City Council - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Dias. Next person assigned to speak, Mayor Paul Coogan, 90 Williamson Street, regarding the budget.

Thank you. Councilman C4, Council Vice President Dionne.

I'm trying to be calm, because I am not calm today.

I am not calm, so I am trying really hard. So, I was in the meeting on Thursday afternoon. You, president, myself, city administrator, the CFO, and the director of human resources. We thought we reached a compromise. We talked about an MOA. I understand that the administration keeps saying, it's the 40,000, it's the 40,000, it's the 40,000. We have brought up other issues. We had a problem with the EMS stabilization account. We reduced that number, which made the budget unbalanced. It had to be balanced. We're still discussing transportation. And I find it very interesting. So there's a meetin

At one of our meetings, and I don't remember which one it was, but I'm sure you'll remember, not necessarily the meeting, but the conversation. I don't remember if it was on Thursday or if it was prior to that when I was there with Counselor Canual. I don't remember.

Point of clarification, if I may, please.

Counselor in C2, your point of clarification.

When my colleague in C4 says, what of our meetings? What meetings are we talking about? We talking about council meetings? We talking about committee meetings? We talking about a meeting that's just been somewhere arranges to have with the mayor? Just what kind of meeting we're talking about?

I will clarify. I will answer that. You have every reason to ask that question. So some of us attended budget meetings. So I don't know if this happened in one of the budget meetings or if it happened in the meeting that we had with them on Thursday afternoon.

So the meeting you had on Thursday afternoon wasn't a budget meeting or was it just a?

No, it wasn't a budget meeting. Well, I suppose it sort of was.

Okay, so there was a meeting between the councils to discuss the budget.

If I may interject for a moment, we are in citizen's input right now.

I understand that, but it's my only opportunity to ask him these questions.

Go ahead, say what you want to say. No, no, I just wanted to urge the council, are we going to waive the rules? We should introduce the item. If the mayor is here to stay for this, I think it would be important. He's here, councilors have to ask questions, so can we introduce the item? Mayor, would you be able to stay here and answer questions that the councilors have, because a number of them have questions? Or are we going to waive the rules of citizen's input? What's the will? All right, we'll ask you to stay if you can for the deliberations.

But I'm here for the duration. If I may, I'm going to give you the floor back.

No, I will yield if we're going to do that. He's going to come back to the table. I have no problem with that.

Thank you. I'm going to acknowledge you first, Councillor. Thank you. By the way, for the record, citizens input, there's no other individuals assigned to speak. Next item on our agenda, Madam Clerk.

Motion to address the appropriation line by line.

Motion to address the appropriation order line by line has been made by council vice president to hear is seconded by Council of Peckham discussion members of the administration please come to the table I'd like to acknowledge our council vice president seat for first. Anna, please introduce yourself for the record, please.

Thank you. Councilman Seafork, Council Vice President Deon.

So I want to go back to that meeting because I will say an agreement was, a compromise was reached. I don't want to use the wrong words. A compromise was reached. Council President and myself made it very clear. We can't bind this body to a decision. that we had to take everything back to the council. I went so far as to say neither one of us can talk to the entire council. We had to split the council up so that we didn't violate any open meeting laws or anything else. And everybody understood that, that when we walked out of that office, that was not a, we didn't, it was not a sign sealed and

So it, okay. but it was contingent upon this body voting and agreeing and a corporation council signing the MOA. And that, to date, to this minute, has not happened. So the contingency was not met. It's not you and it's not us stopping this for $40,000. The corporation refusing to sign the MOA is what's stopping our move forward movement. And I'm going to call it forward movement because that's what we agreed to. We can try to move forward. We, in good faith, want to move forward.

Actually, we had a conference call, you, the President, myself, and Mr. McElhinney on Friday morning, which was the day after we met with all of you, and in that conversation, I brought it up again, contingent upon, but in that conversation is when the subject of form and content came up. And it was Mr. McElhinney who said he was willing to sign in form and content. And at that point, I said, wait a minute, hold the phone. Form and content isn't good enough. And Nick said, well, that's, Mr. McElhinney said, that's how he signs all legal documents. I said, I understand that. And I understand at

And I'm telling you, and believe me, I will give you credit for your efforts. I truly do. And I want people to know you did make an effort. But so did we. We're not done moving yet.

But I think the issue is more not about moving forward. It's more there were contingencies, and they weren't met. So it's not the council refusing. It's contingencies weren't met. And you also did say, we're going to send you a draft MOA, which you did. YOU DID. AND YOU LOOK AT IT, YOU LOOK IT OVER, YOU TWEAK IT, YOU CHANGE ANYTHING YOU WANT, AND YOU SEND IT BACK TO US. CORRECT. AND WE DID.

