City Council - Regular Meeting

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crowd we'll call the committee of the whole meeting for the elgin city council for july 22nd 2026 to order will the court please call the roll council members alvaro present dixon good here martinez here ortiz here powell here stephan here thorne here mayor captain here approval of minutes of the previous meeting of july 8th so moved second moved and second for approval any discussion corrections or additions Hearing none, clerk, please call the roll.

Councilmember Zafaro? Yes. Dixon? Yes. Good? Yes. Martinez? Yes. Ortiz? Yes. Powell? Yes. Stephan?

Yes.

Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. Motion's approved 9-0. We have any public comments this evening? None of none. Mr.

Manager? Thank you, Mayor. This evening, I guess we get to practice that old adage that they talk about in Illinois. There's two seasons, construction season and winter. We're in construction season and we're finishing up with the initiatives that Mike Poobin started at the beginning of this year. These two initiatives related to Shales Parkway and East Side Street resurfacing project. and then also the McClure Avenue and other related streets resurfacing projects. We have engineering services agreements on the committee of the whole agenda, and then later this evening we'll be approving the construction bids for these two projects. So we're gonna start off first with the resolution for improvement under the Illinois Highway Code for the Shales Parkway and East Side Streets 2026 resurfacing project. This MFT construction resolution, as it's commonly called, identifies the city's plan for allocating its motor fuel tax funds for the construction and construction engineering services related to the improvements within this project. With this resolution, staff are presenting the project limits and scope of the work for the Shales Parkway and East Side Streets 2026 resurfacing project, as well as the estimates for the cost of construction and the cost of construction engineering services related to the projects. This resolution is required because the city is using MFT funds for this particular resurfacing project.

Move approval.

Second. It's been moved and seconded for approval. Any discussion? Hearing none, please call the roll.

Councilmember Zafaro? Yes. Dixon?

Yes.

Good.

Yes.

Martinez? Yes. Ortiz?

Yes.

Powell? Yes. Steffen?

Yes.

Dorn?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes.

Motions approve 9-0. Item B is a construction engineering services agreement with Farrah Graham for the 2026 Shales Parkway and Eastside Street resurfacing project. This authorizes Farrah Graham to oversee the construction of the Shales Parkway east side street resurfacing project providing field inspection design interpretation contract administration project coordination that will all ensure the timely and proper completion of the work the project area includes east side streets including portions of North Gifford Street Jefferson Street Martin Drive Chippewa Drive Duncan Avenue River Bluff Road Prospect Boulevard Augusta Avenue in the south continuation of shales Parkway this is also being funded with motor fuel tax revenue

Move for approval. Second.

It's been moved and seconded for approval. Any discussion? Ms. Alfaro.

Thank you. I just have a question for staff. Just clarification on the number because A and B are semi-link. And in A, the projected engineering cost that we had put the information to IDOT was $180,000, but this is $170,000. So I just wanted to make sure that it will stay at $170,000 as of now.

um I I think that that's an estimate so what happens when we put out the idot that's we believe that it was going to be in 180 so yes it's going to be the agreement with fairgram is 170 so that's what the amount will be okay thank you okay anything else please call the roll yes Dixon yes good yes Martinez yes Ortiz yes Powell yes Stefan

Yes.

Warren? Yes. Mayor Captain?

Yes, the motion's approved 9-0. Item C is the second amendment to an existing construction engineering services agreement with Engineering Enterprises Inc, commonly referred to as EEI. This is for the McClure Avenue resurfacing project. This is a project using riverboat funds and there is a construction bid for this on the regular agenda. In this instance, EEI will be overseeing the construction of the McClure Avenue 2026 resurfacing project, conducting field inspections, design interpretation, contract administration, and project coordination. The project area includes portions of McClure Avenue, including access to Wing Park, Gerta Street, Crystal Avenue, Schiller Street, Buckeye Street, Judy Court, Pine Street, Bird Street, as well as Walnut Avenue resurfacing between State Street and Wilcox Avenue.

moved and second for approval any discussion mr ortiz they have some friends that live over behind wing park over there and that and that whatever the east exit behind the golf course and uh i'm pretty sure i know they'll be appreciative of us resurfacing their streets over there now and then also majority of the city of elgin with resurfacing of walnut

so uh thank you to mr poobins and the city manager's office and anybody else involved to make sure these streets get the tender loving care that they deserved anything else i very much appreciate the walnut avenue work every time i go down there it's a new treat okay clerk please call the roll

Councilmember Zaffaro? Yes. Dixon? Yes. Good. Yes. Martinez? Yes. Ortiz?

Yes.

Powell? Yes. Steffen? Yes. Dorn? Yes. Mayor Captain?

Yes. Motions approved 9-0. Item D is a proposed agreement with United Door and Lock for the Public Works Facility Credential Gate Access System. This gate access system for the exterior storage area is obsolete. Replacing the gate system with a proven access control platform similar to that being used by the police department secured vehicle lot is being recommended at this time. The existing system is more than 10 years old and has exceeded its useful service life and it's no longer supported by the manufacturer. The proposed replacement will enhance facility security, reliability, and operational efficiency, along with standardizing vehicle access technology between both the police department and the public services department. This new system will allow authorized police department vehicles to access the public works facility after hours for fleet service needs, improving interdepartmental coordination while also maintaining a secure and controlled access to the city facility. Move approval.

Second. Second. Moved and seconded for approval. Any discussion? Ms. Powell.

Yes. Just a clarification question. In terms of the gate access, is it tied just to the vehicle, or can people use their ID? IDs. Just strictly IDs. And then so if someone separates from the city and their ID, I'm assuming, is deactivated, obviously they can't access the facility. Correct.

Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Okay. Mr. Ortiz. A continuation of Ms. Powell's question, and I should have asked this sooner, so sorry. It says that we have 250 quantities for the tags. Would that be enough if we're going to allow the police department in there also to drop off their vehicles when needed and for public works staff? Or what's the tags for?

would imagine i don't know the answer to that specifically but i imagine that the 250 was identified to precisely accomplish that purpose i'm pointing to the two police officers in the field but i'm not expecting them to know the specifics on this this is a building maintenance initiative we know that the police department's gate access system has been working incredibly well and that's why we're transferring it here I'm assuming somebody made the determination the 250 is going to do it.

Okay.

I can get that positive information back for you before the final vote on this in two weeks.

All right. I just want to make sure we have enough. All right. Thank you. Anything else?

Clerk, please call the roll.

Council Member Zafaro? Yes. Dixon? Yes. Good. Yes. Martinez? Yes. Ortiz? Yes. Powell? Yes. Stefan? Yes. Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes, the motion's approved 9-0. Item E is an agreement with vehicle service group LLC for a heavy duty vehicle lift at fire station seven. Earlier this year, the city completed the transition of fire department fleet maintenance operations to the public works fleet services division. We established the dedicated maintenance operation at Fire Station 7 that is now staffed by three full-time professional fleet mechanics. As part of that transition, staff identified several facility improvements necessary to fully support the city's expanded in-house maintenance capabilities. In this instance, staff is recommending the purchase of a rotary 20,000 pound two post vehicle lift. The equipment represents the first major infrastructure investment support is this new fleet maintenance operation and provides lifting capacity necessary to safely and efficiently perform maintenance on certain heavy emergency vehicles. The procurement is being completed through the HGAC by cooperative purchasing program. So this provides competitive pricing while eliminating the need for a separate competitive bidding process by the city.

Move for approval.

Second. Second. Moved and seconded for approval. Any discussion? Mr. Stephan.

Yeah, I just wanted to point out that on the other agenda, item four and other business, we're taking care of what I think we all hope wouldn't be one of the last time we're paying the bigger bucks for sending our fire equipment out for service. And this is an example of how I think staff is finding ways to help save us money by bringing it in house. So just wanted to point that out. Yeah, you are correct. Thank you.

Anything else? Clerk, please call the roll.

Councilmember Zalparo? Yes. Dixon? Yes. Good. Yes. Martinez? Yes. Ortiz? Yes. Powell? Yes. Steffen?

Yes.

Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. Motions approved 9-0. Before I start on item F, Councilmember Powell, I received information from the mothership indicating that there are transponders that are included in all of the vehicles, not a key access system. and the additional 250 IDs are for public works vehicles. Council member Ortiz, police department already has the transponders on their vehicles. So wonder how technology works that way to get me up to speed. exactly yes and so it's transponders for each for each police vehicle the additional 250 you're doing the math correctly is for the public works vehicles that do not have those thanks to Michael Baird my voice in the sky who helped me with that information thank you Item F, school resource officer agreement with school district U46. The city has been partnering with school district U46 since 1987 to provide school resource officers at Abbott, now Legacy West, and Ellis, now Legacy East schools, middle schools, along with Kimball and Larson middle schools. Can't talk. And at the Elgin, Larkin, and Gifford Street high schools. The police presence fosters strong partnerships between the department and school staff and also creates a positive relationship with the students. This agreement requires the school district to reimburse the city approximately $600,000 of the $1.4 million annual in wage benefit costs for the seven police officers.

Move for approval. Second. Second.

Moved and seconded for approval. Any discussion? Mr. Ortiz.

uh it might be for the fine men in blue or it might be city manager's office i'm not too sure or a fine man only one person for uh i guess we're coining these legacy east and west now even though i'm still going to call them abbott and ellis what we know those schools are closing this year is the last school year so we're gonna WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TWO LESS OFFICER RESOURCE OFFICERS FOR THE FOLLOWING SCHOOL YEAR. BUT ARE WE GOING TO MAN THE NEW SCHOOL SINCE IT'S IN ELGIN ON THE FAR EAST SIDE?

YEAH, SO WE HAD DISCUSSED WHAT WE WOULD DO. SO LEGACY EAST AND WEST IS SPLIT JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH THE STUDENTS. AND I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT A FLOW CHART TO SHOW YOU WHERE EVERYBODY'S GOING. BUT ESSENTIALLY, WHEN LEGACY IS BUILT OUT THERE ON GORSON, The plan is that our SRO that's at Ellis, which would no longer be open, would fill that spot at Legacy because those are still essentially all Ellis kids that are now going out to Legacy. It's just six, seven, and eight instead of seven and eight. So we would really only be losing one spot. We had briefly discussed what that would be like, but we didn't really want to get into the weeds on that before this contract was settled. And then there's also the, we would be operating under the assumption that legacy is going to be built on time. So we're just sticking with this as a school year goes, we'll discuss what options that could be, whether it's, an eighth that does something different, whether we lose it, maybe it's something that we staff as the police department, but we don't ask the school to reimburse. There's all kinds of options out there that we'll work on during the school year, but there's no definitive answer for that one spot right now, but the other spot that Ellis SRO will just transfer to legacy.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. Commander. Okay.

So far. I have a couple of questions. Um, out of the seven officers, how many of them are bilingual in Spanish?

How many of them are bilingual in Spanish? Right now, let's see. Ricardo is bilingual. Jasmine, Raina. I'm trying to go down by each school.

I want to say one, two, three, four or five.

Four or five are. So Detective Salgado at Larkin is bilingual. Detective Quintana at Elgin is bilingual. Detective Cortez at Larson is bilingual. Um, detective Munoz is going to be the new SRO at Kimball and she's bilingual detective Hernandez. Who's at central is bilingual. I think the only two that aren't are detective Kim and Jaron and detective Jackson.

No, I appreciate that given that the schools are heavily Latino and just ensuring that there's, so I appreciate that. So thank you. Um, the other questions I had are, um, it had talked about in the contract that, you know, the officer can make arrests if needed on camp on school grounds. How many arrests have SORs SROs done in the last year?

So those were numbers that, um, that I pulled anticipating some questions. So, um, In the 2024-2025 school year, and I just want to be clear, when I say arrest, it may be different than the way the school marks an arrest or what people think is arrest. Arrest, when I say it, is somebody was actually charged and put through the court system, right? So they came down to the station at some point. got their charges filed against them. This is not a citation. This is not school discipline. This is what you would consider, you know, an arrest, not all of them with handcuffs, but essentially kind of almost that level. So for 2024 and 2025, that school year, which was two years ago, um, which was the last full school year before the new, uh, state law, there were, 21, I found two more, so it wasn't 19. It was 21 arrests. And then this last school year, the most recent school year, 2025, 2026, it was 41.

Do you have any data on why it was an uptake?

Um, because citations aren't available anymore. So that's part of the new law. You can't write a city ordinance ticket inside school during school hours on school grounds. Um, so that option was taken away from officers. So when school discipline didn't fit, um, they were kind of forced now, like if it's to an arrest level, like, uh, say one of the things that I had talked about with councilwoman Powell was like a battery, right. But something that's not so egregious doesn't rise to like a felony, but kids fight. um and maybe it's multiple times so you it's outside of school discipline before we could write a city ordinance ticket they would come on our juvenile court date here and they would generally get services they either get referred to our yep program maybe they get some counseling services from our social services sometimes they've had to write papers all kinds of things that we would do for them outside of trying to you know trying to keep the monetary fine away from them That option is not there anymore. So if there's now going to be a charge for battery, that's an arrest for battery.

Okay. My next question was on tickets and citations because I was still on the contract that the SORO can provide citations.

The citations that are written in there, you can't write a city ordinance ticket on school grounds during school property. The only ones that are generally still allowed in there would be like traffic violations. So if somebody was doing something crazy in their car out there, you could still write traffic tickets. Okay. But as far as like the city ordinances for fighting, vaping, just the general kind of what we would consider like those juvenile type things or things that might happen in school. We can't write those anymore.

By any chance, do you have the data from 2024, 2025 on tickets and citations? Yes, I do.

Uh, so we wrote 123 tickets in the 2024, 2025 school year. And that would range from anything. Like I was just saying, uh, battery, uh, We generally didn't do truancy, but vaping, harassment, stuff like that. Any kind of misdemeanor that falls within our municipal code would be those 123. That's not inclusive of the YEP referrals. YEP referrals are, I didn't count, because there's hundreds of those.

Would it be safe to say then, because if it's 123 tickets, right, and then there was only 21 arrests in 2024 to 2025, and then in 2025, 2026 at 41, right, that's a lot more tickets than people are getting arrested for. So it's like the officer is using the discretion. I think it was more the school.

took on more responsibility to handle it at their level as far as discipline. And I know U46 being one of the second biggest school district in the state, put in a lot of resources to give kids kind of the things that we were giving here, like more counseling, more options, bigger referrals to our YEP program. So now each school actually has some sort of YEP program running in it, but that only started last year as far as every school having it. And one of the numbers, that Councilwoman Powell and I talked about earlier was of the 41 arrests from this year, 31 of those could have been tickets.

