City Council - Regular Meeting

February 10, Port Orchard City Council regular meeting. And, in the actions we're about to take take this evening, I would like to remind us of our guiding principles. Are we raising the bar in all our actions? Are we honoring the past but not living in the past? Are we building positive connections with our community and outside partners? And is the decision making process building a diverse, equitable, and inclusive community? Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

All

right. We have a published agenda for this evening. Are there any proposed modifications to this evening's agenda? Council Member Mosby?

Mayor, I move to approve the agenda.

I'll defer to Council Member Mosby.

Yes, Mayor. I move to add an executive session with no action to the end of our meeting this

k. After adjournment or actually after good of the order then. Second. Okay. There's a a motion and a second to add an executive session after good of the order and prior to adjournment with no action to be taken afterwards. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, that has been added. Council Member Rose Pepe?

Aye. Mayor, I'd like to move to approve the agenda as amended.

Second. Motion by Council Member Rose Pepe, a second by Council Member Terneri to approve the agenda as amended. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed?

The agenda has been set for this evening. Tonight is a bit of a unique we've got an unique aspect to our meeting. We're gonna have a a the council will hold a closed record hearing on a on the site specific rezone application LU 25 rezone dash zero one filed by applicant Noel Larson on behalf of nineteen o nine Holdings. I will now gavel, the closed record hearing open at this point. This will be a quasi judicial hearing based on the record created by the hearing examiner on 12/03/2025.

This is a closed record proceeding and no new information or testimony beyond the record created by the hearing examiner will be allowed. Tonight, the city council will consider the hearing examiner's recommendation to approve the rezone request by the applicant. The order of this proceeding will be as followed. The city attorney will walk the council through mandatory quasi judicial disclosures. The staff will then provide a brief summary of the matter and the hearing examiner's recommendation.

The applicant may then provide statements but only refer to statements made to the hearing examiner and no new information or arguments may be provided. The council may ask questions. The members of the public who testified at the hearing before the hearing examiner may reiterate their comments but will only refer to statements made to the hearing examiner. No new information or arguments may be provided. The council may ask questions.

The applicant may provide a response to the public comments and the council may ask questions. Council will then hold a closed session per RCW forty two point thirty point one four zero two which is similar to an executive session been based on a different governing statute. The city council will then turn return to open session for discussion and may issue a decision. I now invite the city attorney, Charlotte Archer, to review the proceedings We will follow for the hearing and any initial matters. Miss Archer?

Thank you, mister mayor. As you explained, this evening's proceeding is slightly different than what we normally do. Tonight, the city council, for the purposes of this closed record hearing, is sitting in what's referred to as a quasi judicial manner. This means you are sitting as judges to judge a specific request related to property rights. As judges, the council needs to be impartial, review the record established at the public hearing which occurred before the hearing examiner on 12/03/2025, and review the application through the lens of the applicable standards under the Port Orchard Municipal Code.

This also means the council needs to meet certain standards to sit as a judge, just as a judge would. These standards are based on the appearance of fairness doctrine which is set out at RCW forty two thirty six thousand and sixty, and that requires the council to be fair by avoiding actual bias, but to also appear fair, meaning even where no actual bias exists, there may be a potential conflict that we ask for you to disclose. In addition, the doctrine requires council members to disclose any contacts that they may have had with any party or any member of the public about this matter. Those are referred to as ex parte contacts. As a preliminary matter, I would like to put on the record that all council members have had contact with the city clerk and city staff regarding the meeting materials, meeting procedures, and the scheduling of tonight's hearing.

These communications were included in the packet for the applicant and public. As a second preliminary matter, I would put on the record that all council members, with the exclusion of our newest council member, have received public comment during previous council meetings related to this matter. I recall at least one meeting where it was discussed. Because these communications were provided during the public comment period and are publicly available, this disclosure is significant is sufficient. So I will now proceed to ask a series of questions of the council members to address the elements of the appearance of fairness doctrine.

I will also ask a question intended to identify whether you have had any ex parte communications. So please, provide a verbal response when you are prompted. If you respond yes to any of these questions, I'm going to then ask you to state whether you are electing to recuse yourself from these proceedings. If you choose to recuse yourself, you will be asked to leave the room for the remainder of just these proceedings. Once the meeting resumes, you'll be invited back. So I am gonna go, because this is the first time we've done this as a council, I'm gonna do this individually. I often do it as a group, but I think it's a useful measure to to go through the first time. So I'm gonna start with council member Diener. And, please answer yes or no verbally. Do you have a financial or personal interest in the real property or this application?

No. Do you have a do you stand to gain or lose financially from the counsel's decision on this application? No. Do you have any reason to believe that you cannot hear and consider this matter in a fair and objective manner due to actual or potential bias? No. Have you had any contact with the applicant, their legal representative, or any other person about this application? No. Thank you. Council member Dedmon, do you have any financial or personal interest in this real property or application? Do you stand to gain or lose financially from the council's decision on this application?

Do you have any reason to believe that you cannot hear and consider this matter in a fair and objective manner due to actual or potential bias? Have you had any contact with the applicant, their legal representative, or any other person about this application? Thank you. Councilmember Morrissey, do you have any do you have a financial or personal interest in this real property or application? No. Do you stand to gain or lose financially from the council's decision on this application? No. Do you have any reason to believe you cannot hear and consider this matter in a fair and objective manner due to actual or potential bias? No. Have you had any contact with the applicant, legal representative, or any other person about this application?

No. Thank you. Councilmember Rosa Pepe, do you have a financial or personal interest in this real property or application? No. Do you stand to gain or lose financially from the council's decision on this application? No. Do you have any reason to believe that you cannot hear and consider this matter in a fair and objective manner due to actual or potential bias? No. Have you had any contact with the applicant, their legal representative, or any other person about this application? No. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, you're not a deliberating party, we do not do disclosures as to you. Councilmember Tranari, do you have a financial or personal interest in this real property or application? No.

Do you stand to gain or lose financially from the council's decision on this application? No. Do you have any reason to believe that you cannot hear and consider this matter in a fair and objective manner due to actual or potential bias? No. Have you had any contact with the applicant, their legal representative, or any other person about this application? No. Thank you. Councilor Fenton, do you have a financial or personal interest in this real property or application? No. Do you stand to gain or lose financially from the council's decision on this application? No. Do you have any reason to believe that you cannot hear and consider this matter in a fair and objective manner due to actual or potential bias? No. Have you had any contact with the applicant, their legal representative, or any other person about this application?

No. Okay. Thank you.

Do you have a financial or personal interest in this real property or application? No. Do you stand to gain or lose financially from the council's decision on this application? No. Do you have any reason to believe you cannot hear and consider this matter in a fair and objective manner due to actual or potential bias? No. Have you had any contact with the applicant, their legal representatives, or any other person about this application? No. Okay. Thank you, counsel.

So now we turn to the public, including anyone that's attending online. Does anyone present wish to state a challenge to any city council member's disclosures or their participation in this hearing on appearness of fairness doctrine grounds? If so, please raise your hand if you're online or raise your hand if you're in the audience. Alright. So hearing no challenge on the appearance of fairness grounds, the city council members are now ready to proceed with this hearing. So mister mayor, we can continue with the hearing script.

We will now proceed with the closed record hearing. As mentioned, only staff, the applicant, and those members of the public that testified at the public hearing on 12/03/2025 may testify. No in new information may be provided, and the discussion is to be based solely on the record created by the hearing examiner. I understand city staff has submitted information regarding the notices that were published and and sent for this hearing. That information was included in the published packet.

The packet published packet also include all the materials submitted to the hearing examiner including the staff report application and submitted public comments as well as the recording of the hearing. Next we will proceed with a short summary of the staff report submitted to the hearing examiner from staff. Mr. Bond, this is you.

Good evening mayor and members of council. I'm here tonight to talk to you about the site specific rezone application LU 25 rezone dash 01. This is the Hull Avenue rezone proposal. I first wanted to note that I did send an email yesterday indicating that there was an addition to your city council packet. And what was pointed out to the city by one of the parties of record was that there's an incorrect statement in the hearing examiner decision on page three that states no public testimony was received, but then the hearing examiner decision goes on to explain some of the public testimony that was received.

And so I assume this is a copy and paste type error. We had asked the clerk to add a computer generated transcript to the packet so that you would have records of all the testimony that was received in the public hearing before the hearing examiner. I wanna talk about the public hearing notices that were provided. The notice of the public hearing before the hearing examiner included a 300 foot mailing radius notice that went out to all properties within the 300 foot radius as well as a legal notice in the Kitsap Sun, the city's newspaper of record. Similarly for tonight's closed record hearing, we sent out a mailer for properties within 300 feet of the proposed rezoned property And again a legal notice appeared in the Kitsap Sun, our newspaper of record.

To summarize the site specific rezone, the proposal is to take this property from an R2 to an R3 zoning. The biggest differences between R2 and R3 is that the R3 zone allows for the apartment building type. So you can have an apartment building versus just up to a fourplex in the R2 Zone. Also the unit density for lots in the R3 goes from four units per lot in the R2 District to six units per lot in the R3 District. And in the report provided by staff to the hearing examiner, staff did not provide either in favor or against the proposed rezone.