And we did agree. Yes, you can keep it in the law department budget. And we compromise. Correct. Your compromise was keep it in that budget. Our compromise was let's have an MOA. So that outlines exactly how it moves forward, what is able to be done, what isn't, so that it would be in writing so that everybody would know exactly the details of how we would be able to use legal. But unfortunately, again, I go back to our cooperation council is not willing to do that.

And I agree with you. So at this point, I would also like to emphasize, because the world is convinced it's the city council being stubborn, it's only the $40,000, and it is not. And I know there are councils here tonight who want to speak. They want to address their issues. I have something myself that I want to address with transportation. So yes, we're not done with budget talks. I just wanted to clarify, and it's much better for you and I to sit face to face so everybody can hear our dialogue. So it's not he said, she said. Misconstrued, I just wanted everything to be clear for everyone.

I agree. I agree. Again, we agree. So before we go line by line in the budget, I would like councils to be able to talk about their concerns with the budget if we can do it that way.

Sure. There's a number of councils who have to speak. Thank you. Councilor in seat one, Councilor Kadeem. Thank you.

So one, thank you for being here. Uh, two, I just want to say the characterization as petty politics over $40,000 is extremely disingenuous and ignores the broader issues that have, um, been raised by the council. And I, I, for one, I won't speak for any other counselor. I've, I've got no confidence in corporation council and I'd, I'd be willing to take a vote of no confidence for the entire, uh, the entire office to have an opinion drafted without again, us even requesting an opinion two hours before a meeting. I requested it. Okay. They didn't do that out of the blue. I understand that.

And I appreciate that, but our conversation was on Friday.

Not Tuesday. So the first thing I would say is I want clarification because in here it says this isn't the first time that's before us. We rejected the budget. Correct. Flat out rejected the budget. So is this issue that's before us the first time it's before the city council? Yes. Okay. I'm going to ask the CFO in terms of budgets. Can you have a budget without an appropriation?

Can you have a budget without an appropriation?

You need an appropriation, okay. Do you think Corporation Counsel should know that you need an appropriation in order to have a budget? I mean, is that like Finance 101? Is that Municipal Law 101?

No, I mean, if Corporation Counsel has given us an opinion on something, one would assume right, that the biggest part of any municipal operation is a budget. That in order to have a budget, you need to have an appropriation, right? So I would assume that every attorney who practices municipal law would understand that. So the question that's before us as to whether or not what school department vote we're going to take, the first budget we rejected, there was no appropriation. In the second paragraph, it says the city council thereafter considered the proposed budget at multiple meetings. Dur

Your point of order, council? What appropriation was approved?

We did not approve the school department budget. No, we did not. On June 3rd, you did. No, we did not. Listen, hear me out. We approved a line item. The line item was the school department budget. the appropriation was never changed or reduced to fund the school department so we skipped a step not even realizing we skipped it and because we skipped that step and it was never funded we never approved the school department budget that's correct that's where i was that's where i was going that's exactly where no it's okay that's that's you clarified it but that that's

That's exactly where I was going. So there was no appropriation that was ever submitted. So there was no budget. So the entire budget was rejected. So again, when we're having an illegal opinion coming before us saying that there was a budget approved, I'd like to know how there wasn't a budget that was approved with zero appropriation. There wasn't a single dollar that was appropriated to any line item of that initial budget. budget was rejected it came back before us we rejected again the budget is not before us so for us to even again this this flies in the face of taking away the authority

Right. And so, one, I can't get an opinion from another community. That's one. So, I mean, corporation council can get an opinion.

Right. So, I mean, we can have those conversations, but the draft agreement that we have starts off, number one, authority of corporation council. Pursuant to Section 2-527 and 2-528, the Code of the City of Fall River and Administration Act through Corporation Council remains the only authority authorized to legally bind the City of Fall River. We've acknowledged that. We've asked for an appropriation. We've asked for a good faith resolution. We've asked that the City Council draft a policy. The selection of the city council was clearly outlined. He has a seat at the table, but the ultimate d

This draft, Mr. Mayor, with all due respect, is a pretty straight, clear, straightforward. He's just refusing to sign it. He's not going to sign it. And that's fine. That's you. You you are ultimately the mayor. You are you are the individual who ultimately has control of every single department that's before us. If you want this way to get signs, the mayor says it gets signs, right? So if corporation council refuses to sign it because of some type of law he says that he's read somewhere that I've asked for the last month and a half, and he's yet to provide it to any of the city councilors, th

Mid-April. Mid-April. When's the budget due?

