Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

So we are live um if tonight's meeting public meeting of the board of zoning appeals tonight is Wednesday November 5th 195 after 6 uh there is one project on the agenda for tonight it's project number 006 624 application area there-16 the property address is 195 Avenue the zoning district is residential single unit density the proposal is to allow for 40% of and previous lot coverage exceeding the 30% maximum allowed in the R1 zoning district um

is that I believe Y come up before jump into this just a couple of reminders on email for now but um out of just reminder you know we're going to have you present to us your you know your proposal and the application go through the criterias uh and you know why you believe the varant should be granted according to the criteria. period. Uh once you're done, um you know, we may have some questions from the board. Um there will be public comments and I believe your neighbors are here and like to provide public comment. We've alsoed written comments. Um we uh there is a time limit for public comment I believe. Um and June to sign up. So they pre-signed up. Okay. Okay. So they are pre-signed up for

Excuse me. I'm sorry. It's very difficult hearing you. Okay. Sorry, I will I I'm trying to just explain the rules [clears throat] for tonight.

Um, so you'll have three minutes for uh public comment after we are done with reviewing the application and uh there will be a timer measuring the three minutes. Uh we ask that you speak to us only. We try and avoid uh their communication. You're really here to talk to us, both of you, and anyone else who might be um online or who might attend. And um and also we are not making any decision today uh as uh there was a bit of a glitch with the public notice. So we will hear the case and hear both of you uh and um you know we will reserve decision until um when there's standing here.

Yeah that's uh with that said thank you and uh you can go ahead. Okay. Thank you. Um Joel Nudy Dr. who live at 195 Uklid and we'll jump right into it. Um so we need to address the the permeability. Essentially we built a garage um and driveway up to it. Got full planning permission for the slab the garage sits on and the garage and um everything was fine. We thought you can move a chair. You can move your chair.

Where's the previous slide? It says continue. Is there one before that one? Yeah. Yeah. Um so, uh so we we installed these per the approved um permits and um then

about a year ago. Okay. Uh and I I sorry I couldn't find the zoning map, so I didn't replace that one. I can do that for next month. Um, but there is the location, the house and all. There's where we reside. The garage is shown there at the bottom right. Uh, so as I said, all permits were applied for approved by the city of Albany. Um, we installed a dry well due to the excess water in our backyard in consultation with the city and our neighbors. Uh, and um, the driveway itself is not sealed. It's per it's it's permeable and I've got a couple of photos that show that and um next slide. So there we are. So this was a rain on Sunday July 20th 9 10 a.m. on the left side and 10:26 an hour and 16 minutes later um the rain you can see puddle on the driveway on the left um went into the ground. The way that the uh lot is contoured is from the garage there's a dip and then there's a rise that goes to the driveway that goes down. So that's a natural pooling place and it deals with the water um as you can see there. So this is the uh ordinance in question dimensional standards uh impervious surface because some of the city are subject to combined sewer outflows. Um there are limits on it. But I think the next slide shows the limits. Yeah. So we are are well okay and so um minimum and all said and then pervy's lot coverage maximum is 30%. I I will note that cake which is behind us is R1M and they're lot 40%. And they their water flows into our backyard. So um so that's just a you know a little note I

want to make. So um so these are the criteria the five criteria. The first one is uh if you go on to the next slide

I hope this is the right format. So yeah, probably could have gotten rid of half of them. Okay, so yeah, next. So whether an undesirable change would produce in the character of the neighborhood etc. the nearby properties we created