The hearing examiner decision that was provided in your packet includes a recommendation of approval from the hearing examiner. The hearing examiner found that the proposal meets the criteria for granting a rezone as found in Port Virginia Municipal Code Section 20.42.030 including consistency with the comprehensive plan, consistency with the purpose of the zone, consistency between zone criteria and area characteristics, the zoning history and precedential effect of possible rezone, the impact of more intense zones on the less intense zones, physical buffers, lot lines, boundaries between residential and nonresidential areas, as well as evaluation of the impacts of the rezone. We also, in that staff or in the hearing examiner summary, the hearing examiner noted, some changes that are recently enacted by House Bill eleven ten that had to be incorporated into the city's zoning code in the past, periodic update cycle and update to the development regulations. That concludes my report. Thank you.

Vaughn. Does the applicant wish to speak to the council?

Does the council wish for me to If

you wish to speak, you'd step to the microphone and we ask that you keep your comments to ten minutes or less. And as stated previously, you need to stick to the comments that were made at at the

Of course.

At at the hearing.

Since I've never done anything like this before, I'll just go ahead and I'm Noel Larson, the applicant for the rezone. I live at 821 DeKalb Street in Port Orchard because this is not anything I've ever done. I'm just gonna go ahead and summarize what I said at the public hearing. For my testimony at the hearing examiner meeting on 12/03/2025, I made three points. Three or four points.

The first point was, neighborhoods to the north and south of the subject property already have sidewalks. Sidewalks in the neighborhoods to the north connect to downtown. The subject property will act as a connector between neighborhoods to the south, creating an unbroken pedestrian pathway for homes to the south, including Forest Lawn, to access downtown. So it's basically an infill type situation. The intent of the rezone to r three is to allow additional option of apartments.

This equates to a modest increase in density over what could be built under r two. In either case, frontage improvements would be included. The subject properties are in the urban growth area and a rezone to R three aligns with the Growth Management Act and Port Orchard comprehensive plan. Additionally, the Port Orchard Municipal Code addresses many of the concerns that were presented by neighboring property owners. A mixture of densities is not unusual in Port Orchard, Menards Glen at Jackson And Lund, Orchard Point at Pottery in Lippert, and the Kiwi Apartments on Sydney are a few examples of where apartment complexes are mixed in with single family neighborhoods.

My understanding is that this is a this council review a closed record, and I trust that the city will ensure any summary stay within the existing records so the process remains fair for everyone. Thank you.

Any questions for mister Larson before he steps away from the podium? Any questions? All right. Thank you Mr. Is there any member of the public who testified at the hearing wish to address the city council?

If there's anyone online you would use the raise your hand feature and we would bring you into the meeting. Looks like someone there.

Okay. Miss Wallstrom can be admitted. Yep.

If you could identify yourself for the record, and my script says that I'm members of the public are asked to keep their remarks to two minutes or less and only speak to the same comments that were made at the hearing.

Thank you. I was present at that hearing. I'd like to point out since the Washington House Bill eleven ten was brought up, it does already at R2 enable the four units which would suit that. Some of the concerns from the hearing examiner report that I have is that the basis for and crux of the argument is that there has been a change of criteria and criteria has been met based on changes within the community. The rezoning of Forestong was done in 1977.

So that definitely is a well past situation. And the permitting process for it took place in February 2024, while the comprehensive plan for the city was published in December 2024. So based on when this application was even submitted, there are no changes in criteria. Additionally, in the hearing examiner's report, one of the important notes was land use eight LU Dash 8 emphasizing maintaining small town character while ensuring housing diversity. Our neighborhood does feel that Forestong is a red herring and it doesn't really match the character of the neighborhood additionally since it is not near any transit centers, which is part of the promotion to the greater density of six units for housing bill eleven ten.

So LU 8 is already being served with the middle housing level of R 2, where R 3 doesn't serve it any justice. It's just more apartments. And the H test two that was quoted, it is intended to support residents at all stages of life. And the apartments are definitely more consolidated to a certain stage of life. And we have residents in more distant parts of this neighborhood with triplexes and duplexes or four plexes that have been in those homes for almost decades.

And so we know that the neighborhood has borne out the tendency to like support and work well with that sort of housing.

Alright.

I am almost done.

Okay. And I must ask that you narrow your comments to the statements that you made at the hearing examiner and not speak to the hearing examiner's report that you're so I I need you to narrow your remarks to comments that you made at the hearing.

Correct. And the topics you discussed at the hearing as a reminder were storm water, vegetation, and slope stability?

I definitely did discuss the character of the neighborhood. I did not discuss a variety of housing. But to continue, so please strike HS2 from my testimony. But to continue the reference to RCW36.70A.07 parentheses two, again, referencing neighborhood character and using the case law of Amin, I can't recall. I've already addressed the character of the neighborhood.

Once again, I did do it in the hearing at the time in December. And in climate policy CC-27B, there is a direct statement in the comprehensive plan that growth should be directed towards area with lower hazard risk. And since the comprehensive plan is on target to meet its growth goals already with the zoning that has been laid out in the comprehensive plan, moving toward this higher risk area doesn't make sense. And in the hearing examiner report, it was laid out that that there is a wide variety of apartment places available. They are just not yet being built.

Okay. I need I need you to wrap up. You're at you're beyond your time, but if you could

That concludes my comments.

Okay. And could you identify yourself for the record?

I apologize. Athena Waldstrom. I am a resident within the 300 foot zone, which I think there's maybe only 10 of us.

Alright. Thank you. And counsel, do you have any questions for the this testifier?

Yeah. Just she stated something that, I just wanted to rehear. There the the difference of the dates she mentioned. It was the difference of the application date and the, GM GMA date, I think.

And I'm not certain that those remarks were made in the initial Yeah.

That's not the one.

Not the nineteen seventy seven one. She mentioned I

think the comp plan update.

Yeah. What was the update date that she gave? I was just curious. Is

that accurate?

Are those remarks consistent with what's in

the hearing?

Those comments were not in the underlying testimony, so we can't provide any additional information.

Oh, I thought she had said that she had stated that.

It's not we have the transcript here. It's not there.

One more question over here. You know when they say the Forest Song Forest Song, all those apartments, the the newer ones popping up, how many apartments using that?

I think at this point, we should be

Oh, okay. I just

testimony at hand. The council will have a moment, a time to deliver

Then you'll tell me.

After we take comment. Okay? Alright. Are there other members of the public wishing to testify that had previously testified on this matter? There we do have one more. Yes.

Hello. Can you hear me?

We can. If you could identify your yourself for the record, and you have three men or two minutes, excuse me, to address the council.

My name is Lindsey Paradiso. I'm also a resident within the 300 foot perimeter of the property. And if you can remind me what I spoke on, I wanna make sure that I don't say anything that is outside of what I'm allowed to talk about.

They're they're looking for it right now.

You spoke to Opposition to the rezone. Yeah. In general opposition to the rezone based on character function and long ring planning vision for the neighborhood.

Okay. Thank you. In reference to the character, and I I think I did also bring this up when I spoke the first time. But when we were made aware of this, my husband and I went around the neighborhood and talked to the neighbors. I took a petition with me, and you should have that in in your files.

But everyone that I spoke to, we seem to all be on the same page that we're not against housing. We're just against housing that doesn't make sense for our area, and this is a perfect example of something that doesn't make sense for our area. Things that do make sense, we have a few four plexes, triplexes, duplexes. That type of thing makes a lot of sense for our area. We don't have sidewalks.

I think it was mentioned that this would connect, but I'm honestly not sure how that would be possible as there's not space to put sidewalks there, and it is a blind curve. So it's a little bit dangerous. But I just wanted to reiterate that this is something that neighbors collectively oppose, and we hope that you take that into consideration. And that that'll forgo my comments. I feel like I've sent in enough of my opinion.

Alright. Thank you for your comments. Anyone from the council wishing to ask any questions from this respondent? Alright. Any Do we have the petition received?

The petition was included in the In the packet. Packet. Yes. It was submitted to the hearing examiner. Yeah. Mister Mayer, we have a Zoom user who has raised their hand. So if they can identify themselves before they start speaking, we can verify.

Online with their hand raised with the name of Zoom user. We just need to be able to identify you so that make sure that you're you're eligible to participate in the deliberation or or provide comment.

Just allow him to speak. Yeah.

He could speak. We

Okay. Sorry. I just had to unmute myself. My name is Savannah Coates. I live directly across from said property at 1080 Hola Avenue. My concern is we're talking about sidewalks connecting, and the only way for them to put a sidewalk in is literally to put one on my property. And I'm just confused because I'm not approved of a sidewalk that goes through my property. There's no way to connect them. My property goes right through it. There's no road room.

There's it's super dangerous at the bottom of my driveway. If you try to put a bus stop down there with a bunch of kids, it's gonna be probably an issue. There's no place to for anybody to walk safely. I don't know if you guys have actually came out here and actually looked at it, which, you know, recommendation would be great if you guys did. Because there's no way for them to safely put sidewalks that make it walkable.