May 15. So we have a $484 million budget. And the first time we have conversations with department heads is mid April a month before that it's due. So now, I'm getting I'm getting accused of extorting the city for $40,000. Okay, that's on that's on public radio. I'm getting accused of having secret meetings with Cliff at his restaurant because I can't God forbid I go to Al Max diner and have some breakfast. Right. Okay. I am being accused that we've we've got deadlines to me. yet the administration meets with department heads a month before the budget is submitted and then when we try to get r

This new appropriation order that's before us for the first time?

Which, again, I haven't really reviewed because I haven't had the time to review it. So I don't know why. But do you understand where I'm coming from, though, in terms of you're submitting budgets to us. You're telling us we need to vote on stuff. And it's like the things are not done. The time frames are not met. But we're the ones that are getting blamed for it. Well, that's the narrative that's being spun. And I just don't appreciate it, because it's not the $40,000. It's the $40,000, it's the transportation, it's the questions on the health care, it's the $450,000, which you have there. It's the items on the indirect costs that we haven't seen. There's a number of things.

So I've got a number of questions. I just haven't had time, so I'll yield to my colleagues to have this discussion, but I just want to be very, very clear that it's not just the 40,000, but I will still stand by that if we don't have $40,000 in the city council budget that I will be In my opinion, my personal vote, I will not be supporting the budget. This is the only opportunity, quote Matt Thomas, the power of the purse strings. This is the only time we have the control to be able to get what we need. I have no confidence in Corporation Council. I asked for $100,000 reduction in salaries, ha

Good evening. How are you? Can we find out right now what's up with the McKinney-Vento question? Do we have a response to that? Because that makes a big deal.

Well, then you shouldn't have called this meeting.

Am I right or am I wrong? You're wrong. I'm wrong? You should have called this meeting even though she's got somewhere to be and shouldn't be here tonight?

Well, that's fine. Yes, she should be. She's a chief financial officer. I understand. And she shouldn't have made plans during budget season, just like I couldn't. But she relied on people. Well, that's fine, and I relied on myself being here to pass a $490 million budget. We appreciate it. You're welcome. So I'm going to touch upon the $40,000. I think we've had this conversation. I really don't care about it. I have many more issues than that 40,000 that everybody keeps talking about. But I'm going to touch upon why I have those problems, and I want to tell you a story since you're sitting r

Yeah, well, listen, leaders don't rush things through, especially when they're the helm of a ship called a municipality. Okay, this is the largest budget this city has ever seen. All right. So now you know where I stand from, right? I'm looking out for people like my mother and all of these people in the city of Fall River that you forget about.

Yep. Unfortunately, some more than others. No, no. Yes. Yes. And this is frustrating. So I'm gonna I'm gonna move on, Mr. Mayor. It's my opinion, but it's great. It's quite proven. Believe me. Miss up. Let me ask you a question without one time money. Could you balance this budget?

Thank you. So if we didn't approve that transfer to the Diamond Stabilization Fund, where would we be right now? Just fiscally, where would we be? If we didn't have the $4 million, where were you going to pull it from?

Now what about the other $150,000 in free cash? I'm going to add that on top of it. Where are we getting that from? Actually, let me sum it up, I guess, easier. How do we look in FY28? I'm actually going to direct that question to you, Mr. Mayor. Do you know what we look like going into FY28?

And what is it at today? I think I asked the last thing.

And where does our debt service stand for FY28?

All right, so if we have local receipts that are like leveling off at 1.6 or 1.8, where are we getting the money to pay for all of this next year?

So the point I'm getting at here, I guess, the marijuana money. So that's another question I have. That's an increase of $100,000. I think you said that's because of the...

And that's not with Diamond and that's not with Conley.

So with Conley, that's another 1.8 or 2.2, roughly, if we go 20 years at 4%. Yeah. So to add that to the Conley bill, so that's another 6.8. Potentially, yes. Roughly on top of this. correct and again i don't have those numbers but it's and it's not set in that sense so that's why i didn't include that in that i just think we're burying ourselves i do i really do you wouldn't say this is a structural deficit we just got the million from ems that you tried to put in there like it just i tried to put in there from the cost of the indirect agreement yes yes i i um

We don't even know what that's going to be.

Council of Peckham's point question. I think it was directly asked, is there a structural deficit in this municipal budget for the one time money?

I would not have put it in front of you if it was 490. What is it? $500 million. I think isn't a good idea in this. I need to know if we're in a structural deficit, if we're pulling money from free cash or wherever else to backfill the budget, then we have a massive problem here.

Yeah, the problem is, is you raise the tax. the marijuana tax by $100,000, and that's not a reoccurring thing either.

Okay, so you feel like calmly purchasing calmly was a fantastic idea.

All right. Yeah. My problem here is everything seems like it's speculation, hypotheticals. We're hoping that this comes in.

