Historic Resources Commission - Regular Meeting

I will call the meeting to order. This is a regularly scheduled meeting of the Historic Resources Commission of the City of Albany. We certainly invite the, glad the audience is here.

And those viewing on the city's YouTube channel,

We have a public hearing agenda this evening. And if there are any comments, we just request comments be held to the matter under the purview of the Historic Resources Commission and that it be held to three minutes in duration in the interest of time. In attendance this evening, we have Commissioner McAnany, Commissioner Geraghty, Commissioner Kaplan, Christopher Lohman, the Preservation Planner for the City of Albany is basically providing all the information for the meeting. And Erin Tobin, or Erin Glennon, not 20 Erins, Erin Glennon is the Deputy Planning Commissioner and she's at the the driver's seat there with the video presentation. I declare we do have a quorum of voting members, so we can proceed with our agenda. The first item on the agenda is 126 State Street in the downtown Albany Historic District. This is a certificate of appropriateness for painting a mural on the west elevation of 126 State Street. This is the building that is being renovated and included in the development of the downtown and the convention center. We have seen this building before with other signage proposals, as well as its role in the Convention Center. Professor, if you would like to give us a brief overview.

This is the very wall that we had quite a bit of conversation about, yes?

Yeah, it's the wall that a lot of our conversation was focused on, if there would be a mural in the future or some treatment to the wall so it wasn't left just parched gray. Is Monica presenting?

Monica is. Tony's here.

I was like, Tony, you can come up.

And Monica is also the president.

Yeah, so they're, as they submitted for us, they're proposing to do a painting of a mural on the west elevation. The proposed mural will be approximately 3,057 square feet and painted exclusively on the parched portion building surface. The material proposed is the latitude exterior acrylic flat by Sherwin-Williams. It's consistent with other mural proposals that the commission has approved before, such as the mural 40 North Pearl.

And then, yeah, so this is their proposal, and then Tony or Monica, if you want to speak to your proposal.

Thank you for having us. I don't know if you want me to answer questions, but I can talk about

but thank you for letting us present.

Can I jump in real quick? Go ahead.

Please.

Okay, great. I appreciate the committee reviewing this for us. We're super excited. This is a really once in a lifetime opportunity and the timing fit perfectly in the construction calendar so that the mural was completed when the project is completing, fingers crossed, at the end of February. This actually overlooks the, this is part of the courtyard exterior that you guys have seen the drawings for when we went through the planning process. So we're super excited to have this. It's significant. The artist is excited. Tony obviously is excited and we're happy to join the mural tour of downtown Albany. And there's a lot of historic nods to this design. We did several renditions to get to this point. And we think that it's a really good message for Albany as it's on the cusp of this new investment and its growth, but then also has this beautiful muted tone that can compliment the courtyard and the events that will be held in the courtyard as well too. And Tony and I are both here to answer any questions.

Remind the commission of the what is under our jurisdiction, and that's the appropriateness of the material being used to create the mural, but not the artistic content of the mural. That's where we're going to focus our discussion.

A question, and you will quickly perhaps say, not our purview. It's great. It's very exciting. It'll be a great enhancement. We spent time talking about that door. It was an egress. It was a door that needed to be... It's their accessible door. And it's interesting, Tony, because the mural pretends the door's not there. It doesn't integrate it. It doesn't accept it. It doesn't incorporate it. It ignores the door.

Nor does it disguise it. It stands out with incompatible colors.

Well, I think so, but John might tell us that that's not our purview. It's just interesting. When I looked at it, it's an element, and yet it's neither incorporated or embraced or subtly handle. So that's just a comment John, I'm not sure what you want to do with that. I do have some questions though about material. So the base, it was, I'm interested for long term, this and of course other murals, what you have found out about the base coats, the preparation, and the paints that you are using. So this was an existing parging and on the wall to break the cementitious coating?

Monica, you might be able to speak to that.

I do know that they did prime over the surface base. So it's pressure wash, they prep the wall space, and then they prime the space itself.

But Monica can maybe talk to the question that you had, which was?

Well, we'll start with the base. Yeah, we'll start with that base. So Monica, what was the material, the carging material, That you started with, that Tony just described how you cleaned it in anticipation. What was it? And is it all fully well here? Did you need to do any repairs or anything to it?

um i don't know the exact uh material it is but i do know that the project manager took the mesas just to make sure that nothing was loose anything that was loose they rectified that and they remedied that and then they skimmed over and you know made solid what needed to be solid or filled in there was some anchor points that needed to be addressed we also have anchor points that we have put in for the cafe lighting that you guys have seen and reviewed. And then they finished and then they did the Oh my goodness. Sorry. I'm at a conference. Yeah. Okay. Um, the primer, there we go. The primer actually decided earlier to go with the darker color, the color match.

Okay. I'll, I'll switch my, because I can't hear you very well. And so really the next ones are really, can you hear me now? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But that's okay, I'm moving back to Tony. So, presumably, you started with a clean, solid surface that was provided to you.

We will, yeah. Or you will be. Yes.

And then what materials have you found kind of for your process that's, it's the Ben Moore Canes, which brand?

Not Ben Moore, Sherwin-Williams. It's the Latitude. That's right, it's the Latitude. It's the Premier exterior. acrylic latex paint. Just a regular... Yeah, they say it has a 20 to 30 year life expectancy. The murals we've done, the oldest one is 10 years and it still is in pretty good condition. That's the Bluebirds.

The same system, same Sherwin-Williams strategy?

Yeah, yeah. And then we do like a clear coat. It's like UV protected. It allows the area to breathe. None of the paint we use traps any moisture.

It all allows it to breathe. I don't know the technology behind it, but that's what their company and representatives share.

And then the breathable clear coat we put on it is usually two layers, but it's really for sun protection, so it actually gives it even a longer shelf life. And it also doesn't prevent graffiti, but if there ever was anybody that vandalized it, it actually buffers off the paint and it doesn't hit to the actual painting itself. So it's like a sacrificial clear coat.

Is it sure when we use product also?

That one is called graphics. So it's not, they are compatible. We've talked to both representatives to make sure that it works well and we haven't had any issues with the 10 years that we've had it as far as any of the fading.

And I think it's not going to be prone to any graffiti just because it's in a courtyard space. It's well lit. There's going to be activity there. Yeah, we feel comfortable and confident with the products that we're using. and the companies stand behind what their product is, so we're trusting also that the 30-year shelf life of it lasting that long. It doesn't get a lot of sun, direct sun. So there's, I think in the evening time, at this time of the year, it's like 6.30 to maybe like 7 o'clock, there's like a little bit of sun that comes through.

