16 Water Resources Committee - Regular Meeting

Will the Water and Infrastructure Committee meeting of 12/17/2025 please come and order? It is 09:06 a. M. May I ask all participants one used not not other you company's leadership we team. Made.

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I'm home alone in my workspace, except I have my little three month old kitty with me. Her name is Jill Nolissen Lee.

Nolissen Lee. Good morning. Member Rollins Fernandez.

Aloha, Kakahiaka, Chair. Aloha, Kisahiaka, Assistant Nicole. I am in my truck vehicle alone. They're currently not testifying at the multi district office and it sounds like baby Jill takes after her mom.

Good morning, Member Johnson on Lanai. Aloha and Merry Christmas.

Aloha and Merry Christmas to you and everyone else out there. I'm alone on my side of the office, and there's no testifiers here at the Lanai District Office. Thank you.

Good. And good morning, Member Nohi'u Hodges.

Good morning, Chair. Good morning, everyone. I'm alone in my car right now, and I will be joining you folks shortly.

And good morning, aloha, Member Senecchi.

Aloha kakayaka, chair. No testifiers in honor.

And from the Department of Water Supply, I would like to welcome Director Stuffelbine. Good morning Chair. And Planning Program Administrator, Eva Blumenthine.

Good morning Chair, members.

And from our Corporation Counsel, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Caleb Rowe. Good morning, Chair. From our OCS committee staff, our hardworking staff, I want to thank and welcome Keoni Hertel, Jared Pasquale, Maria Leon, Carla Makata and Leigh Denning. Please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. Good morning, everyone.

Today we have one item on today's agenda. Why 18 relates to water conservation and the control of water use during water shortages. Members, if there are no objections, I'd like to take testimony after receiving opening comments on why 'eighteen. Thank you, members. Let's begin.

Members Bill 158, 25 proposes to amend the Maui County Code to strengthen water conservation requirements and establish a comprehensive framework for managing water use during declared water shortages. Our Board of Directors the new new subdivision ordinance to ensure that the new developments developments development of incorporate water the savings landscape design, irrigation and conservation measures. Enforcement provisions are consolidated within Chapter 14.06B, including penalties, appeals and service shutoff authority. The committee transmitted written questions to the Department of Water Supply on Bill 158. Responses from the department have been received and are included on Granicus as item four and seven.

The proposed CD1 version attached as Granicus number 10 clarifies definitions, updates outdoor watering schedules, strengthens leak detection and water waste provisions and establishes performance a future. Future. The We

bring up a the slide presentation. And, before I begin, just want to say two quick things. One is that this is really the result of the work of one of our really good staff members, Robert Derobles. He worked hard on this and I think did an excellent job of putting a lot of this together. And he was going to make this presentation. Unfortunately, he's in travel hell and on an airplane somewhere and couldn't call in. So so I'm doing the presentation for him. But he did some really good work. Secondly, I just wanted to mention that, we did some public outreach a few months ago and on just on general water issues. And certainly, this the water conservation and the and the desire from the public to upgrade and strengthen our water conservation code was at the top of the list of comments we received from the public.

So this is really in, something that was was in development, but it's also in line with what the community is telling us that they want us to do in the council as well. So with that, I'll start. Next slide. Again, I'm going to go over quickly today the purpose of the ordinance, the rationale for it, and then we'll get into the ordinance provisions and kind of a quick summary, and then water use statistics, what kind of our goals are in terms of water conservation, and then what we are what we do and plan to do even more in terms of community engagement to help the community to comply and to conserve water, and then talk about the alignment with our legal and policy requirements. Next slide.

So the purpose of the water conservation ordinance, it's kind of motherhood and apple pie. It's just really good things that we should be doing. It's to protect Maui's obviously scarce and natural water resources, to make sure there's reasonable standards and restrictions. We want we wanna make them stiff but reasonable, to safeguard essential public services so that we are when we are in, when there's problems with the water supply, we're getting the best we know we have the water available for things that we absolutely need, To ensure sustainability and to ensure public awareness of water conservation, a lot of the efforts that we do are just making sure that everyone understands the importance of water conservation and what they can do to be doing their part and then to provide need based water through conservation. Next slide.

The rationale for the water conservation ordinance is pretty clear. When we have droughts and we tend to have more and longer droughts, obviously, there's less rainfall, so we need to conserve water as best we can. We are seeing some rising chloride levels in some of our wells, so we need to be cognizant of that. And we're also seeing decreasing stream flows as a result of the less rainfall to our treatment facilities. There, of course, is additional growth, and we want to support especially affordable housing, one of our it's kind of our primary mission.

It helps us offset capital cost. Any water that's saved through conservation means less that offsets hopefully some cost in terms of developing new sources. It's the cheapest option in terms of new water supply. We wanna make sure that there's clear guidance to the public about what our water conservation goals are and how to achieve them. We wanna make sure we're consistent with all the state and county plans and clearly define what is wasting water, what what things people are doing that that cause water to be wasted so they understand that, and then to help find equity in times of storage.

Next slide. Okay. In terms of our policy next. So, according to the Hawaii state constitution, our policy statement includes protecting water in its natural state, making sure there's equity between the general public and Hawaiian homelands water use and also to use the precautionary principle to protect water, which means obviously do no harm and be very conservative in terms of making sure that the water resources are protected. Next slide.

Okay, now the provisions, the actual what's the beef of the provisions? Is Robert did a really great job of looking through all of these plans and making sure that what we're proposing consistent with all of these plans. I won't go through the list of them, but there's state plans and county plans, and they all say a lot about water conservation. And so we think what we have here is a plan that is consistent and ties in very nicely with all these existing plans. Next slide.

Okay. In terms of physical loss prevention, it's

important

to find and identify nonrevenue water losses, and that really gets down to leaks in our system and leaks in the private system. So, we wanna prevent and reduce, make sure that in terms of private property owners that they're repairing water leaks quickly. Basically, the ordinance requires them to be repaired as quickly as possible and no longer than thirty days. We also, in terms of providing information and guidance, we saw our role as investigating and repairing private property leaks. And then we have we encourage people to have efficient irrigation systems that are essentially controlled, that they use, soil moisture sensors so that they're not over irrigating.

They have auto shutoff valves to stop leaks and control irrigation, convert lawns to equally, equally pleasant, drought resistant landscaping, use electric blowers to clean off outdoor debris as opposed to, obviously, washing them off with water, and replacing aging toilets, urinals and irrigation systems and using pool covers, which is a really important thing in terms of reducing evaporation from the pools. Next slide. In terms of agricultural customers, we're encouraging the best practices that we used. That includes efficient irrigation, installing soil and rain sensors, using drip irrigation whenever feasible, catching the rain, which is really something we very strongly support the catchments managing the soil with amendments using on-site water reuse whenever possible and growing crops that growing sustainable crops that are varieties that are sustainable in this situation in Maui. Next slide.

Okay. So here's some of the specific provisions. We are proposing that outdoor watering be prohibited between the hours of nine a. M. And five p. M, with some exceptions which we'll go into below. Mainly, that means no sprinklers. You know, no sprinklers between nine and 5PM because you lose so much of the water during the time of day when you have high evaporation. And then also, don't water when it's heavy rain when it's raining, obviously, or when there's high winds. With high wind, again, lot of the water just doesn't get to where you want it to go.

It just, you know, blows away. And then we're proposing that we have staggered days for landscaping irrigation. Basically, we're allowing it only every other day depending on, you know, if you're on even residential on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, odd residential, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and so on. And so this is a very effective method that many, cities and counties use across the country to just reduce water consumption. Now here's the exceptions.

You can water between nine and five if you're using hose watering with shutoff valve. Drip irrigation, we always want to encourage that. Agricultural customers are not required to provide to comply with this. And if you're using 100% recycled water, you can water any time. And if it's newly installed landscapes, we understand that if you put something in that's new, you need to water it a little more often, so we make exception for that. Next slide. And then what is wasting water? Here's some of the specific definitions for wasting water. First of all, it's not regarding the best management practices, not using best practices. Removing yard waste debris with potable water, there was washing off your driveway with just your hose with potable water.

Irrigation during heavy rains, that's a that's a water waste. Neglecting leaks and overspray, overwatering landscaping, and then exceeding the highest water rate tier. So these are all what we consider to be just wasteful things that should be addressed. Next slide.

Stop.

Kind Okay. Of things that can be corrected. If you have a sprinkler that's watering too much or not on target, fix that. Don't water during the peak sun hours that we discussed. Use irrigation use drip irrigation whenever possible. Don't just have spray irrigation for plants and shrubs. That wastes a lot of water. Leaking irrigation systems, should be fixed quickly. Here may here in terms of household water use, the outside irrigation is over half of the water use. So that really is where they can make the major major, improvements.

Not applying the cycle and soak method. In other words, you don't wanna over have all the water at one time because you lose a lot of it. You wanna have it watered, give it a chance to relax and water again. Using soaker hoses, you don't wanna use soaker you don't wanna use, in sandy soil. You need to be you need to be, understanding of kinda what the soil conditions are.

In sandy soils versus clay soils, you have a different watering schedule. Obviously, don't water during rain events and replace inefficient fixtures and appliances. Next slide. Okay. Now in terms of encouraging landscape planning to save water, this applies to existing and new commercial residential and public properties where the ordinance requires the installation of efficient irrigation systems, designing landscapes around water conservation.