Oh, interesting. One more question. Sorry, I'm writing that down. By any chance, do you know on, it's page three of the memo, page 79 in the packet, the budget impact, the amount available, there is a typo. Do you know what the exact amount available is in there? for the general fund? Maybe this is a city manager question.

Yeah, it's just an extra dollar sign, it looks like, so it's $2.8 million.

Oh, so it's 2.8, so it's not supposed to be 12 or something? No. Okay. Thank you.

Thanks for handling that one for me.

Ms. Powell. Ms. Powell.

Thank you. And thanks for taking my phone call today and answering some of these questions. Some of them have been brought forward already in terms of number of tickets, number of arrests. You alluded to the change in law at the state level that took effect earlier this year. Can you kind of walk us through what that change was and how it affected how we do things here in Elgin?

Yeah. So, um, as mentioned, the biggest one for us was the no citations on school grounds during school hours or during school events. So like you can't even write kids like tickets if they're on a bus, not on school property. Right. So it's encompassing if they're doing school activities, no tickets. That was the biggest change for us. Um, and as we had talked about, because we had worked probably pretty hard over the last five years of really doing something you know, juvenile focused here in town with, with starting. Yep. Going through that, having a specific juvenile court date here. Um, and all the tickets that come in, I wish Jeff Adam were here to answer it. But I think, like I told you, it's probably like you're, you're talking single digit percent that ultimately ended up in a fine. They, they always found others, some other way to handle the citations. Right. And it's trying to get to the root cause of why the problem happens. Um, and getting them services, getting them some things you need. Some kids are acting out because they just need tutors. Cause they're upset about grades or they just need a job because they're worried about family at home. So it's working stuff like that. And now with not being able to write tickets, we can still do a lot of yet referrals, which we do, which helps. Um, but now in those instances where you're forced to arrest, it's a roundabout way. to get to the same process when you're dealing with Kane County, right? The major differences is we held court once a month for juveniles at four o'clock in the afternoon so that the family was impacted as least as possible as far as trying to leave work and kids weren't at school. Now, if you do it in King County, now you're going down there on a weekday at like 10 o'clock in the morning. So that's an inconvenience. Now, ultimately we have a pretty good relationship with King County. I said a lot of times that may just come back to a lot of the same things with counseling or some other options. Elgin High School, which lies in Cook County, those families got to go all the way to Rolling Meadows now. That's 9 o'clock in the morning, right? And Cook County is not as great working with us on that stuff, so a lot of times stuff goes down there. And nothing happens for those kids, right? They just, they don't have time to deal with it or they don't want to deal with that, the, that low level kind of stuff. So nothing happens except you've wasted the family's time. You've wasted the kid's time if they're out of school and now ultimately getting to the, you know, what is causing that problem to begin with. There's nothing there for them or there's nothing to hold them to that. So those are the biggest issues with that, all the rest of the stuff. And I think, uh, Corporation counsel could probably tell you a lot of the stuff that changed in the law is a lot of stuff that we were already doing. A lot of it wasn't writing. A lot of it wasn't necessarily in writing, but we were doing it anyway, and it was just putting it in the MOU and just adding a few things here and there that we've basically been doing. So outside of the tickets, it wasn't a huge change.

Great. Thank you for that explanation, because I'm sure when people hear that arrest, you know, and for our media that's listening, you know, It went up from 21 arrests in school year 24-25 to 41 arrests in school year 25-26. That's a pretty big jump. Thank you for explaining why we saw that jump and that 31 of those 41, if we were using our old program, would not have ended up there. And I think that's the point we really need to look at. And we talked about reaching out to some of our state legislators to see if there's a way that we can work with them to tweak the legislation. I'm sure they went through this and moved forward with it Good intentions. Probably most of us can remember a really serious article that came out a couple years ago that talked about the number of school arrests throughout the state, how high it was, what the demographics of those arrests looked like. And I'm quite sure this law was crafted in order to try to reduce that tendency, which ranged from high fines, fines that weren't paid going into collections, just all types of ripple of unintended consequences. unnecessary ripple effects that, as you mentioned, are not resolving the initial problem to begin with. So I first want to say thank you to your team at the Elgin Police Department, the work that U-46 is doing, the YEP program, just all the different partners that are in place that we have really seen measurable success. during my years here on the council. On the past couple of years in particular, this has been an issue, we've heard it from the public. This is a win for us. I don't wanna see us go backwards. So I think if we can work with our legislators to tweak that aspect of the law, that will allow us, as one of the larger jurisdictions, that have the ability to have the local adjudication. I think based on the conversation that you and I had earlier, the law was probably crafted in mind thinking about maybe some of the other smaller communities that don't probably have access to a local adjudication system like we do. But in any event, it's worth a discussion, I think, with our legislators to see how we can tweak it to get back to the positive results that we were seeing in the past. The other information that I was interested in, based on the arrest that we did have, this year and last school year, do you have a demographic breakdown of what that looks like?

Yeah. So for the 2024, 2025 of those 21, there's one I don't have data on because that's already been expunged. So we don't have anything on that. So for the 20 that I could get, it was 12 males, eight females, um, rages and ages from 13 up to 18. uh, four African American and 16 Hispanic. And that was the 2024, 2025. Okay. For 25, 26 of those 41, it was 20 males and 21 females. Those ages range from 12 to 17. And the breakdown of that was 10 African American, 28 Hispanic and three Caucasian.

Interesting. All right. That's all I had. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Dixon.

Thank you for coming up and answering some questions. I do have one that I wanted to ask, and that's when we do have to write a ticket, are we still referring kids to the YET program?

Yes. Okay. That is one thing that has remained consistent between the two school years, and that was a message that we made sure we pushed to our school resource officers. We didn't want them to be associated with one another. right like just take the simple one of tobacco use of vaping right where here's a ticket for vaping but i'm also going to refer you to yep which a lot of times when you came into adjudication court that may be the outcome for that anyway If you see that still, even though the school is going to do their discipline, if it's still rises to the level, you think that that child could benefit from being in the yet program still do the yet referral. So those numbers have remained high and they've even, they went up a little bit last year and I would attribute that mostly to just. another year of growth in the program and then getting each school having its own program like in-house that has helped the numbers keep going so then the officers feel more comfortable referring because they know they're going to get a decent outcome with it.

Okay, and so then we're encouraging our officers to do more referrals to the program, to use that discretion versus writing a ticket.

Well, now they can't write a ticket.

Well, not ticket, but the citation.

Can't write it.

Okay, what's the one that we can write? What do you call it?

Just a rest. A rest. Okay, a rest. I'm sorry. I know 41 and 21 seems high, but generally... The discretion with that is a lot, that's all collaboration. That's school administration, that's parents on both sides of the victim and or suspect and the officer talking, is this a multiple time type deal? And those are usually led for, like I was talking with Councilwoman Powell, you're talking like either felony level stuff, something like real serious or school threat stuff, stuff that adjudication is not meant for. all the other stuff and a lot of the yet referrals are also come from things that aren't necessarily crimes they're just indicators you may see right hanging out with gang members stuff like that where you're trying to divert before they even go and and do break any laws or get into trouble or accidentally get themselves involved in a shooting that you don't want to be a part of. But those have consistently gone up, and that remains the number one thing for those officers to do. Because ultimately what that does in a more roundabout way is it still gets them to the services. It still is aimed at getting to the root of the problem for the kids and figuring out what they actually need. Um, if Danny Flores was here to talk about it and talk about all the family visits and the things that he sees when he goes out. And a lot of it, like I said, sometimes it's just, you act out because you're embarrassed because your grades are low because you need some tutoring, but you don't know how to ask for it, or you don't want to do it at school because maybe it's an image thing that you don't want people to see you doing it there, or you don't focus on that. And you're focused over here because you're worried about the money that your family is bringing in, or just like the variant of things that these kids are dealing with that. affect their behavior and we're trying to address that instead of the behavior after the fact with that program.

Okay. So they get arrested on property, right? Taken off and they're transported when they're arrested, right? And then they are written what?

Well, they're, they, they would get, you know, their court essentially, I don't want to call it a summons, but essentially that's what it is. They were, they would have their complaint where they go to their court date. I will tell you that sometimes, uh, we have had King County reached back out to us. So say somebody got arrested, they're down at King County. They're looking to get probation. Probation has called our juvenile detectives before and said, Hey, this, this person says they're part of your yet program. What's that about? Hey, they're in this, this is what they're doing. They're active in it and it goes really well. And sometimes that'll actually account for it'll, it'll take care of their probationary stuff.

Okay.

So we are still, even if they get arrested, if it fits with, sorry, with, uh, being part of the, yep. That's that referral would still happen.

okay that's that's really good um yeah i i am um i'm going to be supporting this of course tonight um i want to give a special thank you to the detectives that are um that are the sros in this program um the old ones and the new ones um i recently attended a yep meeting um to see to check in on things and then you know things don't look like they're working they're working wonderfully and so i'm really really happy about that program and to know that it was born out of the SRO program makes it even better, makes it even sweeter. So keep up the good work. So thank you to EPD and leadership for continuing to support the program and to all the men and women who are working it. So good job.

Thank you. Anything else?

Mr. Ortiz.

I'll be quick, Commander. Sending kids to JJ, see things when I got my gears going. I know we can't. So I'm assuming you said you had a good relationship with King County. And it's been a while since I worked at a JD courtroom. Do you guys still get the dispose after the case closes for evidence destruction? And the reason I'm asking is I like to see how the cases are getting close. Are they doing the same thing as we're doing at the county level as we were doing by doing like writing essays or making them say sorry?

I don't know if they go to that level, but a lot of times it does kind of come back to it. Right. And I would say they are doing very Kane County. does very similar things that we do, their probation. I don't know if they do the essays, but they are more focused on getting to the root cause, whether that's helping through counseling or some of the other things. In my discussion with Councilwoman Powell, the issue with the way the kind of law is now is now that's taking longer, And it's more inconvenience to the family and the juvenile, especially if they're missing school, to go down there for that to take a month for that. And then post-probation, they kind of figure some stuff out and do it. And then as it circles back and then check with us, it's just a bigger inconvenience. Now, cane, they still do that. We still do all the expungements like we have to. For juveniles, that's all changed. That all basically gets wiped out.

Okay. I know Judge Parker is really good on it. allowing the minor and the mother or father, whoever is getting summons to the court to zoom in. So I guess that's a little bit of silver lining, is they're able to zoom in. But also, I'm not a big fan of, for small infractions, sending the kid to JJC. That's not you can do or none of us up here can do is the state's telling us we have to do it.

Yeah, and like I said in those arrests, they're not. I wouldn't consider those anything minor, right? Anything that can be handled at the school level or something else is going. know you're talking more along the lines of like either multiple time offenders or like an aggravated battery or a school threat you know stuff like that it's the uh if kids if two kids get in a fist fight and somebody ends up with a black eye they're not they're not going down there unless you know it's like their sixth fight but if somebody gets you know

got six kids jump on one and that kid ends up with stitches or something like that those you know that changes the aspect a little bit my last question just sprung up is would this count as a point towards a referral for a juvenile through court services so if a kid gets in trouble so many times they get they collect points and then it gets referred to the state's attorney's office for for adjudication no i think i'm getting arrested at school would that count for a point towards court services

That I don't know. I don't know if they get arrested at school, if it counts towards their points. I can know that. Um, I can tell you that if it's multiple times at the school they're handling at that level, that doesn't factor in because the court never gets that information. Right. That all just happens in house.

And that's how that's how I'm now I'm wondering if now that we can't adjudicate here locally now it's going to the county and then the court services gets involved would that be a point towards the kids referral record but that i don't know yeah that i can't answer it i could and hopefully hopefully you know what happens is they they're not in there enough times and it gets wiped out and it's yeah not that big of a deal all right thank you commander you're welcome okay anything else okay clerk please call the roll

customers of our yes yes good yes martinez yes sorties yes yes second yes or yes yes motions approved nine zero analysis from the council so far thank you uh... personally wanna uh... given our next meeting will be uh... in mid august i just want to wish everyone that early unhappy black business month for august and in addition on august 20th it's national latina day and latina to the fourth power is having an event in king county to support latinas and they're looking for nominations so if you know of a trailblazer latina or a latina who could be nominated for volunteer of the year lifetime achievement or women of the year they're accepting nominations until this saturday at 11 59 p.m

Okay, anything else? Mr. Stephan.

Oh, I got two quick ones, I hope, although it wasn't too good at noon today. This Friday is a bike race, the annual Elgin Classic up in the north end. Racing starts around 10.30 in the morning and goes all day until the final race of pros, which ends about 8.30 at night. There's a Food trucks, there's a beer tent, there will be some kids activities, and there's a bike giveaway right at 10.30 in the morning. There's 35 bikes for kids. First come, first serve. We have people lining up a good hour and a half before we even open the gates for bikes, and they're there until they're gone, which doesn't take long. We're looking for volunteers. There's an hour and 20 minutes left of a free dinner. If you sign up, if you're watching right now and you go sign up at our website, you might be able to get to Danny's for the free pizza that we provide to our volunteers, which is going on right now until 8 o'clock. And we're still looking for volunteers if you want to come Friday and help with course marshalling or first aid or some other things. Our website is dentistersmemorialrace.com. and you can find all the information there. The other one I wanted to talk about, because as Deanna pointed out, we're not gonna see each other for a while. The 50th anniversary of the LaSalle Expedition, which we've had a couple of proclamations about, that involved several U46 teachers. One who led it was from a French teacher Larkin High, and all the kids, as I still like to call them, even though they're older than I am, but they were all from Larkin and Elgin High School, so they are all local people. The ceremony and day of recognition is Saturday, August 22nd. The activities will be over in Lords Park around the Elgin Public Museum. They'll go from noon to four, and I was just notified that the museum wants to have the recognition ceremony that all elected officials, including everybody up here is invited to, they've moved that to 1130 to get it done before the day of activities start at noon. Their volunteers have to get out from the museum, get out and help with throwing axes and all kinds of fun things like that. So anyway, that's August 22nd, that's a Saturday. So those are the two announcements, thanks.

Okay, anything else?

Mr. Ortiz.

This Friday, July 24th is a movies in the park at 630 is what it says, but maybe some still out at 630 so might not start at 630. It's at Lords Park right behind the basketball courts and tennis courts by the zoo. They're playing Jurassic World with subtitles in Spanish. So if you're free this Friday and you like dinosaurs. uh come out and uh support our special events and then the cool one i'm excited about which i hope i can make is august 14th over in miss powell's neighborhood over in college green they're doing encanto and then they're playing it in spanish with english subtitles so uh those are two good uh movies coming up so if you guys have time on this friday or on august 14th come out and watch a movie with us

still waiting for purple rain.

Any other announcements from the council? Ms. Powell.