Well, I know my colleagues have questions, so I'll leave it at that. With that, I yield. Thank you. Councilman Seat 4, Council Vice President Dionne.

um so actually another issue just came up that i hadn't even considered so our trash is not resolved yet we don't have a definitive number for trash what do you mean are you talking about the contract the contract the contract hasn't been settled so we don't have a definitive number we do what's in the budget it won't go up

But I guess yet again, OK, it won't exceed, perhaps. And it shouldn't. You're right. No, it can't. You're right. Right. But again, so we're voting on a number that could change.

okay but there's also been discussions matt thomas has had discussions with capital with easy um to extend the contract we have now for two weeks so that there's no interruption so that trash can be paid It's 30 days. Okay. I think it was said to Yeah, so that's even better. So it's been extended by the contract has been extended by 30 days. So we're not in jeopardy at this moment. Not at all. No. So. So trash will continue. Trash will get paid. So again,

Yes, so yes, which is important for people to know that as well. It does not stop government. It doesn't change it. Nobody, people who don't pay attention aren't even going to know that anything happened. Correct. It's more work. I get it. It's just the department that's correct. I get it.

And I would certainly, certainly think, certainly think and hope that within 90 days we could all finally come to an agreement on the budget, an agreement on the problems we're having, and move forward. I mean, I don't understand why we can't. But again, I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen. I'm only one person. It takes an entire body. But I do have one more question. So now you were talking about McKinney-Vento, if there's a deficit in transportation. Originally at a meeting, I thought you said you were going to use circuit breaker money to cover it. It's both.

OK. Well, there aren't both as options. And that's why I'm asking. McKinney-Vento can be used. The city cannot. The administration cannot access or use circuit breaker funds. And this is from DESE, and I will read it. A mayor cannot directly access City Breaker funds for general municipal purposes, including offsetting a school transportation deficit in a non-special education context. These funds are tied to the special education program and must be used by the district for eligible special education transportation. If a municipality school district is eligible, the mayor can work with the di

I guess that would also be a conversation and a debate between the school department and the city side. Correct. And I think based on my conversation with the deputy superintendent yesterday, you're not going to win that conversation. And with that, I'll yield. Thank you.

Just one last thing on top of all the things I said we have to pay for next year. We're negotiating contracts, too, correct?

Okay, so you're projecting that to fall within that $600,000?

Did you take rank, structure, seniority, and all that into consideration with the $600,000? Yes, absolutely.

So I want to start by saying I went to your office yesterday looking for the official budget book, right, this big document right here, which we're supposed to approve. And I'll start off by saying I received the updated pages. I received summaries and things like that last Friday. But the actual pages I was seeking, I got a 344 today for a 6 o'clock meeting. Sorry, 530, you're right. So not even two full hours before this meeting is when I get this book, the pages I was looking for. So I'm going to start there and say, that wasn't enough notice. I got your executive summary on Friday, but I w

I understand that. I think just, you know, I don't know how I'm expected to vote on something where I haven't gotten to those pages. I got these. I didn't realize they were sent until I got home. I drove in special for this. I was out of town as well. So that's number one.

Point of clarification. Councilman C6. If you don't mind, Council. Mr. Mayor, what's the point of all this? If she's stating that she doesn't, she didn't have enough time to do this. if she doesn't have them she doesn't have the numbers ready what was the point of circumventing the council president to have this meeting tonight if nobody's prepared because it's the last day of the budget year and i thought we could get it done based on the meeting with the uh council president and the vice chairman okay so a horse and pony show on the last day of the month before we go to a one-to-one that's w

Thank you. The school department, I have concerns there. I think my colleague in seat four eloquently outlined, I think her and I were in a meeting a week ago Monday in the mayor's office. We were told that circuit breaker could be used. She's clarified what can be used and what can't be used. So I think what baffles me is that there is a meeting tomorrow on school transportation, but yet we're being asked to vote on this tonight.

And that's fair. There have been a number of also emails, I think, sent to, I've been copying on some from school committee members, city council members, asking about some specifics on transportation. I haven't seen any replies to some of those. And I am curious, when are we gonna get answers to emails on that stuff? Because I think we're talking about a $17 million number.

But one of the things that was asked in my meeting was what happens if that fund were to fall fall short? Because that was my biggest concern. Okay, there are a couple different numbers flowing out the school committee voted on one number. What's in here is a different number.

My specific question in the meeting with you guys was what happens if there's a shortfall? And the answer at the time was that circuit breaker, there's over $6 million in there that could be used.

I'm not convinced the redistricting is gonna save any money. I'm just gonna say that. I'm not convinced that's gonna pan out that way. It's great if it does, but I'm not convinced. I have yet to see data and evidence that that is truly gonna be the case. I think that's a guess and a wing and a prayer. I sit on the Committee on Ordinances and Legislation. And I'm gonna go back to, and actually I'll lead with, I was not pleased to see this on my desk today, a opinion from the Office of Corporation Counsel concerning a possible motion or objection vote, that objection motion that may take place t

Yeah, what is this? Your point of order? I don't see disrespect in the budget that we're looking at.