So as you're putting landscaping together, consider how that you could conserve water in that in what you're proposing to install. Improve and replace water intensive landscapes. Reuse water whenever possible, and encourage pool covers. In the ordinance, actually, we're recommending that we not only encourage pool covers, but require them, whenever the property is vacant or not used or the pool is not used for more than 30 or the house is not used for more than thirty days. They were saying that pools should be pool covers should be required in those situations.

Next slide. For commercial establishments, best practice would be to make sure that staff is trained to understand how to save water, that there are water conservation programs for the patrons, such as, a make sure that we're in that

And

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we're way

water efficient indoor and outdoor fixtures and ensuring it efficient irrigation systems. Obviously, a lot of the hotels like to have a green environment, but they want to make sure we want to make sure that they're watering that environment very efficiently and then to install water efficient HVA systems. So these are all things that commercial establishments can do to make the most efficient use of water. Next slide. And so we our objective, of course, is everyone complies and everyone understands, but we do have penalties for those who don't, especially those who are particularly egregious.

And there's provisions in the ordinance about how that give information to those who are in violation, and they can appeal their decision to the water the water board the border water supply. Fines can be as much as a thousand dollars per day if the violation is not corrected. We also, in ordinance, would have the option of shutting off their water and even removing their meter if they really just refuse to comply and is particularly egregious. Again, it would not be your intention to use that very often, but it is a good it is an important tool to have to make sure that people know that this is this is serious. And then I'm the director is supposed to report report of the council on actions taken regarding shortages and restrictions.

Next slide. You can skip this one. Next slide. Now, in terms of some of the statistics on our water conservation goals, this is the water use. It's in gallons per person per day. And you can see, way to go Molokai, you're at 114. You're doing a great job over there. And then the other ones are around the 200, two twenty one in Lahaina, one ninety eight up country, two ninety one in Central. I would note that in Central, there is a pretty big difference between the Central Area and South South Maui. South Maui uses quite a bit more water in terms of gallons per person per day than Central Maui.

Next slide. So then we've looked at each of these areas about what could be how much water could we save by implementing these conservation actions throughout the county. And a lot. We estimate if we're losing approximately 40,000,000 gallons a day, we estimate we could potentially save as much as 10,000,000 gallons a day over the next twenty, thirty years. And it cost us to develop 1,000,000 gallon.

We currently use 40,000,000 gallons a day. It cost us the last million gallons per day we developed cost almost $20,000,000 So if you save 10,000,000 gallons a day, that's, you know, that's, $2,200,000,000 that we'd be saving. So we're talking about really significant financial savings to the department and the county, if we can we put out water. Now we don't count on the water being saved until it's actually saved, right, because that would not be good policy. So But when we see it saved, then we can take advantage of that.

Next slide. And then what do we do to help customers? What do we do in terms of outreach? Well, we're restarting the toilet replacement program, which they were doing years ago, and it has been stopped, we're but gonna get that going again. We already we do, the high efficiency fixture giveaways.

So if you want a more efficient shower shower fixture, you know, come see us. We're gonna restart the rain barrel program, which is very popular. And we do a lot of water conservation advertising to get the word out and have a lot of resources online. We also do public outreach events, which are very popular. And we have our annual poster and video contest, which is one of the the favorite days of the year when you get to see all the the the great creativity that our kids have in terms of putting together their their posters and videos.

And then we're now starting the process of engaging with hotels and resorts and condominium associations to help them understand what the best practice is in terms of water conservation. We've just selected a a consultant to help us with this, and we're kicking that off. We're all just so you know, we're not only doing it in the county system, we're also inviting the hotels that are served by private water companies to participate. We figure if they all get together, maybe we'll get a little peer pressure going, get them to encourage them to really be efficient in how they use their water. Next slide.

Other initiatives, we do do an annual water audit to kind of make sure we understand where we are in terms of kind of on the supply side. We also have leak detection. We're actually looking at kind of interesting, which is water meters that provide information on leaks in the area of that water meter. It's kind of a cutting edge technology, so it's kind of an exciting one that we're looking at that might help us to identify where there are leaks in in the private, both on the public system and on the private side. Installing in smart meters.

Smart meters are very effective in achieving water conservation. Job I had years ago, we looked at compared, a subdivision that had smart meters with one that didn't. The one that had smart meters, which is a very similar subdivision, had 17 per had 15% less water use. So the smart meters, basically, people can understand how much water they're using, and they also find out when they're when they have leaks. We're also doing gray water pilot programs.

We're doing it in a couple of parks, and then we we're looking at increasing supply side efficiency and replacing older under registering water meters. I would also mention that one of the big things we do that kind of is outside of the realm of this ordinance is our water tiers. The fact that we have tiered water structure, is very effective. As you about in to make the And opportunity very in to we're

And

And that concludes my presentation. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Director Stoffelbien and Mrs. Mundenstein. Before we begin our discussion, let's see if anyone would like to provide testimony for Y18. Staff?

Sure. We currently have two individuals signed up to testify. Okay.

Anyone wanting to testify, please sign up in the lobby, join the online meeting, or call in the phone number noted on today's agenda. For online testifiers, please click the raise your hand button. The

We

you prefer to be referred to now or as anonymous if you wish to testify anonymously. If you are in person, please notify the staff you'd like to testify anonymously. Otherwise, please state your name for the record at the beginning of your testimony. Written testimony will continue to be accepted and can be submitted via e comment at mauecounty.us agendas. Staff will enable your microphone and video when it's your turn to testify.

Oral testimony is limited to three minutes per item. If you are still testifying beyond that time, I will kindly ask you to complete your testimony. You can view the meeting on Akaku Channel fifty three, Facebook Live or mauicounty.us agendas. The quorum must be maintained throughout this meeting. Breaching decorum includes anything that interrupts the orderly management of the meeting. Violation of decorum may result in being removed from the meeting. Meeting. At this time, I'd like to open public testimony for Y18. Staff, please call the first testifier.

Thank you, Chair. The first individual signed up to testify is His Highness Kaua, to be followed by J. C. Law.

Hello. I'm highness Kuwa, representative for kingdom Hawaii government sub initiative of god, a kingdom title holder, true title holder. Yes. You are here for a reason of, what do you guys say, water. We're going we're going beyond that step.

Water, as all this time for this 1893 to now, have been nothing but gains we've been paying to us people. Therefore, we're taking more steps than that, the biggest step ever. Replacing charges against The United States that they are that goes beyond what they put down as war war crimes, and this is a fact. As a representative known as attorney at Seoul, we have all evidence to prove to what is righteously done to our people. And the greatest part about being our people is that I'm a grown man to know who I am as a pure, pureness, not a percentage of 1% or a 100%.

I have a pure blood of mine. I'm pure blooded European, but they have a racist part of it, being white skinned. Michigan, pure body Michigan, white skin. Racist again, they go to our white eye to our Chinese, Japanese, and slant eyes and all that fact. They call out people.

Well, I catch all that spaces. One thing I do have in my family, I'm known as a pro polo black guy. We call a queen a black savage in their own papers. That's not gonna be done no more. It was unrighteously done to our people, which adds up to today, which there was even more, of course, the water has a big thing for all us people here of all nationalities, which I am and they are.

We're not gonna be put into a place of being putt putt putt putt putt putt putt. I'm putt half, 25%, and so forth. I'm not point zero zero one. I'm not a 100%. I'm pure blooded in what I got, and so do they.

So, sir, thank you.

The water.

How do you feel about the this particular bill of water conservation measures?

We're gonna be talking about. The water is not this what you hear is, it's the entire Maui. Because I'm a Iolani Palace representative Maui, and it adds to, of course, more, which I can be swimming in the kingdom all the through Rapa Nui and Midway. It's all borders, not yours. It is and will be come to its point. And his point is the best point and time, not man's time that you guys get it. You have it there now.

Thank you, sir. Can you wrap it up?

I didn't go wrap up. Nothing to have finished.

No. But you have the three minutes, sir. That's our rule.

So the point is there's nobody else here, but I'm here as representative for the king, my governor, nor his attorney, and therefore, I'll put you into the space of it. Like, I walked into the each courtroom to each judge, they know you don't wanna go there. The point is we're here for today as much as we can, and I'll I'll be out here and get things.

Done. Thank you, sir, for your testimony.

I I haven't finished yet.

You gotta only have two minutes.

That's what they said. But before, it's too early to know. But I'm here now, and this is what we got. But The point is

Sir, we do have our presentation and etcetera, and you're more than welcome to listen and very thank you for your comments.

Okay. Water. Members, do

you have any clarifying questions for our testifier?

Therefore, on this day today, the charges we're putting down on The United States surface of the r

Thank you, sir.

The state state of Hawaii, the county county of what it is you're representing of. We'll put it charges on them with the charity that you Hey, Steph.

Request a quick recess. Yeah. Two minute recess.

Three minute recess, please.

I want everybody's name here because this is

Welcome back, members. Nine thirty eight. We'll reconvene our meeting. Staff, our next testifier.

Thank you, sir. The next testifier is JC Lot to be followed by Kai Nishiki on Teams.