Just even this past weekend, you can see shadows from the building, but when the building's there and there's no, when it's blocked, it might not actually get any sun. So we think it will be long lasting. The note of the door, we actually put the flowers on the door to kind of give a little gesture that it was like resting on. So the bottom left hand design has those two little white flowers. It was actually, I don't know if you can see it in the digital design. But we did try to be mindful of it, but we also didn't want to, it's a door, it's always going to exist there. There will probably be proper signage on it That would also, or whatever has to be done for it to be accessible for people. So no matter what that is, it will go on top of the artwork and we're fine with that because obviously we want safety and awareness for people to be able to navigate the space. And yeah, I mean, we're excited for it. This artist actually, Michael Conlon, he is the one that did the bluebirds. So we also wanted to try to tie back into this 10 year celebration of public art in the region. So inviting him back to be this artist was very intentional. He actually is a scenic design painter for HBO and like movies and sets, so he does a lot of scenic painting. But the idea of this like nothing but flowers was to celebrate because obviously there was a building at one point there. I don't know how it isn't there or when it happened, but the idea was like through something not being there, planting seeds, things grow from it. So we wanted it to be a celebration of Albany and kind of that things are kind of always growing and evolving, but really planting seeds and more hopefully exciting things happen in the future.

So we obviously stayed away from any advertisement, but we did want to give a nod to kind of go signs and old school signs from the 20s where there is this kind of like ornate design and kind of movement to it. This is obviously much larger and bold, but we thought it kind of fit the mark of being something that is going to be a really nice

wayfinding thing for the city, and I think people are really going to be inspired to see something like this.

What's the message? Nothing but flowers.

Nothing but flowers was the idea of goodness. There's obviously adversity and challenges, but we still want to celebrate all of the good that we can. So it really is just like a message of hope and beauty in this artist's style. This is how they interpreted all of the information we're trying to share to them. We know not everything is perfect, but we still want to celebrate really all the good things, and really it could be a celebration of movement, energy, growth, and transformation, but I think that that's where the city is now, is there's a lot of things happening in the area, and I think all of us are here to make our city better, and this is our part of trying to add creativity to it, and make it an exciting place for people to visit, live here, and just explore.

It certainly energizes the wall. and courtyard space, so I think that is a tremendous plus.

Yeah, and we were mindful, obviously, not to go on any of the brick or the materials there that we should be painting on, so the design layout was because what was ever there previously had that marking on the wall, so we just are staying with that. We're not expanding to go on to any other parts of the building.

Questions, concerns? The weather.

I don't like rain.

Every time we're here, it's raining.

Yeah, every time we're here, it's always raining outside.

And getting cold.

At least it won't dry too fast now. What's that? It won't dry too fast. No, we'll be good.

When do you want to try to paint it?

I would say as soon as tomorrow would be amazing.

Two and a half, three weeks for a time. I think the one on Pine Street, I was shocked that it was done in such a short period of time.

They were out there the very next morning at 8 AM.

Tony, that was like a three week process, right? It was a longer one.

The logistics of

safety of it is what we tried to prioritize but it took a little extra time but we're excited that it is doing what we wanted which was creating conversation people stop by to look at it it's uh it really transforms a space that's not really wasn't as exciting so what's the name of the flowers or anything i believe those are forgive me nuts

So it's also, some of the flowers in there also have kind of memory of the past, but also the future of remembering, embracing, change. Yeah, I think that worked well for this. There were renderings where the other flowers didn't work well, so we had a few to where this had good balance, but it also was not as loud. We have a lot of other loud murals that we've done, so we try to be mindful of the location, but with the architecture in front of the building, And just the layout of it, it seemed like this color palette kind of works well, but also is bold to stand out.

And yeah, it's exciting. I'll entertain a motion so you can get painting tomorrow. Thank you. I'll move that we approve as proposed. Okay, any other comments, discussion? All those in favor of the motion? Aye.

and go forth and paint. I appreciate it very much. Thank you all.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a great night.

You too. Thank you guys.

Bye.

Next item on the agenda is 44 Spring Street. It's the return of the carriage house on Spring Street. Center Square, Hudson Park Historic District.

James Brown is here to represent the project. Good evening again. Good evening.

Since we last attended the workshop, I did provide some of the additional information that was requested.

Happy to speak to that, narrate it if desired. My recollection was

desire to understand the way that the proposed garage door for the project was going to interface from the shop drawing to the facade. So I did provide that. For the benefit of the public hearing, I can kind of recap what we discussed in the workshop. Yeah, I was going to say, so just also along with that, so the applicant appeared before the Historic Resources Commission for a concept review in August.

The commission provided the comments of produce a new lighting, produce a new drawing accurately reflecting a proposed door modification, provide additional information on the mounting plan for the lighting fixtures. The lighting fixtures should be mounted in a sensitive manner through the mortar and should not be mounted through the brick.

Provide documentation for proposed treatment and repointing of the historic masonry.

So this is the revised door rendering and then Aaron, I think there's a slide before this.

Say that again, Chris?

The whole thing, or?

No, no, no.

Okay, I was like, I can. This is the... Back one more, sorry. I just want to cover what's been... Yeah. The slide that recaps what was provided for the lighting. Sorry, Robin. So the applicant has proposed the lighting will be mounted through the mortar joints as recommended and will utilize an exterior pancake box for the fixtures so they can be removed in the future and the joints can be repointed. And the applicant noted we should reach to as a guidance for appointing the damaged masonry and they have their intent is to paint the structure. So now, yeah, so the August submission is in here and then we have the revised version and then you can take it from there. Sure.

So in this, on the left is,

More or less the existing and on the right is what's proposed. The only change since the previous submission is that the garage door profile now matches the selected Haas model door, which again is a full applique on top of the door. So it's a dimensional style of rail style door on the right there.

To refresh my memory, is the door a sectional upward acting? It's a door head sectional door.

Okay. I don't have anything earlier than the 1976 assessment, but as we kind of discussed before, my belief is that the reason that there's this large wood header across that is that there was a hung door. It was a sort of swinging door or something like that when it was converted to a garage in the 20s and 30s.

And that was probably replaced mid-century with this more or less conventional colonial style overhead door that's on the building currently.

Can you go back to the full elevation renderings that we just saw? The proposal that we're looking at now is on the right side. And the rendering on the left shows us what looks like an unusual configuration with two different rows of transom. Why are there two different rows of transoms like that?

