Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. Hit the mic without symbol on the outside. Oh, the top. Yeah. Yeah. It's 7:01 on September 8th. Town of Winchester Planning and Zoning Commission. We'll do a roll call starting on the left. Rrista Malanka, Adami, Peter Marshian, Plat Chairman, Charlene Levoy, John Cooney is absent and excused. So we'll seat Charlene for tonight. And uh Scott did call in and let us know he would not be able to make it.

Okay. So he's absent and excused, too. Um, agenda review. Does anybody have anything you want to add or change? Is there any public comment to anything that's not on the agenda tonight? No. Okay. Uh so the first thing is we'll open the public hearing for PZ25- PZ25-15 occupation Scott Davis location 142 Main Street proposal special permit to construct two residential units on the first floor of the former commercial space and residential units on the second floor for a total of four residential units.

How you doing? So, you spoke to us last time about what you want to do. Could you do it again tonight for us? Give us a quick runback. Well, there's two apartments upstairs and then the bottom, I guess, was still commercial, so I just wanted it to be two apartments downstairs. Then the person that's buying it is going to be able to buy it as a four family. I mean, he's been waiting for years. All right. Um, that's about all you want to tell us about that's it. Okay.

I don't know what else you need. Any comment from the board? Well, looking at the staff report, I think um it says prior to closing the hearing, commission should have a discussion about adding as a condition of approval the proper screening of the dumpster pad, including swinging gates to allow access to the dumpster and provide screening. So, um did you provide information to um the land use staff about the dumpster screening? Yeah. Well, what they gave me, they said they just wanted screened around three three sides. That's what they gave me on the um on the requirement. Yeah. But that you didn't update the safe plan to that yet, right?

No, no, it's Yeah, it's got it's got six feet on three sides. Yes. You installed it? Yes. Jeeoff, have you had a chance to look at that? I have. Uh yeah, as a matter of fact, I I went I took a handful of pictures uh of the site conditions. I did meet uh the property manager on site to just sort of walk through and point out some uh some blighted conditions that should be addressed. I also discussed the dumpster uh enclosure that they started to work on um and some other conditions. So, I can run through those photos uh for you. But um it does actually require a gate on the front as well. Um,

well, because last week, I mean, last time I was here, they told me the requirement was three sides and then they said there was never something in the Yeah. So, after after a deeper dive into the regulations in a different section, it does require It does not. See, they never gave me that. Okay. Because I mean, everybody's been through there. Yeah. Yeah. Two building inspectors, fire marshals.

Yep. That's not their bid. That's that's the zoning folks. So that's uh our fault if we only uh brought up the three and didn't correct ourselves with the gate on the other side. Uh however, the the construction of the enclosure as it is now might need a little work anyway. Uh I think that might be one of the conditions of approval tonight, but I don't want to speak for the commission. Yeah. So it's something so I want to bring it up while the public hearing's open so we can have that conversation. And um and you you think it's something that maybe we can craft a condition for approval to address? Yeah, I believe so. So,

uh I see uh marked 12156 parking spaces and then the asphalt. The asphalt, does it continue into the back? I'm going to refer to I guess back of the yard behind the garage. Is that as tube? Yes. Okay. And that that goes into the Where's the entrance to the garage from the asphalt? Is that it's from the side, but nobody uses that garage. The garage is in the back, per se. Yeah. I mean, you know what they did? It's all storage in there. Yeah.

Yeah. And then there's also on I would say that is the north side of the property in front of the garage. Yeah. Yeah. It's well on uh Walnut Street. It's Yeah, it's front of the house. We got a asphalt path that's sort of elevated per se. Right here, that's where your dumpster enclosure is. There's a there's a wall there. There's a wall there. And then there's also going all the way way around here. I know that's I know it goes all the way back. I'm not Yeah, I guess it goes

This So, this building was used for as a restaurant or Yeah, it used to be a restaurant and a bar upstairs. So, they were trying to maximize I assume parking across the whole Oh, yeah. I mean, even people parked in the street back then. And so you're intending to do is uh primarily just housing, right? Primarily is what? Just housing. Yes.

Um is there a need for that additional asphalt in the back or should we should we consider recovering some of that to to green space for for your tenants, residents? It looks like the whole lot is almost impervious except for the front. I mean, what they do is like they do some of the I Well, I know one of the tents he does some work back there on stuff. I guess he collects metal or something. What tends to happen with open impervious surfaces, people collect things in the long-term storage for whatever that doesn't drive anymore or just Yeah, there you go. Um,

pictures of I thought I saw a picture of a camper, too. That should be removed from that. Okay. Is that an unregistered car? It doesn't have a license plate on the front. But so my question is, does all this asphalt serve a purpose anymore? Is it degradated to the point where would be better served? Where's this car, Scott? That's on the side of the next over here. Yeah, it's right here. Right here. You probably didn't even know it was back there. Wow.

It's funny. I went I went around the whole property, too. I didn't go back back in there. That's right. Next. That's the garage. So, it's right It's right right along here. Right at the back of the property. Yeah. Okay. You have to go look at We're not changing the right. requested just to expand the use to for additional. Well, it' be removing the commercial use. Yep. And making it all a four family residential only based on the application. And that pavement in the back by the garage, is that being used? Is that something you would consider removing?

I didn't removing it now.

Does it exceed improve coverage for for this? Uh I don't know. Does it? Uh it might, but the nature of the application with no site work being done per se. There there's not really an opportunity to ask. Well, you could ask uh but to require a reduction is not there because we're also not changing the use. just expanded. Well, commercial to all residential, but you know, no uh structural changes, no heartscaping changes, anything like that, right? And the residential is permitted in the town center. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I think there might be a greater opportunity for improvement uh with the new owner that's coming in. Uh presumably going to be doing some cleanup work and so on and so forth. because he's got other property in town and he's got a crew too. So,

and we have enough spaces to serve the four obviously got enough there. I think it's one and a half per Yeah. So, you see the striped parking there in yellow. I assume you're looking at the same site plan. And in addition to that, there's even, you know, more unstriped parking available above uh where the dumpster enclosure is. And currently there's a a camper and a and a truck parked and some other bulky materials. Yeah, he's selling.

Yeah, we're getting there. Anything left to that brick patio? Oh, yeah. That's still all there. Yeah, that's where they used to neat. Yeah. So, it's the same. I've been there when it was Jesse's. Right. Right. So, that fence I only I only had the building. I never participated in anything else. Actually, I didn't even participate in the building. Let me think about it.