I hear your point of order, but Councilor in seat 3 is speaking.

I'm hearing you on your point of order, Councilor.

I hear you. I'm going to allow the conversation to continue because a legal opinion was put on our desks and the Council has the ability to speak to it because it may or may not have a vote as a result of it. So I'm going to allow the question. Council in seat 3, you have the floor.

Thank you. Yeah, I'm speaking to this legal opinion that was put on because it pertains to a possible motion maybe that they're speculating may or may not happen tonight. He called my court cases AI hallucinations. I would suggest that's probably an AI hallucination even though the clerk who was sitting at the table had them printed. Point of order.

I don't see hallucinations in the budget either. Constancy we're talking about hallucinations and disrespect. I don't see it in the budget. Can we talk focus on the budget?

Well, I think I think I'm talking about this right now. Let's put on our desk. I had hallucinations. But that's not on the agenda.

Consulate seat three. I don't see what's in our desk.

I don't see hallucinations. I read it too. I don't see hallucinations in here. What disrespect? it's an opinion take the opinion and go with that or don't go with that but i don't want to hear about hallucinations during the budget meeting a special meeting about a budget we're talking about hallucinations and disrespectful come on i'm speaking specific to the subject can i have the floor please

sure thank you i'm speaking specifically to the legal opinion that was put on and i'll read the title just so we're all clear it's applicability of section 2-9c of the fall river charter to the june 30th 2026 special meeting of the city council and this was issued as an opinion signed by Assistant Corporation Counsel Gary Howey and Allen Rumsey Corporation Counsel. And throughout this, I think I'm concerned that the opinions coming out are inaccurate. This is an opinion. I'd like a second opinion on this. And my question is, if I disagree with this opinion, how do I get a second opinion? And f

I'm going to wrap this up. Corporation counsel in his office in the month of May.

I know you're not gonna like this because you know what about nobody's not on the agenda either finish How do you know what he's gonna say?

When we have a disagreement and this opinion before me is something I also disagree with Mr. Ramsey told me if you don't like my opinions Michael run for mayor and if you win you can replace me and And I find that very disrespectful for an attorney who has told me that he's my attorney, he's your attorney, he's the city's attorney, he's my attorney. I found that extremely disrespectful that he said that to us. And I have an opinion here before us tonight on something that may or may not happen in this meeting. That is preemptive. And I just find it completely disrespectful to the council that

Thank you, Councilman. Seat eight, Councilor Raposo.

The only thing I want to add, Mr. Mayor, is on the transportation. And I think the little frustration I have, and the city administrator is aware of this, because I had to go to her to get an answer after, say, June 18th was the initial email. I had a conversation with Ms. Arpke about transportation. We had bounced back and forth numbers of what she had. But there was no information from the school department side. So four days later, five emails later, this document that I was emailed, which was not shared with her, I gave to her so she could review it, we could look at it. But my problem wit

Understood. Their number of what, 17 million or something? Correct. Okay, understood.

So the question I still am asking, I can't get an answer for, how do we get these numbers? From where?

Councillor Camara, can we, can we speak without interrupting?

Stop with the interruptions. Thanks so much, Councillor. Councillor, stop with the interruptions.

I just want to know who gave the numbers. You're right. It's a good question. Who would get it from me?

You know the answer, Councillor. Let the Councillor speak. Thanks so much. Councillor Ncide has the floor. Stop with the interruptions.

Thank you, Mr. President. So explain to me, how did these numbers get justified?

So what I wanna know particularly, when you look at the McKinney-Vento fund, and the expended of FY22, 23, 24, 25. How did those numbers end up flat? How did we get a million exactly? 500 exactly.

Okay. So why did it take an email to the city administrator to finally get an answer? And then this document that I got on, was it the 23rd, is the same document that's been shared now once, and I have it twice here again, still with no answer to what it is.

Point of information, I think my colleague should be asking, why did it take so long for the city administration to even ask the question? Last week. Point of information. I also see that you have a floor.

So, Mr. Mayor, and this has nothing to do with the other people at this table. This is a question to you. How does this happen? The school department, right, and the city, working on the same page, right, how do we not get an answer to what is a very simple question? And you're the chief executive here, and you and I have had this conversation. I'm just trying to understand when we're at this moment to get this answer, and are we just not answering email? What's the problem here?

And that's fine, but is there no one else in the school department that can answer to these numbers?

And again, you've already said to me that you are, and I don't want to misquote you, but you don't agree with this number, correct?

And the other question is that third number that Mr. Dias referred to earlier is a 5% increase based on current spending.

