Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Monday, December 15, 2025
Transcript
Video
Agenda

About this meeting

Government Body
Planning Commission
Meeting Type
Planning Commission
Location
Abingdon, VA
Meeting Date
December 15, 2025

Transcript

46 sections (from 211 segments)

6:45 – 7:310

Welcome to the town of Admonton, Virginia Planning Commission regular meeting December 15, 2025. We appreciate your interest and we encourage public participation in our meeting. Your comments are important to our decision-making process. Please note that there will be two opportunities during the meeting for you to address the commission members. First will come when we ask for public comment for items not on the agenda. The second will come when the chairman declares a public hearing open for comment. Uh in either case, the person addressing the planning commission should come to the podium, give your first and last name and your complete physical address. Comment should be limited to three minutes. Uh, roll call.

7:29 – 8:120

Mr. Austin, Mr. Johnson, present. Mr. Thompson, present. Mr. Pennington, present. Mr. Sprouls, present. Mr. Wilson, present. And Mr. Schuman, present. All right. Uh, next order of business is approval of the minutes for the November 24th, 2025 regular meeting. Are there any additions or corrections to the minutes? I I do have one. Uh during the meeting we discussed that uh the letter from Miss Homemaker would be attached or be part of the minutes and I think we we just need to make sure that that letter um is incorporated or at least attached to the minutes. Yeah, we will we will do that.

8:10 – 8:470

Are there any other additions or corrections? If not, is there a motion that the uh minutes be approved as amended? I'll make a motion to approve as amended. Okay. Is there a second? I'll second. All right. Any additional discussion? If not, if you would call the role. Mr. Johnson. I. Mr. Thompson. Abstain. Mr. Pennington. I. Mr. Sprouls. Hi. Mr. Wilson. I.

8:44 – 10:440

And Mr. Schuman. Hi. Next order of business is public comment for items not on the agenda. Is there anybody signed up? Is there anybody out there that wanted to make a comment on something that's not on the agenda? All right. If not, we'll move on to the first item. Certificate of appropriateness. Abington Fine Art and Praming applicant Three Rivers Development LLC owner and Jerry Signs representative. Certificate of appropriateness for legal non-conforming non-illuminated roof signage located at 293 West Main Street, Abington, Virginia 24210. Parenthesis parcel 011-1-81 in parenthesis staff report in fine art and framing applicant Three Rivers Development owner and Jerry Signs representative have requested approval of a certificate of appropriateness for the following ECCOA eligible items. Install a 10 foot by two foot, which is 20 square feet non-illuminated singleside acrylic sign with black background and applied white vinyl graphics within the existing legal non-conforming painted green steel roof sign cabinet structure attached to the primary south elevation. Install a 24 inch by 24 inch four square foot non-illuminated single-sided vinyl sign with white lettering onto the primary south door as shown in the rendering provided located at 293 West Main Street. The property is in the B3 district. Cedric property contains approximately.170 acres and is legally described as 289293 West Main Street. Tax map number 011-1-81. The subject property is located at 293 West Main Street. The existing building was constructed circa 1926 according to the Washington County Land Card. The

10:42 – 12:420

building is occupied by Abington Fine Art and Framing and an apartment. Access to the site will continue to be West Main Street and Wall Street. Adjoining properties to the north are zone old and historic district O subdist 2 residential focused. Adjoining properties to the east, south, and west are zone central business district B3. The applicant proposes the installation of a 10-ft by twoft foot 20 square foot non-illuminated single-sided acrylic sign, black background and applied white vinyl graphics within the existing legal non-conforming painted green steel roof sign cabinet structure attached to the primary south elevation as shown in the rendering provided. Per chapter 44, land use section 8-4-4-7 prohibited. Signs on the roof surface or extending above the roof line of a structure, building or parapet wall are prohibited. At the time of the adoption of the current ordinance, January 2023, this roof sign structure was existing per chapter 44 land use section 8-4-7-8-1 non-conforming signs. Signs existing prior to the adoption of an ordinance shall be considered legally non-conforming. However, there are restrictions on non-conforming signs. A a non-conforming sign shall not be enlarged, nor shall any feature of a non-conforming sign, including but not limited to illumination, be increased. The proposed roof sign will fit within the existing painted green steel roof sign cabinet structure and will not increase in size or by any other feature. B. A non-conforming sign shall not be moved for any distance on the same lot or to any other lot unless such change in location will make the sign meet all current requirements of this article. The proposed sign will be an exact location it has been and will not be relocated. A non-conforming sign that is destroyed or damaged by any casualty to an extent not exceeding 50% of its sign area may

