Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

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Welcome everybody to the um March 17, 2026 Camden County Board of Commissioners meeting. We want to open the uh meeting with a invocation by Commissioner Goodman and followed by the pledge of allegiance. Let us stand and pray. Gentlemen, please remove your covers. Let us pray. Our Father and our God in heaven, we come to thee in prayer. And Father, we know there's strife in this world. We ask your divine intervention. We ask for safety for everyone concerned. We ask for safety for our men and women who stand in harm's way. We also pray for those who are in in danger because of their government.

[cough] Please move hearts and keep them safe even though they're our supposed enemy. Father, we ask for for wisdom as we make decisions here tonight. We pray for intervention for those who are bereaveved and suffering. And all of these things we ask in thy name. Amen. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Roll call. Cody,

all commissioners are present. Okay. Do we have any amendments to the agenda? Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the agenda as presented. Okay, we move to adoption of the agenda. Um, we have a motion. We have a second. Second. All in favor? Okay. Now, we're going to move to the approval of the minutes for the March 3rd regular meeting and public hearing. I assume everybody's uh read and reviewed. Um, do we have a motion to approve? Make a motion to approve the minutes of the last meeting.

I'll second. We have a motion in a second. All in favor? Motion carries. Now we'll move on to our first presentation from the KY County Joint Development Authority. James

trying to beat Martin's time from last week. That was a quick meeting. It was quick and dirty, right? Is that Is that good? Yes.

Okay. All right. All right. So, um, thanks for having me this evening. I'm James Coughlin with the Camden County Joint Development Authority and it is time for our quarterly update. Uh, sorry we waited till almost the end of the quarter, but uh, couldn't couldn't make the schedule work earlier. I'm going to turn and look at this, but I will turn back and speak to the All right. So, just want to go over Can I turn this? There we go. Um, just going to go over some recent activity and we'll go uh project by project just since the first of the year and uh feel free to ask questions. So, um, with the old mill site, um, everybody knows that we had to take, uh, Jacobe Development to court, um, after they filed bankruptcy when we tried to foreclose on them last year for not making payments. Um, we took them to court and, uh, got the property back. And I I shouldn't use the phrase back because we never had it. Um, it never belonged to us. It's never belonged to a public entity before until now. Uh the judge granted us the property on January 13th and on January 14th uh we put out an RFP looking for a master developer. Um with all RFPs, anybody who's who's done these requests for proposals know that there's some pretty hard uh timelines associated with them. Um the question and answer period ended on March 5th. We got those published. Um the pre-bid visits were um last Friday and and yesterday. Um the bid period closes at the end of this month. We'll do an initial review of those bids the next day. Um and then we'll make a recommendation to our larger board at our at our April meeting, which is April 9th. Um after that, we'll select the top two uh biders and schedule site visits and and interviews with them. and uh we'll make a selection at our at our May meeting. If anybody's curious about looking at at

that RFP, what it what it looks like, what we've asked uh developers for, you can go to our website at launchcamden.com, scroll all the way down to the bottom of the first page, and there's a section that's called bidding opportunities and you can take a look at that. Um other related tasks, I just figured I'd include this uh because it's just things you don't think of since, you know, we've never owned that property. Uh we've never had to have things like access agreements and insurance and we worked out agreements with the city of St. Mary's so their police and their public works uh can access the property. We had to change all the locks. Um it was surprising how many people in Camden County had keys to that property. Um there there's probably some people right now there may be people in this room who had a handshake agreement with somebody to get out there on that property. If that's you, um, and you go out there and see that the lock you used to use is no longer there and we've we've cut it off and replaced it, um, call the office and we'll, you know, go over what access you need to the property and why. And, uh, if it's appropriate, we'll we'll have an access agreement done with you.

Yeah. Who owns the Yeah. Thank you, Jay. Who owns the landfills and the salt marsh?

Right. Yeah. Yeah, good point. So, um, the landfill and the salt marsh still belong to Jacobe Development. The reason for that, when we made the loan to Jacobe Development, we had to choose what we wanted to take as collateral, right? And we took the the vast majority of the property as collateral. We did not take the the landfills or the salt marsh as collateral. Therefore, when we took back our collateral um after he filed bankruptcy and we took him to court, we did not take the landfills and the salt marsh, those still belong to him. So, we're actually working on subdividing those from the remainder of the property now and creating an access agreement off of Point Peter Road. So, he will have an easement to potentially access those landfills. Um to be honest with you, I don't even know if he realizes he owns them. Um, but he does own those and he's the one responsible for keeping up with, you know, annual uh registration with DNR, with EPD. Those have to be inspected. You've got to file the the reports. He had not done that. Um, the only time that was done was the very first year uh that he entered into this agreement with us back in 2021. He hasn't done it since. He's on DNR uh EPD's naughty list for not keeping up with that. and I've already had a conversation with them and they they have the ability to enforce that, but it's a little hard when you're dealing with somebody that's not going to pay his bills anyway. So, um the state has funds uh that they can use if they need to to go out there and do the the checks on the landfill, but they they'd rather he do it.

Bottom line is the landfill is not our responsibility. That's correct. That is not the county's responsibility or or JDA's responsibility or St. Mary's. They're separately platted. That's what we're doing right now. We just had Jeff Foster working with the city of St. Mary's um survey that to subdivide it. Um and it'll be a separate plat with access agree access easement.

All right. Uh the Coastal Georgia Commerce Park. Um some exciting news here. And you know, again, this is the property on the west side of Highway 17. Easiest way to think about it is taking Harriet Bluff Road west uh till you hit 17 and looking directly across the street. It's that property belonging to to Rayineer uh that's across the street there. Um several different funding sources. Splast, which we really appreciate being included in that this year. That fund those funds are specifically allocated for the access road. um the revenue bond that we issue that can be used for the access road, the water, the sewer, the rail crossing, the RSDI grant, the rural site development initiative grant from the state of Georgia for 2 million. Uh we were really proud to get that. Only two counties in the state were approved for that. Um we were one of them and that can only be used for for the road. And then the seed grant, which is the state economic infrastructure development grant, federal money that flows down through the state and is distributed. That's one million to help with the water and the sewer. Um because each of those uh specific funding sources has a different purpose that it's allowed to be spent on. We had to set up four different accounts for those. And I mean it it's down to even the checks that we use at the office have different colors. So we don't ever mix those up. there can't be any intermingling of those funds or paying for the wrong thing out of the wrong fund. So, we're we're very careful with that. Um, we just did get the G the draft Gant chart today. It's it's a massive uh document that outlines what steps uh happen each each uh month along the way. Uh we should have the infrastructure in place by the last quarter of 2027, first quarter of 2028. Right now, uh, the engineers are working on the design and engineering for the road coming in off Highway 17, the

improvements to be made at Highway 17 and Harriet Bluff Road and the rail crossing. Uh, that's right there as well. So, um, that's happening now and the next step will be once that design is done to go to DOT for for permitting and then we can get started. Any questions about that one? Um, the Georgia Sports Park. This is really more of an update on this on the activity that's been going on. We're not on a day-to-day basis involved with this. Um the developer has funded the initial engineering for the improvements to be made on May Creek Road. Um the water sewer design and all of that. So that's happening right now. As a matter of fact, we've got a meeting Thursday. Um, Commissioner Cheek has is kind enough to volunteer his time to kind of sit in on those meetings and put on his civil engineering hat and uh kind of help us think through that process. Um, and the next step will be to take the development agreement to the Kingsland City Council and then to the JDA board. That should uh come before us uh come before Kingsland City Council in April and most likely the JDA board in May. Um, Westinghouse St. Marriage.

One question on the on the previous slide. Let's make clear that the developer is paying for all these soft costs. We're not dipping into the $10 million supply. That's right. That's right. The developer that was a precondition. He had to agree to the legal the engineering, the design. He's hired those those engineers and he's paying for that. And then uh when it comes time to putting pipe in the ground, that's that's when splice gets spent. Yep. Thanks.

Yeah. Thank you. I remember you were adamant about that. Um, okay. Westinghouse, St. Mary's. Everybody's familiar with the old bank plant property on on Highway 40. Uh, that was purchased late last year by Westinghouse. A lot of people think, and I did too, Westinghouse, I thought they went out of business years ago. Um, it's one of those situations where a company gets to a certain point and they sell naming rights. Um, Westinghouse exists as a company. It's not the Westinghouse that we remember as children that made washing machines and all kinds of different things, but they do um produce a line of uh home uh outdoor appliances or I don't know if appliances is the right word, outdoor equipment, pressure washers, generators, things like that. Um that's what they make. There is also another division of Westinghouse that is not the same company, but again they've sold the naming rights that deals with um nuclear reactors, large things that get used in defense projects, energy projects. That is not this Westinghouse. This Westinghouse is just like I said um pressure washers, generators, small outdoor equipment. So anyway, but they're um they've made some major improvements to the building already. If you drive by, you can see it looks much better. They've replaced all the outdoor, excuse me, on the exterior uh siding. Uh they've put a fresh coat of paint on. They've cleaned out they drained and cleaned out that fountain. I wasn't a big fan of keeping the the structure above the fountain, but the owner really likes it, so he wanted to keep that. So, that's that's up to him. They're adding truck bays on both the east and west sides of the building where the rail uh came into the building. For those of you that don't know, there were rail spurs that came into the building on both sides. Uh they're eliminating the rail spurs and replacing those with with truck bays. Um fire suppression was a big deal. Um as you might imagine, that building was built in the 60s. Uh there haven't been very many upgrades over the years to it. So fire suppression needed to be updated

quite a bit. They had to put quite a bit of money into that, put a new roof on it. Um so that that that has been uh major work. The agreement we're working on with the city of St. Aries um will be to reduce the the tax impact immediate tax impact of the improvements being made to the building so that the company is not punished for coming in and doubling the value of of the building. Um for for example the building's on on the tax roles now let's just say it's $500,000. He comes in and turns it into a million dollar. He won't be taxed at a million dollars right off the bat. will continue to tax him at half of that value for the first several years and then gradually get him up to a full tax value. So, it stays revenue neutral for the city and the county and the school board, but um allows him to hit that full tax value over time.

How many is se several years? I'm sorry. How many years is several years? I think we said three years at 50% and then he goes to um 60% 70% 80% until he's at full full tax value. Yeah. And about how many jobs are projected to be brought in from Westing?

