer. Um yes. I guess my when the question was what were we hope well what were each of us hoping would come out of the or what kind of information would we like to get back? This is very basic, but I would also be interested in knowing since one of the issues is how Ammerst pay scale compares to other towns that if we wanted to bring salaries up, would changing the water and sewer rates help to do that? Because I know sometimes you think, well, if we save money here, we can spend it there, and then we're told, no, that's not how that works. But would there be or could there be a relationship between increasing water and sewer rates and the compensation? You know, because we we say we want to raise the compensation, where's the money going to come from? Could this be one of the places it comes from?

Do you have would you like to respond? Um, I don't have an answer to that. Yes. Yeah. Um, and I hope that that's something the town manager will also bring to us with this request. And maybe it's mentioned somewhere in my memo, but I know that it's slightly more complicated because not all of the staff for the DPW are uh not all of their salaries come from the enterprise fund. So, it might be not an equitable uh resolution, which is why I said adequately resource in an equitable and sustainable manner. Um, because I want to make sure it will be applicable to all of the DPW workers. But I'm just hoping for some more information on what that would look like. Councelor Kennel Martin.

Hi. Um I just wanted to um speak briefly just in favor of um the motion, the request for information. Um I do think this is going to give us a lot of valuable information about this one particular action item that came out of our special meeting. So, um, and really knowing, um, you know, how we how potentially changing the water and sewer rates could impact our ability to run the DPW, um, fully staffed and having retaining our staff and also doing something about the condition of the the public works infrastructure in town would be extremely valuable. And I just wanted to, um, thank Councelor Walker for putting this together.

Thank you, Hendy Churchill. Yeah, I see this as a as a resource um inquiry really and that or at least that's how I read it that some of our DPW workers, the ones dealing with water and sewer are um could potentially uh be paid through water and sewer enterprise fund uh funds. And so does that then have uh the the effect of it of growing the pie for wages more broadly? So I guess that would be what I would be I I would try to keep it as simple as possible. Uh, basically, is there a way that water and sewer rates could be a source of additional revenue that would enable us to expand the pie of revenues in an equitable way to to to deal with the conflicting or the, you know, the the demands on our resources that are that are limited? Does this expand the pie in some way that would be legitimate?

Paul,

uh, yes. So, I don't want to have false expectations. So when we raise all the water and sewer employees get paid out of the water and sewer enterprise funds. That's where all the money comes from. That's where the you know and so if there there other things that those funds pay for as well. Um you can't take money from water and sewer and put it into a different pot unless you're getting services from that. You know you might be hiring 10% of a um backho operator to work on water and sewer stuff. So we we we can justify that. So it has to be justified. the water and sewer enterprise fund has to be self- sustaining and we we would like and what you're saying is like let's make sure we're putting everything we can into the water and sewer rates so we can because that's something that's we can in the council can increase um so that's how I'm understand but we can't go take money you know raise it doesn't expand the pie at all it just says there's more money for water and sewer services but we can't take that money and put it into a different part of the DPW

can I yes you may follow so I If there are water and sewer employees who are paid by anything outside of water and sewer, there are not. Okay. So, I guess it would be any expenses that are shared with other. No. So, everything every water and sewer employee and all of the water and sewer equipment is already paid through Yes.

So, if we were to increase water and sewer rates, what would that do for us? Well, we're going to have to pay for pay pay adjustments that we're already negotiating in. So, that has to come there for the water and sewer employees that will come out of the water and sewer fund. You know, the studies that we're doing and the infrastructure improvements like the new gravity belt thickener that we that we've installed at the wastewater treatment plant was $3.2 million. And then the $21 million Centennial Water Treatment Plant, those 100% of those expenses go on to the water and sewer rates as well. And I think I think all these other things that the counselor has requested we typically put together but I think not incoherently as you're sort of asking us to summarize which I um we were hoping to put that together. I will have to talk to the finance director see if we can really get it done by April 27th which is what our goal had been. Um so we'll do our best on that.

Thank you. Uh Lynn I I actually thought I think I heard Andy differently. Maybe I didn't, but if we build into the water and sewer rates any um salary increases, those increases would also then impact people that are not paid through the water and sewer funds. And what will be the additional impact on the rest of the DPW budget based on any u negotiated raises? But I assume that you will already have that in the budget. So, but it it it they don't stand alone. They're part of this. Most of them are part of the same union, I believe. Okay. Thank you.

Seeing no other hands, we're going to move to a vote on the motion to request information from the town manager. We start with Andy Churchill. I develop I L Greamer. Hi. Mandy Johanni is an I. Councelor Lord. Hi. Uh Sambab. Hi. Hammer. Yes. Councelor Ryan. Hi. Kathy Shane. Yes. Jennifer Tub, yes. Councelor Walker, yes. Councelor Brevik, yes. And councelor Ko Martin, yes. That is unanimous. It is just after 8:00 p.m., so we're going to take our break. We'll take a 7 minute break or so. So, we'll come back at 8:10.

It is 8:10. So if we could come back and gather so we can continue with our meeting. We have Anna. If you turned off your video during the break, please turn it back on. Okay, we are moving on to item 8 D1. Um, so I am going to this is the plan for rec relocating DPW employees. Um, I'm going to ask councelor Keno Martin to make a motion and see if there's a second. And if there is, you'll be able to speak to your motion.

Great. Um, and there's just a couple of like order errors in this. So, do you want me to say that as I go or? Yeah, why don't you do that?

Okay. Um, so the motion is on a plan for re relocating DPW employees. The motion is that the town manager presents a plan by May 4th, 2026 to the town council that provides for the following. A, the relocation of at least 50% of all town personnel currently assigned to, it should say, DPW building to suitable temporary workspaces by August 1st, 2026. B, the relocation of 100% of all town personnel currently assigned to the building to suitable temporary workspaces by October 1st, 2026. C. B, a mechanism for current DPW staff to provide input on the relocation process and the identification of adequate temporary facilities. D. Regular updates to the town council on progress towards the goals of the plan.

Is there a second? Second.

Uh, councelor Brevik seconds it. Um, would you like to speak to it, councelor Kennel Martin? Yeah, and I had originally um included a preamble with my motion. So, I'm just going to read a bit from that as well. Um, so given that the Ammeris Town Council has been provided with ample documentation that the building located at 586 South Pleasant Street, Ammeris, currently used for the town DPW operations, is unsafe for continued occup occupancy due to documented structural deficiencies, hazardous conditions, and code violations that pose a credible risk to the health and safety of the town staff and the public. um that given that I made the motion um and I do believe that um moving the staff out of the building are is extremely necessary to do as quickly as possible um to prevent injury um illness um reduce our legal liability as a town and to make sure that we can continue to provide our town services as they need to be provided. So, um, that is why I'm making this motion. And, um, again, I just want to emphasize that we're asking that the town manager present a plan, um, so that we can, um, talk about it and that he's able to analyze how this might be accomplished, um, with as much input as possible from the folks that are actually using those spaces. Um and it also is prioritizing the health and safety of the workers by doing this in um a relatively quick time period but hopefully not too quick to be feasible. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh we are open for discussion at this time. Councelor Brevik. Yeah, I just wanted to quickly say I think having something in writing that we can discuss will help us from um keep us from speculating and help us be stay grounded in facts about the situation as it's pretty complex. Um, and so I think while I know there are a lot of demands on the town manager's office right now, I do think it it would be helpful to have something really definitive that we can work with and that can help us frame our decision making and and again ground us in facts on this topic.

Thank you, Councelor Ryan.

So I agree um having something like this will be helpful. Um, I guess my only concern is just the time frame and to what degree, um, 30 days is adequate for at least the first stage of this. Um, I don't know if the manager has any thoughts on it. He may not. Um, but that's I guess my only concern. It's just feasibility and time. Um, this has been an issue for a long time. People have thought a lot about it. Um, but I think this brings us to a focus point and it gives us a chance to hear what can or cannot be done given that this has gone on for so long.

Thank you, Pam.