12:40 – 14:110

be restored within two years after such destruction or damage, but shall not be enlarged in any manner. If such sign is destroyed or damaged to an extent exceeding 50%, it shall not be reconstructed but may be replaced with the sign that meets all current requirements of this article. If damaged, the 50% rule shall be examined when discussing replacement. The applicant also proposed the installation of a 24in x 24in twoft square two square foot non-elilluminated single-sided vinyl sign with white graphics onto the primary south door as shown in the rendering provided. Businesses in the B3 district may utilize 10% of total window door coverage per facade for window signage. The proposed window signage is four square feet. After the staff report was sent, the applicant did inform staff they would like to add an additional 12.5 square ft of window signage as shown in the rendering provided. That is the 6.25 25 square ft custom framing which is 75 in x 12 in on both the right and left main facade windows. Applicants have a total of 169.795 square ft available of overall window space and are allowed 16.979 square ft. The total of all signs are equal to 16.5 square ft and the sign ordinance is met. questions for Amber

14:07 – 14:400

comments, questions. All right. Thank you. Does the applicant want to make a statement? Can Daniel Jerry signs located at 15775 Porterfield Highway. I think Amber hit everything. I mean, I don't think there's anything additional to add. Any questions? Question. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

14:36 – 15:210

What's the pleasure of the commission? It is under the Yeah, we went out after we received uh notification from the applicant that they would like this custom framing on both windows, we went out and measured all the windows on there and including the door and everything and then we put all that together and it is under then 10%. And then the frame that's in the roof. Now, if they took down the whole structure, then we would be talk a different story because we don't want roof signs. But because they're just replacing the face in that already existing cabinet, it is all legal, non-conforming, and everything. So, everything meets the ordinance as it is right now.

15:22 – 15:460

I'd make a motion that we approve the application that's submitted. All right. Is there a second? I'll second. All right. Any additional discussion? Not if you would call the role. Mr. Mr. Johnson. Hi, Mr. Thompson. Hi, Mr. Pennington. Hi, Mr. Sprouls. Hi, Mr. Wilson. Hi, Mr. Schuman.

15:43 – 17:430

Hi. Next order business certificate of appropriateness Stacy and Katherine Hayton applicant representative and 3H holdings LLC owner certificate of appropriateness for external repairs and legal nonconforming non-eluminated roof signage located at 445 West Main Street Abby in Virginia 24210 parenthesis parcel 019-1-1 in parenthesis staff report Stacy and Katherine Hatton, applicant and 3Holdings LLC owner, have requested approval of the following items. Install three exterior 7.4 in by 9.21 in Atlas commercial LED lights with adjustable brightness on the east and west elevations as shown in the rendering provided. Paint the exposed cinder block on the east and west elevations a tan color to match the existing vinyl siding as shown in the rendering provided. Replace the existing painted brown metal fascia K-style gutters and rectangular downspouts with painted brown metal fascia Kstyle gutters and rectangular downspouts to match existing. Reface the existing 11t 8 and 1/8 in by 3' 10 1/2 in 45.25 25 square ft non-illuminated single-sided aluminum sign with blue background and applied white vinyl graphics onto the existing legal non-conforming roof sign structure attached to the primary south elevation as shown in the rendering provided. The subject property contains approximately 610 acres and is legally described as part of boundary adjustment of the PDQ Holdings tax map number 019-1. Generally, the subject property is located at 445 West Main Street. The existing building was constructed circa