40 jobs in the first three years. He's already hired um a plant manager and some some crew. You probably saw the advertisement on Facebook. They're doing a job fair this week. Um the owner's in town now. Um it'll be a while I think before, and when I say a while, it'll probably be at least a year before they're up at full capacity because there's just so many improvements to still be made to the interior of the building. um things like restrooms that have to be brought up to ADA compliance that weren't done in the 60s, break rooms, um electrical got to be rewired, sprinkler systems, all of that. Life safety issues have been addressed um so that they can be in the building operating, but a lot of interior things still need to be still need to be fixed. Um CJUS, there's an Italian company. Um actually it's just Ce when they're in Italy, but um we are now Ce US. Um, this building is located in the Camden County Industrial Park. They make water products, uh, pumps and filters and valves and things like that for all kinds of different uses, everything from small aquariums to to large industrial applications. Um, this building will be used for light assembly and distribution throughout the southeast. Um, right now the only other US operation they have is down in West Palm Beach, and they're thinking about moving this um, making this their headquarters. They've already acquired the piece of land next to them so they can expand. Um we're doing a ribbon cutting for them on the 24th at 9:00 am if anybody like to come. Um this is in uh Commissioner Turner's district, so we made sure to invite him and we're hoping he'll come and say a few kind words. Um this group will hire 20 employees, so not a major employer, but um you know, still a good thing to have in the community. And on that size lot, um it's about the best thing we could we could have on there. Um the Lucas Center for Entrepreneurship, most of you know we're not in the same building we used to be

in. We're now at 162 North Gross Road in Kingsland, which is right across from the Resiliency Center. Um we're leasing that space from Georgia's Own Credit Union. And it has a great area in the middle of the building that we wondered, what are we going to do with this? um it just really didn't fit for a whole lot of other uses. The the previous tenant when they left, they left left a bunch of cubicles and things in the building. So, we reached out for the to the Lucas Center for Entrepreneurship, which is a a program that used to be housed within the College of Coastal Georgia. Uh they're now out of of that relationship. U but they're based in Brunswick and they are coming down here uh weekly to teach entrepreneurship classes. They do one called idea boot camp where a business uh can go in or someone can go in with a business plan, excuse me, with a business idea and leave with a business plan and they do another one called Accelerate for people who are already in business. They go through an 8-week intensive course on how to raise their business to the next level. Um and and so they've been doing very well and they've I've been surprised at how many people have been showing up for those classes. And then also the UG Small Business Development Center is using our office and we host them uh for meetings uh just as needed. They don't they don't come on a presscheduled basis. Um our annual audit um is just like y'all do at the end of our fiscal year in June. We start immediately assembling all the stuff for the auditors and getting that all to them. They finally finished our audit um late last year and did the report out to our board last month. um clean audit um a good strong cash cash position, solid internal controls. Um so that then rolls up as a a subunit of your audit rolls under y'all. So u and we use the same company Malden and Jenkins that the county does. In fact, now Kingsland uses them and St. Mary's does as well. Um so we are proud of that. Um and that's the same the same result we've had out of all our other

audits as well. Um, the only thing I will add is this next year our audit is going to be much more complicated, right? With all these different funding sources and all these different accounts, um, it'll be a little more complicated and take longer, so we'll probably have to pay more for it, but still worth doing. Um, this is our our business plan. Just a peek at it. I'll come back Q2 to to present uh our business plan once it's approved by our board. Um, but this is what we're going to focus on. Obviously, redevelopment of that Gilman property or the North River property. You'll notice I'm no longer calling it Cumberland Inlet. That was a name that the previous developer had given to it. That name doesn't belong to us. So, we refer to it as the Gilman property or North River property. Um, phase one of the Coastal Georgia Commerce Park. That's obviously a big priority for us this year. Um, moving that Georgia Florida Sports Park a little further down the line. Um the entrepreneurship program will continue and then uh continuing our collaboration with the cities and the county on projects as needed. Um but that budget and business plan uh my board has approved a draft of that and it'll be approved at our May meeting. Uh so then when I come back in Q2 for another quarterly presentation, I'll I'll bring the whole thing for you. Something I wanted to address. Um, I just kind of wanted to to bring up uh because we we had some I I think some concern maybe after our February meeting and I just I I got a few phone calls from different commissioners and people in the community. So, I just wanted to kind of throw this out there. Um, at our February meeting, I was not in attendance. I had to call in. I was at at the house sick and I I didn't know who was in the rooms. I was just speaking on on speaker phone, right? I couldn't see. And I was letting people know, you know, what our project list was. One of the projects I mentioned, I verbally told the board, this was a project we were contacted about. We did

all the, you know, pre-calculations and determined we could not pursue this project. We didn't have the water sewer capacity to pursue it. Um, somehow that turned into this this idea that we were pursuing some project that was going to be detrimental to the county and and use up all of our resources and and whatnot. Nothing could be further from the truth. that project came in. This is how we get projects, okay? When when they come to us, it's a giant Excel spreadsheet. And this is just a little piece that I snipped out to to have a visual. It's a giant Excel spreadsheet that asks a million questions. One thing we don't know is what kind of company it is. It comes under a code name and we start to discern by answering the questions possibly what it might be. um when when we look at the water demand, when we look at the sewer demand, when we look at the power demand, we we start to discern I I wonder if if it's this, I wonder if it's that. But we we don't know. We're just answering the questions. Do we have a road? How big is the road? What's the weight capacity of the road? How big is the water line? How big is the sewer line? How many acres? How many wetlands? How many uplands? Um you know, how far from the interstate, etc. And we just answer those questions on down the line. We send it in. If we're if we make the first cut, then they call us and say, "All right, um, project so and so liked what you submitted in your in your uh response to their request for information. We'd like to tell you more about the project." Um, that particular project that that caused so much concern, we never got another call about because I let the state know that we just we couldn't compete for it. Um, so I'll I'll call your attention to that last uh bullet point there. Um when the governor awarded us the rural site development initiative grant, the RSDI grant, um representatives from the Department of Community Affairs and Department of Community, excuse me, uh Georgia Department of Economic Development came down to meet with us. We had to sign all the papers and all that good stuff. One of the

preconditions was that we would not locate a data center in the Coastal Georgia Commerce Park. You cannot have a data center in any property that's receiving state funds from the RSDI grant. So any speculation that we might be pursuing a data center in the Coastal Georgia Commerce Park would immediately make us ineligible for the state funds that we've received and are already in our bank account. So let's I want to go ahead and nip that in the bud right now so there's no chatter that makes it up to Atlanta and I get a nasty phone call from somebody who thinks we're pursuing a data center. We're not. Um, but I did mention to several people that called me that doesn't mean that private property owners who are marketing their property for industrial use aren't going to occasionally say, "Hey, I think my property would be great for this use or that use." Or consultants representing a certain type of project won't reach out to them and say, "Hey, we found your property on a Google search and we think it might be great for X." and they'll come to us um to see if if they can do it. When it comes to data centers, the way that works, if anyone calls us and says, "Hey, I'm trying to figure out if my property can support a data center. Some guy called me and wants to put a data center on my property." The first thing we do is refer them to Georgia Power. And if they're serious, if the if the person looking for a location for a data center is serious, they enter into a very long and very expensive ve v vetting process with Georgia Power. And when I say very expensive, if they make it through the whole thing, they would have paid well over a million dollars in vetting process. They have to make deposits. They as they go through the process, they have to pay more and more money. Um, and it's so Georgia Power knows they're serious. Um because Georgia Power would be considering a massive capital outlay. We do not have the capital, excuse me, the energy infrastructure in place anywhere in Camden County that could support a data

center um at at this time. So in order to serve something like that would be a massive investment on the part of Georgia Power, Oki Finoi EMC. So they vet these projects very carefully. We have had several private property owners call us with these requests and say, "Hey, I've been contacted." we send them to Georgia Power. None of them have made it through the vetting process. Um it's just whether it be the cost or the the site or whatever it is. Um none of them have made it through. So again, just want to clear that up. We're not pursuing a data center. Um we can't put a data center in the property that we're developing. Um and if private owners reach out to us, we send them to Georgia Power. So any questions about anybody any of that? All right.

Well, I did have I did have one [laughter] question. Sorry. You pointed us to launchcamden.com and so I I see the RFP um posting. My question is if people wanted to find out more information about um the financial health of the JDA or the JDA's financials, where would that be located? Also there. Um should be a news section. Um, and we our audits are always posted and then our meeting minutes and that kind of thing are posted well as well. I might need to follow up with you later because I'm having a little trouble finding that. Okay. All right. Yeah. But all of our annual audits are there. Um, and our, like I say, our our meeting minutes, agendas, what have you. All right. Thank you. Yep.

Thanks, James. Any other questions from the board? one the uh the uh paper mill is any of that Brownsville?

It is. Um and thanks for the opportunity to answer this because I've seen some misinformation on Facebook about this. It is not a super fun site. Um there is an area of the property that we put into the brownfield program. The Georgia Brownfield program protects subsequent owners from liability associated with whatever the previous owner did, right? So, we put it into the Georgia Brownfield program so that heaven forbid something happen out there and somebody gets sick or or whatever and we're out there working on the property um that we don't and as a result, Camden County, St. Mary's doesn't in acquire any of the liability associated with what the previous industrial owner did. Yeah. All right. Any other questions? Seeing none, we're going to move forward to our public comment section. These are um public comments related to agenda items only. Um you're limited to three minutes. And what we're going to ask tonight is if Melissa Tman from the park service would go first. Good evening. Thank you for uh hosting us here tonight. Um my name is Melissa Trenchek. I'm the superintendent of Cumberland Island National Seashore and Fort Frederria National Monument uh over on St. Simon's Island. It is uh an honor to be here tonight with uh the commissioners uh and the esteemed colleagues that uh share their love for Cumberland Island National Seashore. So I will try to keep this to three minutes. I think a lot of it uh has been

seen in the past. Uh what I am here tonight uh to request of the Camden County Commissioners is support for two land exchanges that we're moving forward with. We're looking to move forward with uh on Cumberland Island National Seashore. These are the same they're the same land exchanges that uh we did a civic engagement period on and talked to the public about and the public had an opportunity to comment back in September of 2024. Everything is pretty much the same and moving on the same track that we addressed in 2024. The only difference is that in the meantime, uh, we've had a change of administration and we've got a new Secretary of Interior. The Secretary of Interior has, um, issued Secretar's Order 3442. Okay. Secretary Order 3442 states that in order to move forward with any land exchanges um or acquisitions of property that we need to seek approval and support from the governor and from the county commissioners. Right. I've already got that letter of support from the governor and I'm here tonight seeking your approval. I've got a lot of slides that I can click through. I'm not very good at standing still and talking, huh?

Real quick. Yeah. Go ahead, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I move to put the agenda item for Miss Melissa up to the presentations above public comment so that she's not bound by the three minutes and we can actually receive the information. So, your motion is what? Is to move agenda item number two up into the presentation slot on the agenda ahead of public comments so that Miss Melissa isn't bound by the three minutes. She has a lot of information to get through and a lot of slides and I believe us as well as the public deserve to hear the information. Well, we do have I think the the goal is to let her have more time than three minutes. Correct.