I I appreciate the uh the request for this in writing and for taking action. Uh, I believe that at the next meeting for the DPW building committee, there will be a discussion of swing space. Um, I am a strong believer that we need to get people out of the building as quickly as we can. uh and and keeping the feet to the fire for the committee and I think it's the committee at this point rather than just the town manager to get in writing all the options that we have for swing space to make some rational decisions about what makes sense to move people into as as relatively a a somewhat permanent position for them for the next couple of years until a new facility is finished. Um, and I don't want to have to move people two or three times if we can't do a rational and logical um, organization of their I'll just call it their swing space, their temporary home. Kathy, I

I the motion's not up on the um screen, but I just want to talk about timelines because I agree the sense of urgency is a good way to commit. I don't think there's any way we'll have a plan within 30 days. I think putting a time limit on having a plan, so potentially 60 days, 100%. Um, if you look at the very complex uh operations that are in the building, including a giant bay where they replay where they repair, it's possible that you could be it's possible. It might be possible, let me state it that way, that you could knock off part of the building and leave the the repair bay and then build around it. The repair bay is one where you can't move giant trucks into a house or into another building. So 100% doesn't seem like a goal. But I think the notion of do we have a staged plan to move people out? Have we identified space where we could put them in uh as swing space? And then the other part, I know the building committee will be looking at if we can build a structure at Ruskin that would be a permanent structure but could house a fair number of people while we're knocking down the rest of the building. How soon could that decision be made? So, I think more nuanced would be great with this with a somewhat different timeline. You know, if you Ember, I don't know whether you've taken a tour of the building, but there's some uh sophisticated electronics that monitor the water supply. It doesn't easily just move into another building. It's got to have Wi-Fi. It's got to have linkages. So, I think office staff, engineers, some design people can relocate more easily, but if they're

not with the teams they're working with, that separation may not make sense. So, all I'm asking, what I'm suggesting is we look at the timelines you've put in here. Uh, maybe not put specific dates, but you know, 30 is probably too short to get a plan. 60 might be reasonable. And then as for in that plan, how would we do this over the next uh till December? I mean, we've got a big building becoming available as potential, you know, and what places are we looking at? So, I just I just think some we've got to ask for something reasonable or we won't get anything at all. So, and I'm not I'm not capable of making specific changes other than to say I think we need to uh be pragmatic about what we're asking.

Thank you. Before I recognize anyone else, Councelor Walker, can you hear us? Yes, I can. Sorry, I just can't find my unmute. I just wanted to make sure you could hear us since you rejoined the meeting. Um, Anna Degafier,

I think my question is very similar to Kathy's, but framed a little bit differently. I also appreciate the efforts to clarify this in writing. I I'm curious about how you came to the 50% and 100% for the same concerns that Kathy had. I think you know in talking to some of the DPW workers um and and having visited the building it is it's clear that to move some of them would be something that will take more than more than this time and uh and may not be possible depending on what what temporary spaces are available. And so I'm I'm curious if we can ask the question of Paul of what would it take to move um to move the the entirety of the folks in that building to to move 100% and then where we get to the 50% number or what what breakdowns we might be able to do to kind of get as many as possible into new working conditions. Um because you know I think is there a is there is it worth asking Paul to include those percentages? I'm I'm concerned about these the the ones that are in here or just if you could clarify how those came to be. That would be helpful as we think about how to move forward productively.

Councelor Kenna Martin.

Yeah. Um so I I can respond to that. I think the the writing of the motion was really taking into account um the unacceptable level of health and safety risk to the DPW workers in the building currently. And the way that um that I broke it down was, you know, by 50 and 100 because I don't think it's reasonable to get 100% out that quickly. But certainly I think the folks that are easier to move as, as folks have mentioned, there's folks who are just using office space and you know, office space is a little bit easier to come by than, you know, the some of the needs of the the larger equipment that folks have mentioned that needs to be re relocated. Um, and I also just want to say too, a really key part of this motion is um, input from the DPW employees themselves, um, I've had a chance to chat with them as well. And while they very much want to move, they don't want to be put in a situation that is worse than they're currently in. And so, um, you know, they would really like to have input. And also, the the use of their considerable knowledge of our facilities can be helpful in figuring out what could be feasible and what could not be feasible. So drawing on the knowledge of the workers that are doing this work every day, I think that we can come to a solution um hopefully within the the time frame mentioned.

Can I clarify because I think I I jumbled my sorry. Um so Amber is are you saying that based on what you just said that 50% of the workers are kind of desk workers and so they could be moved. I think that's my question is is is 50% a feasible number in the 30 days?

Councelor Kennel Martin. Um, so I I don't have that breakdown of what percentage fall into categories. So no, the answer to that question is no. I I don't know what percentage falls into that category. Okay. I would love if that's something we could ask the town manager um in terms of the feasibility piece of kind of what is how many folks could could be moved within 30 days. How many folks could will take longer? I think that's the question I was trying to sort of get at and I think it's similar to what Kathy was saying too. Thank you.

Hold on. Um, I'm going to recognize the town manager, Paul. There's been a couple of questions there. I think there were questions. 30 days is the in the motion. 30 days is for presentation of a plan, and there's been questions about that. And then the 50% the 100% and the timing related to each of the 50 and 100%. I don't know how much of that you can address, but um I'm going to recognize you to see.

So, and I note that the superintendent of public works is here as well, so he can chime in as well. So I think that the p the percentages and the timing is a challenge. If we don't we don't have space that's readily occupiable. So we would have to go out and procure the space. We would need an appropriation from the council to pay rent on a space that we would procure uh unlikely to be in the town of Ammeris. There would be a question whether it would be in the town of Ammerst. What the ramifications of not being in the town of Ammerst are it might be not in insignificant. Um, so we there are no facilities that we have available to us right now that could that where people can occupy. So the North Hammer school doesn't have restrooms. Um, what we don't have access to Wildwood until September at the earliest. So we wouldn't be able to beat these challenges with buildings that we own currently. Um, so we would be looking in the private market to rent space to accommodate folks. I think that that's how just as you're speaking to it, that's how I'm trying to think how would I meet these goals that the council had put forward. Um, I think there's a really serious issue with um access to the town's Inet, which is our internet that connects everything, especially for the water water and sewer treatment facilities. Um, that doesn't go everywhere. It goes to specific town owned buildings. Um, we it doesn't even go to the North Ammer school. We'd have to extend the Inet into that building. Um, we I think we can use we can access Wildwood, but we'd have to go through the school district to access utilize their their network. So, there's lots of complications to when you relocate a complex organization like this. Uh, some things some functions could be moved pretty quickly. Um, a lot of the employees who are stationed out of the DPW building aren't actually in the building that often. They come in, they report in, they get in their trucks, and they start doing their work. They're out in their trucks most of the day. Um, and so that might be something we could relocate um, more quickly, I think. Um, Guilford, do you have any thoughts if I

can through the president? Guilford.

Uh, yes. First, we're we as a department, we talk about this a lot. Um, are really excited and thankful that it's actually becoming an issue and you're seeing it. Um, we are quite concerned about being moved someplace that's just moved to another spot that's a little bit better than where we were and being stuck there. We would prefer to make the plan to develop the move and make the move at one all to a final position. So, we're not spending money to put ventilation in the Wildwood Gymnasium or trying to redo something else to be a a sort of a DPW for two years. We would we would really like to address the moving forward decide where we're going consolidate on that and just move the plan forward. Um you could you could move the office staff if you wanted to. It's not um the office staff inter interacts a great deal with the rest of the staff. So there would be a lot of challenges and how to break make that work and break the barriers of being separated. So that picking the office staff which is only 10 people roughly uh which is less than a quarter of what's in the building. Um that that would be a problem. Uh there's no I don't think there's a single building in Ammerst that we could possibly use for the vehicle maintenance facility unless um I don't think there's a single building. Um, so that would be a problem. And then we are working now on a plan to move the water controls and the water computers out of the building. We're going to take those to Atkins to set up a temp to set up a permanent control at Atkins so that Atkins and Centennial will have the same controls. And then the new DPW building will have a third set of controls and

you'll be able to control all three from things from three places. Um, so we're working on that plan. and it won't be ready for probably another four months and then we have to bid it and build it. Um, so there's a lot of little moving things, but we really appreciate just moving it forward and just making some decisions and making sure this moves forward. Thank you. Um Jennifer

uh yeah one question if I if it is um going to be inconvenient or less feasible to move I can understand that you don't want the DPW employees scattered around town or some town some not in Ammerst. Um I moved here from Southern California and something that maybe it's the weather that makes this possible but I know when my children started school they were building a new school building. it wasn't ready in September, so they use mobile classrooms. I mean, that's something temporary, you know, which and they're nice. Um, so could that could something like that be a solution and they could actually be, you know, on the current site of the DPW, so they're not far away. They have some temporary orders that people could work in, so at least they're in a healthy building. and my so I hope that would ask if that could be part of um looked into as part of a plan and then my other question is when do we realistically see a certificate of occupancy being issued to the DPW building my sense is it's not going to be before sometime in 2028 if so you know when we talk about keeping the employees in the current facility I think we're really talking about two or three years and that seems seems like too long. So, so that's, you know, yes, I totally agree with Guilford. You know, we need to move forward to a permanent to a new building, but staying where they are for two or three years is in an unhealthy building doesn't seem feasible or or the right thing to do.