17:41 – 19:390

1999. According to the Washington County Land Card, the building is occupied by Abington Lorama. Access to the site will continue to be West Main Street and Academy Drive. Joining properties reson B3 on all sides. Applicant has requested approval of the following items. Install three exterior 7.4 in by 9.21 two 1-in Atlas commercial LED lights with adjustable brightness on the east and west elevations as shown in the rendering provided per chapter 44 land use article 8 community design standards section one lighting security lighting is allowed provided is directed downward does not glare onto adjacent property and is controlled and activated by motion sensor devices for a duration of 15 minutes or less. Paint the exposed cinder block on the east and west elevations of a Navajo white semi- gloss enamel to match the existing vinyl sighting as shown in the rendering provided. Replace the existing painted brown metal fascia K-style gutters and rectangular downspouts with painted brown metal fascia Kstyle gutters and rectangular downspouts to match existing Last, reface the existing 11 foot 8 and 1/2 in by 3 foot 10 and 1/2 inch 45.25 square ft non-illuminated single-sided aluminum sign with black was with blue background and applied white vinyl graphics onto the existing legal non-conforming roof sign structure attached to the primary south elevation as shown in the rendering provided. Per chapter 44 of the land use section 8-4-4-7 prohibited signs on the roof surface or extending above the roof line are

19:37 – 21:030

prohibited. At the time of the adoption of the current ordinance in January 2023, this roof sign structure was existing per chapter 44 land use section 8-4-7-1 non-conforming signs. Signs existing prior to the adoption shall be considered legally non-conforming. However, there are restrictions on non-conforming signs. Will a non-conforming sign shall not be enlarged, nor shall any feature of a non-conforming sign include but not limited to illumination be increased. The proposed sign will fit within the existing sign footprint and will not increase in size or by other features. Two, a non-conforming sign shall not be moved for any distance on the same lot or to any other lot unless such change in location will make the sign meet all current requirements of this article. The proposed sign will be an exact location it has been and will not be relocated. Three, a non-conforming sign that is destroyed or damaged by any casualty to an extent not exceeding 50% of its sign area may be restored within two years after such destruction or damage, but not shall not be enlarged in any manner. If damage, the 50% rule shall be examined when discussing replacement. in the uh pictures that were shown, there's um there are signs or at least drawings on the windows. Um and

21:00 – 21:380

so those are essentially the seasonal type murals that don't depict anything related to the business. So, if there was a washing machine painted on there or laundry detergent or something like that, then we would look at that as signage. But since it's just strictly seasonal, I think it's the three wise men done by a spot of color, uh, we're not considering that signage. It's just a seasonal temporary mural. Okay. Y other questions for Amber. Um, as far as the lighting that's being installed, y

21:36 – 22:180

I I don't see where it specifies that the lighting being installed, you know, complies with the motion sensing requirements. So, the the specific light itself, yeah, what they're setting up that it's going to be triggered by, you know, motion sensor. Okay. You know, and then, you know, will turn off automatically within that 15 minutes. Okay. That might be a question for the applicant. I'm sure they'd be amanable to change the light if needed. I think we we can either ask the or require it as part of our we

22:16 – 22:370

part of the land use standard. So I mean we could say that right make that a requirement. Um, other questions for Amber. Does the applicant want to say anything? Make a presentation.

22:40 – 23:120

My name is Stacy Hayden. I have my wife Katherine with me. Uh, we're the owners of 3H Holdings and Lorama located at 445 West Main Street here in Abington. Um, as far as the lighting question, uh, I wasn't aware of the motion sensor, uh, requirement, but was certainly willing to comply with that. We just want to improve the look, but also the safety of the building. Questions for the applicant. Thank you.

23:09 – 23:540

Thank you. What's the pleasure of the commission? What do we want to do? I make a motion we approve the COA as submitted with the provision that the lighting be motion detected or activated um so that it complies with uh chapter 44. All right. Is there a second to that motion? Yeah, I'll second it. Okay. Any additional discussion? Not if you would call the role. Mr. Johnson. I Mr. Thompson. Hi, Mr. Pennington. I Mr. Sprouls. Hi, Mr. Wilson. Hi,

23:530

Mr. Schuman. Hi.