So, your fence that's around the patio is in pretty sad shape. And I think that's going to be one of our conditions tonight. Probably we're going to ask for because it's basically falling down. You want to look at it. So I I think looking at these pictures I mean typically on I I would be very hesitant to allow residential on the first floor. We really commercial spaces on the first floor. Um, in this situation, it really does look more like a house. It's set back from the road. It's a little different than the rest of Main Street. So, I think that the use might be okay, but being that it is on Main Street, I think a condition would be to to we can call out some of them, but any bladed conditions need to be removed

in order for that to to move forward because it is like, right, primed location. Um, my opinion, suitable for residential, but uh, well, it was it was originally residential. Yeah, it's different to me than, you know, some other stuff, ground floor

type type main street, but um, we do want it to look nice. We do want our main street to be cleaned up. So, any blighted conditions that Jeff may have, the fence, unregistered cars, the dumpster enclosure, I think need to be be corrected. That's a good segue. We could run through these photos if you like. I had didn't get a chance to type up my list of conditions. Uh, but this must be the brick patio that Charlene was inquiring about. Uh, still here on the side of the property. The interior view really paints a better picture of um the state of the fence. Uh, as you can see around here, um, I'll just take it through the top in no particular order. uh if one of the conditions ends up being to remove all vestages of the commercial business, the little barber pole back here is still there for no no good reason. Um on the front you've got uh your post from the sign which has been taken down, but the the post themselves should probably be removed. The awning uh could be reconstructed if you want to keep it there, but in this state it would need to come down or be redone. Um, hard to show in the picture here, but you do have some uh growth in the gutters uh coming up that should be addressed. Um, just another view of the fence. Nothing big there. Uh, this is actually a view into the back of the property from uh the parking lot at the old Morsel Monk, the new Lotus Nail Salon. Uh, so you see the fencing stops and now you can see in uh just some scrap metal piles like like Scott mentioned, one of the tenants there uh does some some scrapping. Uh you look further to the right in that area. You find uh the car which hasn't moved in some time. Uh this will need to be removed. The uh roof of the garage is not in great shape. Uh you've got plenty

of growth on there as well. Um, but again, you know, these are conditions that uh I wanted to get on a friendly so some could get addressed now, but the owner also know the the buyer knows coming in what's expected of him. So these basically you're showing us blight conditions. Yeah.

So can we put that in our approval just to satisfy your blight conditions for or do we have to spell them all each individual one out? I think uh let me go regular order of business with the the blight letter. Uh it'll all be addressed through that one way or the other. I wouldn't want to bog down your conditional approval too much with that because it's got its own avenue. Um but certainly the uh commercial uh things that remain. I think that's appropriate for you to address. Y um

maybe the fence that's sort of on the border, but we're going to get it addressed one way or another. Now go back to the front view of the where the sign was in the awning. Uh, sure. So to the uh maybe you had another view that showed the porch more. This one here. So that porch is that got enclosed for the restaurant. So is that li living space now? Yes, it is. So that was converted to living space. Yes. Okay. So with us. I mean, there's no basement there.

There's no basement under it or anything. Is that something that is that allowed? First of all, that might be be more of a building uh official question. I'm not sure. I could tell you when I was on the grounds today, I uh poked underneath here because the lattice uh gate was open. Uh so there is no foundation under there. It's, you know, I mean, that used to be dining area when it was a restaurant and the windows were open and it was really a neat place to go. Yeah. Uh, but I'm just a little concerned that that's been converted to living space without being properly converted.

Oh, well, uh, permits, building permits have all been pulled. Everything has been inspected. Uh, while some of this work predates the permits, it's all been inspected now and deemed appropriate and acceptable. So, I can tell you that much. I don't know the particulars of it, but I did check with the fire marshal. There was no code violations as far as the fire marshall's concerned either. President.

All right. So, we're thinking about removing all the exterior restaurant, commercial equipment that's on the outside. Uh, replace dumpster enclosure, remove unregistered vehicles, uh, replace deteriorating fence that's falling down now. Well, the way I write it is a remove or replace because they don't have to have the fence, right? So, that's So, do you option

again? that could be in the the blight letter rather than the conditional approval, but how however you want to do it. So, what's the board's feeling on that? Why we're still in open public hearing here? Tear it down required to be replaced. Well, I I think if we I think to Jeff's point, conditioning it and all the the things might might bog it down, but I do think I do think we want this site plan. Um the site plan shows the shows.

Well, the not the site plan, the right. So we have to address that with the special exception approval to be conditioned on all violations being remediated. Um and then you don't get a seal until those are done, right? So um and it doesn't hold up the approval allows you to move forward with the use, but making sure that that site gets cleaned up. So, I don't have a necessarily have a preference if the fence gets put back or um or taken down because the whole site will be cleaned up. All that junk will be right. And so, um but what I was reading to see is if we had a condition for violations. Well, even if even if that isn't tied to this action, his office will continue forward with blight the blight ordinance, right? I mean, so we don't I mean that's not something we usually do. I mean,

no. So, he's so we can make our approval. Yeah. His office is satisfaction. Yeah. or the corrupion of the plate issues. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's going to get handled. Yeah. And then you enforce it that way. But you're not you your blade won't require the removal of all the existing commercials or would it? Uh no. That I think is a good condition of your approval because they don't technically fall into blight with the exception of maybe the awning uh scer if we put conditions on it or if we wait for the blight to get done because the blight can take a year or more.

Well, it could, but in this case, we have uh a willing seller and a willing buyer who all benefit from we're only hearing from the seller, not the buyer. Oh, true. Okay. Uh he'll be willing one side. Get him. Yeah. All we're hearing is one side at this point. True. And if we don't put conditions, we're stuck with it. So yeah, that's my argument. Like I said, it doesn't matter to me because it's going to get hit on one way or the other. So if I if I remember correctly here, you said there's already four units in there. They're just not permitted, right? From a zoning standpoint.

From the zoning standpoint, there's already four units. They're not permitted. Are they rented now? No, it's been like that for I don't know. At least 10 years, probably more. I don't know what happened. They they went down and they they had the top approved, then they went down and had the bottom approved. And I don't know what I guess town records had it one way for one part and the other part of the town had it. No, it wasn't. I wasn't really involved. I I don't know what happened back then, but I mean they had the I'm going to say the four units like that probably about 10 years,

but there's no existing CO on the place. Well, those units were uh converted without permits. So, yeah. Yeah. Were the upstairs permit the upstairs were were um Oh, that was a restaurant up there, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The bar was upstairs, right? Yeah. So, were any That was That was okay. Yeah, the two upstairs were okay. It's the ones on the bottom, I guess, that that's got to be approved, right? Okay. Okay. Anybody else any questions? Any questions from the audience? Comments? Come on up.