Thank you. Our rules provide that counselors that haven't spoken get preference over those that have. So, I'm going to move to Sam McCloud.

Uh, thank you, Mandy. And uh I I appreciate the motion and the intent behind it. Um as I read it and thought about it, I did have some concerns that jumped into my mind. Timing and feasibility were primary. Uh I don't and nor would I and I don't think any of us know the uh just how long it will take and how many is a what percentage of the employees is a reasonable number to try to move. So, I have some concerns about putting fixed uh numbers on things. Uh I like the concept, however, and I I'm glad to hear from the town manager and the uh director of the DPW because uh I think the director of the DPW is in the know uh more than most of us about what the unique situation might be in terms of managing the organization. Um, I'm wondering if there's a way that this motion can be used as a mechanism to prompt, which I believe is the intent behind it, um, this discussion and to elevate andor slashexpedite the um, discussions about feasibility of a interim space, whatever that might be. Uh I did have concerns regarding the potential expenses uh with this as well uh in terms of a short term. But at the same point I think based on our last meeting we all uh most of us or most of the comments that I heard from the council was uh uh in favor of trying to find uh options. Uh and so I'm not sure how to address it in regards to the specific motion that's here. My inkling would be to remove the

uh percentages and maybe request um that a time frame be provided to us as to what might be feasible rather than providing a specific time period to uh the town manager andor the DPW. But I think that the uh intent and goal is what's important here. uh and I'm in favor of the goal of trying to address the situation. Now, it's been 10 years ago, the letter that we received from uh uh Pelman and others and some of the reports that this has been going on. So, uh I'm not sure if a 30-day or even a 60-day time period is as critical as it might seem despite the conditions. And I'm not saying that to minimize it. Uh I'm just indicating that it might be beneficial to provide a little bit of flexibility in the thought process of the DPW and perhaps the director of the DPW and the building committee could and the town manager could get together and identify options. And I I understand that's what's written into the um the to the intent, but I I think uh I I hesitate about putting firm numbers in there. And I'm not certain that the council has the information that it needs to put particular uh deadlines in in this. So, I'm in favor of the concept and I'm wondering how we might get to uh an appropriate uh planning process, I guess, would be the word. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh Lynn Greimemer,

um my comments are not totally dissimilar from Sam's. So, I totally and completely respect the spirit intent of the motion. the question and the issue that it raises for me and that is given the knowledge about the building that the existing um administration and their staff have about what parts of the building are worse than others etc. And given the knowledge that for example we've already heard about some the some piece of it being moved off to another site seems to me that the best thing that we could do is say by a certain time like 30 or 60 days could you please present to the council a plan for moving people out as fast as possible and financially feasible. And so it's so for example, I don't know if this is true, but my um sense has always been that, you know, but this is me exchanging ignorances, which is what we start to do at this point. Um my my um impression has always been that the administrative offices are actually one of the places that are in better shape. And so maybe the administrative offices are some of the places that need to be the direct administrative offices need to be moved last. I don't know those issues. And if somebody on the council feels that they know this building at that level, I'd be surprised. But I do know some people who do know that building to this level. One of them is on the line here and the staff are the rest of the people. So, what is the best

and most reasonable way to move this staff and get vacate the property so that we can move forward with building on that property, which we're going to have to do. We have to vacate it to build on. And so it seems to me that the motion we really should be looking for, and I don't have one written, is one that says by a certain time we would like the town manager to present to us the plan for transition to temporary space. And with that stress the urgency of having it be done as fast as possible to get people out of a sick building and financially feasible as well because we could end up spending twice as much money and moving when we really maybe didn't have to move exactly everybody. So

Andy,

yeah, I think that's pretty much what I what I would um like to see as well. What are the different types of work being done in that facility? Which facil which parts of the facility are uh most hazardous to the workers? and uh what what's what's what does that then entail as far as moving people out? Um, so I I'd like to to see a more general uh plan for moving to temporary uh facilities and to have that plan articulated to us in say you know two months. I I I don't know. or we're in budget season. But I think again the idea that some of the most easily moved people might be in the the the least hazardous uh settings uh makes me think that I'd rather say we want to know what the plan is for transitioning out based on safety and feasibility and sort of give a time frame for that but not go much more detail than that. Councelor Breick.

Um, so I would be in favor of a couple of changes that I think resonate with what a lot of people have been saying. I think one of them is extending the amount of time that we give the town manager's office to come back with a plan um from 30 to 45 days. Um, and then I also think I think removing the percentages or generalizing the percentages and replacing the numbers with the intent of lang language that gets at the intent. So, I'm not exactly sure what that would be right now, but office staff and more complicated staff or some something that gets at that. you know, we want to see sort of the the phases of this. And then I would just say I think keeping the the deadlines which are at four months and six months out, I guess. Um, I think the October deadline, you know, thinking about both the the the significant legal liability that we're looking at here and the significant health risks. I I think about one of the comments um that one of the DPW workers made about having to keep the doors open in the winter in the freezing weather as a tradeoff with, you know, inhaling fumes or being freezing. And I and I just think having keeping a deadline in here, I'm sure deadlines that are shared by the town manager's office and others, you know, want to see this taken care of before another winter. Um, but I I do encourage keeping some deadline in there and then maybe stating it as with a go with a goal of date, understanding that the information that we get back in the report may affect what that date is, but we're we're still saying as a council that we

really want to set a goal of a of a certain date. Um, uh, Council Ryan,

this is always dangerous, but I was willing to try and offer an amendment, um, along some of the lines that councelor Breivik was suggesting and and that perhaps the the motion maker would be open to, but um, I'm willing to try that, but I I don't have a deadline in my suggested amendment, but it could perhaps be introduced. My thought behind this proposed amendment would be to I mean really what we need is is some understanding of what's possible, what's feasible, and setting specific deadlines doesn't seem to work with no deadline at all. I hear what council breick is saying. It sort of leaves it open. I think the manager hears the the urgency. I'm sure we just heard from the DPW director. He's, you know, sees the need. Perhaps a deadline could be kept. Well, anyway, I was willing to make a proposal, an amendment. um if the chair is willing to tolerate it. Um the other option is simply to send this back um and have the the motion maker um rephrase it or redo it and bring it to us, but we could try it here now. I don't know.

Please make your motion to

All right. Thank you. Um again, so item the first item that town manager presented plan within I was going to suggest 60 days um of the adoption of this motion. Again, that that's not quite what council breick had in mind, but anyway, 60 days. I would change 30 to 60. I was going to remove a and simply have a read now the relocation of all town personnel currently assigned to the building to suitable temporary workplaces or spaces. Period. Again, without any um specific days or anything like that, but the the so that would be B. Uh A would be deleted. B would simply read the relocation of all town personnel currently assigned the building to suitable temporary workspaces. I was going to insert C because I'm hearing that there's some I think desire to hear what this would cost. Again, I don't know if the proposer of the motion would be happy with this, but I would insert C. Provide a budget for this move and uh funding sources or you could say provide a cost estimate um and funding possible funding sources for C. Then D would become what is currently C and D, excuse me, C would become uh D and D would become E. I would keep that language. Um and of course I keep two. So my main changes are 60 days. Um and then I would remove A. That's what I'm proposing.

So I'm going to restate that motion. I believe you're trying to make it in a motion. Athena, can you put the current motion that's on the floor up and I'm going to try and summarize that in a way that is actual language and then seek a second. Um um it it's the next one down. We're on 8D1. Yeah, there we go. Um so I believe councelor Ryan's intended motion was to replace May 4th, 2026 with June 29, 2026. I am literally picking the closest council meeting to 60 days. Um, and then delete A. And in B, delete 100% of

Can we add Can we add DPW building? Yeah. Yeah, I I I will. But not the word of just 100 the the first of the keep the first of, delete the second of in that in B. Yeah. So, it reads the relocation. I guess either way it would have worked. The relocation of all town employees. It's It's getting late. Sorry, Athena. Um, and delete by October 1, 2026. George, would add the DPW was already in. Yeah. Um, would councelor Ryan be okay with leaving the October 1st with a goal of October 1st?