23:55 – 25:550

Next order business certificate of appropriateness. Kroger limited partnership one. Applicant representative and Young Investment Company owner certificate of appropriateness for demol demolition of existing fuel center kiosk canopy and associated tanks, piping and equipment of the old Kroger gas station located at 484 Street Abington and Virginia 24210 parenthesis parcel 020-10-2 in parentheses staff The Kroger Limited Partnership applicant representative and Young Investment Company owner have requested approval of a certificate of appropriateness for the demolition of the existing fuel center kiosk canopy and associated takes piping and equipment of the old Kroger gas station located at 484 Street. Tax map 020-10-2. Property is within the general business district B2. The subject property contains 2.3 acres and is legally described as Young Property Replat acre 2.297. The subject property is located at 484 Street. According to the Washington County Land Card, the existing building was constructed circa 2013 and was previously known as the Kroger gas station. The structure is currently vacant and for lease. Access to the site will continue to be West Main Street and Wall Street. Adjoining properties to the north are zone general business district B2. Adjoining properties to the east and south are zone medium density R2. Adjoining properties to the west are zone highdensity residential R3. The applicant proposes the demolition of the existing fuel center kiosk, canopy, and associated tanks, piping, and equipment of the old Kroger gas station located at 484 Street. Per chapter 44 land

25:52 – 26:340

use section 5-3-4, a certificate of appropriateness is required to erect, construct, reconstruct, alter, restore, move, or demolish a building within the entrance corridor. That's all I have. Does the applicant want to make a presentation? The question I have is once that's done, what happens next? I mean, in other words, is that going to be paved over? Is it I mean what's I understand all that's going to be gone

26:33 – 27:020

but what's going to be done with the surface of the area after that's all removed? We have no official plans that have been submitted into us. Yeah. Well, I guess even with nothing built there, my question is you take all that up, you've got areas where there's going to be are they going to pave that over? Are you going to like reconrete it or pave it over? Are you saying just are you just fill it in is what you're saying? Yeah. Are they reclaiming the property?

27:00 – 27:400

Yeah. Uh that's something in your motion. I since they're taking all the tanks out everything, they're going to have to fill in the holes and everything with that. Um but it's well within your motion. If you want to put, you know, to rec fill in with concrete anywhere to make it a uniform surface, you can do that. I mean, what does the applicant do you all have any idea or can you provide any insight as to what the plans are once that's removed? How are you reclaiming the site? Yeah, that's that's I don't care what's we know don't know what's built there, but I'm like you. I want to know what the site's going to look like when they're going to be a big mud pit.

27:38 – 28:190

Yeah, that's exactly my concern. I'm Paul Sher, the contractor that applied for the demo permit for Kroger. Uh our job is to remove the canopy, the kiosk, remove the fuel tanks, take a concrete up, all pavement remains, and the we put back 21A poke meal stone back on a whole site back to surface level. And that is what's in my contract to do at this present time. Are you pulling up the drains?

28:17 – 28:480

We would be pulling the drain up. I I took a look at that and I feel like it needs to come up to where the water would sheet flow on across the lot. Okay. But everywhere we're seeing concrete, you're going to have pug mill. Exactly. Yeah. No asphalt will be removed. Well, that you're going to have areas that are paved after you remove that. Yeah. But whole center and that's pretty typical though. I mean,

28:47 – 29:180

every time I've ever seen a gas station go, they put gravel back and there's no reason to put concrete there because the next guy is going to have to tear it up anyway. Well, the question is though, I mean, I'm more worried about aesthetics between now and what happens because we don't have any proposal for anything that's going to come after gravel. I mean, it'll be pile of gravel be the same surface.

29:16 – 30:000

And then one of the questions I've got is I appreciate your question. Um, but as long as they've got gravel back, if there's any erosion or anything of that nature, that's going to fall to a different division within the town than planning commission. The uh the drop in it don't show in that picture, but that trench drain leads into a manhole drop type drop inlet. Yes, sir. That drop in will remain. The only the only thing that we would be taking up would be the trench drain itself. But you're going to have water coming down to the French drain and then in all likelihood either sheet flowing over onto the pug mill. That's correct.

29:58 – 30:250

Um because everything right now is sloped towards the drain. Mhm. So and that's that's something we could you know we could leave the trench drain if it you know if people would prefer that. We don't have a problem working around a trench drain and leaving it. I I'm not sure it's really within this our scope. you know, to to look at that. Um,

30:23 – 30:570

I'm just I'm just concerned about approving something that doesn't look good after it's done. I mean, that's, you know, then you would end up somebody would end up having to fix that and there would be a cost associated with that. It seems to me if that was the case that we should not be approving that unless we know that what's left there is I mean, I understand there's not built there. Yes, sir. But I also don't want it to be an isol.

