City Council - Regular Meeting

5:25•ABAaron Brockett

I'm going to go ahead and call us to order and ask Alicia to do a roll call, please.

5:53•ABAaron Brockett

THANKS SO MUCH. I'D LIKE TO NOW REQUEST A MOTION TO AMEND THE AGENDA TO ADD ITEM 8A, WHICH IS THE FRONT RANGE PASSENGER RAIL SALES TAX MEASURE DISCUSSION.

6:06 – 6:25•ABAaron Brockett

SECOND. GOT A MOTION AND SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HANDS. WE GOT A VOTE TO AMEND THE AGENDA, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. Agenda has been amended, so let's go to open comment, and Elisha, please go over our public participation guidelines.

7:45 – 8:09•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks so much, Alicia. All right, we've got 19 people signed up to speak. Each person will have two minutes. I will be strict about that limit in the interest of fairness. I'll call three names at a time. Our first three folks are Todd Buchanan, H. Michelle Merlino, both in person, and then Lynn Siegel online. So Todd? Can you turn your mic on there, Todd? There's a button to turn the mic on.

9:15•ABAaron Brockett

Thank you. Thank you. Now we'll have H. Michelle Merlino and then Lynn Siegel and Jess Hunt online.

10:39 – 10:54•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks so much. Just before we go to the next person, any signs in the room need to be held. So the sign that's propped on the chair over here will need to be picked up and held, please. Thanks so much. All right. Now we'll go to Lynn Siegel and Jess Hunt online and then Catherine Greener in person.

12:58•ABAaron Brockett

Thank you. Now we'll go to Jess Hunt online and then Catherine Greener and Mike Clark in person.

15:13•ABAaron Brockett

Now we'll go to Catherine Greener and Mike Clark in person and then Malika Hartley online.

17:30•ABAaron Brockett

Your time is up, but thank you for your testimony. Now we'll go to Mike Clark in person and then Malika Hartley and Ronald Podhaisky online.

17:48•ABAaron Brockett

Mike, can you get, can you get right into that mic there, please?

19:46•ABAaron Brockett

Thank you. Okay, now we'll go to Malika Hartley and Ronald Podhadsky online, and then Rupert Ketterhagen in person.

22:01•ABAaron Brockett

Thank you for your testimony. All right. We'll go to Ronald Podhadsky, Rupert Ketterhagen, and Noah Hart.

24:16•ABAaron Brockett

Now we'll go to Rupert Ketterhagen, then Noah Hart, then Rob Smoke.

26:29 – 26:45•ABAaron Brockett

Your time is up. Thank you for your testimony. Time is up. All right. Now we go to Noah Hart, then Rob Smoke, then Evan Ravitz. Is Noah here? Not seeing no, we'll go to Rob smoke.

28:57•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks. Now we'll go to Evan Rabbitts, then Aaron Stone, then Linda Quigley.

30:55•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks. Now we'll go to Aaron Stone, then Linda Quigley, and then Chelsea Blake.

32:27•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks. Now we'll go to Linda Quigley, Chelsea Blake, and Paul Hebben.

32:36•ABAaron Brockett

Doesn't look like it, so let's go to Chelsea Blake.

34:55•ABAaron Brockett

Your time is up, but thank you for your testimony. We're going to go to Paul Hebben, Catherine Sundvall, and then Greg Jablonski.

37:17•ABAaron Brockett

Thank you. Now we'll go to Katherine Sundvall, Greg Jablonski, and Laura Gonzalez remotely.

39:34•ABAaron Brockett

Thank you. Our last two speakers are Greg Jablonski and Lara Gonzalez.

41:55•ABAaron Brockett

Our last speaker is Lara Gonzalez online.

44:07 – 44:28•ABAaron Brockett

Your time is up. And I'll just say that those last comments, while legal under the First Amendment, were anti-Semitic, and I condemn them as unacceptable. Quiet in the audience, please. Quiet. Responses to open comments, please. And thanks to our other people for coming.

50:27•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks for that. Any questions for city staff about open comment? Nicole?

Yeah, I just had a question, and this may be for Joe. He probably already sat down again. We've had some delays at CU South due to litigation from community members, which have thrown the schedule off a little bit. Do we have an estimate of how much these delays have cost the city?

Because, I mean, I live right next door to it, too. And, you know, it is about to be closed, right? So am I understanding correctly that part of the community's reaction is extending potentially the length of time that this area would be closed?

53:28 – 53:47•ABAaron Brockett

That's where we are Thanks Joe, and I'll just add since the last open comment I appreciate you all come talking to the community about why and what needs to be closed and posting the map So appreciate that any other questions? Not seeing any other questions so yeah, so we'll we have time for very brief council comments I

53:49 – 54:07•TWTara Winer

To Jess Hunt about the Boulderthon, yes, we've heard about that, and I'm sure we're going to look into it for next year. And to Lara Gonzalez, yes, hate speech is allowed, but tonight's anti-Jewish hate rant was a new low as far as I was concerned, am concerned.

54:09 – 54:28•RSRyan Schuchard

Thanks for that, Tara. Ryan? Ryan? Just wanted to say a word of gratitude to the communications team. Their work is tireless and mostly thankless of making sure our community knows what they need to know and are engaged. And you're one of my favorite departments. Thanks. Thanks. Matt.

54:28 – 55:13•MBMatt Benjamin

Real quick regarding CU South. This has been one of the most long-term and publicly accessible and participated projects in the city's history going back well over a decade. Two community votes have been taken on it to further support the building of flood mitigation along South Boulder Creek. We couldn't have a more clear mandate from community to move forward with this project and commend staff for working cleverly with the conditions that they've been given to meet that community mandate and do so with the minimal financial cost to our community. So good job staff, but also communities to r

I just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge our staff. They show up every day and serve this community with professionalism and respect even what they're when they're confronted with toxicity I think I can speak for all of us up here when I say that we Greatly appreciate their work and value the dignity and the safety of the people who keep our city running I'm really sorry that you're experiencing the negative impacts of some of this broader and growing anti-worker attitude in our city But I'm really glad you're here.