Again, this is a supposition on my part, but looking at it, what it looks to me is that there was originally a high row of transoms underneath the steel lintel that you can see running across the entire building. I believe that was installed at the height of the original masonry. It would have been a door and two windows when this was a house. And they put that steel lintel across there. And then they wanted glass, and so they put that ribbon of that first uppermost row of windows in place. But then there's this curious wood buildup. It's a flitch beam. It's a combination wood steel going across there, which is intended to carry some weight. And below that, when I think they shifted to an overhead door, the overhead door came in certain sizes and they said, okay, we'll just add more transom glass to fill in the space that was left over. That's what the building tells me, but again, I have no proof one way or the other as to why that was the case. But it was very clearly, and there is proof of this inside, this was a house. It was converted into a garage between, again, I'm thinking the 20s or 30s, and it's been a garage ever since. There's evidence of the upstairs being basically remnants of an 1850s living quarters up there.

Hasn't been inhabited in probably 50 or 60 years at least. And our intention is to bring that back into use and renovate it.

But accordingly, we need this door for a person in order to meet egress. So really this project is about enabling us to both use the first floor as a garage and to introduce a stair to the second floor. You can't put the stair into the backyard because even though that would be fine for my family, that's not a public way. So if this building were in the future to be sold or disconnected from our home because it is on a separate parcel, this would be a code-compliant adaptation.

Right. So a question on that lower course of transom rights from the photos they look like they almost are the same vintage they're very similar and and the Your presentation of theories, I mean, it sounds pretty viable. But then when I start looking at the two sets of mullions, it's like, oh, that's kind of interesting. They look really very similar. And do those, from our perspective, have their own significance? So what's the information that we have? I get the early 20th century conversion. I get that. And the school, the steering, and therefore the further.

What do we think is the...

earliest date that the lower ribbon of transom lights for, I guess they're transoms, when might that date from?

Again, I'm thinking it's mid-century when they put that overhead door in. But again, I have no proof one way or the other. What I do know though is that our intention here is to adapt this to code compliant use.

In so doing, I have to put a door in that is higher than street level. I have to step up into the building.

And that lower set of transoms would be compromised by a 6-8 door on the left. And so then to say, well, let's preserve it on the right for some reason. We also would like the garage door to be taller than it is. Right now you can barely fit my vehicle in there. It's literally within a few, you know, ace of an inch of getting in there. So we would like a taller door. That's just a functional desire for the space. And then the other thing is I really would like to get rid of the glass right now. People can see in our garage. And given the state of affairs on Spring Street, that's very much desired.

So I'm not in need of this glass on the interior of the building.

And the approximate height from grade to the underside of the lower transom is? About 6'8". Just 6'8", yeah, 6'8".

Which is why you see that 6'8 door, if you move it up six inches, then that therefore compromises that transom above it.

Excuse me, can you take comment from public this morning?

No, we're still in the middle of discussion.

On the right, Horizontal and the verticals are applied. Where's the seams, the door folds in thirds?

See those dark lines? There's like a slightly darker line. Yeah. So there's four separate panels. Okay.

And any reason that whereas we had on the existing doors, six bays, if you will, across, you've got eight.

This is a more Victorian-style door. The bays that were there, it's a, again, a mid-century colonial-style overhead garage door, so I wasn't looking to necessarily emulate what's there. You were talking about the doors themselves, like the door panels?

Yeah, I suspect we're talking about the door panels.

Yeah, yep.

There's a door in the back, I believe. Is that original to any period?

Again, speculative on my part, but there's a man door in the back that I believe was the front door of the house, and they just repurposed it.

They just moved it to the back because it has a mail slot.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the back as a mail slot. And I did match the style of that in Oh, you did match it. As close as I could find without ordering an outrageously expensive solid wood door. I am ordering a wood door, but a fir door and painting it. You're going to put a mail sign on it? We get our mail on the other side, but maybe at some point we might want to do that.

That would be nice.

Any indication of what side the door would have been on? when that was still a residence?

Again, speculative, the pull-down stair that goes to what used to be the living space above, looking at it this way, is on the left. Also, the adjacent road homes were also on the left, and I'm putting the door on the left. So it was on the east side. Yes, exactly. So it's on the same side that I believe it was historically, and that's also where the header is in the floor system that we would be actually enlarging for a more code-compliant staircase, but that looks to be, again, 1850s, 60s.

Is the upper row of transoms being replaced?

No. Just painted. And the shutters have been added. Is the hardware there for the shutters?

Yes.

the pindles at least, the rest of it's all. And then as we had discussed the question about the conduit on the left side and the clearance of that far left shutter with the conduit, are you guys going to be able to mount that?

I'm using real shutter hardware, so even if I have to put a hold back or something, I'll put the shutter over it because it's only sticking out of the building, you know, a few inches. I wish I could remove the surface and put it underground or something like that.

Are there any shutters on the rest of the street?

Of a historic nature, no. The building next door has shutters on it. Some shutters appeared on a building recently down the street. Are they solid or are they movers? Again, they're not historic. One is solid, one is slivered. The intention with the design of the shutter was something simple, which is why we picked a panel. and a two, like a one over one, which matches the two over two windows that it's covering. It's just trying to keep it simple.

The sash for the transom light over the door, are they operable or are they fixed? No, they're all fixed.

What kind of material, oh, there's one.

Well, to move this along, I'm going to propose it with the project being approved, but I want to say a couple things. I feel a lot better. It was like, wow, this is familiar, but I don't remember this project. This is familiar, but in the notes it says that I came at 627 because I was stuck in traffic. And I remember I was on 90, and I told you I was stuck. So I feel better knowing that I got here at the tail end.

Right.

I let you all keep going rather than start conversation, but that was why it was so familiar to me. So I don't want to back away from anything that you all had discussed and the path that the project had taken when it was seen previously, so. What is the material? Wait one second. Okay, sorry. First, you need a second before you answer. So I made a motion.

Oh, you made a motion?

Yes.

Okay.

Oh, I just had a question about the material of the shutters.

Hold on one second. Is the motion to approve as proposed? Yes. Okay.

Approve.

So I'm going to public hearing first. Yeah, so. That's it? Yeah, that's it, okay. Sometimes we've got to catch you guys up, right? So we have public comments still. Oh, okay. the discussion of the painting of the building as well.

Ah, okay, I'll retract my motion. Okay, hold on.

Okay. You had a material question.

I was just, yeah, what is the material proposed for the shutters?

They're a composite shutter, but they're a full-dimensional architectural shutter. It's an inch thick. It's a real style of rail, you know, not going to rot in our hands. And it's painted, so really no discernible difference.

And then, so Erin, if you want to go to the pictures of the painting, of the building's paint today. These were taken earlier today regarding the masonry treatment in the painting, which was a request from the Commission from last meeting regarding The treatment, me and Aaron have had discussions regarding the building and based on some of the imagery and some of the documentation that I was able to collect today, unfortunately I had to go out of town for an emergency so it was a little hard for me to get these done until today. There's the question of if the building was originally painted or if it's been inappropriately painted and if it should continue to be painted.