I just I saw the timer going down and she said she was going to try to keep it. I just wanted to make sure that we were I think I as chairman can give her more time in this case. So, let's just keep it going like it is. I'll give her more time. Well, there's a a first and a second. So, I believe we need to vote on on doing that now. We have a first and a second. Well, there are several public comments um regarding this item. So, I believe it'd be important to hear all of the information that would be presented, which is what my motion is is trying to do. I mean, if you guys would like to vote against that, that's fine. But how long is it? I don't think anybody's against giving her more time because she has a presentation. It's about seven minutes.

And I think a lot of it will address a lot of the public comments that may it may have been received. Okay. Since we have a motion and a second on the table, we need to Do you need me to clarify the motion? You can resend your motion. I correct. He's going to let her go. Yeah. I'm I'm let finish the presentation. All right. I'll move it off the table. Thank you. Okay. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Disregard the red light. Yeah, I'll turn that off. Nervous. I'll make it green for you.

And thank you for your patience with my cough drop. Uh I seem to be allergic to almost everything in Georgia. So, thanks. Just make sure that I'm on the right slides here. And Mr. Scott has helped me with the clicker. So, thank you, Mr. Scott. Uh so, just a little bit of background on Cumberland Island National Sea. I know you're all incredible fans of the beautiful place uh that I have the honor of supporting and preserving. Uh it established in 1972, the largest and southernmost of Georgia's barrier islands. It's low. It's uh about a mile to three miles off of the main um the mainland. It's about 17 and a half miles long. It's approximately a half mile to three miles wide at its widest. Uh and it encompasses 36,000 plus acres. The enabling legislation of Cumberland Island National Seashore states that in order to provide for public outdoor recreation use and enjoyment of certain significant shorelands and waters of the United States and the and to preserve related scenic, scientific, and historical values. There is established in the state of Georgia the Cumberland Island National Seashore. A little bit of the seashore background. It's designated because of its outstanding natural and recreational and historic values. It contains nearly 10,000 acres of designated wilderness. It's serviced by ferry only. There's no road to the main from the mainland. You have you get a ferry or you take a private boat um and dock at the island. And the and the majority of the island is is primarily federally owned. There's about a thousand acres that are currently still in other ownership. The majority of that is private ownership. fe simple private ownership. The rest is the state of Georgia uh and other federal entities. So, how did we get to this land exchange? A lot of you have been on this journey with us for for many, many, many years. I've only been on this journey

for about two years. So, for those of you that are new to the journey, I will go through a little bit of the background. Right. Camden County has uh the zoning on Cumberland Island primarily as conservation preservation andor agricultural forestry. Right. In 2020 in 2016, private land owners submitted a request for hardship variance to the to that zoning because there were restrictions to that zoning and how much development could happen. Some meetings happened, some some advocates uh stepped up and the county in uh tabled the motion to change the zoning uh and encouraged the National Park Service to work with those private land owners to come up with something that was uh a win-win, right? And what we've come up with and what we've presented in in the original 2020 2024 civic engagement that we rolled out with uh was an opportunity to exchange these private lands. Again, they're private lands held in fe simple that would be exchanged to help us maintain a a thorough corridor through the park to preserve the natural and cultural resources to improve the manageability. Right? We've got uh lands that are held in private ownership that bisect the entire island. So, if you're driving up the main road, you're going to encounter private land. You're trespassing. If you're walking on uh the Parallel Trail, which is the main north south avenue from um up and down the island, you're crossing private land. You're trespassing. So, what we're trying to do through this land exchange is to get some of that private land out of private land that is bicting the island, and

I'll show you some maps here in a minute, and move it all to uh the west side of the island. Oh, I haven't been clicking. You guys didn't tell me I wasn't clicking. Turning my pages. [snorts] So, this is what we're trying to get to. We're trying to establish um like I said, a continuity of connectivity up and down the shore uh up and down the the shore seashore. safeguard critical habitat for federally federally protected species. Uh we're also looking to facilitate designated wilderness. You'll see the next slide or one of the next slides uh shows a piece of property that we're looking to acquire uh that is u within designated wilderness. Um but it cannot be designated wilderness because it's a private inholding and therefore it's only proposed wilderness. If it were to convert to federal ownership, it would immediately revert to designated wilderness, which has significant protections. Uh, and it and what we're looking to do is prevent li prevent and or limit private development on or near significant uh, cultural and natural resources. Right, I'm going to click I'm click on both. All right. So, we're looking to uh acquire these lands through land exchange, right? This is our primary vehicle. Land exchange is the primary vehicle. Oh, one too many. Thanks. [snorts] They would be conveyed uh at a one:1 ratio of value. And generally the lands would be uh the lands that would be converted into private land ownership um would have a significant conservation easement assigned to them.

This is land exchange number one. Um you'll see this the piece up in the up in the top uh the hashed the hashed little square uh up near the top of the of the map uh is the 10acres piece of um what would convert to wilderness. So it's currently uh only proposed wilderness. If that were to become uh park service property it would convert to f um federally designated uh design uh there's a word for it designated wilderness. uh congre congressionally designated wilderness, right? And the old river trail currently cuts through that. Correct. It absolutely does.

Uh and the piece of property that would be exchanged would be the smaller piece uh that's uh hashtagged at the at the bottom of the map. [snorts] Uh and that is near water resources. There's already utilities there. There's already roads there. We've done um archaeological survey. We know exactly uh what we're looking to protect in that area. uh and it would have a conservation easement assigned to it. Land exchange 2. Uh the pink on this map designates um historic districts. So the two pink areas um are the uh Stafford Plantation Historic District and the lower one is the Grayfield Historic District. [snorts] So this area, this uh property that we're looking at is up near the Stafford Plantation. There's a lot of significant cultural resources there that we would love to be able uh to interpret for our visitors. Uh tells an incredible story of of occupation on the island uh back 150 years. So uh really great stories to be interpreted there for visitors. And um similarly, we would move that private land that now spans all the way across the island, intersects the parallel trail, intersects the the main road. Again, if you're hiking on that parallel trail and you cross through there, you would be trespassing. So, we're trying to avoid anybody trespassing, getting confused, uh land owners being upset, uh by people wandering into their front yard and asking where's lunch. Um so, it happens. same same location uh water access, utility access, uh and a road. Again, we've uh surveyed the cultural resources. We know what's there. Uh and there would be conservation easement. Here's where we're at. So, like I said, in 2024, we did um some civic engagement.

The public had an opportunity to comment. Uh we heard what the public said. We heard how passionate the public is about the incredible resources and what it is that um that we all strive to protect and preserve uh at this great um this great resource that we all have access to. We heard those comments. We understand what those comments are. We share a lot of the same uh concerns about protecting the resources and we could not proceed with this land exchange if it were not a win-win for the government. Right? We believe that by moving uh land to the west side of the island, by in increasing the corridor that is uninterrupted by private land, gives our visitors a much easier access to the recreation that they um so seek and that they would not be um concerned about trespassing or wandering off off the beaten path and and in ending up in somebody's front yard. So, the preliminary land exchange agreements, we have been negotiating those back and forth with these private land owners. A lot of what I know people want to see has been happening behind closed doors because they are private exchanges. They are private land owners with private rights that we are negotiating with. Once we have executed these private um these preliminary land exchange agreements which are non-binding then that will become part of a record that is more public. Right? So the next stage uh after we get state and county approval to move to the next stage. This is just merely an administrative task uh and it keeps us on track of where we've been going all along. The next phase will be an environmental assessment. When we release the environmental assessment, the public will have an opportunity to provide comment once again, a 30-day public comment period,

uh, where they will have all of the information about that they're seeking, where how many acres are we talking about, what are these conservation easements look like, what are the restrictions on the land owners to build, how big can their dwellings be, how many bu dwellings should there be? These types of restrictions will all be discussed in uh the environmental assessment. Uh once we finish the environmental assessment, if we if we continue to go down that path, uh then there's a whole lot more due diligence that is title appraisals and uh notice to congression, you know, a federal register notice at at some point. the the the [sighs] Ways and Means, not the Ways and Means, the the budget, the appropriations appropriations committee and Congress uh will weigh in on this. Um so, uh we're at we've been talking about this for many, many years. Uh the due diligence moving forward to an end goal of getting these lands transferred from private to public land and vice versa is still at least two years out. But we can't move forward with any of that process until we pass this task which is county approval uh to move forward. So with that, I thank you all for your time, the extra time to go through this, and I will answer any questions now or whenever you want to answer commissioner questions.

Thank you, ma'am. I've got one thing. This is basically just the start because this doesn't have anything to do with the property that started all this. Correct. Thank you. Um, well, so let me ask you, will we be able to take questions at agenda item two after we've heard from the public? Sounds good. I do have some questions for you, but I'm I'm going let the public have their say. Fantastic. So, would you like me to sit down? Yes, please. All right. Thank you. Would you like to sit down? [laughter] Hey, thank you, ma'am. Um, anybody else? I do have several people registered. Would you like me to call their names now?

Yes, please. All right. Mr. Steve Winkle, would you like to speak?

Thank you. Steve Winkl. I live in Heritz Bluff. I would like to request upfront about uh seven or eight minutes to respond to the 15 minutes that was given to the National Park Service that was not expected. Um, the first comment I want to make is that we have had a total of 4 days worth of notice that this letter would be required of the county. I don't believe that the county commissioners can make a decision regarding this based on the presentation that was just made or the presentation that's been presented. I believe that what you will see is that this project that is being requested now that you're being asked to sign is just a preliminary project. the two easiest of the ones that they want to request. And it is not clear to the public or to the county commission where the Lumar project which initiated all of this currently stands. We do not know. The public after 10 years does not know why the county commission never made a decision on the Lumar property, why they turned it over to the park service, and why the Lumar project is partially done, and whether signing this letter obligates Camden County to move forward with things that have never yet been presented. And so I am being presented now with a yellow light to rush me even though I have

rebuttal information. Mr. Winkl, you can take the time you need. Thank you. And I don't intend to take 15 minutes unless you have questions. [snorts] I sent a letter to y'all yesterday. I'm hoping everyone had a chance to read it. One of the things I did not send to you, but I brought tonight is a rebuttal document to a slide that was just shown to you. It's this green one. The park service claims that this project will establish continuity and connectivity of parkland to expand wildlife corridors and increase resource management efficiency. [snorts]