55:42 – 1:05:44•ABAaron Brockett

Thank you Well said Nicole. Thank you All right, seeing no others, I will go ahead and call a recess at 6.20 p.m. We'll come back at 6.30 to do the business portion of the meeting. Thanks, everybody. All right, everybody, if you can take your seats, please. All right, it's 6.30, so I'm gonna go ahead and gavel us back to order. And can we go to our consent agenda, please, Alicia?

1:05:54 – 1:06:10•ABAaron Brockett

Great. Any questions or comments on the consent agenda? We'll make a motion to pass the consent agenda. All right. We have a motion and a second. A roll call, please, Alicia.

1:06:41•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks so much. Let's go to our call-up check-in, please.

1:07:32•ABAaron Brockett

Any questions or comments or desire to call this one up? Tara?

1:07:36 – 1:08:06•TWTara Winer

I was reading the letter from one of the constituents, and I am concerned about the shadow impact to the houses that are on that street to the west. And I was wondering, I was thinking of calling it up, but I'm okay also to hear from the developer as to how that is going to work and the massing and the setbacks on that street, that particular street.

1:08:06•ABAaron Brockett

So if we can invite the applicant to come up and speak to Council Member Weiner's question.

1:09:07•TWTara Winer

Do you mind also talking about the setbacks, why you couldn't have more of a setback further from Marine Street? I did look at the...

1:09:42 – 1:10:09•ABAaron Brockett

I do appreciate the saving of the three champion trees on the site. Those are community treasures, as well as the historic school building, which is another community treasure. And I'll just mention that Naropa University itself is a community treasure, having been here in the city of Boulder for over 50 years. And while it's somewhat bittersweet to see it leaving this campus, we look forward to the institution's continued success after the sale and their continued presence in the Nalanda campus on the east.

1:10:43 – 1:10:58•ABAaron Brockett

Anything from anybody else? All right. Not seeing anything else, then we're not going to call that one up. Again, good luck with the next phases for Naropa. All right, we have one public hearing this evening. Let's go to that, please, Alicia.

1:37:14 – 1:37:27•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks so much, Charlotte. Really appreciate the presentation and all the work that you and your team have done on this budget. Questions from Council. What I'm going to ask is that we keep our questions to two per person for the first round and then we can circle back around if people have additional ones.

1:37:33•ABAaron Brockett

Maybe there are no questions. Tina and then Matt.

1:37:39 – 1:38:12•TMTina Marquis

First, thank you for all the information and for responding to the hotlines. One of the questions I have is we didn't budget in any positive impact from revenues from the Sundance Film Festival. But I am, and I have two questions about that. One is did we budget in anticipated costs to support the festival? And then second, at what time in the process in the following year would we talk about how to allocate any revenues from Sundance that we haven't budgeted?

1:39:28•TMTina Marquis

And so we haven't budgeted any overtime yet for public safety. We just have the base.

1:39:41 – 1:40:08•TMTina Marquis

Okay. And then my other question is really specific. Many of us just went and toured a public safety room at the public safety building and learned a little bit about our drones. Are the drones that can do the thermal detection, are those fully paid by the police department or is that a shared expense with the wildfire department? I wasn't sure who, because they're also used for the wildfire piece along with non-wildfire safety.

1:40:28•TMTina Marquis

Okay, so they're done. Okay, great. Thank you.

1:40:31 – 1:41:14•MBMatt Benjamin

Matt and then Tara. Thank you. Thanks for the reminder presentation. It's a lot of information to compress in just a few minutes, so I appreciate that. My question has to do with Um, kind of front running our October 22nd meeting because we're a little out of phase and out of sequence. And I know that that's just a scheduling thing that has occurred, but nonetheless, it's consequential. that we're talking about the budget, yet in three weeks we'll be debating whether we spend more or less money on wildfire. So my real question is, knowing that's three weeks away, I'd like to know, we must have

1:42:57 – 1:43:17•MBMatt Benjamin

Great. I appreciate that. So six and a half to about ten and a half would be the sort of full Monty more or less of what that enhanced is. Are you prepared for conversations of anything in between or is it kind of an all or nothing? I'm just sort of again setting up what tonight's conversation might be about where council might be comfortable somewhere in that stage or not if there was a desire to sort of commit some resources to that.

1:44:01 – 1:44:23•MBMatt Benjamin

So that's perfect, Dan. I appreciate that. So it seems that anywhere from status quo to anywhere between six and a half to 10 million is kind of the spectrum that we're looking at for where we would enhance and we'll have those metrics and performance and sort of take our experts, you know, perspective on how to sort of maximize cost-benefit there. But it's really between those two bookends. That's right. Okay, great. Thank you for the update. Appreciate it.

1:44:24 – 1:45:09•TWTara Winer

Tara? In regards to realignment of 2.0 FTEs in the general fund from the communications department, to a new office of customer experience. So my question is, does that office of customer experience include people coming to the planning and development, physically coming to the planning and development department to get their answers to their questions and other people, like community members who are looking for questions answered that day? So can you describe that department?

1:47:00 – 1:47:11•TWTara Winer

And my second question is, you know the anticipated gap of $6.3 million. Are you saying that this budget takes care of that? It removes the gap?

