Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Uh thank you everyone. Uh come to order to the meeting the public meeting of the board of zoning appeals. Today is Wednesday January 7th. Um that's today on the agenda we have private um area variance 2025-18 area variance 2025-9. The property address is 463 Magazine Street. Um the applicable for the R1M district is tall and 60% options to address the height was the second addressing the city. Uh, and I'm sorry I forgot to confirm that we were live. Okay, great. Awesome. Thank you. Um, that's it. I believe the applicant is here. Please come on up. Do you want me here?

Yeah, it's my wife Trisha.

Hi, how are you? So, you usually have a PowerPoint presentation and all of that. Um, so I think we'll just have you walk us through it and do theation as to, you know, what is the project and how you think it meets the criteria that the board is required by law to consider in making a determination. We may then have a few questions. Uh, I believe I saw an email just now that there are a few public comments that were submitting submitted in writing. Um, and I don't know if there's people that will show up, but you know, we'll take public comments and usually, um, you know, we can ask questions of public comments. We ask that public comments are only directed to the board and then the applicant usually gets a rebuttal to, you know, respond to any public comments. That's process. So, go ahead.

Okay. Um, so, uh, my name is Jay Glenn. my wife Trisha. Uh this is our house, 463 Magazine Street. Uh you can see the fence we've put up there. Um the people that live next door on the other side of that fence um are extremely irrational people. Um that's the reason why we put the fence up. [clears throat] Um, originally we put a fence down the side of our yard between our house and it comes across to the front of the yard. Um, and after we did that, um, we've been badgered and bullied and harassed. Uh, it's been going on for years. Um before the fence was there, there was a bush that was there that kind of separated between us and them, but they could see over that and through that. And um when we put the fence up in the backyard, it was peaceful for a while, but then when we came to the front yard, um the badgering and the bulling continued. Whenever we come out as our driveway there to get in our car, the door comes open. Uh, we've been called every vile slur you can think of. Uh, I won't even mention the words here. Um, and uh, it just got to the point where, you know, we didn't want to deal with it anymore. um the bush that was there. My wife was uh getting in her car one day to go to work and she came out of her house and stood in front of her car and uh told her, "If you don't cut that bush down, I'm going to cut it down." She went into the house. We brought out our deed. It's uh notorized and registered with the city of B. it's got all the measurement of our property on it and went to show her the deed to show her that the bush was on our property and

she came to the door and told her she was going to kill her. Um, and that was the final straw to me. So, we decided to extend the fence down. We did call the police. We called the police. The police came and they advised us to put a fence up to the sky as high as we could. Well, they said if I were you, I'd put up a fence. Yes. And we did. Um but we realized that um you know if the fence is short or is opaque and they're still going to see through it and they're still going to harass us since we put that three section extension on that fence. It's been a year and a half now. There's been peace. Yes. There's been no interaction and uh it's been

pretty Yeah. Yeah. Uh other than that uh but now it's starting up again. Well, this past summer, uh, she's got a above ground pool in her backyard, and she took a hose, uh, connected it to her pool and drained her pool into my sideyard, flooded my sideyard, uh, went down over that retaining wall, flooded my garage in my basement. We had to call the police again to stop to make her stop. Um, that's all we did. Yeah, cuz we don't want Other than that though, since we put that fence up, it's been peaceful. Other than the water incident, it's been peaceful. There's no interaction. They don't see us anymore. We We don't can't see them anymore. And that's why I'm asking

for the variance to keep it to keep the fence up to keep it. We just want peace. We just want peace. We just want to be left alone and just enjoy this house that we are in. Um it's a family house. My husband's family has been in it since 1972 and we've all we've we've all

uh to answer that right there the uh the character of the neighborhood. Um I believe there I took three pictures. I hope I think they're in here in this PowerPoint. Uh before I put the fence, I went through the the neighborhood and I took pictures of uh houses that have done the same exact thing we have. They've got six foot fences. Here's my neighbor across the street. They have 15 foot high arbor vites. You can't see over them or through them. Um on the left is you. I'm on the left. That's directly across the street on the right. If you go there's other pictures. You go further up the street. There's a there's a sixoot fence there separating them just like us. And there's one more. There's a a sixoot fence right there that was just put up