If there was, there wouldn't be a problem with it, but it's not gonna be able to. There's my property that goes from the corner to them, and they're not gonna be putting a sidewalk onto my property. Also, we already have I don't know how many apartments, buildings going up, about 300 feet on the other side of us. I'm not sure why we need 500 apartment buildings in this area. I just don't feel like it's a safe thing, and I also don't feel like they're being honest when they say it's gonna be a walkable neighborhood because it's absolute absolutely not without putting the sidewalk on my property, which that's not gonna happen.

So I guess that would conclude all. My other concern would be the the safety of the kids and their bus stops and the blind. There's just no way to make it safe, but so I just hope you guys take that into consideration that there's no way to make it walkable without buying my property. So that would be all.

Thank you for your remarks. And counsel, do you have any questions for this respondent, council member?

Just remind me who was that that spoke? What was the name? Okay. Thank you.

Is there anyone else wishing to address the council if that previously testified on this matter? We have no other I see a hand raised there, but that's something else. Okay. Alright. It's a repeat. Alright. It's a repeat. Okay. Perfect. And at this point now, the applicant, if they wish to, may respond to the public commenters, and you would have up to five minutes to do so if you wish to.

Yes. Regarding the sidewalks, it was our intention, like, a song that sidewalks would actually be adjacent to our our the subject property. So I'm not sure where she's got the idea that it would be on her property. Other than that. Alright.

And in regards to that, okay.

Mister Mayor.

Yes,

ma'am. I realize my script omitted one thing which is any questions for Mr. Bond from the council to

these Alright. Are any questions for Mr. Bond from the council?

Yes. Okay. Mr. Bond, when was the application date, for this reason?

I can pull that up for you real quick.

Asked when was the the the the date of the I don't know why I can't think of the word. No. No. The the change that they're pointing to. I think it's called a

it's For a the For a Sung rezone? Is that what you're asking about?

No. No. No. No. I'm specifically asking for the the rezone application for the property that we're currently talking about. And then I'm also asking about the date that the effective date of the, I guess, GME, the change in the the GME? What's the effective date

that was? So I can tell you that the the comprehensive plan was adopted in December 2024 right before the end of the year deadline. I don't have the ordinance in front of you in front of me to give you the exact date, but it was it was at the end of the year 2024. And the

application was submitted on 03/06/2025 and was technically complete May 2025. Okay. And that's at page three sixteen of the packet. Thank you.

Questions for mister Platt? I probably should ask this to mister Larson instead. Was the school district at any time contacted about school bus stops, any issues with for for that with student pickup?

No. Again, this because this is application for just a rezone, we assume that that sort of thing would be addressed when a specific project was presented.

Okay. Thank you.

Additional

questions for director Vaughan. Hi. So what does a determination of non significance mean?

So under the State Environmental Policy Act, when we have certain projects that are not exempt from, what we call SEPA review, that's an abbreviation for the State Environmental Policy Act, you have to make a threshold determination of either significance in which case an environmental impact statement is required or there's a determination of non significance and then there's a third type called a mitigated determination of non significance. In this case we reviewed the environmental impacts of the proposal and made the determination that there was not an environmental impact of the action of rezoning. But with that said, when development is subsequently proposed you would review the impacts of that specific development again under CEPA and that's when you really capture the impacts of actual traffic counts, the number of people walking to and from a site. With a rezone, you're really speculating based on the zoning.

Respond to the school bus question at page 10 of the packet in the Hearing Examiner decision at page five, he speaks to this issue. Safety issues along the frontage of the rezone area can be mitigated during subsequent project review. Should any school bus stops be located off-site, the city can require reasonable off-site improvements such as clear shoulders to provide safe school bus access for school children.

Thank you.

I was also going to note that when we issue a CEPA determination, the school district is notified under our standard mailing, and so that's extent of any direct notification that they would receive.

Councilor Marfan?

Yeah, when you sent out that video for us to watch like a month ago and then to listen to the testaments and the examiner, I watched that thing like three times. I don't remember anything about there was a petition.

The petition that was you signed by don't recall?

Not on the video.

Okay. One second. Let me verify.

It was an exhibit to the record and so it was a written piece of testimony that was transmitted to the hearing examiner. If you go to the index, you should see that listed as one of the exhibits to the hearing examiner.

It must have been, yeah. I I knew it was in our packet to

it was submitted it was submitted in writing to the hearing examiner. It wasn't testified to, don't believe.

Actually, as we were reviewing some of the testimony, looks like a few of the the commenters didn't reference the petition in their public comments. They may have done it very quickly, so you may not have caught it in the in the transcript. Yeah.

I heard it tonight, but, yeah, I don't because I was watching that thing pretty closely.

And then it's referenced multiple times in the hearing examiner's decision where he addresses issues raised in the petition as well.

Council member Warden?

That's not not a totally easy to answer question because, number one, when you apply for development, you're gonna have to go through critical areas review to find out how much of the site is actually usable versus unusable. And then different building types have different limits in terms of how many units can be in that building type. So until the developer chooses which building type they want to develop, we can't establish how many possible units there are. But under the r three zone, the apartment building type does not have a limit on the number of units except to the extent that you have to provide parking and there's a height limit on the building and there are setbacks and lot coverage standards. So it it really depends on whether they're providing studio apartments or three or four bedroom apartments in terms of how many they can physically fit into a building.

It's it's more of a design exercise than a a numerical limit within our code. No. We have adopted a parking code that has standards for residential use consistent with recently passed legislation.

Councilor Diener, go ahead. Director Bond, the staff recommendation to the hearing examiner was neutral. Staff report found that the application met code, but at the same time there was opposition to the application. At what point or where do you draw the line in the sand when an application meets code and is otherwise supportable, but there's opposition? And how much opposition becomes noteworthy in tripping that recommendation into a neutral status versus one of support?

It

is not your legislative role. Sorry. That's alright. So quasi judicial versus legislative, those are your two distinct functions. And a legislative act has legislative immunity.

You're acting as a legislative body. Whereas quasi judicial, you're acting as a judge, and you're evaluating the property rights of an individual applicant, as you know. And so just to clarify that point, and as far as what the director said as it relates to the criteria utilized when the department determines if they're going to issue a supporting opinion versus a neutral one, the record should speak for itself as to that. Director Bond cannot add additional information about sort of the process by which the department came to that. It simply says department acknowledges substantial public opposition.

Fair enough. Thank you.

Director Bond, when states, or maybe this is for, Ms. Archer. When it states, substantial change, Is substantial change defined as let's say an applicant was not eligible to be zoned as R three previously and now there's been a change so that now they can be zoned as R three. Is that what substantial change means?

Can you point me to where you're seeing that phrase? Sorry. I just ran a word search and I can't remember Yeah.

Okay. So when we were looking at the

The changed condition criteria?

Yeah. The changed said it. So I'm trying to understand that, unpack that a little bit more for my understanding. When it talks about that criteria, does it mean that there was a substantial change in the sense of this substantial change now allows the applicant to be, eligible for zoning that they were not previously eligible for?

And for the rest of the council's, benefit, the analysis of the hearing examiner on that criteria is, set out at page 13 of the packet, page eight of the decision. Just so that we're all on the same page, the criteria referenced there, can you go back to the code please, is that the following general provisions apply to the review of site specific rezone applications. Subpart two, the proponents of the rezone have the burden of proof to demonstrate that conditions have changed since the original zoning. The hearing examiner comments, Washington appellate courts require that the proponents of a rezone must establish that conditions have substantially changed since the original showing and that the rezone must bear a substantial relationship to the public health, safety, morals, or welfare. If a rezone implements the comprehensive plan, a showing that a change of circumstances has occurred is not required.

The change circumstances requirement provides for stability in zoning designations that can be relied upon by property owners. The city's requirement for changed conditions is arguably more stringent than the judicial standard since the city's code doesn't offer comprehensive plan implementation as an alternative. A change in condition identified in the staff report is development of the 10 acre Forest Song apartment complex site just southwest of the project site at the southwest condition of the Sherman Hall Avenue Intersection. That site was rezoned r three in 1977, but is only currently being developed. So the proposal clearly implements comprehensive plan policies that encourage middle housing and a wide diversity of housing types.

As testified by director Bond, those policies were adopted in 2024 and thus constitute a change in circumstances. This change is reflected in several bills adopted by the state legislature starting with a 2021 amendment to the Growth Management Act to require cities to analyze and plan for future housing across a variety of income ranges and housing unit types. That is the analysis of the hearing examiner as to whether the proposal meets the substantially changed condition.

Is that typical?

Yes. But to this is what he's this is what the hearing examiner is saying. So it's and I see no legal infirmity with his analysis.

Okay. Is is that something that is, again, I apologize, I'm just trying to understand this. Is that something that is normally considered or looked at? Does a hearing examiner normally look at whether, somebody was previously, you know, they could have applied for r three and didn't, and now they're applying for it. Or, you know, like, does that is is that ever looked at?