1:47:22 – 1:48:28•TATaishya Adams

Thank you. This is actually another one for Dan. This is related to the agricultural plan. It was wonderful to see that the staff is already doing an analysis for that. But my specific question was actually updating the plan. And I know that currently the agricultural team, which is doing a wonderful job from the feedback that we've gotten from our lessees, but It seems a bit insular. So I'm just curious if in that planning process, there'll be opportunities for more community engagement and out beyond the staff and also if open space would be involved in that. So sorry, that was a little ramb

1:50:25 – 1:51:25•TATaishya Adams

So just a point of clarification, I think the areas I'm specifically talking about, first of all, I just want to recognize that most cities don't even have agricultural plans, so this isn't a criticism. I've already done an analysis and I've really appreciated how forward thinking it is. It's more so a concern as our food costs continue to arise, our restaurants are going to be continued to challenge on accessing and securing food as the supply chain is starting to absolutely deconstruct. One of the couple of areas, gaps in the plan that I'm hopeful will get addressed is around reporting and t

1:51:30 – 1:53:57•RKRob Kaplan

Thank you. And thank you for the analysis and all staff members that have done work on this. Speaking to folks from OSMP, I mean, you guys are really great. doing a great job out there. And I was lucky enough to have a two-hour tour with Brian Aniker, Paul Ostroy, and they just really highlighted some of the things that you're doing. That said, I mean, this is the most existential threat that we face is wildfire coming through Boulder. And you look at Maui, and they've got a $4 billion lawsuit against them for uh... evacuation and planning and i just want to get way ahead of that uh... i know

1:54:18•RKRob Kaplan

Yeah, I can. Thank you. Sorry. Through some of the capital improvement projects, can we hold off on some of those capital improvement projects for OSMP?

1:55:07•RKRob Kaplan

It does. I'm trying to, like... I'm trying to bridge this gap of what we actually need for 2030 and what we need today.

1:58:35 – 1:59:25•MBMatt Benjamin

Is that level of reallocation detail necessary for a decision we're making in three weeks? And so that's really, I think, maybe that's part of where Rob's going is we're in the budget conversation now. And therefore, if we were to put a hold on the money, determining exactly what bucket it comes from, is that really relevant to a decision we're going to make in three weeks? What it is trying to say is rather than make that decision in May of next year, we could be putting a hold on some of that money now. And if on the 22nd, we decide some variety of that a la carte of enhanced, at that moment

1:59:25 – 1:59:48•TMTina Marquis

So I can, I was going to colloquy too, because it might be, if I can add my question, can we also, go through the process of the October 22 meeting, and then give direction through the ATB process in December rather than going to May, so that we could still get the money allocated by the end of this year, but do it through the ATB process without allocating it now.

2:00:52•ABAaron Brockett

So, Charlotte, I'm going to follow up here, because Tina's question was, could we reallocate later in the year in the ATB process?

2:01:51•ABAaron Brockett

But it seems like the answer is yes, though, right? Like, subject to potentially maybe not too much money. Otherwise, it could be disruptive.

2:02:06•ABAaron Brockett

I mean, I think just the answer of yes is probably good enough. Yeah. Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah. Another colloquy? Okay.

It's a similar thing. I guess I'm just wondering, do we have any kind of programmatic way or process of determining whose special proposed project would get more funding? Like I see some of the spruce pool advocates out in the audience. I know they would like their pool funded. I know not many people use the Child Watch program at East Boulder Community Center, but I expect those who do can't be here tonight and probably aren't excited about it going away. I mean, like, on and on, right? So I guess my... Do we have anything to help ground a decision to reallocate funding from one program to an

Well, and sorry, I didn't mean to imply that staff would do this for us. I was just wondering if we have any counsel. That's all. That's fine.

2:04:45•ABAaron Brockett

Okay, I think we're back to Ryan now. Over to Ryan.

2:04:51 – 2:06:10•RSRyan Schuchard

Okay. Also on the subject of the wildfire protection proposal that is not yet completed, but which we are discussing. So my understanding is that the current budget proposal, and thanks to you, Charlotte, for the hotline, which went through some of this. The current proposal that we are considering passing tonight has what seems to me is an enhanced level of wildfire strategies. It seems to be that it's reflective of that we're going through this work plan priority, this whole initiative. It seems to be anticipating an increase in attention and a higher level of strategy. And my impression is

2:09:50•ABAaron Brockett

Good enough. We've got Nicole, and then I have one question.

Thank you so much for the presentation and all the work. I know it isn't easy to propose this budget because you and the services you provide to community are directly impacted. Could you speak a little bit to how our departments have evolved over the past five years to incorporate equity into every financial decision, including when we have to make cuts like this? How do we do this at a citywide scale?

Thank you. And I just have one other question. We discussed early on in some of the financial strategy work merging some of our specific funds to a public realm tax where we could have more flexibility from year to year in what we're funding because we'd have slightly less dedicated revenue than what we have now that can only be used on specific things. Can you explain how undedicating some of these funds might lead to different budget outcomes in future years?

2:13:38 – 2:13:55•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks, Sarah. I have one question, which was, so we saw in your matrix of the different boards and commissions that there was one commission that, did not recommend the budget, which was the Parks and Recreation Board. And so I just wonder if we could get just a brief description of that discussion that they had.

2:14:53 – 2:15:07•ABAaron Brockett

Fair enough. Thanks. Appreciate the description. Okay. That was all of us who had a crack at it. We could do another question. I do want to be mindful of getting to the public hearing. I know we have children in the audience, and I wouldn't like to keep people longer than necessary. Does anybody have one last burning question? Okay.

2:15:09 – 2:15:28•TATaishya Adams

This is just one more on the fire mitigation. We've done a lot on the mitigation side, and I just wanted to try to look at the budget again to see what was allocated for the pre-evacuation and recovery. And I would just love to just get an update on that. I had a hard time finding it. I apologize if it was there. Thank you.

2:17:01•ABAaron Brockett

All right. Tina's got a quick follow-up.

2:17:04 – 2:17:21•TMTina Marquis

Yes. One part of this process is the long-term financial strategy that we'll be looking later in the year. And I'm curious, we've talked a lot about, you know, trying to get revenue, but will we also be looking at scenarios where revenue doesn't come through and we start looking at other structural changes to the budget?