My question is based on what because in prior years with 8% 1% 11% 15% where we get 5. We're waiting for a response this this is my problem I agree this is the frustration that I have and it's not like I didn't attempt to try to get an answer, days and days ahead of time. And it's just, we don't have it. And that's the frustrating part for this. Because again, this is on the city side. This is the part we have to argue. And I will say that transportation needs to be checked. Because it's growing and growing and growing. And listen, the educator in this room right here agrees that we need to tr

Thank you. Councilman C2, Councilman Camaro.

Yeah, and I was just going to say in my colleague in seat three, I understand you're upset with this legal opinion, but what we do when we don't agree with the legal opinion is ignore it altogether, like you said, throw it in the trash, and just base your own form of opinion and just go with it. So it's not like we have to have a legal opinion when we're making our decisions on these things. Whether we get one or not, if it's unsolicited, if you don't like it, ignore it. It's very simple. It's not uncommon. It's happened in the past. I've disagreed with legal opinions in the past times I've be

In any of it. So when's the first time you've had the conversation with the school department about transportation?

I understand my colleague's frustration, but I think it works both ways. I don't know how you submit a budget without having answers to transportation. It works both ways. If you're not getting responses and we want to go beat up the schools, at the end of the day, and I had this conversation with my colleague a couple of weeks ago, The expense is a city expense, right? So you're responsible to make sure and come up with your own estimate in terms of what it is, what it looks like, tie into what the schools are since it's an operation over the schools. So those conversations should be having w

So I guess my issue, my concern is that the school department had their budget, I'd say, back in December, right? I don't know when they had, well, they start their budget in December. Right, so I would imagine that there's December all this and they're going through and they've got transportation numbers. So I'm not saying it was at the school committee, but the administration is working on their budget back in December on transportation. So I don't know why we wouldn't have any type of documentation or backup as to how they came up with that $17 million number because It's very clear that th

That's what I can say to that Right, but we're in July starting tomorrow That's the problem, right?

Right, and the expectation is for us to approve a budget. This is the collective issue that we have.

So you want us to approve a budget that we're not starting on. It can either be a million dollars lower or a million dollars higher, and then we'll just make an amendment as to the million dollars.

set and accurate and firm you're right that could change but that that could be the case either way even with that 17 million dollar number that could also change so either way it could be adjusted or need to be adjusted down the line so how many other numbers in the you know 484 million dollar budget all the other line items have swings of about a million dollars line items could go up a million dollars could come down a million dollars maybe health care

But that's self-funded. We've got claims. You can't see. But outside of health insurance, is there anything? No. Okay. So to me, that is, when we had this conversation, is just... unfathomable in terms of not being able to get a number. And I understand if it's when we got projections, if it's, you know, $100,000 off or $50,000 off or whatever the case may be, but a million dollars in different directions, not being able to be on the same page. That's a concern, right? And I think, you know, we continue to talk about the cost of transportation and it has a significant impact on the budget so f

But with that I yield, I'm ready to take a vote.

Thank you, Councilor N.C. Four, Council Vice President Deon.

I just want to clarify something, because people kept saying, Kevin Almeida, Kevin Almeida, Kevin Almeida, and he's not even here to defend himself anymore. But this comes from the four public schools to the city council from Kathleen Smith, interim superintendent of schools, date June 23rd. CC'd Kevin Almeida regarding transportation. So this comes from the superintendent, not from Kevin Almeida.

I'm not saying anything bad about him. Not at all. And I believe the numbers came from him. That's a forward. But the correspondence came from the superintendent. And I don't know if you'd like to have this. I made you a copy. I've been sent a copy. Okay. SO WHEN WE HAD OUR MEETING, BUDGET MEETING, AND COUNCILOR CANUAL WAS AT THAT PARTICULAR ONE AND WE TOUCHED ON TRANSPORTATION, AND I ASKED YOU AT THAT MEETING, Are all receipts accounted for? Are there any encumbrances? And at that time, you said, no, everything is not in. Yes. We're still waiting for that. Correct. So the calculations for transportation on the city side are based on? Estimating the last.

So I just want to point out that this states Please find attached our five-year analysis of transportation spending for FY2026 year-to-date expenditures, inclusive of encumbrances and requisitions, total $16,365,960. Well, boy, I can't even do my numbers today. $16,365,943.12 as of June 3rd. This figure fully accounts for unpaid June obligations. So, in fairness, no, you didn't have the numbers then, but we have them now. You're saying we don't have them when they say we have them?

Even though they're saying we have them.

Well, with that, I yield, and I am ready to vote as well.

Last councilor, I'll ask to speak. Councilor in seat six, Council Peckham, for the vote.

Yeah, I can't take any more of this. Every question is we don't know, we're not sure, it's hypotheticals, it's guesswork, like literally.