That's assuming that the corridors are already blocked. There is no fencing that prevents animals from moving across the property that is being exchanged. The road bisects the property north and south where there is a far lesser used road that bisects the properties east and west. And so what they're establishing here is a cause to do this rather than a purpose that is necessary. The second item down, safeguarding critical habitat for federally protected species such as sea turtles and nesting shoreirds. this property that is being given by the park service uh given to the park service. Okay. Is not threatened except by Georgia DNR driver's licenses which are given to C uh island residents and their extended families to drive on the beach. The public is not allowed to drive on the beach. And sea turtles don't live in the forest, nor do nesting shoreirds live in the forest. And so this is just another madeup justification that doesn't withstand a scientific test. facilitating additional designation of wilderness in property exchange one. That property

is already in named as being in a wilderness committed ownership and it's only 10 acres. The remaining property in number two is not likely to be qualified as wilderness. Nor has the NPS accomplished as of yesterday after 1,180 days. They have not accomplished acquiring the Nature Conservancy property that Representative Buddy Carter got $8.7 million from Congress to purchase one over three years ago. That's 1,181 days ago today. I went to county records yesterday and explored county records for several hours and there was no mention of that property exchanging hands. It was still in the Nature Conservancy, not in the National Park Service. And the excuse that I have heard is that well, the National Park Service is busy. But they have rushed this property exchange that's before you tonight, which started after Buddy Carter awarded the $8.7 million to purchase the Nature Conservancy property, which will be wilderness property and does qualify as wilderness property. and it is north. In fact, it is the immediate property north of the one that

is in exchange number two. So, what we're hearing here is kind of a blending of the truth and fiction. And then the final one is preventing or limiting private development on or near significant natural cultural and natural resources. That was from the slide. And the fact is is that the Camden County Commission did not stop the Cumberland Lumar zoning variances for 10 years. You don't have any authority to actually stop what the park service starts. This project is an outgrowth of that. And the dock which was put on that property that should never been approved by a county commission years ago has precipitated these downstream events which were not discussed or anticipated. But we were told tonight the park service has been working on for many years. Now many I don't know whether that's one year, 10 years or 50 years. I do know the park has existed for 54 years and the National Park Service has never completed the first wilderness management plan for the park which is not a new order but an order that's been in place since the beginning of the wilderness the 1980s. And so the park seems to be in a big rush here to make land trade deals with private property owners when they can't close the deals they already got the money for from Congress and they can't seem to provide even a good map

because the two properties that were shown that are going to be gained are adjacent to each other and they provide a dock that is not available to the property owner that's providing the main source of the properties. It provides the opportunity to enhance the value of their property so that they could develop it. I would not be so angry about all of this if the National Park Service said, "We're going to get a 100-year prohibition for any kind of commercial development of any sort on the property we acquire. That would be fine. Those people would disappear. The trade would never happen. The only purpose in this trade is to take two widely separated properties, combine them into one larger property that has a road to the main road and an existing National Park Service dock. And I don't know that that was actually discussed tonight. But that's what the park service is giving. Now, the dock's not being used. It's on a tributary of on the west side of the island. But we ought to know everything. And you shouldn't have to depend on me exceeding my three minutes to bring in the one map that the National Park Service has listed online that is unreadable that shows the properties in their actual surveyed format that is of legal record. and you can't read it because it was a huge map that was reduced down to size

and digitally it doesn't blow back up. And I've got copies for each of you to look at it if you want to look at it. Okay? But the fact of the matter is is that you can't read it and you can try blowing it up with whatever tools you have. Now, I know we can go to an office somewhere and view it, but we've had four days. I'm going to hand you a handful of them.

We've had a total of four days and y'all had 15 minutes of exposure plus whatever you might have been told earlier. And you haven't had the opportunity to hear the other side of why this is not good. So why is this not good? Because what are you obligating yourself to? Just like the Lumar dock that was approved by a superintendent who is no longer here. Just like most superintendants move through Cumberland Island very quickly because it is an extremely difficult park to manage. And so I would not want to be the superintendent of this park if I were in the park system because it it's tough and you've got too many overlords including the politicians. And if this county doesn't realize that we gave up all of the tax value that or not all but 98% of the tax value potential of Cumberland Island in order to allow the park service to not tell us the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then we don't have a good partner here that we should allow to move forward. for it because you shouldn't be waiting until tonight before you're asked to sign a letter that you didn't even get the whole truth about. So, I'm thinking, and this didn't start with Superintendent Trenic, I believe that she has the best intentions and wants to do the right thing, just as I believe most of you do, too. But I think that one of the problems is

that three minute timer in which when you go to make many of your decisions detached from the actual presentation later in the meeting of the letter completely detached from that you ask someone to give a threeinut presentation in rebuttal to what you intend to do. It's bad public policy. It is not the transparency that you claim to want. It is not giving the public responsibility its fair due. You're not treating your constituents right. And I'm lucky, frankly, because because you gave her almost 15 minutes to speak. I'm lucky because previously I've been escorted from this podium after three minutes for speaking too long by a sheriff's deputy. And that is an intimidation that the public shouldn't have to endure from its elected officials. Thank you very much. Do not sign that tonight. We don't know enough to sign it. You don't know enough to sign it. Okay, Katie. Katie, who's next? Miss Katherine. Katherine Sailor. Oh, what can I say that wasn't just said? I'm going to give it my best. Um, my name is Dr. Katherine Sailor from Defenders of Wildlife and I appreciate the time to address the chair commissioners. We are asking respectfully and kindly that you table the proposed vote on this letter

supporting the NPS land exchange for a few reasons. Um there's three primary reasons. First, the action is premature. As mentioned, we don't have a full environmental review. The completed environmental review um will be required for the exchanges, but you simply don't have enough information here tonight. The public doesn't. You as commissioners simply don't have that information available to you. [gasps] Second, there's incomplete information about the exchange. We don't know a the ecological value of the park lands proposed for conveyance. We don't know the terms of conservation easements. So, it was mentioned um and I agree that the service is trying to do the right thing, but we don't know how and when variances will be granted for the conservation easements. You know, that's what gets us here is those variants are asked to be granted. Next, how the exchanges would affect future developments and land use on the island and the home cumulative, excuse me, impacts of development on the parcel. So, cumulatively, what precisely does that look like? We really don't have any of that information available to us here this evening. So, in conclusion, I ask to please table the vote. It'll simply allow the park service, members of the public, and others to com to be able to engage transparently in the process. I understand there was some public engagement um a few years ago back in 2024, but we still have a lot of unanswered questions and tableabling the vote would allow the service to complete its environmental review and completely provide the necessary information for you kind folks here this evening. So, with that, I conclude my remarks. Thank you. Thank you,

Mr. Ben Goff. I'm Ben Goff from Heritage Bluff and I'm addressing the agenda item JDA update. I want to talk about the difference in a service organization and a sales organization. County government is a service organization and results of actions are based on citizens satisfaction and input. The joint development authority is a sales organization at best and results of actions are based on what? I think we can all agree that the Jacksonville Jaguars are a service organization as well and results of actions are based on those that are interested in football. Mr. Deshan Khan, the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars, when dissatisfied with his team's performance, [snorts] took the necessary steps to replace the quarterback, then the coach, and when performance still didn't improve, he replaced the general manager. Is it time to look for performance improvements with the JDA up to and including replacing the general manager and the board? What say you? Thanks for the opportunity.

Thank you.

Does anybody else would like to speak to the board? Yes, ma'am. Though Cesum St. Mary's I'm not sure this is directly to the board or not, but this is reference to um the JDA update on the Gilman paper mill contract or whatever they're doing with that and the um remodeling or the renovation of that area. I just wanted to remind JDA that North River has many people that live there and this mill is right in the back door of a lot of people. Have anybody did a um impact study of what this would do with the residents of North River? I haven't heard never heard that and this is not my first time asking about this question. When when um Cody had it, I asked this question. Did anybody do an impact study on the what would happen with the um the community there at Gilman? Because you know a lot of you know where that meal was and one of the main roads to that development to Gilman was right straight through the community there in North River. So I have not heard anything about this anything about uh uh what would happen with their property the value of the property anything. But I'm sure they would like to know what impact is this new development that you're trying to to um have out here on this property will

have on the community of North River. And that's what I would like to see. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Anybody else? [clears throat]

I'm John Wjek. Uh Clarks Bluff. I want you to know I didn't have any Mountain Dew today. Uh I don't understand about Jacobe owning a brownfield area, but the JDA has no responsibility. Who is responsible for this parcel? Sounds like to me like Union Carba, you know, they they mess up an area and who's going to be responsible for it? it was going to be Camden County or I don't know who'd want to build next to a brownfield. I agree with Mr. Winkle and the doctor. Mr. Winkle had a lot of a lot of information, much more than what was presented by the park service. I suggest that you hold off and table the decision to sign any paperwork because usually these land swaps are financial benefit to the people that want to do this land swap. The value of this property I don't know but sure as all get out if you do this land swap the people that own that property are going to own it. They're going to complain about their property value and go to board of equalization and complain that it's overpriced. As far as saving the birds and the turtles, that sound like a good gimmick. I don't know. It's to me it sounds political. I don't see any benefit in this land swap. Okay. So, uh, I'd suggest that you put it off and get more information and get a clear eye about what's taking place. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else? Yes, ma'am. Come on up.

Hi, I'm Chrissy Mayor from St. Aries [clears throat] and about the Cumberland uh island swap. Uh this property was bought by taxpayers with the promise from the National Park Service that it would be wild and turned wilder. So basically in giving away this property, this public property that was bought by taxpayers, in some cases you would be giving money back. You would be giving property back to people you already bought the property from, whether you're doing a swap or not. But for the other people that donated the property or sold the property in good faith that this would be a wild property preserved, kept in nature and that they did all of that in good faith. The National Park Service, no excuse, no harmed, but is not acting in good faith. If you go on social media right now, the overwhelming public does not support this. The overwhelming outcry from the public, the taxpayers who purchased this do not support this. And it's fine when you look at it and you say, "Oh, this is what we're getting." But what are you giving up? What you are giving up are pieces of properties with roads, utilities, and water access. giving up property with roads, utilities, and water access actually makes it more easy to develop where you have some property that yeah, the National Park Service might gain, but maybe it's not buildable. But you swap all this for buildable property, you know, that is that is for the National Park Service that is not a living by what you promised. You promised, you know, that it would remain natural and wild and

protect the island. But by doing this swap, you're not protecting the island. You're, you know, benefiting a couple of private owners a against what the public wants. I mean, I I would encourage any of y'all before you make a decision just to look out on social media and read the responses from the public, from the taxpayers who are trying so hard to protect this. It's one of the only island islands left that's in its natural wild preserved pristine nature. You know, if you give that away, if inch by inch by inch you give it away, eventually you know what is adding another house, what is adding another road, what is doing this until you look back in a couple years and you look back what you gave up and you can't get it back. So I would just encourage to maybe listen to the public and the taxpayers that bought this do not want to give it away. So, I mean, I would just and I I I agree with everybody else. I think it's being rushed and I I think that once you give this away, you cannot get it back. And, you know, that's why I'm here. I I hope to preserve it and I hope that y'all will, you know, listen to what the public wants. Thank you.

Thank you, ma'am. Anybody else? Okay, seeing none, we're going to move on to the next item, which is planning and development director Cassie Turpin about the CIE.

Good evening, commissioners. I am here tonight to request the adoption of the final 2026 capital improvement element of the comprehensive plan for Camden County by resolution. Uh, the CIE consists of a short-term work program and an impact fee financial report. This final report has been reviewed and approved by the Department of Community Affairs for the reporting year of 2026. Planning and Development staff recommends adoption of the final 2026 CIE that includes the short-term work program and impact fee financial report.