that was just put up this past summer. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that, you know, as far as taking away from the character of the neighborhood, I'm showing that it's that's all within one block of my house. Uh, the same situation. And there's a stop sign on our our corner of our house, which you can tell it doesn't cause any problems with the stop sign that regulates the traffic. And I think believe there's a question on here about the the traffic, right, in the neighborhood. And does it affect the traffic, the fence? And it doesn't,

right? Um, and there is a stop sign right in our our front yard there. There's uh uh we were originally going to plant our revites like the guy across the street uh instead of put the fence up and we got our deed and we measured out uh to the property line and we put pole poles in the ground with rope uh because we wanted to be inside our property and not affect them. and uh she came out of her house and just took the poles and rope out of the ground, threw them in our yard. She took a can of spray paint and spray painted it right down our yard. Um and that that's

Yeah. So, we decided that wasn't going to work. Putting the shrubs up there, they're going to be able to see over it and they're still going to be able to harass us. So, that's why we decided to put up the fence. What were the poles on the property line? To mark the property line. We wanted to plant inside our property. wanted to be sure they were going to be on our property. So, we measured out. We brought the deed outside and then we measured out measured holes out of the ground and threw them in our yard. So, and the property doesn't go straight down. Our property goes on an angle between us. It's not a straight line. It angles towards her house

and she doesn't like that. But that's those those that's the property line. Um, every time we have, well, they have called the cops on us, um, for wellness checks, uh, last summer, you know, with all the fence and everything. And every time the police did come, police would would say to her, "You're still having this problem. You still haven't figured out your deed or, you know, whatever." And then it would cause even more problems because, "Oh, I see how it is. You're on their side and you're not on my side." And that that hap that's that's what happens. That's

so the deviation from the ordinance I wrote here. It's it's only two feet higher, but it's the difference between them seeing us and not seeing us. We don't. And that the fence isn't opaque, which again is the difference between them seeing us and not seeing. If they don't see us, they know they don't know if we're out there getting in our car. They can't badger us. We don't we don't go out our front door pretty much anymore. where we go through the garage that way nobody sees us, you know. And then I cook a lot. I cook all year round on the grill and I cook in the [snorts] the um driveway so that way they can't, you know, nobody can see me cooking in the driveway or come out and, you know, say whatever. So

yeah, the defense doesn't impact drainage or noise or other public service. It doesn't affect the traffic. Again, we have a a stop sign in our front yard, so that controls the traffic. And then that goes back to what we said before. We just put the fence up. We want peace. We just want to be left alone now. We want peace. It's been going on for years. And I'm just we're just tired of it. We just really want to be left alone. Yeah. Okay. [snorts] Thank you.

Thank you. Um, do you know when the public comments were added to one, but I personally have not? I don't know if the rest of the board has. So, Do you mind?

Um but maybe before we do that um I guess because public comment comes after we have a discussion. So um just level setting on that process wise um and before uh I turn it to the rest of the board for any questions to the applicant. I have a question um for the city. the this um the the code requirements with tall trees. Uh how do we deal with the trees the requirement like pal trees there like across the street their neighbors have that doesn't is that compliant with the code or is that not

there's no there's no right it's private property and it's trees so it's not regulated the way does take longer to fill in space I was just curious Thank you. Um, otherwise any questions to the applicants? I have a question. It's not for the applicants. Thank you. Uh, it's actually probably a question for either staff or council. I'm just trying to understand. Can you pull up a picture of their property? Um, because they