You don't usually sit on that chair on that side.

I'm 18 Cherry Street. Um, I speak this evening as a resident and taxpayer, not as a member of any border commission. I'm here this evening to voice my strong opposition to the special permit request for 142 Main Street, which would convert the former commercial space into two residential units on the first floor and two more on the second floor for a total of four residential units. I'm still very confused as to what will the total number of residential units be at 142 Main Street. Two, four or six.

Four.

I understand that 142 has been for sale for over a decade. But before moving to approve this change, I must ask, have all avenues been explored? Have incentives, grants, or loan programs been considered to encourage reinvestment into this property for commercial use? As you weigh your decision, I urge you to keep our town plan for conservation and development at the forefront. 142 Main is located at the entrance and exit of our downtown business district and it's the first and last impression people see when entering and leaving our town. This is critical gateway property and what happens here speaks volumes about our vision for our Winston. Your POC emphasizes quote smart growth principles and the green print approach protecting community character guiding future growth and supporting community facilities unquote. By adding yet another multifamily building in our business district, we move away from revitalization closer to oversaturation. The data is stated in your POC. 44% of our housing stock is multi-family. Of that, 65% is concentrated in the downtown business area. The town POC explicitly warns of an overconentration of rental units and the challenges with upkeep. Just look at the neighborhood in

this 142 to 174 Main Street block. What we need is not more apartments, but some stability. We need property owners and landlords who are invested in our community, who live here, who take some pride, and who contribute to its longterm strength. Your pod POC sets forth a clear vision. Quote, downtown should be anchored by an expanded professional and service presence. Businesses that add to the tax base, provide jobs, goods, and services to more apartments for more apartments will not achieve that. Some members on this board will remember a recent example in September 2021. A similar request was made across the street at 175 Main Street. Their special permit was a request to convert commercial space into multi-residential units. That special permit was denied. Today, that property thrives as a business, adding value, strengthening the tax base, and enhancing our community.

What is that property? It's the the sandwich shop next to Okay.

142 Maine can follow that same path if we remain committed to the plan. If this special permit is approved, our POC becomes nothing more than words on paper. But if you uphold the vision, it remains the living guiding framework that it was that it was designed to be. I respectfully ask that you deny this request and act in the best interest of our Winstead, keeping our shared version for conservation, development, and a vibrant downtown alive. Thank you. Thank you,

Jeff. Can you pull the provision appraisal on that property? Is that currently being taxed as two family, four family, one family? Yeah.

Offline for update. Maybe not. Hold. Let's see. Oh jeez. Yeah. Well, I mean that's kind of where Risk of Risa was going. That Lindsa's argument and I have to say I mean She's right in terms of all of her references to the POC. And I I think there's just one little curly cue, Lyndon, and that is that that house is a his was a historic residence and it is kind of set up on the hill there. And uh Geez, kind of falls into a weird little

I mean, what what kind of commercial space could you have there? It's a I know. And I tried for a while to I left it commercial, but nobody stayed there. I I couldn't get anybody to go in there. Yeah. Because it's a house, right? I mean, the restaurant that was I thought I was going to have a chance for when the they built the medical center for a doctor's office and they looked at it, but you know, they there was no takers for that. Too much work for that purpose. Yeah. But I mean, what They what would we end up seeing happen there, Linda, that they have to raise the building to use the the the business property?

I don't I don't know. I guess my because it is right on the corner of Walnut I mean a residential neighborhood there as I'll tell you the parking was a problem too. Yeah. For Right. Of course. I guess because it was a successful business place um and the way that it looks now and that whole area is so blighted I'm just afraid what will happen especially yeah I understand I understand what I know what you're saying well I think Jeff's getting on the blight thing though pretty heavy in this town but

but I think that's my I think that's kind of where I was going with the conditions of approval I think I think that that is an older building. It's really the character of you know our town. It's going to be very difficult to find commercial space. It doesn't lend itself to it. I know Jesse's was but that's been decades, 20 years or more. Right. Right. I think having housing downtown is important as long as it's quality housing and you know people want to live near you know things that are happening and vibrant. We need higher quality housing,

but it can't look like this. I think that's, you know, I drive by and if it's going to be residential, it has to be perfect. It has to be nice residential. It has to be cleaned up. It has to look nice. Somebody has to drive by and say, "I want to live there."

Right? you know, and and that's where I think it's part of a condition of its approval to allow it to stay residential, to remain the facade of the building as the the old historic building that it is. You know, I think we I think there's could be an argument where this is very different than what now it's a sandwich shop, which was a very commercial storefront, which is right on the sidewalk. you know, it's a very different type of building, but but to just allow junk cars and, you know, air conditioning and things fall, you know, Yeah. stuff in the gutters that that that's, you know, it needs to be cleaned up. It needs to be restored to some of its, you know,

natural facade and then brought to to, you know, a higher standard to do that. And I think somehow in our conditions, you know, not into the blight. Let Jeff handle the blight, but say that it has to it can't, you know, we're not going to issue a CO for those until it's cleaned up. That gives a little more teeth to what Jeff is trying to do and puts the time frame. And if it doesn't get done, it doesn't get to be residential.

But some of my issue right now is it's it's four four units being rented and it's not zoned for that. really permitted for that. That's why I wanted to know what the tax taxes were if they were taxing for four or they just it's not being taxed for four because the town recognized that it was four units. Uh I'm almost certain that the assessor still had it as commercial on the bottom and the two units above. So they were just sliding through. Okay.

Anybody else have anything? I I mean, so as as the current property owner, what are your thoughts on on cleaning it up and the type of rental you're you're looking to do and and have there? How many how many bedrooms are each unit? There's on this walnut side, there's two um one bedrooms. Then on the other side, it's um I'm guessing on this I think there's two bedrooms upstairs and three downstairs on the downstairs part. So you have a three bedroom, a two bedroom, two one bedrooms.

I just checked down. I mean, I didn't know it was I didn't know it wasn't four units until the bank, you know, when they wanted to prove it for the bank. What guy went down there and saw he goes he went back to the person I was buying and said it's not for units. That's the only time I knew it wasn't. Has the housing inspector been down there? ever. Yes. No, he just went um everyone's been there late.