And thank you for the, whoever translated this into Hawaiian. I really appreciate it. Hawaiian Hawaiian word of the day is it's a pretty easy one, kahu cook, when you talk about water. Let me try this one and know a little Hawaiian. Pila one fifty eight.

Water conservation and control of water during water shortages. That's that's when I first got here to Hawaii, the first thing I did was ride around and try to check out all the where's the water coming from upcountry. And, yeah, I heard about the pigs and the, contamination in the water and stuff. Oh, the word Hawaiian word of the day, a lot of people know this word, is actually a big word in Hawaiian, and very interesting that they put the the vie in the end of it. It's ka na vie, and the two first two a's have the micron over the top.

It means law, code, rule, statute, act, regulation, ordinance, decree, edict legal to obey a law, to be prohibited, or to learn from experience.

So thank you, mister Law. Are addressing this particular bill that we're Yeah. Was just You're testing my word today, Mark. I it's gonna be

a this is very I'm I'm stick around. I'm not just gonna go talk it and leave. This is gonna be very important. And thank you all for working for the county, all the not only Mahana. Next year is the year of the fire horse. Queen little Kalani didn't get a chance to see one of these years. Her she saw nineteen o six, but she was still queen. And then next year is, the year of the fire horse is gonna be some social justice going on, and it's

also gonna be very, very hot. You for your testimony. Members, do we have any clarifying questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you very much. Staff, please call the next testifier.

Thank you, Chair. The next testifier is Kai Nishiki, to be followed by Casey Lam.

Aloha Chair, committee members, Kainashiki testifying on the water conservation bill. I really feel I'm so glad that this is finally being heard in this committee, as for far too long, Maui County's leadership, particularly in the areas of water and housing policies, have deferred, delayed, and sidestepped critical decisions, allowing systemic inequalities to persist. The result: an ongoing housing crisis worsened by water management policies that failed to reflect our community's true needs. In recent testimony at the Commission on Water Resource Management, there was overwhelming support for the county to assume control over West Maui's water resources, which majority are controlled by private water companies. But the truth is, changing who manages the water will not solve the problem unless we change water uses so that when we enact bills like this that conserve water, and you see in West Maui it could be almost 2,000,000 gallons of water, which could be prioritized to build with 2,000,000 gallons of water, you could build 4,000 safe, new, pet friendly, safe outside of hazard zones housing for West Maui.

And that can happen very quickly. There are projects that are entitled and ready to go, and you could produce a couple thousand units in less than five years. So please prioritize water through conservation for affordable housing through a policy. And when the conservation is realized, then it also must then be allocated for a use that the community values. Otherwise, these water savings can then be continued to be manipulated through special water map or political games that are often played with projects and water.

Also, I would like to bring up that there should be an amendment to the plumbing code that allows R1 water for toilet flushing in multi family commercial and public facilities. Please update the county water system standards. Current standards fail to reflect actual water use. And most importantly, establish a hierarchy of water use priorities and enforce it. So, we look forward to your work today, and really understanding that the key to unlocking housing for our people is through water.

And so, this work that you folks can take on today is very important. Water conservation enforcement could yield thousands of housing units. Mahalo.

Thank you for your testimony. Members, clarifying questions for our testifier?

Happy holidays.

Seeing none.

I had a clarifying question on

Member Palton has a question for you, Ms. Nishiki.

Thank you. On the hierarchy of priority, I think you were seeing, is it your understanding that Hawaiian homes has a higher priority?

Yes. I think along with traditional and customary practices. I think that the county should recognize that when they are allocating our water resources. Thank you.

Members, any other clarifying questions? Member Rollins Fernandez.

Here. Aloha, miss Nishiki. Mahalo for your testimony. Happy holidays. I so, in your testimony, you cited r two water for flushing toilets. I remember Johnson may know this. In Japan, they have handwashing oh, no.

Oh, no. Can you hear me?

We lost you. Remember, Rollins Fernandez? Yeah.

Can you hear me? Oh, great.

Yes. We can hear you. Can

hear you.

Oh, you can hear me? It's a good thing I okay. Well, I'm trying to get my video back on. I was getting a call. That's what happens when you join on the phone. Okay. Anyways, since you can hear me.

There. Okay. Mahalo for everyone's

patience. Okay. Handwashing over the tank. And we heard Director Stuffelbain say that they're gonna be doing the program with toilets that can, like low flushing toilets or I can't remember what it's called. But handwashing into the toilet tank is one way Japan does conservation, and it's far less costly than piping or you know doing new pipes from R2 into the tank and the question about whether know DOH would approve all that just because the lines may cross.

Okay, anyway, Is that something that go along with what you were saying in your testimony about reuse, water reuse into toilet flushing? Oh, absolutely. I did actually see

that when I visited Japan, and very exciting. But I do think for, especially for Lahaina in the rebuild, it's a great opportunity to put in that infrastructure while we have that clean slate. Then also for new multifamily, There's a lot of development happening, and I just think that it's important to put in that infrastructure that enables us to build more resiliently and smarter with everything that we have at our disposal. So, yes, there are things that we need to invest in and make changes to, but great opportunity. I'm just thrilled that after all of these years that R1 recycled water in general is seen as an asset and not something to just inject and kill our reefs.

Mahalo.

Mahalo for clarification. Mahalo, Chair.

Thank you, members. Any other clarifying questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you very much. Staff?

Thank you, chair. The next testifier is Casey Lam, to be followed by David Good on Teams.

Good morning, councilmembers. My name is Casey Lam testifying on behalf of myself as a resident of Kula, and my learnings and my role has led Kormawi as a community builder. I'm in support of this water conservation bill, and I wanted to give a few specific examples of what Director Stuffelbien had presented on. We are designing our communities to ensure water conservation is inherent in the design from the start rather than being retroactive. We're focusing on four aspects: designing for leave for homes, leave for sites, designing landscaping with majority of native canoe plants that are and salt tolerant and low impact development techniques.

Which I believe was in a previous version of the bill, I think is crucial just inherently of what's required in its prerequisites. LEED for homes is the most recognized green building rating system and is standard for environmentally sound building, site design, construction, operations, and maintenance. We are striving for LEED silver for all of our homes. Inherent in the prerequisites is to reduce total water consumption by 20%, and based on our research indoor water consumption can be reduced by more than 40% compared to the county average just through low flow fixtures and energy star appliances. Utilizing smart water meters within homes with leak detection, especially important if people are on vacation or are not visiting.

Water can get shut off when people are not home. We are also looking to leave for sites, which I believe is relatively new. Think only one property in all of the state of Hawaii is certified over on Oahu. It's a comprehensive rating system that focuses on sustainable design, construction, and maintenance of landscapes, providing a framework for creating healthy and resilient environmentally responsible landscapes, integrating best practices in water, soil, agitation, materials, and human well-being. That includes smart irrigation systems for landscaping such as SmartRain that monitors local evapotranspiration rates to prevent overwatering, detecting big leaks that are tracked by zones, In older systems, these leaks are not caught until the next watering cycle.

Conservatively, these can save between 25 to 30%, with some cases going all the way up to 37%. In sites, you also score points for focusing on reduced water outdoor use, managing precipitation to promote groundwater recharge, designing functional storm water features, and restoring aquatic ecosystems. Sites also comes with an educational and performance monitoring to ensure that properties continue functioning at a high level. Next is in our landscaping. We're designing our projects with majority of native canoe landscaping that thrive in drier environments with drought and salt tolerance.

This bill comes at a good time as we are now challenging our landscape architects to ensure all plants we are considering can thrive during a three times per week water schedule, and also ensuring that a great majority of our plants can also endure stage one water shortages as well. Through our time touring White Glow Dry Forest over on Big Island, we have also learned many drought tolerant plants and native plants can function off to little or no irrigation, so we are also looking into incorporating areas of native plant restoration on our sites requiring no irrigation after being established. And last, low impact design, or LID. We're looking to incorporate bioretention systems designed to collect storm water filter pollutants and infiltrate into the ground, otherwise known as rain gardens, reducing the need for landscape irrigation once established. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Member Palton has a question and then Member Sugi Morrow.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Lam. I just wanted to clarify, were you seeing that there is a CITES program that's separate from the LEAD program? How do you spell that CITES?

LEAD CITES, S I T E S. There's overlap, it is separate from leave for homes. We're working with VCA Green who's done a lot of work here in Hawaii as well in California. We're learning about that as well. I do have some written testimony and kind of some speaking points that they put together for us that I can submit that kind of gives a summary of everything that's incorporated in lead sites.

Thank you so much. Yep.

Staff, would he submit that to the committee?

Yes. If it hasn't been submitted already, can be sent to the committee email. That's y. Committeemauicounty dot us. Thank you, Mr. Lam.

Member Sugimara?

Thank you. I actually was going to ask more about these lead sites also. So it's kind of scary if tomorrow and I start thinking alike. That's what I was going to ask. So thank you. Look I'm forward to learning amazed with all that Ledcoria you're working with has done. So thank you.

Thank you. Members? You. Any other further clarifying questions for the testifier? Do we have anybody online?

Chair, it doesn't look like there's any further clarifying questions for the testifier. So at this stage, we can move on to the next testifier, would be David Goode to be followed by Brendan Kennedy. Interesting.