Thank you, ma'am. Um, haven't heard any. Do we have a motion? Make a motion we approve the comprehensive plan. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? No discussion? Call for a vote. All in favor? Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. Moving on to item two, which is a letter of support for National Park Service. Um, having heard much discussion, uh, do we have a motion? Oh, could we ask Miss Melissa some more questions? I have some more questions after

we need to make a a motion, get a second, then we'll open it up for discussion. All right. I move that we allow Miss Melissa to answer questions of the board. That's not really a motion. I make the motion we approve the um letter of support for National Park Service. I'll second you on that. Do we have a motion? Do we have a second? Now we can have discussion.

Awesome. I got some questions. All right, Miss Melissa, if someone is traveling on Stafford Beach Access Road on their way to it looks like the beach on the seaside and that and they and they are confronted by the private property owner that a large part of the property that you're looking to exchange currently sits on, what are the repercussions for that individual that's trespassing? Does a park ranger issue a trespass? Are there are there issues currently taking place out there? I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?

So, some of that private land that MPS is looking to exchange, there's the ste the Stafford beach access road that cuts across the island to the beach, what are the repercussions for someone who trespasses on that private land out there? Are there currently issues? So, currently the landowner uh has an option to stop any and all traffic trafficking across there. he could establish uh whatever boundaries that he chooses to establish, including building a fence if they want. He could build a fence. Um and he has in fact um let me know that he would reach out to Camden County Sheriff's Office and report any and all trespass. And so I'm assuming the same thing would be for the Old River Trail as well. Correct. That is correct.

And you almost have to cut through you have to cut through that property to complete the large portion of that trail. That is correct. Um, so what um what I'm seeing here on the the proposed land that the park service would Would it help if we put it back up

if you could actually? Yeah. For the public as well. I keep hearing that we're giving away land or we're giving away um but really all of this is to enhance the access for the the visitors of the park. So I just I I guess I'm I don't know what I'm missing. I feel like I'm missing something with all of all of the all of the conversation and all of the the comments against this, but all I'm seeing is it's increasing access because that road, those two shaded portions up at the top above the purple, that's private land currently. Correct. Private land since 1899. It has been in private hands.

Visitors that want to enjoy that portion of Cumberland Island have to take, it looks like they have to take that road. That is correct. They're almost always going to be trespassing on private property every single day. Um what is this? If you could expand on the controversy surrounding the dock near this property that's being the dock is not part of the exchange agreement. Okay. The dock is um and I appreciate Mr. Winkl's passion. The dock is actually in proposed wilderness and so the dock has deteriorated. There is no administrative need to repair or replace the dock. The dock will not be replaced. The dock is not part of the land exchange.

I keep hearing that this being this is being rushed. But you actually started on this project. I know not you. Eight years ago personally, eight years ago. So this has been work working on this for a long time. Um now someone mentioned that an environmental review was outstanding. What what is the timeline on getting that?

That is the very next step. And so as soon as we get this administrative task accomplished per secretary order, secretary order 3442 requirement to get state approval from the governor, which I already have, and county approval to move forward. The very next step is the release of an environmental assessment for public review. The timeline on that could be as soon as June. And all of this has to get congressionally approved at the very end. Correct.

These preliminary land exchange agreements are nonbinding. At any time after we do due diligence, due diligence is a big word to say we have to do title searches, we have to do appraisals, we have to do [clears throat] all of the congressional work. At any given time, this could fail. Land owners could pull out. The park service could pull out. The deal might not be what it looks like it's going to be after those appraisals are done. We don't know how many acres will be exchanged because we don't know the value of the land until the appraisals are done. Do you love Cumberland Island? I absolutely love Cumberland Island. Would you like to see anything bad happen to Cumberland Island?

No. I have not dedicated 30 years of service to this um this beautiful country and these beautiful things that I am honored to protect and preserve to see something go wrong. And would you recommend that we approve this letter as well? Absolutely would. Thank you, Mom. I have one question real quick. Um maybe it's a legal question. It can't be answered, but does the park service not have prescriptive rights because that road's been used all these years? Say it. Say it again. Does the park service not have prescriptive rights to use the road that's been used all these years through this private property? Oh, like um there's a word for that. And

yeah, that doesn't exist with government property. No, property. It's private property. I do not have the ability to uh assert imminent domain over that property or say that because I've been using it for 54 years that it is mine. The public law authorizes the park service to condemn the land, the purchase it. forgiving this false choice that we have to sir. Sir, we need to make sure we're directing questions to the board. Sorry. Well, the public comment section's over. You're ask we're asking her questions.

Yes, we're asking her questions. Yes. Not expect you to answer that. I was just That's a question I need to ask, but you not expecting an answer. I do have a follow-up question. We're not tying our hands and committing to something further on down the road by simply let signing a letter of support so you can move forward in the process. Correct. Absolutely not. Okay.

The only thing that the county would have to do over there is um once the the boundaries are surveyed out, we tax the the property appropriately hopefully. And then if they were to do anything over there, our planning and zoning would would take over. And that's just on the private property. And private property rights over there are the same property private property rights we have on the mainland, which is how we got into this whole mess. It sounds like an item has been brought before this board before and it was tabled which kind of stalled progress on this as well and you you've worked further on that. Actually, you went to the private land owners and worked it out amongst yourselves and this is the result of that. Correct.

Correct. I don't believe it would be fair of us to table it again tonight to to stall that progress which is why I think Ben and I are moving to approve this thing. Um I don't have any further questions and I'd actually like to call the question on the vote if we could. I've I've got a I got a question. Now, my understanding is that basically what you guys are going to do is you're going to take over the North End beach side. Am I correct? Ultimately, I mean, not not not in this, but ultimately you guys are going to end up with the north end of Cumberland Island on the beach. Currently, there are two properties that we are currently. Yes.

Right. the other properties continue to be in due negotiations and further environmental um due diligence.

That is the goal. I mean that and my my question is what is the ultimate purpose of doing this? Because it sounds like to me that basically you're going to trade property for this property for this property and they're going to end up on the west side of Cumberland. They're the the ones that that end up there. They're going to end up at the west side of Cumberland. You guys are going to do the same with you're going to end up with the on the north end of Cumberland Island. My question is I know I think our our we can only take what 300 people a day to Cumberland Island. Is that the number? That is the current number. Yes.

Yeah. Is there any chance? I mean, I'm looking at the the shops that are at the waterfront and the the businesses in Camden County as well because they benefit if you increase the amount of people that actually go over there. Is that part of this goal? Absolutely. Separate from this goal. Okay. Could you visually point out exactly which pro I know it's up there, but which properties are going where for for us, please, just to make sure it's clear for everybody in the room. Does this have a pointer? Where' Scott go? Does it have a pointer?

It actually doesn't show up on the screen either when you point out it. So, um, [clears throat] at the top there's the the slashes that look [clears throat] like this above the pink, right? All of that land is private, right? The ones with the roads running through them. Correct. Road running through it. parallel trail running through it that is going to convert to some acreage here and it doesn't impede along that roadway that goes down the island. It's to the west to the west of it to the west of it.

Okay. And so it focuses all of the visitor activities side and allows them 100% connectivity without trespassing the west I'm east side piece of property the one that was going to be a potentially exchange for the 10 acres of proposed wilderness that's on old river could you back the slide just so everyone Mr. That's right. It is congruent to this piece all the way at the tippy top

the other piece was here in question is demolished for the most. So you're call you're consolidating all of this scattered private land that's throughout the park currently and you're consolidating it to one location one location that visitors do not access. Thank you. Can we have a motion on the floor? Would we have further discussion? Discussion, please. Sure.

A couple of things. Madam Superintendent, um I think a gentleman in the audience was trying to point out something uh along the lines of adverse possession as it relates to an established right ofway having existed for a certain number of years uh on private property. Once you allow that, it becomes uh accessible. Uh it would have to be established in a court of law. I am not an attorney, but you cannot simply say that the landowner can all of a sudden withdraw the right of passage on that property without facing a serious legal challenge by president. [clears throat]

We are holding tonight letters from three major environmental groups. The Nature Conservancy, the Southern Environmental Law Center, and the Defender of Wildlife Group, who sent a representative, uh the kind doctor who spoke. We've heard some very very compelling information that absolutely demands more attention to this than simply agreeing to it cart blank tonight. And I employ implore my fellow commissioners to do one of two things. to either cart blank vote no on this proposition or to at a minimum vote to table it for additional public comment and study because madame clerk received 500 in excess of 500 emails opposing making a decision tonight. The public, our constituents, our bosses want more time to think about this and I think they deserve it. I am opposed to the further destruction of Cumberland Island. It's a one-time opportunity for us to protect what we have an obligation as good stewards to protect. If we go forward um after a due consideration, I have no objection to it. But to do it tonight is wrong and and I strongly feel that way. Thank you very much. Thank you. We have a motion on the floor.

What was the motion? Motion to approve. Execute the letter support for National Park Service. All for a vote. All in favor? All opposed? We have two um in favor and three opposed. Okay, moving on to item three. Uh, we have discussed. Hold on. We're still on item two. So, it failed. I would like to u offer an additional motion. Sure.

That we table this until the next meeting because they can't even start the environmental survey until they get a letter of support. And that's what the Southern Environmental Law Center and all these other entities are asking for. But if they can't start that until we It's a long motion. I just say we table this to the next meeting. Well, we already voted

not to approve it. Now, at the next county commissioners meeting, if you want to bring it back up and put it on the agenda for another vote, we can probably do that. But to after a vote's already been taken to want to go ahead and table it because somebody doesn't agree with it, I don't think that's right. Thank you, Ben. No means no. All right. Well, well, I guess there's no more discussion now. If you want to bring it up next meeting, I think that would be appropriate, but to to change the to try and change the vote now is not.

I can accept that. That sounds good. I I don't think this conversation is over though. U there there's a controversy out there.

Okay. Moving on to item three, a discussion regarding the Sweetwater Park. And that's Mr. Goodman's item.