2:17:29 – 2:17:57•ABAaron Brockett

All right, thanks for all those excellent answers. Let's go ahead and open the public hearing. We've got 10 people signed up to speak. Everyone will get three minutes. I'll call three names at a time. But our third person is pooling, so let's just make sure that folks are here. Catherine Sundvall is pooling with Mary Durham and Eric Durham. Can everybody raise their hands to show that they're in the room? Fantastic, all right. So our first three speakers are Lynn Siegel, Margaret LeCompte, and Catherine Sundvall. And Lynn Siegel's online.

2:21:03•ABAaron Brockett

Okay. Our next speaker is Margaret LeCompte. Then we have Catherine Sundvall and then Laura Gonzalez virtually.

2:24:28•ABAaron Brockett

Our next three speakers are Catherine Sundvall for five minutes, pooling with two others, Laura Gonzalez virtually, and Carol Joplin-Jack virtually.

2:29:45•ABAaron Brockett

Thank you. All right, now we're going to go to Laura Gonzalez and Carol Joplin-Jack online, and then Randall Weiner in person.

2:30:47•ABAaron Brockett

I'm ending your time because you're not speaking to the witnesses in front of us. All right, let's go to Carol Joplin-Jack and then Randall Weiner and John Tayer.

2:34:04 – 2:34:18•ABAaron Brockett

All right, our last three speakers are Randall Weiner, John Thayer, and Mary Gorman. Is Randall here? Okay, we'll move to John Thayer, who I believe is here.

2:37:28•ABAaron Brockett

All right, our final speaker is Mary Gorman.

2:40:29 – 2:40:56•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks so much. And thanks to everyone who came out to speak to us this evening. That brings us to the end of our public hearing. So I will bring it back to council for discussion. The way I would like to structure this is to see if there are specific proposals to change the proposed budget and work through those. And then after we get through that, people can offer up a few brief general remarks if they are so inclined. Does anyone want to propose specific alterations to this budget?

2:41:00•ABAaron Brockett

If you'd like to do a clarifying question now, go for it. Sorry, thank you.

2:41:03 – 2:41:48•TATaishya Adams

We'll start with that. I just had a question about the Botanic Gardens. Is Allie still in the room? Allie Rhodes still in the room for, yes. Allie gets to come on down again. See, I give you a tune. Um, you know, I have heard from our indigenous and tribal communities around, um, you know, this particular issue. So thank you so much for your public comment and reminding me, um, about that and curious just how, um, the, uh, indigenous proposal and just in general, I know we do, um, travel consultation, but we haven't done any in 2026 and. There hasn't been a particularly robust role for the cou

2:43:10 – 2:44:05•TATaishya Adams

Okay. Thank you. Um, just want to clarify though, that that 1861, uh, treaty is actually not valid. So that entire, our entire Boulder Valley is an unseated land, but I do appreciate the, that the, um, two consultations and the, the work that you did to outreach to those entities and organizations. And I'm hopeful. that previous councils will take a more leadership role in our indigenous and tribal so that they're doing government to government and it doesn't leave our staff in situations where they are trying to, you know, I appreciate that, you know, the work that our staff does, but going b

2:44:09 – 2:48:38•MBMatt Benjamin

I appreciate that, Aaron. And so I'm going to circle back to my proposal and one, maybe offer a few changes to it as presented based on some feedback I've received. So for context, given wildfire is a top priority the community has told us about in Fund Our Future, and we've done, as Dan has mentioned, we've been accelerating our funding over the last few years. This year we hear from community that it is a top priority and our additional investment is just 300K one time. It's not to say we're not doing great work. It's just that we have a long road to go. And as has been pointed out, there's

2:48:40 – 2:48:52•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks for that, Matt. Before we get into the specifics of your proposal, I want to see if anyone else has any other proposals, because I'd like to see the scope of what we'll be discussing before we get into the details. Does anybody else want to propose another specific change to the budget? Taisha?

2:48:53 – 2:50:27•TATaishya Adams

Well, more so, I just wanted to withdraw the proposal on the food systems. I feel confident, based on the information that was provided by Dan and Open Space, that the agricultural plan is being analyzed and that any changes that come out from that, we'll be able to make those adjustments. I do want to just have a brief, I see, I thought I saw the chief, not that one, but the other one. Where did he go? Oh, there you are, hey. I appreciated the feedback and the budget information. I understand the changes that have been made, and I'm still concerned that the previous pilot, one, didn't run lon

2:50:28•ABAaron Brockett

Sorry, Taisha, was that a proposal to change the budget at the end there?

2:50:32 – 2:50:46•TATaishya Adams

To reallocate some of the funds from the police over time to additional mental health partners that can support the non-emergency 911 calls.

2:50:46•ABAaron Brockett

Okay, thanks for that. We'll come back and discuss that. Any other specific proposals for changes? Rob?

2:50:56 – 2:51:29•RKRob Kaplan

This is a little tricky for me because... What Matt is proposing is probably the safest thing for our city, a hold for three weeks. That being said, at a minimum, I would love to hold that 600K that we spoke to before. I'm not sure procedurally how this works. If it's another, I mean, I would like to, I'd like to vote on Matt's if that's possible, and then mine isn't.

2:51:29 – 2:51:58•ABAaron Brockett

It sounds like it's maybe a modification to Matt's, so why don't we lump it in together with the discussion of Matt's proposal. All right. Any other specific proposal for changes? All right. Seeing none, then let's dive in. So Matt put something on the table of holding $4 million for the moment while we figure out what's happening on October 22nd. And then Rob, you wanted to, I'll invite you then to offer a counter if you want to. Did you want to?

2:51:59•RKRob Kaplan

Yeah, my counter would be to hold $600,000 for identified mitigation and crews and equipment.

2:52:08•ABAaron Brockett

Very good. Does anybody want to ask clarifying questions about these ideas before we get into opinions? Yeah, I saw Nicole had a question.