Yes, I do have a few announcements, primarily some shout-outs and some acknowledgments. This past weekend was pretty busy in our community. I'd first like to thank our public works staff for assisting with the honorary street dedication, renaming for... deacon Marlene Daubert at Zion Lutheran Church on Sunday. They were there on a Sunday, so just really appreciate Aaron Neal and his team for coming out on Sunday and helping to facilitate that. That was greatly appreciated. Wanted to send a shout out to Side Street Studio Arts and the Cultural Arts Commission for the Going Dutch event the mini Going Dutch Festival this past weekend that was held in the beautiful Habitat for Humanity property downtown. Had a lot of folks here from out of town performing. And Black Hawk Neighborhood Association had their annual summer picnic. Got a chance to talked to a lot of people there this past weekend. So thanks to them for holding that. Shout out to Pink Pearl. They held, it's an organization that collects free clothes, shoes, toiletries, and hygiene products for men and women experiencing homelessness in the community. That was on Riverside Drive on Sunday. And all the different service organizations that were there to assist folks in need. That was really appreciated. So hats off to Pink Pearl, to Cindy Simmons, and all of the folks that were involved with that, her team. Last but not least, today would have been Risa Jones's birthday. Risa Jones, for those of you who don't know, was the founder and executive director of Hamilton Wings here in Elgin that passed away. It'll be two years ago this coming December. So she is greatly missed in this community. Hamilton Wings had their annual event in June, their performance. It was great. Got a chance to go there and see the students perform. And Risa's spirit was definitely there in the room. So those are my announcements.

all right anything else announcements from staff none mayor thank you okay entertain a motion to adjourn so moved second moving second to adjourn court please call the roll council members alfaro yes dixon yes good yes martinez yes ortiz yes powell yes stefan yes thorne yes mayor captain yes we are adjourned we'll reconvene the regular council meeting at 7 p.m

you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Being for the Elgin City Council for July 22nd, 2026 to order, please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Meeting of July 8.

So moved.

Second. Moved and second for approval. Any corrections or additions? Hearing none, clerk please call the roll.

Council members Alfaro? Yes. Dixon?

Yes.

Good?

Yes.

Martinez? Yes. Ortiz? Yes. Powell? Yes. Stephan?

Yes. Thorne? Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. Motions approved 9-0. We have a number of communications this evening. The first one is a proclamation for Rick Regner, for Rotary District Governor. And I'm going to ask Ms. Martinez to read the second proclamation. It's for Puerto Rican Day. And Mr. Dixon will read the celebration for the 160th anniversary of Second Baptist Church.

Let me give you this first. Whoops, we don't need that.

Mr. Regner, we were just talking about that for over 20 years. And we first got involved in a program in Elgin called Activate Elgin. And it was a number of hospitals were represented. Rick was with the YMCA at that time. And we talked about making Elgin a better place and a better place for people to live, to be healthy. The two hardest things in the world, I think, teach people how to exercise a little bit more and how to eat healthier. So that was part of our goal. But we went to Washington D.C. and came back and had a very successful program here for a number of years. And I think it paid some dividends for our community and at that time we were trying to get the rec center going but it certainly helped. And Mr. Regner was the leader of that group and I've known him for many years. So it's really a pleasure for me to read this proclamation. whereas Rotary International is a global network of 1.2 million neighbors, leaders, and problem solvers who take action to create lasting changes across in our communities around the world, and whereas Rotary International District 6440, known as the home district, includes over 60 clubs across Northern Illinois dedicated to humanitarian service, peace, and community support. And whereas the City of Elgin has a proud legacy of Rotary service through the Rotary Club of Elgin, Noon Rotary, founded in May 1922, and the Elgin Breakfast Rotary, chartered in 1989, both have made lasting contributions to the community through service, leadership, and charitable initiatives. Whereas the Elgin Breakfast Rotary Club has supported numerous local organizations, including the Elgin Salvation Army and Food for Greater Elgin, while investing in future generations through leadership opportunities such as Rotary Youth Leadership Academy and scholarships supporting higher education and career training. and whereas the Elgin Breakfast Rotary Club fosters future generations of leadership and academic success by sponsoring local teens to attend the Rotary Youth Leadership Academy and by funding vital educational pathways through the G. Michael Green Scholarship, for students pursuing careers in education or math, alongside business 25 scholarship for vocational and career technical training at Elgin Community College or Judson University. And whereas Rick Regner, a distinguished and dedicated member of the Elgin Breakfast Rotary Club has stepped forward to accept the mantle of leadership as the Rotary International District 6440 governor for the years 2026 and 2027 Rotary Year, standing as the very first district governor chosen from the Elgin Breakfast Rotary Club. And whereas Governor Rick Regner installation marks a monumental milestone for the Elgin community, celebrating his vision, active leadership as the district action plan champion, and lifelong commitment to making service above self a lifestyle. Now, therefore, I, David Captain, Mayor of the City of Elgin, Illinois, do hereby proclaim the Rotary Year of 2026 to 2027 as a year of celebration and recognition for Rick Regner, Rotary District 6440 Governor and commend him, the Elgin Breakfast Rotary Club and the Rotary Club of Elgin for their enduring contributions to our community and beyond.

Rick, congratulations. Say a few words.

Well, first off, Mayor Captain, thank you for reminding me of our long tenure together. It's been a long journey. I'd like to thank you and I'd like to thank the City Council for this wonderful proclamation and recognition of my service as District Governor this year. Very humbled and honored to not only be the first district governor from our wonderful Elgin Breakfast Rotary Club, but only the third from Elgin in Rotary International's 121 year history. Please know that I will proudly serve the Elgin community as I lead our 62 clubs this year to create lasting change in our communities and across the globe. So thank you very much.

All right, make sure you smile.

All right, thank you very much.

Yes, if I could please ask the to please come up. The proclamation reads, whereas Christopher Columbus arrived in Puerto Rico on November 19th, 1493, where he encountered the Taino Indians, the indigenous people of the land, Puerto Rico was colonized by Juan Ponce de Leon and his crew from Spain in 1508. And whereas Puerto Rico became a possession of the United States of America as a result of the Spanish-American War in 1898. Puerto Rico became citizens of the United States of America in 1917. And whereas Puerto Rico has participated in the defense of the United States in World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghanistan. And whereas Puerto Rico became the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico in 1952, and whereas Elgin became the home of the first Puerto Ricans in the early 1950s, and is currently home to over 3,500 Puerto Ricans, And whereas Boricua Unidos de Algin continues the legacy of the Algin Puerto Rican Parade Committee since 1992, and whereas the residents of the island of Puerto Rico have contributed much of the rich history of the United States, The residents of Elgin of Puerto Rican descents have made many positive contributions to the city of Elgin, including the preservation and celebration of Puerto Rican heritage. Now, therefore, I, Rose Martinez, Councilwoman, on behalf of David Captain, Mayor of the city of Elgin, do hereby proclaim Saturday, August 1st, 2026 as Puerto Rican Day and encourage all residents to recognize and honor traditions, heritage, and spirit that continue to strengthen and enrich our city. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Martinez. Mayor, members of the City Council, thank you so much. It's an honor to have this. We certainly appreciate it. With me tonight are several of our board members, Julie Galloza, Madeline Villalobos, Edgar Santiago, and Jessica Feliciano. And we're all very proud and very excited to bring back a little bit of the Puerto Rican heritage here. It's been about 15 years since It's like dormant and so we were up here a few months ago kind of explaining and introducing ourselves and so we're fully head on starting with our festival on August 1st. We invite everyone on the dais to be out there if you can. Everyone in the audience please come out for our very first festival in 15 years. It'll be a festival park and it's only five bucks so I know you guys can afford it. But Rick, if you need a loan, I'll give it to you. Anyhow, we have been here since the 50s. In fact, it's funny because the Mexican community had 50 years head start on us. But by 1960, Mike Alf says that we actually had more Puerto Ricans in 1960 than we had Mexicans, which is really phenomenal. It's not true right now, obviously. But we have outnumbered the number of Puerto Ricans in Aurora, which, as you all know, is 50% bigger than Elgin so we're a growing community very proud community we love our people we love our culture we love our flag but most of all we love our community and that's why we're doing this this isn't we're not doing this just for Puerto Ricans I myself married a Mexicana Mexican and so we all have different taste and just love the Latino culture I was born and raised here myself and so you know my my Spanish has always been a bit of a challenge in fact I flunked it at Larkin High School but it's got a little better but not much better Nevertheless, I'm definitely proud of being Puerto Rican with both my parents being gone. It makes just that whole sense of history even stronger for me. And as you all know, I'm part of the Latino History Project with the Elgin History Museum, which will be premiered next month. So I'd invite everybody, if you have an interest on the Latino history in Elgin and a little bit of the surrounding area, Please come out today. We carry the torch pretty well in that documentary. I just saw the preview, and it looks pretty good. So please, ECC in August, and there's another premiere at the Gil Borden Library in September, so you'll get that taste as well. And Puerto Rican History is told there as well. But thank you so much for everything, for your time, and for your support. Your staff has been wonderful. Hats off to the city staff. They've been really helpful in helping us get our legs again after a 15-year hiatus. So thank you very much, and I hope to see you all there.

Can I please ask Second Baptist come up to the podium?

I have the privilege today of doing double duty. Not only as a council member do I get to recognize this wonderful spiritual institution, but also as a deacon at Second Baptist Church and a longtime member. My family came from Chicago in the 70s, and my family has been attending and been members of Second Baptist Church in one way or another for many years. So I have the privilege of reading this proclamation. On December 2nd, 1986, Second Baptist Church of Elgin was formally organized, becoming one of the oldest African American congregations in Fox Valley and a lasting symbol of faith, perseverance, and hope for generations of Elgin residents, and whereas the church's origins track back to 1862, where formerly enslaved men, women, and children arrived in Elgin seeking freedom, and through the leadership of founding members, including Arthur and Peter Newsome, the congregation became a spiritual home and cornerstone of the city's early African American, and whereas, throughout its 160-year history, Second Baptist Church has served not only as a place of worship, but also as a center of education, fellowship, civic engagement, civic social progress, helping establish one of Elgin's earlier schools for African American children, while advocating for equality, opportunity, and justice. And whereas, through the faithful leadership of its pastors and congregation, Second Baptist Church has continually expanded its ministries to serve individuals and families by supporting youth development, education, outreach, disaster relief, food assistance, healthcare initiatives, veterans, and partnerships that strengthen the greater Elgin community. And whereas for 16 decades, Second Baptist Church has demonstrated an unwavering commitment through service, compassion, and leadership, enriching the lives of countless residents while contributing to the cultural, spiritual, and civic fabric of the city of Elgin. And whereas as Second Baptist Church celebrates its 160th anniversary, 160 years, I believe we're the oldest African American church in Elgin. The city of Elgin proudly recognized its remarkable legacy of faith, resilience, and community service, and honors the generations of members who dedication has helped shape a strong and more inclusive city. And now therefore, I, Corey Dixon, on the behalf of Mayor David Captain, do hereby congratulate Second Baptist Church of Elgin and Pastor Patrick E. Parks on the celebration of the church's 160th anniversary and commend their enduring legacy of faith, serving, and leadership. The city of Elgin proudly honors their lasting contributions to all community and extends best wishes for many more years of ministry and service.

Thank you, Councilman Dixon, Mayor Kaplan, and other staff, councils. On behalf of Pastor Parks, the officers of Second Baptist Church, and the members of Second Baptist Church. We do thank you for this proclamation. We accept it with honor. We will be celebrating this Saturday and Sunday. You're welcome to attend. There's great food and great concert on Saturday. And Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon, we'll have our final celebration for 160 years. Thank you so much.

register the portion where we allow residents to speak on any issue that uh... if it was important to them we have one person signed up this evening tracy howell city council members i'm here to express uh... the

Um, that we're excited to learn, go forward with the inclusive and diversity ordinance, looking forward to the presentation that'll be coming up and moving forward with that. um also wanted to let you know that myself and others in the city are interested in the city spending per resident per demographic i think that would be a great addition to the presentation um that's that's what i have to say thank you thank you all right that brings us to bids first item is bid number 26-013 mcclure avenue 2026 resurfacing project

I move we award the bid for McClure Avenue 2026 resurfacing project to Brothers Asphalt Paving, INC, of Addison, Illinois, in the amount of $2,994,911. Second. Been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Ms. Powell. Yes, I know we have two.

bids on our agenda tonight regarding street resurfacing. And my question is regarding our, I believe we have a pavement rating system or pavement management system that rates how we determine which streets are paved first, because that's a question that comes up frequently from residents. Why did this street or these streets get picked? My street in my area is really bad. It doesn't seem to be on the schedule as quickly. Is that something that staff can just kind of give us a brief explanation on?

It's one of the factors that the engineering division uses, or the engineering department uses in making recommendations on street resurfacing. It's a dated study that we have, and I know Mr. Poovins is going to be coming forward with initiatives that plan to update that information. But for instance, in this particular bid, the McClure Avenue resurfacing, Walnut moved up to the top of the list. Well, here's a great example of how just the rules don't govern everything. Under our normal street resurfacing procedures, Walnut Avenue probably would not be resurfaced because there's an expectation that it's going to be torn apart in about five years for combined sewer separation. But we're smart enough to recognize that the condition of the pavement is something, as the mayor alluded to a little bit earlier, is something that the public shouldn't have to tolerate during that time period. So that's where the good thinking of Mr. Poobins and others on his staff know how to advance us to the agenda. So it's a combination of there's objective factors, but subjectivity also taking into consideration what we get back from the community.

Perfect. Thank you. And I'm sure people are definitely going to appreciate Walnut Avenue. It's a heavily traveled, busy street. So I just ask people that are complaining about the condition to also exercise patience while we go through the construction process. So thanks for that explanation.

Anything else? Clerk, please call the roll.

Yes. Dixon.

Yes.

Good.

Yes.

Martinez. Yes. Ortiz.

Yes.

Powell. Yes. Stephan.

Yes.

Thorne.

Yes. Yes. The motion's approved 9-0. The second item is bid number 26-022, Shales Parkway and East Side Streets, 2026 resurfacing project.

Mayor, I'll move that we award that to East Side Streets Resurfacing Project construction bid to Pellotti Construction in the amount of $1,555,178. Second. Second.

It's been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none, clerk, please call the roll.

Council Member Zafaro? Yes. Dixon?

Yes.

Good.

Yes.

Martinez. Yes. Ortiz.

Yes.

Powell. Yes. Steffen.

Yes.

Thorne.

Yes.

Mayor Captain.

Yes. Motions approved 9-0. Item 3 is bid number 26-025, Central Business District Streetlight Preservation and Painting Program.