Hello. Hello. Can you folks hear me okay? Sounds like it. David Good here, Upcountry resident and also on behalf of Ledcor Maui where you work with Casey. So my comments around bill one fifty eight CD draft one, which I actually just saw today. So I didn't realize there had been another draft. It certainly looks better than the original bill. This is a really good bill. It's long overdue.

Kudos to DWS, Director Stuffel Bean, and the Planning Division for bringing it forward, and Councilmember Cook for scheduling and discussing. I still think there's some work to do on the bill that I'd like to suggest, so I have a few bullet points to talk about. One, I think Casey alluded to a little bit is adding a requirement for multi family and commercial properties to have their own water use monitoring devices for the individual units or lessees. This is no different than DWS' iOnWater app, which I personally use for our home, but for properties with multiple units. We installed these devices at our recently completed multi family project La'ilola, and each owner there has real time access to their in unit use.

And then the HOA has access to all the units usage and the outdoor uses. This drives a conservation mindset and delivers results. We're very impressed with how the water use has been so low. We will undoubtedly continue to use these monitoring devices in our future projects with or without this bill, but it is something that I think the bill should consider. I think the bill should also consider adding single family home uses on lots greater than a half acre for the requirements that are in subsections one hundred twenty and one hundred thirty.

This is regarding having landscapes and watering systems. These larger lots have the most irrigated area per person and can be some of the larger water users in the county on a per square foot basis. So right now subsections 120, 130 only deal with multi family and commercial but my suggestion is add single family on the larger lots over a half acre. May want to consider the smaller ag lots as well. There's a provision, a section to change title 18 subdivisions in the application process.

I'm not sure why this is needed. Title 18 when you submit a subdivision, it's very general. We're simply creating property lines. The proposed revisions would have asked for details on irrigation systems. That's clearly something that's done later in the process.

It's not done as part of a subdivision map. So I think this section should be deleted. The definition of water efficient talks about xeriscaping with native, it should say I think native and canoe plants. In subsection 20, when it talks about the various plans, I think it should add as may be updated because plans change over time and then you don't have a stale ordinance on your hands. I have a few more which I could discuss, that's my three minutes, it sounds like.

Thank you, Mr. Good. And we have clarifying questions from the members. Member Sugimara?

I wonder first if you could submit what you wrote in written testimony, if you could send it to us. The section that you were recommending to be deleted, can you say what section that is again? I didn't write that down.

It's a section in the bill regarding Title 18. Might be near the end.

We can find it. Right.

Yeah, there's a section on 18 related to private parks and Section 5 related to eighteen point zero eight point zero, explanatory information.

Okay. Thank you. So I hope staff got that. Yeah, you got it. Okay.

I see the director nodding his head. Does that complete your That's it. And then, Member Oo Hodgins.

Thank you, Chair. Member Sugimura asked my question. Thanks.

Member Palton, clarifying questions for our testifier.

Thank you. I just had a couple. Those individual monitoring use mechanisms that you were speaking about, what is the cost per unit and how much did that add to the cost of your development?

That's a great question and I don't know the exact cost but when done with new construction it's pretty straightforward, right? Because individual water lines going into a unit you can install the devices. Casey's telling me how much they were. How much?

Landscaping. 100.

Yeah, so a couple $100 per unit and then on the outdoor landscaping it was a lot more expensive. Think it was wrong. 50,000 for a larger property.

What are the

The current individual units.

Just Individual monitoring mix?

Yeah, I mean it's almost like sub metering, right? So if you have do you have a main meter outside? So this is monitored by the HOA and the individual owners. That way they can see what's going on in their unit or if they have a leak. So it's extremely handy.

Thank you. And then my other question was when you wanted to add not only multifamily and whatnot but single family lots greater than half acre then you're seeing smaller ag lots. We considering substandard ag lots or two acres or less? What is your definition of smaller ag lots?

That's not a really good question. I would say if I had to guess I'd say less than five acres. Thinking about most ag lots you need an ag farming plan that requires like half of the property be in farming. That means the other half is not. I'm thinking about those areas that are not in farming or ag. That's a lot of area. You're saying Seems to me they should be.

You're saying that ag lots five acres are less on the non agricultural portion?

Right. That would make sense to me.

The part about native and canoe plants, you don't know what section that was, do you?

That was in the definition section, so it's at the opening section.

Okay. Thank you

You're so welcome.

Thank you.

Members, any clarifying questions for our testifier?

Yes, Mr. Rowe? If I may, I believe he was referring to the definition of water efficient on item six or subparagraph six, under the definition of water efficient, it refers to zero escaping with native plants or water efficient plants.

Mr. Good?

Yeah, that's correct. I had a few more, if you can indulge me.

Yeah. I'm getting nods. Members, you're in agreement.

Are we still in public testimony?

Yes.

Oh, okay then. I think that, if if you wanted to make him a resource, that would be more appropriate so that we can finish public testimony and close.

Can I request that we make him a resource under Rule 18?

Members, are you in agreement? Yes, I'm getting unanimous agreement. Mr. Good, are you available to be a resource? We'll complete our public testimony if you'll stand by.

Sure, can do. Thank you. Thank you.

Staff? Thank you, Chair. The next individual signed up to testify is Brendan Kennedy to be followed by Jim Langford.

Hey, good morning, everyone. Thank you for the time. I appreciate it. Actually, I didn't plan on testifying, but when we started talking about recycled water, my ears perked up quite a bit. I'm testifying on my own behalf at this point, just on a little bit of the history of using recycled water, specifically in Kihei from the Kihei wastewater treatment plant.

Everyone at wastewater is very helpful, and we currently are installing recycled water on several projects in the tech park in Kihei, which is now kind of rebranded as LaPoa. So that is a huge, drastic drop in water, especially for commercial and multifamily properties. We have a 20,000 square foot office building I know that I think pulls less water than my own home sometimes, just based on irrigation. So it's like 200 gallons a day or 300 gallons a day or something. It is drastically much lower, as I'm sure you guys are aware.

The reduced or recycled water in Kihei, I think, is the best opportunity at recycled water water conservation. I think the items in this bill are welcome. I think a lot of them are already happening, on new commercial properties, on new commercial and multifamily developments. One thing I would just advocate for is recycled water is not permitted for use in single family homes in new developments. So you will have a recycled water system in the street that will distribute water to that three foot landscaping strip, but then the homeowner is now using their potable water in their potable meter.

The DOH rules cite that they're they don't explicitly bar single family recycled water use, but they do cite that there needs to be a recycled water manager. So it would be not directly a part of this bill, but something to consider and keep in mind as a support for DOH or wastewater rule change. If a recycled water manager could be in place through the HOA, there may be an opportunity to allow R01 use for drip irrigation in single family homes. I think as long as you have a specific manager in the Department of Health and wastewater not chasing down 8,000,000 homeowners, I think it's a great opportunity to continue to lower potable water use in single family homes and then overall. I know there's significant investments in the R1 infrastructure within Kihei, I would really support the expansion of that use on kind of new developments and then allowing allowing and and getting R1 infrastructure installed in new R1 meters distributed to commercial and multifamily homes.

Other than that, I don't have any specific comments legislation. I do support it, and I think a lot of it is kind of already happening, just with natural market forces. That's all I have.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kennedy. Members, clarifying questions for the testifier. Member Sugimura?

Thank you very much for deciding to testify. I was just wondering, you're talking about a did you say an R1, app? Which is is that available?

Right now, there's, a pretty good, sophisticated R1 system in Kihei that goes a little bit north and quite a bit south. It's close to being a loop. It feeds the new high school and feeds several commercial properties and makes it down to, I believe the Kama'ole 1 Park. That's as far commercial buildings, I'll use LaPoa or the Tech Park as an example, is all R1 irrigation and has just super low potable water use.

Fantastic.

Sorry. Is that your park.

I thought you said app. There was an HOAs can use R1 water. Oh, sorry. I thought you said Oh, I misunderstood what you said. Thank you for Oh, congratulations on the Laporte project. That's really great to hear. Thank you.

Members, any other clarifying questions for our testifier? Seeing none, thank you, sir.

Staff? Thank you, chair. The last individual signed up to testify is Jim Langford.

Aloha. I had to put my hair back so I don't distract. Thank you all for what a wonderful day of new ideas and and discussing water and all the different solutions that can be applied. I've been running risk analysis models on everything that's been testified about recycled water, plow drip, as well, too, building three d printed cement basins as a $0.12 on the dollar solution. Tom can explain that these printing those bases is like 9,000 PSI concrete, and the Keilani is built at 3,000.

If you can get $0.12 on the dollar to catch water that runs down the hill. Anyway, let me stay on point. Introducing atmospheric water generation for to solve long term water solutions is an expensive but way to do it by the numbers that are used in desert areas like Las Vegas, Where the humidity is low. But we have an opportunity here to suggest like oh in the new age three and age for zoning that's going to happen. We can say attached to that we would like you to produce your own water with these systems.

To offset. The conversation in a in a technical solvable way rather than an emotional way we've made it past the emotional part. Of solving the problem respectfully. We've honored the spirit of. The people's wishes now can we go forward in the technical way that combines expensive water generation like a W S where it's a big dehumidifier in a.