And also to be clear, you started all of these discussions with department heads in April. I reached out to a, yes, she just said it at the table.

So when did you reach out to department heads, Mr. Mayor, if you've got so much to say? Go ahead. budget work probably started in january february when she said when we started meeting with department yeah 500 million dollars do you know when westport meets i don't i'm not concerned about westport i'm concerned about fall river yeah well you should be more concerned and probably hold your meetings a little earlier i'm concerned about fall yeah it doesn't look that way so anyway um i don't like any of this there's too many unanswered questions and honestly i like you personally i do but i have

Councilor in C6, you still have the floor. I yield the floor. The item that is before us at this present time right now is the appropriation order that the motion on the floor has been made to take the appropriation order in its entirety. By-line item? Yes. That motion has been made and seconded. Hearing no further discussion, Madam Clerk.

For the record, Council President, the CFO is left.

For the record. Yep. Thank you. Record to reflect the CFO left the Council Chambers.

Motion to take the approval. It's already been made and seconded to motion to take it. Line by line. Line by line. Has been made and seconded. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. Next order of business. Madam Clerk, which is the order?

Motion to take one through 10 together. Motion to take items.

Motion to reject items A through I. Yeah, motion to reject all items A through I.

Motion to take. the budget together, A through I, and reject, to be clear. To reject all, each individual line, yep. All together, one shot. Motion has been made by Councilman Kadeem. Do I have a second? SECONDED BY COUNCILOR CAMARA. DISCUSSION. COUNCIL SEAT 4, COUNCIL VICE PRESIDENT DEON.

YEAH, THE LAST TIME THAT WE DID A BUDGET IN ITS ENTIRETY IN ONE VOTE AND SAID WE REJECT THE ENTIRE BUDGET, WE WERE TOLD THAT WENT AGAINST DOR, WHICH IT DID. I HAVE THE DOR THING HERE THAT IT HAS TO BE REJECTED. YOU HAVE TO GO LINE BY LINE. YOU CAN'T DO IT AS A WHOLE.

ALL I'M SAYING IS WE'RE GOING LINE BY LINE. TAKING IT ALL AT ONE SHOT, LINES A, 1 THROUGH 10, B, 1 TO 3, JUST TO BE CLEAR. C, 1-2, D, 1-3, E, 1-3, F, 1-3, G, 1-3, H, 1-8, I, 1-4. We can do it either way, but it's very clear that we're taking- Through the chair to the clerk.

Let's do it. I'll agree with our clerk. We're going to remove. Motion has been removed. Madam Clerk, if you may, A, for the purpose of general government, please introduce that item again.

Motion to take one through 10. TOGETHER.

SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE LINE ITEMS AND ONE TOGETHER? ONE SECTION. THE SAME THING WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

ALL RIGHT. NEVER MIND. I WITHDRAW THAT. LET'S JUST DO IT.

MOTION TO REJECT HAS BEEN MADE BY COUNSELOR DEON, SECONDED BY COUNSELOR PECKHAM. DISCUSSION ON THE REJECTION OF THE LINE ITEM HEARING NONE. ROLL CALL VOTE, PLEASE.

A 2 from the general fund for mayor expenses 20,250 dollars motion to reject motion to second item to a made by Council Vice President Deon seconded by Council of Beckham is there discussion there's not roll call.

Motion to reject has been made by Council of Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Is there discussion? There is not. Roll call vote.

$170,700 motion to reject second motion to reject has been made by council vice president Dion seconded by council of Peckham discussion. Hearing none. Roll call.

Second. Motion to reject, made by Council Vice President Deon, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject, made by Councilor Peckham. Seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject, made by Councilor Peckham, seconded by Councilor Dion. Is there discussion? There's not, roll call.

Motion to reject has been made by Council Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion, hearing none. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed?

I can, so far it's been the same, but we can do that.

Hearing no further discussion, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Two opposed. Two, five. And you post console. Constancy to counsel of 5 opposed next or business. He 9 from the general fund for veterans benefits salaries 299,000 $611 motion to reject session to reject has been made by consular Deon seconded by second Council of Peckham discussion hearing on all those in favor aye opposed to boost C 2 and C 5 C 2 and C 5 oppose hearing no opposition next order of business.

Motion to reject as made by Councillor Peckham, seconded by Councillor Dionne. Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? No. Councilor in Seat 5, opposed. Can you two? Councilor in Seat 2, opposed. Councilor in Seat 6, opposed. Seven. Councilor in Seat 7, opposed. The ayes have it. Next order of business.

Motion to reject, made by Councilor Peckham, seconded by Councilor Deon. Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Councilor, seat two, opposed. Councilor in seat seven, opposed. And Councilor in seat five, opposed. The ayes have it, next order of business.