Yeah, everybody's from what might have happened in the past. I couldn't tell. Down um was maybe like 10 days ago or so. Something like that. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And he just said two things had to be he wanted another outlet and some skim coating done. So if he's granted the approval and it is a four unit property, it will be regularly inspected both housing and fire because it meets that level. Uh back when it was two residential units, it should have been getting inspected anyhow because of the mixed use with the business, but I I don't have my time machine.

Yeah. So it's really the question is how far can this commission go in putting those kinds of uh conditions on it like cleaning up the gutters and stuff like that? That's comes under Jeff's blight. That's right. So can we even say those things? Well, I think we can. I think we can say that as part of a petition. you have in the past. Any other violations or zoning need to be remediated before CO is before before the he gets granted the approval for for a family the blight conditions must be met. Okay. So not specify what those blight conditions are.

Yeah. Yeah. So before we we can approve the zone change before we approve the zone change we can make a condition not a zone change special exception. Oh right right. It's not a zone change with a condition. Yeah. Yeah. So, are your plate conditions are they spelled out now? Have you got a letter or something? Here we go. Well, like I said at the beginning, I haven't had a chance to type them out yet, but all the pictures that we've cycled through of each one represents at least one issue that I'm going to be listing there. And Scott, I am going to ask you for uh contact information for the buyer, too. I want to know if everything two family or four family or two family with commercial.

You're probably gonna see it, but stories I didn't bring my phone, but I got his number on my phone. Yeah, I'll get No, it's up now. They're there. The assessor's page is up. I'm looking at seeing Scott brought up, you know, you got two one bedrooms. You got a threebedroom there. So, there's obviously going to be some kids in one of the rentals. Um, you're talking about just saying remove the fence. You've got a two plus foot drop off from the property into the joining parking lot. There there should be a fence there because if there's going to be kids in that yard, there needs to be a fence when they're playing out in that yard. So, they're either not going into Main Street or they're not going into falling off into that parking lot.

That's my opinion. 94. That's assessor talk. I'm not sure. I think there's a code here. Yeah. Apartment over four MDL. What What is under use code 3070. Yeah, I see residential comm MDL94. 307. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't doesn't tell us what the real definition is, but you have both residential and commercial in the term itself. So, it was still a mix. So,

but I don't think I don't think it's uh I think it's apartment Does it tell you how many units? It doesn't. It says apartment over 4 MDL and it doesn't. So, so this will eventually get cleaned up to match your They obviously were in there doing it without any approval. So, they just made it into a three two or four. Yeah. Building use. Total rooms 10. Total bedrooms two. Total baths two. So, now you have four bathrooms in there, right? It says two on the assessor's card. Two bathrooms. Okay. So, that it's being assessed at two units, right? Yeah.

Okay. Total bedrooms, two, total baths, two. That'll get cleaned up with the assessor's office, too. Uh the land use office has been working with them on a few different uh problem properties uh to match reality and assessor information. So, my only thoughts really worries are that if we require the blight conditions to be corrected before it gets proved a four family that we don't have the blank conditions spelled out listed spelled out. So should we

put off the approval until he comes back the next meeting with the list? Yeah. Yeah. What do you What do you guys think? Well, I

that's that's my that's I mean it's a tricky property because it was a multi- it was a resident turned into a business. Now it's back to residents. It's got not approval for some of the residents that are there. So, we need to get it cleaned up because the dumpster faces the church and faces the street and the dumpster should be fenced in four sides with the gates. Uh, the blade conditions need to be addressed. But I think we need to have a list of the white conditions before we because we're going to just say all blade conditions and then somebody can say, "Well, that wasn't wasn't there. Yeah, I get your point. Um, those conditions are always a snapshot in time. Anyhow,

that could change tomorrow, right? Could be better, could be worse. Pile of brush that was there could be gone tomorrow. The pile of metal could be gone the next day. Car could be gone.

It's I did intend to have a full list for you, but I had another meeting prior to this meeting. I think these conditions that, you know, we've brought up and suggested, I I think they're reasonable and and if we we, you know, do approve those conditions, it's going to protect the town and clean up the property and let Jeff deal with other blight conditions that may appear as they appear or disappear. So I don't because we usually don't get involved in the blight enforcement stuff, you know, unless it's really drastic. So we we're saying we should uh they should replace the fence to keep the the

That's my personal opinion. I don't know about the rest of the commission, but I mean, you look at a three-bedroom apartment, there's going to be kids there, right? Do you want kids playing in the only yard to play in is to the side and you got a two. It's obvious now from the pictures that the parents are using it. and you're going to have kids falling off that wall into the hay parking lot next door or you're going to have toys or something going out on the main street. You know, you got to look at the safety aspect of it, too. All right. So, what's the board? Do we close the public hearing and vote on this or do we keep the public hearing open?

So, question I have for you is I know you looking for us to move this public hearing up earlier than we even had it. Um, is there a sale pending? And if approval of this, would that stop the sale or? Well, yeah, he's not going to buy it because he can't because the bank's not going to approve it with two units in commercial on the bottom. That that's what stopped it be the first time last October. The bank said they wouldn't approve the the the loan with commercial on the bottom. Yeah, that's typical. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Because it was basically two upstairs and one unit downstairs. They're actually married, but they wanted it separate, right? But to have four units, I had to just wall it off. And then I mean that's the only way the bank was going to approve the loan. You know, it comes down to the income.

It's a tough decision. one way we get to clean up the bite that we that's existing on Main Street and then otherwise it can just sit there and continue on until something happens. Uh but Rissa's question was u you're Mr. Davis. Yes. Was that is this immediate like this week? Can Can this Can we hold this over till we get what we're asking for from Jeff or is this like you got us closing scheduled next Wednesday or something?

Oh, no. I just got to tell him that it's either approved or not that then he can start with the bank and the um appraiser comes up. Oh, I see. So, you don't have a you don't have a sale. Yeah, I got it. Well, no, we agreed on a price and everything else. We agreed on it last October and but that's what I'm saying. I didn't realize that it because I wasn't really involved with the building. Other people You didn't realize that it was not legal. Well, they told me it was inspected on the bottom and everything was done, you know, years ago because it's been rented that way. Okay.