Yeah, I just had a question for staff. I was just trying to remember on the fund our future engagement, was that looking, when we did that exercise with people, was that across all of our funds or were we really just looking at sort of our undedicated funds with fund our future? Does that make sense?

2:52:56•ABAaron Brockett

Tina, did you have a clarifying question? Oh, sorry. Mary, go ahead.

2:53:14 – 2:53:34•MBMatt Benjamin

Well, it would be improper for me to commit beyond one year, so this is just the start. So this would be just for next year. Obviously, we've got a big number ahead of us in ongoing work, and it will take subsequent councils and or funding mechanisms to look at ongoing work. But this is for next year to get that work going in earnest.

2:53:36•ABAaron Brockett

Tina, did you have a clarifying question? And then I'll go to Bob.

2:53:40 – 2:53:52•TMTina Marquis

Yeah, I don't know how the hold process works. But do we need to identify a source for the hold? And if so, Councilmember Kaplan, could you tell me where you are holding your money from?

2:53:56 – 2:54:09•RKRob Kaplan

We have a Chautauqua Rangers station that's $900,000 right there. So I would defer to staff to where that would be held from. I don't want to dictate that hold.

Yeah, it's just a question around, you know, so often when we're doing these infrastructure type projects or construction projects, there are contracts, there are things we've already signed, you know, work underway. Is there any of that that would be involved in the Ranger Cottage or anything else that's being proposed here? Because I expect these projects are a little more than just in our heads.

2:57:16•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks for that, Dan. I think, Ryan, you had a clarifying question.

2:57:22 – 2:58:14•RSRyan Schuchard

Yeah, now I'm kind of thinking of a colloquy on this. I'm just like, I don't even know what this is. Now I'm learning about it. So I'm just thinking, so this council is proposing new budget priorities. We are also now proposing places to take funding from. I don't know how to evaluate that one. I feel like one of the lessons from this year is we should be pretty thoughtful about how we're treating capital, capital expenses. So I guess I do, my colloquial question is, does staff have an alternative place to take this from? Or like, would you, I'm sorry, I haven't done, I don't know that I've do

2:58:49 – 2:59:02•RSRyan Schuchard

Go ahead. Dan, do you mind repeating where you're going to get that $600,000 from, again, that Rob is referring to?

2:59:36•ABAaron Brockett

Okay, thanks. I got several people lined up here. Are you done, Ryan?

2:59:39 – 3:00:09•RSRyan Schuchard

No, that was my original question. It was really to ask the similar question for Matt's where his money was coming from. But now I'm just thinking, can you just clarify an area or staff when will if we did not do this relocation now and then we have the October 22nd discussion and we say, OK, we do need a few million dollars. This that would happen in December is when we would be able to do that again. So this would be a matter of waiting a couple of months to do it and not on the fly at the dais sort of thing. Okay.

3:00:10•ABAaron Brockett

I'll leave it at that. Good enough. Right. Taisha, and then I got Matt with a clarifying one after that. And then hopefully we can get to opinions here soon.

3:00:19 – 3:00:54•TATaishya Adams

So, one, this is the process, and we talked about changing the process last year, and here we are with the same one. So I just want to honor that, although I appreciate people's concerns around this process, we needed to change the process, but we need to live with what we have. Having said that, you gave information about the probability of what we would lose if we didn't do those renovations to the Chautauqua, but I just wanted to ask about there is still a possibility of a wildfire that would take that whole thing out if we don't accelerate on the mitigation that needs to be done, correct?

3:01:06 – 3:01:27•TATaishya Adams

I just wanted to honor the trade-offs that we are seriously talking about here. And although I care that they waited four years and they may have to wait another, I just want to be real that there is a possibility that if we do not accelerate on the wildfire mitigation across the board, that the things that we want to do in that CIP will not even be a possibility. That is an option.

3:02:22 – 3:03:06•MBMatt Benjamin

So Dan, this is exactly why we're out of phase on this is our budget. And yet in three weeks, we're talking about the wildfire stuff because that's exactly the context that informs this conversation right here. So I appreciate you bringing that up. I'm just glad that we were able to extricate those details So what I'm hearing is of that 6.5 to 10 million of enhancements that is forecasted at the October 22nd meeting, you're saying about 1 to maybe 2 million? 1.5 to 2.2. 1.5 to 2.2. Is there draft numbers? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, again, but we're trying to set a ballpark here. It would be more di

3:03:15 – 3:04:33•MBMatt Benjamin

So we're narrowing it in here, which is great. That first reading should have done that maybe six months ago. We don't need the side commentary on what staff could have done. But here we are, and that's why this is going to take a while tonight, because we're trying to zero in on these core pieces. This is what tonight's going to have to be. So again, now that we're getting more details live, we're going to adjust the recommendation live. If that is an open space contribution, then the $4 million is not a necessary number for next year. It looks like it is in more the $1 to $2.5 million rough

3:04:33 – 3:05:20•ABAaron Brockett

So yeah, I'll go ahead and say something next. So here, thanks for modifying the proposal, Matt. And then we have Rob is suggesting a $600,000 hold. And then what I'd say is maybe the third alternative, as I understand it, would be to adopt the budget as proposed. HAVE THE OCTOBER 22ND STUDY SESSION, LOOK AT WHAT THE CRITICAL NEEDS ARE AND WHAT COUNCIL FEELS LIKE WE SHOULD PRIORITIZE FINANCIALLY, AND THEN POTENTIALLY WE COULD GIVE DIRECTION ON OCTOBER 22ND TO START TO CRAFT AN ATB THAT MET THOSE NEEDS WHILE, YOU KNOW, MAKING THE TRADE-OFFS THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY. SO I SAY THAT MIGHT BE THE TH

3:05:46•ABAaron Brockett

I think that's what we've got out on the table. I would love to start getting opinions so we can get to the will of counsel here. But I see we've got a couple of hands here, Taisha.