No, the like actual direct view. Um, I'm trying to understand how we define front yard versus sideyard and if this is different because it's a corner lot. I guess I'm trying to understand right that from what I can understand the fence is extending out from looks like to me the side of their property. So I'm trying to understand like it's over to the front wall of the building and position the front of the building on a corner it's similar to a front yard although there are for the corner side of the property there are to enclose the side of the property with a fence but being that this is the front the door I see. Okay. front of the fence comes forward that would be I see. So if the fence

didn't extend out as farreight that would make it different. I see that was just an interpretation to your question. I have nothing for you guys. Thank you. And that actually um leads to a question for me for you. Um your property continues. So the fence currently doesn't go all the way to No. We left space there purposely because of traffic so when we back out we can see if cars are coming. So we purposefully did that. But it's enough where their front door is right there. Ours is here. You know we come out over in our front yard.

We don't see them. They don't see us. I have a question. Are you going to you're only going to replace that current fence like the exact footprint as it stands? No, we want we want to leave it there. We would like to leave it there the way it is. This is a retract. They're seeking a variance for something that's already done. Already done, right? It won't go any more than that. Yeah. Okay.

And for the character of the neighborhood, it sounds like so there are other fences in the neighborhood. Do we have like general addresses? I know that's been for other applications and that uh we don't have specific addresses right now. I can just walk us through the neighborhood if you want to take a look. Maybe just got like two come up [snorts] like our sign cases like you're saying the properties they provided photos for we have the addresses and they are in the neighborhood. Is what you're asking? Yeah, the the addresses are actually included with the photos. Yeah,

one's across the street. That's directly across the street. Yeah. That's a block up. And you provided the address? Yes, it's Yeah, it's on the same side as our house. It's one block up. That is four houses up on the opposite side. And there's addresses on where those houses are. I think that's your question. Yeah. Just for our record.

Yeah. Did the area variances for fences recently change or in the last two years? I remember hearing something about there being some change to the variances. I was just wondering if if staff know anything about that. Going back to what was sort of speaking to when you have a side yard now portion of the side with the front yard. Okay. Yeah. I feel like the 60% is like the standard for a long time.

We used to get a lot of variances for the side. I think there are some compromises.

Oh. Uh, any other questions or should we have public comments? I can read it or I can pull it up on the board or what do you prefer?

This is from my support for the variance 2518 and 25. This address is directly across the street from my house. like to see as this is from nice and there's a gentleman in the back. This is Michael Sweeney. This is our neighbor. Our neighbor. He lives directly behind us. I guess before we have you we would have you go back. Do you want public comment?

I'm open on this one. I've been neighbors with these guys for 20 plus years. So, I guess we just have a I'm just going to one step back. I think you can sit here. Okay. Uh can you just come closer? Can you give us your name, address, and uh and then speak loudly? So, it's all being recorded. Okay. Yeah. I was Albony police officer for 24 years. made it through. Oh, strangely enough, I find myself back here like a bad penny. [laughter] I worked across the street. Um, in regards to these guys, these were the first neighbors I met. Name and [clears throat] address.

Um, oh, I'm sorry, Michael J. Sweeney. Um, 15 Dale Street, which is immediately to the west of the, uh,

Yep. the property in question. Um, like I said, 20 plus years there, never had any issues. Um, the neighbors on these guys poor other side. However, there's been problems up into the to the position where we actually not we I was at work and I'm like, well, I heard the address. I go again. So, I'd have to go home and you know, work is work. Home life is another thing. You try and, you know, you take your shoes off of the door and try and live [clears throat] a home life. It's okay to a certain extent when you have to deal with this day in and day out when I'm already pulling 8 to 16 hours a day down here. Makes it a little not for friendly neighborhood environment. I understand. I think these guys have way more patience than I would ever have had. I kind of would have lost it. The gentleman that I bought my house from is another police officer. What I didn't find out till after I bought the house is there is a nuisance neighbor. Now it's been a 20 year mistake. There's no real option here. When I saw these guys put that fence up, I go, "All right, that's cool. That's a, you know, out of sight, out of mind. I thought it would work." I go I can see white orange and blue stripes in the driveway again. Okay, what now? And I I have, you know, I didn't want to interrupt anybody else's call. Let them handle it. Everybody's an adult here. And what happened? You get the the fill in. I'm like, just don't stop. And doesn't seem like there's a victory here. I thought this was a small victory. I understand. I I get the city ordinance. I got a fence goes all the way around. All right. Six feet is six feet. I get it. I'm one of those