and variance will allow us to keep our asphalt driveway as this is um in the same kind you know all the driveways down the road are asphalt. So this would allow us to keep um that without this variance we'd have to dig up the first 1500 feet of it. uh and um it just would be unsightly, it would be expensive and and and we really don't want to do that. Uh number two is whether the benefit can be achieved by some other method and the alternative as says dig up part of the driveway. Um we priced out doing it and finishing it nicely $18,000 which we haven't got. So we probably end just taking it up and leaving it as um permeable 100% permeable space instead of the variable space that we have whether the variance is substantial and um so as I mentioned it takes into consideration the intent of the USDO requirement. So the the the drying well that we installed in our backyard um handles twice 2 in essentially of water on the 1150 ft uh that is um that we've gone over on the the hard surface and so that essentially holds it and then it flows in through the system into the nature and stuff. I'm not sure if actually ever makes it into the water treatment plant. Uh but it certainly if it does it does so after well after a rain event so that the water from that event has already been treated by the time any excess water that's in our dry well gets into the system uh will have an adverse effect or impact on the the physical environmental conditions of the neighborhood or district and um and we we don't feel it will

however um we do plan to construct a burm running east to west essentially between our neighbor our um uh premises that will essentially prevent any water excess water that's pooling on our site from reaching into our neighbor's backyard. I think that is the main contention at least as far as I understand. Um and I just want to note there's been you know we bought the house in 17 so eight years ago. This has been an ongoing issue since then. So, it's not something new. I don't feel it's anything that we generated, but um to keep the piece, we're willing to do that. And uh was it self-created? I guess is is the last question here. And uh as I mentioned, it was all done in accordance with the approved building permits. At no time were we informed of that. Now, you can say you need to know that. However, we I don't know the code 100%. And I think if the if the reviewers had known the code 100% they might have said hey this is going to cause a problem you need to do that but they never did and it's unfortunate

they might not have given us the permit if they had said that is in excess of 30% but they didn't do that either. Yeah. So so um and and again as I said we installed installed a dry well at our own expense to help with this situation. So, so we don't feel it is self-created. Um, that answers that question. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Um before we go into public there questions. [clears throat] Hi. Thank you for that. Um you mentioned that you purchased the home in 2017. This work was done in 2024. No no in 20 co co Okay. 21 I think. 21. Uh what was between 17 and 21? What was your can you get into a little bit more your experience with how uh rainwater was affecting the driveway prior? I just want to

It didn't affect the drive. So the backyard would puddle under after a big um rain storm and it would then just seep away. It was like an ice rink. It would ice over in the winter time in the winter time. And so we would have it running across the yard in the winter. Was there a particular reason that you decided to do the work in 21? Not to build [clears throat] a garage. Yes. To the cars. Okay. A personal Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing. It was not necessarily to deal with the water pooling. Nothing. [snorts]

And the uh you mentioned the cost. um to of about $18,000 to dig up the driveway and put down the recommended um permeable substance. Yeah. Is that a recent quote or just um backup paper math? Okay. When when I when I was made aware of the issue, I got a quote from that. Thank you. Those are all the questions I have right now. And then regarding the dates, so it says here a stop work order was issued May 2025. Is that correct? That's just a typo. I thought it was 24 initially. Yeah, but the work had been done.

It was already done by issu 350 bucks or something. [snorts] Okay. And then if you were to redo the driveway, you said you have to use a different type of um top. So would be would it still be asphalt or what would be different?

So I talked and I forget her name but I talked to someone in the planning department and she said that they produce this brick type material um that is partly the grass grows through it and you know water comes in and all this sort of stuff and so I got a price on that and yeah so I don't see us spending that money on that. So we probably as we just dig up the first let you know I asked you know where is the limit where's the 750 square feet and we just dig that up and leave it as long

and I saw the pictures that you provided about the puddles of the driveway. Um what has the the amount or the rain accumulation been over the last year when we've had a lot of storms in Albany? It's been pretty bad. Has there been a lot of um the raination or um I mean there's probably two times when it's been substantial. Yeah. And then do you recall how long it took for that rain water to seep away?

So I I actually installed a sump pump in the drywall. And so um and I didn't know until this summer that I could actually leave it energized. I thought I I thought that it was if it was dry and plugged in, it would, you know, burn itself out, but it doesn't. So, so what I used to do is I would when the rain got substantial, I plug it in and pump it um to the um to the garden on the side of my house. Uh and so um I I once maybe twice this year. And then my last question is just regarding the BM. Yeah. Where did that idea come from?