So, I'm going to propose other language as I restate his. Um, as soon as and in replace that with as soon as feasible. Um but with a goal of and then I guess we could leave by with a goal of October 1, 2026. So keep the buy gone. Um adding a clause underneath. So B becomes A and then you add a B I guess technically um that says provide a cost estimate and possible funding sources. um for relocation and the only one we're missing is the first clause of present a plan by should read June 29th is councelor Ryan's proposal. Did I capture all of that correctly? Yes. Is there a second to that motion that is shown on the screen? Second grie,

is there discussion on the motion to amend that is now on the floor? Yes. Was was this your motion or this is council Ryan's motion that is is Okay. Yeah, it's a motion to amend. He he did it very vaguely. So I was making it more specific. I I'm just asking if you want to be the one that makes the motion. It's councelor Ryan's motion. I object very restated as the presiding officer so it's clear and um Ling Greamer seconded it I believe. Is that correct? Yeah. Um I see well my hand is I'm going to lower my hand. I was going to make a motion to amend. So um I see Lynn Greamemer's hand is up. Lynn

um thank you councelor Ryan. Uh but I also respect the fact that we would like to keep the goal if feasible of October 1 and I I understand the desire to do this as soon as possible but thank you uh Sam Mlab uh Andy. So the comment currently is related to the amendment I believe.

Yes. Uh so a question uh do we want to add um in the coming in the request for the town manager to come back with a plan uh with uh a goal on October 1st 26. Do we want to add uh something related to recommendations that the town manager might have? I think it's somewhat implicit in the request, but perhaps there's something we're not thinking of that maybe the town manager andor in discussions with the director of the DPW only want to move 90%. Maybe there's 10% with the the big bay that they don't want to move for some reason that aren't in a particular I'm just wondering if that would be beneficial to uh have a slightly open-ended uh flexibility to receive input um if it doesn't meet the 100% Oh, we got rid of the 100%. Okay. All all town personnel. So, um you know, may maybe there's 5% 10% that shouldn't be moved. Maybe they're not even exposed to anything. And I don't know. That's why I'm raising this. So, I don't have a specific amendment. I'm raising the discussion.

Um if anyone would like to respond to that question. There was no motion to amend the amendment on the floor. Councelor Ryan,

I think there's enough room here that the manager could come back and in his report and if it turned out that it was in feasible and he would give the reasons why um you couldn't move 100% or everyone um I'm not sure that would you know it wouldn't meet the literal terms of the of this but um I hear what council mloud is saying that we're really trying to figure out what's possible. we don't know. Um we obviously going to need the input of those who do know. Um I think the language is is okay as it is. I don't know what others think, but um if it comes back that there's a good reason why certain part of the building should still function throughout this um I think you could make a case for that.

I don't Jennifer. No, I agree with what council Ryan just said. enough flexibility, but at some point everyone will have to be moved out when the building comes down. Okay. Um C uh Sam, your hand is still up. Well, I I had a on the previous item, but since we have an amended motion, I guess that's the current. I was wondering uh if if it's not on the amendment, hold it till after we vote the amendment. Okay,

because the discussion is limited to the amendment everything in red right now. Um, seeing no other discussion in red, we will move to a vote on the amend the motion to amend. So, a yes vote would change everything in red as it's shown in red and no vote would keep the original motion on the floor. Um, we start with Anna Devlinier. I Lyn Greimer. I Mandy Johanni is an I councelor Lord. Hi Sam Mloud. I Pam Rooney. Yes. Councelor Ryan. I Kathy Shane. Yes. Jennifer Tob. Yes. Councelor Walker. Yes. Uh councelor Brevik.

Yes. Councelor Kenna Martin. Yes. Andy Churchill. Yes. The motion to amend is unanimous. We are back to the main motion on the floor. It is the motion as shown in red and black. Now Mandy, can since we just did that, can she just fix it because there's an extra four after June 29 just so we can read it. See, it says June 294. Oh, the four is deleted. There it is. Yep. Just be helpful to see. Yeah. So, she's just showing it now as it will read as amended. And that's the motion that is now on the floor. Uh Sam,

thank you, Mandy. Um I'd be interested in hearing any comments from the town manager andor the DPW director on what we're proposing. I'd also be interested if this counselor has any interest in commenting and hearing from our um representative on the building DPW building committee if she has any thoughts on this or not. I don't mean to put you on the spot. I I wondering if in which case it'd be fine to not say anything, but I just I think given what we're contemplating, we all have the same general objectives. Maybe there's some interesting ideas. My guess is that the current amendment is flexible enough to accommodate all the varied uh options, but uh it doesn't hurt to uh hear if anyone has anything.

Pam, I think I said at the beginning that I support the intent of this, excuse me, the intent of this to keep the pressure on the building committee to work through these details. Um, there are so many different functions housed in that building that and and so many literally moving parts in that building that are not going to be easily transferred to another location um until until their final resting place, if you will. I and again I I think the committee and and everyone involved um is very much focused on on exactly the intent of this getting people out of this building and getting them into facilities that work. I don't want to jeopardize the any interim steps that that need to be made such as using other properties for the final home for a particular element and I I can't even name the element at this point. Um what would what would be housed at Ruxton? What would be housed at the um the waste water treatment facility? I mean, these are the kinds of questions that we um need to work through as a as a uh team uh with the consultant who's going to do the analysis on what's needed in the new facility. So, um sort of arbitrarily moving people around is not a good idea, but trying to move people into safe um housing is important and that can be accomplished. it it can be accomplished

as quickly as possible to the extent possible. Paul, did you want to add anything? No, I I think we can uh meet the requests that the council looks like it will be voting for. I think the only thing that I have not uh really had this discussion about is if the building committee's um uh consultant who will be do has some of the same tasks on there if there is going to be in conflict with the work that the building committee will be doing. Um but we can sort of we can this gives us a chance to start working on the requests from the council on this and I think we've already started much of this work.

Thank you. Seeing no other hands, we will move to a vote on the main motion, which is the motion as amended. It's showing up on the screen right now. The amendment is included in that what's on the screen. And we start with Lin Greamer. I Mandy Joe Hanicki is an I. Councelor Lord. Hi. Sam Mloud. Hi. Pam Rooney. Yes. Councelor Ryan. Hi. Kathy Shane. Yes. Jennifer Tub. Yes. Councelor Walker. Yes. Councelor Breick. Yes. Councelor Kendall Martin. Yes. Andy Churchill. Yes. Anna Delafier. I.

That is unanimous 13 to zero. That motion passes. Um I will We're moving on to item 8 D2 DPW building committee charge. I will recognize councelor Keno Martin again to make a motion. Um once again I have a quick amendment to my own motion. It's small. Um well maybe it's not. Just read it with the amendment.

Okay. to request that the town manager amend the department of public works building committee charge and composition with the following change the number of it should say voting members um from uh eight sorry I'm going to have to well I'm proposing I'm proposing that it be a voting member so that we add a that we make it a voting member um so it would be How there's currently how many?

Okay, so yeah, it would change from seven to eight voting members and sorry, I've got too many tabs open. And um add the words DPW employee parenthesis voting to the composition of members list. Is there a second? I second that. That was councelor Walker. Um the motion is on the floor. Councelor Keno Martin, you may speak to your motion.

Thank you. Yes. Um so this is um part of the response to what we heard from the DPW workers at our special meeting last night. Um I think it's really really important to um to have their feedback on this on this crucial um building committee. um just because these workers are the folks that are using the facilities day in and day out and they have so much knowledge about them and so much that can be gained from hearing from their experiences actually doing these jobs. It's actually very similar to our previous motion about having worker input on the move. So I think it only follows that we should have um worker input um as well on the building committee. Um I do um really appreciate that um we have Gilper Guilford Moing already on the committee. Um, but I think that having this additional voice will add the worker voice who has experience um, doing some of these jobs and using the building in different ways. And the reason that I had changed it to voting was just because I saw that almost every I think every other town staff person on the committee is a voting member. So I think that it would be important to give the workers this voice as voting members.