Thank you. I'm going to ask um that Miss Sessions and um Mr. Wilson Wilson, excuse me, Mike, I'm sorry. mental block there. Uh that you you kindly come to the podium and tell us exactly what you would like for us to do tonight because I want to give closure to you. You have a facility that you can do nothing with because of um legal responsibility for it has not been established. We have to make a decision for these good people. Can you can you come please and spend a minute or two telling us exactly ask for what you want and see if we can do it. Shirley Cessums. Again, the objective of this request for for uh Suaba to continue under the county is that we want to continue to provide recreation services in a on a park that has so much of history to the county and that this uh right now we are in a standstill. We can't do anything with the park and we have had I've had about 20 calls asking to rent the park but we cannot rent the park due to the fact that we have no insurance. We don't have anything. We need to find out where we are and what who we fall under. Our objective is to continue our continue under the county which where we had a contract with you all since 1986. And this land which was given to to the black community back in 1959 and when um the uh blacks could not utilize the the other parks. This property was given to us and we developed it and had a park out there. And there's so many history. Mike going to give you a little history of the park, but we need to open up the park

again. And right now, if we don't, it's being vandalized. We was out there yesterday and um couple of days people are going out there tearing down the fence because there's no use. No, they they see that it's not being used. And we want you all to we requesting you all to to uh allow us to continue under you all take over the park again. And there's, you know, we have the um the maintenance part of the park, the electrical part of the park, the supplies and all of that. We gave you a complete breakdown from the last slide of everything. And we also I gave you a copy of the contract that we had and we just asking you all, let's continue this and we need an answer immediately if you don't mind. Now, I'm going let Mike give you a little history of that park because you will be absolutely surprised of the history of that park on Point Peter Road. Okay. So, he's going to do that and um we'll wait for you all vote yes on this.

Yes. All we asking is not to kill a dream. This was a dream by Lily S. Harris. It was given to women in the community. Those women were heads of the churches, mothers of the churches. They put their husbands, all the families, and everything to work. Now, we got labeled as being a black park. It's not that. I worked there for over 40 years. I've got doctors, lawyers. If you read the USA Today, Baseball America, Lynn Busby, Sweetwater family, we we house not only Cameron County, we have ball players, not only baseball, we were a football field also. It's heartbreaking to have your kids come back and say, "What happened to our park?" Now, I'm I'm I'm going to skip history. In 1971, Camden played their high school football games at that park for years. And you wondering why we asking you because we were bamboozled by the city of St. Mary's. I hate if I step on toes, but I'm telling you the truth. I was on the PSA board, the very first one. When we was taken over by the county commissioners, we moved. The destruction came with a bad recreational PSA director. And I don't

think I have to call any names. Everybody know who he is. You took tennis courts that was given by the Gilmans were some of the best lighted tennis courts in South Georgia and took them away. You took a baseball field that you could say Maris Gryom, Vince Coleman, I can name many of them. Tim Reigns, all of them played on that field. Every pro alete from Camden County played on that field. And all we asking is to come back up under your blanket with similar contract that we have now. We we we we live we 500 yards away from St. Mary's Police Department and all the vandalism that's going on out there is they don't care and we just asking you to please don't kill the dream.

All right. Thank Thank you. Let me interrupt you here and try to move this along. As I understand it, madam attorney, we have a question as to ownership of the park.

You are correct, Commissioner Gman. So, um it is correct that the city of St. Mary's did a deed to the Swabra, Inc. back in 1964 granting the Swabber Inc. the park um and to have that land so long as it was being used as a park from the city. Um, there was a lease that was granted by the Swabra, Inc. in 1986. I believe it was a 25-year lease beginning in August 5th, 1986. Um, so that lease expired in 2011. The issue that uh I see for the county specifically is the ownership issue. The Swabra, Inc. as an as a corporation in the state of Georgia has been administratively dissolved since 1986 and is not a validly operating organization in the state. So the ownership of the park is still with Swabber Inc. and I understand y'all's organization to be Sweetwater Branch Swabra which was created in 2025. Um, according to the secretary of state as far as organization, Sweetwater Branch Swabra cannot own this land unless we you have a transfer from the Swabra Inc. that previous corporation and that's a whole separate issue that requires a lot of legal untangling to be quite frank. That that's the issue with the ownership um as I see it right now.

Okay. what can we do to move it forward so that we continue the operation of that park? Um, we need to negotiate with Suabra. Uh, if u Mr. Wilson and Miss Sessiums, if you'd be willing to negotiate and and have transfer of ownership with the understanding that it will continue to exist as a memorial to things that were um trying to be corrected in the past and done out of generosity or whatever. uh in respect to its to its black heritage, but also in respect to the fact that uh we are living in modern times and it's a park that will be available to people of all races. I don't think you have a problem with that. So, can I make a motion that we direct the county attorney to work with representatives of Swabra to resolve ownership difficulties so that we can due to the failure of the city of St. Mary's to step up to the plate as a county, take over that park and continue its operations and protect it from further vandalism.

I don't think so. Just address that motion real Well, you have a second. I I'll speak after. I didn't second. I said I don't think you can do that. Okay. You can't offer legal services.

So, that that is correct. I can't offer legal services. I can just specifically state from my place here what the issues are. um and and strongly suggest that you all speak with a corporate attorney about the issue of the ownership of this land. Um because then I believe that this could be properly brought forward to the board about addressing the lease that exists that we have just been operating with since 2011. I think that that would be the appropriate way to handle this. Um the Sweetwater Branch Sabra has to address the ownership issue with the former Swabra Inc. Corporation. And that's a that's a that's a complex issue that as county the principles of that organization are deceased are they not

all that one and and that one may be able to address the issue but that is beyond the scope of the legal advice that I can provide um or direct I would strongly suggest I stand corrected and understand that thank you all right I I think we've gone as far as we can tonight madam attorney uh correct I don't think that we can take an action on that we can strongly suggest they seek counsel and then it commissioner you could certainly bring this back before the board for to us to and I will certainly do so. So, we'll talk. Okay.

Continuing the continuing the discussion though, I do want to enumerate some challenges um with that park specifically. It's in the city of St. Mary's. It's not owned by the city of St. Mary's and it's also not owned by Camden County. It's owned by Swabra. uh it has been open to the public pri you know it's been made available to the public through the really being maintained by the PSA for a lot of that time so we have government we have taxpayer funded buildings and and facilities out there on that property currently is that correct anybody yes

that is correct and and so the challenge and I believe that's why you brought it tonight is that people still have have for 50 years used this as a space for public recreation. There's publicly funded facilities out there. Um, and right now there's no one there to pay the light bill or cut the grass. Is that correct? So, so what are y'all doing currently? I mean, I know you're saying there's vandalism,

but are are I mean, y'all are ultimately in control of that property? Uh and and with the recreational protection act, Suabra or the owner of that property, as long as they don't charge anything for the public to use it, you can invite the public on and be protected from liability. I think the challenge, as I understand it, is that you guys want to rent out the facility. Is that correct? You got to remember that that facility has been rented out before under the PSA, right? Yes. and also one thing that that the board has to think about is

currently we don't have funding to do much stuff with the parks that we actually own now. Now, if we take this over, what we're doing is asking the unincorporated citizens of the county to pay for this park. Do we ask them to do that for Howard People's Park currently?

Absolutely. Now, this is going back to something I proposed many years ago with the PSA is the county the PSA legislation had a mechanism where you could create a countywide tax district where everybody would be taxed the same to support all these parks. But under the current um buildup of of the PSA and and the cities and the counties taking over their own parks now that's kind of out the window until either that fails and the county takes over everything. That's not going to happen. So there again, you know, they're asking for somebody say in Dover Bluff to pay for a park that they'll probably never go to. Now, I would like to see, you mentioned Howard People's Park. It's in the city limits of Kingsland. I would like to see the county get it up to snuff and give it to to the city of Kingsland. Same thing with with um Lions Club Park here in Woodbmine. or anything else that's within a city limits, let's fix them up and turn them over to the cities. But to ask somebody in Tarboro to pay for a park in St. Mary's, that's kind of a stretch. Now, if you could create a tax district to tax the people in that area to help pay for that park, maybe I could go along with it.

Sweet Sweet Water is used by everybody in this county and surrounding counties. I'm not denying that that everybody that played ball. You got the PSA girls cheerleing out there, right? You got the little PSA cheerleader girls. The little girls cheerleader. PSA. I I worked 29 years for the PSA. The main thing about the park you need to understand is this. The park was given to St. Mary's gave us the park. The park was given to the county. You had the park. It was under you. And then when it was under you, you turned it over to PSA.

And then PSA had their little their issue, I assume. And now whatever happened with the PSA, I'm not totally sure, you start giving the parks back to the city. You're giving the parks back to everybody that that was in was in the city, Kingsland, Woodbine. But the only thing with Suaba, which was under PSA, it was privately owned. That's the only difference. Privately owned, but it was privately owned when it was under PSA also. Well, because of the lease agreement that the county was going to maintain this private land so that it would be open and available to the public recreationally. Have you reached out to the city of St. Mary's and ask them if they'd be willing to to maintain?

We didn't get a good um reception. Put it like that. They they they are like Indian gilvers. You give me your deeds back and we can do something for you. Because you're asking them to maintain. That's that's not legal because my taxpayers dollars is just as good as anybody else's. A lot of taxpayer dollars though aren't, you know, maintaining private land. And I think that's the challenge, right? But we don't have to be a organization that's private that you can't put money into.

It's a it's what is that that that um statute that where you can Well, you can. The only thing I'll look it up. What we need to do to make this short, get with your lawyer and we'll get with her and we'll uh try to come up with how we get this done because if it was done before, I don't see no reason why it can't be done again. Far as the contract is concerned, we're going to do it with a contract. So, I don't understand the problem of doing it again because we did it before. And even though um no we didn't ask to come from under the PSA y'all um PSA whatever

disbanded

disbanded all the parks I assume and put them back into the city and the city of St. Mary saying that Suaba was privately owned. It's the land don't get the business mixed up with the land. It was the land. It's the land that's private. But everybody used that part. It's not. You cannot because taxpayer dollars have funded that park. Everybody's taxpayer dollars just like my taxpayer dollar helped fund the park in um Brown up in Woodbine too. So you can't I don't I I don't get that by saying tax dollars. What it is is is the parks for the county, county owned parks or the county owned money that that was transferred from the county to the PSA was not countywide. It was just the unincorporated citizens paying that county portion. City of Kingsland residents paid their portion. City of Woodbine residents paid their portion. City of St. Mary's paid their portion. So right now the way it is the county gives a little bit of money to the PSA just to run the recreation center. Now the county has to come up with funds to maintain and repair the county owned parks, not the city of St. Mary's parks or anything like that. Now, when it was the PSA, all those entities put money in the same pot and that did all the parks. Now, with this fractured agreement that we've got, it would be unincorporated citizens paying for a park in St. Mary's. I think for us to um to wrap this up real quickly,

we would like to uh request a meeting with your attorney um whomever and let's stop this because this can go on and on and and I know people are getting tired. I'm ready to go myself and let's let's let's just go ahead on and wrap this up and have a meeting and schedule a meeting meeting immediately within the next couple of days so we can discuss this legally what what we can do and what is need to be done and if it come to the bottom line that we can't stay up under you then we'll have another option. Okay. But right now, let's table it and just with just to the extent um of where we are right now,

the the contract that has existed, the lease where the county is a tenant at will right now is with the Swabra, Inc. And so we have to as a threshold issue, y'all need to address the issue between the Swabra Inc. and Sweetwater Branch Swabra. And if we can get that sorted out, then we c then this becomes much easier to deal with. Okay. That that only reason why we had to do that because we tried to I tried to re uh establish that swab of ink and I couldn't and it wouldn't allow me to. Yeah. You've got to speak speak with an attorney about that. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. But anyway, um we'll solve that problem and set up a meeting with you. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And I'll be calling you in the morning. Okay. Let me

Thank you, Miss Sessions. Mr. Wilson, thank you very much. Um Jackie, do you know who? Sorry, Miss Forier. Do you do you know who owns those buildings on the Swabber property? So, the uh the the lease that was done in 1986 said that the purpose of the lease was to place recreational facilities on the premises for the use and benefit of the young citizens of Camden uh of Camden County. So, I believe that the structures may and I don't know what all is on there presently would be owned by the county. Um, so we have so we have public structures at a private park that if not being maintained, they won't be able to access,

right? And and the the the private park was it was deed to a it was from the city to a nonprofit entity, right? Um, for the relevance there and that's and that's I know we're moving along. I just think that's why that's an issue that we can't sleep on because, you know, it is growing season. It's going to get to a point where we've got a we got a challenge we got to address. Thank you, madam attorney. You're welcome. Okay, so moving along. Do we have a motion to adjourn the regular meeting and convene the solid waste authority meeting? So moved, Mr. Chairman.