Um, it was essentially a response to how are we going to deal with this? And to your understanding, what would [clears throat] the burn do? So, um, my thought is I'd put a, um, along the property line, a steel plate along there, and then just build up dirt to it and then plant it, and that'll contain any excess rain water that comes down. keep it from getting onto our neighbors. Is the $18,000 is that to remove the entire factory or it was for the whole Yeah. When I first did this, I got a price for the whole thing. Yeah. Is it possible to do a portion of it so that it

it's possible? It would it'd be ugly. that would then we'd be back answering questions about how does it affect the neighborhood because that would that would look a little bit unsightly to have part asphalt and part of the right I'm not sure it's 30% yeah you would not need to come back here if if you manage to get the No but we would be violating another of the codes which is that it would be unsightly it would not match the rest of the neighborhood is what I'm to be out of character. Be out of character. Yeah, that's not like necessarily like a requirement though. That's a requirement for one of these variances, but not you would be able to do that if you want.

Are there any grants? Yeah, something to research, I guess. I have a question. Oh, where would the water from the burm go? Would you put it onto the city jurisdictional road or would it go somewhere else? little flood in our backyard the way it does right now and we would pump it to the sideyard. Right. So I mean from the burm that's on the frontage of your are you going to do the entire I'm just wondering the height of your berm and the width of your burm where that water would go.

So on in the picture there on the right sorry if you go back is it doesn't affect that at all on the right hand side um to up from there. Yeah. So that's a high point and then where you're drawing it dips down and then it rises again just off the photo to the right. So that's the area it would be probably as deepest as 18 inches or so about where that uh arrow is right now. Yeah. So it be on the side of the property, not in the front of the house. No, the side of the property. Oh, okay. I was thinking was they going to go in front? No, between the two that that white that you see where the cursor is right now is uh the neighbor's garage.

Okay. So that's so the burm would be on this side of the of the garage basically, right? It's where you can see the birdhouse right now. It would be between the birdhouse and the garage. Okay. So protect the neighbor's garage. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

And so the the main issue is pretty to the construction. Oh yes. to the construction. Um, I guess and it affects your property as much as your neighbor on your on the rate, but also your neighbors, they assume the crops or like the doesn't affect anybody else. We're at a it's almost as if we're at a low point and the water runs into our yard from Kateley and into his yard obviously from our yard and from and from Caitley. parallel behind behind the street. Yeah.

Wait, so it runs from the other street into New York. I I thought it was It seemed like the properties are slanted from but that's not coming. Thank you. And so you're um just for clarifying, you're um claiming that the construction you did did not change in any way the rain issues that pre-existed like it didn't make it worse.

Right. I I will I did look up the rainfall in the last five years. I think four of the last five or five of the last six it's been u over well over traditional. So we are global warming is affecting all of it. What's the function of the drywall inlet? Uh that so that's a um it's an empty vessel 8 foot wide by 5 foot hole and that essentially the water comes in it stays in there and it's seeped in to under a big underground h.

Yeah. So, we spent money on that already. It's helping.

Is it making a noticeable difference? If we had to say like percentage wise, you know, I think if we had a consistent amount of rain every year, we could measure that. But yeah, I don't I mean it certainly it's it's the volume is significant. Yes. So it is if that wasn't there it would be worse. Yeah. Would you be open to putting in another? I don't think we have room for [sighs] Well, it has to be at a low point. Yeah. So that's pretty much the low point. You know, it's it's it's our neighbors water. That's what really kills me. It's cakely is flowing down into our into our garden, right?