Thank you, Kathy. in conceptually I'm fine with a DPW employee um being on the committee. However, I think increasing the voting size to eight means it will be hard to get a quorum. Uh quorum of seven would be four. A quorum of eight is five. Um and the committee couldn't meet then. And what my experience on the building committee has been is that people who had full-time jobs in the school often couldn't come, you know, so the scheduling, we we scheduled as much as we could around them at key times. Um, so a non and then the other thing is non- voting members of finance, we've given their views the same way as we give voting members. So, it's not that not having a vote matters. I'm just worried about um overloading the committee where uh Cororb it's really important that this committee meets and I would hate to not see it not meet because just because of a conflict with scheduling time. It's you'll also have depending on which DBW employee wants to take this on. Um you know in the schools we had uh the head of facilities for a while we had the second facilities we had two principles I mean we had and add superintendent we had a lot of people who knew a lot about the building. Um so I I think it's just we need to avoid making it difficult for the committee. So, I favored your original motion that I saw before we came here, which was to add uh a worker with a non- voting member to extend a worker wants to um not to increase the voting number size. I would oppose it at the number of

eight. It just makes it more difficult to meet unless I'm misreading it. Thank you, Council Ryan. Well, I hadn't thought of that concern, but I really do think that uh Councelor Kenner Martin's motion here is is the right one. I think that um the workers need to have a voice and it should be a voice that counts and so I would support this motion and as it's been amended, I'm sure that they can figure out a way to to have a quorum. I think that's not a concern that that I think is that great. certainly not one that merits um not adding this voice and I I I think also it should be a voice that that actually has a vote attached to it. So I would support the motion as amended.

Pam I heard the word Henry so I thought I was waiting for somebody named Henry. Sorry. Um if I look at the existing composition of the committee, there is a staff person from the town who is uh an experienced builder and contract construction manager who is the who is the non- voting member. Um I would say that Bob Parent is a key player on the committee um even if he's not a voting member. And it goes to what Kathy said, people are are valuable for their input. I would be embarrassed if the process went through and the working members of each department were not heard. I hope we meet with each and every department and ask learn the functions inside out, learn them as well as the consultant learns them. and and if if the folks in that department don't feel heard, shame on us. Um I would support having u an additional non- voting member. Um and part of that was oh I guess Kathy actually said similar. It's it's nice to have a an an odd number of people on a committee just so that you can get through votes. Um anyway, that's my rationale for um for the changes that were originally proposed. Thanks. Thank you. I'm going to speak on my own behalf, not as president right now. Um, I struggle with this because a request

to the manager like this is really telling the manager what to do because we supervise the manager and we have the ability to give him duties. But this is not a duty. This is telling him how to do his job. And I worry that that goes beyond what our jurisdiction is and sets a very bad precedent of micromanaging a highlevel professional in how he should be doing his job. Um, so I am not sure whether it's a voting member or non- voting member. Um, whether I can support this simply for that reason of not wanting to breach our jurisdiction and reach into what his job duty is. Um, Anna, I am in support of this motion. I think I'm I'm mulling the voting member part or not, but I am generally in support of this motion. My question is really logistical in nature which is how it's determined which DPW employee is appointed. So thinking through is that um something that we would be asking the well I yeah I I guess I have I have different ideas bouncing in my head but I'm curious if um councelor Kennart Martin if you have a recommendation or if you think we should leave it unspecified in the charge so that the the manager could kind of decide the direction there. Um just again really purely a logistical question about which which employee. Uh otherwise I I appreciate the motion. Thank you.

Councelor Kel Martin. I I wasn't sure if I had to be that specific, but I think um I would ask the union for a recommendation of um who they think could best do the job. So at least present that recommendation to the town manager for consideration. Okay. that um I think that makes sense and thinking through are we then removing from elimination removing from consideration any non-UN employees that might be a good fit as well. Um yeah, I'm going to keep thinking on it, but I appreciate that answer. Thank you,

Councelor Bick. Um, I have sort of a similar comment to Anna. Uh, but I I guess I think that if if we were to have this member be a non- voting member, it it really wouldn't make sense to have them be the only there's one other non- voting member, but to have to have others have a vote and not this individual, I think I just don't see any way that that could play as fair. Um, and I think I think this just is I I guess that that's my only comment on that topic. And then in terms of um encouraging the town manager to do this or just the concept of the motion itself, I think I would be really surprised if the town manager were opposed to something like this just given all the comments that we heard and wanting to engage employees in the process. And I think I would, you know, imagine this is something that we're all kind of on the on the same page about and and wanting to hear the voices of of workers. So

Sam,

thank you, Mandy. I I would like to note I saw the uh DPW director Gilford has his hand up. I don't know if he knows that or not, but it might be worth hearing what he has to say on this. Um I do have a comment which is it seems uh odd to have to add a new member to the committee who has voting capacity and yet there's somebody on the committee currently who doesn't have voting capacity. U currently as I read it everyone has a vote except for Bob Parent and you know he's very effective and maybe we don't want to have the project manager voting. I'm not sure but the juosition seems a bit odd if we're going to a new person who does have voting. Um, why would we have one and not the other? Vice versa.

Dolphford. Um, I just wanted to throw in that when we have situations like this, we open it up to all the employees in the building. We have our two our two associations that are public works associations. We have three or actually there's four non-UN employees and then we have one employee from SEIU. So we normally open it up to everyone. We don't just ask the union, we ask the DPW employees and we ask for people who are interested and then we sort it out and it usually works out fine to choose somebody. Thank you. Um Pam,

I was going to speak to your comment about adjusting um committee charges. We often adjust committee charges as they're being formed uh to better reflect, you know, what the intent of the committee is. So I don't have a problem asking the town manager to reconsider um a committee charge. you Kathy.

Uh yeah, I just wanted to underscore a point that Pam made and she made it quickly. Um Guilford talked about the number of people in the actual what's in the building and what what is composed with it. The intention is to speak to all department heads. And that again on the school building committee, we certainly didn't make a decision about the size of the music room, about the size of where the bookcases were going to be. These were librarian in it was with librarian inputs as was the furnishing. um the school committee made dimension sizes and handed it to the building committee, but there was a lot of back and forth on the playground. It didn't mean we had a playground person on the committee. It just meant we had anybody who needed to be there when we were designing the playground. So I don't think the notion that they're not sitting talking about qualifications of the OPM and what the clerk of the works is going to do and what their experience is going to be and whether this company has ever built a building. These kind of details is not where it's going to be important to people what's what the building has in it in terms of working working conditions. Um, and Pam just said the intention is to be talking to everyone as this is being uh designed. Otherwise, it's a complex building. Um, you're you're never going to get all the voices you need on the building committee. You have to go out beyond that. Um, so the leadership people have to be specifically doing that. So this is this is a good idea to add what I think should be a non- voting just to keep the quorum smaller. We don't want this committee not to meet because of a

failure to get to a quorum. We need it to meet often and make decisions. Pam,

uh, one last thing about the the composition, um, uh, by adding a DPW employee to to the team. Um, I mean, you know, it could be that somebody from the mechanical department uh ends up being the the voter or the non- voter, but does that person represent trees and grounds properly or does that person represent uh, you know, the the the town engineer properly? So, it, you know, I think I think their role is important. They can they can um feed back to their colleagues what's happening in the building and they can solicit even additional input if somehow it's not being solicited properly by the by the committee. Um, again, I would support a non- voting member because I think it's um it's added input, but it's it's representative of the of the entirety. And if you try to make that many and I'm not saying this, well, you know, you could put a hundred people on the on the voting committee, but that doesn't really improve the value of it. Seeing no other hands. Oh, we have one more. Anna,

sorry. I just I wanted to clarify is my understanding was that because this was a town manager town manager created committee, that's what differentiates it from other committee charges that the council regularly edits or will make changes to. Am I misunderstanding that? I I believe that that's why Mandy is that why your hesitation was coming up versus other committee charges that we edit? Yes, we cannot directly change this committee charge. Only the manager can. Okay. So, it is different than the amendments that we make to other charges. We can make in like the or sorry than than how we edit other charges as was

if we've adopted the original charge then we can edit that charge to our liking at any time. But the manager is the one that approved this charge so we cannot directly edit it. Okay. Thank you.