Yes. This is a standard criteria upon which you evaluate a rezone, because you have adopted a zoning map, correct, consistent with the legislative findings of the body, and now you have an applicant seeking to modify as to one parcel the zoning designation you've given it. So it's typical for there to be a requirement that the applicant justify based on a change in conditions from when the zoning map was adopted that warrants a rezone, a site specific rezone for that parcel. So yes, this is an established criteria for rezone evaluation in Washington State law. The hearing examiner also notes that we don't have an exception for comprehensive plan compliance to the changed condition, and he notes that they meet that exception that is normally afforded.

Councilor Murphy.

I thought Song was rezoned in o eight, not '77.

I don't have the complete record of that case, but I know that there was a first phase of Forestong that was proposed in 2008 that was approved, and then that entitlement expired, and so they had to then reapply at a later date. And so I think what happened in 2008 may have been a subdivision application or some other, development permit that had been filed. But that was before I arrived at the city and again I don't have those records in front of me.

Questions for Mr. Bond?

One more,

sorry. So for middle housing capacity, I think you specifically mentioned 0% to 80% AMI. I'm trying to look for the page. I just remember reading that. And the city's goal of having more of that type of housing. Are townhomes considered that type of housing, I guess?

So according to the Department of Commerce guidance that we were provided as part of our comprehensive plan update, there are different income bands and then there are housing types that are considered to be typically affordable to those income bands. And so I going off of recollection, believe that townhomes were in the 100 to 120% AMI band. It's the only building type that is sub 80% affordability without like a multifamily tax exemption type subsidy is going to be an apartment building.

Okay. So

you're saying it must be apartment building?

Per the commerce guidance.

No. That's the same thing. It's helpful because that wasn't clear at all for me previously reading that.

Alright. Any last questions? Council will now begin deliberations because this is a quasi judicial proceeding pursued RCW forty two point thirty point one four zero two. City council will enter into a closed sessions for these deliberations.

I have one more question. I really do apologize, y'all. I just have one more question. So for I just wanted to ask a quick question about the number of units. Thank you. So the the the number of units in this the the townhomes as an r two, I would say. How many units was that? Because I I was there was, like, a lot of, if you can explain that to me versus because I know now they're saying 18 townhome units. And how many apartment units? I should have asked this.

I apologize. I just thought of this. I should have asked this to the applicant, but if I could have that number.

Yeah. I I'm not able to tell you that because the code in R 2 allows four units per lot, and then there's a minimum lot size for the R 2 zone, but you have to figure out how to arrange

that put I apologize. It was in the record. I just can't I I'll just look at the record of my own.

Okay.

And I think I found the citation. So it says the applicant testified that under the R 2 zone, he could build 75 townhome bedrooms compared to a 100 bedrooms for apartments in the R 3 zone. That's the reference to townhomes I see.

Okay. The now city council will now begin deliberations because this is a quasi judicial proceeding pursuant to RCW forty two thirty one four zero two. The city council will enter a closed session for these deliberations. The city council will return in ten minutes, unless the city council extends the deliberation period. This extension will be publicly announced. The city council may take action following the deliberation period. So we are now heading into closed session

for

ten minutes. Proud of you there. Good Janine. Are we live again? Yes, we are.

Okay. Council member Fender. Okay. The council has completed its deliberations on this closed record matter. Council members, are there is there a motion on this matter? Doctor. Diener?

I apologize for delay. I was looking for a motion but there's not one represented and I understand why. But I would make a motion affirming the hearing examiner decision.

Second. Motion by Councillor Diener and a second by Councillor Behrman Morrissey affirming hearing examiner's decision for the site specific rezone for 1601 And 1083 Hull Avenue and staff is requested to prepare a written findings and decisions consistent with the council's motion. At, any discussions at this point? Council member Diener.

I would like to note that I have read the staff report and recommendation. I've read the hearing examiner decision and the revised decision and the index to the record and the applicable code twenty point four two point zero three zero of Port Orchard Municipal Code. I do not find that the hearing examiner erred in their interpretation of code and I support the decision as recommended by the hearings as decided by the hearing examiner.

Council Member Fatton, go ahead.

I say nay on the criteria of the rezoning within that area of R2 going to R3. I think the density with apartments are huge around the corner and we do not, well I think that that neighborhood, that area should stay at R2.

Comments from the city council?

I believe that the hearing examiner misapplied POMC 20 0.420302 c and that the plan is consistent with the area characteristics.

Other comments? Okay. You'll be voting on the hearing exam or to for the site specific rezone for 1601 And 1083 Paul Avenue. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Nay. Nay.

It passes five to two. Alright. We are moving on to our normal council business at this time. Jump to that agenda. We are to our citizen comment period now. Anyone wishing to address the city the city council has three minutes and please identify identify yourself for the record.

Yeah. My name is Bob Showers, and I'd like to read a, email that I sent to the mayor and the council concerning the statement in Kitsap Sun. I just heard a statement concerning the events in Minneapolis put out by the mayor. My first question is why. Second question is, did the city council agree with this statement?

I would assume there was some type of vote to allow this since the mayor represents the council or does the mayor get to make comments without any criteria. I don't know why this was done, especially since the investigations are not complete, as the mayor or council already condemned the federal agents. The mayor stated, and I quote, the current actions surrounding the immigration enforcement are frightening to many in the community. I want to know I want you to know that I hear your concern and take it seriously. I don't understand why the immigration enforcement is frightening.

Are there that many around here breaking the law? It is so sad when the cities and states won't help the federal immigration officers get the bad people out of here. Washington State, and I guess now Port Orchard, has decided to release the criminals into the community instead of allowing ICE to come into the jails and get the criminals. What do you think is gonna happen when ICE and other federal agencies are going into the community? Again, it is sad.

I just wish the mayor and council could represent the whole community and not get involved in national issues. Another issue with this statement affects our police department. I feel sorry for them. With this statement is the mayor and council condoning people spitting and police officers' faces, destruction of taxpayer vehicles, doxing of officers and their families, and destruction of businesses, and so called peaceful protest. This is happening.

Get outside the local news and this state's news, you will see it. I wonder how the Port Orchard Police Department would handle someone pulling their car in front of their cruisers constantly blowing their whistles, horns, shouting obscenities at them and interfering with their work. Anyone can see this this shouldn't happen. The loss of life is a tragedy, but the tragedy also include lives lost by the hands of illegal immigrants. Are you concerned about them?

I could go on and on, but I can tell most have already made up their minds. Federal law is federal law, and Port Orchard should work with the federal agencies to provide a safe environment for all. The mayor and the council need to focus on problems in our city. If you Google the crime rate in Port Orchard, you'll see what I mean. Homelessness, abandoned cars, and trash are beginning to be the norm for Port Orchard. The police are a very important part of Port Orchard. And before the mayor or council go off and voice their opinions on issues they shouldn't be getting involved in, maybe they should ask how these statements affect our community. And I tried to ram that into three minutes.

Thank you

for comments.

I do appreciate the councilman that did reply to that. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. Anyone else wishing to address If the you're online, you can use the raise your hand feature and the clerk would bring you into the meeting. It's raised so I'm gonna close the first citizen comment period. We haven't published a consent agenda. Is there a motion to approve? Council Member Deener.

Mister mayor, I make a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented. Second.

Second.

Motion by Council Member Deener, second by Council Member Ternary to approve the consent agenda as presented. All in favor please say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Hearing none, the consent agenda has been approved. We have no presentations. We do have two business items. The first of which is adoption of an ordinance amending Port Orchard Municipal Code section fifteen thirty point zero two zero, fifteen thirty point zero seven zero, and fifteen thirty point one zero zero pertaining to illicit discharge and storm water system. Mister Ryan, I believe you're online. Okay.

No for the record that he stepped out.

For the record, Councilmember Warden has recused himself from this matter.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, Council. The city regulates stormwater flow under the NPDS permit to manage runoff, prevent flooding, and protect water quality. In 2022, Council adopted ordinance 140 three-twenty two, updating regulations on illicit discharges that safeguard public health and water resources. Since adoption, staff have identified technical amendments to the Chapter 15.3. These changes incorporate language from the state law for consistency. Add provisions requested by the Department of Ecology under the NPDS permit. These updates do not change the current practices. They simply align with code in existing operations and federal and state regulations.

These codes changes are minor. You'll see the word municipal and just referencing stormwater quite a bit in the amendments. But other than that, it's fairly straightforward. Thank you.

Councilmember Morrissey.

Yes, mister mister mayor. I move to adopt an ordinance amending sections 15 dot 30 dot zero two zero, 15 dot 30 dot zero seven zero, and 15 dot 30 dot 100 of the Port Orchard Municipal Code pertaining to the regulation of illicit discharges to the storm water system.

Second.

By council member Morrissey, a second by council member Fenton. Any questions for mister Ryan on this matter? You'll be voting on the changes amending Port Orchard Municipal Code related to illicit discharge and storm water system. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Hearing none, this passes unanimously. I'm gonna pitch mister Warden and bring him back. Aye.

And may I interject that the next business item is also related to storm water. It's just, surplusing equipment. So I wasn't sure if he wanted to recuse himself for this item as well or or if it doesn't apply. Yes.