And you know, we're dealing with it. I I when I first talked to the city three, four years ago, I said, "No, can you guys deal with this?" They said, "No, great. We're dealing with it." [clears throat] It's unfortunate, but it's that's

I mean, the ideal solution for this is honestly for some sort of a um an outlet for the water between us and our neighbors so that the water would flow out onto the street and down into the shore. That would be the way it should be dealt with because we have Caitley's water. We have our own water, right? And that honestly is the way it should be dealt with. But I mean it it seems to be our fault, right? That's what we're being told that we need to make this right. And so in trying to make this right, the burm is the solution, right? Um I guess regarding the character of the neighborhood um are all the drivers in the neighborhood um or like blacked off

so mostly sealed some not sealed but yeah and yours has been unsealed. There's unsealed because you already knew you had a water problem. Yeah. We've also increased the permeability of the left side of the yard by taking out some of the stone and we had old railroad ties there and we had that um Jessicology company come in and we paid for them to take out all of that and it's planted now and it's just if you go back to the photograph you can see on the left be under the umbrella if you like you can see no no that's the patio. You have the up top and to the

on the other side of the driveway all the way over past the open drive door. Left side of the driveway. Yeah. Yeah, there we go.

Right there. Yeah. You can see where all that planting is. Um so that all So that has been made more permeable since this was originally done. So it it clearly is taking some of the water from the other side, but you still have the pooling in the in the lawn. Are there any photos of the topography of your neighbor's houses? Like you said, this is there's a hill or like

it's a slope. There's an upward slope onto cake. So, um, yes, it looks flat, but yeah, we have that. That' be great. And what does that mean? So that is a lower point. So you can see 240 back on.

Yeah. I think it's 238 to the top. That's 191. So you can see just the variation, but you don't date of when that was done or currency. It's just a data we have as far as that's a pretty recent picture because our the tree from our backyard is gone and the tree is gone from our other neighbors backyard. They just took that tree down. Yeah, pictures are the contours, but nothing has changed, right? So the yellow lines are the contours.

I guess um another question I have um regarding kind of the character of the neighborhood. So we can clearly see really that the other properties also have a lot of like there's quite a few properties that also have a garage and um a driveway that's like proper asphalt, I guess. And I not necessarily something that you could cancel though maybe you could look into it. But I guess I I'd be curious from the city. Um if you think those other properties are needing to

Yeah, I think you know very cursory using a little bit of markup and give you a general I see what you're saying. Um I believe the code for dealing with the um I pronounce that word but the improved surface um that it's not just necessarily the driveway. There' be also um an option for a green roof on the garage. that something like that could potentially also like I guess balance out

right on a slanted I've seen them on FL but like I guess I just wanted to point out like that's one of the options of code consider like either this like the material you're using for what's on the floor or then you can set up a but I see your The house also is pitched. Um questions for

um I think I I forgot to mention in the procedure but there you'll have a chance to rebut um all the comments. So if you can go back to the

[clears throat]

Um, so Edward sure

[clears throat]

pictures. I don't know. [clears throat] Our pictures have been made available to you. So, you've seen pull them. Should I start now? Um, give us a second to pull up the photos.

You can go.

Yeah. My name is Edward Sher. My wife Jul and I reside at 197 New Avenue. Um, next door neighbors to Joy. We strongly oppose the uh the granting of any permeability variance or exception to land grading which we also understood was an issue here today. I want to stress one thing. For 44 consecutive years, we never had any flooding in our garage and driveway. 44 years. Since Mr. nudities construction projects. We've had flooding during periods of heavy rain which have prevented us from using our garage. It usually occurs at least twice a year and rises to a level of up to 5 in as a direct result of his projects. His formerly level backyard has been converted into a continuous descending slope across its width from the high east end to the west end which abuts our property. As a result, heavy waters that pour in his land are directed over the slope across the width of his yard onto our yard, which becomes inundated. To prevent the flooding, we urge the board to direct Mr. Nudy to regrade in his backyard his sloping driveway, which slopes toward our property, his sloping grass land, which slopes toward our property. So, so his land can absorb as it should and not throw all of this water onto our property and prevent the formation of the huge pond that forms on his land and serves to feed this heavy flow of accumulating flood water. In addition, we urge the board to direct Mr. Nudy to restore the proper percentage of permeability by eliminating the sloping of the grass covered land on the lower side of his yard that abuts our yard. So then instead of serving as a sliding board for the flowing of water onto our