Mr. Mayor, I recommend that we award this bid to Muskamp Painting and Decorating in the amount of $109,599. Second. It's been moved and seconded.

Any discussion? Hearing none, clerk, please call the roll.

Council Member Zafaro? Yes. Dixon?

Yes.

Good. Yes. Martinez? Yes. Ortiz? Yes. Powell? Yes. Stephan?

Yes.

Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. The motion's approved 9-0. Brings us to other business. The first item is consideration of petition 11-26 for 80 North State Street. conditional use to establish an amusement and recreational service not elsewhere classified. More specifically, a haunted house experience within an existing five-story commercial building. Mr. Mallott. Thank you, Mayor.

The subject property is located on the west side of State Street between Mountain and Washington Street. Here is State. This is Mountain, and this is Washington. This is Crystal Street, and this is Ludeca Place. Ludeca, Ludeca, tomato, tomato. We'll refer more to those streets later. Here's Walton Island. This is the Pace Transfer Station, and these are the two city-owned surface parking lots that border there on Highland Avenue. Evil Intentions requests approval of a conditional use to bring their immersive haunted house experience back to Elgin through the adaptive reuse of the five-story former hydroelectric building at 80 North State Street. Evil Intentions has been operating in Maple Park for the past two years. They were previously located in Elgin at 363 Bluff City Boulevard from 2009 until 2023. The applicant is proposing to operate the haunted house seasonally from the last week of September through the first week in November. The hours of operation will be Thursdays and Sundays from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. and Fridays and Saturdays from 7 p.m. to midnight. The applicant is not proposing significant exterior changes to the building. However, substantial interior building and life safety renovations will have to be completed for the haunted house experience that is proposed to run from the basement through the first second and third floors. The top floors would be used for storage. On the peak night, typically the Saturday before Halloween, Evil Intentions expects between 2,000 and 2,500 customers spread over five hours of operation. Expected amounts of customers on all other nights are significantly less. The zoning ordinance does not require on-site parking, and the state of Illinois now prohibits municipalities from requiring on-site parking for most uses within one-half mile, or about 2,600 feet, of train stations with public transportation. That's everything on this map, except maybe in the upper left-hand corner, a couple of the single-family homes up there. Evil Intentions is less than $1,000 free from the Chicago Street Metro Station. Notwithstanding, the applicant has continuously worked with staff to develop a parking management plan that takes advantage of existing parking, primarily in the downtown. The intent of the parking management plan is threefold, to get people to the attraction in a safe and orderly fashion, to minimize parking immediately around the attraction, and to put additional people in the downtown in hopes that they also frequent other downtown businesses. Evil intentions would run shuttles from a remote parking lot, bringing guests to and from the attraction. They estimate at least 75% of guests will use the shuttle system because when guests purchase their tickets online, they're guaranteed a window of time to go through the attraction, and the pre-purchase tickets require guests to park remotely. It was originally contemplated as recently as through the Planning and Zoning Commission that persons would park remotely at first the city lot south of City Hall, then if that was full, the city parking lot at the old library site at Kimball and Grove, and then if that was full, a lot owned by the Heider family at 860 North State where Habitat has their restore. However, with continued input on this application from the police department, special events, parks and recreation, and the city manager's office, we realized that we could not regularly ensure that these city lots would have capacity. Instead, Evil Intentions would park remotely at the Fulton Street deck, which actually provides a better all-around solution. the fulton deck has at least 300 parking spaces that are not in regular use it reduces the number of remote lots that evil intentions has to staff and monitor from three down to one and it puts guests closer to elgin's restaurant row The trip length from the Fulton Deck is less than a mile each way to and from Evil Intentions. These to and from routes are shown for illustrative purposes only. Staff would meet with Evil Intentions prior to the start of every season to determine what city parking facility or facilities may or may not be available to ensure that the various demands placed on those facilities are considered. Shuttered guests are dropped off right at the entrance gate on Washington Street and immediately enter the exterior waiting line north of the building. The image on the right side of the screen is simply an enlargement of the subject property also shown on the left. All guests are secured in the exterior waiting line behind a four foot high fence that runs along State Street, Washington, and Ludeca Place. It is expected that the lesser number of guests that do not pre-purchase tickets would drive to the attraction, use a rideshare like Uber or Lyft, or arrive by public transportation. 100 parking spaces are available within the city parking lots at Highland Avenue and State Street and at Highland and Crystal for persons who do not pre-purchase their tickets. At all times when Evil Intentions is operating, guests that would walk from these lots will be met and directed by at least one Evil Intentions staff member stationed within both parking lots. All right. Well, there were supposed to be little hands that popped up at both parking lots. At Mountain and State, at Mountain and Crystal, Mountain and Ludeca, and Washington and Ludeca. That would get people, let me use my arrow here, evil intentions, people would be here, here, here, here, here, and here. So getting people north up State, north up Crystal, on Mountain, to Ludeca, and into the entrance. At all times when Evil Intentions is operating, staff will have cones on the north side of and the south ends of Ludeca, restricting vehicular traffic to local traffic only. Essentially, those persons who live in the four residences along Ludeca, enabling persons to walk safely along this street. Walkers, again, would continue on Ludeca to Washington Street, turn right, and enter the entrance gate. These two lots will not be promoted by evil intentions, but rideshare services will be directed to drop off at Highland and Crystal. Evil intention staff will post signs at various locations along Crystal and to the west to say no event parking. Employees would not be allowed to park in the lots on the west side of the river. It was also considered that when Nightmare on Chicago Street is held in downtown, all city parking lots will be allocated for city use. While this night is generally the busiest for evil intentions, the applicant suggests that the persons coming to Nightmare are generally the same that will also be attending the haunted house. In other words, with this overlap, the applicant does not believe that the haunted house would generate significantly new customers or a consequential additional parking demand during nightmare. Notwithstanding, persons who do pre-purchase tickets for those two nights and only wish to attend the haunted house will be directed to park at Wing Park rather than the Fulton Street deck. The applicant would provide 10 temporary porta potties north of the building for customers waiting in line, which would be removed when the haunted house season is over. String lights will illuminate the area and outdoor playing and music would be permitted in conformance with the city's noise ordinance. No, goodness gracious, no fewer than six other Evil Intentions staff will always be outside providing exterior security, and four Evil Intentions staff will always be inside providing interior security. The security plan does not rely on off-duty Elgin police officers. Security cameras will be installed that can be accessed by Elgin police if so requested. The applicant is available should you have any questions. Staff in the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend approval. Subject conditions outlined within your packet.

Move for approval, subject to the conditions. Second.

It's been moved and seconded for approval, subject to conditions. Any questions or comments from Mr. Millard or the petitioner? Ms. O'Farrell.

Bear with me. I have a lot of questions. That's OK. OK. So you mentioned in your presentation that they're no longer using the two other lots. They're just utilizing the Fulton Market. So we're no longer using the Habitat for Humanity parking lot if needed?

That's correct. There should be plenty of parking within the Fulton Street deck that that should not have to come into play. The only instance where it might would be maybe the nights on Nightmare on Chicago Street when they move their first parking lot to Wing Street and then perhaps on State. But considering the projected vehicles per hour and the availability and the turnover, it shouldn't be necessary. But it's a nice parking lot to have in their back pocket.

OK. I believe EI's or Evil Intentions staff will be at the Fulton parking lot deck, right?

Yes. Mm-hmm.

Did we figure out bathroom situation for those workers? Because I don't believe there's a bathroom at that deck.

There is not, no.

So that would be something I would like to see for, to make sure that the workers have access to a bathroom, given that they'll be there for a certain amount of hours. I know, uh, some are just three, but others are a little longer. So if we can make sure that those workers that will be there would have that. Um, I do have a question for city staff on, um, I know, um, It's similar to the Ravinia that they said in the application that they will put signage that like no event parking around here. However, a lot of people don't listen to that and they still park on streets. And so how quickly could we do a parking permit for those residents if those residents end up complaining that too many people are parking on their street during that time?

Well, as I understand the process, it would be first referred to the Transportation and Parking Committee, but if that was something that had to happen more quickly than not, I think we could do that. But one of the benefits, though, too, is that every other week we'll be meeting with evil intentions operators to see if that is in fact happening. Based on anecdotal evidence from people who live in that area, there's not a whole lot of street parking that's available for persons to park in there.

Yeah, that's why I was a little concerned when I drove by. I was like, hmm. I think you had your hand up. Did you want to say something? Go ahead.

Thank you. My name is Burke Arslan. I've been his broker and support and developer and getting this project to the city. The few things are, as we wrote, there is the concern and threat that they could be ticketed just like you would be in Ravinia. For example, when I visit that event, I'm always worried that should I go down that street, I would probably get a ticket in towed. Also, the process, hopefully through TicketSpice, as we've demonstrated in the document, should make it easier than trying to find something on the street and then walk over when they can have not just a shuttle or a bus, but one that has the experience starting in advance with actors on the bus while they ride. So the intent is for that to start at the garage when they're picked up and then dropped off and hopefully, as Mike has previously done, been in relationship with downtown businesses so that there could be discounts, coupons, reasons for them to go back to the downtown area and then engage the other businesses while they're in the city for more than just a 30-minute haunt.

No, and I appreciate that because that's just being really good neighbors, right, and trying to, like, boost economic economy here. So I do greatly appreciate that. I think the other was... I appreciate that you were willing to give EPD access if needed, if there was an investigation. That was really nice. So thank you for that. There was a letter in the packet that was an outreach to local neighbors. I was just curious, was there any response from the local neighbors? No. Okay. No, ma'am. Okay. That's no longer needed because the parking has changed. Okay. Um, there is one time that says that at one point they might start a little earlier. Would that be like a 6 p.m. start time? If it was like a really busy day or like maybe a half hour earlier, maybe a six 30.

Yeah. Not too much earlier.

That's fine. Okay. Um, I think that's all of it. Cause the parking has been, uh, Oh, can you explain a little bit about, um, the lights in the line. I'm just curious if like that would be too much lights for the neighbors, but it doesn't seem like it given that the neighbors are in a different direction, but I was just curious. Yeah.

They'll just be your, your basic generic string lights that go across. They won't be too bright. Right. Right.

Okay. No, that's fine. Okay. Perfect. Thank you.

Ms. Paul.

Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Captain. Thank you, Mr. Milat. Thank you, Mike. And I forgot what your name is. Brock. Brock. Thank you. I am really excited about this project, maybe just a little bit too excited. I was just speaking to Mike earlier. I happen to be driving. This has been probably about a month ago or probably a couple months ago. I've never been inside. the Hyder Building. I've heard that it's a really interesting layout. And I was driving down the street and happened to see people coming in and out of the building. And I said, I'm just going to stop. I'm going to stop and see if somebody's going to let me in the building to see what it looks like. And that's how I met Mike. And it just all worked out. And we've been in touch and just kind of working with him and working with Mark. Thank you for all of your help. Thank you for all of your help and patience in getting us to this point. For anyone who hasn't seen this building, you have to go inside. It does not look anything like you would expect for it to look looking at it from the outside. And I think it's a really neat adaptive reuse of this property that has been vacant and underutilized for far too long in our community. So I'm definitely in favor of the project. I do have a couple of questions. Looking at the memo, and I'm not sure if this is a typo, Hours of operation, it says, would be Thursday and Sunday from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m., and it says Fridays and Saturdays from 7 a.m. to midnight. It's supposed to be p.m. Okay. All right. Didn't know if you guys were just getting a head start. And coming in early. That's too early? Okay. So that answers that question. I know that there were, there's a long list of, I think, some things that are still in play in terms of some of the fire and access and site improvements. My only concern is, and I know your intention is to try to get everything going for this Halloween season, based on where we are in the process, I mean, do we think that is, you know, that that's feasible at this point?

We've staff has made the commitment that we will do everything we can on our part in terms of expediting plan review, meeting with the applicant, meeting with their, we've just brought on a new architect meeting with that person. So we're going to do everything we can.

Okay. All right. I mean, it would be great if it happens. I would like to see that. I appreciate the way this is coming forward because this is not just during Halloween. There's an escape room aspect of this proposal during the off Halloween seasons that I think will be very popular. And ultimately, I know from talking to you, and I think it was also mentioned in the... the packet, some plans potentially to have a rooftop restaurant, bar, something there. That would be great. lot of changes on the parking and the shuttling. That was a lot, but I appreciate all of the thought put into that because it's, it's necessary for us to do that now than to wait until we have 2000 people downtown and no plans for where they can park and where they should park in no direction. So I really appreciate the thought that that was put into that.

absolutely a team effort, all departments providing information and trying to come to this project with creative solutions.

Yes, definitely. I think those were my primary questions and feedback. Excited to have you back in the community and just hoping and crossing my fingers that everything goes well, that you can actually open this in the fall.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Good. Thank you, Mayor.

Just a quick question.

You had mentioned I really like the idea of you making the shuttle an extension of the experience. So does that shuttle, it brings them there, does it also bring them back to where they were parked at?

Correct, correct. Sorry, go ahead.

We have a dedicated pickup spot kind of towards the exit of the building, and it'll take them right back. So it'll drop off, come back around the building, stop for pickup, go back to the parking garage, and keep rerouting like that the whole night.

Okay. And so I think you had shown that the entrances on the north side, they exit that same...

portion of the building or I guess my only concern is that portion that's against State Street there's not gonna be people coming out that door great question councilmember the the colored diagram that mr. my lot showed had them dropped off on the north side of the building and it swings around empty and picks up the patrons exiting from the south side and then brings them around so they don't intermingle or create a traffic jam there that rotating shuffle shuttle i've written it down can be used for their bathroom breaks because they can't stand around for five hours uh ticketing and and policing and there is a rotation plan that he's shown so they can come back on that or be relieved on that so we'll we'll write into the plan accordingly very cool it's been good the the image of this is the south side of the building and so they'll be

We'll exit onto here and then be picked up and take off. The way on the other side on the far right is the north side zone.

Beautiful. Great. Yeah, I love that. The shuttle just attracts them there and back. So I like that. That is the only question I have.

Mr. Stephan.

Yeah, I also want to say I'm kind of excited about this. and wanted to echo some of the sentiments that have been expressed. I appreciate all the work. It's clear in the memo, it's clear in the description. All the departments, all your work, everybody's trying to make this thing happen. My only statement is I think we have to remain flexible. And I, was going to ask, but I'm glad you said that there's going to be biweekly meetings to see how this is going because I think we're not going to know until it happens and then we're just going to have to find out where the pinch points are and what we're going to have to change. So that's good to hear that everybody's on the same page. Everybody's trying to do that. Everybody's trying to make this work. The other thing I wanted to mention is I would recommend you look up a haunted house in Sheboygan, Wisconsin that I've been hitting in October for about 20 years. It's called Dominion of Terror. Just remember that. Look it up. It's in an old warehouse, much like this. Same problems with parking, same problems with staging people outside. And I looked them up. They've been around for 50 years, so they obviously know what they're doing and have been successful. It's one that we've attended for, many Columbus Day weekends when we're up in Wisconsin. And because it's a similar, I think they're facing a lot of the similar kind of restrictions and just problems in an urban setting in an old building. I think that would be a good resource. And I just recommend that because I would echo other sentiments that I really think this is a great idea and it should be successful and hopefully it will be and everybody is working to make it happen. So thank you.