It's storm water equipment.

It's it's just Equipment. It's a surplus. Equipment.

It's a

new equipment. Okay.

Well, I'm

gonna say

it. It's fine.

Alright. So The next item is adoption of a resolution declaring certain personal property as surplus and authorizing the disposal thereof. Miss Wallace, this is you.

Yes. Good evening, mayor, council. Assets of the city that are no longer usable are no longer of value to the city, or are surplus to the city's needs may be removed from the city's ownership, sold, or in any other way disposed with a declaration of surplus by the city council. Staff is asking that the council to surplus various water quality monitoring equipment as depicted in the exhibit a attached to the packet provided before you this evening, which is attached to the resolution and belonging to the storm water utility fund. The finance department has estimated the current value of all the personal property listed to be a $4,145.

While items were acquired for public utility purposes, the value of the property is less than $50,000. Therefore, a public hearing is not required pursuant to RCW thirty five point nine four point zero four zero subsection two. Although the city's internal asset value of the items have been determined to be of, low value, any monies of from those sales of surplus property will be, deposited into the funds which own them. When the disposal is to the general public through direct sale, sealed bid or auction, final determination of value shall be, to the highest responsible bid or offer. The city may transfer a surplus asset to another public agency upon written request and a determination that is in the public and a determination that is in the best of the public interest.

Staff will dispose the items in a manner that reflects the best interest of the city. Therefore, staff recommends adoption of a resolution declaring personal property as surplus and allowing for the disposition

thereof. May

I make a motion to, adopt a resolution declaring personal property as described as surplus and authorizing its disposition?

Second. Motion by councilor Diener and that was council member Morrissey for the second. Okay. Any questions of miss Wallace? This is just equipment we don't need any longer and we're getting surplus for surplusing it and get rid of it. So alright. You'll be voting to on a resolution declaring certain property surplus and authorizing for the disposal of it. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, the resolution passes unanimously. We've got a couple of discussion items. The first of which is the wonderful training course that you get to pick this evening and miss Lund is here to walk you through your choices.

As you know, the city is insured for liability coverage through the RMSA organization and they do require one annual training of all elected officials. Historically, the city council has chosen one topic, which you can do online through a webinar format. And if you all choose the same topic, it makes it really easy on HR.

I think one of the alternative methods is if you're attending the annual conference and and attend a course at one of the conferences then you just need to let HR know what class you attended and that will satisfy the requirement. But if you're not attending the annual conference you'll need to likely select one of these courses. As she indicated, if everybody that chooses that option picks the same course, it's a little easier to administer. And the clerk would like to know actually too if you're intending to go to the conference.

Conference.

Okay so we've got Scott you're gonna attend Spokane this year.

Oh no, thought we were gonna talk to Spokane in the past.

Okay, so I've got one, two for sure going to the conference.

Oh yeah. No, I emailed her already.

Okay, so we've got four

of you.

I'm also doing the essentials, Director Lund, FYI because that counts, The essentials? So I'm just noting that for you that I'm I'm I'll be doing the essentials.

Yes. The electric. Sounds like you're already taken care of. Council member Diener, council member Rosa Pepe, and council member Terneri. It sounds like you three. You guys

Go for it, Scott.

So, you know, we've I think some of us have taken, the harassment classes and workplace bullying. The only new one, for me anyways, in in over the years is the guide to eliminating employment claim risk. Works for me.

Good

job. Okay. You guys made it easy.

Miss Lund, I'd I'd take that just as well even though I'm

He's getting bonus training. That way that way we're tracking and it gives us a tracking mechanism. With the exception that council member Dedman has already satisfied her training requirement.

Above and

beyond. Think this is the separate one. This is like the six parter. Right? I haven't done my first part yet.

All I know is it needs to be

placed in 2026.

It's gonna happen next month.

So we'll

put you on the

webinar list

and you'll

know when you Yeah.

I'll do that for sure. As soon

as you've completed the class, let her know what what it was and and

I would like to point out I already did that local planning course. Just saying.

Alright. So we're two week. Street dates. Has everybody got their calendar with them? Pull our calendars out. We're gonna look at I've got some dates to propose.

I have

to bring my calendar.

You're supposed to bring your calendar. Remember we talked about this last meeting. I got two April dates, a May date that's not ideal and I hope we don't have to go to June. Starting with April 3. Could everybody do April 3?

I have a doctor appointment that day. I'll my brother calendar.

Okay. Yeah. April 17?

Good for me.

Oh, you wanna do it on a Friday?

That's direction I got from you guys.

I think so.

That works for

Seventeenth. That works. Seventeenth is Oh my goodness. Really?

Wow. That was easy. Yeah. That's been the third. The third's Easter weekend. Okay. That's good Friday.

Seventeenth it is. And my goodness, I can't believe this is happening. Well, it hasn't happened yet. We'll see.

Yeah. Wait till I go home.

It's the April 17.

April 17. Alright. Next question for you. For the last probably six years, the city council has given the direction that they don't want any staff other than a facilitator. Prior to the last six years, the directors each gave a ten to fifteen minute presentation on their priorities, what they feel they're I guess hopeful for or what their needs are is a better way to put that.

Would you like to hear from the directors directly or would you prefer I gather that information from the directors and bring it to the council? That's been the direction over the last few years, but prior to that, it was done differently.

I'm comfortable with them just giving you the information.

Plan two. I'd like to suggest we pepper that information through February and March's study sessions so that we're not surprised by any of that walking into a priority setting session and we've had time to deliberate on the things that they're asking for us. I think trying to be strategic so that we can have outcomes from that day would be my vote.

And I'd like to add just I think it would be useful if we could get everybody's ideas shared earlier that it may realign some of our priorities.

Think that's what I'm trying to get at.

Is that what you're trying to get

If we hear it

early, right, and we pepper it in in study sessions long before we get to that date, then we've had time to marinate on it and

Yeah.

It won't be realistic next week. It's packed. But but I can try to gather that from all of you guys and have it to you. You know, sometime before the before the March would be the goal. I would gather information from staff.

I've already been kind of picking up ideas that you guys have tossed around already and putting them on. Yeah, why don't you guys, your priorities if you could, because we can't have a chain meeting. If you could send them to me and I'll work the same way with the staff, try to compile a list that I get out to you guys by the March. Is that a workable plan? And then we come into the couple of weeks later, and almost three weeks later then you got three weeks to noodle on the ideas that have been thrown at you.

So kind of the format I've seen with our new public information person is starting about the first of the month. I will have that person come to that meeting to be the scribe for us and put stuff up on the screen. And then we I think it's always important is a reminder and it's very important for Councilmember Dedmon. She doesn't know a lot of the commitments that we already have. And so as we set our priorities too to be a brief portion of the meeting at the beginning is these are all the things that we've already got in the works.

Then there's the short term and then I'd like some long term visioning from you guys too because well it's the least next couple of budgets are going to be short term but there's opportunity for I mean we're talking about it at transportation, some of these long range ideas and goals out there and so I think we need to be looking what are those next big initiatives out there and so be thinking about that. All right. That was too easy. Council committee reports. Economic development tourism, you just met earlier this week.

We did. I'll take it on because the first order of business at that committee meeting was electing a chair, and that'll be me. So I'll be given this report from here on out. I will always ask the ladies to help me along the way. We received a report from KEDA.

They went over their operations results from q four. We had an update on feedback from essentially the downtown revitalization revitalization grant program. Director Bond shared that they haven't had a lot of feedback, so we are still asking all kinds of folks. So if you know anyone who is a property owner or business owner downtown, please have them get in touch with DCD and get back to them on how we can deploy the dollars we set aside for revitalization downtown. Director Bond went over a couple of pre app meetings.

Nothing huge of note. I think the coolest thing I heard that could be is maybe changing and removing the coffee stand up on one of the gas stations up on Bethel and putting a drive through oil change. That was an interesting topic. And then the mayor gave us an update on changes to our downtown beautification as well as a brief update on kinda where we're at, and I'm sure he's gonna talk about the $3,000,000 that got allocated from the federal dollars. And that was the high level details of our meeting. Thank you. Okay.

Utilities, did you meet this evening or not?

No, we did not meet tonight. Our meeting was canceled. We did have a SAC meeting.

Would

you like to give a report? I was going to, we had our first SAC meeting. Much like economic development, we did elect a chair, so I'll be giving that report from now on for utilities in SAC. SAC was an informational meeting with a tour. We went over past projects, equipment projects from 2025 and forecast for 2026.

Just to bring that up, we are still waiting for word from Department of Ecology on the permit for the facility, but that's something that a lot of the cities are working through. No red flags there at this point. Our next SAC meeting is June 16 at 03:30, and it was volunteered to have it at the Red Lumsden Building to show it off, so that's gonna be pretty cool. So that's my report.

All right, so we're Finance Committee meeting's next week. Transportation met this evening. We did. Eric, you're the chair.

I I am. I am. We met to discuss Tremont. We're trying to narrow down options to bring forth this coming Tuesday. And lot to lot to con lot to consider.