property, it can properly absorb the rainwaters as permeable lands are intended to do. Considering these circumstances, we should certainly, I feel, deny his requested variance to increase non-permeability and also direct him to take steps necessary to actually make his required percentage of permeable land fully and truly permeable as contemplated by the regulation. It's not insignificant to note that Mr. Nudy knew his projects would cause flooding. He had a failed attempt. He tried to install it a dry well. He should have installed it a drain pipe directing the water to the city's city's storm to sewer which is the best way of resolving this problem. All who observe these lands, it includes a lot of people that are experts. Uh, and I know this is hearsay, uh, but I'm telling you, they said that they are amazed at how he's converted level land into a sloping track trap, directing his flood waters to inundate our property and undermine our garages, foundation, and floor, which is while his newly elevated garage remains dry and unharmed.

The time is up, so we're just going to ask you to stop here. Okay. Thank you for your public comment. Uh I know you provided the photos which um our staff showed through um while you were speaking you spoke through the photos and um yeah we also have your comment in writing as well. So that's in the record. Thank you very much. D [clears throat] can I make just a few I know he said a few things. Um unfortunately that's it for public comment. Uh and like I said no it follows up what I think are some inaccuracies which are

So I'm going to tell you this. um you know we cannot take action tonight uh and you've submitted some comments I believe in writing um so that's in the record and I believe you can still supplement until the next meeting u so if you want to put in writing additional comments you can do that we will include that it will be part of the record and we will okay so you don't want any I can't do anything

no unfortunately we have to respect the three minutes we have to treat everyone thank you I appreciate thank I'm sorry. Actually, um, if you don't mind, [clears throat] the board has a couple questions for you. Sorry. Thank you. Oh, we have questions. We do. Okay. Sorry about that. [clears throat]

You mentioned um for 44 years it was never an issue. So when did that 44 years end? That 44 years ended when Mr. Nudy completed his construction. What years actually?

Uh it was actually he completed it I believe in in 2021 and 2022. was during that [clears throat] period of time and it's it's since then that we've gotten flooding that we we've never gotten before. I mean, if I had had flooding over 44 years, I guarantee you I wouldn't have sat there and done nothing because you can't use the garage. You can't put anything on the floor of the garage because you're always anticipating another flood. So, it's only since then that we've had this kind of flooding. And do you think that the flooding is exclusively caused by what you're saying is Mr. Uni's product projects? Do you think that's the exclusive?

Uh, absolutely. Because 44 years of of no flooding, suddenly he does his projects and we get flooding. I think that if there's any proof, that's the proof. He talks about water coming in from other places, but we never had flooding until he he built his garage. When he first put it up there, I said to my god that it's so much higher. His pictures don't show how low our garage is in comparison to his. I said, "It's it's way up on a hill. This is terrible." He says, "Well, we're going to somehow resolve it." Uh, okay. Well, all right. I mean, you're going to resolve it? I don't know how. He puts in the drywall that absolutely does nothing. He didn't consult with me. He says he consulted with me. That's inaccurate. I asked him, I said, "Please, before you do anything, I have people that really are in the no. Let me know and I'll give you ideas." No ideas at all. I've tried to get in touch with him on this before. Let's work together. Doesn't even answer me on the on the thing. I have been very open to talking to him. He doesn't want to talk about it. He says, "I'm not spending another nickel on this. He spent 1,500. I've had to spend more than that trying to resolve this myself building up dirt on the side of my garage.

I have a question. Yeah. Um, so do you think that the increase in rainfall in Albany has contributed at all to the accumulation of rain that you're seeing in your yard? Do you think it has anything to do with the changing weather patterns that we've seen in Albany? We all live in Albany. I live in Alb.

Yeah. Well, I I don't see frankly I mean I said this has been going on now since 2021 when he's done this. I mean it's been four years. I I don't think there's been that dramatic a change. I mean I've lived in Albany for almost 80 years. So I I think I know the city and I think it rainfall. I don't see uh any big difference uh in in in natural conditions of additional rainfall other than ordinary falls. When you have these heavy periods of rain, you always have those. That's when you get you get this deluge.