3:05:55 – 3:06:51•TMTina Marquis

So in the third case scenario, and obviously everyone is hearing this conversation and understands the urgency around the wildfire mitigation piece. Would staff begin to start thinking, from your perspective, what would be the best places to look? Because I don't really want to pick projects on the fly tonight. And I don't think that would be a great form of governance. But could we get some ideas around the end of October? You'll be understanding what the numbers are and what we could move forward with. And I'm not even sure it's out of open space. So I don't know. General funding is flexible

3:07:19•ABAaron Brockett

Okay. And Nicole and then Tayshia for clarifying, and then we'll get to opinions. No. I got Tayshia, and then we'll come back to Rob.

3:07:26 – 3:07:53•TATaishya Adams

Just point of clarification on the income ring, sorry. future councils on budget stuff so my concern is if we don't make the decision today you do it in October but then will the new council be seated in December to then make that question and with that compromise the integrity of the work that we need to do thank you Rob that's a question that was oh well I guess I mean

3:07:56•ABAaron Brockett

Well, as I understand it, on October 2nd, 22nd, council could give direction but could not bind the council that is seated in December to adopt that direction.

3:08:24 – 3:08:41•TMTina Marquis

Can I call a plea on that? With the significant change in council, though, couldn't they overturn almost anything at that point? I mean, I wouldn't worry personally about that because if there's a, I mean, there are six people up for election at this point. So they can undo anything we do.

3:08:41•ABAaron Brockett

Okay. Rob, did you have a clarifying question? And then I'd love to get to opinions.

3:08:47 – 3:09:04•RKRob Kaplan

I did. I'll try to be quick. Whether it's 2.5 million or 600,000, Will the result be the same for an ATB2 versus a realignment versus, well, I guess that I'm going to use the word realignment instead of holding.

3:09:53•RKRob Kaplan

Got it. So realignment would be 27 and not affect 26.

3:10:31•ABAaron Brockett

All right. So if people can now weigh in on what approach they would prefer to take so we can get to Will Council here. And I think, Nicole, you've been waiting to speak to that.

Yeah. If we have to say options, I would just be interested in moving forward as we are. I think that the right time to have this is after our October 22nd meeting and in any future ATBs. With these two particular proposals that are out there, I just want to remind us that one thing community has repeatedly told us this past year and a half or so is that they do not want us to use open space funds for anything other than open space. Whether we agree with it or not, The idea that we would raid the open space budget as times got tight has been a longstanding major fear of our community. My conce

3:12:02 – 3:13:22•ABAaron Brockett

Okay, other thoughts? Well, I can call myself here and say that I really appreciate, Matt, you did a real deep dive on the potential needs. And we all know the extremely high prioritization for wildfire mitigation. And Rob, thanks for bringing this forward as well. From my understanding of it, the sequencing is tricky here, given that we haven't had the October 22nd study session. I'm really looking forward to that and to seeing the analysis from the different departments that are working on this to see where the areas of greatest need and greatest opportunity are. SO I WANT TO HAVE THAT CONVE

3:13:22 – 3:14:34•RSRyan Schuchard

Thanks yeah I have a similar thought Aaron as you and you know we need we need a a transformative five, 10 plus year project, but we need to also balance the urgency to get started with the care to do this right. I'm uncomfortable with doing this on the fly to try to name certain amounts of money where it might come from. And I think the right way to do this is we direct policy, staff works on policy, they bring work forward, that's exactly what they're doing. The budget that's coming to us now has enhanced strategies for wildfire. We have a proposal coming up. Looks like this might take a cou

3:14:36•ABAaron Brockett

Other thoughts before we go to the straw poll? Tina.

3:14:40 – 3:15:18•TMTina Marquis

Yeah, just following up, I don't know, my mic is so loud. It's driving me crazy. So another option would be to, when we're looking at where we can realign funding, it might make sense through the CAC process to find more time, because I don't want us to be throwing out projects and finding out that, oh, it was grant funding, or oh, it's halfway done. If there's any way that we can build some time so that we can make sure we're wisely doing that funding reallocation from other projects, whether it's outside of open space, that would be great if that is where we end up after October 22nd.

3:15:28 – 3:16:07•ABAaron Brockett

Very good. Okay, so I'll go ahead and straw poll the options in the order in which they were presented. So looking at Matt's revised for two to two and a half million. So raise your hand if that's the direction you'd like to go in. All right, we've got three. And now Rob's. You only get one vote, Rob. So Rob's for 600. Well, in the first round, you only get one vote. But then we'll drop off the lowest vote getter. if there's not a majority. Got it. So for your first vote, Rob's proposal for $600,000. I can't vote.

3:16:08 – 3:16:19•MBMatt Benjamin

That doesn't make any sense. That doesn't make any sense. OK. All right. I want to make. We just straw polled my proposal, and that just got rejected. It's off the table. You straw polled a $600,000, and it's a separate proposal. If it lives or dies, it goes .

3:16:19 – 3:16:42•ABAaron Brockett

Sure. That's fine. OK. So then we'll treat it as multiple straw polls. So the straw poll number one is would we like to go with Matt's proposal? So who would like to go with Matt's proposal? Okay, we've got three votes. Okay, so that does not have a majority. So we'll then take that one off the table, and then we'll straw poll who would like to go with Rob's approach. But I've got another question.

3:16:45 – 3:16:56•RKRob Kaplan

I don't want to direct staff. I want them to tell us. I mean, OSMP knows where the money is coming from. is available.

3:16:57•ABAaron Brockett

But I believe I heard you say it would be a realignment from the open space CIP budget.

3:17:01 – 3:17:24•RKRob Kaplan

Yeah, I mean, based on conversations I've had, but they're the experts. I mean, this is the problem. I hear you need to say where the money is coming from in one breath. And then in the other breath, you can't tell staff what to do. So I'm confused. All right.