Seeing no other hands, we will move to a vote. I believe we are starting with the Okay. The the motion we are voting on is the motion to request that the town manager amend the Department of Public Works building committee charge and composition with the following. change the number of voting members from 7 to 8 and add the words DPW employee voting to the composition of members list. That is the motion that is on the floor. And with no further hands, we move to a vote and I believe we're up to me. And I am going to vote nay. Councelor Lord I.

Sam Mloud. Nay because uh one person's not voting. Pam Rooney. Uh I'm a no. Councelor Ryan I. Kathy Shane. No. Jennifer Tob. Um I'm going to defer that. Coun um I'll vote no because our building committee representative. Councelor Walker. Yes. Councelor Breick. Yes. Councelor Counter Martin. Yes. Andy Churchill, yes. Anna Developier, I.

Ling Greamer,

I have a vote of eight in favor, five opposed. The motion passes. We are now moving on to item 8E, which is the charter review committee beyond the charter recommendations. Um, it is not just I'm going to put the motion on the floor and we'll talk through the motion. But when we are done that motion, if there is time left, I'm planning a half an hour for this. Looking at the time, it's 9:15. We'll go to 9:45 or earlier. If there is time left after the motion, and we will continue talking about other recommendations in the beyond the charter section to keep moving that portion of the report forward as we have time in meetings. And but the goal of the motion and my proposal as as said in the memo is to keep moving these forward as we have time and as we discuss them and not wait till we're finished full discussion on everything before we move them through. So I'm going to make a motion to act on the following items presented by the 2024 charter review committee in the beyond the charter section of the report as follows. through the town manager to request the town attorney prepare motion and regular town ballot language for amending the charter through the MGL chapter 43b process for adopting rank choice voting as set forth in H4189 and act relative to implementation of elements of the charter for the city known as the town of Ammerst through the town manager to request the town attorney prepare motion and regular town ballot language for amending the charter through the MGL chapter 43b process for adopting rank choice voting as set forth in H4190, an act authorizing extending local voting rights for lawful permanent residents residing in the city known as the town of Ammerst to refer the following items to the town services and outreach committee for substantive

discussion and recommendation to the town council by August 30th, 2026. Comprehensive review of resident boards and committees and their role in town governance. clarify the application process for boards and committees and make clear the various ways residents can participate in the town's governance and weigh in on government decisions to refer the following items to the finance committee for substantive discussion and recommendation to the town council by August 30th 2026 a greater level of detail in the budget documents and to amend the town manager's goals by adding the following action item to the town council community and strategic relationships goal area improve the ability to find information on the town website. Is there a second? Ryan second.

As I stated earlier, um we had a number of discussions at the last meeting. This was just trying to summarize those discussions and move them forward. Um and then I did go through and see some on the survey that was taken that had substantial agreement and added those in. I think that's the amending the goal area for the town manager's goals for improve the ability to find information, but this is just trying to move some of them forward. Is there further discussion? Pam,

quick point of order. The second bullet looks like it really needs um it has rank choice voting um stated a second time. It's almost like a copy and paste. Is it supposed to be rank choice voting or local voting rights for non-permanent residents?

It is, you are correct. It is supposed to be the second bullet point is through the MGL chapter 43b process for adopting lawful permanent voting rights for lawful permanent residents. Um, thank you for catching that. It was a copy and paste and I only fixed the H number. So, Athena, did you do you see that in the second bullet point that references adopting rank choice voting? It should say adopting local voting rights for lawful permanent residents. Oh, no. Just the rank choice voting part. Nothing. Ju just those three words. Rank choice voting. Um should keep Should Yeah. Voting rights for It's not an amendment. It's a correction. Um because it was a typo. Okay. Do you have any other comments, Pam? No. Um councelor Bravik. Sorry, I had the same comment. Thanks, Lyn Gmer.

Um, am I correct that while I have a respect for um one of our public comment speakers, even if we get all of this through, this cannot go on the ballot until next until the fall of 2027. That is my understanding from what the town attorney wrote us in KP Law's memo when we were dealing with the proposed charter amendments that the 43B process only allows ballot questions on the town regular ballot which would be 2027 not 2026. was the way I heard it and I just wanted to make that public that so people weren't expecting that this would be on the ballot this fall. Thank you.

Any other further discussion on that? Seeing none, we're going to move to a vote on this item. We start with councelor Lord. I Sam Mloud. I. Pam Rooney. Yes. Councelor Ryan. Hi. Kathy Shane. Yes. Jennifer Tub, yes. Councelor Walker, yes. Councelor Brevik, yes. Councelor Keno Martin, yes. Andy Churchill, yes. Anna Delgen Guffier, I. And Lyn Greimemer, I. That is unanimous. 13 to zero. So, we will continue discussion. I don't think you voted.

Oh, sorry. I have it on my list. Yes, I'm an I2. It's a little more boommy than it normally is. I'm used to having to be really close. Thank you for telling me to push it back. Um, so we have a little bit more time to discuss the other items on this. So, let me pull up my memo on this. So, this leaves couple of items left. Um, I I'm going to just do this ignoring the refer to go items in the memo right now because I think our go chair would say please don't send anything more to us right now. So, we we will start with there's a refer to finance item as a possibility. Um, so we're going to discuss that item now. um on thoughts on this is the one that is summarized as allowing the council to increase line items without increasing the total budget. It is listed as it would need to be a charter amendment. Um the I I wouldn't say consensus, but a lot of people said this might be something worth sending to finance for discussion on uh and a recommendation on whether to propose a charter amendment. Um, and so thoughts on that item and potentially what to do with it or what counselors would their thoughts on a referral or any other action. Councelor Keno Martin.

Yeah, I was just wondering if somebody could speak to um the reasoning behind why we thought we might refer it to finance as opposed to just sending it um for language. So, I'm not sure there was any language proposed um number one, but um this this was in the beyond the charter. I don't I'm going to end up putting Andy Churchill on the spot as to what this one was, but I think this one was in the section that was proposing public forums to discuss to begin with um possibilities. So, this hasn't been something that was recommended to actually change the charter. It was just possible discussion. Andy, as a member of the charter review committee, do you have any other information you could provide us regarding the reasons this was in the beyond the charter section?

Um, if you can give me a minute, I just want to pull up that section of the report. Sure. And I will say the the meaning the reason it is temporarily slotted under refer to finance is because when I did the poll about where people might want to send it, that was the most popular. And that's why it's slotted there for now. What What number was that? The proposals, you know, um there weren't numbers on these. Okay. Because they're not the proposals. They're the beyond the charter section. Um

was like the fifth one and beyond the charter or something. We did get some information uh from the Collins Center which is in one of the amended um memos. I'm trying to cut to that because um when we were working on the charter, we were told that state law allows town council to reduce items in the manager's budget but not increase them. And then um apparently Boston and one other town have put forward um language which uh they believe allows them to to do that but basically they don't have the same form of government that we do. So there may be um a legal question that should be whe whether it should be referred to legal or whether it should be referred referred to finance um would be question. So I'm just trying to find that uh memo.

Is there other discussion? So okay, Lynn, I would strongly urge that we get a legal opinion before we spend any more time in committee on this. I I seem to think that there's something legally at a state level that doesn't allow this because of our former government. I don't know that. Um Kathy,