Lot of lot of pieces that have to work together between the amount of real estate needed, wash dot requirements, communities previous would you say that? Previous input with the bike path, bike bike lanes. There's a lot to go into it. So we worked really hard. Two meetings in a row actually we've had already to try and narrow it down for the best two options to bring forth for next next week.

Bike paths, sidewalks, multi use paths, we basically have gone over every option possible and that's probably why our meeting is going be so full next week is going over that. Yes,

Jay? I'm sorry, I may have misheard it. What road did you say again? Tremont. Tremont. Okay. Just that area. I'm sorry. That's why I was going. Okay.

That's North both side, south side.

No, got it. I was just Yeah. Making sure

Dean, Council Mudair has really good suggestions. Mark does. I do. I mean, everybody has a bunch of ideas. We just gotta narrow it down. So that's really, that's our only topic so far.

K. It looks like land use meets Next week. Next week. And back I got to transportation too, the staff shared too the county's phased plan for Lund from Bethel, on Bethel towards Jackson, that segment where there's four different projects the county has planned over the next two of them in 2026, one in '27 and one in '28. So that was interesting information too. So if you're interested in what those look like, pop on and look at the meeting minutes.

Are are we in coordination with the different phases of Bethel?

It'll actually the way we're it's what two of their phases will happen before we get to Bethel phase one.

Good. But I'm imagining we're gonna siphon off traffic in different directions because of that. I wanna make sure that You'll part of our thought

likely get three of those phases which are all the roundabouts and then there's one segment that is like a turning it into somewhat like Tremont where it's got a median down the center of it, kind of the last segment. Let's see here. Coffee with counsel, is there anything to report from that?

I've been overwhelmed this weekend. I don't have anything to I'll send out an email, but I believe Scott has

Here's what I would propose is that each person that attends emails out their own report because I think then Eric isn't having to try and herd cats with getting other people. We also

have our own interpretation of what we heard and saw and feel.

Do you want me to not put it on this list to call on you guys here then because you're gonna send it to the clerk and then she's gonna disseminate it to you guys? That's way cheaper.

I'm okay. Do a report? I didn't even know that. Yeah. Well yeah.

If there are certain if there are certain hot topics that come up, I would I'll share them. You know?

Yes. Maybe in good of the order versus in calling it out here.

I think that just makes it easier for reporting. No. I think

that I concur that individually we send it to Brandi. Brandi can send it to the council. And if anybody has a hot topic, that would be good to bring it up good of the order. Agree with that, Eric. Okay. So you caught

that to take that off my list. Perfect.

A question on Coffee with Counsel. How I mean, know you guys will say, oh, talk to the department head or or you guys can answer the questions from the constituents, but how does every question get answered?

I think that's what your report should indicate is resolution of if any.

Oh because a lot of times I just see oh this was the topic, this is what they want. So there's gonna be a resolution Possibly. With the

Yeah. I mean, it doesn't have to be a paragraph, right? No. But just that, you know, maybe the answer is I advise so and

so to talk to Dennis. Example, there was a really tight street in McCormick Woods. Homeowner has concerns with it because of the parking and they're not getting any parking enforcement on that street. Mhmm. It's almost a one way street, Amherst. So I took their concerns. I went to director Bond, emailed him with it, and he gave me a really nice email reply back that I can give to that homeowner. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. So I kinda feel like if I'm going to put myself out there to get the questions, I'm gonna deliver them.

Mhmm. Get them and make sure that they Yeah. Get Yes. Okay. Good.

Yep. I

I got one more

question on coffee with counsel. Charlie, this is for you. We had a you know, when this was started, we had we had a limit of three council members, and part of that is so that we don't have a quorum because we're not affecting business. But I know that we can have more council members there as long as we're not conducting city business. I mean, in some cases, some people can make more people can make coffee with council than other times.

Is this something that would freak out? We need to know ahead I of understand that. But at our last meeting before we go into it, there was three there this time. I could've could've gone, but I didn't because we've kinda had the limit to three. And I'm just trying to find out, are we gonna run into any issue, or is it just better to go just three? It works out pretty well that way, so I'm just asking.

Yeah. So I think that the the most risk conscientious approach is to only hold non meetings with a smaller than quorum. As we've talked about with OPMA violations, it's not just whether or not one's actually occurring, but it's the appearance of one. So if there's four of you gathered, even if you've committed not to talk, there's a risk associated with someone perceiving that to be an OPMA violation. Violation.

As long as you are physically in the same space and you are passively receiving information from the public, from a training, if you're not discussing amongst yourselves in any way, then there's no OPMA violation even if a quorum are present because there's no business being done. Right. But, again, someone just passively seeing more than three could infer an OPMA case could create a lawsuit which itself has turmoil and consequences for the city even though it's meritless.

I'm comfortable with that cause it would happen so seldom. But I just wanna think that when we commit to these town halls, I would say there's probably a pretty good chance that we're gonna have a a quorum.

Yeah. And we'll notice

it. And we'll notice it. Hopefully. Okay. Do. Okay. Yep. Thank you.

Alright. On to the mayor's report. So I know you think it's getting late, but 1976, fifty years ago, numerous items were on the agenda that evening and the meeting lasted until 10:15. We now have code that requires a motion to be made at 09:30. The most notable of the items on that agenda was a request by Hunt Mobile Homes.

I don't know if you remember that down in Ghorst many years ago. And they asked the city council to consider changing its code to allow mobile homes on city lots. Prior to that code being changed, they were only allowed in mobile home parks. And seventy five years ago, in 1951, the city took action to call the 1940 sewer bonds council authorized also authorized $15.80 to purchase books for the library. So the and one hundred years ago in 1926, the Parks Committee set a date for the community cleanup for the Old Fairgrounds property.

Now it is that is known as Givens Park. And they also appointed Jay Nurenberger as the live in live on property caretaker in that evening. So, as I mentioned, I believe at the last meeting, May 16 is gonna be our community cleanup day. I've been sharing that date with others. I know it's the same day as Bremerton's Armed Forces Day Parade, but that's later in the day and hopefully And Viking Fest.

And Viking Fest too. Oh, great. So we'll be early in the morning, only a few hours, so hopefully people can still join us. Let's see here on January 30, I spoke at and was able to participate in Housing Kitsap's key ceremony over at the Riverstone development and that's the housing development there by the Lund Bridge and that's the program where these 10 families came together and built each other's homes with professional help And it's just such a cool thing to see. These folks have built relationships and it built a community and come together.

I really enjoy going to those ceremonies as they get their keys. John, you saw the email that the federal budget was passed and our $3,500,000 for Bay Street Reconstruction was included in it. We are still reaching out to WSDOT local programs to attain our formal funding letter which will have hopefully the terms and eligible expenditures for that. So that's really kind of the next step we're at. I'm feeling very good about this funding.

So I know staff has a meeting scheduled on Tuesday with finance and public works to work through some details on that. So more to report on that later. And also the beautification money. I've been meeting with the Merchants Association. And, Brandy, could you bring up those those renderings at this time?

We've been talking about different options, and I'll show you two different versions. The the the merchants are advocating for and you need to scroll down a little bit. So where we have the existing picnic tables on the pads, these would be made out of sequoia, milled Sequoia and then the framework and then it would be bolted down. And Brandi, if so that so do we believe and we're going to go down and confirm measurements that we can get two of those picnic tables per pad and then we would put one on the center of the observation deck and then go to the next slide Brandi. And those would be the benches.

Now that particular lumber is a piece of wood is recycled and it has a lot more character. It's cracked and things. The proposal is actually for the milled sequoia. They just didn't have a picture of the milled sequoia but it would be the same dimension just cleaner. Eight

foot long?

Believe it's

Eight by 12 by eight.

Yeah, 12 by 12 by eight as a bench. And we'd have three of those on the perimeter. Brandy, you go to the next slide.

And those are treated then?

They're varnished and they would need to be sanded as needed to take out graffiti and then varnished. It's recommended twice a year. It's a marine Yeah,

it's a boat finish.

Yeah, exactly. It's a marine product. Pretty cool looking. Yeah. They're

My suggestion is to put little brackets on it so no skateboarders.

Skateboarders, yeah. That's pretty easy to do. Yeah, we've got those down at Editor Park. Initial proposal was these benches which these are the picnic tables that we would replace down at Editor Park and it's consistent with the things we have there. The merchants really didn't they felt these were kind of cold in comparison to the wood. Public Works is a little concerned about the wood but it'll just have a little more maintenance to it.

It's gonna be a lot of carving. We can just Yeah.

And it'll just need to get sand. It is great big thick lumber so it might need some wood putty. I'm just sharing with you what's being asked.

Do you want any feedback? Certainly. Okay. Could you go back to the previous bench? I really like to bench. However, as folks age out, not having a backrest sitting there sometimes can be difficult for some. So that's my only feedback.

Okay. And we do have benches down the waterfront though that do have benches.

I know that. Along the whole pathway we do. It was just that if we're putting it in this one site, it might be something to think about. That's all.

Is that going on the observation, those ones?