We have a motion. We have a second. All in favor? Motion carries. Now we move on to reorganization of the solid waste authority. um to pass the gavl. We've passed the gavl. Um calling to start this solid waste authority meeting. I would ask for the nomination of a solid waste authority chair. I'll nominate Mr. Cheek for chair. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? Any opposed? Congratulations, Mr. Cheek.

I'll get the gavvel back. You got the Do we have a motion to elect a vice chair for the Solid Waste Authority? Hey, I nominate Ben Casey. [laughter] I beat you to it, didn't I? I'll second. You did. We have a motion in a second for Mr. Casey. All in favor? Motion carries. Okay, moving on to Solowace Authority agenda amendments. Do we have any amendments to the agenda? No amendments to the agenda. Do we have a motion to adopt the solid waste agenda? I move to adopt the solid waste authority agenda. Second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor?

Moving on to the solid waste authority approval of the minutes from the October 7th, 2025 meeting minutes. Having reviewed the minutes, I assume. Do we have a motion to approve? So move. I'll second that. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Motion carries. Now we move on to the solid waste authority public comment section. Um, anybody in the audience want to speak uh about the items on the solid waste authority agenda.

I'm still John Wjick on Clark's Bluff. Uh, I've had several doctor's appointments down in Jacksonville and I usually go down Highway 17 and it sometimes early in the morning and sometimes I come back by lunch and I've noticed a lot of Nassau County solid waste coming across that blue bridge and apparently they're coming to the landfill. I've also noticed some uh vehicles that do land uh tree cutting stuff like that. Arburist and they have trailers that come across that blue bridge or between Uli and the blue bridge. I see them come across that bridge and leaving going back to Nassau County. Are are we going to run out of real estate because of of Nassau County? I mean, we're taking stuff from Brunswick also, and we're taking stuff from Nassau County. Nassau County is making money off their real estate. I think it's time for them to build them a landfill. So, I don't know how much time we have left by taking everybody else's stuff. It's just something to consider. I just I just seen so much traveling back and forth with the solid waste and it's just a concern that I have. I'm not complaining. I'm just having a concern that we're going to reach a limit pretty soon by taking all these people's stuff. But anyway, thank you for and thank you for allowing people to talk longer than three minutes. Okay. Thank you.

You're quite welcome. You got another minute or two, John, if you want to come back up. I'm running out of air. Anybody [laughter] else? Mr. Winkle.

Steve Winkle. I have been a occasional user of uh both the CND landfill and the solid waste um the garbage landfill. Okay. And I just want to complement the landfill management on the quality of the personnel and the helpfulness of the personnel on site. I have been embarrassed. Now, I know they might be hope looking for tips. Okay, which would be fair because they're providing a good service that I couldn't hire somebody to do anyway. But the fact of the matter is, I've gotten a lot of help, volunteered from the staff there to help me unload or move things or even to fix a flat. [snorts] And so I just want to make sure that people understand when the county does good work, the management should understand that the citizens see that as their job being well done. Thank you.

Thank you, John. You need to take a pat on the back. Anybody else? Okay, seeing none, we're going to move on to the Solid Waste Authority presentation provided by Atlantic Coast Consultants.

Good afternoon. Um, Mr. [clears throat] chairman and board members. Uh in January we held our strategic planning meeting and uh we had a discussion on our landfield tipping fees and you asked that I would bring something uh before the board and uh so we have prepared a uh presentation with some cost analysis uh tipping fees and some tip and fee options uh for your approval this evening. Uh at this time I'm going to go ahead and yield uh to ACC uh so that they uh consulting firm uh to present the uh prepared uh presentation and afterwards uh we will be happy to answer any questions going forward and uh that any questions that you may have. Thank you.

Thank you John. Thank you chairman and commissioners. Um, just as a as a brief update, what we came before you, I think in 2024 and was when we first started looking at cost at the landfill. Um, we came back again in 2025 and then to begin this fiscal year that we're in now, you approved some new rates and those new rates came into effect in July. And now we've had six months of activity at the landfill under this new rate structure. And we wanted to review that and see what the impacts were to those new rates. And I guess backing up a step even further is just a reminder the solid waste authority is an enterprise fund. So they they are creating revenue to sustain themselves and sustaining themselves is about paying for the operations. It's about paying for monitoring all the environmental compliance monitoring points out there. And it's about putting money away to take care of the facility once it's closed. Let's see. Now think so. Okay. All right. So the trends since we did the first study in 2024, the the disposal rates at or the quantities at the m at the MSW landfill, the solid waste landfill are down 11%. The quantities disposed of at the CND

landfill are down 22%. So less materials coming in. Well, what does that mean? uh for for operations cost, your operations costs are pretty much fixed. That's the people and the equipment that it takes to run the facility. So that's going to yield a higher cost per ton when you've got less tons coming in there to spread that cost over. Well, the other thing that commission has done over the last year is engaged us and in designing a vertical expansion of the MSW airspace 2024 those the quantity of that waste to go over the top of the existing footprint wasn't taken into account. So when we when we look at it today and we've done the site suitability study, we've turned that into a state. We think that that's a viable option to vertically expand there. You'll have additional volume that you can use there. So you're able to then have more volume that you can spread that cost over that more tons basically that you can put in there. the cost per ton. And what we're talking about here is cost. We're not talking about what is charged. I'm just talking about what is cost. And the study that we did in 2025, we said the cost at the CND landfill was about 2230 a ton. It's I think because of the lower disposal rates, it's up a little bit, 22.40 a ton or so. The previous cost estimate at the MSW landfill was 3725 a ton and now it's

less than $32 a ton. And that's really about taking the future cost that you got to take care of the facility for 30 years after it's closed and spreading that out over more tons that you're able to put in there with the vertical expansion. So what are you what are you getting in fees at the CND landfill? you're getting a an average of 1935 a ton. Remember I just told you that the current cost was 22.42 a ton. The MSW landfill your average fee is 28.65 a ton. It's close to what your calculated cost is. Another piece of that is is that the curbside collection program um is paying a a reduced rate of disposal fees at the landfill. So based on the analysis that we've done today, what are we recommending to do the CND landfill? I think we we just need to continue to monitor what's what's happening. CND waste. A lot of that varies. What comes into the landfill varies by economic activity that generates CND waste in the community, right? It the stuff that goes into the MSW landfill, the solid waste landfill is pretty standard. It doesn't vary a lot, but CND does vary a lot. So, let's let's continue to monitor what's going on there and seeing what the cost are. We are recommending that you reestablish some asbests rates which were in our previous rate um table out

there in 2024 that went away. We're saying let's let's put those back in and then also have a separate tipping fee for industrial waste [clears throat] for the MSW landfill. One of the things that's different than in 2024 was the county took on a GEFA loan um to pay for the recent cell construction out there. That GEFA loan um just started paying regular payments on. It's a 20-year loan. Um, what we're recommending that you try to do is with the increased volume that you're able to put waste in there, spread the cost over that, what you could accelerate the payoff for that loan to [clears throat] five years, which would reduce your interest cost by eight almost $800,000. So if you're able to accelerate that at the same rates that you've got now on the MSW side, um then then you're able to prepare for the next cell and the next construction project that has to happen in the future instead of spending this down over the next 20 years. The second thing at the MSW landfill is let's try to align all the customers that come in with the current published gate rates. That'll help with getting the average fees up to what the gate rates are. And the last thing is the cost for curbside collection is really not being covered by the $25 right now because

we got a contract that you're paying Meridian almost $21 to collect it and the $4 doesn't really cover the disposal to to cover the disposal cost. We need to look at raising that. The the cost of that is really 28.50. Okay. So, what we the rates that were approved for this fiscal year uh included a um CPI adjustment. Oddly enough, CPI has a line item in there for garbage and trash collection has its own CPI value. And so, that's what was in there to for that. And as published by the feds this past January, that number is 5%. So again, really the action that we're looking for is adjustments on tipping fees and adjustments on curbside collection fees so that we can continue to push the department um towards financial sound footing. the tipping fees shown on this schedule for that are being proposed for next fiscal year. It's hard to see on this one, but the the bold ones are really the ones that are changed beyond what the CPI was. And that's a new rate for asbestous there on a per cubic yard sort

of in the middle there. And then uh the two items down at the bottom, a CND industrial cost and the mattress and box springing per piece cost. The rest of those are exactly the CPI adjustment off of what the commission approved for the current fiscal year. Okay. And the other action item that is being recommended is the curbside collection rate to adjust that. And just as a um you know a gut check of of what your neighbors are charging um versus what is being proposed here. Uh these are MSW gate rates as available through EPD that are um excuse me [clears throat] that are um given to them every year. And so we we got these out of EPD's database. And for the MSW, you're right in the middle there um of of what is happening in this area or in South Georgia. And then for the CND rates, it's it's typical also, you know, we we've got an incount rate and an out ofount rate, and that's what was approved last year. So that's why if you look down at the bottom here, the incounty rate is is really um at the bottom end of this chart, right? The out of county rate is what those customers are paying that are coming from other places. They're paying more. Same thing on the CND side. The incounty

rates um are still some of the lowest uh around. And then the out of county rates are right there towards the median of what we looked at. So that's what I got. Thank you. Any questions from the board?

I have one. Uh it was either Mr. Winkl's point or Mr. Wjack's point that there's a lot of out of town trash coming to our landfill. Um, and then my understanding is, you know, to accelerate the loan payoff, we can take in more trash to pay off the loan faster, but it's also going to fill up faster. Is that correct?