Um my question is more for staff. So I don't have any questions for um Mr. I think I had another question. I thought you had a question. Sorry. And then people feel free to jump in. Um my question was at the end of your remarks towards the end of the your remarks. You mentioned um the possibility of a drain pipe being installed as a possible remedy. Could you could you speak a little bit more about that?

Yes. Um, I'm certainly not an expert and I don't pretend to be, but I have had a lot of people over at the House look at the situation and uh, virtually all of them say the only way to truly resolve this is for a pipe to be extended to the city's uh, storm sewer. Um, and [clears throat] this is something I tried to talk to Mr. Nudy about. I, you know, I said, you know, let's find out how much this is. He says, "Well, I've spent 1,500 on my trial and I'm not going to spend another penny on this." Well, that was it. I mean, there's no way to work with somebody who doesn't want to talk to you and doesn't want to work with you. Any other questions? Thank you very much.

Thank you very um so my question is yeah more for staff you had mentioned in the R1 M district medium density the impervious lot coverage maximum is 40%. Um I'm curious what is the intent of that statute? Is it typographic in nature or is it more character in nature for the the variance in 30% 40% like you don't want the backyard to look like it's covered more than 30% or is it more guess here uh R1L is low density residential single family R1N is like medium density so I think just to be able to

increase the density and like the amount of houses that are in a certain area they would have to make that concession it's complete guess but it's my my thought opportunity um I think somewhat trying to match the existing conditions at the time of the 2017 update um can you repeat that I didn't hear what you said at the beginning I'm sorry could you repeat what you said

R1L is low density single family residential. R1N is medium. And so I just think with like the differences in the lot area sizes and things like that, it probably just made more sense to allow, you know, more ground coverage to accomplish the medium density uh goal. So it's likely covered by a house or a structure rather than a driveway. Yeah. And I purpos. So it could be a building or coverage in terms of like asphalt. Okay. You could have also like a driveway that is permeable. So but that wouldn't into the impermanable coverage. I'm just looking at you know the area minimum presumably a much much smaller lot in

okay the minimum could be much larger. Okay.

area.

Okay. Because I'm cur like if it's if the intent of the statute was not to necessarily like mitigate flooding and that seems to be the biggest issue here. Um I'm just and I don't mean to speak out of turn like can the 195 people that I have post just do more to prevent the flooding has nothing to do with the appearance of larger than 30%. It's just this is we have like the neighbors have water in their backyard and that needs to stop. Can I ask for just a point of order before we get to that question because we do have two more people who walked in so I think we might have more public comment and maybe add that to the discussion after we're we've completed public comment because I think that's a worthy subject but I think we get really wonky and for the sake of the people who um are here and who might be online um want to give them the chance to make their comment and then you know since we're not making a decision today you know potentially be able to Thank you. Um would either of you like to provide public comment?

I I would. Okay. Thanks for that. [clears throat] Um because you didn't sign up, we just ask that you provide your name, address um for the record.

Okay. So, my name is Paula Bingine and I live at 199 Avenue and I renovate properties in the city. I deal with codes enforcement a lot and I've dealt with this issue many times when applying for permits and I just wanted to clarify that the major issue isn't just the fact that they brought in soil to that location and raised the level of the garage and the driveway. It's the fact that the driveway was extended as a non-permeable material and that prevents moisture or water or rain from being absorbed into the land. And the reason we have the 30% rule, which is very difficult to comply with for many people because we have small lots, but the reason we have that rule is because we do not want to inundate the city sewers. So creating a drain that would take the water from that flooded area and bring the water to the city sewer would actually be contrary to what the city's trying to do. We want to create as much land as possible to absorb downpours and not allow land to be covered by non-permeable substances. So, if anybody has any questions about that 30% rule, I'm happy to answer. Um, but it's really important that we comply, especially in a in an area that's near a watershed, um, having the pond there. We do not want to create a situation where we overflow the city sewers. So, I don't know if that was confusing, but if anybody's questioning whether or not the 30% is really necessary, it is. And they thought really hard about it. They did a tremendous amount of research before they came up with that. So using land to put a driveway without a permit, without planning looking at it, there's a reason why codes wants to take it out and it's for the best of the entire community, but also for the city sewer system, which is already inundated with our rain waters. And yes, the rain has increased a little bit, but that wouldn't make a difference for them because clearly, you know, we've all dealt with water in Albany, but the rain isn't that significant. The issue is clearly that