neighbors. Uh, but good fences make good neighbors. I believe I heard that when I was growing up. I'm sure kind of most people here have. Um, I I I honestly being coming from the police side, I didn't have an answer. I really didn't. I feel bad for the new officers that are going to these guys, you know, trying to promise them a world, but got to be a realist. Yeah. You have your property, but 10 feet away, you got their property. And how do you get these two to pass in the night without causing abrasion? I don't have an answer. I like I said, I'm just taking this from the outside. These guys, [snorts] nobody's calling the cops on these guys. We can't say that on the next door. I personally had interaction with it where I'm going, this is getting unprofessional, but I retired. I'm good. I made it.

Sorry. There's a few minutes.

Is there a question? No. Uh any questions for No. No. Thank you. Wait, is your position do you support the fence? I'm sorry. Are you support you're in support of the fence? I understand both sides.

Okay. Okay. Um, you know, but being a cop at that point, we weren't allowed to get involved in we can't get involved in civil matters, criminality. Uh, we can't even breathe in ethics. You know what I mean? It's personal opinion. You can give an opinion. Everybody's got one. Does it work? No. But when you live next to this and you sit back and watch it, sometimes things just don't work. And that's why we're here. I mean, I'm retired. These guys been nothing but good to me for 20 plus years. You know, this is the guy. He used a snowblower driveway. You know what I mean? It was that guy. You see somebody shoveling, you go, you know what? I got gas in the snowblower. Go inside. You know, you go [clears throat] back thing and you don't you don't think anything of it. It's just kind of the little neighborhood we're in kind of works. We just did uh we got a nurse wobbly med nurse next door. She never does her driveway. I did her driveway. I did Donna's next door. And it's just you don't think anything of it, you know. Take care of your neighbors. You have to be a jerk all the time. So that's just part of growing in Alb. Yay. [laughter] And I still I retired and I'm still here.

Thank you. All right. Thank you for listen. [clears throat] So, [clears throat] the house next to the stop sign, that's your neighbor's house, correct? Uh, the stop sign is in my front yard. Okay. The neighbors on the other side of that fence. Okay. So, you are the corner lot. I am the corner lot.

I have a picture without the fence and them two yelling at us. I took for for when the cops would come. So, this is what it was without the fence. and they're always pointing, swearing, and that's what it is. That's why we had to put that up. And can you talk a little bit about the expense of putting up the fence and what [clears throat] process you went through? Very expensive. Very expensive. I spent $8,000 on my fence. You said 8,000.

And what was the process just in general in terms of contractors? Yeah, we uh Pascal Fence Company uh they they put the side and over to the house in first that was 6,000 and this three-foot section here was another 1,800. Um when he came he was uh uh he was also pushed by pushed Badger the f what he did cuz he had our he measured out he measured out with our deed. He measured everything out and she would come out and just rip everything off and push him and he he was like, "I'm gone."

He pounded posts in, you know, at the property line. So we were inside. She'd come out, take them right out of the ground, throw them in the yard the next day. Yeah. There's a [clears throat] there you can see it from a different angle. [snorts] Do you know how long it is? I think you just mentioned that the front piece the three sections So this is free foot and what doesn't what is not the rest of your front yard that's not fenced that's like the rest do you have an idea even maybe 15t of 15 is fenced

it's uh let's see they're 8 foot sections so 3 24 so maybe another 15t to the road we had you had total three foot of it is Yes. Three sections. Yes. And you had to be what, 10 ft from the road, right? Yeah. That fence. And it was it it definitely is. Yes. There you can see the uh the line between us and 459. It's not a straight line. There you go. We made it a straight line even though it's not a straight line.