Okay, anything else? Mr. Ortiz.

I have a couple of questions. In the packet, I couldn't find a traffic study. And the reason I'm asking is because one of the, from EPD, one of their comments was traffic concerns. And then reading more of the proposal, is that you guys want to close down took a note here laduka street and then the i said staffs i'm assuming evil intention staff's gonna lay out cones on crystal to make it a two-way street because it's currently one way so was there a traffic study done with the train track being at grade level there on both mountain and washington and then closing down that residential street and making the other residential street that used to be one that's currently one way make it two-way

so not a not a formal traffic study but we met with the parking and traffic committee that i had mentioned earlier and talked about how crystal street would work currently because you know it splits with the one ways because of the visibility at those viaducts and so if you are let me get back to a map here councilman if i could see if i get something that's a little more there we go so currently at crystal and mountain here you're allowed to make a left as far as this as this house right here and then you can't go any further so what would happen was would be on those nights they would be a Evil-intentioned staff member would be allowed to direct persons down to here but because they would be located in this lot would prevent them from leaving and making a right and then direct them back up to the north so that would that was how that would work and then as it relates to ludeca because there's only four residences on there and it would be coned again there's evil intention staff members at both ends if someone drives up and says oh i live right there pick up the cones let them come in and but then for the vast majority of ludeca it would there would be no vehicular traffic and it would be safe for anybody who was walking from here or from here to get them to the north side of the entrance

Okay. All right. That's okay. And then, so what about, and also in the packet, it said for ice shares, it didn't go to lot one and lot one was Highland and 31. And the peak you said was 2,000 to 2,500 people. and say maybe a quarter or maybe less than a quarter of them do use Uber or Lyft or some other kind of taxi services. Was there any concerns from EPD about that vehicle traffic coming in and out of that corner parking lot?

Not that they expressed directly, no.

Did you guys consider a traffic study for that since it's a busy intersection of people coming in and out of that? Did not. May I ask why or you just didn't think it was that...

Well, considering on those busiest nights, that's, that's projected to be nightmare. Uh, and it's the, it's the applicant's experience that those customers are probably going to be in downtown and walking. Um, and so that it wasn't.

Okay. That's a good thing. That nightmare would probably be there that day. Um, so crystal, the Duke, uh, the corner lot one. All right. I think that's all I have right now for this part. I got some questions for the ordinance part, but for this part, that's all I got. Thank you. Okay.

Anything else? Okay. We have a motion. Please call the roll.

Council members Alfaro? Yes. Dixon?

Yes.

Good.

Yes.

Martinez? Yes. Ortiz?

Yes.

Powell? Yes. Stephan?

Yes.

Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. Motions approve 9-0. Congratulations. All right, brings us, item two is an ordinance granting a conditional use to establish an amusement and recreation service not elsewhere classified in the CC2 Central City District and Arc Arterial Road Corridor Overlay District at 80 North State Street.

Move for approval. Second.

And move to second for approval. Any discussion?

Mr Ortiz. Sorry man, give me a second point it up. There we go. Alright. Alright, so for maybe I could talk about the last item, but I think it's more relevant here because it's written in here in the ordinance. So for. And the last item you said that there's currently 300 parking spots in Fulton Street, which is underutilized. And I agree that we do have, I think, two or three floors that are currently blacked off when nobody uses. So we do have the vacancy of the spaces there.

Yes, sir.

My only concern with that is that we've got Three big buildings downtown Elgin that are currently either under redevelopment or just vacant and looking for tenants. One of them is the old Burns building. One of them is the boot shop that Mr. Entrevier is remodeling with no roof. And then the other one that was currently posted on the Daily Herald on July 13th was 31 South Grove. My concern is that if those three buildings come live and say in the next two to three years, then maybe those 300 spaces won't be available anymore because then the residents, not the residents, well, I guess some of them are residents because the entry was put in lofts in the second floor of the boot shop. Those businesses are going to need those spaces. Then I know in your ordinance you have written This arrangement shall not be construed by the haunted house and as an ongoing reservation right or any other such guarantee by the city to which to as always or forever set aside parking spaces within the city facility. I think you said it was going to be a year-to-year for every season. You were going to meet with the petitioner to see what needs the city has, put the city's needs over the businesses' needs, correct?

Well, and or try and balance those. Okay. Yes, but that would be the intent for that annual meeting to review downtown parking facilities. Yes, sir.

Okay. So for this one, I would like to amend that paragraph seven, section three. So And the reason I want to is just for the facts that I laid out is we got 31 South Grove that's been published in Daily Hero. The city's thinking about selling the property. 61 to 65 South Grove, where we gave $1.2 million to Mr. Entreveria to redevelop that property. And he's planning on putting a kitchen and residence there. And then maybe even the second lot one day, we'll put more condos over there to finish that expansion of those apartments that are there. And I've never been a business owner, but I know most business owners tell me that run restaurants and other things. It takes about three years to become established. So if you could survive your first three years of business, then you're established. I guess I'm using the word business too much, but established business. And you have your clientele, you have your loyal customers, and you stay operational. So you're not really thinking about building your business anymore. Now you think about just operating. So it gives you more time to think about other things to expand your business and your adventure. So I like to amend that to give a 36 month sunset to the use of Fulton Street Deck. So that gives them three years to get their business off the ground, get their clients, iron out any details that have to do with permitting, to fix some of the port-a-potty stuff. We're putting port-a-potties outside, so I'm assuming they've got to renovate bathrooms inside the building. So then in the future, maybe put those bathrooms inside the building and any other interior work that may need to be done. That's this one thing I want to do is put that sunset clause in there for the use of Fulton Street Deck and then have something in the language of like, I have something written out here, but Mr. Beck can wordsmith it better than I can probably. 36 months sunset the right to use public parking and they need to find a private lot for their shelter services and I guess one of the places that it could be is right north is that Parking a lot that's for sale. What's under pending contract according to Google this morning. So maybe the new owner will go into an agreement with you guys to run out the lot right across the street from your place or La Morita parking lot that you mentioned earlier in your presentation that there's spaces there that could shuttle up and down North State Street. So I'd like to amend it, but give Mr. Beck until the next meeting to figure out how to work that if my motion to amend passes. So I guess I'll just make the motion and a motion to amend paragraph seven, section three, to add 36 months sunset to use public parking, and they need to find a private lot for their shuttle services. And then Mr. Beck can have until the next two, I guess three weeks now, because it's going to be a little bit of a gap between our next meeting to come back with a revised ordinance with that in there and then struck in the year to year thing. was given three straight years to get their business set up and running, and then they could figure out how they're going to do that. Because my biggest concern is just these developments coming up and we're going to need that parking. And I do agree that right now that parking is available and they should be able to use it. So that's my motion, if somebody wants to second it.

Second.

Thank you.

It's been moved and seconded to amend paragraph seven, section three, paragraph seven, to provide a sunset provision of three years for the Fulton Street parking deck. Is that correct, Mr. Ortiz?

Yes, Mayor.

Okay.

Any discussion? Hands up.

Yes, thank you, Mayor. And while I I guess I'm trying to understand Councilman Ortiz's concern. I will not be supporting the motion. We have to find creative ways. This is a very difficult property that has been vacant for a long time for a reason. And we've come up with solutions for parking. We have three parking decks downtown plus surface lots that have been identified throughout this process. Yes, I know we've got other developments that are coming on that will be adding to downtown and parking and bringing people downtown. There are other parking decks and surface lots where people can park. and all of this will likely not be going on at the same time with the exception of Nightmare on Chicago Street, which we've already talked about. I think the issue in terms of the parking and whether or not this is working has already been built into this by the annual meeting that staff will be having with the property owner every year prior to the start of their busy season. So I think this is redundant. I don't think we need to do this. that's what that meeting is set up for. And I think that will address any concerns that we have. If some of these other developments that you're mentioning are starting to open, we're starting to see more traffic flow downtown that is miraculously filling up the Fulton Street parking deck at the same time, that will obviously be addressed and can be addressed in the meeting that staff will be having with the proprietors every year. So I don't feel a need to put a sunset on the use of the Fulton Street deck. Again, this property has sat vacant for a long time and parking is probably one of the reasons why it's been very difficult to well one of the many reasons i'll say why it's been difficult to redevelop so rather than us put more barriers in place for business owners to come in and do work in our community we need to be flexible and i don't see this motion being flexible to conduct business in elgin and unnecessary thank you okay mr good

Thank you, Mayor. So I think for the benefit of the public, for myself included, I don't know if I've been on this dais and implemented a sunset before. So I think in logic, it's like setting a milestone that is revisited, or do we put constraints on a sunset that automatically trigger because I think at least the logic I'm hearing right now is you know it's an assessment in three years from now if the downtown has flourished and there's competing interest for that parking deck leave that open or is this motion saying that in three years there's like a hard decision being made for that council that's going to be here in three years and staff

Since I'm being looked at to respond to that. So Councilman Ortiz is the where it's sunset and that's somewhat applicable. Normally you think of that as peaceful legislation is adopted and there's some date certain in the future where it's no longer in effect, that it sunsets. All of these numbered provisions, section three, are conditions of the conditional use that would be approved. So number seven is a condition that relates to the parking. The way I understood the motion is that it would be amended so that the section would read The expectations after three years in order to continue the use they will have to use private parking spaces They will no longer their operations will no longer have Spaces available. So that's what I understand the motion if it was approved. I would amend this language to write something to that effect

No, no, no. That's not what I want. Maybe I worded it wrong. I don't want them to go out of business. I want them to be proactive in looking for private parking lots for their shuttle services. And then that's what I want.

So after three years, they'd be expected to have identified private parking spaces to conduct their operations?

Yes. Look into it. Okay.

But they could still use... I guess I'm confused on that.

Okay. Let me strike what I said and rephrase it. So... Can I talk, Mayor? I think Mr. Good was talking.

I mean, yeah, I guess I could just wrap up mine real quick. Just for me, I agree with, I think, the direction that it might be intended for. Because for me, when I see, like, forever, that... that's a pretty hard lock and we've had other instances where we've worked with organizations that have uh helped kind of bring a facility back to life but again like we've said there's always been compromise in there so that's where i'm trying to just find what the motion entails what this forever entails and then a sunset so thank you corporate council for explaining that

Okay, Mr. Ortiz.

Okay, let me strike what I said. We won't have a court reporter, but I'll stay in anyways. So what I'm trying to articulate is that by year three, after the business is established, for them... before the year three is for them to be looking for other avenues for their shelter services of where they're gonna park their patrons. And hopefully they can find something off of public parking because we're gonna have these new developments coming in. So it's not a hard, if they look and there's nothing available that we're gonna say, we're pulling your permit or we're pulling your conditional use. want to be proactive in looking for private off public parking lot.

Mr. Beck.

Yeah, I mean, that clarifies that I can obviously watch the you know, the recording of this and try to get that. But I mean, that would refine what I'm looking for. I don't know if, I would come back with something that tries to capture that idea and that could be considered at that next meeting. But I have better understanding it's not looking for a hard deadline, a hard condition, something that's more flexible and would be in the discretion of probably the community development director to determine whether they're meeting that standard or not.

Correct. That's why I want to give you time in the wordsmith because you're going to do a lot better job than I just did. Ms. O'Farrill.

I have concerns with the amendment.

And the reason why I have concerns is because

Why are we already penalizing a business that's trying already to draw business and draw tourism? When you bring people in driving an hour away, two hours away, they most likely are going to get hungry. They're going to get thirsty, et cetera. They're going to visit other businesses. So to penalize and be like, you can't use it, Council Member Powell had mentioned, it's a yearly evaluation where community development will have conversations with the business to understand what is going on. After year one, we will see if sales tax is going up around that time, right? If other businesses are being utilized, et cetera. So to put a sunset or a time length of like, you have to go use private property for parking, which, then could potentially impact other businesses because of the draw of tourism, where they're doing a really good job of trying to promote the other businesses around, I think is a barrier to bringing more economic development growth here. And I think we should wait until after the first year to see how things are going and moving to see if we should put a timeline on there. I don't think we should start off with barriers.

Mr. Dixon. Thank you.

Appreciate the presentation.

Thank you, Mark. Evil intentions. Thank you for bearing with us as we have these conversations. And thank you for all of your work and efforts too as well. And everything from community development. Okay. So I'm trying to understand the reasoning of the motion. what I'm hearing is that you're thinking about the future development of the downtown and saying we want to reserve the option of those future developments to have first access to those parking spaces. Is that accurate?

Yes. So I'm going to answer a little bit of yours and Mr. Alfaro's at the same time. Sure. Because I didn't want to cut in between what the mayor called somebody else. So I've never said they couldn't park there, Mr. Alfaro. I said that they can, I agree with Mr. Millat that right now they're underutilized. So it gives them three years to get their business up and going, get the economic development that you mentioned and get the businesses in that you mentioned, or the business, uh, that come into the businesses. And then after they get established, then they have to start looking for off public parking because how Mr. Dixon's asking me now is I'm looking towards the future of maybe 31 South Grove, 61 or 65 South Grove, and then the Burns building getting redeveloped. And from speaking to the business owners down there or the business owner down there, is he's planning on bringing in another restaurant for Old Verns and taking out the event space. And then Fulton Street is closer to his establishments and then closer to 31. So I'm trying to, in the future, prioritize those parking spaces for those new downtown developments.

Yeah, but they could go to that Verns. Oh, sorry, Mayor. Is that OK? Oh, thank you. Sorry. They can still go to that Old Verns or other locations, right? If they move their private parking like they had Habitat for Humanity, right, that's down on 31. If they utilize that, a lot of people would turn around and go the other way, right? That is going towards Dundee, which a lot of our money already goes to Dundee. You keep some downtown and floor 10 parking deck, they're staying on Grove. All that is eligible tax, like sales tax. That's all coming to us. Right. Versus them having to go 20, 30 minutes away. So that's why I'm like, let's not put a barrier now. Let's see how year one goes. Let's get the data check. It's only for six to seven weeks. That's not the entire year either. Right. So let's figure out, look at the data for the first year and then figure out if we need to put some restrictions or not. i think to jump ahead and put a barrier being like you know what in three years have to figure it out because they could they find private property a mile down two miles they get closer to dundee everyone's going to those bars in dundee we already have too much of our millions of dollars of elgin individuals money goes away to our surrounding areas we need to keep that money here but i don't understand how it's a barrier when we're giving them

the opportunity to do it now, a barrier would be saying you can't do it starting day one. That's a barrier in my definition, the way I interpret the word. Your interpreter of the word, there'll be a barrier in the future, correct?