It's proposed to be painted.

It is proposed to be painted. I believe it was a color in the rendering, bluish gray.

And even being on site, you couldn't quite determine if it had been painted?

Well, it obviously hadn't.

It was painted brick color. It's in the mortar joints. Very long time ago. It's barely there. But I would, just as the applicant, I would say the building was painted.

And furthermore, this is not a show-face brick. Again, mid-19th century, very unusual in Albany not to have been painted.

So our proposal, and honestly just to preserve the structure as well, is to continue with that treatment.

And you staff who have and your fingers on it that seems appropriate to you to repaint it?

I think the difficulty with it is, as with other projects in the past too, if a building would, you know, well, it's going to depend on the proposed treatment of like the kind of paint that's being used in this case possibly, considering that it may have been inappropriately painted at one point as well.

We also, you know, a lot of this is reminding me of the discussions we had around

public school 17 regarding some of the inappropriate painting on that building as well and the proposed treatment and removal of that kind of paint as well.

So that's why we wanted to bring it to y'all's attention and have a more deep discussion than we did on the concept review.

that school hadn't been painted and it was proposed to paint it, or had it been stained and it was proposed to paint it?

Well, it had never been painted. There were some areas that had either been tagged with graffiti, or a big applicant, and we weren't sure if it was bleeding from the actual brick itself that had been stained, I hope you funded the impressions, but as far back as we could find and any information we had about healthy had never.

It had never been paid.

Yeah, that one was a bit difficult too because public school 17 had gone through three additions as well. So it was prepping all of that, but with the sensitivity and the nature that the commission treated for that, we wanted to make sure that we got a discussion about this one as well.

Thank you.

What would your prep work be for the painting? What would the prep work be for the painting?

We would, I mean, honestly, we could blow on it and it's really a very, it's barely there.

So I would assume we could move it by gentle physical means.

I would hesitate to pressure wash or anything like that and introduce moisture into the wall if we don't have to, especially given how

porous that brick is. So it would probably be a light sanding wire brush type removal.

There are some parts of this that have been preserved pretty well in terms of the original mortar. There's also some modern mortar. We would try to remove as much modern mortar as practical in the conduct of this.

Obviously, we point any joints. And again, I included preservation brief too regarding you know, historic brickwork.

The contractor we're intending to work with is familiar with all of these methods and understands how to do it properly, and we would replace it with appropriate line mortar, and then use a basin, you know, a water-based masonry paint.

Who's the contractor?

Ben Salaita. IOSCO construction.

And are you using the state tax credit for this?

I haven't decided whether to do that. Honestly, it's my throughput to be able to file part one and two, so I haven't made a determination.

So they haven't input, they haven't...

I haven't solicited anything

Ring for a motion now.

We're back to public comment. Yeah, we still have public comment.

Oh, sorry. So we have one. So he is joining us virtually.

Can you hear me? Yes. Hola, amigas y amigos. Anyway, I think this is a architecturally and historically appropriate facade rehab. One of the better ones that we've seen, I think. And I like the new single layer transom, which provides a more balanced facade appearance. And my only, it's not, you can call it a condition, although the owner, the applicant addresses it. that all masonry repairs be done not to damage the building, to damage the masonry, and it be done to match the original features as close as possible. That's it. Can I also say something else about the previous? It's very short about the previous project. I think the mural adds some liveliness to that blank wall, and I love the fact.

Yeah, me too. That was pretty. Thank you.

Duly noticed. Thank you.

Thank you.

And did you want to make a comment?

Yes, I did.

Can you identify yourself?

Good evening, my name is David Shackney. I work at the Alton Housing Coalition, and I'm here to address another case. I wanted to ask the owner, you mentioned the date 1850. Is that a verifiable date? It kind of aligns with the look of the cornice. I'm noticing two over two windows, which were begun in the 1870s. So if it's an 1850s building, the windows have been replaced. To my eye, the sequence of events with regard to the finish of the garage, I can't imagine they added a second transom in the 20th century and left only a six foot eight clearance for an overhead door. I'm thinking that the double transom related to an earlier application and then the later 20th century or mid-20th century they squeezed in a overhead door but the double transom configuration i do not think related to the installation of what we see i think it's a wonderful plan and i really like the uh the panel the door you chose for the front door reminds me of the door i've just installed at 80 willett street on the street the other way

I think the double transom, it was fascinating. I think this is the appropriate way to make it function. But I think there was a reason for it, because the lower transom is also not the same size as the upper one. And whether somebody had some kind of a workshop or something in there, if they needed northern light coming in, it's interesting, but I don't think it should get in the way

this progressive way it seems to be right and the blue form does yeah the blue form gives the date of initial construction 1845 to 59. wow well thank you for your comment now i'll entertain a motion

I'll move that we approve the project as presented.

Second.

Any other comments from the Commission? No. All those in favor of the motion? Aye. Opposed? Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Good luck.

This is going to be a good improvement.

Oh, yeah. So within the next, tomorrow and next week, you'll get the COA from me, and then we'll move the permits over

Yeah, thanks. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

If you need anything, just reach out to me.

Take a brief intermission. Can we really get an intermission? We don't have any entertainment. Do we get all stretched? Do we have to vote on the amount of time? All right. Ten-minute intermission. So I need someone to make a motion for attending. Motion?

Second?

Aye. Okay.

All those in favor? Aye. Is there a candy machine around here? Downstairs.

I think we have 57.

What she liked during the year is not going to happen. It's going to happen.

It's going to happen.

I don't get to go in all the time. So when he said he wasn't sure, I think that'll be a discussion. I don't know if you can find it. That's great. That's great. I don't know if you can find it. I don't know if you can find it. That's great, so there's a whole range. Yep, yep.

That's true, that's true.

I think he's great. It is, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of interesting. We also have, you know, our fair share of people who have a month or two of Saturday evenings with no permits.

So a lot of my work over the past few months has been mitigating that. That's fine.

I understand in certain cases that they didn't know the aspect. I mean, I had a homeowner that just, you know, personal information didn't really pertain to the relationship a little more than the amount of the students.

They took their raincoats off, and we worked for the safety inspector, and we required a permit.

So they just .

So, yes, no, you want to look at that. You're a homeowner, so you took good into that.

I put back what was there. or something.

And it's the initial capital grant.

So my link is in the part that I require to be permitted because of the regime.

I took out your people and text me what's going on and I will send you a permit that you can sign. And then I really appreciate it.

As I do for us every time.

I feel like we're in the same place.