But I mean, I ended up there was four of us at the beginning back in ' 82 and now I ended up with it since 2019. That's when I owned all of it. But I'm not here. Would you be able to take care of How quick would you be able to take care of any of these bladed conditions? What's that again? How quick would you be able to take care of any of these? Well, every time they give me a list, we've done it, you know, immediately. So, I just got to see how fast these people can come up. I mean, whatever you tell me to do, I'm going to do. So,

because every everyone that's come through has given me a list and we've done it. It's just lucky. I mean, the people So, do you understand what we're where we're coming from with with the property and you understand what we're trying to get to? Well, that's why the reason why I wanted to sell because this guy's going to take care of it. I mean, he's got other properties here. He's got a whole crew that does everything. I don't have any I don't have that. Oh, I see. So, I see. Oh, no. I think he's going to go up and redo some of the apartments. Yeah,

I do. I mean, I'm just on a I do think um I wish I thought to do this before, but um I do think we can make a condition that the approval is contingent upon complying of other violations, complying with other flight violations and ordinances. Yeah, I I think that we like leave it broad enough and just you know that's good that's good right like that and then we don't need the list immediately

been staring at this and uh I think the the building's suitable for for residential like it's been proven suitable for commercial as well but right now it's like a hybrid of two it's it's a it's not even that it's not even function well as a hybrid right

I look at it and I can't tell what it's doing Right. And and I'm uncomfortable voting yes. And maybe it would require more time for me to think about like if this is going to be residential, it should look residential and it should function like a residential building. Um provide space for your tenants to enjoy the or at least be in the yard. I don't see a yard. Um I see a front front edge of Main Street that's not suitable for for anything, right? I don't even know if you could drive a lawn mower. Probably can, but I see a brick patio where they can enjoy some time outside. But but the rest of the rest of the lot is is either impervious coverage with uh broken asphalt, so be it. That's the condition. Um but nonfunctioning usage, uh I I'd like to see if it's going to be impervious, what's it function? is a function to serve as like the the um the walk to the back step in the apartment, right? And I and so where I was going with is maybe we're not changing usage, but we're expanding usage from from two family commercial. Commercial demanded the increase coverage previous coverage for more parking, right? But residential doesn't demand that much parking. They demand more open space um and serve as a as a residential yard. Um If if it's previous coverage, I'm going to try to lean on that. See if uh as a condition of approval that you remove some of the previous coverage and reopen some of the space that's to to decree and so that's where I'm at. Like I'm not going to vote yes. I I I don't think I'm standing on this one. Um if we're voting this week and I'm going to leave it another week to figure out if I can if I can drive the the the yard to serve as a resident usage. I'm

I'm try to do that. That's where I'm coming from.

Do you have some more pictures of the the yard where the car was and stuff? I do.

We've held up permits in the past, permits for for issues to be addressed, whether they are polite. So, okay. So, here you've got the uh courtyard brick p. We lost this one.

Uh, which is by and large fenced in. Uh, the house would be to the structure would be to your right hand side of this photo. Um to Adam's point, um so beyond this popup skeleton and the fence here, uh is that patio and you've got all this pavement back here, uh which leads you to the garage which isn't being used for parking. Uh in addition to the side of the garage where we saw the uh Volkswagen before, um the garage itself is in rough shape, too. Uh, I'm hoping to have a conversation with the prospective buyer about all this stuff to see what his plans are. If the garage is going to come down, maybe the garage and the asphalt could also come up and provide a backyard for the recreation space that that you're talking about. But I just caution you, I don't think you can force that. Um, and what I was doing before I pulled the pictures back up,

uh, was just looking at the impervious coverage in Town Center, which is what this 70% is and they're allowed um so yeah okay to make things even more uh interesting impervious surface coverage is not listed in town center but uh building coverages. Yeah minimum

so there might be a different way to skin that cap but I think a conversation with the the buyer uh could maybe get us to where we want to be or find out he's not interested in that. Um, so if it is the pleasure to keep to not vote tonight, I can make that contact uh get an idea of what his plans are, go over the blight list with him as well as Scott and you know, we could report back. Well, the blight's a current condition immediately, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I I do think we could I mean, so he's not proposing any changes. So, I think we could say, you know, it's the existing non-conforming,

you know, we can't have them change. But since he's coming in for a special exception, which does require a site plan for us to look at um saying that um the suitable location for use um and appropriate improvements, whether the site improvements associated with the proposed development, location of the building and activities, design of buildings, extent landscaping will be attractive and suitable in relation to the site and the existing and probable future character of the neighborhood. I I think we can say, you know, if if you I think to um Miss Grappo's point, it's Main Street. We want commercial activities and it was set up to be commercial with parking and more pavement style, kind of that front looking, but if you want us to consider it to be residential, what is the benefits of doing that? making it look like a residential lot, preserving the facade of the historic building, you know, and those are the things I think we would want to see for it to be residential.

Yeah. Making it look and function as a residence. You can't have the best of both worlds or you keep it as a commercial lot fully paved with parking in a garage in a dump big dumpster and then ask for it to be residential, right? I I I think I think Adam brings a good point and I think that under our special permit regulations, we can ask for appropriate improvements. Um and but because it's non-conforming, maybe it doesn't have to meet exactly. We can maybe have some But how are we going to set those tonight? I don't think well I don't those appropriate conditions. I I think if you're amendable, I think it would be most suitable for us to continue the public hearing, take this back and come back with some some revisions. Do you have a picture of the dumpster?

Yeah. Better one than I had. Are you saying the dumpster was commercial or what I'm saying is No, cuz they they made No, I know you need to have a dumpster. I know you need to have a dumpster because it's four or you could have four toters or whatever. No, they didn't give me that choice. They said because it's four family, I have to put a dumpster in there. Really? Yeah. That's what they gave me. That's why I have that dumpster. I would have never did it.

I would say I don't know if that's in the regs. I'd have to research it. I didn't tell you that. Uh but I think a dumpster is probably more appropriate. We have some problem properties on Main Street right now that the towers stay on the road well past when they should for two days. The sidewalks, the dumpster doesn't allow for that fenced appropriately. But my my point is

there's a reason that residential on the first floor is a special exception in the downtown center zone, right? because we want commercial in our town center. This is kind of a unique property and I think there might be some benefit to allowing you to be residential, but it that needs to add to what needs to look residential. [Music] So, where the dumpster is now, there's a truck and a camper there. Um, those are tenants vehicles. Yes.