30:53 – 31:330

Well, no. And I think as Mr. Wilson pointed out in the normal force whenever you are uh demoing sites of this nature, you're going to put and pug mill. Whenever you're going to roll the pug mill, we're going to compact the uh tank pit back. We're going to actually bring a concrete crusher on site. We're going to crush all the concrete into into a 2 inch minus material. Use it to compact back in the fuel tank. Yes, sir. Voids is we're going to remove all canopy footers and compact the crushed concrete in it.

31:29 – 32:030

The top 10 in of surface will be put back with 21A poke meal from a quarry. will not be any crushed concrete showing within a top 10 in and whenever that's compacted um you'll have water hit that and then some will settle but also some will go across but the way everything is sloped I'm not sure it wouldn't be a good idea to leave the drains to give the water someplace to go well you know we can easily leave them that won't be a problem

32:01 – 32:330

I think that's more your all's call than it is ours Well, I think you we can require that. I mean, I think in terms of what we want to see what's left, you know, again, I think that's incumbent upon the people doing the work and we don't want that to come be if you left that, then you're going to help with any erosion or anything of that nature. That that would catch a lot of the surface water coming from Fiddler's Restaurant. Yes, sir.

32:31 – 33:160

In that direction and divert it to the drop inlet. You know, we we were just looking at at one time it was talk about paving it, but then for whatever reason the pavement got removed from our scope. I hate to see it go. I mean, I wish somebody else would. That's where I got my fuel. Yeah. But, uh, certainly understand. You want to put your motion? I make a motion the COA be approved as submitted with provision that uh the French drains um or the drains, excuse me, um stay in place to collect the water.

33:15 – 34:000

Okay. And then you're going to be grading that the pug mill is going to be at grade level with the asphalt. Yes, sir. That'll be smooth road. Yes. So, it's compacted. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Is there a second to that motion? Does everybody understand the motion? Okay. Is there a second to that motion? I'll I'll second. Okay. Any additional discussion? If not, if you would call the role. Mr. Johnson. I. Mr. Thompson. I. Mr. Mr. Pennington. Hi, Mr. Sprouls. Hi, Mr. Wilson. Hi,

33:590

Mr. Schuman. Hi.

34:02 – 36:020

Next order business. Certificate of appropriateness. Jennifer D and Edward C. Hobs. Applicant owner. Certificate of appropriateness for exterior oak dates located at 60260460 and 608 West Main Street, Abington, Virginia 24210. parenthesis parcel018-15-26 in parentheses staff report Jennifer D and Edward C Hobbs the applicant owner have requested approval of a certificate of appropriateness for the following ECCA eligible items one paint the exposed brick on the north elevation southwest Sher Sherwin Williams 7562 Roman column white if funds allow paint the entire building Resurface approximately 60 ft of sidewalk running along the primary north facade of the brick veneer building. Add benches and landscaping pots as shown in the rendering provided. Located at 60260460 and 608 West Main Street tax map number 018-15-26. Properties within the general business district B2. The subject property contains approximately.160 acres and is legally described as lots 26 27 28-29 acre.16 Twin States warehouse tax map number 018-15-26. Generally the subject property is located at 602604 606 and 608 West Main Street. According to the Washington County Land card, the existing building was constructed circa 1964. The building has for four units which are currently occupied by Heavenbound Worship Center, Lion's Main, Herden, and Headlines and Co. Unit 602 is currently for lease, but was previously occupied by La Miko Aana. Access to the site will

36:00 – 37:010

continue to be West Main Street. Adjoining properties to the or north, east, and west are zone central business district B3. Adjoining properties to the south are zone highdensity residential R3. The applicants have requested approval of a certificate of appropriateness for the following. One, paint the exposed brick of the primary north facade brick veneer building. A Sherwin Williams 7562 Roman column white. And if funds allow, paint the entire building. Resurface approximately 60 ft of sidewalk running along the primary north facade of the brick veneer building. It's right there located in the front. Add benches and landscaping pots as shown in the rendering provided. The f flower pots would be in front of the windows and the benches on either side of the building. And the applicant is here if you have any questions for them. Have any questions for Amber?