Because the scenario I just described is 28 or 29. And you ought to know that. That's a simple question.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I'm having this active conversation with my mother and she's looking at funding sources that she's very well looking at. And if it's the case, you're not starting an agency. So I'm going to ask her just a question. Okay. The very, very small.

And the next thing you know.

Some things I'd rather just...

I have a amazing gift. That's funny, because in my opinion... I usually feel like that. Yeah. Wait until you see these bookcases and look inside. Ask her. When you're there, ask her. You can take a look at the bookcases that he designed for the dining room. Cool. I don't remember. It's just cool. Yeah, that was nuts. And then down and up.

Yeah. That's neat. That's amazing.

Very, very nice. Now that looks like, this is 47. This was the one that has all the siding. It does, I think it just makes it easier to just make it so they can work as needed.

I'm just happy to see bigger blocks like this coming to the district. Yeah, that point's got to do with, you know, finishing up those names now.

Finishing them more. Yeah, that's great. It's being reviewed. I feel like I'm kind of on the pad. Now this one. I'm very excited. I was especially excited about that last one.

I'm always on board.

Thank you. I need to get rid of that, too. Nice. This is brick. This is the original brick, John. I was joking with one of my friends about the fact that in certain cases, historically, there's one tripping dead. I think that's where preservation can draw a line.

It was interesting because I was reading the report on HUD Detectives.

HUD Detectives.

HUD Projects. That was some of the discussion we were having in town. It was sort of interesting to hear what HUD now is.

One of the people . You can always make a motion.

At any point, any of you can ask for an intermission.

Yeah, I made a motion to be allowed to hear it.

It's like when you're at school, you know, looking at your desk.

Yeah.

Oh, yes.

I think this is like the first solution that we've done, but now we've done .

Thank you. Thank you, Mike.

Call the meeting back to order. Our intermission is concluded. Thank everyone for their indulgence. The next item on the agenda is 42nd Avenue in the South End, Groesbeckville Historic District. Certificate of Appropriateness for the Rehabilitation of the Two-Family Wood-Framed Row House.

Hi, I'm Beth Lozano. I'm the architect and owner's rep to me.

So, let me check out the right one real quick. Okay. So, the applicant is requesting a Certificate of Appropriateness for the proposed rehabilitation and restoration of the historic two-story row house. The scope of work is including removal of asphalt siding, removal of aluminum store windows, stripping of paint and repointing, restoration and painting of original wood siding, installation of a hardy board lap siding with a five-inch reveal on the side elevation where no original siding remains, repair of the existing cornice, replication of architectural details including wood paneling and window trim and hoods, replacement of basement casement windows, restoration of existing one over one and two over two windows, restoration of a door and, sorry, surrounding paneling, replacement of precast concrete stairs with a wooden stoop, installation of louvre shutters, infill of two single-light windows on the side elevation, and installation of two two-over-two windows next to them, and installation of a skirt board with a drip cap. So...

Sorry.

Much of the proposed replication and restoration work is based on exploratory work and replication of architectural features found on the neighboring structures. The neighboring lot is also part of the Mosaic South project and will be infilled. 42nd Avenue was constructed at the same time as 42, 44, and 46. And then as discussed with Dave Lucere, the the chief building official, the addition of the iron picket railing is required by the building department due to the reactivation of the basement opening due to the size of the opening. That is on the public right of the day.

That's on 34.

That's on, yeah.

Sorry.

And so, Planning, our staff's recommendation is a partial approval and partial deferral. Approval of the following of removal of asphalt siding, removal of aluminum storm windows, sensitive paint removal and masonry repairs, restoration and repair of original wood siding, the installation of the cementitious lap siding with the five-inch reveal, where no original siding remains, and the installation of the skirtboard as proposed, the restoration of the existing one-over-ones. into over two windows, restoration of the door and surrounding paneling, and then the replacement of the deteriorated basement windows. But a deferral of all other work until the additional exploratory work and research is performed regarding the presence of proposed design of architectural features, including the possible presence of shutter hardware, the presence and design of the wood-driven hoods, design and detailing of the oriole windows, the design and detailing of the cornice paneling. Once completed, the revised drawings and documentation must be submitted to the Historic Resources Commission for review and approval. This was due to the fact of allowing the applicant to begin the work and then through the removal of this asphalt siding and through the removal of the material and restoration, identifying these architectural features. That's all.

Okay, great.

Thank you for a very thorough review.

I think it's all exactly right. I think that what staff is proposing, okay, here's all the stuff we're fine with, and we want to find out these other items, and that's the process, that's all appropriate. But I'm really impressed by the choice of the insulated glazing. to the existing restored windows.

Yes.

We've never seen that before, and I don't think it's that very thick.

Do you remember the thickness, the overall thickness? It's basically the same, it's almost the same thickness as the standard. Yeah, it's a quarter, you know, like, it's very thin. You don't notice the additional thickness, so the owner hates storm windows, so.

So that's, yeah, that's very impressive. And the material coatings, the kind of finishes and the other, the repairs are all well considered preservation materials. So that was very exciting for me to read through and then to hear that you've picked up those other items already of let's let this go, but the investigation is part of the project and come back and tell us more.

Which I don't... As things get uncovered, you determine what the original treatment was.

Yeah. I mean, I'm very certain that it has exactly the same trim details as the remaining two houses, because they have exactly the same... Everything that's left on this building is exactly the same as its neighbor, and one is missing, and then would have been the fourth one. So they all had the exact same facade. And then we saw some holes that looked like shutter hardware, but if they're not there, then we don't propose adding shutters where there were none. And that's really the only thing that we're personally unsure of at this time.

If you all go to sheet, the proposed sheet, I want you to look at the, oh, yeah, that's great. So if you can zoom in to the right side, Erin, you're running up? Zoom in to the right side so we can see the far left window at the basement level.

The same building?

No, on the proposed, yeah. Yeah, perfect. So that window I, here's what the note says. Double, and I was going to ask you what it meant, but now I know what it means, and I think it's worth telling everybody. New double-hung look casement windows with laminated glass for emergency egress. So I'm looking at that. Why didn't she call it a casement? A casement goes this way, but it doesn't look like a casement look. So I think really, however the wording works or doesn't work, for emergency egress, which has very specific code dimensions, 44 inches, 24 inches, whatever they are, I don't know if it's a new window or if you're proposing to rebuild that window.

The basement windows will be new, but they will have the same horizontal and vertical profiles. so when you're walking down the street, it looks like the original window, but it's a single casement, so you get the whole rough opening that you need for the emergency dress. Except is the glazing all in one pane? I believe so, but they have a thick, like if the mullion sticks out, none of it's like between the glass.

Yeah.

Anyway, that's, That's why that is, it's emergency egress, but intending for it to look like the three over three window, I guess, is what it would have been.