3:17:24 – 3:17:44•ABAaron Brockett

And if I can reduce the crosstalk here, folks, if you don't mind, let's have one person talking at a time. So I think it would need to be from a general direction. So you could say anywhere from the OSMP budget. You could say from the OSMP CIP budget. But, yeah, you don't have to necessarily pick out a line item, but you need some general direction.

3:17:44•RKRob Kaplan

All right. The general direction would be the CIP or reserves.

3:17:48•ABAaron Brockett

Okay. So you're suggesting real line. And if we can not have the crosstalk, please, folks.

3:18:05 – 3:18:22•ABAaron Brockett

Okay, so Rob's proposal is realigning $600,000 from the OSMP CIP and or reserves. Okay, so that's what's on the table. Straw poll, all in favor of doing that, raise your hand. So we got four. So that's a deadlock.

3:18:31 – 3:18:59•ABAaron Brockett

So our straw poll... shows not a majority for that one, but not a majority for the other approach either. Yeah, Mary, did you have? And then, well, and then the third option is to wait until after October 22nd. So kind of all in favor of taking that approach, raise your hand. What's that?

Just a clarifying question. We're not, it's not a do we agree to changes that we don't know about yet. It's sort of we'll have a discussion, and if anything emerges from that, we would talk about it then. Is that right? Correct.

3:19:12•ABAaron Brockett

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think we know the answer, but all in favor of taking that approach of waiting until after October 22nd, raise your hand.

3:19:23 – 3:19:44•ABAaron Brockett

Okay. Let me rephrase here. Okay, for when we were dealing with ROBS, we have at this point two alternatives, taking the $600,000, doing the realignment, or waiting until after October 22nd. Okay, so I'm going to straddle those two alternatives, because you can vote for one or the other. Okay?

3:19:44•TMTina Marquis

Can I amend ROBS? Just from any CIP budget? Not necessarily open space.

3:20:02•ABAaron Brockett

OK, so we have a revised proposal from Tina.

3:20:05•TMTina Marquis

I'm just keeping it as open as possible. I can't direct staff's CIP budget right now. I have no idea.

3:20:29•ABAaron Brockett

Last straw poll, which is there are going to be two alternatives. One is taking Rob's proposal, OSMP, CIP, or reserves. The alternative is to wait until after October 22nd.

3:20:39•RKRob Kaplan

CIP or, oh, you said reserves. Said that.

3:20:42•ABAaron Brockett

So all in favor of Rob's proposal, raise your hand. Okay. Four. And all in favor of waiting until after October 22nd. Okay.

3:20:57 – 3:21:08•ABAaron Brockett

But we do have to vote separately on the actual budget ordinances. Okay, so that doesn't move forward at this time. Thanks for working through that with us. Nicole?

I was just wondering if I could make a motion.

3:21:11 – 3:21:22•ABAaron Brockett

Not quite, because we still have to deal with Taisha's. So Taisha, your suggestion was to repurpose, I think it was at $1.2 million from the police fund towards the care program?

3:21:22 – 3:22:07•TATaishya Adams

I'm not suggesting the whole amount but I am suggesting a partial amount towards partnering with organizations. The alternative policing component of the reimagining policing plan talks about the police working with partners but when you look at their plan most of if not all of it is internal and there's not actually partnerships with other partners, particularly to address the non-emergency 911 calls. And so I am suggesting a portion of that $1.2 million to be repurposed to a partner organization that can offer mental health and behavioral. That is what I'm recommending.

3:22:09 – 3:22:24•TATaishya Adams

I would defer that to staff because I don't know what the partnership totals would be. And I would leave it to their discretion on what that would be. As opposed to the none that is there now. Thank you.

3:22:24•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks. Who would like to speak to the substance of that before we do a straw poll? Yeah. Quite clarifying question from Nicole.

I WAS JUST WONDERING IF YOU COULD REMIND ME, SORRY, IT'S BEEN A YEAR AND I DON'T REMEMBER FROM LAST YEAR. THERE WERE SOME REASONS FOR WHY WE CHOSE TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE CARE PROGRAM BASED ON OUR OUTCOME BASED BUDGET. I WAS JUST WONDERING IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO THAT.

3:23:13 – 3:23:36•TATaishya Adams

Also just clarification, like I did, council member share the outcomes from that and the concerns that there were low numbers. And I was suggesting that the pilot did not run for a sufficient amount of time in order to actually determine the efficacy of the thing. So I actually was challenging the pilot in my initial comments. Thank you.

3:25:48•TATaishya Adams

Given that, I will withdraw my amendment. Thank you.

3:25:52 – 3:26:13•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks, Tash. And I'll just speak just additionally to this that thanks, Wendy, for the explanation. The care program was something that I championed a few years ago and was really glad that we stood it up. But I also understand the reasons for the reorganization. but very much look forward to the reformation of that response team. Absolutely. Under the new structure. Thank you.

I just want to make sure I'm crystal clear on this because I know it's been an area of interest for our community too. So you're saying that we are moving toward a model where we will have some behavioral health responders who will be going out in certain circumstances without police. That's correct. Thank you.

3:26:35 – 3:26:47•ABAaron Brockett

And, um, Nicole, before I just get back to you for emotion, I just said, no, I just wanted to follow up on one thing from the public testimony, which was about the flexible rebate program. Could you just speak real quickly to how that's structured and what it's looking like in 2027?

3:27:22•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks. Appreciate that. You were offering a motion before, Nicole.