37:02 – 38:190

Does the applicant want to say anything? Welcome to if you want to. Good evening. I'm Jennifer Hobbs, owner of 602 608 West Maine. In seeking to improve the facade of my business, uh I think it would really really add a lot to it to spruce up that brick and and make it kind of pop. It's kind of kind of drab through there. Uh, but I would like to um possibly paint the whole building. Um, I don't know. Um, I did put this the color down that I preferred. There is a possibility if I'm able to paint the the remainder of the building that I might do like an alternate color of like a, you know, a gray or, you know, to, you know, not have it all the same color. just have the front part the lighter color and then the back part a, you know, darker neutral color. Um, but I'm still talking with my um my painter and waiting for an estimate for all that. So,

38:19 – 38:520

other questions for the applicant. Looks like to me this is a an improvement to what's there. I think it would definitely It would certainly be nice to have a whole building repainted, you know, just besides the fact weather. Yes. And I just after seeing those pictures, those of what it looks like now, I'm like, "Oh, yeah. We need to do this. Really make it look much cleaner."

38:55 – 39:070

Any other questions for the applicant? All right. Thank you. What's the pleasure of the commission?

39:16 – 39:560

I'll make a motion that we approve the COA as presented to repaint and spruce up the bed. All right. Is there a second to that? I'll second that. All right. Any additional discussion? If not, if you would call the role. Mr. Johnson, I. Mr. Thompson, I. Mr. Pennington, I. Mr. Sprouls. Hi. Mr. Wilson. Hi. Mr. Schuman. Hi. All right. Uh, business matters not on the agenda. Discussion entrance quarter expansion on Porterfield Highway. Yes, I'll take I'll take that one. I know we've talked about that some.

39:52 – 40:440

Yep. So, now that we've got a full team back in the in the planning and zoning department, uh we're looking to if the board still has the desire to do this expansion of the entrance corridor, we're and you know with if you give us the yes, we're still interested right here uh tonight. We'll send out certified mailers to those property owners um for January and that that'll just be kind of a heads up like hey, this is coming. if they have any questions, they can come and reach out to us if they have any inquiries or anything like that. And then the month of February is when we would officially start the full process in terms of public doning, certified mailers, all this stuff. We want to give people enough time that have those that own those properties that may be reszoned depending on what happens ample time to come in and ask any questions that they may have.

40:42 – 41:230

Now, ultimately, there'll be a public hearing. So, I'll make those. Yes. Yeah. This would this would be a uh zoning map amendment because you'd be extending the entrance corridor over there. We want to get uh we're giving them January where we're going to do certified mailers to make sure that they get them. Give them a month really two months to ask us enough questions or or to come in during even public comment for things not on the agenda to ask here as well. Uh so this way when we get to February everybody's had enough time to really look at what's what would be involved. So, question. Have you uh or is the town um identified a vendor for the comprehensive plan yet? How?

41:21 – 41:400

No, no. Yeah, I'll be working on the um RFP over the break. So, I'll be doing that since I'll be going home, but I'll be working on that. And then uh as you may know, uh your t Mr. Schuman and Mr. Wilson's term was extended to December 2026. Okay.

41:38 – 42:310

Since it only should only take eight months really to do it. So since we have a pretty good plan in place. Um so yeah, I'll be writing that up and then we'll be identifying a vendor and everything. Uh probably um so we can do those introductions. I know Mr. Thompson, you've asked me about them. I'm gonna be looking at when the different boards that happen like the historic preservation review board, the economic development, all those other ones to see when their next meetings come up at this coming new year and see when their first available one is. And I'll be sending emails out to whoever picked for those meetings to meet with them and just be more of an intro saying, "Hey, we're here to listen, see what you feel we need to incorporate in the comp plan." And so this way we can start that process of getting familiarized with everybody. So

42:29 – 43:140

sound that sounds good. I think for the introduction, if there's a work session with the um council, that would be a good time to discuss the introduction. Yep. Um all right. Any other questions or comments? If not, is there a motion that we adjourn? I I think we got I think that's a thumbs up for you guys. Okay. So, we'll continue with that. We'll send them out in January and we'll go from there and then February would be the unless we have any major push back. February we'll shoot to actually start the process. So, all right. Is there a motion that we adjourn? So, move.

43:12 – 43:260

Is there a second? Okay. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Guys, have a good Christmas. You too. I tell you what.

This transcript was automatically generated from the official public meeting video and is presented unedited. It reflects remarks made on the public record by elected officials, staff, and public commenters. Transcript accuracy may vary; view the original recording for reference.