This will be a one family or two family?

Two family. Historically, they were all two family and it will remain two family. So we're incorporating the basement into the first floor unit. to add a couple more bedrooms.

Right.

They all have one-over-one windows at home?

Yes, because they're 1895, so on the front they have the one-over-ones, and on the side the two-over-twos were original.

The other item of discussion also is the change from the existing stone stoop to a proposed wooden stoop as well.

It's a precast.

Stoops on the other buildings?

Next door is wood. Many of them were just a precast. My brain says they were all wood and they all deteriorated. As an area that was developed by immigrants, they're probably not doing big sandstone stairways.

Especially when you're doing one of the speculatives. I mean, unless you just had a huge family.

Just a comment in design. The front rooms have extra thin windows compared to what they would normally be on that street. It's maybe four inches less width than what would usually be there.

Yeah, and they're all that kind of more elongated look to it.

And apparently all the same builder.

Yes, William Beebe.

Beebe?

Yep, he built all of that. I mean, I don't know if he got them all done in one year, but he did.

He probably had a heating problem that year. He had a special deal on narrow windows.

Yeah.

Well, they were heated with the cast iron stoves, though.

So on your list of items to be revealed, was it all of the trim around windows and doors as well?

Yes. So the deferral section that I have proposed is all other work until additional exploratory proposed design of architectural features, including the presence of shutter hardware on the first and second story windows, the presence and design of the window trims and hoods, the design and detailing of the aureole window's lower paneling, and the design and detailing of the cornice panel. Once completed, revised drawings and documentation must be submitted to the Historic Resources Commission for review and approval.

Maybe stick in an including but not limited to. Because when all that is removed, I don't know what else might pop up, but something interesting could pop up.

Yeah, I think the, I mean, the paneling is probably there. You know, the oil window there. The hoods are obviously gone.

Yeah.

You know, so either you said we can replicate next door and two houses down or we can't. You know, there's nothing I don't think to uncover there.

Are you starting work tomorrow too? The strip is shut down today.

No, they started on that vacant lot to the left of us, so there's going to be some interesting dance there, but we're doing some stabilization work.

is down right now, so I think that's going to keep them occupied for a little bit.

Is this a workshop or is this a hearing item? No, but we do have public comment first, when you guys are ready for that. Okay.

Anybody else, are you ready?

back again there he is hey uh i could i concur with the um with chris's assessment of um additional information that's needed but um i think it's a great project that's it thank you thank you you're welcome anytime tune back in for the next one

Can I speak?

Please.

I have a question about the photographs that we saw on the side of the screen where they, the gray and white, was that the building next door that we see currently? Correct. Those are the details. Interesting. The one comment, I think it's a lovely design.

I think it's very appropriate. The one comment I would make, The only thing that sticks out to my sore thumb is the lack of horizontal bending on the bottom of the bay window section.

It's shown basically as a flat proposed design.

Oh, I mean, it'll be, the bottom trim there is existing. I think it's just the modeling.

On the right you see a green section beneath the doubled bay window, I should say, and it has no horizontal elements.

that are comparative to the vertical elements.

The horizontal elements beneath at the bottom should be bigger, slightly bigger than the vertical element, and the one beneath the window perhaps the same or slightly smaller, in terms of a Victorian design approach. That's me screening the place.

You may find it looks that way when you take it.

Next door, I basically tried to copy exactly what was next door.

It's part of the discovery process, so you uncover it.

Yeah, and I mean, clearly the window hoods are not there.

Right. You may find shadow lines for the lintels when you take them off.

Yeah, I'm sure we will, but I'm, like I said, I'm 100% certain that they look just like this one.

Thank you. Thank you.

Hold on, we still have a motion to do too. You're good, you're good. If you guys choose that.

We approve the project including the, are they conditions?

They would be the conditions of approval.

Conditions that the applicant return the list of items that you presented previously.

Second.

Okay, so before you guys keep going, I just want to check. I'm just going to review what the full list was one more time. So if, Marilyn, you want to make an amendment or if anybody wants to propose an amendment. We recommend the partial approval and partial deferral of the COA. Approval of the following, the removal of asphalt siding, removal of aluminum storm windows, sensitive paint removal and masonry repairs. All masonry scraping and raking must be done by hand. Restoration and repair of the original wood siding. Installation of cementitious lap siding with a five-inch reveal on the side elevation consistent with the existing front elevation. Original wood siding or no original siding remains in the installation of a skirt board as proposed. Restoration of the existing one over one and two over two windows. Restoration of the door and surrounding panel and the replacement of the deteriorated basement windows as proposed. The deferral of all other work until additional exploratory work and research is performed regarding the presence and proposed design the window trim and hoods, the design and detailing of the oriole window's lower paneling, the design and detailing of the cornice paneling. So I'll declare by that as the including but not limited to those items. Once completed, revised drawings and documentations must be submitted to the Historic Resources Commission for review and approval. So now if you guys want to vote.

I'll put forth the motion to approve as proposed. All those in favor of the motion with the deferral items as identified? Aye. All those opposed? Carried unanimously. We look forward to the next steps.

Good luck.

It looks great.

We're excited to get that exciting offer.

Then the same thing in the next few days, you'll get everything from me, okay? Okay, thank you.

Next item on the agenda is 278 Clinton Avenue. This is in the Clinton Avenue, North Pearl, Clinton Square Historic District. We're looking for approval of an addition, a construction of a second story addition to the rear of the existing structure.

The addition is primarily visible from Lark Street. The visible facade of the new addition is 27 feet by six inches wide. It will include three two-over-two double-hung wood sash windows matching the existing two-over-two windows present on the property. The upper sash will be arch topped. Windows will be trimmed with arch topped melt and stone cast sills. And arch topped entails were equal in order to approximate the look, size, profile, and dimensions of the building's existing features.

be clad in the brick, matching the size, color, and texture of the existing structures, brick face, and colorized to match the existing. On the historic structure, there is also proposed the addition of a two-over-two double-hung wood sash window.

The addition will enclose three existing rear windows on the second story, and the overall structure will also have minor repairs, including repointing, repair, and replacement of deteriorated wood trim using in-kind wood replacements, and the restoration of the chimney and flashing for repair. Recommendations are that the proposed addition is consistent with the massing proportion and scale of the historic structures and is consistent in the district. Consideration should be given to the addition being constructed in line with the historic facade on the large street side. A clear delineation of the historic structure and new addition should be considered. Options could include a setback or the utilization of an alternative brick patterning along the basin side should clearly identify the addition. Additionally, consideration should be given to the removal of the three rear openings from the public right-of-way. thus removing them from the regulatory provisions of the historic resource overlay. So planning staff recommends an approval with the conditions of all raking and scraping be done by hand in a sensitive manner, all construction be done in a manner which is, in the future, the addition is removed, the essential form and integrity of the structure would be impaired, produce a measured drawing and full photographic documentation of the rear facade of the structure and provide it to planning staff for record retention, and a revised plan showing a design which will provide a clear delineation between the historic structure provided to staff for approval.