I'm saying that you're putting restrictions and barriers now when I don't think there needs to. There's no data to back that yet. We don't know the developments yet. We have been talking about developments take time. You go into an old building and, oh, my God, there's all sorts of things. And you think you're going to be up in one year. You're up in two years instead, right? All sorts of things. So I'm saying, like, we should wait a year. to see the data, to see the impact of sales tax, to see and talk to the businesses. Are you being impacted? Are people going to the haunted house? Are they going to the bars? Are they going to the restaurants? Are they staying here? Are they leaving? And then after year one, then reevaluate and be like, okay, maybe we should look at a different parking deck. Maybe we look somewhere else. Or maybe, yes, in two years, you should look at private park to park. I think we're jumping the gun here.

I think we're Using definition of barrier in different ways. And I don't think we're going to get to an agreement.

Barriers is where we get a lot of complaints from business owners who say, oh, it's hard to work with. And we're putting restrictions already from the front. Right? They could be breaking in tons of thousands of dollars of money because of all the tourism coming in from all different areas. places who then stay downtown Elgin who then maybe will help nightmare. Oh, I could do two for one. I could go to nightmare now and I could also go to a haunted house and I could, you know, go, um, hit two stones in one. I think, We as a community need to try to make it easier for business, yet being compliant with all our regulations and stuff like that. I think we're jumping the gun here. And I think we should wait for the data to see, because for all we know, they could be bringing in so many people who then are all staying down here and casinos nearby, right? People are like, hey, we could go drink. It's midnight. You know what's still open? The casino. Let's go play at the casino. Let's have some drinks at the casino. Our riverboat fund goes up. We need more money here. And if we, for right now, I think that deck is perfect, right? Cause that's right in the middle of downtown. There's a lot of businesses right there. There's an opportunity to eat in different locations. I think we should wait for the data to come through and after year one and then reevaluate.

We'll have three years of data by the time it comes back. I'm sorry, Mr. Dixon. Go ahead.

Let me step in here for a minute.

I still have the floor, actually.

I asked a question and it kind of sparked it. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. Let's just step back from this for a minute. Number one, I'm going to trust the recommendation of city staff and the use of the Fulton Street parking deck. you and I have had multiple conversations about this project, and I've had multiple conversations with evil intentions about this project. I think I'm the only person up here that served on planning and zoning prior to council, maybe. I was six years.

You were six years, I'm sorry.

Second person, second person, I'm sorry. My point is that I've never in all my time on city council or planning zoning in city council, went against the parking recommendation and even traffic recommendations from community development. Even if I had questions about it, because it always worked out. And I think that's the case here too. I think that the idea of having it at the Fulton Street parking deck and having patrons go to and from and being in our downtown, I want that. The peak hours of operations are going to be mostly after business hours and the weekends. And that's during a time downtown where there's a lot of time, no one down there. So I don't think that parking will actually be a problem. I think I understand the rationale, but logically, I think it's not going to be an issue. So I'm going to support it as is the sunset of it all. I don't think that's a good idea. Us preemptively saying we're going to possibly limit this new business or this business coming back into our community because we expect X, Y, and Z to happen that we don't really have any sound numbers on and actually has not actually occurred yet. These are more ideas than things that have been executed. And fingers crossed, I hope that that all works out. but there's a possibility that it doesn't. And even if it does, I think we're still going to be okay. If we have a parking issue on our Friday nights, you know, on the evenings, especially the weekends. I mean, that's a good issue for our downtown. I want people to be in our downtown all times of the day. So, um, I won't be supporting the motion. And again, I, I, the reasoning, logically, I understand what you're trying to accomplish and why. I just think that it's just logically not sound given the predicament that we're in with our downtown, so.

Anything else? Ms. Martinez.

Thank you, Mayor. The reason why I was considering this motion is, you know, I kind of wish we had a crystal ball, right? But we don't. And one incident that comes to mind in downtown Nalgene is the Burritt building where we had gone ahead and Gave them some parking spots and here it is years later and we're hurting from that. I don't know who I can ask whether it would be corporate council or the city manager or the mayor who can kind of refresh us on what happened there. But I know that situation is always coming up because it was an agreement that was made then. And obviously the downtown has changed a lot since then, but I know we're being haunted by that. I didn't mean to say that. And so that's kind of like I'm a little hesitant. You know, it's true. We don't know what's going to happen. We're hoping that things go well. I understand that you're just seasonal. I get that. But I just want to be cautious of it. So I don't know if anybody can jump in on that.

I'll go ahead, Mr. Stafford, and I'll say something.

I'll jump in because I was running or helping run the DNA when that happened. We did that twice, or actually the city did that twice. They did that with the Burt Building, and I want to clarify that that's a permanent... allocation of parking spots that's we can never take away that's a whole different ball of wax and what's being proposed here but and the other one we did was our donnelly in the spring street deck but they went out of business so those parking spaces came back to us so um i i'm reluctant to try to explain that away because it really doesn't apply to this situation this is not we're not proposing to give the haunted house permanent parking spaces indefinitely that nobody else can use. We're offering them the use of some public spaces and maybe I missed it in the memo, but I heard, I think our, Community Development Director Mark Mollat say that the restore parking lot's owned by the Heider family, which owns this building, so the landlord actually has an option. And I see you guys picked up on that immediately. So if it comes to pass that we have a parking problem downtown and we need to have you guys relocate your parking, I think there is a really easily available option because your landlord has a parking lot right up 31. And I agree with our, comments from Councilwoman Alfaro that sending your customers halfway to Dundee so when they're done with your haunted house, they could as likely turn north and go there for whatever they're gonna do next rather than come back downtown. But I also can't support the proposal because I'm looking at the paragraph seven and I'm looking at the last sentence, which I think is what is, needed in this situation so i appreciate i assume that our staff kind of made sure that was in there says this arrangement shall not be construed by the haunted house as an ongoing reservation right or any other such guarantee by the city to always or forever set aside parking spaces within any city facility so I am comfortable with that. That is telling you guys, and you've heard all this discussion, so you certainly are on notice that we're trying to help you and I want to help you. I want to make sure this thing happens. I actually was pleasantly surprised to hear the parking program that was laid out in the memo has been changed to something that to me is better, bring them down to Fulton Street Market, or Parking Deck, sorry. One location and as people have commented, right downtown where maybe they will stick around and do some other spending and consuming and those kinds of things. So I'm comfortable with that last sentence in paragraph seven, I think. To our staff's credit, I think they've kind of laid the law down that this is not a guarantee. You guys long-term are gonna have to kind of work on some things and I think you've got it. So those are my comments.

I think in the past we've used the sunset provision and it doesn't necessarily mean a hard and a fast rule. It means that you may have to come back and revisit something and say after three years if there's a sunset provision we have an agreement here and you always talk about ordinance being a law and now if you're staying this is an ordinance and this has created a uh something that we can't get out of that's not necessarily true a sunset provision says that in three years the city and the applicant will come back and revisit this and see how it's working for everybody and i think that we've talked about businesses coming in i could tell you nothing that'll kill businesses faster is when people come down to go to dinner on saturday night and can't find a piece a place to park That's another issue. And we've had that issue in this town for many, many years, going back probably 40 years. We give away property and parking spaces, as Mr. Stephan alluded to, because we needed to bring businesses in. They needed the parking spaces dedicated to them. So we gave away public parking to do that. And that gets to be a dangerous thing because sometimes you can't get it back. uh... i'm not saying this is permanent because that's not the way it's written but i think it's worth to look at and say let's come back in three years and force the council and force the applicant to come back and look at this and how's this working out for us is this going to be the same can we look at this are we have do we have businesses now that uh... or within a half a block of uh... of uh... fulton street parking deck and have to walk three blocks because they can't get there Is that an issue? I think that's a perfectly appropriate way to look at a sunset provision and say, let's just come back and take another look at this. How does it work for both sides? And do we need to have to re-look at this? It doesn't take it away from you because you can come back and say it's working out pretty well. We're all in good shape. I'm happy with that. But it does tell you that you need to have to come back and maybe take a look at this. It is a spot. There have been issues at the Fulton Street deck since it was built of various kinds, car shows, things like that, taking spaces on Sundays. People are upset. One issue that comes up very frequently is the use of the parking deck and the fact that there is no bathroom there, to miss Alfaro's point. uh there has to be a facility there and i think that may be something i'm not sure i like the idea of having uh people uh being shelled back and forth every three or four hours to be able to go to the bathroom someplace so there may be some issues there we have to look at as well because there's an ongoing problem so a sunset provision allows us to do that And that's just the way we've looked at it in the past. It doesn't have to be a permanent thing. You can go back and do it exactly the same way, but it causes you to go take a review. Mr. Thorne, you haven't had a chance yet.

Thank you, Mayor. You know, this is a perfect example of how all of us hear things different and see things different and have different opinions and feelings towards this. I listened to everyone and I agreed with what Councilwoman Powell said, Councilwoman Alfaro said. Now the Mayor's final statement seems to make the most sense. There's one thing that I wanted to add and that is with the Fulton Street parking deck there there's a separate stairwell that goes to the parking lot of the Turner's Lodge. And I would be willing to bet that they would welcome an opportunity to work with everybody, with you guys, with this particular parking thing for A, a bathroom, and B, the opportunity for them, which has always been on the cusp of, right on the edge of nightmare, where they were blocked out, but to now possibly be included. And this could be part of that. What I understand with the three-year visitation, it's not shutting you out of the public option. the fact that you're gonna do a study and talk about it annually, I didn't see where that was like a requirement report from you or something like that. I mean, to me, I can see all these sides. Everybody has a value here in making some sense of their opinion and this situation. And your description and wording could convince anybody that yours is the best idea. I hear value in everyone's opinion. And to me, if it's not putting a barrier on it, making you, at the very beginning when he first said it, I thought in three years you can't use it. That's what it first sounded like, but that's not the case. That's not the case at all, and obviously that's not what he wanted. But I can be the connection to the Turners for anybody, because I've been a member there for 30 years, and I know that they would welcome some type of inclusion opportunity. This could be it. I just thought I'd throw that part in. I do like and understand now what the mayor meant by the sunset clause. It's not saying no, it's the requirement of a revisit. That's all. Mr. Good.

Thank you, Mayor. To Council Member Thorne's point, I hear everybody's opinions up here. Personally, this is what I've always wanted to see happen with downtown Elgin because Nightmare was so popular. The city staff has expanded it to two days. We've now got a business that's potentially contributing to that. We've got other smaller businesses in downtown that I think contribute to the overall experience. and kind of that vibe that Elgin's cultivated. With some caveats that, you know, I live next door to the spring deck. And so I had that experience of, you know, a company having dedicated parking spaces until they went out of business. And then the Fulton deck, I think it is perfect for this, for all the reasons that you articulated earlier, Councilwoman Alfaro. It's beautiful. It's really a nice deck. It's underutilized. But the weird part is that it was kind of so underutilized that it was straight up like fast in the I'm very curious. All the time, too. So I lived down the street on Chicago, and it was loud enough that I could hear it. And so all the residents that lived by there started calling, and I believe that's part of the reason that contributed to it being shut down. And so we know behavior. People start to realize that. So I just say that it's just a small degree of maybe it's just not apples to apples with comparing other parking facilities because it has been shut down for a while. Nonetheless, the fact remains it is underutilized. So The other thing that I think really impacts businesses is not having certainties. And so I want everybody here tonight to be clear with what we're doing, even if it takes more time. But I also want you having the assurances that we value you bringing people into the downtown, because truly that's a valuable thing. So I guess that's where... I yield to other people that had a keener eye to catch this, because admittedly I did not bring this question to staff, and also for the attorneys in the room. And so I do want to be kind of clear and help walk us through this. The mechanism of what happens, if best case scenario, because we're worried about best case scenario, downtown Elgin all of a sudden is so popular that every single parking space is filled. And that you all have spaces that people are willing to come and fight with council for. So I just want to kind of walk through that hypothetical, if that ever were to happen. Because that's where I'm not fully understanding. When I see forever, obviously that sets off some alarm bells, but also I think there was some experience that says it's not necessarily locked and set forever. So I don't know who can walk us through that, like what that hypothetical would be.

Sure, I can perhaps elaborate a little on it because I wrote that language and put that language in there with the express understanding of what we're trying to unravel right now with the Borough Building. You know, it was 1998. City was looking to bring in, you know, the renovations of the Burr building. They had to deal with Pancor. And Pancor said, well, we've got to know that we'll have parking spaces. And so the city signed away an easement in perpetuity. with one small out clause for 82 parking spaces in the pit. The out clause was, you may remember, Riverside Drive had the cantilever parking. And so if we ever wanted to develop in the pit, fine, no problem. We'll put it in the cantilever parking out over Riverside Drive. Well, that all went away. And so now there's no out clause. So now as I'm talking to various developers and we're looking at the pit without some mechanism whereby we can get out of that obligation to the owner of the bird building, because he's like, look, I enjoy having to be able to walk across that street and have my people park in that parking lot, right? Then any developer that approaches us and says, hey, let's build there. That looks great. You're in the heart of downtown. Yep, and we've got to start with 82 parking spaces. That Monday through Friday, 8 to 5, are guaranteed for the owner of the bird pool. They're free to the public in the evenings and on the weekends. So that's the type of encumbrance we don't want to make sure we get into. And that was the reason why we wrote this the way we did to say, you know, look, every year we're going to get together and see. Maybe somebody comes in and wants to develop in the Crocker lot. Wouldn't that be great? But we're going to know about those things well in advance. A multi-story, mixed-use building on the Crocker lot is not going to pop up tomorrow. It's going to be minimum 24 months planning to building under construction where it might impact someone who had designs on using some of these excess parking spaces in Fulton. And so those are the conversations that we can begin to have and say, you know, look, hey, there's about 100, 110 parking space, service parking space at the Crocker lot. Those are now all coming off the table. Those are going to flow into the Fulton Street deck. How many are we seeing? How many are we using? We might have a couple years of data. We can play with that and try and strike that balance. Or we could say, look, we are wildly successful. We're having complaints that there aren't places for people to park. And so in those instances, now, evil intentions, it's time for you guys to start to look for other types of locations. So it's a mechanism whereby we can have that conversation on an annual basis.