THAT. SO I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE. SO I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE. WAIT, CAN I GET THE MOTION WAIT, CAN I GET THE MOTION LANGUAGE? LANGUAGE? I THOUGHT I HAD IT IN FRONT OF I THOUGHT I HAD IT IN FRONT OF ME. ME. THERE ARE FOUR OF THEM. THERE ARE FOUR OF THEM. AND JUST ONE AT A TIME, RIGHT? AND JUST ONE AT A TIME, RIGHT? THAT'S THE WAY WE'RE GOING THAT'S THE WAY WE'RE GOING THROUGH IT. THROUGH IT. I MOTION TO INTRODUCE AN ORDER I MOTION TO INTRODUCE AN ORDER PUBLISHED BY TITLE ONLY, PUBLISHED BY TITLE ONLY, ORDINANCE 8777, ADOPTING A BUDGET ORDINANCE 8777, ADOPTING A BUDGET

3:27:57•ABAaron Brockett

Second. And what I might say is at this moment, if people wanted to offer a few brief general thoughts on the budget, let's say now is the time. So, Nicole, do you want to speak to your motion?

Just very briefly, I already said it, but thank you, staff. I know this is really hard. It is your people and your programs and your services to community that are impacted, and I just want to thank you. I know this is really hard work, and despite the fact All the sort of sadness and grief that you're holding for each other and for our whole community, you've still brought us a balanced budget, and you've done it in a way that minimizes the cuts, and I know that they will still hurt a lot of folks in our community, but I just want to thank you. This work is hard, and you've done it well.

3:28:44 – 3:29:10•RSRyan Schuchard

Similar. I'm really excited about this budget. And, you know, with so many headwinds, it reflects some really important strategic improvements. I really see a lot or I'm sort of foreseeing a lot in the wildfire work and the change in prioritization that already the customer experience hub and that area of work I'm really excited about. And so, yeah, I'm really proud to support this budget and looking forward to 27.

3:29:20 – 3:31:56•MBMatt Benjamin

I want to commend staff for the hard work, the tremendous complexity that our budget has. As Ryan mentioned, the headwinds we face. And what I also want to say and it is not a reflection on staff in any way is our budget process is fully busted. The fact that it is October 1st and we are by request of counsel in an amendments to first reading finally having a conversation of trade-offs is beyond frustrating and impossible for us as a body of eight to confidently say we own this budget. These conversations have to happen months ago. If we want to move things around or tweak, the budget that we

3:32:00 – 3:32:28•TWTara Winer

Okay. First of all, I'm very impressed with the budget cuts. I know that sounds weird, but it's not easy to make budget cuts and you guys did a really great job. And the second thing I want to say is when we do have more money, I want us to consider the parks and rec budget has been, hasn't, has it even increased in a really long time? I don't think that it has. And I would like us to consider increasing it compared to the other

3:32:29 – 3:35:07•TATaishya Adams

Thank you. Setting the strategic direction, oversight, and resource allocation is the most important responsibility that the council has. In the three years that I have been able to serve, there are many things that I have been proud of and proud of working with staff and colleagues around. However, I continue to be disappointed around the ways that we set strategic priorities. We're in the midst of a strategic plan update that would essentially fund then, we would tend to fund, but the process that we have doesn't allow that to happen. Our oversight is uneven. There's areas where there is sig

3:35:09 – 3:36:37•TMTina Marquis

Tina. So thank you for all the work in the budget. And this budget, you know, one of the trends we're seeing is that our total revenues sources did grow by $20 million, but our expenses grew faster. And that's a common theme that we're seeing that we, I believe we just need to take a longer term structural look at how this is going to work over time. um, without any major new sources of revenue. I do hope we did get those new sources of revenue and I hope we see them in coming years, but we also need to be, um, I'm concerned that we're making very small cuts every year that are not as long. I

3:36:37 – 3:38:56•ABAaron Brockett

I'll call on myself and thank staff for their exemplary work on preparing this extremely complicated budget that does incorporate many many trade-offs in it. There are significant budget reductions in numerous areas, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness with which those were done, while also allocating additional monies to priorities like wildfire prevention and making sure that our staff is paid fairly. So I appreciate the approach that you've taken there. The timing with the detailed wildfire meeting has made this a tough discussion. I appreciate the conversation tonight about how to manage t

Sure. Motion to, I move to introduce an order published by title only, Ordinance 8778, establishing the City of Boulder property tax mill levies for 2026, providing that said levy be certified to the Boulder County Assessor and setting forth related details.

3:39:46•ABAaron Brockett

Second. Motion to second. Roll call, please, Emily.

I make a motion to introduce an order published by title only, Ordinance 8779, appropriating money to defray expenses and liabilities of the City of Boulder, Colorado for the 2027 fiscal year of the City of Boulder, and setting forth related details.

3:40:34•ABAaron Brockett

We need a second. Second. Motion to second, roll call please.

I make a motion to introduce an order published by Title Only, Ordinance 8780, amending Title II, Government Organization, Title III, Revenue and Taxation, Title IV, Licenses and Permits, Title V, General Offenses, Title VI, Health, Safety, and Sanitation, Title VII, Vehicles, Pedestrians, and Parking, and Title VIII, Parks, Open Spaces, Streets, and Public Ways, BRC 1981, Changing Certain Fees and Taxes, and setting forth related details.

3:42:08 – 3:42:19•ABAaron Brockett

Thanks so much. Well, that brings us to the end of our agenda item, and thanks again to staff for all your incredibly hard work on this very complicated budget. We've got one last thing, Item 8A.

3:42:33 – 3:43:19•ABAaron Brockett

I'LL SPEAK TO THIS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I ASKED THAT WE SCHEDULE WHICH IS A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THE COUNCIL WANTS TO TAKE A POSITION OF SUPPORT ON THE FRONT RANGE PASSENGER RAIL SALES TAX MEASURE WHICH WOULD FUND THE COCOA TRAIN WHICH WOULD PROVIDE TRAIN SERVICE FROM FORT COLLINS THROUGH BOULDER TO DENVER AND ALL THE WAY TO PUEBLO. I WON'T GO INTO ANY MORE DETAILS THAN THAT. BUT UNLESS THERE'S ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO HAVE SOME DISCUSSION, I CAN JUST CALL FOR A SHOW OF Let's draw a poll about whether we'd like to take position of support on this. Raise your hand if you're in favor. That's un