the property has been raised with extra soil and there's a non-p permutable. So I'll leave does anybody have questions for me or was that I actually just have one. Yes. Uh since you were right next door to Mr. Sher do do you have any have you seen any impact to your home as a result? No. Thankfully Mr. Sher's uh property is higher on one side and it keeps that water from coming into my property but I'm lower than everybody else. So, um, so my other neighbors do come into my property and I've been battling that water issue for years. Thank you.

So, that's why I did so much research. Thank you. for years. So, prior to 2021, um, I've been in that house since 1992 and I am lower than everybody around me. I'm lower than the people behind me. I'm lower than people on both sides. So, I've always had water. That's that's not consistently over the years. It hasn't been that issue. It's the same. Every spring the snow melts and I get a pool of water in the same location and and a lot of people do in Albany, but the situation I've lived there. They've never had they cannot even put a shelf in their garage because it would tip right over the amount of water that they get and it's not fair to put people through that kind of stress. It's not their problem. Somebody else made the decision to do it. So, all right. Thank you.

You also want to provide a public comment. I I don't have a comment that's particularly pertinent to this. I've just dealt with many wanted to show support. Okay. Thank you. Um there's no one. Okay. And then um so the applicant if you can come back you get an opportunity to rebut the public comment. Can we get a recording of this meeting?

Yeah. It's publicly available. Yes. And we'll be back next month. So we'll So no rebuttal tonight. Not tonight. Thank you. But to be clear, are you asking to reserve your rebuttal time for the next meeting? Okay. How much rebuttal time is at the next meeting? Well, sorry. Yeah, right.

Presenting. Okay. So, there's no issue. Yeah. It may be irrelevant because you're coming back for a full meeting. um how much time do they have to present

and we'll take public comment again the next meeting so you're you don't have to come back we've heard you but you are welcome to come back as well um okay with that said um do we want to go back to my if you don't mind repeating. Well, I was kind of like um bringing that or like mapping it out as I was talking. Um I was asking about the intent of the 30% like did it serve is it functional or um aesthetic in nature? Like who was it is it for to see the water or was it more like people just don't want lots to be covered more than 30%.

Appearance wise. Um, I think it's probably a mixture I would guess. I I I don't obviously know like what they were thinking when they were drafting it like changes to the USDO and stuff, but I know generally it's probably more your guys there. So, please come back to it by information by the next month next month's meeting. Yeah, we can talk when it was being drafted. That's record by the way when they discussed it. I think that was a tremendous decision. And it's all on the record and you can see exactly why they did that. It wasn't mistake. It's scientific.

It's 100% scientific. It's based on data. That's why they do it. It's not about it's really about I have a question that's more for uh city staff. I just want to understand the timeline uh a little bit more clearly. So 2021 the applicant applies for a permit to do this work. Yes. And there was two construction. Okay. And uh fully approved

um as to the work that is currently completed on the property. would say from my reading time of the driveway. Okay. Otherwise,

okay. And then when did the when did it come to the city's uh [clears throat] awareness uh of this problem challenge? I had a lot of communication um like late winter early spring 2024 um when the neighbor brought it to detention various departments and uh planning department issued that denial letter which was largely a functional denial because the project had already been completed. So a legal fiction or a legal creation for lack of a better term. I believe the soft.

Okay. But again, similarly, sort of like a legal distinction without meaning uh because there was no work currently being done. There were two stop work orders, May 13, 2025 and June 23rd, 2025. Is there a particular reason that there were two separate ones? Not entirely sure. One is closed from June though and one is still in violation. Take a look. You guys can go there for this is for the garage itself. Okay.