Okay. I appreciate that. And, uh, you know, I, I'm assuming that there's metrics that are either already known or will come out of this kind of one year check in because obviously you want assurances of like if staff changes or council changes that they don't just come in and say, oh, well, we've decided we have different feelings about X number of parking spaces. So are there metrics that are part of that evaluation annually?

Their ongoing operations will help fuel those and make those that much more specific. The table that was originally on this graphic that I put up there was their original estimate on the number of people that would come broken down on an hourly basis. That turns into number of cars. And so we were projecting that in terms of where we're trying to find the parking spaces.

I just want to make sure you all are aware of the metrics that are being used. So thank you for giving those details. Sure. And also, I've heard similar things in the past. I've been around Elgin long enough to hear people say, like, you know, sometimes it's hard to work with the city. Based on what I'm reading here and the conversation, what you all did to help move this forward, I hope this goes down as a moment where staff has been good to work with. I don't want to put words in your mouth or anybody else's mouth, but it seems like you all are doing a lot to try and make this work, and even planning and zoning all the... the evaluations that went into this and the consideration. So I think that rests on my questions and comments. Okay. Anything else? Ms. Paul.

Yes. I wanted to address two issues. The mayor, I think, said something about there was a parking problem downtown when people want to come downtown to have dinner. I guess I disagree with that. People in the suburbs think that it's a problem if they can't park directly in front of where they're going. There's plenty of parking downtown. You might have to walk a block you know, park in one of the parking decks that, as we've already established, there's plenty of space available downtown. It doesn't hurt people to walk. I mean, unless you're physically disabled and that we do have handicapped parking downtown. But I think everybody, including myself, could stand to walk a block. to go patronize downtown. So that's a mindset. That's not a deficit of parking, first. Second, if I could ask, Mark, the city of Elgin owns a vacant lot that's directly next door to where this is being proposed. Can you pull that up on the screen, please?

Actually, it's right there on the screen. Point that out. Are you talking about this lot right here the one?

Yeah, that was to the south. Yes. Yes that that lot with the Used to be the moose Used to be the moose site so and I bring that up because as I'm listening to the conversations up here and we're saying hey you need to find somewhere else to park. I've spoken to Mike and his team. They were looking for private places, private parking in that area to purchase. So for anyone up here who is in favor of this motion, I would ask, are you interested in selling this vacant city lot to this business? It's been vacant for how long, Mark?

When did the moose get knocked down eight to ten years ago?

It's been baking for a long time It has not been developed. I'm sure Mike would you be interested in buying that lot for parking?

We absolutely would.

Okay. All right, so I'm not putting words in your mouth I'm just saying hey, let's let's let's let's put let's put our our money where our mouth is if we're so concerned about them having private parking, I wanna see these same council members bring back a proposal or we can go into executive session in the next couple weeks and set a price to sell this lot to Evil Intentions. That's my comment. We don't have any pending developers that have given us proposals for that lot, do we?

That would be made as a condition for approval? For them to purchase the lot? Is that your plan? I'm not going that far.

No, I'm not going that far, but all I'm saying, Mayor, is we come up with these things and these barriers But like I said, we own property right there that would be perfect for a lot. And they've already said that they'd be interested in purchasing it from us and putting a lot there. That would help solve the problem. Bingo. That's, man, common sense is winning today.

Certainly be willing to listen to it, but you better find out who else is using that to park.

It's grassy. It's a grass lot, so no one's parking there now.

I'm just saying that maybe this is why we should wait because that's a very difficult. I don't know if you've really looked at it. That's going up a hill. That's very difficult right there and how expensive that would be. So I would just kind of like wait and see somebody could look at that and see how expensive that would be to do. i mean it's up to you or you guys are the business people i'm just saying because that would have been done a long time ago people would be waiting in line to go ahead and buy that but it's just my comment okay mr stephan i i wanted to make some more comments um

The motion that was proposed initially was a three year sunset. Three years you're gonna be out, you have to find your own parking. Then it was let's review the things after three years. My point is Mark's already put in there and we've already had people talk about it. I'll just read the sentence. Prior to the start of every haunted house season, either happens before the first tickets be sold or september 1st whichever is sooner the operator of the haunted house shall meet with the director of the community development so if mark isn't here in the next couple years somebody's mentioned that staffer council could change or his designee to determine where customers and employees will park for the upcoming season so we've already got an annual review we don't have to wait three years what was at first proposed as a cutoff of all public parking after three years. Then it was proposed we should visit it in three years. We don't have to wait three years. We're gonna do it three times before the third year anniversary, according to what's already been proposed. So I'm comfortable with that and I'm comfortable with the staff and the owners working on this. I think we're doing a lot of, doom scrolling about what could happen to our parking downtown and how we have to protect it now but i think i think other people have said let's let's see how this goes i said let's be flexible let's get this thing going let's see how it works we're going to find out where people may not pre-buy any tickets and they all are going to show up and try to drop off right in front of your door on state street they're going to try to park there that's the worst case scenario we're going to find all that out we'll have to figure it out but I appreciate that you guys are gonna be meeting biweekly and then you're gonna have this annual meeting. Let's figure out how this is gonna go. So I can't support the amendment either, the motion to amend, because I think it's already taken care of in the language in the proposal.

Okay, anything else?

Mr. Thorne. Thank you, Mayor. One thing I just wanted to touch on, being that I'm familiar with the grass land, is that the back half of it, as it is sloped, was the original parking for the Moose Lodge. So it's not too sloped. The front part has a slope down and then flattens out. That's where the building was. And so that's could have some, a portion of that have a little challenge, but overall I think it's got, it would yield a lot of parking places. I compliment Councilwoman Powell's thought pattern here. and uh... i think that's a great idea it i did want to make one comment uh... mister mullock my grandparents lived and crystal one sixty six in the late forties and early fifties and they always pronounced it ludica so i just thought i would just i would tell you that that's how it was ludicrous downstairs ludicrous and i also want it Thank you guys because I think it's a great idea. I've been in the building many times because Will Anderson used to have his antique store in there and I've got a, one of my prized antiques actually came from there. And it's a neat building. It actually, if you didn't know what that small little portion that extends on the roof was, that was because they had a model up on the roof of a windmill. And you could go up the stairs and then out the last door, which was enclosed, to the roof to see that windmill. And that's what that is for that's up there. And of course that was back in probably the 20s. but it's a great building and for you to bring your business back to Elgin I think is great. The last thing I wanna do and I sound like I agree with different ones here is to think that I wanna put a barrier on new coming. It did sound as though part of what Councilman Ortiz was saying was that after three years, He didn't like the fact that we're just offering this free parking option almost in perpetuity. That word wasn't used, I know, but there was no timeline on it. And it was like, here's what we're gonna give you. And I kind of took his comment as that after three years, show us a plan, but if the plan doesn't pass, then it doesn't change. But maybe there's a different business down there that's gonna make a notable difference in the demand for that parking. That's how I took it. And the mayor somewhat expounded on that.

That's all. Okay. Anything else? Mr. Dixon.

I'll keep it short. We have been having conversations over the multiple years about our downtown and wanting to see our downtown go to the next level. And here we are having a business come into our community saying, hey, we're going to have people be in your downtown. and we're having conversations around parking. I just think that at this point, this is nonsensical. We want people to be in our downtown. And then in addition to that, we're not having this conversation about parking with any other business in our downtown. We're not telling any business in our downtown, hey, you can use our public parking for so long, but then after three years, you have to find your own parking. No, that doesn't make any sense. We have the space available. for the public to use. We want people to frequent our community, specifically our downtown, stay in our downtown, spend money, right? Because they're going to end up walking back and forth. That shuttle is not going to be there every two minutes. Some people are going to end up walking. I don't know if that's a safety thing, but that's just the fact of the matter. And we want them to go past our bars. We want them to go past our restaurants. We want our downtown to have people to have motion. So, you know, I... We keep I've never had a conversation. I don't think I'll ever remember having a conversation this long about parking. I just don't get it at this point. So that's that's all I had to say.

Miss Martinez and then Mr. Yeah.

I don't think we're preventing you from doing anything. As a matter of fact, I'm hoping in three years you make so much money that you buy that parking lot and more parking lots, really. That's not the intention here. Evil intentions, I get it, but that's not the intention. And so we're just asking this for another vote in two weeks and we'll find out. We'll find out a lot of things. That's all I'm looking at. Thank you.

Okay. Mr. Good. I retract. There was a question about the adjacent lot, but that's kind of not part of this discussion right now.

Okay.

Anything else? All right, we have a motion.

Mayor? Mayor?

Oh, excuse me.

Mr. Mayor, thank you. A quick statement. Mr. Fitzpatrick's business is a 20-year business. It's a nationally recognized brand that hires 120 employees and currently will only operate for those six weeks. But with the subsequent phases that you will be seeing come before you, it's intended to be a year-round business. The common thread amongst all of the council members is care for the city, and we recognize that. We didn't propose the Fulton parking lot. It was in collaboration with Mr. Maillat and his team. We were looking at other lots. Mr. Fitzpatrick's ticketing system called Ticket Spice has the ability to move people the day of or the next day, immediately alerting them on their phone. as to which lot to go. So the flexibility in providing parking for his customers is already embedded into our proposal. We never want to infringe on other businesses, but please see him as a tax revenue and tax producing business that doesn't take up a storefront on that downtown row, but provides the foot traffic that the others enjoy that he also wants to take advantage of. To put Again, I understand the council member put it forward as concern for the city, but to put a restriction in advance of no longer being able to use public parking would restrict his business only to people who came to the private lots away from the downtown area and it's a symbiosis. If this is the sixth biggest city or economy in Illinois and this is one of the top brands, we want that as a symbiosis in Elgin and that's why we came back. So I hope you'd consider that in your decision now and that it be on record whenever we review this, whether in one year, weekly, or three. Thank you. So your intention is that this runs year-round? Thank you. Not to complicate it. Subsequently, as mentioned in Mr. Maillat's presentation, there would be the potential of a bar or escape rooms on a smaller scale that was year-round. Correct. It does not have the volume of this first phase of a haunt. This is the core of his business revenue and brand.

Okay. Yeah, I was just saying the 2,500 person footprint is one thing. And so, yeah, like I said, I was going to withdraw my question, but the lot across the street, obviously this is going to be an evolving business. We'll see how Elgin responds to it and the surrounding area. But we're having all this conversation up here. You're the one trying to start a bit or reestablish a different footprint for your business. Do you see an advantage at all to having us be more formal with these check-ins? Because as it stands right now, I believe Mark's done a good job of creating the mechanism so you all are speaking the same language year over year. But because you do see an evolving business model potentially in this lot across the street, do you have any input on that?

No, I just think it's great that we keep in contact, that we keep checking in and working together to make sure, because things are going to change, and hopefully things will keep evolving. And I think as long as we work together, we'll always be able to figure out a solution for others.

Okay. Great, so that's something that we need to consider. I know this is kind of on the fly. We had a ton of information come through the packet. I've not had a chance to speak with you personally, but I'm aware of your location that's been really successful on the east side. So I just want us to be part of this collaborative process as well. Make sure you know what to expect. We know that we're gonna see some changes in the downtown, but I think for all those who are downtown, that parking lot's been empty for a long time. But at the same time, you know, if there's going to be other parcels in play and something that you might want to code or develop, I don't know, would it be helpful to have a more intentional check-in? So something to consider.

Okay. Anything else? Think we beat this up pretty well. Okay clerk please call a roll. We have a motion. We have a motion. Is it clear on the motion?

We're voting on the amendment first? Yes.

This is the motion to amend. Motion to amend. Condition seven in section three.

Can you restate that motion here please?

Yeah. So I think Just to give full scope of what I'm interpreting this. So the business operation plan that is being approved or would be approved is already substantial conformance with addendum B, which is their operational plan for parking, traffic, and crowd management. That included the use of certain city lots, public parking facilities. Condition seven then further modifies that and says in addition to the parking facilities that were identified in their previous plans from July 1st, 2026, the city has the right to require parking and other things and what's been discussed tonight is the Fulton parking deck. So that's what seven as well as other things. um you know the city already has discretion with respect to the parking facilities but this makes it explicit and matches what was discussed by mark in his initial presentation so the way i'm understanding councilman ortiz's amendment is that the section seven this condition seven would be further amended to provide that in three years as part of their operational and parking plan that that plan would be revisited and that the owners um would have to, along with the city, would look at the business operations with respect to the parking facilities at the Fulton parking deck and come back with an eye towards whether or not that should be moved to some kind of private parking, that they should explore private parking options. And I would review this and come up with some language that the council would then, I guess, vote on at the next meeting. Does that sound correct, Council Member Ortiz?

Yes, corporation also the hard revisit in three years and see if I like Miss Powell's idea. So the open green space that we have, but how Miss Martina says and they might know or not, but grading, grading is moving dirt is the most expensive thing in construction. So I'm on board with selling selling property because I'm not in the landlord business. So if we're gonna sell property and I'm on board with that too. So, but yes, to answer your original question, yes.

They explore private parking and options and whether or not the current proposal is working or that they should migrate some of their parking or all their parking to private parking options. And they would have that discussion in three years with the city.

And again, it would be a discussion. Okay, clerk, please call the roll.

Council members Alfaro? No to the amendment. Dixon?

No.

Good. Yes.

Martinez? Yes. Ortiz? Yes. Powell? No. Steffen?

No.

Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. I'll come back and revisit in three years. So motion passes, motion to amend passes 5-4. And we'll see you in two weeks. Mr. Beck, correct? We have to vote on the regular. Oh, it'll be, yeah, that's right.

We have to vote on the regular.

If you want to come back, then a motion to postpone to the next meeting would be in order.

Motion to postpone to the next meeting.

Second.

Motion to postpone the vote to the next meeting.

I have a question.

Ms. Powell.

So... Does delaying the adoption of this portion of the ordinance affect anything that they're doing that they need to open and do what they need to do to be a functional business?

They can't open without the zoning approval. However, we will continue to work with them on their building permit plans to get that advanced and we could handle it as a remodeling permit if they were in some way, shape, or form to be able to get building permit plans in an approvable form prior to city council's consideration. So the short answer is no.

Short answer is no. But because the ordinance does contain zoning language.

Right, this is entirely related to the concept of the land use, the zoning. What we're also working on is a parallel track on getting them a building permit so that they can go in there and do the life safety and renovations that they need to do as well. If it got to the point where that was ready to be approved prior to city council's approval, that can still be approved. There would just be no occupancy attached to that permit. It would be a permit to remodel. So there's no encumbrance on waiting until August 12th, I believe is the next date. We're not at crunch time yet.

Well, we have other crunches that we're working on.

We are at crunch time.