I had some question about the language that you mentioned toward the end of that talked about removing windows.

Yes, so the way that the historic resource overlay works is it's what is visible from the public right-of-way. When something, when we do an addition or we do any kind of work that encloses those areas, they're no longer visible and therefore not subject to the provisions of the historic resource overlay.

So in cases like this with additions, we often request full documentation of those areas due to the nature of the fact that we will be losing that part of the historic fabric. So if in the future an addition is removed, we can, in some cases, you know, we can look at a reconstruction and or we have proper documentation

forward so we know what historically was present.

I didn't understand the recommendation for the brick pattern.

Sure. Just read that one phrase. Yeah. So a revised plan showing a design which will provide a clear delineation between the historic structure must be provided to staff for approval. that is referring to is our recommendation that a clear delineation of the historic structure and the new addition be provided.

Options could include the utilization of an alternative brick pattern along the base and the side of where the new addition will be present. They're not changing the whole pattern? No, in a case it could be like a row of soldiers to clearly delineate this addition is not part of the original full running block pattern.

This is reminding me of the SHPO's 80s perspective of not creating a false sense of history, as it was called, showing that this is, in fact, a change to the bill. And I didn't realize that you folks were interested in that and can certainly accommodate that.

In line with that, I think that the new windows, you've got a big project and I have some questions about it. The proportion of the windows, of course, are perfect on the competition, but they don't even need to be arched head if they're truly shown as arched head. They could be square head.

We could further emphasize the fact that this is... Yeah, and be cheaper. A lot cheaper. Wow, that's wonderful. Thanks for that.

So you're there. Your office is there.

How many units are above and how many... Upstairs, there are two units, two separate units. The front unit is the... Currently. Currently in the third floor, which we're not. Two one-bedroom units. Correct, yeah. It was the front room and the alcove in the front apartment, and then a back room, similar. It was actually a separate bedroom and a separate kind of kitchen in the back.

Are you on the second floor as well, your offices?

Our offices are in the ground level, the first floor, and the second floor. We're adding to the second floor because we don't have enough space. For staff, we really need to have some room. We've added a lot of folks under a VA program called SSVF, Supportive Services for Veterans Families.

So which is the ground floor?

The ground floor would be the basement.

Okay, the basement. Okay, so we're looking at, yeah. So you're in the ground floor in the first floor. And the second. And the second. Your offices now are on three floors? And then ground for second and apartment on the third floor. two apartments on the third floor, and the proposed addition is? One apartment or two apartments?

Right now the proposed addition will be offices, five offices. Offices. An elevator. Thank you for that slide.

Why wouldn't you go up a third floor?

Cost. Also, it would be kind of, how would we integrate, I guess, If we did not provide an entry from the front, which would impact the two existing apartments that are there, we could have an entrance to offices and then get another level addition, but the access would have to be through the second floor, the main addition that we're talking about. It would be kind of weird in terms of flow. And we really, I mean, this will suit our needs.

It's so impressive that you're doing it where you are, staying where you are at this location. That's why I'm in. That's fantastic.

We thought about another location, but we own this building now and we want to develop housing, not offices. We just want to expand our current footprint. We understand in the RT district the emphasis is on keeping residential units and trying to limit the commercial to the first floors, so we understand this is more offices on the second floor but I think that's what we're about here well actually that's perhaps not a consideration for this group the developments going to include well an elevator you do not have to coming up through this back section. So you have a two-stop elevator that serves the first and second, correct?

A two-stop elevator, I mean... You have a grade-level entry on the front of the building. Right.

But it doesn't connect yet.

just connects the, basically, the first floor, we have a very large room, and the first floor, I don't know if it's gonna remain, I think it actually was cut into offices. But it just allows, you know, allows movement from the back end of the building without having to walk 85 feet to the front of the building and up the staircase and out. We're actually adding an additional staircase as well, because right now, side in the far right entry door a real long set of very steep stairs looking to improve our staircase situation at the elevator we do have a sprinkler system in the building so I think we're going to have- A 13D or a 13R? Yeah, I'm familiar with the code, the designations, but we are going to have to upgrade that system. That was my question. When you touch this, would it require the upgrade to this? And there was, I think you mentioned, Chris, some question about how would we support this addition. And that, you know, I was speaking with the architects about that, and we really haven't gotten that far into the design process. There are masonry walls all the way around. So that's a good thing. There's a lot of glazing on that outside wall, which is not a good thing. So, I mean, we may open that system up and decide that we want to run a front-to-back bearing beam or two, but we're going to look, not even the architect, we need to look at the engineer. We've been working with Shamrock Engineering on the combo project we did at 290 and 292, the six-inch renovation.

So they may be involved or we've also kind of

engineering, so it's unclear who's going to do the engineering at this moment, but whatever we need to put in place to make it a nice solid floor structure. It will be a flat roof, and the roof over the elevator is taller, obviously, so it'll bump onto the new roof, and that roof will have a central roof drain that'll feed into the roof feeders from the rest of the building.

We won't be dumping water into the yard. It's not a good thing.

Would you go back to the photograph of the west elevation? Yeah. So just to put it forward so that everyone is thinking about it, as you said, there may likely be substantial modifications to the existing one-story structure in order to accommodate the addition. And I'll assume that, from an engineering perspective, I'll assume that most of it, everything that occurs will be behind the storefront and behind the masonry that we see. But some of that might even end up being impacted and rebuilt to match original conditions. I mean, you don't know yet, but we do know that's a big, it's a major addition to it. Well, relatively, it's a major addition to that building. the intent, you know, I think we just want to be mindful that our intent is that it looks like this when we're done, but I won't, I wouldn't be surprised that there's dismantling, reconstruction, who knows what required in order to accommodate that.