In in a shipping container. Solar powered. I've posted some information on Facebook on cost breakdowns risk analysis on this thread today. If you folks need it in a different way, please have someone reach out and I'll prepare a report for you and email it as needed. So these are things that we can do to offset the the push of where we're gonna get the water for new construction. Well, we'll make it on the roof. End stop. So I love you guys. If you need me, I can speak to that ad nauseam. I have a few years of research at a PhD level in on this topic.

Thank

you all. Thank you very much, Mr. Lundford, for your testimony. Members, do we have any clarifying questions for our testifier? Seeing none, thank you, sir. Staff? Yes, sir.

So, chair, that's all the individuals signed up to testify. If anyone in the audience or in teams would like to testify, please come up to the mic and begin your testimony. Or use the raise your hand function on teams and staff will unmute you. Here's a brief countdown. Three, two, one. Seeing none, Chair, no one has indicated that they wish to testify.

Members, seeing that there are no individuals wishing to testify, without objection, I will now close oral testimony.

Thank you. No objections.

As a reminder, written testimony will continue to be accepted into the record. Members, I'm proposing two rounds of three minute questions per member. Any objections? Okay. Thank you, members. Let's begin discussion. Councilmember Sugimara?

Thank you. This is fabulous. A great way to end the year, really. I look forward to passing this. I also look forward to knowing if you have if you will be making more amendments based upon what the testifiers said.

I'm sure that, you know, later on in the meeting or whatever you wanna do. But I'm glad to hear that we are working with the hotels because we're constantly hearing about how they waste water and whatever. So I'm glad that you're to And excited opportunity grow the we're business. Sounds like an example of good good policy in action.

We have had some conversations with them. We'd glad to, you know, con continue those and and enhance them too.

Yes. Yeah. That's great. And I guess we were Oh, did you want

to say something? No, we just really appreciate the input from that core, and I agree that they're really putting some really good examples of what can be done. Yeah.

I question that's own. And I very relationship up. I don't know how you that's do that.

Yes, that's a really good point. I mean we're it's really just staffing that prevents us from going out more and engaging with landscapers, homeowners associations and whatnot. But we still we do need to do that more now if this bill is passed as the education and kind of clarifying efforts. Are we going somehow find time to really bring that up

a notch? Fabulous. And I wanna tell you as a Kula resident that I have not been using my sprinklers for years. I think after we moved in, realized that drought season is every summer. All my plants and grass are doesn't look like when we bought the house. But we do our own conservation in a cooler way. Drought works. That's all. I'm thrilled to see what amendments and if we can pass this bill.

Member Johnson, you have some questions for the department?

Sure. I think I might have longer than three minutes, but first question is for you, Chair. Do you plan to pass this bill today? Or Does that fit your intention?

Yes, I would like to. I think that we can make some amendments to it as far as recommendations. I trust that the department can and will take to that. To And And do

that.

And a question. Able

I'm think going to jump into my questions for that's Director Stuffel Bean in regards to his two slides on pool covers. Director, on one slide, it said like you wanted to require pool coverage, and then the other one was to encourage. I personally would like to tighten up the language to make them know, fire folks have pool coverage when especially during the day when they're not in use. But I'd like to hear your opinions on strengthening that language on pool coverage, Director. Sure.

You. Yes. I mean, I would in an ideal world, I would say everybody should have a pool covered tomorrow. But we realize that there's a lot of people, and it would be hard for them to have that that quickly. So, you know, we we started with, a pool that is not used for thirty days or something that's a vacant house. Going beyond that, I think that's a great idea. We would have to think about kind of the timing of that and give people a chance because there's a lot of pools that would need to achieve, we need to acquire pool covers. Certainly would support requiring pool covers for any new construction, and then maybe some kind of a schedule for existing homes.

Okay. I'm on limited time, so Corporation Counsel, how about some language, if I could just read this off on the record for you, and maybe you can get back to me in the second round. But basically, in 14.06, B as in Bravo, point one five zero, pole covers or A, section A, pole covers must that is in certain language must be used to limit evaporation from swimming pools. And then two, for swimming pools when not in use during the day would be the language I would put in. But I'd like to hear maybe, corporation counsel's opinion on can we strengthen this language a little bit more on what do you guys recommend?

But if we have time, they can discuss it. Otherwise, I'll wait take around. Thank you, Chair.

Sorry. What was the second point that you made? I missed that. The

Sure. In part two, it says, for private swimming pools when not in use, and the new language would be underlined during the day. That's in 14.06, B as in Bravo, point one five zero.

Yeah. I don't have a problem with adding that. I would just like to mention that this is applying to only clients of the water department, right? So we can put those restrictions on that. I don't see a problem with that.

May I add to that? Thank you, Chair. Yes, the provision there under 146b, 151, I don't know. I don't really want to speak for Department of Parks and Recreation, but we have that contingency in there. If it is possible that it would add for public safety. But in some cases, it may be an issue to have pool covers at certain public pools. So before adding a requirement for public parks, we may want to consult with them or leave it as a so that option is still there.

Member Johnson, ponder this and bring it up in your second round.

Okay. Sounds good. Thank you, Chair. Member Bolton?

Point of information on his I just to try and understand the discussion. Did he wanna remove private? Because parks pools are not private. Right? They're public pools.

I I personally would kind of, leave the option open for parks. How many pools are do we have? Under 10, I I could be wrong, but I'm I'm I I'd leave it open. I don't wanna make it too hard for the departments, but what what whatever the body decides, I'm I kinda feel like leaving it open. But

Okay. I just I didn't follow the entirety of that conversation. But, my first question for the department is on slide six, I believe, of the PowerPoint presentation where it says general public and Hawaiian homeland water use equity. If that is your, water conservation policy, I'm I'm not sure because I thought that Hawaiian homes have legally protected rights to water rooted in the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act and state constitution. So just wanted to clarify what you meant by equity.

There's the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act of 1921 and the state law like h r s one seven four c dash one zero one recognize significant water rights for the Hawaiian Homes Commission Trust. It's right up there with traditional and customary uses, which is above. Did you mean by equity, not the same?

Right.

Well, I guess I may ask attorney to to opine on that, but, you know, we want I guess the general the idea would be that as we're looking at our water use that we give full consideration to the to the requirements of the constitution in terms respecting the Hawaiian Homeland's usage and the public trust uses. That was the intent of that.

Okay. Not seeing that they're the same level. Right. Okay.

All right.

Do you want to add anything, Caleb?

Just wanted to clarify that.

Would just add that, I believe that we've input that in somewhere that, the of Hawaiian Homeland's use is a recognized the reservation system is a recognized public trust use. And I think we put that elsewhere. So I didn't put together a slideshow, but we have it in the legislation that that's recognized.

Okay. Good. Good. And then the other question I had was, the shortage in conservation plan, like, would kind of it it aligns with it and it would be considered like a conservation policy. And, my understanding is in special management areas like West Maui, which has a ground and surface water special management area designation, the sea worm can create a shortage plan for the entirety of the water aquifer sector area.

And if they decided to say, you know, we didn't come up with no shortage plan, let's just use the county Of Maui's one as the shortage plan for the Lahaina Aquifer sector area, Is that a possibility if Sea Worm designates this bill or your short your conservation policy and, shortage plan to be the overall shortage plan, like, at least to start with? You got something in writing and it's legal for the entire Lahaina Aquifer sector area? Thank

you for that question. Well, first we have or the water commission has consulted with us in starting to develop their weather shortage plan. Ours that was completed last year was the intentions were multiple, but one of them was, of course, to have a shortage plan in place for Lahaina because it's a designated area. So in the absence of a commission approved plan, they could refer to ours, but I don't know what the status of theirs is. But once and if one would be adopted, it would supersede.

I think we make a note of that too, especially looking at the agriculture exemption we have. That's not a public trust use. We would expect that theirs would be a little more stringent than that respect.

No complaints from me. Thank you.

Chair Lee, questions? You're muted.

Sorry, Chair. I thought you heard me. I have no questions, only because I have to leave for another meeting in about one minute. Okay. But, thank you. I appreciate the we have been supporting, you know, having a conservation bill passed this year for almost one year now. So, I'm glad it's here. And I'm very happy to see the work that has gone into it. But, am concerned a little bit about enforcement because, you know, we have so many vacancies. That really has to be addressed.

And I was going to have some questions on the smart meters, which were started years ago. And it's really not a new project, nor is the loop in South Maui. That was started in, like, 2020, you know, under Eric Nakagawa. So, I'm glad to see that there's progress, and I wish I could stay longer. And thank you very much.

Thank you, Chair. Member Rollins Fernandez, do you have any questions for the department? Discussion?

I do. Okay. I'm also in my office, and I have my staff, Maha Bright Wilhelm, with me on this side of the office. Okay. So maybe I'll just if you want to go before me, chair, and then I'll take my turn.

Member Hodges.

Thank you, chair. If mister Good is still on, if you could please continue for my opportunity. Thank you.

Aloha. Can you folks hear me?

Yes, thank you.

Okay. Take the chair and member Houvajans. So let's see where I left off. We talked about an 20 at the various plans. It should add the phrase as may be updated so the ordinance doesn't go stale as time goes on.

In Section 60A one, two and three, these are the shortages, the 10%, 20%, 30% reductions. It doesn't specify what the baseline is, so it's 10% of what or 20% of what. For years as an upcountry resident for thirty plus years, this always came up during previous shortages. What are we looking at the last 12 prior on average, how does that work? This may refer back to the rules, there's rule making authority here I think rules are going to be needed.