All right. So, possibility we could move one of your parking spots up to there and actually reduce some of the uh impervious because as it looks in that picture, you've got the six spots at the house. You don't count that up there as being parking. that's not listed, right? It's not listed as being parking. So, it could be argued later on that that's not parking. So, if it's going to be if you're using that as parking, then that can count as a spot down around the house that we could eliminate. And

yeah, I don't know why he didn't because he when he did the site, he told me that like we had six and he goes, "You got two more up top." Two more on top. So, your site plan should show the two on top, I think. Yeah. I don't know why he didn't do that because even That's what he even said. You have more than enough. You needed six. I had eight. Would like to see more parking up there and less. Well, you're back either way. Probably.

I think we're all pretty much torn on this. I think yeah, I think we're all pretty much on the same page. You know, we we we try to get there. Yeah. We we want to see something happen there. We want to work with you. We want to see that cleaned up. Well, I mean, yeah, if you give me the list, I mean, like like they've all done. I mean, I've had four different lists. I I do it immediately.

So, I think if we postponed or kept the public hearing open for two weeks, right? We just have two weeks. work with Jeff and then we'll figure um try to get some of those flight conditions taken care of, some adjustments to the site plan so it looks a little bit more residential and then come back with with either the improvements, the violations remediated um and actual conditions of approval to get us to where we need to go. you sticking around for a little while or you heading right back down? Well, it depends what happened here.

Good answer. I mean, I might Well, no. I mean, I I got to go back pretty soon because I I was waiting for a part on my car, so I had to They gave me another car to take up here, but I can't keep it forever now. Okay. I got to go back down and get my own car back, right? Uh, might we be able to meet on site there tomorrow? Sure. Okay. Yeah. All right. I'll be in touch. And then I mean, you just got to tell me what you guys need that it'll be approved. Yeah. I'm going to do what you guys tell me to do. We We understand where you're at, but we we need this to be more residential than

commercial. And right now you you've got a commercial property that was completely asphalted over and the use of parking and the the patio was part of the restaurant where they used that. So I don't mind some of the patio as long as it's cleaned up that looks nice. Oh, right. Right. The patio's great. I mean it's got it even got a it shows a a fence around it. So, you know, maybe there's a way to remove some of the imperous surfaces there. See, the thing is though is that he doesn't want to do all that. He wants to sell this place unless the new buyer do all that. Right. Right. Unless we put

I got I'm going to do what I And the new buyer can't buy it until he gets a I mean, I got to have it approved. We got So, I got to Yeah. Yeah. So, I think there's some really quick I've already done quite a bit of the Yanks, but

I think there's some really quick wins that can be done to to remediate some of the things that won't cost a lot of money that can be done quick. Some of the bigger ones I think Jeff, you can, you know, figure out what the new property owner's goal is. Does it remove the garage? Is it PL like what is that? We can document that to make it part of a condition of approval, but to just kind of do it on the fly tonight is a little harder. Um, but I think this conversation is good so you know we're kind of where we're headed and we can come back with a a path forward for you all in two weeks.

9:00 a.m. tomorrow work for you? Yeah. No, that's all right. Yeah. Would you uh maybe call the buyer? if he wants to meet us as well. Yeah, I'll try to get a hold of him to see what he's doing. I know you can't guarantee it, but it might behoove everyone to get us all there. Or I can see if if there's a day this week he can show up. Maybe I can ask him that. Okay. Uh it'll be either tomorrow or Wednesday. I'm off Thursday and Friday. Okay. I I'll tell him either one. Okay. No, it's not too bad. I scheduled some work up here, so I'm doing that. Yeah, no matter what that's what I did all day today. We've got to put conditions on it cuz whoever buys it has got to go by those conditions.

I do. You can't trust what he's going to do. All my friends are here. Exactly. We got to have the conditions on our I know. But that's why I think we need instead of trying to pkin conditions tonight. He's got to provide us with that. But done. But yeah, he was excited about it, too. Everybody satisfied here for tonight? Our next meeting today is Yeah. We're going to motion to continue the public hearing. Second. All in favor? That'll be the 22nd.

Two weeks. Yep. So, you're gonna you're going to give me tomorrow what everything I got to do? Yeah, we're going to meet on site. Uh, but that's going to satisfy all of them, too. Well, sure. I'm going to give you a comprehensive blacklist and then we're going to talk about ideas on making it more residential looking. While we're there, can you join me? [Music] I can't because I'm going to be here all day. The emergency state exercise all morning.

Steve Williams, that's tomorrow morning right here. I think you got it, Jeff. Or if you have questions, we can talk after. We'll get this. Yeah. As long as you just tell me get, you know. Oh, you'll you'll get a list. All right. No, because when the building inspector came down, he gave me a list. I did it all. And then another building inspected. He gave me another list. That was all inside, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I thought I did it, but then the other guy came down. Now building and then there's fire. Well, no, no, no. There's two different Oh, you got the entire the housing. We now have our full-time building official. That's what I'm saying. I got two list from them, but I thought I was done. You might be done inside, but

No, I can tell you. I mean, for the all those things that he gave me, I spent about 30,000 already. on the inside. Wow. Just the electric was there must have been a lot of violations. Yeah. Well, yeah, they I mean Yeah. Yeah. Between two of them. Yeah. They Well, electric is is a lot, you know, lots of extension cords. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Oh, that's it. Thank you. I'll be in touch tomorrow morning. All right. Yeah, I'll I'll get a hold of him and see what he's got my list there. Yes. Huh?

Yeah. Good. Well, make sure just puts them all. What's that? Adds these to the approval. Yeah. Well, Linda's comments were good, but I think we need to have every one of those. Yeah. I And she's right. I mean, we wrote that PC. I mean, she's right up. type of perspective. That that No, but that house has always been a little bit that little corner there. It's a unique Yeah. main street. The house across the street, too. Mhm. Right next to right next to the gas man. You got another residential. All residential. Yep. Exactly. Oh, the one that was used to be the bedroom. Used to be a bed and breakfast, but I mean, so you've you've got another house in that area. That's right.

So, it isn't like it's by itself. It's That's right. Right across. It's a 300y old main street. There's houses there tonight. Yeah. All right. So, now we're going to open PZ-25-14, Town of Winchester, text amendment to section 415-25 to include language that allows the commission to request technical reviews and consultations and to charge the applicant the fee of said review. Didn't we already talk about this? I remember this topic coming up. It it was brought up uh this formal discussion. Oh, okay. Now the official public hearing. So now official public hearing. Yes. We need a motion to open public hearing.