Reject has been made by Councilor Deon. Seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Councilor in seat two, Councilor in seat five, and Councilor in seat seven opposed? The ayes have it.

Second. It has been made by Council of Peckham. Seconded by Council Vice President Dionne. Is there a discussion? Roll call. Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject, made by Councilor Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor, roll call.

Motion to reject made by Council LePecum, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Roll call.

Motion to reject, made by Councilor Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Is there discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Second. Motion to reject has been made by Councilor Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

That's been made by Councilor Peckham. Seconded by Council Vice President Dion. Discussion? Hearing none. Roll call.

Motion to reject has been made by Council of Peckham, second by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject has been made by Councilor Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject has been made by Councilor Deon, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.

Motion to reject had been made by Councilor Raposo, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject. Second. Seconded by Councilor Vice President Dion. Discussion? Roll call.

Motion to approve has been made by Councilor Camara, seconded by? Second. Councilor Pereira, discussion? Roll call on the approval.

Second. Motion to reject has been made by Council Vice President Deon, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion? Roll call.

Motion to reject has been made by Council Vice President Deon, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion? Roll call.

Motion to reject, made by Council Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Roll call.

Motion to adopt was heard first, made by Councilor Camara, seconded by Councilor Hart. Discussion? Roll call.

Motion to reject, made by Council of Deon, seconded by Council of Peckham. Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Roll call. Roll call.

1,187,708 dollars to approve has been made by council of Camara seconded by council of heart discussion roll call.

Motion to reject as made by Council Vice President Deon, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject has been made by Councilor Deon, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject, made by Council Vice President Dion, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion? Roll call.

Motion to reject, made by Council Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject has been made by Council of Peckham, seconded by Council Vice President Deon. Discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to reject all funding sources. Second.

Motion to reject all funding sources has been made by Councilor Kadeem, seconded by Councilor Peckham. No. Oh, Pereira. I'm sorry, Councilor Peckham. I didn't see your hand. By Councilor Pereira, I'm sorry. Motion has been made and seconded. Harry, no further discussion. Roll call on all funding sources.

Motion to reduce the appropriation to $0.

Second. Motion to approve the appropriation to $0 has been made by Council Vice President Deon, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Is there discussion? Hearing none, roll call.

Motion to adopt a 112th budget, which the Department of Revenue is now referring to as a continuing appropriation budget.

Motion to adopt the order as amended. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Motion to adopt the order as amended has been made by Council Vice President Dion, seconded by Councilor Peckham. Discussion? Roll call.

Motion to approve a 112th budget, which now the DOR calls a continuing appropriation budget.

Second. Point of information first. Constance, you want your point of information? So we don't have a continuation budget before us. There was nothing submitted, so we don't have anything to vote on. So I think what my colleague's looking to do is to make a motion that we move forward with a continuation budget. We don't have anything before us. There's nothing to adopt. It needs to be submitted to us. So I just want to make sure we're clear.

that distinction you're clear with your motion counselor correct when it comes to that move forward with a move forward with a continuing appropriation budget because according to the dor if we do not have a budget for fiscal year on july 1st due to um the mayor may submit a continuing appropriation budget so that's what we would move forward with motion made by council of vice president dion seconded by council of heck of discussion on the item

Let's just hear. She wants to send a letter. Councilman C7 made a motion to send a letter to the mayor for a 1-12 continued appropriation. It has been made by Council of Pereiras. Seconded by? Council Vice President Diaz. Discussion on sending a letter? Hearing none. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. Do you oppose the letter? No.

I still want to talk on my motion that we never settled.

Hold on. Yeah, one second. Councilman C7, you still have a vote.

Understood. You yield, Counselor, you said? I yield. Thank you. Counselor in seat four, Counselor Vice President Deon, on your motion.

Yeah, the only reason that I made the motion to do this, I agree that it automatically goes. However, with all the jockeying, the opinions, and everything that has happened, and the back and forth, and knocking of heads, I just wanted to have an extra precaution. That was where I was coming from. With that, I yield.

Motion has been made and seconded. Roll call. Madam Clerk, can you reintroduce the motion?

That was already approved by Councilor Pereira. This one by Councilor Pereira, Vice President Dion. Clarify that again?

So the motion would be to have the mayor submit a continuing appropriation budget. But you have to do that anyways, right?

She's just looking for a motion just to be on the safe side of it.

Yes. I think we all recognize it's automatic. Yep. Motion made by Councilor Vice President Dionne, seconded by Councilor Peckham, roll call.

Any further objections heard at this time? Hearing no further objections, is there anything else before this council? Motion to adjourn has been made by Councilor Deon, seconded by Councilor Pereira. All those in favor? Opposed? The ayes have it. Good night.