And just the general conditions that we see here, that wood is not in great shape. Right. So we're going to have to do some renovation of the overall envelope of this building a brick pointing we're actually having the main roof done next week because we don't want to wait because we actually have some water making its way into the back of the top floor so we would like to you know do all the work as part of a single project but we're moving ahead on that top roof as i mentioned next week we're also currently working in the basement we've had a problem for years with moisture making its way in very interesting situation The side walls sit on top of the floor. They don't sit on footings, they sit on the floor. We actually had a contractor come in and start cutting away to put troughs to re-establish a French drain around the perimeter of that basement. And he stopped, I'm sure about a half an hour and said, we can't do this. It potentially could collapse the walls. Very unusual situation. It looks like there were original brick foundation walls in the basement, and then they put one or two layers of parging over. I'm talking six inches of parging over most of the wall, and rebarging, and at the bottom, it bumps out to a full 12 inches, like a little curve, and all of that is sitting on the floor. It's not sitting on a footing, so it's very unusual. He said he hadn't seen that much in more than 10 years of doing basements, but that's what we're faced with, and actually, as of Monday, they're going to restart, after all this rain, restart the process we decided to use. It's a surface-mounted track that collects the water,

And that track will be .

It allows you to use that space without having a water problem. There's no time.

A surface-mounted track? Yeah. What does that mean?

It's something I've never seen before, but it's basically, if this is the basic wall, it's going to be a small cup that goes into my hand that returns to the wall and is attached to the floor with an epoxy.

And most of our water, almost all of it, seems to be coming right from this floor, right above the floor of the wall drain.

So it's gonna capture that water and send it into a truck.

I kind of questioned it myself. I'd never heard of it.

The idea of a visible French drain that's below the floor level was preferable and was the plan. We've given up on the idea of lifting the sidewalks and treating that side of the building just because utilities and so on, the expense of doing that. I'll have a report on how well that works.

So I thought we were looking at a proposed addition. That's what we're looking at. And then in addition, now what we're hearing, good news, is that additional work at the existing building will occur as part of the project.

Yes, in fact, this floor plan is the new floor plan.

That's correct, but the majority of the additional work is on the interior of the structure and does not require... No, I understand that.

I thought what I heard is that, for example, I'll make something up, repainting or repointing of other areas of the building will be part of this big project. You said that, right? Yes. So we haven't seen the other elements of exterior work.

Yeah, I had noted that the overall structure will also have minor repair, including repointing, repair and replacement of deteriorated wood and trim using replacement, the restoration work of the chimney and the flashing. Okay. And then some of that additional work as well is, you know, in some cases could fall under could or would fall under a staff review.

The roof being flat and non-visible doesn't fall under the HRO's purview.

Okay.

Great.

Probably irrelevant, but in the back chimney of the original building, there is a window on each side of where the chimney would be, but there isn't one on the second floor. or the third floor, the blank. Is that really the way it was, or did you forget to put in a window?

I'll tell you the truth. I'm trying to think about three. You are adding. Could you go back one slide?

You're adding a new window on the old building.

Oh, look at that.

That would be our SSVF office and there is a mantle there, but not in the corner, removed from the corner. In fact, probably between the new second floor window and on the main building.

Well, I would think the one that's on the original building should have the lintel, cast iron lintel, so it matches.

I'm trying to speak with the architect about why they've added a window there. Yeah. Because it might be better just to leave it as it is rather than trying to have this single lintel that doesn't match. I figured on the addition if we were going to put the arch lintels- It's a legitimate option. Separate entity. It's an option to do it. But to have eight windows of one style and a ninth window that we're adding, that doesn't seem to make sense. And I don't think we need that in that apartment. Yeah, I don't think we need that in that office at all for any reason. Thank you for pointing that out. Excuse me for not realizing that we were going to do that, proposing to do that. To my mind, that's not necessary.

we have enough information to take a motion public comment public comment my turn this is really fun i like this um i think the project i think the project is

Pretty good. The addition of the second floor. I have a few comments and a basically echo what's already been said. Recessing the whatever street that is. What is it? Lark Street. The Lark Street elevation. Recessing it a little bit. Not having arched heads. Having a square head and simplified lentils. And another thing, two other things. I want to make that ensure that the existing structure is capable of supporting the addition without damaging or drastically altering existing historic features of the first floor. And it would be nice if the on the Clinton Avenue facade that the That the west entrance, the appearance of that be made to look more historically appropriate. That hasn't been discussed, but looking at the elevation, it's a pretty nice elevation with the windows, the arch windows and the storefront. And that west entrance... never looked like that historically didn't look like that'd be nice to um change that to make it look more historically appropriate that's it thank you can we see the photo yeah let's see what he needs in the last part said bright red door to the far right

Well, yeah, that would be the west end.

Yeah, it's facing west there, yeah. That's actually facing north, that's the front of the building. Oh, so it's facing north. Right, west for north. We had a building there west. Yeah, the building is on, west is on that cream coat building to the side in the east, it's a large street direction.

Oh, it is not currently part of the application?

Yeah, but it's not part of the application, no. Yeah, I'd love a more historic looking, well over six foot eight, oversized door. But I certainly could, we could consider that. I had a real tough time even trying to find snow doors for the CAVA project. In fact, we only have one set. We didn't actually have a set. But that's definitely, I agree that it could look better. It could be a better looking door. Just a large police model looking door.

You said snow door?

That's what folks are calling those doors that sit on the face of the facade. as opposed to two-fitting the doors, the main doors of the house. In the Italian style, there's a set of doors that define the front of the vestibule, and there's a main entry door, usually a step up, main entry doors. So the doors that are on the face of the building, and they're usually solid, sometimes with lights above, those are sometimes referred to as snow doors. Snow doors, yeah.

Or the outer vestibule.

Doors, yeah.

Like a storm door. A storm door. So to clarify, if you do, you know, if you guys do want to consider adding something to the project, you can, but at this time, that door is not under the consideration of the commission. So if you left it, you can leave it.

I just wanted to clarify that for you. unless it was getting cold.

So we had Lynn's comment, and we've heard from the applicant. Do we have a motion in mind for this?

I move, accept as described. Second.

So, Jack, when you say as described, are you saying as proposed by the applicant or as described as in the regulations?

With the reservations that you had mentioned.

With the following understanding and recommendations and the approval with conditions. Okay. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? It is carried.

Wonderful.

All right, good luck.

Good luck with the project. Thank you.

I'm just going to find some money to do it now. Good luck with that, too. Thank you.

Good luck with the structural issues.

Have a great evening.

You, too.

You, too. Thank you.

I wonder when those storefronts will put their back in on Mark Street.

Yeah.

They're nice. They really open to the environment. his own life to the street. What about the fire escapes?

They don't match each other. I just wonder when it happened.

And what kind of commercial establishments were in that?

Actually, yeah, we could have asked her if he comes back, how long have they been in that building? And what was the work that They've been there a long time. Yeah, for a very long time. Yeah, so did they do this, or was it a grocery store that was there before? I think we might know. Yeah.

Yeah, clearly they've been integrated into their plan, because they've got a large conference room on one end of the building, and then offices can reach out into that whole projection. Is that it? Are there any other matters to come before the Commission?

I don't think so. Move to adjourn? Second.