I so move to open public hearing PCC 25-14. I'll second it. All in favor? I. All right. Discussion. Discussion. It was a good idea. Absolutely need to need it needed to happen. We needed to have this language. should have been should have had it for a long time ago. The last bar association training stressed it. Stressed it big time. We needed it. If we didn't have it, we should get it. Mhm.

Uh and this language seemed to cover everything. The only language that's in the planning now is for uh L stuff, right? Basically, this language is already in the wetlands regulations.

So, we're just coming up to speed to so we'll be equal to them. I think it's a great idea. I think we should look at the one thing I would

just say from a practice standpoint. You know, if Jeff, if you have any questions of whether or not we would require that, maybe, you know, try to get to us sooner so that review can be done early in the process, you know, even pre-application type review so that it doesn't hold up approvals. When I was in New Harford, we used this a lot because we didn't have our own town engineer and I kind of at, you know, knew what the commission would want and wouldn't want and I would collect the money at the time of application. I would have sometimes even at the pre-application phase and get our engineering, you know, consultant reviewing early. So when it got to the commission, we had our engineering letter, we had everything we needed for approval. So there might be some learning curve there with what's but just Yeah,

giving you the authority to say no, I think we're going to need engineering review on this. And so the good news is uh we regularly have uh pre-application meetings, especially with larger scale projects. So I think it's one of those things where we'll know it as soon as we see it uh and let you guys know and follow that course. Engineer meeting if their engineer is coming, recommend paying the fee to have our engineer come early so they can before they get too far along with the plan designs, engineers will know what they're looking for. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, good points. Uh like you said, there will be a learning curve, I think, for the entire staff, but to have this ava a available to us is definitely a move in the right direction. And one of the news things we've got going is uh one morning a month the chairman and vice chairman of planning and zoning and ADC are meeting with the town manager and job just to discuss what's going on in town uh what's happening possible projects or things like that and if we have a head that where there we have a heads up um and that can be discussed at that meeting and say hey we think we're going to need that type of So that's going to be a regularly scheduled

that's going to be scheduled once a month. It'll be for an hour. Earlier the better. And and once you get an engineer that we use all the time, you're going to know he always looks at this. He always looks at this. This is a hot button for him. Y you know, you'll be able to tell applicants. But it's it's I say that because it's not intended to delay or stall approvals. It's intended to really give us the tools we need to speed up approvals and be able to approve them right away because they're already reviewed. Yep. Definitely avoiding engineering snafoos like the one last year that Adam caught,

right? That was just simple math. Well, whatever it was a from the reason we were able to send that out is because that's already been reviewed by inland wetlands for all that time. We use the same went to the same engineer because technically we couldn't have sent that out and charged them. Right. So, so Rissa and New Hartford, it was just a matter of um uh it wasn't written into the regs that the timetable of doing that kind of thing like you were just saying. It was practice of the Yeah. the the building department. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Was our policy? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

And you're comfortable with this stuff? I am. Yeah. Uh, as a matter of fact, the the town has a uh request out for additional engineering services right now. So, this might might tie in nicely with that. Yeah. Okay. Good. For an on on call engineer kind of thing. Yeah. But and pick a engineer for this that's used to reviewing peer reviews. Ask them to redesign it. It's a it's a peer review. Some engineering firms are better at it than others, right? Maybe you can recommend somebody if you get if you do the RFP. I can look at who's there.

I don't anything. All right. I'm I'm for it. Yes. I'm for it. Here for Yeah. I looked at this last week or two weeks ago. Motion to close the public hearing. Second. Second. No. All in favor? I I Okay, is that your second? Yes. Thank you.

So, now we're on to old business number five. PZ-25-15 application. Scott Davis, location 142 Main Street, proposed special permit to construct two residential units on the first floor in a formal commercial space and two residential units on this second floor for a total of four and that piece of business has been continued continued.

So we'll pass by that. Now we'll get to the PZ-25-14 applicant town of Winchester proposal text amendment to section 415-25 to include language that allows the commission to request technical reviews and consultations and to charge the applicant the fee of said review. Uh we have a draft motion here. Want to read it?

All right. Uh to approve application 25-14 zoning regulation change applicant town of Winchester. A motion that the Winchester Planning and Zoning Commission adopt the following zoning regulations. Text amendments. Text amendment to section 415-25 to include language that allows the commission to request technical reviews and consultations and to charge the applicant the fee of said review. Is that a motion? That's a draft motion. That's the draft motion. I'll second it.

Okay. All in favor? I'm sorry. I thought we did the public hearing. That was a public hearing on the We close the public hearing. Yeah. All right. Unanimous. Sign it up. Need a pen. We're going to sign it twice. Why? Oh, where I made by I one thing to add to the motion before you sign it to become effective October 1st, 2025. Yes, it's an amendment to the motion because we didn't put an effective date on it.

Good thing I circled it on my paper. Yes. And I just looked at it, too. I flew right by it. I just had it. Okay. Uh, we don't need a that's a friendly amendment. So, we don't need another motion. I accept that amendment. So, to add to the um amended text to be effective October 1st, 2025.

Okay. Now sign So, item number six, new business. Let's see that it's blank. You have anything you want to add to it, Jeff?

No. No. Okay. Item number seven, other business. Is there any other business around? Any any idea when we'll ever see our printed copies of the zoning regulations, the codified ones? I don't have an answer. Okay. No, I mean Jeremy last meeting I think we asked I asked the same question. He thought they were forthcoming sometime soon, but maybe by Christmas for Christmas presents. That's a good idea. I mean, we do have zoning maps. Yes. We do have zoning maps, but I got

uh just a brief note under the uh regulations, our contract with Ecode uh is up. I need to call them tomorrow to talk about uh how often we want to do updates with them. Um in a perfect world, it would be every time we change a regulation, but that costs money. So, we're probably going to do like a twice a year kind of thing, which means we will have to keep track and put on the uh PNC website, you know, a white page when we make a change until we get it put into the regulation. Uh, but you could just ask what pricing would be, say if we did it quarterly or twice a year. That's what I would Yeah. Well, and that's part of the cost mark.

I'm just saying what you know, maybe we want to do it quarterly depending on how the pricing is. Okay. If it's reasonable at this point, we got the pricing for quarterly. Then if we decide and if we don't need it quarterly, we'll just Right. Exactly. And if it's something important that we need to get on there. I thought they posted it up there like and on on the not within the text, but as an attachment on the website on their their website and then just entered it into the text. No,

I I'll get a better idea tomorrow. because I remember her her when she was on that call, remember she was talking to us? I thought she said she would upload the documents as an attachment and they every so often enter them into the text, right? So it's it's so often that so often how right if we could have it held there, it's at least held there. So if somebody who goes there knows so we could send it every other week, you know, this is effective whenever. Uh but they hold it. Yeah, that that's a better repository than our own. Yeah, but I sort of remember her saying that, but I don't remember the details. So, if we let's see how I'm going to say this now. This one's going to be effective October 1st.