So maybe this is certainly question for the department. So we need to know what we're reducing from. Another minor kind of mean anything is the word use excessively windy days. This is in subsection 90 B. Five. It'll stop spray irrigation. I mean it makes sense but I don't know what excessively windy days are. So that needs some definition I think. Subsection 70 talks about publication of the Maui News on a weekly basis. What if the Maui News goes to less than weekly?

This exact issue was before the Planning Commission I think recently because they had some public requirements that were no longer doable because value news only publishes once a week now. What if it goes to once every two weeks? That needs to be thought through I think. And I'm glad to hear they're talking about pool covers. We're gonna install pool covers on old new pools going forward for our projects, lead core projects, if I'm not a pool owner but my neighbors got a pool. It was not designed for a cover. I don't know how he puts one in. There'll be times where he's not using it for more than thirty days. I'm sure he'd like to or others would like to. If it's not designed for a pool cover, know, can it be done?

So I think, I know, I guess I'd like to hear from the pool companies and people that do this. Departments talk to them. That's what I had. So thanks and Broo Hodgins and Chair.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Do you have any further questions?

Sure. I guess if Oh, Mr. Rowe, did you have something you

want add?

Sure. If I really could, just interject a little bit. We refer to in a newspaper of general circulation, and the way that our department has interpreted that includes the Honolulu Star Advertiser because they are in general circulation in the county of Maui. So even in the case that the Maui News, whatever happens with them, we would still be covered with that. And that's how we've kind of been interpreting things going forward. Yeah. Just wanted to make that clear.

I appreciate that. Thank you very much. I wanted to ask the question about the base line shortages of 60. Write the paragraph right above that. How do we establish a base line? What is your guys' method there?

Department? And I would add that this section didn't change. This is already in the existing code. Eva can talk about how we do that.

There is the change in so in the current code, the water shortage is declared if the demand is projected to exceed certain percent, right? So we don't really define the baseline in the current code. But de facto what we use is current production. And we haven't set a very descriptive language in how we project the shortage to occur. I mean there's multiple triggers in the what shortage plan and then there's circumstances where we can and cannot apply them.

So I would say, we're looking at current production, looking back and trying to project forward. What we're trying just to define and I don't think Director know either what the original stage percentage points came from. There was nothing scientific about it. This is more just focusing in on where we need what we need demand to land in relation to current production, current demand. You. Thank you, Mr. Good. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Member Anans And Fernandez, we'll go back to you. Mahalo, Tran. Welcome on the floor.

Mahalo. Happy to be here on the floor, and Mahalo for that flexibility and letting me, come out to the floor and, save my questions until I get got here. Okay. Let me turn this down real fast. Okay. I I may have missed this. And aloha, department. Mahalo for being with us, and mahalo for, this work on, water conservation. It's so important. And as you've heard, it's important to us as well, and there's no shortage of ideas on how we can try try to promote water conservation.

So I wanted to quickly clarify on the discussion, the questions that Member Poulton was asking Mr. Good about the meters that Leadcore installed on their development. Is that different than the smart meters that the department has been installing? And was that already clarified? I'm sorry if I missed

that. Department? Yeah.

So I think he was talking about submetering, which means meters. So we have a meter at the property line.

Got it.

And then

if there's a number of right. And just I mean, we would strongly support additional submetering. There are some places now that are requiring it around the country. It is expensive to retrofit submetering, so we have to keep that in consideration.

And submetering is for the landscaping?

No. Submetering would be like each individual hall Each individual home within condominium association department gets their own meter so they can find out exactly how much water they're using, which is very effective in water conservation. But, again, to retrofit is expensive.

Yeah. Think you and I talked about that before. Right. Okay. Because we already do smart metering and we're slowly rolling out that. There any updates on that

that

That you want to project started, as Chair Lee mentioned, several years ago. Was we are continuing to implement more to install more and more smart meters as the budget and the staffing and so on allows. So our intention is to have everybody on smart meters as quickly as possible.

Right. Just take time and money. And then xeriscaping, I don't know if I missed this in the presentation, but on Oahu, their board of water supply partners with different organizations that help to promote water conservation, such Sierra Club. And they do distribution of xeriscaping, like free plant distribution like once a year. Is that something that the department may be interested in doing?

Department? Sure.

Thank you for that question. We have worked closely with Maui Botanical Garden and others over the years to either participate in the free giveaways. They sponsor free plans for us to be we give away at the county fairs. So there's different ways to engage with the public to do that. We are working with the Mount Neuve Technical Garden on a really exciting project for them to actually build, develop seerscaping microclimate appropriate gardens to represent each microclimate of our island.

So that will be for the public to come and see what would it look like if I want to do serescaping and native appropriate plants in Kula. You can actually see that. So that's underway.

Great. Mahalo, Maui Nui Botanical Garden for your focused partnership. Okay. And then in the presentation, you spoke about doing the smart flushing sorry, I don't remember what it's called

toilets. Flow.

Low flow toilets. And then how does that work, and would that include some of the ideas such as hand washing over the tank so that when you wash your hands, they can fill the tank?

Department? I don't think we've got

quite that cutting edge. I kind of like the idea. The idea here is that you get a rebate if install a low flow toilet, and we're looking at reimplementing that program.

Okay. So maybe we could do a rebate for like washing your hands over the tank. I can show you the one that I got. It's not that expensive. I

love it.

Okay, great. Mahalo, Chair. Yeah.

You. And Member Seninsky, discussion.

Thank you, Chair, my opportunity. Thank you for the presentation. At the beginning, you mentioned that this bill repeals Chapter 14.06A and creates this new chapter. I haven't sorry, I haven't seen, 14.06A. Can you explain the differences?

One. The

we'll we'll 20

include a conservation element into it. So as it currently exists, fourteen oh six a does include parts of what's going to be put into fourteen oh six b, which is what goes on during a declared water shortage we're to

And do

include conservation as well as adding in the things that are already kind of in there for fourteen oh six. So it's repealing, but it's really just adding to fourteen oh six, guess, if that answers the question.

Yeah. Thanks. And then were there anything that was left out, from, fourteen oh six a that you didn't put back in?

I don't believe so. We just kind of renumbered it. And I think if anything, we probably made it a bit stronger. Do you?

Yes, I would say. I mean, is what we just talked about, the shortest declaration moving from kind of predictive demand.

Right. Okay. Thank you. And then I can check back later. But and then in 1406B.

01/2010, water conservation at commercial establishments, you include hotels, motels, resorts and then there's some improvements, water efficient indoor outdoor fixtures, smart control irrigation systems, hiring professional landscapers, installing water efficient laundry facilities, installing, heating ventilation, air cooling systems. Have you spoken with the hotels? Is this are they okay with I guess, is is this gonna add to their or is this just for new hotels, resorts?

Department? Thank you for that question. Yes. So we are engaging with hotels. And I think one of the testifiers mentioned, I mean, are things that are generally already implemented.

Those hotels are very energy efficient. Some of them are actually LEED certified. But again, I mean, we're having this more focus on hotels through the contract the Director mentioned earlier to really get that good feedback from them, making sure that what practices are in place and are there ways we can support them to be maybe even LEED certified in the future for those who are not. So these are so there's two sections here. I mean there's requirements for existing resorts and then the more stringent measures that you mentioned, essentially, is the for new, right, when there's you're putting in a new irrigation system, new landscape or not then or a new resort for that matter, then these come into effect?

Because I know that we had, again, the higher use tax bracket and some of these hotels were in the high water use bracket. And so I guess the intention for us to increase those tax rates was to push conservation. So it sounds like they're open to doing these things to those tax hikes. Director?

Well, yeah, I would add that, yes, I mean, think the increase in the water rates would be a significant encouragement for them to be more conservative in water, which is why we did it. And I believe council even went further than we were going to go, which we thought was great. Thank you.

And then real quick, Chair, golf courses, are the golf courses included in for water conservation at commercial establishments

We currently don't serve any potable water for any golf courses. So a golf course clubhouse would fall under commercial. Got it. Irrigation of the actual course.

Then you also don't serve agriculture establishments with potable water?

There's really only Kula Agriculture Park that is using non potable water from the department system. So other agricultural users on our system use potable water for sometimes non potable needs.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Roe?

So, if you look at, 14.06.01.10.0, it references back to, commercial establishments means establishments used for commercial purposes as defined in nineteen oh four. Zero four zero. So that's you can and if you want, I can I can read that? I just need to I just need to find it. Commercial purposes means the growing, processing, manufacturing, or sale of products or goods, or the provision of services for consideration and profit.

We reference back to a definition of it.

Thank you. Before we do the second round, Chair's question for the department, the proposed chapter is titled Water Conservation and Control of Water During Water Shortage. But several provisions appear to apply at all times, including the a the And progress we've Or is the intent of these provisions only applied during declared water shortages?

Thank you. Well, don't have any strong feelings about it. But I think that I mean this is this bill is kind of reflecting what the shortage and conservation plan refers to as stage zero. We can be in a shorter situation, stage one, two or three. But these measures that are discussed and we're proposing now after the shortest declaration language is really like permanent conservation measures. I think what we're saying in the title relating to water conservation and control of water use during water shortage, I think it captures the permanent measures.