These would be the benches, the three benches that go on the perimeter around the circle there on the observation deck and then a picnic table in the center of it. And then it's proposed that two picnic tables per pad, we just got to go down and verify that that all fits in there. And since these are custom made, if they need to be a foot shorter or a little narrower they could be. This is the proposal. This is pretty much a standard size and they're being custom made so they could be made a different size if they have to be that Is

that ADA compliant? I don't know that it doesn't look like it.

Well you could pull up to the end of it.

Chair right there on the end of it, wheelchair.

I like the look and feel. It's gonna match our community event center when it comes to fruition. So I think I like this.

Beautiful. Okay.

Appreciate the fact. I like

it too. I'm concerned about maintenance.

Let's go back to the garbage cans there, Brandy. One more slide. So we're also being asked to update some of our garbage cans, particularly the ones on the waterfront aren't very attractive.

Unless you like 55 gallon drums. Yeah.

Well, not those. Those are the ports. I'm referring to the ones that are aggregate. And then we've got some other ones mid block downtown. So I would love to be able to replicate ones that have garbage and recycling in them.

They're they were they've been discontinued for one. And if they hadn't been discontinued, they were over $4,000 apiece eight years ago. These are $2,000 apiece, so this is kinda what we can go into what we can afford. They've got the weather protection over the top of them so they don't fill up with rain. And so probably eight or 10 of these garbage cans is about what we can afford with these dollars. Mr. Canary? I want to move

back because I was processing. I am concerned about the maintenance on those benches and the picnic tables as well. They're very nice looking. But is there a way or possibility we can look at a different type of coating like a urethane coating or something that doesn't take two times a year maintenance and update that can maybe seal off those cracks and that would a little bit more to get a little more life out of them before they need that maintenance.

Just Okay.

Just saying. I'm worried Durability. About

I would say whatever we work with, the most durable

Yeah. Whatever

It it is big big pieces of lumber and they're recommending a marine finish on it.

Yeah. I'm just thinking about people who are gonna start carving away.

It's gonna happen. You're right. And fortunately it can be sanded. Public works is advocating for the steel. I'm just sharing that And Councilmember Morrissey's correct. This is gonna be more consistent with the look and feel of the plaza and the community center. So we've got the garbage cans. Adam Smith has already returned the contract for the mural, but Dennis and I need to go meet with the Fort Of Bremerton. That's their property and we're gonna do that. Gary Anderson said it's not a problem, but he's one of three and so going end of the month going to Port Of Bremerton meeting to get their formal permission to put that mural up.

Public Works is working on getting the other artist under contract. We've got a there at the end of the ferry dock we've got that way finding pillar that has the map in it. The map is outdated. We're looking to change out the map and it's probably going to be a map. That current map has the streets and has businesses on it.

I think we're just going go with something with the streets and possibly a QR code and then you would walk up with your phone and be able to find businesses in that manner. So Josh Johnson is working on that project. We're also working on hopefully he mentioned this in his presentation that scavenger hunt with the little sea creatures that will be made out of cut steel. The example of that is the blue herons that are down at the end of Blackjack Creek by so a whole about a dozen of these would be scattered throughout the waterfront. And so he's working to get the artwork donated.

Once I have that artwork then we'll look to somebody who's got a I think it's called a CNC machine and they cut that steel out and then Public Works would put those in place. They're asking for a bike rack down by the Marina Pump station. Probably need one down there, we don't have one. Got one by the library. Public Works is gonna pressure wash all the sidewalks before May 16 which is the mosquito fleet days event.

There's a request by Sarah Butler for they're gonna do a paint party. She got a painting contractor that will paint the marquee for us and we will buy the paint for that. She'd like to change the color of it from green to blue. I don't get to pick colors at home so I told her to give me an example of that color and I would bring it back to you guys. So she's working on that.

Probably the next big one is so is to do when Munster did the facade improvements to Mairi's and we've got the black insets on the windows and the doors to do some historic photos on banner type material and fill those openings with historic photos.

He's cool with that.

Yeah. And that yes. He is. At least his his agent says he is. And so that came from the merchants. And then it was a mixed bag from the merchants wanting either flags on our poles downtown and hanging baskets. And I know council member Fenton's been advocating for a few years for the hanging baskets. I think where we're at, we're going to put like every other poll. And so that was kind of the compromise that came out of the Merchants Association Board meeting. And so Josh Johnson is working on the design for the flag.

There were some examples of that in the presentation that he did. I think one side of it says anchored in community and as the Port Orchard established and I'm not certain what the other side is going to have. So I'll bring those examples back when we get farther along. But we've made a lot of progress and more to come. Doctor. Loe?

Just I know this has come up before, but has any thought I know thought has been given, but has any requests come from the merchants regarding utility boxes? We've talked about wraps on those We

have one down there that we're going to at least get painted. I think there's only one well excuse me there's one on Bay Street too, that's The States. That makes a difference. We have one that's got a little the graffiti has been covered but it needs to be repainted. So just to blend in with all because in the summertime the plants, it's buried in the landscaping down there, it's by the marina.

I've got

a question.

What about a bike rack over by the farmer's market? And, you know, because there's a lot of activity that goes down there. And I because I remember someone was asking, oh, a bike rack down that in that area.

That could be an ask for the port. That's remember that property down there over there is theirs. But yeah. But I can bring that up to Gary Anderson.

Yeah. We make sure that they they put a bike rack that has two attachment points, two locking points? That's kinda the standard. It might even be in our code that we have that. So versus the old, you know, bike racks that look like that.

Oh, you don't we don't that's that's that's much the standard out out there.

It's not what the recommended standard is by the biking industry. They want two attachment points for locking so that they can secure front wheels, back wheels, frame, all that. Might be in our code too.

Okay. All right. I think that's it. I have

one question about since we're talking about downtown. Along the waterfront, the fencing is pretty ragged in spots. And I think you had mentioned that they were going to maybe patch some of the fencing along the boardwalk and the railing?

I don't know of any proposal. Okay.

There's some pretty big gaps in the bottom sides. It was, I think, shown in my pictures that it was sent to the port.

Okay.

It'd be could string fresh fencing along there and some of the railings are kind of bowed and it just needs some love.

Department heads. Ms. Lund, do you have anything to share?

Mr. Crocker.

Yeah.

So two announcements. First, I was asked to look into the amount of time that our staff spends reviewing cabaret licenses. And so between the city clerk's office, the permit center, building department, the planners, it's about an hour and twenty five minutes of review and routing of that information and compiling it. We Per? Don't have Per license, and it doesn't matter whether it's a renewal or a new license.

And our typical billing rate for in our fee resolution is $75 an hour. So at an hour and twenty five minutes that's $106 would be the the corresponding fee if we just use that $75 an hour rate. I think I don't recall what the fee is set, but I think it's pretty close to that. The second announcement, the unfortunately, you have another rezone proposal. We've gotten we had two of them filed last year and the second one is gonna be coming forward probably at the March.

And so it just be aware of ex parte communications. The property is on Sydney Road Southwest there at near the the underpass under Highway 16 and is the triangular shaped piece of property that has had a excavator parked up there for some time. And so that one went to the hearing examiner very recently, and we should have a decision to forward to the council in the near future. And hopefully, that'll be the last of them for a while. I'm not aware of any others in the pipeline.

And that's the triangular piece that fronts the freeway. Correct?

That is correct.

Miss Archer?

Nothing to report this evening. Thank you. Deputy chief.

Nothing to report. It's Wallace.

Nothing to report either.

Alright. We are to our second citizen comment period. Is anybody

Yeah. My name is Bob Showers. Well, I'd just like to say I do love Port Orchard, and I've been here quite a while. And over the years, I've seen a lot of different setups here for the council and and the mayors. But lately, I'm thinking that maybe the council and the mayor need to look a little bit work a little bit more closer together on things, especially when I started looking at some of the things and asking people, well, why does this happen and why does this happen?

And some people really can't tell me and other people can, but they are not for sure. So I would like to make a suggestion. I would like to make the suggestion that, I think there's a a mayor councilman handbook. And in that handbook, it says, it kinda talks about finding your place in city hall. And appendix one, there's, there's different forms of municipal government.

There's the mayor council form. There's a council manager mayor form, and there's a commission form of government. And I realize some of that gets dictated to you by, maybe population or something like that. But I'd like for you to pay special attention to appendix one, and it talks about authority. And it says it's an overview of statues defining and limiting the authority of the mayor.

And I'm thinking that you guys, the council and the mayor, need to take a look at what you're doing and maybe be a little bit more give and take on issues that you're having for the community. Because I see a lot of things that are being more or less decided on, and I talk to the community every day. I mean, it's just like those tables that you're talking about right there. Those would be real nice for the community if you can pick up the homeless off of them because I can I can drive through Port Orchard and see them laying on doorsteps and on benches and anywhere else, and nobody's doing anything about it? I'm not saying they're trying to do something about it, but it just doesn't look like things are being done.

So maybe you ought to take a look at the form of the municipal government that you have right now and maybe decide to go another way. Thank you.

Thank you. You. Thank you.

Online, Brandy. I see a hand raised. Okay. And if you could when the clerk brings you into the meeting, if you could identify yourself for the record, and you have three minutes to address the council.