Yes. So, if we were to do it every six months, we'd have to hold off and make them effective six months in the future. No, no, you make it effective at your pleasure, but to get it uh Okay. onto the online full version. Right. All right. I got it. All right. So, let's see what else we have. Uh, approval of minutes. August 11th, 2025 regular meeting. I'll make a motion to approve the August 11th, 2025 regular meeting minutes. I'll second it. All in favor? I. [Music]

And then that wasn't unanimous. I abstain because I wasn't here. And then uh communications have anything for us, Jeff? I don't. No. Did uh you had a meeting with Mountaintop Route 800? We did. Uh so they've uh changed course a little bit. I was trying to get them to apply for an intermediary permit just for the activities that are going on there. Uh at this point they want to reapply for a new uh coring operation there.

So they're already working with the new surveyor. Uh luckily for them they have the old surveys and the topo hasn't changed much if at all from back then. Uh so WY is working on that and that application should be forthcoming. Where is it? Uh the old pepper property last quarry in town on the Torington border on the right side of Route 800. The last property in Winston. So yeah, they they've got uh plans. I don't think anything immediate. Uh but blasting is going to commence up there and open up some development opportunities for the future. Well, he's got a big auction coming up because he's closing down a quarter. So I don't know which one's closing. To be the one in Torington within the next year or two. Yeah, but the

Oh, yeah. He did mention that meeting that the uh Torington spot behind uh I forget which plaza now, but uh that they're done there. Yeah. So maybe that's because he's got his last approval a year like a year ago, year and a half ago from Torington. That was the last approval and he'll be at his limit when he can go there. And I mean they're they're pushing stuff out of there fast. So So he he needs stone. Yeah. So on these quarry approvals, they come in with a survey and is there any federal regulations on queries that they should also

comply with like not that I'm aware of. Well, they have to do for blasting and things like that they have and all the other stuff and everything else that stuff. But other than that, there's nothing mining standard that they have to comply with. I don't think so. Like for setbacks and stuff.

Well, I I can mention that he plans to leave a substantial buffer uh towards the top of the mountain and the lake. Uh we were talking about I don't have the topo in front of me, but uh I think 910 uh is maybe the cut off point of the elevation there. So, if you get a chance to look at that, you'll see how much is going to be left. Uh, I think he's cognizant of the the residents back there and their desires to not hear blasting, which they'll still hear, but it hit the drain for the lake. But I think, you know, there I think it's the fire is it the fire marshal that that that has all the blasting blasting is all under fire marshal. Yeah.

Yeah. So, that but you know, you see mining inspectors come into different mines to do things. I'm just if these type of places have to be regulated or not, whether they have to comply to any national standard. Yeah. Not that I'm aware of, but they're, you know, also not mining caverns to Yeah, if that's where you're They're digging big holes. Oh, yeah. All right. I think we need to find that one out. All right. We'll do a deeper dive. I don't think there is. There's never been any that I

Is um is he going to have to go to wetlands for that also because of that brook stream that comes down between the two properties? Good question. I mean if the activities Yeah. I mean there's the stream right there because I know he owns the joining property also. He does up to the telephone company and all the way up and there's some discussion of maybe combining the combining all that but exactly but there is a stream there. Mhm. So yeah. anything within the review area? Yeah, that's the only thing I was going to going to mention. So, something to look at from a communication standpoint. I sent an email out.

Um, and if you guys didn't get it, just let me know. But there's a there's like really four pretty good events coming up. One is this Thursday, which is the creative economy summit, which is talking about how arts, culture, the creative economies really keep communities vibrant and support local businesses. Um then we have in September there's the regional housing summit. This is put on byfield center litfield county center for housing opportunity. Um it's held up in

Sharon. Is it Sharon? Sharon I signed up for but it is our it does include us. The commissioner of housing is going to be there. Um that's usually a pretty good event. Um October 4th is the Connecticut Greenway Connecticut Trail Symposium. Um and that's at Manchester College. There's a lot of great um events, breakout sessions for that. That's a good event. And then lastly on October 23rd, I think it is a Thursday, we're having a manufacturing expo to celebrate manufacturing in Northwest Connecticut. October is manufacturing month. We're bringing in a lot of state resources, but also aimed at um as much for leaders in the manufacturing industry, municipal leaders who work with manufacturing companies to help guide and inform them. So um a lot of state representation and resources will be there for that too. So um I did send email and details. I just wanted to make sure you saw it and that they're all really good. Feel free to share it. Everybody's welcome.

Yes, he did. So the first one you talked about arch and stuff. Yeah. There's a gentleman in Winston here, Neil McInness. He has a lot of contacts in that field down south and he was trying to get that more to the forefront here in Winston. Yeah. And it didn't seem like it went anywhere like he could get anybody to listen. He should and he he he wrote up a whole paper. Tell him about this uh for the plan. Did you know him? Tell him have him come on Thursday. Did he give us that? You said he wrote it plan zoning. Yeah. To us. No, no, I'm sorry. EDC. Oh, okay.

I'm sorry. EDC. Yeah. I'd be happy to have my Jeff, but yeah, he should come. All right. You should come. If you send it out, I'll forward it for you. I'll send it. Um I'm a moderator for one of the panels and we got Niels at Little Red Barn to be one of the speakers. So, we're promote stick there. Okay. Anybody? Anything else? Walmart. Make a motion. There so we can't enforce that. All in favor? I Yeah. Yep. Unanimous. Unanimous. I mean, this is for like multif family, right?

But try to drive would be the most, right? Yeah. The parking lot. That's that's why I mean pulling that parking. There's a there's a two foot offic she totally went she totally bent that one all the way. But there is a there is a police officer out there. Yeah. Well, I'm on the other side. Uh oh. Well, what's going on? He's right there. Are you right there? Exactly. And that's what's needed, you know. And then there's one for you. You need privacy for main street. You know, they've got to have something around the property with a three bedroom. You're going to have kids. That's why it's not a hit in her arm. That's my concern.

So, I was going to try to drive that into you. Yeah. So, yeah, exactly. That there is a way for us to use