Yes, council members, if I may speak, it's mathematically impossible for him. There are hand-designed sets that he would have to put up. So let's try it the way as Mr. Milad has put forward. If we wait for the conditional use permit, for two, four weeks, but he does get to start building immediately, then what is the guarantee that it would pass then? The other way, if we know this portion is secure and the permit is settled, then as soon as that building permit is settled, he can start his processes. We're really advocating for its concurrent approval, and in fact, Mr. Milad has said it many, many times. He wants to be sure that what Mr. Fitzpatrick does in the building is safe for everyone in Elgin. And we're trying to deliver that. That's been very taxing. The process has been very taxing. If we wait two plus weeks for another approval, then you're asking him, let's say he got the building permit tomorrow, hypothetically. then he takes a huge investment and gamble to hope that this gets approved two, four weeks from now, weeks away from start. And then if he starts then, he won't make it. I don't understand your processes completely, but please consider that in your discussion.

Mr. Stephan had his hand up as well. No, I'll defer. Ms. O'Farrill.

I just want to say that, continuing from the last conversation, barriers and more barriers that we keep continuing to put on businesses that we don't need to put on businesses. So I would ask that Council Member Ortiz reconsider or like re-vote and approve the ordinance now. And if you want the three years, that we bring it back at a different time so it doesn't hold up the business right now. I will still vote against that three-year, but at least it does not impact this business right now. They could get what they need right now. They could move forward, and in two weeks, we could bring something back or in a month that revises it that puts in your request.

Mr. Manager. Thank you, Mayor. Mark. Sir. While this ordinance is being amended, is there anything that will prohibit you or your department from continuing work on approving the building permit? No, sir. Okay. but that's not the issue the issue is they don't want to risk spending their money if they don't know that they're going to have the vote tonight they're really reluctant to spend the money well it would only be the persons who didn't vote for the amendment that would have to change their mind because there was a majority that voted for this with approval it would have to be others that changed with that there's there's an approval there's an approval with the three-month Excuse me, with a three-year review. It's there.

There was no language. We didn't get clear language. There was so much confusion on it, and so I wouldn't be able to vote on something where I didn't have clear language.

My understanding is right now we're considering a motion to postpone this for three weeks until the next meeting. They're telling us they can't wait three weeks. To your point, Diana, just vote it down and then let's vote on the ordinance with the proposed amendment that passed five before. That's my suggestion. Let's not postpone this for three weeks. Let's get the vote done today.

Because we have all this language. We all see this language, right?

Well, the amendment's already in place. No, that's what I'm saying. It's been approved. Now let's not postpone the ordinance. Let's get it voted on tonight. Right, and then bring back the changes. So there's a motion to postpone. I don't know if there's been a second.

No.

Chris, you want to step in and help us with what?

So, I mean, there's a motion to amend the ordinance.

That passed 5-4.

Correct. So, at this point, there's the original motion, which is to approve the ordinance as amended. We don't have the specific language of what that is. And what's been discussed is that This would be the final adoption. The ordinance would be continued to the next meeting. During that time, I would write the final language of the ordinance, and then the final language of the ordinance would be voted on. So there's been a motion to that effect. I mean, that has to be approved by the city council.

I move we approve the ordinance that's before us under item two with the amendment that just passed five to four. That's my motion. There's already a motion on the floor. Which is?

Mine.

Two. Yours already passed.

We already know the postpone.

All right, then let's vote on the motion to postpone. Who wants to postpone us for three weeks and maybe ruin a business? Let's have the vote.

I don't think anyone's seconded it.

Yeah, okay, or maybe there isn't a second. So if there's no second, then that will die. Is there a second to Anthony's motion?

Nobody wants it like six times.

Okay. All right. Then now I will propose we pass the ordinance. That's item two on our agenda with the amendment that just passed five to four. Will somebody second that?

John, you can't put a motion on the floor. There's already one on the floor with the second row. Seconded the motion that I put and that passed five to four.

Now we're back to the original ordinance.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It had a second?

Let's vote on it.

Let's vote on the motion to postpone. So we have to vote on that. Let's do it.

But before we vote...

Okay, Mr. Ortiz.

Mr. Beck, from what we discussed and then your interpretation of what you have written on your memo pad of how you're going to amend the language for that paragraph, if we motion to approve this now with that amendment in it, would you still be able to revise it with what you have? Because I don't like legislating on the die, especially with how you're trying to do it or how you're trying to reword it. So how comfortable would you be to disapprove it with what you have jotted down?

I mean, I can give some options. I mean, if the council wants to, table this for a minute or take a recess. I mean, I can put together some language, but I mean, I don't like legislating from the dais either. You know, you can do a preliminary vote, I guess. I don't know what, if they want some direction, but if you want to adopt the ordinance under Mr. Steffen's motion, subject to the approval of the city council, I mean, that's not really how ordinances are passed. It's usually in a final form. So, I can take your direction, but are you looking, maybe you could provide some direction to what you're looking for me at this point. I mean.

Or Council Member Ortiz, would you be willing to bring it back later?

I think I understand the purpose of the motion.

What was that, Mr. Beck? What are we doing? Let's get this done.

I think I understand the purpose of the motion. I mean, the amendment.

The amendment passed. We're back to the ordinance. Right. Let's pass the ordinance. John, I got the floor.

Can you give me a second, please?

Figure something out. Let's get this done.

All right. I'll rescind my motion to postpone and then motion to approve with the amendment. You don't like that, Mr. Haro?

I don't like voting on something you don't see in writing. That's why I was suggesting we approve the ordinance that's written here. And in two weeks, we bring your amendment back in writing and you guys could vote and put that back in there. We all see it in writing. We approve this right now as written. We all see this language. And in two weeks, corporate counsel Beck brings the revised language, revised number seven with your language in there. We all see it, right? That might interpret some of those change differently because now we could see it. We clearly understand it. And then we have that vote in two weeks and that doesn't help a whole of them. They know that they're approved. They know what might happen in two weeks. What might happen in two weeks is that there's a three year versus a yearly.

but but but they already know they have the five they went past five four with the amendment so they already know that they have five people that said yes to the three-year checkup it's not guaranteed well then one of you four one of the four that voted no for the year through your checkup could change your mind there was so much confusion with your motion

And there's so much, I would like to see it in writing.

Okay, so the first motion, I just have to clarify, because the first motion was not a motion to approve the ordinance as amended, it was a motion to amend the ordinance. There hasn't been a vote yet on a motion to approve the ordinance as amended, that's what, still needs to happen so we can do a motion to approve the ordinance as amended and language to be approved by the city or by the corporation council we can postpone it and bring that language back in a couple weeks we could approve the original form of the agreement and then come back with motion to reconsider if the amendment doesn't go forward but just going by parliamentary procedure i want to I want to try to work at a solution that comports with the city code and Robert's Rules of Order and also it seems like everybody wants to give the developer some assurances to go forward with their business plan. So I can't tell the council what to do it's up to the council to direct me but those are some of the options.

Well, based on what you said, I will move once again to approve the ordinance that's item two on the agenda with the amendment that passed five to four. Do I have a second?

Second.

Okay. And that's understood that it will come back in final form. Chris, you have three weeks to get us something back that we'll be able to look at as Councilman Alfaro wants. for final approval, which is what's, that's the normal process anyway. Yes. And this will allow you to move forward.

But you could also vote not to add it on in three weeks? Am I hearing that correctly?

The amendment already passed. The amendment passed.

but we don't know what it says. We won't know until the, forgive me, and I mean it genuinely, the council will memorialize it and bring it back. Do you vote again on it then? Yes. Yeah.

So in other words, it's not final tonight.

Yeah.

That's right. I don't want to complicate this. It would not come back. I mean, this is... would not come back this is an ordinance so when you adopt the ordinance the ordinance is adopted um without writing it being a form to be approved by the corporation council and you just would vote on this with you know some trust that i would be able to correctly synthesize what was discussed and that would be the final form of the ordinance okay um you know right if it were So if there was a vote and the ordinance was adopted, the only way to come back is somebody on the prevailing side would have to do a motion to reconsider, bring it back, which could happen with any ordinance, any item. So I mean, there's always that option.

Or it could happen tonight, right?

Or it could happen tonight. But there's no, it would not come back. There's no procedure for that to come back after tonight. If the ordinance is voted on and approved.

Ms. Powell.

Thank you, Mayor. I'm just really disappointed in what took place over this last half hour or so, this whole discussion. As the motion that we are going to be voting on, I will reluctantly vote in favor of it for the sole reason that this business owner, who, let me point out, had a business, a very successful business in Elgin, he's a proven commodity, this is not a fly-by-night, is currently operating in Maple Park and wants to come back here. And we are doing this nonsense. This is embarrassing. This is embarrassing. We already have language in here, as John has pointed out not once but twice, that they will be having conversations with staff every year before their season starts about parking. This is a level of redundancy that is unnecessary. So when we start wondering why, oh, why is it so empty downtown at night? Like I wonder that when I'm downtown. This is gonna bring people downtown. They're going to go to the bars and the restaurants. That is precisely as Councilman Dixon, as Councilwoman Alfaro mentioned. That is the whole point of doing stuff like this. Thank you. Thank you for bringing, for wanting to bring your business back to Elgin. My son went to your haunted house when it was at the casket factory. He was so doggone scared, he said he wasn't going back again. So you must know what you're doing. Now he's 20 now, he'll probably, do your new thing, but he was pretty young. But this is so ridiculous and this is embarrassing. I will vote for this for the sole reason that this business owner has said they need assurance tonight in order to move forward. And if we don't pass this ordinance with this language, and I do understand and appreciate what Community Development Director Millat said, none of this of what we're doing tonight will impact their ability to get building permits during this process. Thank you for that assurance. But I'm listening to what they're saying. They heard you. We all heard you. They need the assurance that this ordinance language is going to be approved tonight. And I hope everybody up here heard and understood that in plain English. If not, Deanna, can you translate in Spanish so maybe people understand a little bit better? I'm just at a loss at this point. So... Reluctantly, I'll vote for this, and I'm sure some other folks will reluctantly vote for this as well for the very reasons I stated. Thank you.

Mr. Goode, you had your hand up.

Yeah, I just wanted to say I agree with a lot of what was just said. This is... It asked you like, hey, would it make sense to formalize this in a three-year cadence? It was not meant to open this up. So to Councilwoman Alfaro's point, ideally, we have the paper in front of us. We do understand that this is a seasonal business. You're trying to get this up and running for the sake of the community. This is an item on both agendas because we are trying to expedite the process. So taking all the variables into consideration, I too will vote to support this, even though it's not going through the ideal process where we see it in paper in front of us. I think what we were describing was not impactful on like you deploying for this year the next year the year after that if anything it's formalizing that relationship with the city um so i know you're looking for a sign of good faith and you know like you're moving forward with the council on your side um personally i can only speak for myself i definitely am um the injection of this was not in any way attempt to like make your life worse if anything it's meant to formalize it we can have ongoing intentional conversations as you're describing you want to have a year-round operation that's dynamic um the downtown you know it's it's an old antiquated place but there's a lot of changes taking place simultaneously so um to what my colleague said, I will pass this or I will vote to pass this. It's not ideal, you know, apologies for this going a little bit longer than it maybe should have, but I just want to say for myself personally, you know, fully support this endeavor that you're launching this new chapter in Elgin. Okay. Anything else?

Ms. O'Farrill.

I want to apologize because I will not vote in favor. I can't vote for something I can't see in writing. So I appreciate council member Powell reluctantly voting in favor of it, but I personally cannot vote for something I can't see. And I apologize that there's government oversight and overreach on this council because it was clearly stated here as council member Powell Stephan has mentioned, it said here clearly every year there would be a conversation about parking. Every year that conversation would happen with community development. And it says here that this agreement shall not be constructed by the haunted house as an ongoing reservation. That information was already in there. And so I apologize that my council members are not okay with approving it the way it's written right now.

Mr. Dixon. Yeah, I just want to say, kind of took the words out of our mouth, our apologies for this, you know, having this level of conversation up here. Definitely, definitely not a good look. And what I feel is a level of political pettiness that is affecting our businesses and there are ramifications for that. So I'll be supporting this, even though I'm apprehensive, of course, about the language that's gonna come back in a few weeks, not seeing that it is, but I don't want to stop this business from being able to go forward with some level of security. And I'm confident that when it does come back, well i'm not confident well i can hope that more political pettiness is not injected further stopping this from being able to go forward so it's not coming back this is it this is it i'm sorry okay all right we have a motion does it we have a motion to approve the ordinance please call the roll council members alfaro no sorry dixon Yes.

Good. Yes. Martinez. Yes. Ortiz. Yes. Powell. Yes. Stephan. Yes. Thorne.

Yes.

Mayor Captain.

Yes. Motions approved, 8-1. Congratulations.

Congratulations.

Okay, brings us to item three, is a resolution authorizing the execution and submittal of a grant application to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity for the Elgin Sports Complex Expansion Project.

Move for approval. Second. Moved and seconded for approval.

Any discussion? Hearing none, clerk, please call the roll.

Councilmember Zafaro. Abstain. Dixon. Yes, Martinez. Yes Ortiz. Yes.

Yes Yes, motions approved 8-0 with one abstention authorization for payments Move approval second move the second for approval any discussion Hearing none clerk, please call the roll Yes Yes.

Good.

Yes.

Martinez. Yes. Ortiz.

Yes.

Powell. Yes. Stephan. Yes. Thorne.

Yes.

Mayor Captain.

Yes. Motions approved 9-0. Consent agenda. Move for approval. Second. Moved and second for approval. Any discussion? Hearing none. Clerk please call the roll.

Councilmember Zaffaro? Yes. Dixon?

Yes. Good? Yes.

Martinez? Yes. Ortiz? Yes. Powell? Yes. Steffen? Yes. Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. Motion's approved 9-0. Miscellaneous business. Move approval.

Second.

Moved and seconded for approval. Any discussion? Hearing none, court please call the roll.

Council Members Alfaro? Yes. Dixon? Good?

Yes.

Martinez? Yes. Ortiz?

Yes.

Powell? Yes. Steffen?

Yes.

Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. The motion's approved 9-0. Announcements. The next Committee of the Whole meeting will be Wednesday, August 12, 2026, at 6 p.m. in the City Council Chambers. The next regular meeting of the Elgin City Council will be Wednesday, August 12, 2026, at 7 p.m. in the Council Chambers. I'd entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. Move and a second to adjourn. Clerk, please call the roll.

Council Members Alfaro? Yes. Dixon? Yes. Good?

Yes.

Martinez? Yes. Ortiz?

Yes.

Powell? Yes. Steffen?

Yes.

Thorne?

Yes.

Mayor Captain?

Yes. We are adjourned.