We actually brought it in. She, you know, I didn't even bring this up. Uh before we put the our fence up, they had a they actually had a fence up. It was a little three-foot wooden slat fence. Um and it was rotting and the slats would always fall on our yard. And that was what the reason why we decided to put the the back fence up. You know, it's just a [snorts] better look. How long did it take for the fence to be installed? They did it in a day.

Teddy, they knew that we needed it. So, they were there early in the morning and did it. Boom. I know you said there are other six foot fences in the neighborhood, but do any of the other fences are they behind or set up a similar way? Go to the picture. They're in their front yards also. See there's that's their front yard. That's their front yard.

That's a sixoot fence. That's their front yard. That's their front yard. That's a six foot high fence running [clears throat] between those two properties.

I wonder um sorry, but maybe spending costs too. Um variance is usually run the property. So if either of these neighbors really um or like if you know the applicant or the neighbors moved out the variance would still go with the property that there can be this um three foot fence you know that doesn't meet the code in the front yard. But we can put conditions on variances. Could we condition a variance that this is that if either the applicants or the neighbors right next door at whatever address we can find the exact address left then the variance would not be anymore. But to limit their variance to only so long as these two neighborhoods live

I'd be fine with that. experience is attached to beads, but it would have to be so when you we're going to pile I don't know how that works. I don't know if they're actually attached to beads or whatever, but my understanding it's variance.

I thought you can't put a condition related to like the person who's a time limited there's a But you can't make it to people. There's really is not supposed to be who's in the property. [clears throat]

Thank you. do not.

Oh yeah, sure. As for the planning department doing stat notes. Um, so the I think a lot of this was already covered some degree was installed without unusual. I'm not sure the reason to stop the order but it was issued at that point they filed for the permit um because of the nature of the work it was referred to planning department for consideration of capacity yard considerations so we were rejected um so just want to call attention to you know overarching principle variances the fit of the applicant is the detriment to the neighborhood or the community has established a clear benefit as far as the detriment to the community um you know the character of the neighborhood I would say is not inconsistent with the character of the neighborhood although it's not predominant characteristics either there are as shown there were other characteristics and in some cases there are landscaping features that purpose, you know, in terms of alternatives considered, that is one of them. Uh, it kind of suggests it does take time for plantings to fill in. So, the immediate sort of concern here could be accomplished by landscaping. Also, it sounds like there was some some other issues beyond that as well as police were consulted in the resolution suggest

some more subjective characteristics here but often times the purposes is privacy six proposal as well as impact on the neighborhood. um no substantial detriment to the environment that can be really established as far as we can see. Um the traffic issue was spoken to and I don't think there's any obstruction traffic there is sort of visual impairment arguably the character see the street but this is historicated area that nature itself created to a certain degree in the permit.

I think we do have both variances the criteria consideration. Um, can I ask you not specifically, but kind of what is the old park age of your neighbor? She's 61. She's 62. It's her and her daughter. Her daughter is a teacher here in 30. Yeah. Um, [clears throat] we were friends at one time, you know.

Y were really good friends. Would you entertain a motion? Sure. Any other questions? I move to approve AB 2518. Second. Um, I guess I wondering if we should add if there's I mean maybe we can vote on that, but I also wanted to put out there if we wanted to consider putting a time limit like 60 90 years kind of thing. It seems like that would cover the age of the neighbors.

90. Yeah. a 90 year time limit which I feel like in 90 years either of these neighbors would probably be offer [laughter]

um you vote you vote yes yes Yeah. Yes. So, all in favor is granted. Oh, yes. Sorry. Don't celebrate just yet. It's so nice though. I move that we approve area variance 195-9. Second. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Are we all set? Thank you guys so much for your time. We appreciate you. Thank you. God bless you all. [laughter]

Motion to move that we second. Uh uh all in favor [laughter] it is literally this thick.