Yeah. I I think the idea of of the loan payoff was was not about taking in more trash. It was about keeping the rates where they are as opposed to lowering them. So you we're designing an expansion of landfill that's going over the existing infrastructure out there. So it's not going to cost you anything other than the permitting of that landfill to construct it. And so that that provides you some really um inexpensive volume to put waste in. And and what we're saying is instead of lowering the rates, we we need keep the rates where they are, increase them by the CPI, and that let's get this loan payoff so we can save the interest and also start preparing for the next cell constructions and the next projects that we talked about in the work session a month or two ago of what they need to be planning for in the future so they don't have to come back to you and get a loan for GIFA and and whatever the the rates they're charging folks coming out from other communities here a pretty fair rate of of what it takes to dispose of that. So they're they're charging them more to help their the finances of the department.

Can I ask you about that? Sure. What what makes up the cost of disposal? So, I know you said there was a short fall. What what what represents the cost of disposal?

So, what what we looked at um in the memo that's in your packet is it's really broken down into into three areas. It's one is operations, right? And so, so that's the the people, the equipment, and the day-to-day what does it take to dispose of trash? Um the other thing is well a third maybe a fourth part of that is the equipment itself. It takes a lot of money in equipment um really expensive equipment to compact the trash, push the trash, cover the trash and and and that's a big piece of it. Another piece of it is the what I call the future obligations. and and the future obligations is when you stop making revenue, when you close the gates, you've got to spend money to put a cover over the whole landfill, a new construction project to put a new liner just like you put up underneath. You're going to put a new liner over the top of it. And then you've got to monitor all the gels, monitor all the groundwater wells, monitor the surface water for the next 30 years. And so you need to recognize that liability and and and put away funds for that before you stop take, you know, before you close your business.

Yes, sir. And and the last piece of that is these cell construction projects, just like the GEA loan you just did, they cost money and and each of those capital projects need to be paid for by the waste that goes in there. And we're doing those projects because we need more space. Correct. But we're filling it up as quickly as we can by bringing in out of county trash. [snorts] So my my my point being is before we raise the curbside collection I know, you know, if you can work the numbers and see if this works. Before we raise the curbside collection rate, could we possibly get that out of county trash into the I believe city of Savannah was at $85 a ton for is because we need our landfill for the people that live here.

No, I I I don't disagree with that. It it is it's a balance, Ryan. And so the balance is is that if you don't take care of anybody else's waste but yours, then your cost per ton is going up. Okay,

that that's the bottom line. And so it's a balance of you want some customers from outside the county to to pay fair fees to go in because you've got a lot of fixed cost out there to operate the landfill. And if you're able to spread that out over more tons, it helps. But I understand what you're saying completely. You don't want to collect every bit of trash from Florida and all of Georgia to come in here. But a little bit is not bad. And you control that by raising the prices on the out of county. So that's what we did in in July of this year. Raise the out of county rate some. Let's see how it affects the overall bottom line of the department. And if if if you continue to raise that rate on out of county, then it it some of that more of that may go away. The 11% decline on MSW or the 22% decline on CND is probably because you raise the rates.

Where are they going? They're going to other landfills that are closer or they're going to Cheshure or they're going staying in Florida. I I don't know. Okay. So, is I guess is there an opportunity to look at rearranging the numbers before we have to actually raise the cost of curbside that can't be offset by out of county in any way? I'm not expecting No, no, no. You I mean right now

I can look at whatever you guys want me to look at, but what I what I saw was is that the contract with Meridian to collect is is collections only, right? So, the disposal fees are not in their contract. And as I understand it, what they're being paid today is $20.50 50 cents a ton or I'm sorry, $20.50 a house. No, it's 25. I get the bill. No, what Meridian is getting paid by by you by the county. The county is paying Meridian,

right? And then within the collections department budget, they pay a tipping fee at the landfill to get rid of the waste. or essentially

and and so all I'm saying is if you look at that cost plus the what it's costing to dispose of that waste at the landfill, the cost is 28.50ish. So the rate can be whatever you want it to be, but just know that the cost of that is 28.50. So, does the state mandate how much money we've set aside for closure? I think they have some rule you have to put aside so much and we're we're covering that with these fees. Correct. That's correct. So, what the state requires you to do, they they require you to have what they call financial assurance,

right? And so, when the audit is done every year, part of that audit is what is the financial assurance? what is the liability of the landfill? And so that's what we factored into these cost in your memo. There is an estimate of what those costs are going to be to close both the MSW landfill and the CND landfill and to take care of them for 30 years. And we hold that money. Say that again. Hold that money or do we have to pay it out to the state?

No, no, no. that it's your responsibility, right? You you as the permit holder, it's your responsibility to close it and to take care of it. So, yeah, the the money that you pay the state is just the 75 cent a ton or whatever that their fee is that goes to them just because they want our money. That that's part of it. Yeah. So, we're getting let's use Nassau for an example. They're coming here because we're more competitive than closer landfills in Nassau County or further south. Yes, sir. We're much we're much lower in cost per ton. Okay.

Much lower cost per ton. So, see, I think there's some room there for us to to raise that to offset the cost to the curbside collection customers. I'm not expecting you to have that answer now, but if you could look at it because it sounds like there's some some wiggle room there. Mr. Mr. Pitman, you sent us an email last week or two weeks ago about the the tonnage that's being brought in from out of county. Yes, sir. Could you remind me the number? It was like six something tons. 6,800 a month. 6,800 tons. Yeah. For the month of December. Yes. Yeah.

So, um, again, I don't expect you to have these numbers because I'm just asking you off the cuff here. What total percent or out of the total percentage, what would you say is out of county? Is it 50%, 40%? It's It's almost It's almost even. I would have to say about 48 50%. 40% being out. 48 48 48 being out of county.

Yes. 50. [clears throat] Yes. 52 somewhere in there. Yeah. It's It's close. It's a 50/50 if you had to the bet on it. It uh it's all it's almost identical. Any other questions, comments? I think um when we we want to vote on this, we probably need to split the two rates. Um do curbside separate from the tipping fees.

Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. If if I may, um I would recommend that we table this tonight. Um table just curbside or table just the curbside rate simply being it was written down as analysis and fee options and it wasn't advertised as uh okay fee increases. So you recommend you just table this and bring it up next time to make a final vote? Yes. Yes. I'll make a motion we table this to the next meeting. I'll second a second.

All in favor? And also at the next meeting we divide it up. Yes. Correct. Y I second that. [laughter] [snorts] Motion carries. Motion carries. All right. Thank y'all. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you. Uh let's go back to the uh reports. Anything on the calendar, Katie? I'm sorry. We're still in the solid waste authority meeting. We need additional comments.

We're at the solid waste public comments. The second one.

Okay. We're sorry. We're at the additional solid waste public comment period. Any public comments, Mr. Winkl? We should be able to get computer spreadsheets of the exact amounts of money and tonnage which is being brought into the county for disposal in the county because people pay for it. We're accounting for the money exactly to the dollar. That's what an audit is all about. The audit should be able to tell us the same process exactly how many tons come from out of the county based on the fees that are charged if not based on the location of the customers that pay for it. And so there's plenty of ways to know exactly the answer to your question and not speculation which is what we hear heard here.

[snorts]

We also are hearing that we should expand our existing landfills vertically. How do we know that 10 and 15 and five years ago that the landfills that we're counting on driving over and putting tons and tons and tons of equipment and people on will support that weight while all of that action is actually happening? And for how long can you count on it staying that way? Considering that landfills are designed to deteriorate over time to rot. That's why you do all the testing is because of the water that flows through them and the stuff that's expelled. So how do we know that 30 feet down there not big air pockets that are forming right now? Not based on stuff that we found dead 10 years ago, but are forming right now that we're going to drive a 30 ton or whatever a bulldozer weighs over or that these big tractor trail rigs are going to drive over that are depending on the integrity of a landfill that has had inspections. done from the surface and measurements taken of water around the perimeter. I think for the most part that comes out of the landfill. I think the idea requires a whole lot more study than you're going to be able to accomplish before the next meeting in two weeks. Thank you. Anybody else? Hearing none, we're going to adjourn the

solid waste meeting and recon reconvene the regular meeting. Do I have a motion? So move second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Motion carries. Now we'll move on to the regular agenda. Uh item number four, Mr. Pitman. We just voted on that, didn't we? It's all we're back in the regular agenda now. So we're back in item. I'll make the motion we table this item till the next meeting. Second. We have a motion in a second to table the item till the next meeting. All in favor? Now we're to the reports. Yes. calendar. Katie.

Um the only change I have is on April 27th advanced in-person voting begins and those times and locations will be announced by the elections and registration office. Okay. Thank you. move on to county administrator comments.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I wanted to remind everyone that April the 9th, we will begin our annual citizens academy here with the county. And I do encourage each and every one of our residents, business owners, and past attendees as well. We welcome everyone to attend this to get more in-depth look in our local government, ask questions, interact with everyone. uh we we as staff look forward to this every year and are excited to meet each and everyone and to show and to tell what we do around the county. So there again, you can go online and apply for this and it begins April the 9th. Thank you.

Thank you. Now we're down to additional public comments. Anybody have any comments, Jamie? Good evening. My name is Janie Everett and I'm I'm from Woodbine. I wanted to let everyone know that HR6559 is at Congress. That's the Congressional um gold medal bill. It actually has a number that you can track online. We're kind of stuck right now. So, we're going to ask all the Vietnam veterans and the uh Gold Star families to um give us some support. Um our online petition is up to 2,618 signatures. So, we're still working the issue and um we're still looking for a home for our current museum. So, and we invite everyone to come by and visit us. Thank you. Thank you. I want to bring to the commissioner's attention that exchange one and exchange twos that were attached to tonight's agenda presented to the public in the agenda tonight do not match the presentations that were made on the screen tonight. The ones that were printed from online to uh presented to the public four days ago, five days ago

state the private acquisition will include existing access to water and existing dock. on both of these the slides we saw existing dock had been removed and so none of us were careful enough to have mentioned that during the presentation. We're polite enough maybe not to mention it. But the fact of the matter is, can we believe anything that we're given when the simplest information that you're supposed to make decisions off of is presented on Friday differently than it is presented tonight. And I understand that things are in flux that the plans might change, but obviously the park service did not provide to this commission. The final plan they needed you to sign off on because what was presented up there tonight was different than what was on the agenda. and none of y'all even caught it or asked about it. And so I'm thinking we're being rushed for a reason. And rushed for a reason might be just because the park service can't handle the complexity of land exchanges or land swaps or they're way ahead of themselves on this one. They can do it right if given enough time and enough oversight. But the fact of the matter is tonight,

had you voted tonight, you would have voted on a misstatement that you presented to the public in your agenda. That's just fair warning because you don't know what's wrong because you're not asking the right people. I spent probably 30 hours combing through documents to be prepared. who on your staff has spent 30 hours to make sure you didn't make fools of yourself signing a document that was different than the one that was in your agenda. Anybody else? Having seen none have a motion to adjurnn.

Motion to adjurnn, Mr. Chairman. Second. Motion to second. All in favor? Motion carries.