Remarks by Chris Robertson
791 remarks on the record, newest first · Page 28 of 32
“The city clerk created the appeal form. Yes. So when people appeal, how come that has not been handed to them? How come when the chief building official goes and makes that determination, or code enforcement, how come they're not given that appeal form?”
“Dan, let's go back to the beginning. We're not gonna go too much in the weeds, but I really wanna talk about how problematic this is, because this thing was created in 1994. Has this board ever been set since 1994?”
“Okay, but it was a hearing since you've been city attorney, but you weren't here in 1994. You were here in 1998, right? Yeah. All right, so the four years prior, do we know? I mean, we've got to have records of the city, right, of meetings. It's not that long ago. I mean, it was 32 years ago.”
“I would assume, but why hasn't this board been set every year? Like, what stopped, just like these other boards that we sit every year?”
“Um, so, um, yeah, but I don't think once, and we, we didn't get any applicants and that of course, 1994, that was, um, 15 years before he adopted 2009. Right.”
“That's when you started using the IPMC code.”
“How many days in a court, according to the 2009 IPM. So IPMC code does a citizen have to appeal? So let's just say this guy, whoever that park is, we hit them with the chief building official. Bob goes out there and does this or that and says, you got to do this. And they want to appeal it.”
“Let's say they're appealing the chief billing official's decision and it's something related to that. That allows them to appeal it. It'll be on the form. So when they get the form, what's the amount of days that they have to turn that form in?”
“That's IPMC, but did we adopt that? B101, did we adopt that in the 2021 IPMC?”
“And that's okay because the city's got it right. But the city says 15 days. If we look up the city code, it says 15 days, but IPMC is 20 days. The 2009 IPMC is 20 days. The 2015 where citizens were hit with the 2015, all those years says 20 days, 20 days.”
“It's right online. Let's go ahead. I've got it right here. Do we want to go into this now? But I will tell you, the 2015, a lot of citizens were hit with the 2015, but it was never adopted by the city of St. Cloud. We went straight from the 2009 to the 2021. Nobody, Dan, you, me, and a few others understand this. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. was never adopted by the city of St. Cloud, but I gotta tell ya, I got about 50 cases right here. 2015 IPMC that's code that was never adopted by the city of St. Cloud. How can we hit people with code that's never been adopted by the city of St. Cloud? If…”
“Uh, no, we're talking about the 2015. Okay. So it would have to be 2015 up until at least 2021. Cause that's when you got, uh, maybe even then it goes back and forth. Sometimes staff would use 2015. Sometime they use 2021, then they go back to 15.”
“But you know who the same person is. You got Jack up there, and Jack should know the law. You had Jack during these. That's the constant. Jack should know, which is why you know that when I first got on here, I wanted you to be up there because I do not believe Jack's competent in these cases. I do not believe he represented the city of St. Cloud well. And I got to tell you, I went through this process as a citizen, and we all know this. Let's call it out for what it is. The IPMC, if we adopted the 2009 IPMC, it says you got 20 days. But that's not on a B101 appendix. That's actually 101.…”
“No, I'm I'm saying, what is it now? I don't have that one. It, what has it been? Why is it 15 on the website? When did it change to 15 from 20? Or why was it never changed to 20 on the website? And why is your chief billing official hitting people saying they got 20 days? Walk me through this process. Somebody gets hit with this code.”
“If they're not given that form, because it actually says, it says that the appeal has to be written has to be submitted on the notice that is the form from the code official. So I contacted Deb Clark, who was your city clerk in charge of the boards, and I said, Deb, walk me through this. How do I appeal this? I believe that was day 18, maybe 19 of that. That becomes the 420. I don't know if y'all know that or not. I inquired about that, and she sent me this. This is actually from her email to me in April 2019. And here's the actual email. She says, Hi, Chris.”
Not quoted here: it may name a member of the public. Hear it at the meeting.
“It doesn't matter. You guys pay the insurance company, pays the attorney. Sir.”
“The city of St. Cloud, Dan. I'm saying the city of St. Cloud. Thank you. I'm not here to fight with you, but you know what happened. You know how this went down. And so I'm asking you, is this the process? Is it 15 days or is it 20? I want you on the record to tell me what our code is.”
“How is it that? How is it that? But it's not that. I will bet you a million dollars it's not that. It's 20 days. When did you guys change it? When you guys went from, you were here in 2009, the last time you changed the code or the IPMC was 2023.”
“Under that section again, but then you adopted the 2009 IPMC, which changes that to 20 days.”
“What is the code? When the city council votes to adopt language in the code, I don't care what Muni code says. It is what actually happened in the meetings. And three years ago wasn't a long time ago. And neither was 2009. And I can show you the full agenda packets. I can show you everything that was adopted. And it's 20 days. You adopted the 2009 IPMC right here.”
“You adopt in its entirety unless you want to change things because you adopted all of this.”
“Okay. So why would the chief building official, when he goes and does this and cuts the power lines, puts 20 days? I can't answer that question. I'm going to put this on the screen. That's March 27.”
“I had a question too. And we can do that, but I want to clarify this. That is March 2019. Can you go to the last page, please? Second page. Go to the second page first. That is the International Property Maintenance Code. The next one, sorry, after that. Right there. IPMC. See all that? There's the acronym. You see the bottom, means of appeal. Can you zoom in a little bit, please? Application for appeal, any person directly affected by a decision of the code official or a notice under this code shall have the right to appeal to the Board of Appeals provided that a written application for…”
“Well, how would they not be? That's signed. Would you say that that's appropriate? If you're saying, Dan, the code is 15 days, would you say that letter from the chief building official copied to you? I see your name on there, too, and Terry Sparkman. Do you think that that's appropriate and illegal? Do I think it's correct? Do you think that's correct?”