I just want to echo what Lynn just said. Um getting some more advice on this because when I first opened our charter and saw that clause, I started jumping into a whole bunch of other charters. They all had the same clause and I said, "Oh, uh, there's something going on here where town meeting didn't have quite the same experience, but everybody who moved to a charter has this. You can decrease, but you can't add and you can't switch." And I thought that's that's a very you're in a box when you get to that point with the exception of schools. And schools has its own piece in it. So I just think we should get an opinion of why there are these two exceptions. Is there something specific about them that allowed that? So I can answer one of those. There is a state law that says for school committees, it is chapter 44 section 32 that allows city councils um to if requested by a regional on the recommendation of the school committee or the recommendation of a regional school district committee by a twothirds vote to increase the total amount appropriated for support of the schools or for the regional school district over that requested by the mayor or in our case a manager. Um provided that no such increase shall be voted if it would render the total annual budget in excess of the property tax limitations. So our tax levy limit um is the restriction there and it is for those that are new to the council chapter 44 section 32 and our charter basically copies that. Um my question on this one is um is this a oh is is this referring to say

um increasing I'm going to use a a crazy example. If we're presented with the manager's budget is this trying to say oh we want to increase the town council line by $100,000. Um, and then we'll decrease the town manager's line by like getting into that level of line item. Is that what the charter review committee was aiming for in bringing this up to a potential discussion by the council or the town? Andy,

this is an issue that we heard from uh a number of members of the public that they would like to see this. I think the charter review committee was divided on whether there was something that we wanted to propose, but it was included in the in the report because we had that that was something that we had heard and and I think the um the the uh councelor Breivik found the help helped find the memo which is the fourth memo the fi the final pages of the of the report um which basically ends Um with in the event that the committee recommends a charter amendment granting town council the authority to add new budget items to the proposed budget um the project team suggests the town consult its town attorney regarding the method of amendment. Boston was not required to file a special act but is specifically exempt from GLA. The town of Amoris may need to adopt such a change by other means including by special act. Um but they also note that um Winthrop is the only other town council community with charter language that appears to give the council authority the council the authority to increase amounts in the budget. But um the council president is the executive authority for the town rather than the town manager in that town. Um so it doesn't use the same traditional council manager form of government enacted by Ammerst. And then and then Boston has a process that they're sort of jumping through a bunch of different hoops so that they can sort of claim that they're not they're strongly requesting that the town manager increase. Um I'd have to you know but but there there are specific ways that they have chosen to go about this. So I I I do think that

the the suggestion by the Collins Center at the end is to say run this by legal before you go much further with it to see if it actually will apply to our form of government. Thank you Sam. Uh yeah hearing the discussion I just heard uh Mandy you were mentioning school school committee votes. Uh Andy was referencing a lot of different things. say I think it would be beneficial to hear legal opinion on this. Thank you, Councelor Kennel Martin.

Yes, I agree with the legal opinion um and maybe ultimately referring it to finance um after we get the opinion. And another thing that I think we should take into consideration with this potential change is that I think it would really open up our ability to do participatory budgeting. um which is something that we've often um you know as a town identified as something that would be good for our town and and something that um we would want to um engage the public in. So I think that um having something like that in our charter would help us pave the way for potentially doing more participatory budgeting in the future. So I hope that it's something that we can look into and um eventually do.

Thank you. Any other thoughts on this one? We've got a little bit more time. Um the next one on the list I'm going down as I said I'm skipping the ones that listed as refer to go for now. Um is regional direct the town manager to further study or implement um regionalization opportunities. I wanted to point out that our charter actually has that in there as one of the managers duties. Um I couldn't tell you what letter without pulling out my charter. It's like M or something. I was just reading it the other day. um as I was going through it. Um so I I don't know personally I don't know if there's more to do beyond that since the charter already directs him to do that, but I'd love to hear thoughts from other individuals um other counselors on should we do anything. We can move this down to a potentially take no action item instead of a direct the town manager because it's sort of already included that. But I'd like to hear from others. happy.

My impression is we've asked that over the whole time I've been here, any opportunities and Paul has brought some. So, I don't think we need to add another action. You know, the one that's in front of us down the road probably is well beyond the town manager to the extent the smaller elementary schools that are in a ring around our regional school. Ever thought we all want to band together? That's a different kind of regionalization and would require an ad hoc committee. It it's not a town manager task, but investigating water supply, fire department, DPW, do we all need to have a ladder truck? It certainly is is worth exploring. And over time, I know we had some regionalization and then we moved away from it. So I I don't think it's an a new task. It should just be there as where possible. If it makes sense, we should be doing it. New England towns were set up by the king a long time ago. Our little towns 7 by seven square miles was another land grant. They have odd borders. You know, they weren't they didn't think in terms of um how close we are to each other in density. So over time, I think it needs to be thought we don't have county governments doing anything. A lot of states do. this is a huge issue um but isn't just simply hey Paul go think about it um so I think the charter did it right if there were opportunities we should all know about it and we should jump in and I wouldn't go any further

council Ryan so it just for the sake of the record it is section 32R that instructs the manager to um explore opportunities for intergovernmental cooperation Thank you. Exact language of the chart. Yeah. R. Thank you. Mr. It's only a few off. Uh Andy.

Yeah. This one comes at the end of s sort of tail end of a number of items that were more focused on outreach on outreach and and uh transparency. And it it was sort of what do we do with this? Um well we can list it at the end of these things. I think um I don't get the sense that given the language given the language that's in the charter I don't get a sense that we need to um formalize this any further

do you need a formal motion?

I'll come back next meeting with everything that we discussed tonight. That's that's my plan as we discuss it. The next meeting gets the motions. in the big kind of like the big chunk that I did last time. We'll just keep producing those until we're through everything. Um okay, seeing no other hands there. Um we can I'm going to go to the other one that I had under take no action um at this time because that's where I just put the regionalization ones as I'm I'm calling these and that was education information for the public on what it takes to run the town like the recent civic academy. Um, and I note that there is a current town manager goal of continued civic academy and broaden outreach efforts in recruiting the next class in order to reach those not already engaged with local government. Um, given that goal, um, unless there's a modification of it, it seemed like that goal sort of met the education information on the public on what it takes to run the town item in the beyond the charter. But again, counselors, if you've got other thoughts, which is why it's undertake no action, but if there are other thoughts to this, um, I'd love to hear them on what we could or do beyond taking no action if people don't like that one. Andy,

I think that sort of falls under the a similar category to what was sent to um, TSO. Thank you. Um and uh it the the O in TSO is outreach. And so I I think that this might be another part of our portfolio that we think about.

Any other thoughts on that? So that's three more. Um, we've got three, four, nine left, many of which are the bigger ones. Anna, I was thinking of moving on to reports and all, but Anna,

just really quick because I know you've been very kind to those of us on G for the uh in this discussion in terms of how much has gotten referred. Three, if if I might just touch on those really briefly. Um, three of the items under the refer to go from beyond the charter are rule change amendments. And the way that we handle rule change amendments, um, at least since I've been chair, is that if counselors would like to see a rule changed, they come forward with the proposed writing, similar to the how they do in council, you bring it in its proposed final form. I would like to get a temperature check and see how counselors would feel if I say, "Hey, look, these are beyond the chart of recommendations." If you as a counselor would like to see them put forward, please propose it as a rule change and go will consider it along with the rule changes like we normally do. I I what I worry about is go getting in the practice of writing rules from scratch based on a vague idea. Uh and so I think that any counselor can take it is your prerogative to take those three one no it's just two sorry the district meetings and the practice of public comment and bring those as proposed rule changes with the language as you see fit to go. I would encourage folks to do that. Uh I I would discourage that as a referral for go to write a new rule. That's my that's my thought right now but I'm open to other people's opinions too. Councelor Kennel Martin,

I just have a follow-up question for Anna. So, if we do want to make those proposals, they would go to GO first and then the full council.

Yep. So, just like every other rule change, it gets um referred to go. Um but it's in its the key is that it's in its final form or in its proposed form, right? Versus just a discuss this. Um, so it goes to go discusses the proposed language, adjust it if needed, and then it comes back to the council for a vote. It's it's a slight difference here of just we get actual language versus just the the concept. So I'll I will clarify. So go in its charge has to review the year the rules yearly and they accept requested rule changes directly instead of during for that review purpose instead of coming to the council for a formal referral. So, um, anything like that, but again, it has to be in the redlinined version or if there isn't a rule there right now, you have to slot it in and propose it as a specific number within the rules and all of that. Um, and then it gets you can send it directly to the go chair, Anna, CC the president so we at least know what's going on. Um, so that we can track it for other purposes and and and watch for that. But yeah, they they accept them directly since it is within their charge to review the rules on a yearly basis.

Thank you. Did you summarize that correctly? You did. And what I was trying to say, sorry, was that G will send it back to the council. G doesn't get to unilaterally decide the change. Yeah, as I'm sure everybody already knows, but just that one will be coming at the next meeting because they've voted a recommendation. Sure did. Um, okay. So, that that takes out takes care of unless I hear otherwise. Oh, Lynn. I I believe the two uh meetings for districts is part of the charter. I don't I'm trying to find it now, but I think that's in the charter. I don't think that's a rule. So, the charter right now requires two. Yeah.