Okay. So technically two stop work orders for two separate quote violations. And what is at this moment what's the impact of those violations? Are there fines that acrue or is it just you are violating this, fix it? I believe the one that was closed, you know, better than me, but um either the fine speed or waved and the correction is variance. Okay.

So, he is addressing the violation by seeking the varian. Looks like there's a $300 fine for a one-stop work order, which is like the lift fee, and the other has had none yet, but it's still in violation and being appealed. So, I assume that's why. Looks like they were both for very similar reasons. I think uh one might have just been the driveway, one might have been the garage, one also includes a recommendation for electric. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. I know I asked earlier 2025 so that you know help me with that. Thank you. I don't have any further questions. Thank you.

Actually I lied. Do we have Sorry. Do we have any records um in the past, you know, three or four years? I don't know if we've looked if we can that if we have capability of seeing whether or not anybody else in um this particular zone has applied for a variance of this type. I did that. There's no more public comment but also thank you

please and thank you. I think it would just be helpful to know at least uh you know as we we have a general idea that there are other um homes in the neighborhood that have done you know maybe attempted this type of work but I think you know just from what we have if just to have a sense of that now I have no more questions I have question [clears throat] I'm just wondering where would we get the information about the other uh neighbors who have exceeded the 30% for their uh properties. Where would we find that information?

It's not really information that's out there. It's just the public. No, it's not. Yeah, maybe it's that link. It's available on our website or just search

Yeah. So, you could contact staff if you have questions on that. Okay. Thank you. Um, okay. I don't have any other questions. Anyone else tonight? Um so just for clarity.

While you do that, uh just for clarity on the process, um you know, the law requires a few types of noticing for meeting before the board can take an action. There was an issue with the noticing in the times union. So tonight's meeting, we're not able to take a deci make a decision. So uh this case will be this project will be reviewed by the board uh most likely at the next at our December meeting. Yeah. Uh so that's why there's a second meeting in December. Um which is when we would be able to take action. I think in my question for that applicant is um if you do have additional information to present us at the next meeting of any al additional alternatives considered now that we've discussed more the intent [snorts] of why there's the 30% maximum block coverage if it's for this functional purpose. If there are other alternatives considered that functional purpose um that would that would be something that could be taken into consideration for that particular factor. And you said you were going to set up a firm following up on that. What's the timeline on that?

Well, I wanted to wait until this was done before I did anything that so it depends. Um, you know, I like to do it in the springtime. Great. And then to Martha's question about considering other alternatives, I know that there was an issue that you brought up or a question about the green roof and whether it could be on the slanted roof. So that might be something else to look into as well.

We also looked into, in fact, we're probably going to put rain barrels to collect the water from the roof as well. That was part of the application. I guess I'm just saying if we're going to have more back and forth, we should probably have people come up so we can hear that one. Okay. Um, last call for questions or

do we need a motion for tableabling or will it just be I I have a question. We will be notified of the next [clears throat] meeting beforehand. Um, it'll be publicly posted, publicly noticed. Posted typically backtoback meetings, we wouldn't require reming. Um, that's not typically what we do for any of our boards, but um, it is available on the agenda, which I think I gave you directions on how to sign up for that. [clears throat] You can just make sure to send an email or something like just in case it doesn't happen in December. So, next thing. I notified him that it was not in November.

Yeah. Uh the staff will send you an email to confirm that which meeting it's scheduled for uh so tables. Uh thank you everyone for attending. Um we do have um other business for tonight. Um finally we can approve any rules the updated rules of procedure for the board. Uh obviously you're [clears throat] abaining this unless you review this for tonight not in detail but I will abstain. I will

abain or any motion to I move to approve the rules [clears throat] of procedure. Yes. Yes. We have enough for we do. We have four. I So I don't know if there's enough for a quorum. No is three. Yeah. Okay. All right. Good. So I made the math before. Okay. But I assume you

um are we going to do anything about the fact that the building is shaking? Shaking. Nobody else. I'm sorry. We need to finish the meeting. I apologize. Okay. I move to adjourn. Second. All in favor? Hi. Hi. Thank you.