Hello. This is Athena Altschwam. I have a question for the counsel that may be best addressed through the attorney. I just wanted to understand when it comes to a judicial hearing, if there is typically a second period of comment that is available after the applicant or developer person who, you know, would have fit Noel Larson's shoes has their second opportunity to speak. And once you answer that, I do have another question.

Okay. Well, this is citizen comment period, but if you've got a question, I would recommend reaching out to the city clerk and writing your question to the city clerk and the appropriate staff member would then be able to get back to you on without question.

Okay. And then my follow-up question. So if you could advise me if I need to be discussing with the city clerk or a different individual is what method do we have the ability to find out what and how the criteria was met given a previous proceeding. So I would just like to have more information about that beyond what was provided through the hearing examiner report. Certainly. Because I found considerable disagreement.

Okay. And city clerk would also be the most appropriate then she can route it to the appropriate, whether it be legal counsel or the development director.

Okay. Well, thank you all for your time. Go Hawks. And I appreciate that you guys I noticed you guys went over the ten minutes. So I can tell that you gave a lot of attention to the concerns that we had. So thank you for that. I do appreciate it.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Else wishing to address the council? You can raise your hand. Seeing no one, so I will close the second citizen comment period. We are too good at the order. Anything too good of the order? Have Councilman Warden, go ahead.

Kind some questions I have actually. Okay. If I wanna bring up, like, an ordinance to change an ordinance And I wanna discuss my council members before I bring it forth so we're encouraged to talk to four people. Not four. Apologize. We're encouraged to talk we're we're we're encouraged to get the numbers. Mhmm. That would be four. I can't do that. I can only talk to two. What how how do we because I want some I have some real conversations that I wanna have.

So so what realm is is the is it is it a land use matter?

There is a land use matter. There's a traffic matter. There's yeah.

So I would go to Transportation and

go to

land Go to the committee chair and say, hey. I've got this concern. Would your committee consider you know, and then when the staff talks, hey, future agenda items for that committee to discuss. Because staff's probably not gonna be ready that that evening. Another way you could bring that is you could bring it to myself. Sure. And I can get it to the right committee or and then brief staff. And so maybe they're prepared to talk to it. We can probably move a little faster that way.

That route. I like that route. Have you heard any back yet? Anything on the price of that Kraken?

We have a presentation next week from Rice Fergus Miller. The presentation is about

philanthropic

giving and the signage and the meeting rooms and stuff, but I've told them they need to be able to talk to us about the Kraken. So I've made them aware whether or not their has sub consultant has gotten that bodywork. But I've made them aware that the council will be disappointed if we don't have some a rendering, some more information that that is the hot button.

And one last one is the next week at our work study, I know we're full, I don't know what's on it, is the we're calling town halls. Mhmm. Who is going to example, if we have one at McCormick is is Brandy, Ms. Wallace, is she gonna reach out and schedule that or is that something we're gonna discuss at that? Only reason why I ask is because We should set it up. I agree. It's pretty small detail of it, but a big one. And then we can discuss details but I didn't know if that's on the agenda and if it's not. Brandi, what

we do Wednesday morning after we meet here is we talk about the agendas for future meetings. Perfect. And so Okay. Brandi but Brandi can pull it up. What because I know it's what do we have on the agenda for the work study next week? She's she's doing that. Can I just add on

to that topic? I won't go to my staff, but that's a similar topic. I did notice in the packet that we have all three dates for the town hall scheduled, and they're all on Thursdays. And I don't know if maybe I said it at the last meeting, but I I I if I didn't, I would like to reiterate part of the thought process behind the non town halls that we were having before we came to town halls was that these are places that people can't make it to a Tuesday night or a Saturday. So the same thing would be true on a Thursday. So I I I don't know if it's if we could look at possibly looking at a Wednesday, a Friday, a Monday for the other dates throughout the year.

Okay. I I thought it was purposeful that you guys picked Thursdays, and that's how we tumbled to those. But we can revisit those dates, obviously.

I mean, they're cool for me, probably most of us, but that's his one day off ES.

I'm not even saying that. I'm gonna just say, like, we're thinking about the people and who would be able to interact with us. We're trying to make it at different

Oh. Oh.

Oh. Different days of the week because if somebody's always the same,

know I'm following you. You can revisit the dates. I I wasn't Just a thought. I wasn't married to any of them. I I we just walked through the calendar and that's the way it worked. Did you do you have it there, Brandy? You didn't have to put it on your screen. I just you could've just read it. What's I know Rice Frigas Miller. This is the first presentation.

Yes. And then there is a discussion regarding tree canopy by Director Bond. And then Tremont two and three recommendation recommended alternatives by Director Ryan and then the town hall format.

Okay. So town hall is on there. So we'll revisit the dates and then settle on locations and then those basics and then and then we can at future meeting, hammer start hammering out the details. Okay?

April 3 is coming soon though.

It is coming soon. And and and and I just I I think if we wanted to have a I think something downtown might not be as attended as well as I know I think the McCormick one because of all the development. Maybe we start with one there's a practice run that's, you know, not as intense, but so your guys' call. We'll do whichever location you guys yeah. So just wanna I just wanna do it right.

I think we'd be good at the gathering.

Our first So alright. I see you got a list.

I do. Thank you. So may as well right here. One, wanna take a moment to acknowledge mister Showers. Thank you for coming. There are just a couple of things that that we don't always get to say, especially since it's not a back and forth for for his comments. But the mayor is his own form of government here, so certain things he can do without our approval. Just know that. I do believe that we all are attempting to work on our relationships with each other and with the mayor. I did have the town halls was on my list.

And then I just wanna reiterate my call for anybody who who knows somebody who is a business owner or property owner downtown. We as a council set aside $100,000 for this grant revitalization program.

75. I

thought we did a 100,000. Yeah. Did a 100 for each. We put 100 in the bucket for the stuff that the city could do and then 100 into this bucket as well. And so I just wanna make sure that we are getting the best bang for our buck. We're trying to do what we can because our tools in our tool belt are limited when it comes to how we can encourage this type of behavior. And I believe we've learned that there's little or no stick, so we've got to use as much carrot as possible. So we wanna hear from those who like the taste of carrots, what kind of carrot you like served. So we'd we'd we'd love to know. Thank you.

I just don't like my carrots cooked. Councilmember, good to know.

So first of all I won't be I'll see if I can attend the next meeting. I'll be out of the country so it might be a little difficult but I'm gonna try. The other thing is, I I think maybe the mayor knows, but given center is is is going to be put up for sale. Did not know. Okay.

I think the council is or sorry, the commissioners are are making the are concerned about the maintenance costs and would like to get rid of that building. I would like us to be a part of the discussion in a sense that not that we necessarily want to acquire it because I think maybe perhaps a tear down, I don't know. But if we would like to see the county covenant as to future uses that we would find complimentary to our area, to the campus versus what's allowed in the zone because some of those could be a little bit more than than the neighborhood might be appreciative of. So I I think it would be worthwhile talking to the county administrator and seeing if we can covenant according to a range of uses that we might

think find. It would be interesting to see what they put it on the market for because When we looked at it years ago, we thought it was a teardown.

It was a teardown.

Yeah. So I don't know.

Yeah, there's a lot of money that's gonna have to go into it to make it functional as it once was.

Council member Diener, I got a question. I I heard what was that coffee with the council? Someone who works there. The county put brand new basketball courts in there, but they're closed down. Do you know anything about that?

I do not.

She was surprised that they're locked doors, they were the county a couple years The

preschool has used it during rainy days. So I've

seen it.

I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Monastery. Yeah. Monastery would use that on a rainy day for the kids to play in.

But it's not generally

It's not open for the The public or

whole building isn't generally open to the public. You have to usually get permission somebody has to ring you in to get in. I think that's going to mean that we're gonna have to think about the senior center.

Mhmm.

Because they house a senior center, and the senior center is gonna need to go somewhere. Yeah. We have to worry. We have to think about our seniors.

Monissaries. It's

also the biggest area for the county's training too.

So Yep. Yep. Alright. Anything else for the good of the art? Councilor Rooseberry.

Just two items. One, I attended the, South Kitsap Helpline Gala last Saturday. It was well attended. If you haven't been up to the new facility, I know Heidi has been and, I know the mayor has been, please do. It's a really unique facility compared to what they had before. Also, I put a card by your table for the South Kitsap Public Education Foundation event on April 25. If you get a chance to go, it benefits the school district and an endowment fund. And also, I'll ask Heidi to give me the date again of the crab feed because I keep forgetting that one. March 21. Okay.

March 21.

Okay. Thank you.

Yes. Thanks for

our Port Orchard Rotary.

Yep. Since you brought that up, I spoke this morning at the Port Orchard Rotary Club and talked about the numerous projects we've got going on and initiatives at the city. So it's, very well received there. I saw a couple of council members there too. So alright. With that, I think council's heading into an executive session. Pursuant to?

Yep. Pursuant to RCW forty two thirty one ten subpart one subpart I for approximately ten minutes.

Sure.

With no action to follow.

Let me unplug myself.