Um the rules then mention it too. Um we just sent to the I believe the attorney for language to amend the charter changing that to three. um under the proposal for the charter review committee that that they proposed that for the frequency um notification might be different. Um the rules could always go more than the charter even if the charter stays at two. So a rule change could could be made without be before or until a charter change is made. Um, so I will note on those two too. Given that it's 9:38, we will continue these discussions later and we'll get through them eventually. We're we're making progress here. Um, and with that, we're going to move on on our agenda. Um, we are starting with um, where are we? Um, sorry, I've got the wrong agenda up. Um we are now to um appointments were on consent and so we are on to committee and leaison reports. Um we are starting with the town council committees. Are there is there anything beyond the written reports for the four town council committee chairs? Any chair need to say anything beyond the written reports? Cathy?

Uh finance I think as everyone knows meets tomorrow at 1 for the CPA projects. We will also be uh looking at the month of May and specifying which day which department is coming in for budget review and we'll share that back with the council um as those are set up. Sean is setting those up. So, I just want to let you know that and Mandy already announced earlier that finance is charged with holding a budget hearing and we've we scripted that in for Monday, May 11th, which is between two council meetings. So, the finance committee will hear that tomorrow, but I also sent them a note today. So, that that's just that's the meeting tomorrow to finalize that. The procedure has been that each member of the finance committee takes one section of the budget and crafts questions that they send through Shawn. Um, and if any counselor when they open that budget book has questions, send it through um not directly to the department head, but we consolidate them so they can come in and be answering questions rather than just talking to us. Um, so it's more interactive. Thank you, Councelor Ryan.

So, just want to reinforce that uh I'm sure you've all read our reports, but we had an excellent presentation by Jason Skills, a town engineer on the road and sidewalk repair plan, and that is in your packet, and I urge you all to put it someplace special wherever you keep those sorts of things. Um, and also in the packet is the town manager's memo to us from February, I think it's February 19th, that lays out how uh Jason's skills plan would be funed. and that's also in the packet. So, just FYI, please make sure that you get those and you keep them in a place where you can read them and cherish them. Um, TSO's future agenda items, we on April 16th, we'll be meeting again with Angela Mills um and Miss Samantha Gif uh on outreach and resident engagement. On May 7th, we'll be taking up what's happening with the street lights bylaw. And on May 21st, we are hoping to meet with the PDC consultant on waste hall.

Thank you. Any questions for the council committee chairs? See none. Com town committees with councelor members. Are there any reports uh from any of those committees? They're listed as item 10b. Kathy,

I'll just do qu two quickly. JCPC had its last and final memo meeting finished to report and that's a recommendation to the town councelor but you have it in your packet if you want to read it. Uh one of the notable things given our discussions on roads is through a variety of measures during the seven meetings we did we found almost we almost doubled the amount the town had available in cash for roads which is good news. um uh and we were able to avoid any debt. So there's a a longish executive summary, so you don't have to read the whole report, but it's longer than the normal executive summary. The other uh thing is the elementary school building committee will be meeting on uh Friday uh April 17th, not this Friday but the next Friday with a couple of decisions including the design of the new Amethyst Brooks School sign which is a kind of fun thing to be looking at.

Thank you. Any other counselors to report anything? Jennifer just quickly from the council on aging. I think a couple meetings ago I mentioned that they had planned a senior sit at that's what it was at protocol and it was incredibly well attended. There must have been 50 to 60 people there which just showed how much seniors want to get out and socialize be together. You go to the bar. Yeah. Right. No, but people are having such a good time. It was a great turnout and um they also really they've said at COA appreciate the uh council's appropriation of funds to the bank center. I think they weren't sure that was going to happen so they're very happy that it is.

Thank you. Um any other liaison reports Sam? Not a leazison just a transportation parking commission. I believe councelor Ryan said last meeting uh we're meeting for the first time on the 15th at change to 6 pm instead of 5:30. Thank you. Any further reports from counselors on town committees with council members or leazison? Jennifer, I just have one question. Sure. Can you speak closer to the mic? Are are those hybrid or just in person? The first meeting will be in person. After that, I don't know. Um but the first meeting is in person. And where what date I'm uh it is in uh first floor meeting room. Is that right? Or is it on is in this room?

It's in town hall. It's in town hall somewhere. It's April 15th. Um it is now at 6 p.m. Any questions? Any further questions on committee and leazison reports? Seeing none, we approved the minutes on the consent agenda. Paul, town manager report.

Thank you. So, uh yes. So, I think the first meeting is usually in person. and that's when they elect the chair to decide how they want to meet and so the committee members get to have that first conversation how they they're going to do a hybrid or not those kinds of things. Um on Saturday, April 11th is Global Village at the Ammerst High School. Um you know it's the DEI department and a lot of towns have put a ton of time into developing this is incredibly popular last year. It's there. It's at the high school from 10:00 to 5:00 and there's food trucks and all kinds of things and entertainment and sharing information. I hope you all are able to swing by there and and thank our staff and put it on. Um then um then we have the there's a community meeting on Tuesday for Eversource that uh Rep. Dom and Senator Commerford are sponsoring in this room to talk about the transmission rightway reliable reliability program that Eversource has requested. Uh on on the day before that Monday is uh Darcy Jameson mentioned there is the information meeting in uh North Amoris at the survival center about the proposed project that that Beacon Communities is proposing and I'm glad you mentioned the roads presentation. We're trying to get the actual the PowerPoint is available but we're trying to get we're getting the um actual presentation which is about 2530 minutes that Jason did. We're going to snip that so you can have it you can share it out with people. And then there was there's about another 35 or 45 minutes of questions after if you want to see what those questions from the counselors were to Jason. You can watch the entire meeting. That's it.

Any questions for the town manager?

Seeing none, um we will move to town council comments section. The president's report is in the packet. Um, if you have any questions on that or I'll go through the future agenda items, uh, ask me after I go through those and then we'll move on to council comments. Uh, next meeting is April 27th. Uh, the goal at this point, here's what's on it. Um, potentially vote on the borrowing authorization we referred to finance today. That's a potential. We'll see what finance if finance is done with it. If not, we have 60 days from the date it was voted, which is the end of May. Our last May meeting is still within it. So, there's a little bit of window. If we don't vote in those 60 days, it is automatically approved by our town. It needs approved by all four towns. We tend to vote affirmatively. So, the region knows. Um, but we can not act and it would still be approved. Um, the vote to refer the clean energy bylaw and associated zoning bylaw revisions u for public hearing. um hopefully will be on the 27th of April. We're hoping CRC is gets that out of its one of its next meetings to get it so that we can send it to hearing. There will be a vote on a council rule of procedure will change. Um the CPA votes if finance finishes with them tomorrow are planned or within the next two meetings of finance they are planned for the 27th to be voted on. Um, water and sewer rates may be here. They may not be. We're we're still trying to figure out the timing on that. Um, and then we'll there's a presentation on the rental registration pursuant to charter section 2.8 that will be up on April 27th. Um, and then if there's time on the agenda again, more beyond the charter referrals and votes, we'll keep continue doing that as long as I think there's time on the agendas. Any questions on the president's report or on future agenda items? Councelor

Breick, when is the human rights commission bylaw coming back to us here? That is a question for G's chair, Anna. It is still sitting in G.

There is uh at G's next meeting, we will be um joined by both the DEI director, a rep from KP Law and the chair of the human rights commission. We've been working on we've been working on it very actively but we've been uh as um as I mentioned in the report we've been shifting it to a charge versus a bylaw um to give a little bit more flexibility and latitude and I'm happy to go into depth on this um but would encourage folks to watch G's next meeting. It'll be the 24th and we're hoping to get some questions that we have lingering answered at that point from the three individuals joining us. Um, and hopefully we'll get it to you likely not at the next meeting, but probably the meeting after.

Thank you. Yep. And happy to talk more and give more of a detailed update. It's just a little late, so it might not be as coordinated right now. Any other questions for the president report or the future agenda items? Seeing none, any other counselor comments? Seeing none, there are no topics not reasonably anticipated and there is not an executive session and so I am going to make a motion to adjurnn. Is there a second? Shane second. We will move right to a vote. Councelor Lord I. Sam Ml I. Ham. Yes. Councelor Ryan I. Kathy Shane.

Yes. Jennifer Tub. Yes. Councelor Walker, yes. Councelor Bravik, yes. Councelor Ko Martin, yes. Andy Churchill, yes. Anna Deaggier, I. Lyn Greimemer, I. And Mandy Johannick, is an I. We are adjourned at 9:50