Mean, I'm very supportive of it. Thank you. That does clarify it. I just wanted to emphasize during the meeting that it is not just during water shortages, but this is the water conservation and control plan. So members, would you be receptive to a five minute recess?

K. We will reconvene at 10:50. Welcome back, members. We're gonna reconvene the why December 17, committee meeting, and it is now 11:09. Members, second round of questions. Any need? Discussion for clarification. Member Palton.

Thank you, Chair. I guess on the education and outreach, is it 100 through the consulting or, are you going to put in, like, a mailer in with people's bill as well or other things like that?

In terms of outreach, if this bill is passed? Correct. Yes. So it's a separate contract for a consultant that really just a rest of sorts. And then we staff are doing a range of different kind of outreach. I mean that's what we're saying.

We just have to The consulting is only for resorts and condos like that. Then you're going do general education and outreach. Do you have enough budget for that? I mean, it's more

the staffing, really, time and staffing. And we still have vacancies, so it's really just time.

The South Maui community plan will be coming up soon. And I know they're currently working on the Central Maui community plan. Is any of these things need to be included in that?

Well, do consult with the planning long range divisional planning department so they're aware of the bill. I don't know if there's I think it aligns pretty well with the draft strategies of the South Miami community plan now. I don't know that they need

to reference each other. Oh, okay. In terms of education or something, no, nothing. And then the section where they were talking about native plants, and then it it mentioned, like, maybe also canoe plants or, water efficient plants.

We're then,

to

able do

that. To No And addition.

Okay. What about requiring sub metering for new multi family or commercial properties?

I like the idea. You might wanna talk to the building folks about that. That's a pretty big deal.

So maybe, like, a later bill or something. The other, one I was talking, or thinking about amending was instead of a newspaper of general circulation, could we do media, just media? Because, I think we ran into that issue also with the posting of public hearings that they said, star advertiser is really expensive. And, just putting media in general circulation could be, like, social media or other radio or whatever, and it just gives more flexibility.

We're going to do that, I would remove the term publication and just some other word in there because if we don't specifically define it in the legislation, it goes back to what the HRS states and the HRS states. So

Okay. I have one more.

Okay. We can proceed.

On 14 o six b point 100 d, We've had a flooding incident in my former, job where the whole storage flooded. And, really, the only way to clean out mud like that is to use water. Could that be an exception as well, like cleaning up after a indoor flooding incident?

Yeah.

I think that's covered under the is necessary for public health and safety.

Oh, okay. Okay.

And I would also say there's also there's one about use in sorry, which one? I was just looking at it. Yeah, the public safety one, and then there's also repairs and maintenance activities.

Oh, so it would be already covered?

I would think that that would go under maintenance activities, yeah.

Okay. Thank you. That's it. That's all for me.

Members, any other Member Woo Hodges?

Thank you, chair. I wanted to ask a question about the subdivisions, the one Mr. Good brought up earlier. So that's well, at least on your ASF, that's on page 14, paragraph c. The statement must include landscapes landscape design, irrigation, and water conservation measure measures, as required under a chapter. Can you define what the statement you're gonna be looking for? Is that just a paragraph? Is that a sentence? What what are you gonna be looking for in this statement? That's your added new language.

Please. So under the what currently exists, right, it already requires a statement regarding the water system. So they're just asking to include in that landscape design irrigation and water conservation member Measures.

I

think that we can probably clarify that in admin rules Okay. At a later point, but I would defer to the department on that. But I think that would be the better way to go about going through if we have an admin rule that specifies what needs to be included in the statement, that would be a better place to do it.

Okay. Then when because this is for a subdivision. The subdivision is obviously just unfortunately, it's lines on a piece of paper that takes a long time. And then you go through the building permit requirement, they're gonna require an LPAP in planning. How is this going to be in line with the LPAP when they have to do that? If they if it like, let's say it's commercial and not residential. Do you know? The landscape parking plan that requires irrigation requirements. Did you guys coordinate the LPAP to this as well? And what happens to the LPAP during, times of conservation?

Do you know?

I will admit I did not consider that when I was reviewing this bill. Okay. So I

mean, it is quite nuanced, but, right? When we do when we do a commercial subdivision and you have to do your parking plan, you required you required an LPAB, your landscape parking plan. And so I'm just wondering how that lines up and then how that would work with your statement. But, my other question that I had separately to all the questions that mister Good asked was how did you folks work with the other departments? And I was gonna bring up the LPEP with planning. So Okay.

Frankly, as the director gave credit in the beginning, there's a staff member that has worked on both of the engagement, I can't refer to him because he's not here. I do know that there was engagement between I just know for the planning department but with public works and DSA and our own engineering division, of course, like really how we're going to process what who is this burden of administering this code falling on some.

Okay. I know in the LPAP, I think they require some drip irrigation, so perhaps in your admin roles you can, align it in there. I don't know if that's how it works, but, I don't wanna hold up all the things, just for an LPP. So I'm hoping that there's another side path side quest we can do, to make that coordinate so we don't have mismatching requirements throughout the county.

Oh,

okay. That face says you have something to add now. No. And we're you're gonna define that in the admin rules, and then the admin rules are gonna be posted on your website before this is or as this is being implemented so that people can have something to follow along. Yes?

So we're gonna be hopefully passing this ordinance, and then we're going to develop admin rules, and

we're gonna

go through the normal process of admin rules where they're posted. They have to be published thirty days in advance and then there's going to be a public meeting and etcetera. So we're going to go through that process.

Okay. Because this, ordinance takes effect on approval. So this is going to be within the next few weeks, how long are you gonna take to develop admin rules for the details? And do you wanna make it that this takes, effect on some date that works better when admin rules are pow and you can, let the public know how you folks are going to be administering this?

Sure. I would think it would be, effective maybe in two or three months between from adoption so we have time to develop the admin rules would make sense.

March 26? Yes.

They're keeping me employed.

Good. We need you. So I'm glad they're giving you work. Thank you.

Thank you. Member Senensi, do you have any questions?

I see, Member Johnson has his hand up. I can go after him.

Okay. My apology. Member Johnson?

Sorry, Chair. If you're going down the line, I

can wait my turn. I I confess I was not going down the line. I was just going next to Noy. Oh. Hand up, please. Your questions.

Okay. Well, after hearing the director's comments in regards to if we do require more stricter wording on pool covers, then maybe we need a little bit of time for a phase in. So, I came up with some language, and I just want to read it, and then maybe the department and corporation counsel can speak on it. But basically and it's on page 11 in the bill, and I'll read the numbers again. 14.06, B as in Bravo, 150, swimming pools.

Section A, pool covers must. And we would strike out the word should, and that's all the amendment would be for that. But then we get into Section two. It says, for private swimming pools when not in use, and here's the new language, during the day, homeowners may be exempt from this provision for one year from the effective date of this ordinance. So, that would be the language that I would propose an amendment, and I'd like to hear if that would satisfy directors' concern about the rolling out or the phasing out and also corporation counsel.

So I can support the department can support that. I just would say that that's placing a pretty good burden on a lot of people to get coverage, but it would certainly do a lot for water conservation. So the department would support that.

Okay. Before I hear from corporations, will say I did, Google's my friend and I did a Google search and there are universal pool covers. There are folding pool covers. There are flaps of pool covers that you can cut and shape to your kidney shaped pool or however shaped pool you have. But there are products on the market for very unique pools. Just throw that out. Corporation counsel, what do you think?

I was going to say that I'm not particularly concerned about there being any sort of challenge to that because they're still allowed to it's still an allowable use. It's just a restriction on the use, so it doesn't raise concerns about property taking, for example. So I'm not concerned about that. As far as the phasing, I defer to the department on enforceability of it. So that's kind of where I am. But as far as including that language, I don't see a legal problem with including that language. It's an enforcement issue.

Okay. I just recall something about that was my we had an internal discussion about the term that we were amending on Section two. It says, Homeowners may be exempt from this provision for one year. How about instead of homeowners, would property owners have a bit of more of a wider, you know, better wording, property owners versus homeowners? Because I don't want to get into the idea of, you know, what's a home. But just if you own the pool, you got to do it. So how's that? Does that sound a little

bit better, property owners instead of homeowners? From an enforceability standard, that's much better, yes. Because we don't have to distinguish

Thank you.

If someone's an owner. So, yeah.

Great. Okay. So, that would be my amended language once we get to that phase of this discussion, Chair Cook. That's all I got. Thank you so much.

Okay. Members, any other questions before members, I didn't see.

Thank you, Chair. Just for clarification, this is for countywide, yeah, this will apply to all districts? I believe

it only apply to those areas in which the county provides water. Okay.

It does seem that and I guess South Maui has a lot of, I guess, the swimming pools and commercial auto hotels. And I'm only bringing it up because oftentimes when we do have water restrictions, it's not always here in South Maui where there's where there's a need. Right? So I like this this bill, but oftentimes, upcountry residents are subject to the water restrictions and and not South Maui. Is there I mean, I and I and I like this because it's it's addressing, you know, water use in in down in South Maui.

I just wanted to make that statement, Sherida. We get a lot of correspondence from people upcountry that have to be on water restrictions during the drought times.

Okay, thank you. Any comments from the department?

I would just add that in 1406B-twenty, we specify when this language would apply. So it would be to potable water customers of the department, customers of private operate well, it's all customers of the department and then customers of private water operators who are subject to these conditions as a result of an agreement between the private operator and the county or as a condition of a land use entitlement. So we're trying to make this as broad as possible, but the department is limited in its ability to enforce rules by the charter.

Members, any other questions before we recommend passage?

Okay.

So Seeing no further discussion, we'll move on to decision making. The chair would like to entertain a motion on recommending passage of Bill 158 on first reading.

So moved.

So moved by Member Sugimara. Seconded by Member Oo Hodges, to recommend passage of Bill 150 eight-twenty 25 on first reading. Members, any discussion before I move on to my amendment summary form? Member Palton.

Sorry. I had an amendment, but I'll wait until your amendment summary form. Members,

your chair would like to entertain a motion to substitute bill 150 eight-twenty 25 with the proposed CD1 version incorporating the amendments referred to in the ASF's description. So move. Moved by Member Sugimura, seconded by Member Hodgins to substitute Bill 158 with a proposed CD1 version. Members, this ASF amends the bill's title and purpose statement, clarifies definitions in Sections 14.01.04 and removes unused definitions, amends Section 14.06B. 90 to rename commercial facilities to non residential establishments for outdoor watering schedules and clarifies that permanent landscape restrictions apply unless a specific water shortage declaration overrides them.

Deletes references to Title XIX water conservation provisions and limits substantive water conservation requirements to Title XIV. Revises enforcement provisions by consolidating penalties, appeals and service shutoff authority within Section 14.06b.160 and expressly excluding Chapter 14.06B from Title XIX Administrative Enforcement, makes conforming amendments and non substitute and technical revisions for clarity, consistency and style. Is there any discussions?

Second. Moved. So moved.

Okay. For Okay. I guess there's a Bear with me. In discussing so in item one, amending the bill's title and purpose of statement, after the discussion during our break, it's to remove the, conservation aspect of the whole element. So striking during water shortages.

So it would be a bill for an ordinance amending title 14, article one, Maui County Code, services, repealing Chapter 14.06A and establishing a new Chapter 14.06B relating to the water conservation and control of water use, period. During water shortages, is already engaged, this particular bill will be active at all times and not just during water shortages. So clarification of that.

Okay. Excuse me, Chair.

Please.

I believe the title that you were wanting to address was the chapter title as opposed to the bill title. So that

Could you state The

chapter title, I believe that you are wanting to remove the phrase and control of water use during water shortage so that the title of chapter fourteen oh six b would simply be water conservation.

Department? That works? Okay. Mr. Roe?

Key chair. Okay. So is the body the body okay with that? Yep. K. So it was motion amendment was made was approved by Member Palton, seconded by Member Hodges. Okay. All in favor?

Oh, She has more.

I have a few amendments.

Please. Okay. Member Palton?

Okay. For my first amendment Excuse me, chair.

Apologies for the interruption. Was that a motion to amend the bill's title?

To substitute the ASF.

So there was already a motion made to substitute the bill with the proposed city one. And then I believe the chair was looking for a motion to amend the title of the chapter to read water conservation.

Correct.

So moved.

Okay. So moved by Member Rollins Fernandez, seconded by Member Hodges. So we pass this and then do another amendment. Okay. All in favor of the amendment? Aye. Aye.

Okay. Chair, that's, seven ayes, zero nos. Member Lee excused. Member Palton?

Sure. I a little bit played around with the wording, but on section two, fourteen point o one point o four o number six, which is, near the top. I think it's on page two. Number six, I'd like to amend it to say xeriscaping with water efficient native canoe or noninvasive plants? Sure.

Section two fourteen point o one point o four o number six to amend that to say xeriscaping with water efficient native canoe or noninvasive plants.

Second.

Okay. Motion made by member Palton. With commas.

Me, Chair.

Motion made

by Chair,

apologies. Is Member Palton referring to the definition of water efficient? Yes. Number six under the definition of water efficient. So you would use water efficient within the definition of water efficient?

Yeah. Because it's already there. I just moved it to the front. Because it otherwise, the way it says is xeriscaping with native plants or water efficient plants. And

I see. Thank you. Not

all native plants are water efficient, and neither are all canoe plants. And then we don't want people to use invasive plants. So I was playing around with it

in

my

head. Chair, can I ask a quick question? During discussion, you were going to, maybe add where appropriate. Are you still planning on doing that? Or

I thought it would be, subjective Okay. To it was gonna be appropriate native plants, but then I was like, appropriate native plants are water efficient native plants.

Okay. Sounds good. Thank you. K.

So number six would read, xeriscaping with water efficient native, canoe, or non invasive plants. Thank you.

Okay. So that's your motion.

That's my motion. Is there a second?

Is there a second?

Oh, no. Johnny seconded it. Sorry. My bad.

Second. Okay. I seconded it. Okay.

Any discussion? Any comments from the department?

We support.

Okay. All in favor, raise your hand. Aye.

Chair, I'm seeing seven ayes, zero nos, one excused. Chair Lee, motion passes. So now you are back to the motion to

second

year. And move then, we'll to the of O. Four O and create a new section D that would say new commercial and multi family residential properties served by public or private water systems are encouraged where appropriate to be built with sub metering.

So,

moved by Member Palton and seconded by Member And, basically

I was gonna require it, but, encouraged, I think, will pass.

I I concur.

Can I ask a clarifying question on

that, please?

Are you going to request in unit? Because those are the ones that cheaper those are cheaper as discussed or the the landscaping one that apparently run upwards of, like, $50,000?

The in unit ones. In unit. Because I I feel like the education part applies to it if people know individually how much they would be charged Okay. Then they would be incentivized to conserve.

Okay. Then before you say sub metering, did you wanna add in unit sub metering?

I'd love to add that as a friendly amendment. Okay.

Chair, staff has new commercial I'm sorry, amending section fourteen oh six b point zero four zero to add a new subsection D to read new commercial and multifamily residential properties served by public or private water systems are encouraged where appropriate to be built within unit submetering?

Yes. Okay. Any further discussion before we vote? All in favor, raise your hand and say aye.

Chair, seven ayes, zero nos, one excused. Motion passes. Chair Lee is excused. So, you are now back to the motion to substitute as amended.

Okay. Member Bolton.

Moving on to section 14.06B. 060A one through three. I'd like to add to the 10%, 20%, and 30% to say 10% of current use, 20% of current use, 30% of current use to clarify for Mr. Mr. Goody.

See the department's in concurrence with that. So, that's your motion. Is there a second? Seconded by Member Sugimura. Any discussion? Seeing none. All in favor, raise your hand. Say aye. Aye.

Chair, seven ayes, zero nos, one excused. Chair Lee, motion passes. Back to the motion to substitute as amended.

Okay. Well, I will get to you, Member Johnson. Member Palton.

I move to amend Section 14.06B. 07O to say Section A, sorry. A notice of water shortage declaration must be in a media posted in a media of general circulation on the county's website and to the extent possible other available public media in the county once a week once each week for as long so on and so forth. Instead of newspaper, just media.

Okay. Any comments from the attorneys? Does that work?

Mr. Rule? My only comment, and I believe Member Bolton did address that, if we remove the term published and we just posted in media, I think that helps us because when we use the term published, if we don't specify what published means, then we refer back to the HRS, which has different requirements. But if we don't use the term published, I think we're fine.

I'm on that roll.

Yeah. Do I have a second?

Oh, chair.

Member Rollins Fernandez?

Oh, second, and then I have a question.

Question. Continue. Okay.

I'll hold the chair. I heard a media. I think I think media is plural. So it would be a medium or media without an a,

if I heard that correctly. Just grammar. And I could be wrong because English is hard.

How's a medium? Do you guys want medium or media? I'm hoping. Either one. Media. Media. Post it in media. Okay. Final answer.

Comments from the attorneys before we proceed, If that's fine with you. Okay. So we have a first motion by Member Palton. We had a second by Member Wallace Mendez. So, in favor? Raise your hand and say aye if there's no discussion.

Chairs, seven ayes, zero nos, one excused. Chair Lee, motion passes. Back to the motion to substitute as amended.

Chair. Staff would just ask, corporation counsel the second sentence of fourteen oh six b o seven zero a does still have the word published. Are you okay with that?

I'd like to change it to posted. Will be posted at least seven calendar days before the water shortage declaration takes effect. If we can friendly amend it amend that, that would be cool.

No objections.

Basically having c match a. Any further discussion? Posted.

Sorry. I was looking in the the other part. I guess I moved to replace everywhere it says published here with posted. Second.

Second.

Okay. Chair is pausing for confirmation from the attorneys and the powers that be. If that's an agreement and no further discussion, I'll take a vote. Okay. All in favor, raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

Chair, motion passes. Seven ayes, zero nos, one excused. Chair Lee

we're going be

publication do in a newspaper of general circulation. So I'm wondering if, Member Palton wants to also potentially do an amendment to that based on her thoughts on the previous amendment.

Yes. I'd like to, replay a move to replace everywhere in this bill where it says published in a newspaper of general circulation in the county to say posted in media of general circulation in the county.

Okay. Motion made by member Palton and seconded by member O'Hodgins to have this read clarify that everywhere where it says published in it, it's gonna say posted in media. Okay. If no further discussion, all those in favor, raise your hand and say aye. Aye.